Can you verify the SECOND story about Willie Mosconi?
JoeyA
from locals that saw him in "action".
Enjoy:
----------
This story was told by the great Jimmy Reid.
Enjoy and share it-Joey Aguzin -New Orleans, LA
-------------------------------------
Willie Mosconi:
There is no argument about it, no doubt about it, Willie was the greatest
14.1 (straight pool) player of all time...
1964 at the University Bowl in Boca Raton, Fl., this is the first time I had
the opportunity to see this legend - Willie Mosconi play. He was playing
some local a 150 point exhibition match. Willie racked em up, called the
head ball 2 rails in the side, kicked into the end rail and rebounded into
the end ball which banked the head ball 2 rails into the side pocket -
amazing...
Willie then proceeded to run 150 and out, the local player never got an
inning, the crowd applauding and cheering convinced Willie to continue his
run and Willie complied. He ran a total of 226 balls, the most amazing thing
about this run was, Willie never shot a ball in either one of the behind the
headstring corner pockets, it was absolutely beautiful to watch. Willie ran
226 balls in 4 pockets, the way he kept weaving around the balls was really
something to behold, it reminded me of a professional ice skater doing a
beautiful, smooth figure 8, he was oh so smoooooth...
Willie missed the 227th ball which was just a little off angle to the side
pocket, the ball hit the outside point and bounced back toward Willie. This
shot was in the direction of the spectators seated in bleachers that had
been placed there especially for Willie's exhibition. There was a brief
moment of silence, then the crowd began to stand and cheer, but before most
of the spectators had a chance to stand...
Willie, looking like he was fit to be tied, pointed his cue at a young boy
in the stands and said something to this effect - If you can't make that
little brat sit still, you ought to leave him at home. Immediately the crowd
looked at the little boy, who by now had tears in his eyes, then they began
to boo and jeer Willie, the owner of University Bowl tried in vain to
appease the crowd, but they all left, including myself, disappointed, some
were even taunting Willie, calling him names...
Willie had managed to ruin what otherwise would have been a great memorable
experience for everyone. Willie was without a doubt a perfectionist, but he
had a temper that he himself couldn't control - what a shame. The next time
I had the privilege of watching Willie play was at the last tournament of
his career...
1966, Charlie Milliken is holding a world-class straight pool tournament in
Long Beach, CA.. Everyone you could think of was entered, including Willie
who hadn't played in a tournament since 1954, but he still had the gift, man
did he ever...
126 of the 128 man field had been eliminated, two players left in the
finals.
Game = Straight Pool 150 Points
Joe Balsis vs. Willie Mosconi
Referee = Arnie Satin
Play begins, Willie wins the lag - Balsis breaks, and does so perfectly.
They each play a few super safeties jockeying back and forth trying to get a
shot, they both take a couple of scratches during this opening rack, then
Balsis is near the end rail and calls a ball behind the stack that he must
cut backwards, he makes it, and receives a thunderous ovation. Joe (the
butcher) waits for the noise to stop, then proceeds to run balls and finally
misses a difficult break shot, this makes the score Balsis +138 to
Mosconi -2. Joe had run 10 racks, surely Willie would fold...
Like Joe, Willie waits for the well deserved applause and cheering that
Balsis had earned to cease. He then gets up out of his chair, comes to the
table and begins to run balls as smoothly as Fred Astaire could dance. Rack
after rack he runs balls with a confidence, skill, and knowledge of straight
pool that only Willie possessed. Willie makes an unusually difficult break
shot. Now the score is Willie Mosconi 139, Joe Balsis 138, but lo and
behold, the cue ball has frozen to the top of the stack, it looks like
Willie doesn't have a shot, there are 3 balls all in line frozen together on
the right side of the pack with the cueball frozen to the top ball and in
the same line, counting the cue ball this makes it 4 balls in a row all
frozen together. After studying the shot in depth, Willie announces to the
referee (Arnie Satin), that he is going to play the middle ball in the
corner pocket. The crowd is on their feet, he elevates his cue, hits the cue
ball at 10:30 (high left English), and the middle ball splits the wicket.
The crowd starts to go crazy cheering, then Arnie Satin yells foul, Mr.
Mosconi has committed an illegal push. Balsis gets up runs 12 and wins the
match...
Arnie Satin also had the honor of calling out all those players names who
had finished in the money, having them come forth and present them with
their prize money envelope. After completing that. He asked if Willie
Mosconi and Joe Balsis would come up together, well the audience, which
consisted of some of the biggest names in Hollywood, went wild displaying
their appreciation of the quality of pool they had just witnessed. Willie
was on Arnie's right Balsis on Arnie's left...
