More Q's on layered tips
Stephen
hints for me on installing layered tips. I am going to use a lathe to
shape the tip once it is glued on.
I have been using the old standby, Tweeten's ten minute cement and I
have never had a tip come off with it. Do you recommend something else
instead?
I read the hints for installing from the Talisman website (included
below) and it mentions in step 4 that the tips need to be cut down. I
got the pre-domed tips and they are pretty thick but I wondered how much
I actually had to reduce the thickness.
Obviously I don't want to cut off any more than I need to since I paid
for every last millimeter of it! Do I have to worry that the tips will
break from sideways pressure on a hard shot with english if the tips are
too thick? Will extra thickness cause the tip to be too spongey?
Thanks in advance to any help.
Stephen
(You can reply to me personally by changing cold to hot in the email addy.)
From the Talismanbilliards.com website:
Cue tip installation
Cue tip installation suggestions, submitted by one of our regular cue
maker customers. We suggest printing this page or downloading a text
file to print out. Click here for the text file.
I found that the best way to install a layered tip is this:
1) Sand the bottom of the tip as usual.
2) Put superglue gel on both the ferrule and tip, smear together, pull
apart, wait a few seconds, put tip on ferrule and hold in place with a
steady pressure of some kind, wait ten minutes.
3) Trim down the side of the tip to finish size, sand lightly, burnish
(sometimes I leave a 1 degree angle on the side of the tip to allow for
mushrooming, not a problem with Talisman tips).
4) At this point the tip is much too long and unshaped, so I use a
single cutting bit in the lathe to remove .015 from the side of the tip
to the point where such a cut would intersect the eventual desired dome
shape.
5) Then I remove another .015 from the side of the tip until it
intersects just further out on the dome.
6) Keep removing .015 and stopping just short of the prior cut ... this
will eventually approximate the dome shape and the advantage is that
this procedure is less stressful on the tip and doesn't delaminate it
(which can be a problem).
7) Now the tip is roughly dome shaped but very rough and needs to be
shaped with a mill file and sandpaper ... use gentle pressure with the
mill file to avoid delaminating the tip. The main point is to be gentle.
Do not do anything to generate too much heat and do not apply water to
the sides for burnishing. Too much can cause the leather layers to
separate. A properly installed Talisman tip will give you months, if not
years of pure satisfaction at the table.
We care very much for all our customers and take full responsibility for
our products if you experience any problems, please contact us.
in...@talismanbilliards.com
sheldoncue
> I wondered if some of you guys with tip installing experience had a few
> hints for me on installing layered tips. I am going to use a lathe to
> shape the tip once it is glued on.
I do ALL cutting and shaping with a razor blade.
1. chop off old tip
2. hold blade against end of ferrule while spinning to true end.
3. touch lightly while still spinning with 220 to rough end of ferrule.
4. sand tip with 220 on flat surface.
5. put small drop of thin superglue on tip and wipe dry.
6. put liberal amount of superglue Gel on tip and smear on ferrule.
7. put more superglue gel on tip and and press to ferrule for 15-30 seconds.
8. with cue spinning, come from behind tip with blade parallel to shaft and
cut flush to ferrule with razor blade. (if tip is very oversized, use single
point cutter to get close)
9. put your single point cutter right in front of the tip as a rest for the
blade and shape the tip by rotating the blade across it.
http://home.attbi.com/~sheldoncue/new/tip.jpg
Using this method it is possible to install a tip and NEVER TOUCH the
ferrule. (except for possibly with the side of your blade) Just make sure to
go easy when shaping and make sure you have a fresh, SHARP blade.
Disclaimer: if you cut your finger off, please don't blame me. Some people
are not meant to use sharp implements!!!
Stephen
Thanks a million,
Stephen
Frank G
> I do ALL cutting and shaping with a razor blade.
>
>
I watched Joe Blackburn do tips like that for a week at the Open. He
was quick and efficient. I was impressed.
Frank
--
Frank G
Frank-at-Quick-Clean.com
Clean your pool table cloth with our unique product.
www.quick-clean.com
Tony Jones
You got a great answer there from Sheldon. I would like to reiterate
that a fresh sharp blade should be used or else the blade will
scrape/tear the tip rather than cut it and result in the top layers
becoming damaged.
