To sand or not
Justin H.
sources.
Ray Martin's 99 critical shots in pool says that pool players use 600
grit sandpare on their cue to make it smooth and have a nice finish.
On the other hand, a professional cue repair guy i have talked to says
that one should NEVER use sandpaper of ANY grit, because, one, it can
create "flat spots" if the cue isn't turning, and two, it will raise
the grain which will open up the pores of the wood, allowing water in.
What are all your thoughts on this? I have sanded and finished my old
cue to 2000 grit and it's as smooth as glass, but i believe what this
cue repair guy says because he knows a lot more about it than i do.
In that case, Ray Martin, a BCA hall of famer, is incorrect?
I just bought a new cue and clean it off after every match with some
tissue paper, as the man said. Anything more abrasive than tissue
paper is a no-no.
What do you all do?
Poolplayer
towels in the bathroom and run your cue through them a couple of times and
it'll be really smooth. Two other things you can do is use a piece of
leather or paper bag. Sandpaper'll take your shaft down in diameter.
KP
because my hands are sweaty and greasy. Just take a damp cloth and wipe it
down thats all, and wash your hands like I do all the time. Avoid chalking
your cue in such a way as the chalk gets all over the shaft. Other then that
you should be fine. Even 1200 grit sandpaper is WAYYYYYY to abrasive for a
shaft. Remember when you sand a cue its taking from the whole circumference
and a little sanding here and there will thin out your taper quite a bit,
even with those really fine sandpapers. The sanding will mess up the wood
too. I found that it makes the grain more suseptable to chalk and sweat.
Damp cloth, and an occasional burnish with leather is all thats needed.
Oh yeah and most pros are really abusive on their cues and dont care cause
they get them for free. They also get new cues all the time. I knew a pro
that when his tip got slightly worn viking would just send him a brand new
shaft and forget about replacing the tip at all.
"Justin H. " <jhea...@NOSPAMcentralva.net> wrote in message
news:3ac3e08a....@news.centralva.net...
Kenneth Koo
I have the book. It is nice. Has nice tips.
But I did notice that some statements in the book conflict with current truths
and beliefs.
Do not sand. Burnish with leather instead.
Maybe real professional who are sponsored change thier cues and shafts every
six months, so they do not see the results of such sanding.
Some cue maker did recommend sanding but with the same material that is used
to polish glass !
Jtiche
my hands, got some on the shaft which made it sticky so I wiped it down with
the leather which solved the immediate problem. I buy something called Kleen
Stroke which I think does a great job. Yeah, yeah, I've heard you can buy
rain-x, windex, whatever at a lot cheaper price. I bought a case of Kleen
Stroke which I figure will last me beyond death. I can not imagine sanding a
shaft.
BC
use those, drop them on the floor, and small cloud of dust rises up.
Yikes!!! I occassionaly use a 3M sponge that I got from a local cue
maker, but mostly just wipe the shaft with my trusty blue dish rag.
Patrick Johnson
wood. It'd take a LOT of sanding with the smooth sandpaper you use on
your shaft (I use nothing rougher than 800 or 1000 grit, which does as
much cleaning as sanding). Maybe there's a slight risk that you'll open
the grain or something and get a warp, but I think you might seal the
grain with the fine residue you rub off.
I do it every several weeks or few months, and wipe/burnish with paper or
cloth in between. This has been going on for years, and my Predator
shafts are the same as ever.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Jack Stein
use. Been using it on the same cue for over 4 years with no noticeable
effects. I have a cheap ass cue though, not sure I would use it on a
$n000.00 stick that probably should be in a museum, hermetically sealed
though. Then again, if I were rich enough to blow $n000.000 on a cue, I
probably wouldn't worry about then, either. As far as sanding down the
cue, find an old cheap ass cue with a hard maple shaft, and sand it 24
hours a day with 600 grit, or scotch pad, and see how long it takes to
change the shaft any noticeable amount...
I don't do this every single day though, about once a week, sometimes
twice a week, more often in the summer, and only a few swipes are needed
to spiff up the shaft to silky smooth.
