Billiards Workbook -- (Bad) Review
Patrick Johnson
I got this thing in the mail today (a couple of days late after paying
for fast delivery) and have only skimmed through it, but that's enough
to know that it's not worth anything near $150 -- it may not be worth
much at all.
The VAST majority of the "over 1,000 drills" are duplicates of the same
shot setup at different distances. I doubt that there are 50 distinct
"drills" -- really just setup practice shots that you could easily dream
up yourself, and definitely don't need full page diagrams to understand.
If you like unimaginative, tedious, repetitious practice shots, need ten
pounds of diagrams to show you all the possible cue ball and object ball
positions and have $150 you don't like, then you might like this albatross.
I'll probably keep the 50 pages that aren't filler, throw away the rest,
and never look at the 50 pages again either.
By the way, it wasn't my money so I'm not upset about that, although
anybody who buys this should be.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Jimbo Ct
Jim <------Wouldn't spend that much on drills he won't do anyway
Billy
That's good to know...appreciate it.
..............Billy
Billy
Pat explains:
> If you like unimaginative, tedious, repetitious practice shots, need ten
> pounds of diagrams to show you all the possible cue ball and object ball
> positions and have $150 you don't like, then you might like this albatross.
Aaaah...not enough physics and geometry, huh? How boring...I knew you
weren't a "shots" type of guy.
> I'll probably keep the 50 pages that aren't filler, throw away the rest,
> and never look at the 50 pages again either.
I can see you're not much of a businessman. Take the other 950 pages
of drills, break them up into about 20 sections of 50 each and sell
them for $8 each. Pay back the buck and a half and you'll still have
ten bucks to spend at Dairy Queen.
Pat also sez:
> By the way, it wasn't my money so I'm not upset about that...
Damn! You rolled someone to support your pool habit?! You're more of
a bad dude than I realized and maybe I won't be messin' with you too
much any more.
...................Billy (keepin' to himself)
Patrick Johnson
> I can see you're not much of a businessman.
Well, I was hoping you guys would be so grateful that I saved you $150
for this turkey that you'd each send me a little something for falling
on the grenade for you. Guess I was thinking of another group...
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Bob Johnson
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
bo...@cris.com
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:100d8nd...@news.supernews.com...
Glenn Deneweth
months of internet. Plus the content of material here is by far more
advanced than what I've read in any book. Just have to live with the
constant bickering that's all...Small price to pay...
Glenn <- Never writes anything in this space
ratchet
Patrick Johnson wrote:
> Pat Johnson
> Chicago
Try alt.dead.poolhero !!
Ratchet---thinks better you than him , would really miss this NG !!!
hehehe
Pat Hall
PatH
Billy
> Seems to me that lessons are better here, and that $150 pays for a few
> months of internet. Plus the content of material here is by far more
> advanced than what I've read in any book. Just have to live with the
> constant bickering that's all...Small price to pay...
> Glenn <- Never writes anything in this space
Well...I guess you just got your cherry popped...how does it feel?
.............Billy
Nat
finance consultant for businesses. I could find no referrence that suggested
she had any expertise on the pool table.
It appears she has found a nifty way to make a buck.
Nat
Nat
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:100d8nd...@news.supernews.com...
> Well, I was hoping you guys would be so grateful that I saved you $150
> for this turkey that you'd each send me a little something for falling
> on the grenade for you. Guess I was thinking of another group...
Nah..most of us think you a pretty good guy.
Nat
Glenn Deneweth
> > Glenn <- Never writes anything in this space
>
> Well...I guess you just got your cherry popped...how does it feel?
>
> .............Billy
Used...
Pat Hall
sometime in mid March.
PatH
Martin
and should receive it soon. If it is as horrid as you say I'll offer
to sell the thing cheap. Its a real shame that the author would try
to bilk the billiard community that way. Where are her ethics?
Martin
Patrick Johnson <patrick...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<100bspi...@news.supernews.com>...
Jimbo Ct
LOL that's a good one.
Jim <---I'll buy Pat's copy for $25 and Martins for $40, you pay S&H
Joe Koontz
You don't have to sell it cheap. She has a money back guarantee if you are
not satisfied.. You may even like it??
Who knows?
Joe
Patrick Johnson
received from Diana Sorrentino after somebody showed her my review of
the Billiards Workbook. I appreciate her response, and the fact that
she pointed out her refund policy (which I wasn't aware of). Since I
gave her Workbook a bad review, I thought it's only fair that I also
show how positively she responded to that.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
= = = = = = = = = = =
Diana,
I'll take you up on your offer of a refund -- I didn't know it was
available, although I checked your website briefly to see. I reviewed
your publication on the rec.sport.billiard newsgroup in the same spirit
that many other publications and products are reviewed there by and for
the participants -- some get good reviews and some bad. If I had known
of your refund policy I would also have taken the matter up with you
directly, although that wouldn't have prevented my review on RSB.