Regarding the height issue. The problem here is when using a lot of
english the tip is submitted to lots of side force at the contact
point between the ball and tip, which in turn, creates both shearing
and traction due to the resulting momentum on one half of the tip. As
the tip's material is designed to resist compression, these types of
stresses can lead to the separation. Its interesting to note that when
this occurs its usually the actual layer of leather that is pulled
apart since the line where the layers are bonded do not yield as
easily. This can happen if the tips are left too tall.
Height of the tip is dependant on the diameter of the shaft. The
smaller the diameter of the shaft the lower the height of the tip
should be. We make Talisman tips at 14mm (diameter) standard and give
plenty of tip height to work with during installation, but depending
on the shaft diameter some of the height needs to be taken down. We
have done a lot of testing on our tips and other brands of layered
tips to try and find a formula that works out a good working height
relative to shaft diameter. This is of course difficult as the
variables that may cause the tip to separate are force and the angle
of contact and they differ between stroke and the shot being taken.
As a rule of thumb, developed to avoid potential problems but at the
same time give players the maximum of installed tip for their money,
we suggest that the side wall of the tip, from the edge of the ferrule
to where the dome of the radius begins, be around 33-35% of the shaft
diameter. For example on a 13mm shaft, the sidewall of the tip should
be approx. 4.5mm. Depending on how you like your tips shaped you would
then have around 2mm of tip that is shaped in to a dome. So a 13 mm
shaft would have a tip of around 6.5 mm total height or half of the
shaft diameter. Please not that these are approximate values and
exceeding these recommendations may result in no problems whatsoever.
Our testing involved repeated break shots, aiming at the one ball,
hitting the cue ball on the same spot and placed in the same position
on the table each time. We used one cue and tested both Talisman PRO
and WB tips in the various hardness grades and most of the other
brands of layered tips. We started with installing the tips as tall as
possible and then worked our way down to a height where we could not
reproduce the problem.
Installed at the optimum height for your shaft, you should still get
months (if not years) of use from your layered tip as long as you
don't "over" maintain it.
I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Tony
www.talismanbilliards.com
Stephen <steely...@coldmail.com> wrote in message news:<3DA30655...@coldmail.com>...
Brian King
BK
Stephen
I found that on a 13 mm shaft, the domed tip looked to be about the
right thickness once the tip was shaped down to a dime radius. The
center of the tip was virtually untouched. Looking at the tip after
trimming, it was apparent that side shearing was not going to be a
problem on a 13mm shaft. I could see how the tip might need to be
thinned down a little on a smaller shaft. Once again, common sense
prevails.
I've put a about six hours play on the tip in the last couple days and I
am really pleased with the way it is performing. I am going give it the
recommended post installation touch up and put the low-mushrooming
reputation of the tip to the test over the next while.
I'm going to put tips on some fellow players cues next week so I'll have
some first hand opinions shortly. I can email you the consencus if you
like.
Stephen
Already thinking I only want to share this find with the players I like...
Vader93490
forward to seeing how it plays... if it works like I've been informed, I'll
switch over to it for good.
It was put on a 12.75 shaft for one of my Meucci cues.
Jack Stein
Stephen wrote:
> Stephen
>
> Already thinking I only want to share this find with the players I like...
Too late, we've been sharing the fact that Tailsman Tips are great for a
good while now. Also, the fact that he hangs around RSB sometimes to
give helpful info about his tips is a real bonus as well.
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
Smorgass Bored
Re: More Q's on layered tips
(Vader93490)
looking forward to seeing how it plays... if it works like I've been
informed, I'll switch over to it for good.
(*<~ Me too. Two weeks ago, I had a new medium water buffalo put on
one shaft and medium/hard Moori (that i got from my good friend Bill O)
put on the other. They were both initially shaped 'round' by the cue guy
at P-9-Ball and I'm just going to let my 'play' determine their eventual
shape. I like the Moori a LOT (but, I keep coming up barely short on all
my full table banks at one-pocket- what's up with THAT)
when the moon hits your eye, like a big pizza pie, that's a Moori....
Tampa Tubby-Bob