As far as the cue maker goes, he is not totally incorrect, just way over
board on the actual effects on a shaft.
Having said all that though, I know plenty of guys that use nothing on
their cues but paper towels, dollar bills, stuff like that, and their
shafts are silky smooth, so their is no real reason to do what I do,
other than shear laziness with a little antagonism thrown in.
Like I said, I have a cheap cue, primarily because I don't need to waste
much energy worrying about protecting a museum piece. I'm a slob, and
I'm comfortable with that state... If I ever dumb down enough to get an
expensive cue, I might act differently, a sad state that would be:-)
Still though, no detrimental effects in 4+ years, so Byrnes and Martin
are not wrong by much, if at all.
Did I mention my dirty, under $100 cue beat about 5 grand worth of cues
on Tuesday night...
Oh, I never, ever clean the blue shit off my ferrule either, I like the
look of blue...
Jack
--
http://jbstein.com
http://deklevaflooring.com
http://chrismillerdolls.com
Richard Miller
cue.
Richard
Justin H. <jhea...@NOSPAMcentralva.net> wrote in message
news:3ac3e08a....@news.centralva.net...
Warren Lushia
Patrick Johnson wrote:
while this seems to go against the conventional wisdom expressed on this
group, i agree with pat, sanding with very fine sandpaper is a great way to
clean your shaft and it would take several lifetimes to whittle it down. i
also have 2 shafts, and hell, if need be i could order another. i don't
worry a bit about it. perhaps if i had a very expensive cue from a dead
cuemaker i might think differently.
i'll share a method i used to clean my cue shaft last time that worked
extremely well. i took some soft scrub with bleach and applied a liberal
dose to the shaft and ferrule. i rubbed it gently for about a minute, then
took a wet cloth and throughly removed the soft scrub, followed by a
vigorous drying with a dry cloth. then i took some turtle wax formula 2001
(its a spray bottle, i use it on the interior of my car) applied a liberal
dose, and again vigorously dried it with a dry cloth (the "cloth" i refer to
should really say paper towel). it worked great. another amazing thing was
that soft scrub with bleach made my ferrule look like it was brand new, and
i did nothing but let it sit for a minute and then removed it.
warren..
Ty
(invented those interlocking bridges) told me that's what he uses to 'close'
or 'protect' the pores of the wood. i sand my stick very seldom. i perfer
a few drops of bleach and a damp cloth to remove dirt followed quickly by a
vigorous drying. then the silicone to coat the shaft. i have many cues,
and most of the time i allow my friends to use them. (the cheaper ones that
is) they always claim my sticks are the silkiest they've held. (instead of
bleach, rubbing alchohol works good too since it evaporates fast)
2 things i hate about sanding, is the fact that some ferrulles take more
sanding than the maple in the shaft. so if you repeatedely sand your shaft
you may start to notice the ferrule protrudes or is slightly bigger than the
shaft. using a stick like that pisses me off. the other is it gets rid of
the finish on a new shaft. if you fix your own nicks then you'll have to
sand, but try using a grit above 800-1000 grit. i use leather, the back of
sandpaper, or a crisp clean US Dollar bill (normally $100 to show off) to
burnish the shaft/tip.
been doing this for about 10 years now, and haven't witnessed any problems.
i'm not saying this is the correct thing to do, it's just what i do.
i think everyone will agree to keep your hands as clean as possible while
shooting, and chalk only your tip, not the rest of the stick. unless you
miscue to the point of the shaft hitting the ball. then chalking your shaft
might give you better accuracy.
William Lee
Just the constant pounding of normal play for a few years will change the
wood.
The use of any abrasive that removes wood will speed up the wear process.
It is a trade off and compromise.
It depends how often you play pool with it but If you are willing to have a
new shaft made every 5 to 10 years or so then slicking up the shaft with 600
grit paper every now and then is no problem. If you have an old vintage cue
that you want to keep 100% original then it becomes a very big issue.