I stand by the substance of my review, and although I can't wish you
well with this publication, I do hope you do better in the future.
Pat Johnson
= = = = = = = = = = =
> Good afternoon Mr. Johnson:
>
> Your review of The Billiards Workbook, which was posted on
the RSB, has just been shared with my by one of the contributing editors
of the publication. I am sorry to hear that you are not satisfied with
your purchase.
>
> Mr. Johnson, if you are that dissatisfied with the product,
and you believe that there is little benefit to be derived from the
publication, please return the publication in saleable condition and a
100% refund will be issued. Additionally, I would like to know why you
chose not to address your dissatisfaction directly to us as we do have a
published refund policy which can be found on The Billiards Workbook
WebSite.
>
> Please package the workbook, in the same shipping container
and in saleable condition, and return for a 100% refund of the purchase
price AND the shipping costs.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Diana Elaine Sorrentino, Ph.D.
> Publisher
>
> The Billiards Workbook
> Suite - 1500
> Two Penn Plaza
> New York, New York 10121
> 212-947-3630
>
> di...@dianasorrentino.com
> www.billiardsworkbook.com
>
> The Billiards Workbook is proud to sponsor WPBA Touring Professional
- Gerda Hofstatter
Samiel
>Thanks for the report. I ordered one on a whim (bad move apparently)
>and should receive it soon. If it is as horrid as you say I'll offer
>to sell the thing cheap. Its a real shame that the author would try
>to bilk the billiard community that way. Where are her ethics?
>
>Martin
>
Maybe Pat just didn't find the book to be a good value. Maybe you'll
think differently. Along with movies, books are pretty subjective.
:-)
- Samiel
Billy
Glenn guiltily whimpers:
> Used...
Let's not see any more moral decay and have you turn into a slut.
..................Billy
JoeyA
JoeyA
"Nat" <nat...@REMOVETHIScenturytel.net> wrote in message
news:SdSdnbBvqr5...@centurytel.net...
Bob Johnson
serious falling out, and I believe it may have included a lawsuit, a counter
suit, and a settlement of some kind.
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
bo...@cris.com
"Nat" <nat...@REMOVETHIScenturytel.net> wrote in message
news:btSdnaen96Y...@centurytel.net...
dalecue
anyone who goes out of his/her way to let you know it has a PhD
<like say, Dr. Laura> should be avoided like the plauge
just a thought
Dale
Patrick Johnson wrote in message <100dvte...@news.supernews.com>...
Sorrentino ex
> finance consultant for businesses. I could find no referrence that suggested
> she had any expertise on the pool table.
>
> It appears she has found a nifty way to make a buck.
>
> Nat
The pretentiously self-titled dried up old prune is the author of
"Pool drills for C-players by a D-player who happens to be a doctor" -
otherwise known here as the "Billiards Workbook". It was conjured up
during a period of unemployment that Diana Sorrentino also filled with
heroic but ultimately futile attendence at the Women's regional CAT
tour. Of the seven tournament stops that she entered in 2002 and 2003,
the Dr. finished two-and-out SIX out of seven times. And we are
talking about a women's qualifying tour where the bottom finishers are
no better than "D" players, or APA sl-3 or -4 if you like.
http://www.threecatproductions.org/stats.htm
Here are some further background:
http://www.insidepool.com/cgi-bin/portal/wextra7.pl/p/content1/r/258?lang=
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ccbboard&Number=19002&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ccbboard&Number=40475&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1
Jim Wyant
means Piled higher and Deeper. If you have to advertise your PhD, it
probably means you aren't automatically getting the respect you think 7-10
years of higher education is worth.
--Jim
On 1/15/04 8:20 PM, in article
%%GNb.20024$VS4.6...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "dalecue"
Deno J. Andrews
will never "get-" that this type of book is no claim to higher knowledge of
the game...no claim to superior skill...and no claim of being a great player
herself. This is a workbook. It is meant to be worked through, pages being
taken to the pool room a few at a time. A place to keep notes on shots and
progressive drills; it is a resource that can be used to challenge yourself
to learn new shots and to practice shots you already know, all the while
giving you a place to notate your assets and liabilities at the table.
This book is an attempt to help a player be more disciplined at the table in
practice. Yes, there are many pages that are not that useable...but so
what? I mean, I can't for the life of me understand 40% of Ceulemans' book
"Mr. 100." But think about it. A book like this is the starting point of
the dream binder of notes from ten years of experience...but the great part
is that the experience is yours, not the author's. Just because some shots
in the pages are either not possible or probable, they are still valuable to
ponder, consider, and work out challenging ways to get shape if possible,
that you may never use is a game. All of that helps to define your skills
at the table even if the shots are wild at times. It is skill you are
building in progressive drills...and skill allows you to manufacture shots
rather than to simply recall them.
