CHIN on CUE, How Important ?
Tommygun
to the extent that my chin is resting on the cue. It;s probably an
inch or two above the cue. I'm happy enough with my sighting from
this level. I've tried sticking my arse out just that bit more to get
my chin on the cue. The view from right down there seems weird to me !
i guess i'm not used to it
Am i limiting my future potential if i don't fix this up now ?
I haven't watched as many pro Pool players as i have pro snooker
players, all the pro snooker players seem to have their chin on the
cue, is it the same for the Pool players ? what about the fat ones ?
Pearl-0
decide whether to line your one eye up above the cue or to line your chin
right above the cue. Buddy hall for example stands very upright while
shooting and it seems to work for him just fine. I also shoot with my chin
a few inches above the cue.
Pearl-0, also in Detroit
"Tommygun" <Tomm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d791f80...@news.iinet.com.au...
sheldoncue
> I think my stance overall is pretty good, i get low down but not quite
> to the extent that my chin is resting on the cue. It;s probably an
> inch or two above the cue. I'm happy enough with my sighting from
> this level.
More important than how low you get is your actual alignment to the shot.
Depending on your body and your comfort level, you find what works best for
you. Some players can play very well almost standing, others like to rest
their cheek on the cue..... There is no perfect stance for everyone. But
there are principles that can be followed that will make things easier and
more natural.
Patrick Johnson
> cue, is it the same for the Pool players ? what about the fat ones ?
If you're really fat, getting a majority of your chins on the cue is good enough.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Mark0
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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tony mathews
Tommygun wrote:
> I haven't watched as many pro Pool players as i have pro snooker
> players, all the pro snooker players seem to have their chin on the
> cue, is it the same for the Pool players ?
Within the last ten years, I've noticed that more and more of the top men
professional pool players are getting down low over their cues. The chin
on the cue, or just slightly above it seems to be the norm, rather than
the exception now. Especially with the younger players.
The main reason that Snooker players put their chin on the cue is not
(imo) actually for sighting reasons (although that does play a part). The
main reason is consistency of head position. If you put your chin right
down onto the cue (and actually touch the cue) then you know that your
head is in the same position each time. When it is above the cue, it is
easy to get lazy and have your head a little to the left or right, or a
little higher, and the resultant view from there might cause the odd miss
or two.
One way to get a low position (but not touching) and still get
consistency, is to get down low over the cue, touch your chin to the cue,
and then lift your head to the height you want. This way you can get a
consistent head position (hopefully).
I'd stress consistency as the primary goal, not an absolute position.
Tony
John Phillips
> Tommygun wrote:
>
> > I haven't watched as many pro Pool players as i have pro snooker
> > players, all the pro snooker players seem to have their chin on the
> > cue, is it the same for the Pool players ?
>
> Within the last ten years, I've noticed that more and more of the top men
> professional pool players are getting down low over their cues. The chin
> on the cue, or just slightly above it seems to be the norm, rather than
> the exception now. Especially with the younger players.
It's worth remembering that some of the US Pool players at this
year's World Pool Championship (notably Earl Strickland) openly said
that after years of using what we'd call "Pool stance", they actually
started to copy the Snooker stance, or more precisely, Steve Davis's
stance, and claimed it was a big improvement. Personally, I like to
keep my chin close to the cue (not touching), although I can't get
used to the square-on stance at all!
Joerg Klein
has any trouble making his shots ;-)
Joerg
"John Phillips" <john_phi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Cookie
Pat
you sure do know how to turn a guys bad day around :)
--
| Steve
| Springfield, Illinois
| www.iplaypool.com
| Remove ~*clothing*~ when replying directly
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dick Moecia
of experience and playing with the same old bad habits. Anyway, I decided to
tinker with my stroke a few years ago. One of the changes I made was to place
my chin over the stick. My game (accuracy) improved immediately and has picked
up ever since.