Any pool cue that has been used regularly for 4 or 5 years will not play or
feel the same as when it was new. Fortunately shafts can be replaced and
often with better wood than the original. But Hey ... it is YOUR cue and is
about as personal as your favorite pair of jeans so keep it like you like it
to feel but be willing to replace it when it is time.
William Lee
"Justin H. " <jhea...@NOSPAMcentralva.net> wrote in message
news:3ac3e08a....@news.centralva.net...
mja...@nospamcc.hut.fi
: On the other hand, a professional cue repair guy i have talked to says
: that one should NEVER use sandpaper of ANY grit, because, one, it can
: create "flat spots" if the cue isn't turning, and two, it will raise
: the grain which will open up the pores of the wood, allowing water in.
I've been sanding my cue from the beginning and I wish I hadn't. Though
I used so called "Smooth Papers" for cues only, the dirt on my shaft is
sitting there for good. I don't want to use alcohol to clean it. And
I've created "flat spots" too. Btw, it's quite easy to determine if
your shaft isn't perfectly round anymore. Take a piece of towel and
grip the shaft tightly with it and rotate the cue in you hand. The towel
allows much more sensitive touch and you should be able to tell if the
shaft has been sanded from round to elliptical.
Regards,
Mikko Jantti
Espoo, Finland
http://www.hut.fi/u/mjantti/
William Lee
Have you considered having a new shaft fitted?
Check out the Preditor shafts ... you might like them better than the
original.
William Lee
<mja...@NOSPAMcc.hut.fi> wrote in message news:9a26mo$lq3$1...@nntp.hut.fi...
Jack Stein
removes the powder from the shaft. There is no wood dust visible on my
scotch pad at all, and I've been using the same one for 4 years. When a
friend of mine uses my pad, he gets the powder all over it, I think that
is all you are seeing.
nhoop
For cleaning, I agree, but must shafts I've encountered eventually develop
minor (and sometimes major) dings and some physical work is needed. Note that I
only do this when the roughness of the shaft becomes bothersome. For ordinary
cleaning or slicking-up before a tourney I use a leather pad and or "Nufinish"
as noted below.
Anyway, here's what I do when I feel the shaft needs it.
First I raise the dings with a small soldering iron and a damp rag. Often as not
this alters the depressions into bumps, and this is where I sand. I usually
start with #800, but if the bumps are severe I might go as rough as #400. If so,
I pad the sandpaper with a small, flat piece of wood and sand VERY gently to
remove only the bumps. After this I use #1600 or finer if it's handy.
I then rub the shaft with a soft cloth (Old fashioned diapers are great!),
gripping the cloth hard until the shaft feels warm.
The shaft is now smooth but unprotected from moisture. I then put a tiny amount
of spar varnish on a rag (about as much as would adhere if you touched the
surface of the varnish in the can with the pad of your forefinger) and rub this
HARD into the shaft. The developed heat dries it in only a couple of minutes. I
then rub a similar amount of "NuFunish" Car polish into the shaft. I know some
have warned that silicone damages wood. I dunno. but I've been doing this for
some years and have yet to see or feel any degradation of the wood surface.
Best,
Nat Hooper
Oxford, Arkansas
BC
wood powder. I have never used hand powder. Might have been a
different pad than yours. The one I tried was a green, Scotch pad.
On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:54:07 GMT, Jack Stein <jbst...@home.com>
wrote:
Jack Stein
William Lee wrote:
>
> Justin, Cue shafts do change shape and wear out over time.
> Just the constant pounding of normal play for a few years will change the
> wood.
I'm fairly skeptical about this? I doubt the wood changes much, if at
all, and I really think you would be very hard pressed to notice it if
it did. There are many, many things that change in pool, and for anyone
to notice something like the changes in the wood structure wood be
amazing, particularly because IF it actually happened it would be so
gradual, you would never notice it. I'm not talking sanding it down
into a toothpick, just the effects of pounding over the years, I say
that is false.