With regard to the price, while it may seem expensive, in the long run it is
not. I mean, if someone gave me a binder like this when I was 18 and just
learning to compete...and they told me to challenge myself, I wouldn't give
them $10 for it. However, after ten or so years of practice, I collected a
pretty nice binder of table diagrams with drills, shots, and notes that I
wouldn't sell today for $2000. What she is asking for the binder is not a
lot of money in the big picture...and that is a small price to pay for some
structured practice and thought at the table.
I don't see in the book anywhere where it explores any new technique or
strategy, or even suggests in any depth how to play the game by her style.
This workbook is for the player to fill with information, not the author.
So I bet a lot of people don't see the value. However, I bet many of those
same people will shoot shots over and over and only take mental note and
never write anything down. I did it for a couple of years and am still mad
at myself for doing so. What she is asking for the book is reasonable if
you consider what it really is. The book is a challenge, an assignment for
the next several years, a goal to reach, and a clearinghouse for the
information you learn on your own. The book is not there to teach you how
to play...it is there to help teach you how to learn how to play. And that
sort of book doesn't require the author to be an expert at the game, but
rather an expert at how to learn. Do first graders learn to read by taking
mental note? Heck no, they repeat, they write, they sound it out, they
struggle to understand, they struggle to learn. Billiards is no
different...you can learn what you do by standing in the hall at school and
peeking through the door, or you can be a part of the class. A book like
this inspires you to be a part of the class that is going on in your head,
at the table. Those pages have tons of space for notes to self. I wish I
had a binder like this in the late 80s, and knew what to do with it.
Finally, if you want to attack the Dr.'s national ranking...why not tell us
what makes you expert on any cue game? And what makes you expert on knowing
what can and can't help bring your game to the next level? Are you just mad
because you haven't a post graduate degree? Sounds like degree envy to
me...
Deno J. Andrews
"Sorrentino ex" <friskyc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Dan White
news:BC2CD9C3.27426%jwy...@columbus.rr.com...
> Generally my sense is that if they have PhD after their name, it actually
> means Piled higher and Deeper. If you have to advertise your PhD, it
> probably means you aren't automatically getting the respect you think 7-10
> years of higher education is worth.
>
> --Jim
>
>
> On 1/15/04 8:20 PM, in article
> %%GNb.20024$VS4.6...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "dalecue"
> <pdg...@spamxerworldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > life advise part 3
> >
> > anyone who goes out of his/her way to let you know it has a PhD
> > <like say, Dr. Laura> should be avoided like the plauge
> >
> > just a thought
> >
I know someone who is a retired PhD from NASA. He got the biggest kick, one
day, in telling me about a guy who put his name followed by PhD on his
tombstone. He couldn't stop laughing at the idea of someone putting their
educational credentials on their tombstone.
dwhite
John Pizzuto
> > > Publisher
> > >
> > > The Billiards Workbook
> > > Suite - 1500
> > > Two Penn Plaza
> > > New York, New York 10121
> > > 212-947-3630
Two Penn Plaza? Good grief! That's the EIB building.
Dan White
news:JiKNb.8336$LK6...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>A book like
> this inspires you to be a part of the class that is going on in your head,
> at the table. Those pages have tons of space for notes to self. I wish I
> had a binder like this in the late 80s, and knew what to do with it.
>
I don't think a list of 1500 drills is going to inspire much. It's like a
diet book that has a bunch of low cal recipes in it. You pick it up, follow
it for two weeks, and then you're back at McDonald's. If you don't have a
foundation in the underlying issues, then you won't be motivated to do the
right thing. I think a book more like Fancher's Pleasures of Small Motions
(if you can get through it) would likely do more for a person's practice
habits than a book of drills could do. I haven't had much trouble thinking
up my own drills...it's just knowing that you have to assess your weaknesses
and focus on them intensively that is the hard part.
dwhite
Dan White
news:6ae43558.04011...@posting.google.com...
Yes, it's the Excellence In Billiards building. She plays with half her
brain tied behind her back, doncha know?
dwhite
Tjander Nathoeni
>
> Thanks for the report. I ordered one on a whim (bad move apparently)
> and should receive it soon. If it is as horrid as you say I'll offer
> to sell the thing cheap. Its a real shame that the author would try
> to bilk the billiard community that way. Where are her ethics?
she wouldn't even be able to spell ethics.
Tjander
Donald Tees
> life advise part 3
>
> anyone who goes out of his/her way to let you know it has a PhD
> <like say, Dr. Laura> should be avoided like the plauge
>
> just a thought
>
> Dale
I'll second that.
Donald
Billy
Sniff...sniff...sniff...what is that smell?? GOT IT!! The smell of a
potentially frivolous lawsuit, but a lawsuit nevertheless from a real
pro.
Keep them retractions a comin'. You and Martha might both be broke
and in leg irons.
................Billy
Samiel
Pizzuto) wrote:
My ignorance shows... EIB?
- Samiel
Erik Jørgensen
> My ignorance shows... EIB?