> It's worth remembering that some of the US Pool players at this
>year's World Pool Championship (notably Earl Strickland) openly said
>that after years of using what we'd call "Pool stance", they actually
>started to copy the Snooker stance, or more precisely, Steve Davis's
>stance, and claimed it was a big improvement. Personally, I like to
>keep my chin close to the cue (not touching), although I can't get
>used to the square-on stance at all!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dick Moecia
www.GCABA.com
Ken Bour
Could you say why you think there has been an improvement? What it is about
the change that has helped you with accuracy? How much improvement have you
noticed? Does it help on all shots or certain ones that were previously
causing you problems?
Ken Bour
"Dick Moecia" <poolhal...@cs.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20020910115001...@mb-ms.news.cs.com...
Dick Moecia
I can't say the 'Chin on Cue' stance will work with everybody, but I can tell
you it has improved my game. I used to miss some very easy shots soley because
I would come up on the shot - a common amateur mistake. With my chin on the
stick, I am reminded every time, especially in my pause before the shot, to
stay down.
Also, I can see tight shots better. I don't spray the object ball as much now,
so I have a greater degree of confidence where the object ball is going in
close quarters (e.g. half a pocket on long shots, etc.).
I read a comment by another poster who said he thinks it also has something to
do with the fact your head and eyes are always in the same position in respect
to the cueball and object ball. I'll also go along with that. I also think it
helps me stay in focus although I don't know why - perhaps because some
distractions in the background are not visible.
I do think there's a couple drawbacks, however. There's a totally different
perspective for positioning purposes. It's not easy to get a feel for where you
want to put the cueball in respect to the rest of the table. Also, it creates
strain on the back and neck. I am 52 years old but I run and stay in shape. I'm
not sure I would be able to get down otherwise.
I hope this answers your question. I can't say how important it is. I'm just a
player. I'll leave that up to Bob and the other experts.
>Subject: Re: CHIN on CUE, How Important ?
>From: "Ken Bour" ken....@verizon.net
>Date: 9/14/02 11:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <WOIg9.6661$s76....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Dick Moecia
www.GCABA.com
tony mathews
Dick Moecia wrote:
> I do think there's a couple drawbacks, however. There's a totally different
> perspective for positioning purposes. It's not easy to get a feel for where you
> want to put the cueball in respect to the rest of the table.
Which is why it is usually recommended to do all thinking regarding position BEFORE
you get down on the shot. That way you can simply get on with the business of
executing the shot at hand, and trusting that you made the right decision.
> Also, it creates
> strain on the back and neck. I am 52 years old but I run and stay in shape. I'm
> not sure I would be able to get down otherwise.
Some players are starting to bend both knees (Strickland is a notable one) to
reduce back and kneck stress. Stretching helps as well.
Another thing that I found when getting your chin right down on the cue is that if
you wear glasses (like I do) you had better get them with extra tall lenses, so
that you don't look over them (or so that the frame doesn't come into view).
Another point that I've made before, is that if your goal is to keep your head
still, and keep your cue in contact with your chin throughout the stroke (both good
goals) then there is no way you can keep your elbow fixed during the stroke.
The elbow MUST drop slightly on the backswing, and on the forward swing or the cue
will whack you on the chin!
Some players will raise their heads slightly on the follow through for this reason.
By my measurements, the lowest possible head position to maintain a fixed elbow is
about 1" above the cue. This means that the cue will be in contact with your chin
on the backswing, and on the follow through, but clear of your chin at the bottom
of the pendulum.
You could find this position by working on the stroke in reverse (a Ron Shepard
idea) with the cue in the follow through position, and your chin touching the cue.
When you bring the cue back to address position (and if your head is stationary)
you will find that the cue will be about an inch below your chin.
It should be noted that all the top Snooker players endeavor to have their chins
touching the cue at address for consistency of head position. Thus most of these
players have developed the slight double elbow drop out of necessity. In fact, the
arm will do this naturally if you let it (the body will move something out of the
way to prevent you from hurting yourself with the chin whack).
Some seem to do the slight head bob thing and keep the elbow fairly still. (cue
moves up and down, and the head follows).
Peter Ebdon (the current w/c) seemed to drop the elbow slightly on the back swing,
but kept it pretty still on the follow through. You could see his head rise
slightly on the follow through in response.