The rest I guess I agree, although the time period of sanding with a
fine grit I don't agree, because I've been using green pad for 5 years
and my shaft hasn't changed a lick, that I can tell. I wouldn't use
anything on a museum piece, I probably wouldn't use it to shoot pool
with either, though.
> The use of any abrasive that removes wood will speed up the wear process.
Sherm Adamson
Jack Stein wrote:
> The cloud of dust is because they use powder on their hands, and it
> removes the powder from the shaft. There is no wood dust visible on my
> scotch pad at all, and I've been using the same one for 4 years. When a
> friend of mine uses my pad, he gets the powder all over it, I think that
> is all you are seeing.
>
> Jack
>
Jack,
I'll bite! You are kidding aren't you??!!! I assure you if you use a
scotch brite pad on any shaft you are removing wood! That dust is not talcum
powder, it's your shaft!
Sherm
--
Sherm Custom Billiard Cues
by Sherman L. Adamson
3352 Nine Mile Rd. Cincinnati, OH 45255
shop(513)553-2172 cell(513)237-1152
http://www.shermcue.com
Donald Tees
news:3AC5F9E6...@shermcue.com...
>
> I'll bite! You are kidding aren't you??!!! I assure you if you use a
> scotch brite pad on any shaft you are removing wood! That dust is not
talcum
> powder, it's your shaft!
> Sherm
>
I tired it on my Cuetec Graphic, and there was none <G>.
Donald
KP
If your gonna keep a vintage cue forever don't sand at all.
If your a player who is serious and shoots all the time as well as concerned
about his equipment then your probably gonna replace shafts every 3-5 years
so anyways...light (I mean light) sanding may be acceptable.
I won't sand under any circumstances ever. I got a minilathe to clean,
polish and burnish my shafts ever once in awhile. But no sanding.
When I get a ding, I put one drop of water maybe 2 drops on that spot till
they soak in then I hit it with a blow torch. I graze the area with a blow
torch in very fast movements from a good distance. I saw a cue maker do
this. Doesn't hurt anything. Then I may sand with a worn out piece of 1200
or above. It might take longer to use worn out 1200 thats more like 1600 but
at least you know your taking off ONLY what you want and nothing more.
Ron Shepard
or any kind of abrasive as regular maintenence. If you can see the
sawdust, then you are removing wood. The wood does not grow back, even
if it gets wet. Sanding the wood is an irreversible process, you can't
undo the damage once it is done.
This includes normal dent removal, whether it is just wetting the dent
and letting it rise, or if it is done with steam. Immediately after the
wood dries the grain will raise. Don't use sandpaper to smooth the
bump. There is no extra wood there, it is just swollen temporarily.
Wetting the wood did not make it grow. You can smooth down the grain
with a leather pad or even with a cloth.
I've seen players turn a good shaft into a toothpick in as little as a
year. In my opinion, when the shaft gets thinner than the ferrule, like
a wasp waist, then it starts to feel awkward.
There are times when you, or someone doing cue repair for you, should
use sandpaper. If you are changing the taper, or if there was a gash in
the wood grain that was removed, then sanding is part of that process.
These are rare situations, perhaps occurring only once or twice in the
life of the shaft. A shaft should last 10 or 20 years. If you sand the
shaft, it will not last as long as it should. A shaft should not be
considered a disposable item. It is not necessary to use coarse
abrasives on a shaft routinely.
$.02 -Ron Shepard <--IMO, of course
Jack Stein
friend of mine his own pad because I was tired of the white powder on my
pad. I realize a very tiny amount of wood may be removed, but in 4
years, my shaft hasn't changed at all, that I can see. The ferrule is
still level with the wood, so, unless it is shrinking at the same rate
I'm removing wood, then, not much wood is being removed. I just looked
closely at my pad, and see a slight bluish discoloring which I assume is
chalk dust, no powder cloud, or wood dust at all. I probably would not
use the pad on a work of art cue, but, on my work horse cue, there seems
to be no ill effect, and the pad works great.
Jack
--
mja...@nospamcc.hut.fi
: How many years ago was the beginning?
: Have you considered having a new shaft fitted?