Arnie began by saying. "And now to Willie Mosconi who played brilliantly" -
that's all he got out, Willie grabbed the 2nd place envelope with his left
hand and hit Arnie with a right sucker punch uppercut, knocking him out
cold! Willie - what a scene, what a temper...
I told you Enjoy. :-)
Joey Aguzin
Office Specialties Company
741 Bonnabel Blvd., Ste. 203
Metairie, LA 70005
504-835-5042
Fax 504-831-9771
jo...@officespecialties.net
Great Search Engine for ad specialties:
http://officespecialties.norwood.com
Bob Jewett
...
> 1966, Charlie Milliken is holding a world-class straight pool tournament in
> Long Beach, CA.. Everyone you could think of was entered, including Willie
> who hadn't played in a tournament since 1954, but he still had the gift, man
> did he ever...
I never heard the Arnie Satin KO story, but I did hear about 1966 that
Willie took his cue to the drapes to protest the condition of the
equipment. I think that the reported tournament was one of Fred
Whalen's southern California events.
I wonder what rule they were playing by for push shots/double hits.
--
Bob Jewett
The Ghosst
style, it's interesting to me to note the similarities between Mosconi
and "The Pearl".
The Ghosst
ghosst.com
JoeyA
It looks like no one can verify that SECOND story about Willie Mosconi
knocking out his opponent after the match was over.
JoeyA
"The Ghosst" <The_G...@email.com> wrote in message
news:aca3ca63.0109...@posting.google.com...
Aunty Dan
been the 1966 "World Invitational" at the House of Champions (Apparently a
converted supermarket, and presumably no longer there) in Burbank,
California - See http://www.billiardsdigest.com/50greatest/2.htm
On the same site there is a page on Joe Balsis that goes into more detail on
the match, including the fact that at one point Mosconi was ahead 87-73, but
that Balsis made a 63 run (Giving him 136, close to the 138 mentioned in
Reid's account) and then 14 and out. However no mention is made of what
happened when Mosconi shot after Balsis reached 136, or of the incident as
the prizes were being handed out.
According to the site this was Mr. Mosconi's last professional tournament.
If Jimmy Reid's story is true it makes me wonder if he quit because he lost
control of his temper, or possibly to avoid the disgrace of being banned
from other tournaments?
Interestingly the site states his last ever public game was "at the Howard
Beach Billiards Club in the spring of 1992, where his exhibition opponent
was a young house pro named Jeanette Lee." Anyone know the details of that
match?
(BTW I think you meant to say Willie Mosconi knocked out the referee, not
his opponent.)
Aunty Dan.
"JoeyA" <jo...@officespecialties.net> wrote in message
news:vV2n7.16603$05.64...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
JoeyA
alleged knockout.
Mea Culpa.
It would be great to know if Willie really did knock out Arnie Satin and if
someone else who saw the match thought it was a push shot or not. God, I
would love to have been there and seen it for myself. Jimmy Reid says the
stories are true but I would love to hear someone else tell what they saw.
Thanks Aunty Dan
JoeyA
"Aunty Dan" <aunt...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kbdn7.105119$A47.56...@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...
Dlud48
happened. He was there. I dont want to give his name as Jimmy may get hot but
he is from that era and a very well known straight pool player who played in
the event. The two squared off but others intervened and there were no punches.
Furthermore he says Jimmy Reid was in Florida at the time and offered the fact
that J reid would have no reason to be at a 17 man straight-pool tournament
that he didnt play..
Gerry McKown
I was chatting with one of the "old guys" where I play who played
Willie in an exhibition, and confirmed his antics. He said Willie was
doing an exhibition for brunswick at a new pool room, and was'nt
playing too well. He missed a couple of balls and started complaining
that the equipment was crap! at a sponsors event no less!!. He said he
would chuck his cue, hollar at people, bitch about the equipment, and
all kinds of junk. Unless he just ran out, then he would be just
fine!. Don't get me wrong I think he's the greatest(one of em anyway),
but damn!, have some class huh!?¿.
lfigueroa
other geniuses and perfectionists.
Let's, for a moment, say you are a living legend. A many times world
champion. Someone who is an odds on gigantic favorite to run a hundred
balls from an open rack. Let's just say you are a genius at what you do, a
prodigy, the best in the world -- maybe the best who ever lived. And you
show up somewhere and the equipment is so bad you look like a chump...
Lou Figueroa
"Gerry McKown" <mis...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:b84f02b8.01092...@posting.google.com...
JoeyA
Thanks,
JoeyA
"Gerry McKown" <mis...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:b84f02b8.01092...@posting.google.com...
> dlu...@aol.com (Dlud48) wrote in message
news:<20010924203642...@mb-fv.aol.com>...
he
> would chuck his cue, hollar at people, bitch about the equipment, and
> all kinds of junk. Unless he just ran out, then he would be just
> fine!. Don't get me wrong I think he's the greatest(one of em anyway),
> but damn!, have some class huh!?ż.