Excellence in Billiards.
--
Erik «Macint0sh» Jørgensen * Web: <URL:http://killervampire.com>
==========================================================================
Hvorfor bør du quote riktig?
Les mer her: <URL:http://home.online.no/~vidaandr/news/OBSquoting.html>
Patrick Johnson
> Keep them retractions a comin'.
You mean this one?
>>I stand by the substance of my review
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Samiel
<macint...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>* Samiel (sam...@samiel.com):
>
>> My ignorance shows... EIB?
>
>Excellence in Billiards.
>
Which is some kind of important building? I'm not sure what the
significance of this building is. What is in there?
- Samiel
Ron Shepard
"Dan White" <dwh...@erols.com> wrote:
> >A book like
> > this inspires you to be a part of the class that is going on in your head,
> > at the table. Those pages have tons of space for notes to self. I wish I
> > had a binder like this in the late 80s, and knew what to do with it.
>
> I don't think a list of 1500 drills is going to inspire much. It's like a
> diet book that has a bunch of low cal recipes in it. You pick it up, follow
> it for two weeks, and then you're back at McDonald's. If you don't have a
> foundation in the underlying issues, then you won't be motivated to do the
> right thing. I think a book more like Fancher's Pleasures of Small Motions
> (if you can get through it) would likely do more for a person's practice
> habits than a book of drills could do. I haven't had much trouble thinking
> up my own drills...it's just knowing that you have to assess your weaknesses
> and focus on them intensively that is the hard part.
It sounds like this "workbook" serves the same sort of purpose as
Kim Davenport's "Target Pool". To those who have seen both, which
do you think is the most effective?
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Dan White
news:524g00pk5osder07n...@4ax.com...
OK, apparently you don't know Rush Limbaugh. His company is called the
Excellence in Broadcasting network. He has a studio in that building and
has the largest radio audience in the country.
dwhite
Priveye
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited"...James Thurber
"Dan White" <dwh...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:40081e2b$0$6078$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
Dan White
news:ron-shepard-7FE3...@comcast.ash.giganews.com...
>
> It sounds like this "workbook" serves the same sort of purpose as
> Kim Davenport's "Target Pool". To those who have seen both, which
> do you think is the most effective?
>
grammar. That would be "more effective" when you compare two things to each
other.
ahh, now I feel better...
dwhite
Billy
> Billy wrote:
>
> > Keep them retractions a comin'.
Pat Ebert states:
> You mean this one?
>
> >>I stand by the substance of my review
I don't think that one will help to earn any residuals for promoting the book.
.................Billy (you've been served)
Billy
> On 15 Jan 2004 22:47:51 -0800, jpiz...@jandssafeguard.com (John
> Pizzuto) wrote:
>
> >> > > Diana Elaine Sorrentino, Ph.D.
> >> > > Publisher
> >> > >
> >> > > The Billiards Workbook
> >> > > Suite - 1500
> >> > > Two Penn Plaza
> >> > > New York, New York 10121
> >> > > 212-947-3630
> >
> >
> >Two Penn Plaza? Good grief! That's the EIB building.
Samiel wonders:
> My ignorance shows... EIB?
If you Rush out and help conserve Bush's campaign, it'll soon come to you.
.....................Billy
Patrick Johnson
> It sounds like this "workbook" serves the same sort of purpose as
> Kim Davenport's "Target Pool". To those who have seen both, which
> do you think is the most effective?
Funny you should mention that, because the Workbook includes a target
(although it's kind of an afterthought and not mentioned much).
I don't know what "purpose" you're talking about exactly, but I don't
give the Workbook points for providing blank notesheets on which to
record progress. That's just more filler, and the thing has way too
much of that already (90% or more of the 4 inch stack of paper, I'd
say). Where's the beef?
If you need to spend $150 for blank paper so you'll be motivated to keep
track, that's a personal problem, not an objective value for the paper.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Samiel
wrote:
Ah, so it was a joke... :-/
I think I caught Rush when he was on TV... never on radio though...
I thought it might be where BCA was headquartered or something.
- Samiel (ignorant billiard player)
JoeyA
javelin. Consult Lou and JAM on the appropriate embossed Latin language
slogan for the leather shield.
JoeyA
"Bob Johnson" <bo...@cris.com> wrote in message
news:bu6c4b$4...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> who wants to help design the RSB Medal of Valor? ;>)
>
> --
> Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
> bo...@cris.com
>
> "Patrick Johnson" <patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:100d8nd...@news.supernews.com...
> > Billy wrote:
> >
> > > I can see you're not much of a businessman.
> >
> > Well, I was hoping you guys would be so grateful that I saved you $150
> > for this turkey that you'd each send me a little something for falling
> > on the grenade for you. Guess I was thinking of another group...
> >
> > Pat Johnson
> > Chicago
> >
>
>
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
What, me worry?
