streching rail cloth
Cookie
conversations in google.
When you are stretching simonis over the rails, is it possible to get it
stretched properly with no wrinkles and not stretch is so much that you put
dimples in the rubber? And of course also not get wrinkles after the cloth
relaxes?
If I remember correctly someone asked a similar question in here some time
ago and some table mechanics stepped up and said that it's wrong to stretch
it that much and it's possible to not compress the rubber that much and
still not get wrinkles a year down the road in a commercial environment.
thanks
hammerhead...@verizon.net
Championship Tournament. The speed is close if not the same and Championship
outlasts the other brands. The makers even have a money back trial for pool
halls if such is not the case.Vending is one of our sidelines and we can
attest to the cost effectivness of Championship.
You did not say if the rails are standard or bar box. Two entirley
different animals.Because bar box's do not have feather strips and no
folding on side pockets, it is a lot harder to do a really fine job on the
rails with worsted cloth. All worsted is more difficult to stretch - high
density weave, twisted fibres (worsted) and usually more weight (
Championship Tournament - 24oz ).
Assuming you have a home table it is probably rails with feather strips.
They are easier in my opinion to cloth with worsted. The trick is in the
folds. corners that are done by a skilled mechanic have tight folds and no
bunching of cloth under the rail.That is achevied with practice. Side
pockets are folded and some ways are easier than corners. Usual problem is
bunching of heavy cloth under the rail ( not going to happen with a good
mechanic ).
Your other question was how tight to stretch rails. They should not be over
pulled. The cloth is much heavier and worsted stretch's less with age. If
you have pulled it tight enough to deform the rail, it is way too tight.
With age if worsted cloth sags, it probably is dry rotted, installed
improperly or in a very humid enviroment.
Hope my two cents help.
Lucky
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Cookie
mechanic that has done the tables for years claims that in order to install
simonis on the 9ft Brunswick's and not have wrinkles in a couple of months
you have to stretch the rails so tight as to compress the rubber or put
dimples in the rubber where the ball would contact. He claims that over
time when the cloth relaxes the dimples will go away which is true but I
don't think the rails bank 'true' for some time after he puts dimples in the
rubber.
You said you don't deform the rubber when putting 860 on rails? How long to
you guarantee that the rails won't wrinkle? They get recovered between 9-15
months depending...
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Patrick Johnson
> Championship Tournament. The speed is close if not the same [as Simonis]...
Not in my experience. I know immediately when I'm on Championship cloth because
it's noticably slower rolling. Its sliding speed is closer to Simonis, but
still not as good. You have to hit harder to go the same distance. When you
look closely you can see it's coarser.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
PoolTableMech
waves.......you have to get it tight enough, but not so tight that you have the
waves down the rail. I set up a table yesterday that was from Atlanta. And the
rails were like a ripple all the way down. Because they pulled it way to tight.
And as for the dude that said pull it tight and it will go back to
normal(((((((((((he is NUTS!))))))
John W. Pierce
Yeah, that's my experience, also. When we bought our table, I
unfortunately allowed the salesperson to talk me into Championship
Tournament instead of Granito Basalt or Simonis 860. I've now played
on all three relatively recently after their installation, and all
three were done by the same mechanic. I agree with Pat as to it's
rolling speed and coarseness, and I don't think it rolls as true at
slow speeds as either of the others. Oh well.... it'll get replaced in
a year or so, probably with the Granito.
-- John W. Pierce, Chem & Biochem, UC San Diego
j...@ucsd.edu
Todd Shultz
Championship has four or five different types of cloth. Some (Titan) is
slower than slower than 860. However, IMHO their (Tournament) worsted cloth
is every bit as fast as Simonis 860, and their (Mercury Ultra) is nearly as
fast as Simonis 300.
Good Shooting,
Dutch
Todd Shultz
You have a right to your opinion. However, in my experience (using several
different types of cloth on identical tables under nearly identical
conditions) the difference in speed of the cloth between Granito Basalt,
Simonis 860 and Championship "Tour Edition" was not measurable. If any
thing the Championship "Tour Edition" was afaster that the other two. You
may be experiencing a difference in rails, playing environment (Temp or
Humidity) or prehaps it's just a matter of perception.
Good Shooting,
Dutch
ps Before you ask...no I do not work for Championship Billiards...but I do
install a lot of it.
Patrick Johnson
Do they have more than one grade of worsted? If so, then maybe I've only seen
the slower one.
The stuff I've seen quite a bit of in pool halls is worsted (napless), but
coarser and slower rolling than Simonis 860. I know it isn't the conditions,
because I notice the same thing wherever I play on it. I'm certain it's
measurable with the table speed test described below.
I don't have anything against Championship -- it fills a commercial need. I'd
just rather have the reduced effort and greater range of faster cloth.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Here's a description of the cloth speed test. I think it's designed to factor
out the cusion speed. Ron Shepard also describes a test in APAPP, I think (they
may be the same).
= = = = = = = = = = = = =
From Bob Jewett, 12/23/95:
It is possible to measure the speed of cloth. The basic idea is to
measure the equivalent uphill slope that a hard surface would need in
order to slow the ball at the same rate. Shoot a lag shot that doesn't
quite hit the near rail, and measure the time from when the ball hits
the far rail until it stops moving. Square the time (which is measured
in seconds) and for your eight-foot table multiply by 2.3. The result
will be inherent speed of the cloth. The equivalent slope is the
reciprocal of this number. Fast pool cloth (like Simonis 860) is
around 100, fast billiard cloth (like Simonis or Granito) is around
180. If you want to compare different sizes of tables, the multiplier
(2.3 above) scales with the length of the table: 2.0 for 4.5x9 and 1.8
for 5x10.
Be sure to measure in both directions. I play on a billiard table that
is about twice as fast in one direction than the other.
Cloth has a huge effect on the speed of the table.
Bob Jewett
John W. Pierce
> You may be experiencing a difference in rails, playing environment (Temp or
> Humidity) or prehaps it's just a matter of perception.
The temperature and humidity environment certainly differs a great
deal between the other two tables and mine. The others are in eastern
San Diego county - just a little west of Tucson and with a similar
climate. I'm about half a mile from the ocean. That's a big difference
in temperature and humidity, especially since they actually run their
air conditioners. Also, I found out last night that I was wrong about
the same person having done all of the installations, and that could
make a difference.
Also last night, I used Quick Clean for the first time. This made a
noticeable difference in the amount of "wobble" I see in long, pocket
speed shots. It surprised me a whole lot, since I vacuum the thing
thoroughly every week.
billiardsnbagels
cushion, then you don't know what the hell you are doing and you will
never touch one of my tables!
Simonis verses Championship…. Well that's simple, Championship is a
POOR mans Simonis, any one who can't tell should buy the cheep stuff.
Oh also most installers I have dealt with are to lazy so they don't
like to do Simonis because it takes more time and skill that they
don't have, not because it's not the best for the customer. By the way
I like Simonis 760 best as it last longer.
The waves or stretch marks under the rail with Simonis is normal if
you don't us a lot of staples, I don't like to use a lot of staples. I
put them about 1" inch apart, but you do get some stretch marks under
the rail. If you don't mind having to pull staples when you recover,
and don't mind the damage to the underside of the rail when you
recover, you can get rid of most of the stretch marks by putting the
staples very close together.
If you have wrinkles in the corners or loose floppy folds in the
sides, well that's just a matter of being trained correctly. And if
there is a lot of loose felt under the rail, the rail wont sit
correctly, so you need to make sure you trim as close to the staples
as you can with out over trimming about 1/16" inch is good