Frank G.
|Let's, for a moment, say you are a living legend. A many times world
|champion. Someone who is an odds on gigantic favorite to run a hundred
|balls from an open rack. Let's just say you are a genius at what you do, a
|prodigy, the best in the world -- maybe the best who ever lived. And you
|show up somewhere and the equipment is so bad you look like a chump...
|
|
--
Frank G Richmond, Va.
Reply to spydermurphy-at-suespammers-dot-org
Spam will be LARTED without so much as a by your leave.
The spamcop address in the header goes to the bit bucket, do not reply to
it.
John Collins
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:Fr_r7.8033$WW.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> There's no denying Willie was temperamental. But perhaps no more so that
> other geniuses and perfectionists.
>
> Let's, for a moment, say you are a living legend. A many times world
> champion. Someone who is an odds on gigantic favorite to run a hundred
> balls from an open rack. Let's just say you are a genius at what you do, a
> prodigy, the best in the world -- maybe the best who ever lived. And
you
> show up somewhere and the equipment is so bad you look like a chump...
>
> Lou Figueroa
Then you show some class and teach the fans who have come to watch you how a
champion overcomes adversity. You explain to them the value of good
equipment and proceed to entertain them with your artistry and mastery of
any conditions.
I have seen Mike Massey perform all over the world on some really terrible
equipment and not once have I ever seen him complian publicy about the
equipment or conditions. He has lamented to me privately a few times about
the conditions and then proceeded to tell me what he had to do to adjust.
After adjusting to the equipment Mike would then give a lights out
performance, including challenge games which ususally left the crowd and the
room owner well satisfied.
A champion of a person is someone who overcomes the situation and rises
above it. With great equipment he can perform effortlessly, with not so
great equipment he can still perform better than 90% of those present at
most exhibitions.
Perhaps Willie should have had the equipment specs he wanted written into
his contract. On the other hand being able to travel the country and get
paid for playing pool isn't that bad a gig. A lot of people have to work
harder for a lot less.
Just my opinion as always,
Peace, Lou.
John
tony mathews
John Collins wrote:
> A champion of a person is someone who overcomes the situation and rises
> above it. With great equipment he can perform effortlessly, with not so
> great equipment he can still perform better than 90% of those present at
> most exhibitions.
"The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is that a warrior sees
everthing as a challenge, while an ordinary man sees everything as either a
blessing or a curse."
Don Juan in Carlos Castaneda's A Separate Peace
Cheers,
Tony
Mike Page
"A Separate Peace" was a novel about some life-changing experiences of a
few New England prep-school kids during WWII. I believe you mean "A
Separate Reality."
--
mike page
fargo
Gerry McKown
Joey,
I guess my post could be about either of them!, but I was talking
about Willie. Honestly the only time I met him was at the grand
opening of a pool room where i live. He was real nice to everyone, and
I have a videeo of my wife beating
him in a rack of 9-ball!.......too cool!. I guess the point here is
even though your the best at something, and under the microscope of
the public, it does'nt make you superhuman. Because someone is in the
limelight does'nt mean they are going to act the way we all expect
them to either?!. All things considered the guy was/is the greatest
IMO......Gerry>>>>>BIG 14.1 fan.
lfigueroa
did the trick shots at the end of his exhibition (and make all of them), as
almost comic relief -- the real stuff was up front. I've seen Mike miss
shot after shot, joking and kidding all the way. Mike just has a very
different skill and temperament than Willie did. It's sort of like
comparing how a Van Cilburn would react to bad equipment vs a Victor Borga.
Lou Figueroa
"John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote in message
news:r32s7.367$%03.1...@news.uswest.net...
> > > but damn!, have some class huh!?ż.
> >
> >
>
>
John Collins
> John, with all due respect to Mike Massey: he's no Willie Mosconi.
Willie
> did the trick shots at the end of his exhibition (and make all of them),
as
> almost comic relief -- the real stuff was up front. I've seen Mike miss
> shot after shot, joking and kidding all the way. Mike just has a very
> different skill and temperament than Willie did. It's sort of like
> comparing how a Van Cilburn would react to bad equipment vs a Victor
Borga.
>
> Lou Figueroa
I definitely agree that Willie was in a class of his own, like Greg Louganis
was in diving. I just don't agree, genius or not, that extraordinary talent
and skill excuses the kind of behavior that Willie supposedly demonstrated.
Earl Strickland is a four time world champion, and a five time US Open
winner, and can be a world class jerk as we all know. Nobody disputes
Earl's talent and it is really great to watch him play when he on. But his
demeanor is sometimes really offensive and that is what is not acceptable
for the fans who pay to watch him.