"JoeyA" <jo...@officespecialtiespool.net> wrote in message
news:bu9hi9$fpe$1...@news.datasync.com...
ratchet
>>>Ratchet<<<
>
> "JoeyA" wrote in message
Jimbo Ct
>>
>Which is some kind of important building? I'm not sure what the
>significance of this building is. What is in there?
The golden cue???
Jim <---Hates Rush
Ron Shepard
"Dan White" <dwh...@erols.com> wrote:
> > It sounds like this "workbook" serves the same sort of purpose as
> > Kim Davenport's "Target Pool". To those who have seen both, which
> > do you think is the most effective?
> >
> Well since I could never nit pick your physics I'll have to settle for
> grammar. That would be "more effective" when you compare two things to each
> other.
Thanks for the correction.
BTW, I got Robert Byrne's new book of 350 shots for Christmas and
I'm working through it. I've already learned a couple of new shots
and I'm only on page 50.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Dan White
>
> BTW, I got Robert Byrne's new book of 350 shots for Christmas and
> I'm working through it. I've already learned a couple of new shots
> and I'm only on page 50.
>
-- sounds like a recommendation. I'll have to check it out.
dwhite
Mark0
perspective on it). I hate drills and would have never bought such a book.
Nonetheless, I appreciate Pat falling on the grenade on this one.
And it apparently is NOT 1500 drills. It's 50 drills with 30 variations.
Mark0
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:JiKNb.8336$LK6...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> I think that the good Dr. understands something that most of the
nay-sayers
> will never "get-" that this type of book is no claim to higher knowledge
of
> the game...no claim to superior skill...and no claim of being a great
player
> herself. This is a workbook. It is meant to be worked through, pages
being
> taken to the pool room a few at a time. A place to keep notes on shots
and
> progressive drills; it is a resource that can be used to challenge
yourself
> to learn new shots and to practice shots you already know, all the while
> giving you a place to notate your assets and liabilities at the table.
>
> This book is an attempt to help a player be more disciplined at the table
in
> practice. Yes, there are many pages that are not that useable...but so
> what? I mean, I can't for the life of me understand 40% of Ceulemans'
book
> "Mr. 100." But think about it. A book like this is the starting point of
> the dream binder of notes from ten years of experience...but the great
part
> is that the experience is yours, not the author's. Just because some
shots
> in the pages are either not possible or probable, they are still valuable
to
> ponder, consider, and work out challenging ways to get shape if possible,
> that you may never use is a game. All of that helps to define your skills
> at the table even if the shots are wild at times. It is skill you are
> building in progressive drills...and skill allows you to manufacture shots
> rather than to simply recall them.
>
> With regard to the price, while it may seem expensive, in the long run it
is
> not. I mean, if someone gave me a binder like this when I was 18 and just
> learning to compete...and they told me to challenge myself, I wouldn't
give
> them $10 for it. However, after ten or so years of practice, I collected
a
> pretty nice binder of table diagrams with drills, shots, and notes that I
> wouldn't sell today for $2000. What she is asking for the binder is not a
> lot of money in the big picture...and that is a small price to pay for
some
> structured practice and thought at the table.
>
> I don't see in the book anywhere where it explores any new technique or
> strategy, or even suggests in any depth how to play the game by her style.
> This workbook is for the player to fill with information, not the author.
> So I bet a lot of people don't see the value. However, I bet many of
those
> same people will shoot shots over and over and only take mental note and
> never write anything down. I did it for a couple of years and am still
mad
> at myself for doing so. What she is asking for the book is reasonable if
> you consider what it really is. The book is a challenge, an assignment
for
> the next several years, a goal to reach, and a clearinghouse for the
> information you learn on your own. The book is not there to teach you how
> to play...it is there to help teach you how to learn how to play. And
that
> sort of book doesn't require the author to be an expert at the game, but
> rather an expert at how to learn. Do first graders learn to read by
taking
> mental note? Heck no, they repeat, they write, they sound it out, they
> struggle to understand, they struggle to learn. Billiards is no
> different...you can learn what you do by standing in the hall at school
and
> peeking through the door, or you can be a part of the class. A book like
> this inspires you to be a part of the class that is going on in your head,
> at the table. Those pages have tons of space for notes to self. I wish I
> had a binder like this in the late 80s, and knew what to do with it.
>
> Finally, if you want to attack the Dr.'s national ranking...why not tell
us
> what makes you expert on any cue game? And what makes you expert on
knowing
> what can and can't help bring your game to the next level? Are you just
mad
> because you haven't a post graduate degree? Sounds like degree envy to
> me...
>
> Deno J. Andrews
>
>
>
>
> "Sorrentino ex" <friskyc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > The pretentiously self-titled dried up old prune is the author of
> > "Pool drills for C-players by a D-player who happens to be a doctor" -
> > otherwise known here as the "Billiards Workbook". It was conjured up
> > during a period of unemployment that Diana Sorrentino also filled with
> > heroic but ultimately futile attendence at the Women's regional CAT
> > tour. Of the seven tournament stops that she entered in 2002 and 2003,
> > the Dr. finished two-and-out SIX out of seven times. And we are
> > talking about a women's qualifying tour where the bottom finishers are
> > no better than "D" players, or APA sl-3 or -4 if you like.