Tony
-god knows what I do right now. Probably a combination of the above.
lfigueroa
important thing -- what's really important, IMO, is getting the same view
each time you set up. Think about one of those old time kinescope arcade
type machines, where you'd put your face up to a viewfinder to watch. For
pool, it's kind of the same thing: you want exactly the same view, or
perspective, each time you shoot, or progress is impossible. If you're
setting up different each time and your view of the cue ball, cue tip, and
object ball are from a different perspective each time, you're really making
it hard on yourself to catalog your shots and correlate causes and effects.
What I think putting your chin of the cue does is make it easier to produce
this consistent view. But I think the downside is that a snooker stance is
not the optimal stance for pool. I think to become really proficient at
this game you need more arm movement than a snooker stance accommodates.
I'm not saying it's not possible, I just don't think it's the best way to go
for most of us.
Lou Figueroa
"tony mathews" <tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D852289...@sympatico.ca...
tony mathews
lfigueroa wrote:
> I'm not sure whether putting your chin on the cue is really the most
> important thing -- what's really important, IMO, is getting the same view
> each time you set up.
Well of course, you'll get no argument from me on that one. The main argument
for "chin on cue" is that it makes it easier to get that same view each time.
> If you're
> setting up different each time and your view of the cue ball, cue tip, and
> object ball are from a different perspective each time, you're really making
> it hard on yourself to catalog your shots and correlate causes and effects.
I agree.
> But I think the downside is that a snooker stance is
> not the optimal stance for pool. I think to become really proficient at
> this game you need more arm movement than a snooker stance accommodates.
> I'm not saying it's not possible, I just don't think it's the best way to go
> for most of us.
I don't know if that's true at all. What shots do you think require more "arm
movement" (other than the break)?
I don't know of any shot that cannot be made with a Snooker stance. And I see
the top snooker players use plenty of speed when they need to. I think this is a
myth.
Tony
-my opinion of course
David Malone
<tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>I don't know of any shot that cannot be made with a Snooker stance.
Hmmn...OK, Tony... I want to see you jump a ball with your chin on the
cue...
David "The Hamster" Malone
Ron Shepard
mal...@ca.ibm.com (David Malone) wrote:
> Hmmn...OK, Tony... I want to see you jump a ball with your chin on the
> cue...
How much would you pay to see such a feat?
$.02 -Ron Shepard <--might do it if the price is right
Patrick Johnson
>>important thing -- what's really important, IMO, is getting the same view
>>each time you set up.
> Well of course, you'll get no argument from me on that one. The main argument
> for "chin on cue" is that it makes it easier to get that same view each time.
I think that's number 2 (along with consistent stance & stroke). The number 1
advantage is that you can aim better from down there (a tradeoff with table
perspective). If you could get your eye on the cue people would shoot that way.
(Like I know somethin'...)
Pat Johnson
Chicago
lfigueroa
saying that I don't think a snooker stance is an optimal one for pool.
Lou Figueroa
"tony mathews" <tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D86526E...@sympatico.ca...
David Malone
<ron-s...@NOSPAM.attbi.com> wrote:
>How much would you pay to see such a feat?
.50c... but you gotta use a regular cue instead of one of them thar
bunjee things...
David "The Hamster" Malone
tony mathews
David Malone wrote:
> >I don't know of any shot that cannot be made with a Snooker stance.
>
> Hmmn...OK, Tony... I want to see you jump a ball with your chin on the
> cue...
Bad example, it can be done David. But I think you are being , uhmm,
Hamsterish on this one!
Tony
-lol!
tony mathews
lfigueroa wrote:
> I think you can execute most shots with many different set ups. I'm just
> saying that I don't think a snooker stance is an optimal one for pool.
Yes I know you are saying that. I'm just not buying the argument (or starting
one, I'm not sure, discuss amongst yourselves).
Tony
-non optimum pool stance....somebody should have told me...
Ed S.
Can't say that I buy the snooker stance is not optimal for pool. I
think the key to a good stance is consistency. If you can't execute
the same stroke everytime you pick up the cue, your stance won't
matter. Utilizing a snooker stance works for some, but not others.