Anyway that's my answer and I am the farthest thing from an angel in this
department, having thrown a few cues as well - with no world class talent to
show for it.
John
> > > > but damn!, have some class huh!?¿.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
tony mathews
Mike Page wrote:
>
>
> "A Separate Peace" was a novel about some life-changing experiences of a
> few New England prep-school kids during WWII. I believe you mean "A
> Separate Reality."
>
>
That's what I "thought" I typed! I'm really going to have to read what I type from
now on! lol
Tony
WnScout
other geniuses and perfectionists."
I believe it is something of a myth that geniuses and supremely talented people
are more temperamental than the general population. For every Beethoven there
is a Bach, for every Mosconi a Crane or a Varner, for every Bobby Fisher an
Anatoly Karpov. And, I know some really dim-witted individuals who are every
bit as temperamental as a Mosconi or a Strickland. It's just that the talented
individuals who are temperamental stand out more, kind of like the times you
have premonitions about something happening and something like it actually does
happen, versus all the times you forget about where nothing like your
premonition comes to pass.
Not to quibble, but I also think the word 'genius' is much, much overused. I
know there is a common usage that applies to anyone who is supremely talented
at something, but I tend to think that 'genius' should be reserved for those
who are especially mentally gifted in one way or another (this would inlcude,
for example, Bach, Beethoven, Fisher and Karpov, but not Earl Strickland.
Whatever else he is, Strickland ain't no mental giant, and he ain't no genius
in my book).
Bob Jewett
> "There's no denying Willie was temperamental. But perhaps no more so that
> other geniuses and perfectionists."
> I believe it is something of a myth that geniuses and supremely talented people
> are more temperamental than the general population. ...
Two examples that immediately spring to mind from the carom world are
Ceulemans and Blomdahl. I'd say that Ceulemans dominated carom more
than Mosconi did pool, but he is one of the nicest, fun-loving players
you could hope to meet. Blomdahl has a good sense of humor and is eager
to share his knowledge of the game, as evidenced by he excellent
commentary on Accu-stats tapes. I have never, ever seen either of them
abuse a fan or the equipment.
In snooker, Steve Davis seems to be a good example of a gentleman who was
also completely dominant in his prime.
In pool, I'd vote for Caras, Crane, and Butera.
--
Bob Jewett
lfigueroa
Granito, brand new super duper balls, and the tables are even heated.
Willie would play in everything from convention centers, to shopping malls,
to pool halls, to bowling alleys. The conditions and equipment could vary
wildly -- but there was not a single heated table among them. Maybe
Cuelemans and Blomdahl wouldn't be so sanguine, if in the middle of their
runs, someone was screaming after picking up a particularly difficult spare?
I saw Willie play about a half dozen times. He ran at least a hundred each
time. When was the last time you saw Cuelemans or Blomdahl turn to the
crowd, at say five, and ask, "How many of you would like to see a run of
12 -- and do it?
Lou Figueroa
"Bob Jewett" <jew...@sfbilliards.com> wrote in message
news:10016127...@emperor.labs.agilent.com...
Anthony DeAngelo
I think it has as much to do with the activity as anything. You find a
lot of ill-behaved singers, actors, football and baseball players, and
boxers. Come to think of it, a lot of people who live in the US and
make obscene amounts of money are ill-behaved. Hmm...
Robert Rodriguez
<jo...@officespecialties.net> wrote:
>
>Game = Straight Pool 150 Points
>Joe Balsis vs. Willie Mosconi
>Referee = Arnie Satin
>
I played for 5 years at Hollywood Billiards in Hollywood, CA. Arnie
owned the place then. I even worked for him for awhile. He never
mentioned this story.
Last I heard, Arnie passed away shortly after Hollywood Billiards was
closed down due to the earthquake in '89.
Arnie Satin, may you rest in peace. Oh yeah, and you were right about
the food in New York. :)
Robert
Leonardx3
Arnie did I wasn't told. Joe Balsis told me the check didn't clear the bank. He
made the mistake of taking the check home with him instead of cashing it in
California. He didn't tell me if he ever got paid.
Robert Melusky
Robert Melusky
On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 11:12:16 AM UTC-4, JoeyA wrote:
swing...@gmail.com
> Then you show some class and teach the fans who have come to watch you how a
> champion overcomes adversity. You explain to them the value of good
> equipment and proceed to entertain them with your artistry and mastery of
> any conditions.
> I have seen Mike Massey perform all over the world on some really terrible
> equipment and not once have I ever seen him complian publicy about the
> equipment or conditions. He has lamented to me privately a few times about
> the conditions and then proceeded to tell me what he had to do to adjust.
> After adjusting to the equipment Mike would then give a lights out
> performance, including challenge games which ususally left the crowd and the
> room owner well satisfied.