>
>
>
Mark0
Well Pat. Sounds to me like your about to have no book or $150 in your
possession.
'I couldn't resell it, it wasn't in salable condition.'
Mark0 <--these PhD's and their word games ;O)
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:100dvte...@news.supernews.com...
> > Diana Elaine Sorrentino, Ph.D.
> > Publisher
> >
> > The Billiards Workbook
> > Suite - 1500
> > Two Penn Plaza
> > New York, New York 10121
> > 212-947-3630
> >
Mark0
MArk0 <--talk radio fan
"Samiel" <sam...@samiel.com> wrote in message
news:524g00pk5osder07n...@4ax.com...
weedwacker
> http://www.billiardsworkbook.com/
>
> ...
> The VAST majority of the "over 1,000 drills" are duplicates of the same
> shot setup at different distances. I doubt that there are 50 distinct
> "drills" -- really just setup practice shots that you could easily dream
> up yourself, and definitely don't need full page diagrams to understand.
>
> If you like unimaginative, tedious, repetitious practice shots, need ten
> pounds of diagrams to show you all the possible cue ball and object ball
> positions and have $150 you don't like, then you might like this albatross.
>
> .....
>
> Pat Johnson
> Chicago
I'm fairly new to the game (playing about a year) and while the topic
of instructional books is on the table, I was wondering if anyone
could recommend a good instructional book having a reasonable number
of drills (it would be a challenge to attempt to master 50 drills at
this point let alone 1000) at a reasonable price (my budget is more
like $20-$30 a book, rather than $150....I can buy the blank notebook
on my own).
Right now, when I practice I throw a bunch of balls on the table
concentrating on making a ball and getting shape on the next (if I
miss I repeat, often several times, until I make the shot and get the
leave). However, I have never done any structured drills and think
this may help me improve more than my current practice technique.
I apologize ahead of time as I assume this question has been asked and
answered before, but maybe there are some new books out there that
make the topic more current (then again, maybe not).
Thanks!
Bill
Arlington, VA
Bill
>
> ...Right now, when I practice I throw a bunch of balls on the table
> concentrating on making a ball and getting shape on the next (if I
> miss I repeat, often several times, until I make the shot and get the
> leave). However, I have never done any structured drills and think
>
Most books have very few practice pages. The practice drills I use were
found in several different books or from my own design. If you're on a
budget, you can create your own practice drills. First make a list of what
you want to practice each day of the week. Example:
Monday - Long Shots
Tuesday - Position
Wednesday - Bank & Kick Shots
Thursday - Carom & Combo Shots
Friday - Cut shots
Saturday - Straight shots
Sunday - Frozen balls
Then for each area of practice, create practice drills which increase in
difficulty and/or cover several different types of common shots. For
example straight shots: start by placing the object ball near a corner
pocket and cue ball one diamond away. Then after each shot, move the cue
ball one diamond further away ending with the cue ball frozen to the far
rail. Next leave the cue ball one diamond away from the far rail and move
the object ball further and further away from the pocket.
The idea is that you are moving the cue ball further and further away from
the object ball for each shot or moving the object ball further and further
away from the pocket for each shot. Also try these shots with stop, follow
or draw. TRY to get the cue ball to follow the object ball into the pocket
for follow (from various distances). Good practice.
For cut shots, do the same thing. Start with cut shots where the object
ball is close to the pocket. Then move the object ball further and further
away. For your added pleasure, don't forget cut shots into the side
pockets.
For frozen balls, you can freeze all balls to the rails (space them out
around table) AND shoot each shot with cue ball-in-hand also frozen to a
rail. If you miss, re-freeze the ball back on the rail. Hint: shoot with
inside english and hit the rail first. (This can be frustrating at first,
stop and try again next week if you get worn out. After a few weeks it will
be easier.) Next; on the long rail, freeze an object ball to the rail and
freeze the cue ball to the same rail on the opposite side of the side
pocket. Then shoot a straight shot into the far corner pocket. (Hint: shoot
slow/medium with rail side extreme english. This pushes the cue ball away
from the rail, but the english aims the cue ball back into the rail.) Also
practice shots where the cue ball is frozen to an object ball and you need
to shoot over the object ball to hit the cue ball. (Hint; aim level, then
bring your cue stick straight up to hit the cue ball. Don't aim with your
cue stick up in the air.)
For combo shots, start with two object balls near a pocket. Then move the
two further and further away from the pocket. Next move the two balls
further and further away from each other. The hardest shot is cross corner
with equal distance between the pocket, first object ball, second object
ball, and cue ball which is near opposite corner (almost impossible for
me). Next; try three object ball combo shots.