Allison Fisher obviously is able to use it to her advantage to play 9
Ball. (33 WPBA Tour Titles, 3 WPA 9-Ball World Championship Titles, 3
ESPN Ultimate 9-Ball Titles, and 6 WPBA National Championships and
U.S. Open Titles can't be argued with.)
lfigueroa
since
there about two gazillion guys in this country (not to mention overseas)
that could shred her at any game she chooses -- almost all of them using a
pool, stance vice a snooker stance.
Lou Figueroa
"Ed S." <gol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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John Collins
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:dX9i9.25081$1C2.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Well this is completely wrong -- you *can* argue with Allison's success,
> since
> there about two gazillion guys in this country (not to mention overseas)
> that could shred her at any game she chooses -- almost all of them using
a
> pool, stance vice a snooker stance.
>
> Lou Figueroa
You have action. I bet that there are not one hundred Americans who can
beat Allison Fisher at Snooker on a 6x12 British snooker table. You said
she could choose any game she chooses and get shredded.
Not anything against you Lou but I have seen Allison run centuries many
times and there aren't many people in the US who can do that consistently.
John
lfigueroa
pool. To most folks following this thread that would mean games like 9ball,
8ball, 14.1, one pocket, 10ball...
But then, you're not "most folks," is you?
I wouldn't make that statement about Allison and snooker anymore than I
would about Sang Lee on a 3C table.
Lou Figueroa
hates it when
you have to 'splain em
"John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote in message
news:yChi9.2$fc6....@news.uswest.net...
tony mathews
lfigueroa wrote:
> there about two gazillion guys in this country (not to mention overseas)
> that could shred her at any game she chooses -- almost all of them using a
> pool, stance vice a snooker stance.
Good trolling, but I ain't biting today....
Tony
John Collins
> EXCUSE ME, but I thought we were talking about a snooker stance playing
> pool. To most folks following this thread that would mean games like
9ball,
> 8ball, 14.1, one pocket, 10ball...
I still disagree that there are that many palyers that will "shred" Allison
or Karen. It is undeniable that they get out most of the time that they
'should' get out.
>
> But then, you're not "most folks," is you?
Nope. And glad of it. I'll still bet that Allison and Karen are both likely
to take down all but the best players more often than not. Laura Smith
regularly finishes in the top three among Denver's best players and she is
not in Allison/Karen's class. And Denver has some really, really good
players.
>
> I wouldn't make that statement about Allison and snooker anymore than I
> would about Sang Lee on a 3C table.
>
Glad you see it. I am of the opinion that given Allison and Karen's talent
that had they began their pool careers at the same age as their snooker
careers that they would have been just as good as they are now. I also
firmly believe that if Johnny Archer had began a career in Snooker on
snooker tables then he would be one of the top snooker players.
Talent transcends style. There is nothing inherent about the snooker stance
that makes it better than a good 'pool' stance that I have seen.
Consistency requires a solid stance no matter which style is used.
John
tony mathews
John Collins wrote:
> There is nothing inherent about the snooker stance
> that makes it better than a good 'pool' stance that I have seen.
> Consistency requires a solid stance no matter which style is used.
I think that there are a few Snooker coaches that would disagree with that
statement!
Tony
Ken Bour
do. I don't like having to change my approach to the table depending on
where the QB happens to be. I found that, with a 45 degree stance, it is
fine except when the QB is up in the center of the table; then, I have to
get square (move the feet parallel to the table) in order to reach it
comfortably. The snooker stance allows the same position for a wider range
of shots than others I have tried. The other small advantage is that, my
feet rarely come in contact with players sitting in chairs, walls, tables,
or other obstructions. I have seen players with very long stances (front
and rear feet separated by a wide distance) encounter obstacles, in some
venues, due to the amount of extra room they need to spread out.
Other than those observations, I cannot really think of a reason to advocate
it. I used to think that the snooker stance had some effect on the stroking
arm motion (in my case to help eliminate a left-right swerve), but have
since changed my view on that issue.
Ken Bour
"tony mathews" <tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D8AE917...@sympatico.ca...
lfigueroa
Just learn to read, dickhead. Then we wouldn't have to go over every post
you can't comprehend the first time around.
Loser.
Lou Figueroa
"John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote in message
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