: Check out the Preditor shafts ... you might like them better than the
: original.
The beginning of that particular cue was 5 years ago. As the first owner
I didn't have a clue at the time of not sanding the shaft to preserve
the look and the shape. I guess I've taken a couple of millimeters out
of it, it feels thinner than other Bear -cues and I don't remember having
it that way in the beginning. Right now I'm halfway of buying a new cue,
I don't think I'll buy a new shaft, especially a Predator 314 shaft
because they are quite expensive IMO. I'm also having thoughts of
buying a longer cue, maybe 59" or even 60". Because I'm 6'5" tall,
I've been having some problems playing with a standard 58" cue. I
have to grip the butt cap at the very end of the cue and I think
I could increase my stance stability with a longer cue.
Hey tall guys out there, do you play with a 59" or 60" cue, and is
the extra length really helping your game ? And how extra did you pay
for the custom length cue...
Little bit out of thread...
Otto
<mja...@NOSPAMcc.hut.fi> wrote in message news:9a7f98$h57$1...@nntp.hut.fi...
> I'm also having thoughts of
> buying a longer cue, maybe 59" or even 60". Because I'm 6'5" tall,
> I've been having some problems playing with a standard 58" cue. I
> have to grip the butt cap at the very end of the cue and I think
> I could increase my stance stability with a longer cue.
> Hey tall guys out there, do you play with a 59" or 60" cue, and is
> the extra length really helping your game ?
I think the need for a longer cue does not depend on your actual height.
I think it depends more on the length of your upper torso, the width of your
shoulders, and length of the arms.
A 6' 6" person who is all legs and narrow shoulders may be comfortable with
a standard cue.
At the same time, a 5" 8" person who has a long torso, short legs, and broad
shoulders may need a 62" cue.
My point is that the upper body dimensions are what determine the most
comfortable cue length--not actual height.
Just a thought.
Otto
SHVNC
cue soon. A lot of cuemakers will make them longer at no extra charge if your
having a new one built. An idea too, is to have a longer shaft made for your
current cue.
Nixon, D.
Otto;
I think you are correct. I'm only 5'11'' and not beefy.
But I have very long arms and have always felt more
comfortable playing with a 59" or 60" cue. I've also
been more comfortable with a long bridge (most shots)
and a grip almost back to the but end of the cue. For
serious play I've used a 59.5" Phillippi, Sn.Pete, for
years. Deflection/squirt qualities are equal to the
Predator shafts (at least the ones I've had the opportunity
to evaluate).
My $0.02
D.DaddytheDave
--
/s/David E. Nixon n...@att.net
Rejoice, Dear Hearts !!
Desde La Tierra de la Vida Amena--just outside the BeltWay
Jack Justis
Before you do, it might be a good idea to see if it fits in your case. Many
cases will not accommodate a 60" cue.
mja...@nospamcc.hut.fi
:> I'm going to try a 60"
: Before you do, it might be a good idea to see if it fits in your case. Many
: cases will not accommodate a 60" cue.
Yep, you should try it... just in case.
Bert M.
Good idea. I have a 60 inch cue and bought an Instroke on-line.I was assured
that it would fit. Alas it didn't, and had to work with John collings to get a
newly manufactured one. The newest Instroke cases accomodate a 60 inch cue but
the older ones will have a problem.
If you do buy an Instroke, and it turns out to be one that is not right from
the factory ( though that is hard to imagine with all the backlogged orders
John has), contact him, He is very easy to deal with, and will do his best to
satisfy you. He certainly did with me
A proud owner of a great Instroke case
Bert M <-- C=:-)
RWMCT
out of their shafts. Mizerak was the same way. They would just get Balabushka
or Szamboti to make more shafts. I wonder if they still do this. I asked
Szamboti about this. He said use damp and dry paper towels, period. As for a
shaft not changing in four years of sanding, four years is an awful short time
for a shaft that should last more than 20 years.
Rich, who just got a shaft back with a new tip, and now its cleaned up and
lacks that "15 years of dirt in the pores" look I love so well.