For carom shots, play a game of 15 balls where every shot must be a carom
off of the cue ball. (Shoot at the object balls rather than the cue ball.)
So shoot an object ball at the cue ball and try to get it to carom off into
a pocket. Move the cue ball back to the center of the table as needed.
In general, keep track of the shots you are bad at. Then do nothing but
those shots, with any variation you can think of. It is OK to miss every
single shot. Believe it or not, missing everything actually helps you
learn. Keep practicing the difficult stuff each week. After three weeks,
you will be amazed when you start making shots you missed every time
before!
Also get several different books and practice using the suggested practice
shots. I have found a good variety of pool books from several different
sources: New book stores, billiard sales companies, pool halls, used book
stores, and the internet. My favorite books: The Science of Pocket
Billiards (Koehler), Precision Pool (Kanov), and Play your Best Pool
(Capelle).
Steve Ellis
>
>I apologize ahead of time as I assume this question has been asked and
>answered before, but maybe there are some new books out there that
>make the topic more current (then again, maybe not).
No you're right it's been asked and answered many times. If you go to google and do a
search you'll find some threads on it. To save you some time my opinion is that the first
books should probably be Brynes Book (Vol 1 and Vol 2) and Phil Capelle's book "Play Your
Best Pool". They cover from the fundamentals to more advanced topics and have a fair
number of drills.
Steve.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bill
>Arlington, VA
Raveloman
>I'm fairly new to the game (playing about a year) and while the topic
>of instructional books is on the table, I was wondering if anyone
>could recommend a good instructional book having a reasonable number
>of drills
<snip>
The book you want is "Black Belt Billiards" by Steven W. Campana BCA
Instructor.
The drills are divided into White, Yellow, Orange, Red, Blue, Green, Purple,
1st 2nd and 3rd Brown, and Black 'Belts'. This book is spiral bound so you can
take it anywhere and lay it flat. On the left page is the instructional text
and on the right a clear,and precise full page diagram which includes the
extensions or variations of a given drill and the proficiency requirements for
said drill.
In addition the author provides a summary of Alan Hopkins' Q-Skill Rating
System and Rules and a chart you can copy to keep track of your progress.
http:www.members.aol.com/blkbeltbilliards
Jerry R.
weedwacker
Thank you very much for your detailed response! I really appreciate
it! I have printed it out for reference, as it has some great ideas
for a structured practice plan. I really think a plan like the one
you discussed with focus (i.e., focus on one or two types of shots
during a session) and repetition (especially shots that are found
difficult) will increase my confidence and comfort level with
different shots.
Thanks again!
Raveloman
Anthony Lander
> BTW, I got Robert Byrne's new book of 350 shots for Christmas and
> I'm working through it. I've already learned a couple of new shots
> and I'm only on page 50.
Can you manage shot #200, the draw ticky? I've got a pretty solid draw shot,
but I can't make it go from any closer than the 3rd diamond (tried it about
30 times).
grr...frustrating
-anthony
Play4aBuck
Ron Shepard wrote in message ...
>BTW, I got Robert Byrne's new book of 350 shots for Christmas and
>I'm working through it.
I just picked it up today! I took a quick look (5 mins) at it in the book
store and found some material similar to what was covered in "Byrne's New
Standard Book of Pool and Billiards". I hope that in time I find it loaded
with new material, enough to justify the purchase.
I highly recommend "Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards". I
also like "Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards", but I thought
there was too much overlap between the two.
Cheers,
Jim
Play4aBuck
Play4aBuck wrote in message ...
>I hope that in time I find it loaded with new material, enough to justify
the purchase.
>
Well, loaded...hmm...I'm not sure yet it's only been a couple of hours, but
I have found a hand-full of new things that make the book a good investment.
I really like that "Phelan's Follow" on page 114. I hope it works as well
on a real table as it does in VP3. The chapter on Side Pockets is fun too.
Yeah, I'm jumping around. :-)
Cheers,
Jim
Reg
of your investment, let me know, I'm interested.
jazz...@lycos.com (Martin) wrote in message news:<2edb2095.0401...@posting.google.com>...
> Thanks for the report. I ordered one on a whim (bad move apparently)
> and should receive it soon. If it is as horrid as you say I'll offer
> to sell the thing cheap. Its a real shame that the author would try
> to bilk the billiard community that way. Where are her ethics?
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Patrick Johnson <patrick...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<100bspi...@news.supernews.com>...
> > http://www.billiardsworkbook.com/
> >
> > I got this thing in the mail today (a couple of days late after paying
> > for fast delivery) and have only skimmed through it, but that's enough
> > to know that it's not worth anything near $150 -- it may not be worth
> > much at all.
> >
> > The VAST majority of the "over 1,000 drills" are duplicates of the same
> > shot setup at different distances. I doubt that there are 50 distinct
> > "drills" -- really just setup practice shots that you could easily dream
> > up yourself, and definitely don't need full page diagrams to understand.
> >
> > If you like unimaginative, tedious, repetitious practice shots, need ten
> > pounds of diagrams to show you all the possible cue ball and object ball
> > positions and have $150 you don't like, then you might like this albatross.
> >
> > I'll probably keep the 50 pages that aren't filler, throw away the rest,
> > and never look at the 50 pages again either.
> >
> > By the way, it wasn't my money so I'm not upset about that, although
> > anybody who buys this should be.
> >
> > Pat Johnson
> > Chicago
Ron Shepard
Anthony Lander <anthony...@e-x-c-i-t-e.com> wrote:
> > BTW, I got Robert Byrne's new book of 350 shots for Christmas and
> > I'm working through it. I've already learned a couple of new shots
> > and I'm only on page 50.
>
> Can you manage shot #200, the draw ticky? I've got a pretty solid draw shot,
> but I can't make it go from any closer than the 3rd diamond (tried it about
> 30 times).
I set it up at the second diamond, and it took me 10 or 12 tries,
but I finally pocketed the 9-ball. What exactly stops you from
making it? If the cue ball hits the end cushion, then try hitting
the object ball thicker after the first cushion. If the cue ball
slides across table and hits the long cushion on the other side,
then hit the object ball thinner after the first cushion. If the
cue ball goes toward the 9-ball but doesn't make it all the way
across table, then shoot harder. On my table, I need to shoot a
little harder than a lag shot to get the cue ball all the way to the
9-ball, so this is not a power draw shot.
The cue ball does curve on its way to the 9-ball, so on fast cloth
this limits how close the object ball can be to the end cushion. I
think I could get down to about 1.5 diamonds from the end cushion on
my table; closer than that and the cue ball will always hit the end
cushion while it is still curving.
BTW, you can get the same cue ball action by hitting the object ball
first (i.e. the cue ball hits the object ball a little thinner than
a half-ball hit, then hits the side cushion, and then curves across
table into the 9-ball). I think this is more accurate, so given a
clear shot at the object ball, this is the way I would play that
shot in an actual 9-ball game. Of course, if I were snookered on
the object ball, then the ticky would be the only shot option.
Also, you could simply kick or bank the object ball into the 9-ball,
but there are some tactical advantages to playing the 9-ball with
the cue ball instead of the object ball. And if you need the curve
on the cue ball in order to avoid obstacles, then you need to use
one of the two shots that have the cue ball curve.
I would guess that this would always be a low-percentage shot for
me. Maybe with some practice I could get from my current <10% up to
20% or something, but I can't imagine walking up to a table with
somewhat random positions of the cue ball and object ball and
expecting to make that shot over half the time.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Patrick Johnson
> I would guess that this would always be a low-percentage shot for
> me.
I have this book too, and that's the basic problem I have with it. Its
subtitle is "350 Moves Every Player Should Know", but too many of them
are shots you'd hardly ever really try. I wonder how many "moves" there
really are that "every player should know".
All the shots are fun to try, though...
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Anthony Lander
>> Can you manage shot #200, the draw ticky?
>
> I set it up at the second diamond, and it took me 10 or 12 tries,
> but I finally pocketed the 9-ball. What exactly stops you from
> making it?
Got it. I was hitting it both too hard, and too thin. All of the ticky shots
he lists go on a softer hit than I would have expected from looking at the
diagrams.
Guess I got my money's worth already :)
> I can't imagine walking up to a table with
> somewhat random positions of the cue ball and object ball and
> expecting to make that shot over half the time.
Indeed. I consider shots like these to be puzzle shots. It's fun to figure
out how to make them go. Working them makes me try shots I don't normally
play, and I usually learn something from it. The draw ticky and the
leftmost clearance shot in diagram 258, for example...
-anthony
Billy
Pat takes a shot with:
> I have this book too, and that's the basic problem I have with it. Its
> subtitle is "350 Moves Every Player Should Know", but too many of them
> are shots you'd hardly ever really try. I wonder how many "moves" there
> really are that "every player should know".
Not many, I don't think. There were more in his Standard Book of Pool
and Billiards, and there are quite a number in 101 Big Pool Shots,
Play Your Best Pool (secrets to winning 8-ball and 9-ball), Play Your
Best Nine Ball, and 99 Critical Shots of Pool. I wasn't crazy about
this book or Advanced Techniques in Pool and Billiards by Byrne.
.................Billy
Frank Glenn
@comcast.ash.giganews.com>, ron-s...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
:|:It sounds like this "workbook" serves the same sort of purpose as
:|:do you think is the most effective?
I have not seen this book, but I do have (and have used) Target Pool.
This is a good game to play for people of different skills. I used it
with my children when they were home. I got one chance and they got 2
(or 3, or 4...) to make it fair. I learned a lot, and so did they. It
is a very good teaching tool. It makes drills almost fun!
Frank