cue tips, hard vs. soft, pros and cons.

[Mike A.]

I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
easier to make straight and cut shots with it.

What's your take?

[Patrick Johnson]

My take is that it's a tradeoff between durability (the "pro" of harder
tips) and more forgiving hits (the "pro" of softer tips). The reason
for this, I'd guess, is that softer tips, because of their greater
compressibility, maintain a longer and larger-area contact with the cue
ball, increasing traction.

I suspect that harder tips also deliver more of your stroke power to the
cue ball (if you don't miscue).

I like Moori mediums. Durable, but forgiving enough and shape/scuff
well.

I have no idea why you'd find it easier to make straight and cut shots
with a firmer tip. By the way, what's left after straight and cut
shots?

Pat Johnson
Chicago

[Richard Iachetta]

In article <3626F5...@nowhere.com>, Mi...@nowhere.com says...

> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?
>

The Mis advocates using a hard tip in his book -- in fact he says "the
harder the better" both for reasons of accuracy and better spin action. Is
there any kind of consensus among the pros on tips, i.e. does anyone know
of pros who prefer to use soft tips?

--
Rich Iachetta
iach...@us.ibm.com
I do not speak for IBM.

[CueWarrior]

>The Mis advocates using a hard tip in his book -- in fact he says "the
>harder the better" both for reasons of accuracy and better spin action. Is
>there any kind of consensus among the pros on tips, i.e. does anyone know
>of pros who prefer to use soft tips?
>
>

I have read and watched a great deal of the "Mis" books and things. I have
found nothing but Mis-ery in them. I haven't found a single thing I could use.

[wamiller]

I use a Le-Pro medium. I have no idea if I would like a harder or
softer tip. I bought a box of 50 over a year ago. ($25) After selling
ten to Bev Parks, and re-tipping two cues, I still have 38 tips in the
box.
Do I need to be concerned over tip durability?

[Ken Bour]

I am also interested in this thread. After giving up on Moori "MX" (which I
liked a lot) due to their high sticker price and unavailability, I recently
tried TAD Hard tips (two layer) but found them way too hard and difficult to
hold chalk. I switched to Chandivert Champions based on a recommendation in
RSB and like the playability much better although they mushroom easily and
require frequent side trimming. One relatively new Champion tip just
separated from its backing and had to be replaced! I have also experimented
with Chandivert Rocky's which I found to be softer than the Champions (bad
batch?).

My next attempt is going to be Triangle based on their use by several top
cuemakers.

What I don't have a handle on is whether these different tips had any
appreciable effect on ny shot-making, e.g. draw or spin. The fact that I
can't report any noticeable differences doesn't mean that there are none, of
course.

--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour

Mike A. wrote in message <3626F5...@nowhere.com>...

[AL11KIDS]

Hmm, you say you use a LePro "medium" tip?
I didn't know they sold them that way,, Although I do like them and the price
is right,, there seem to be 3 types in a box..1. med- hard ones,2. those that
start off hard and then go mushey,3. and those that are mush from the start! I
also tried a TAD tip and found it very good.long lasting, does not mushroom,
they come in Med and hard, good price, but becoming hard to find now also..
Al in Redding
hotxxxxxx

[Zozzl]

This cuemaker's opinion is that personal preferences regarding general play of
the tip is more important to the player than the comparative hardness of the
tip. I put le pros on my pool cues and elk masters on my billiard cues, unless
the customer has a different preference. I play with triangles on my own pool
cue and mori soft on my billiard cue. For pool, where I generally want less
english that in billiards, I want a harder tip. For billiards, I want maximum
english, so the softest tip with reasonable durability is the choice.
Ron Kilby, Kilby Kues (zo...@aol.com)

[CSmith4738]

>My next attempt is going to be Triangle

Try a Hercules med. or hard. I have put several on here in the Pac. NW. The
response from consumers has been tremendous. Out of about 20 installations, no
complaints and only one has "slightly" mushroomed.

It's a layered tip, but the construction makes it far different from any other
layered tip. One thing that I really do like about it..........with most
layered tips, the edge looks horrible. With these, the edge looks slightly
different than a single hide tip.

If you want to know more....E-Mail me.

Clark
Clark Custom Cues
Tacoma, WA

[Ken Bour]

Clark:

A friend is using the Hercules, but he also mentioned that they are hard to
come by. Apparently, the Adams company will only sell to cuemakers (or
repair shops) and most, if not all, will not sell the tips directly to
consumers for self-installation. My friend said he persevered and finally
sweet-talked a repair shop into selling a few, but he doubts that he can do
it again...

I would love to try them out, assuming they can be had a reasonable price --
unlike the Moori's. Are you selling them by any chance?

--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour

CSmith4738 wrote in message <19981018174318...@ng126.aol.com>...

[Dave Hall]

Pete Samaris of Baltimore uses a soft tip. He is currently
teaching, but was a top player in his past. His stroke is an
amazing thing to watch.
Most players I know us a harder tip,
I like a hard tip, it is easier to maintanin and seems to be more
consistant.
But- I can't match pete's cueball action with any tip.
Dave

[sab.b...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

I think the kamui ss is more accurate and forgivable than a hard tip. experiment done ,I set up cueball in jaws and object ball in center table straight in to corner .I shot 20 shots with a triangle (hard tip) and made about 3.went to billiard shop and put on a la pro (softer tip) went back to same place and table and repeated 20 shots and pocketed 16 out of 20.

[sab.b...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

the kamui ss soft is next to the old moori medium ,but I miss cue with it alot.any one know what other tip may be similar that doesn't miss cue as much?

[John Disque]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

30 years ago you didn't have much choice in tip-brand. Today the market has been flooded with Asian manufacturers supposedly offering high-tech gadgets guaranteed to improve your game. I'm afraid most of it is just good marketing and over-hype.

As a kid I played "off the wall" and every house-cue in my region had a cheap Elk Master soft tip. Whether it's true or not - they seemed to grab the cueball, allow for more draw and less effort when applying English. This equated to more confidence in my stroke and less concern with miscues, etc..

Over the years I have tried many of the newer tips and never found the same level of confidence so I keep returning to the old cheap Elk Masters.

I'm not the only one to say this... A handful of pros, including Corey Deuel, refuse to use anything else

[1goodbla...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

Agree with exactly what you just described. A softer tip will allow more English at lower speeds allowing for more control. A harder tip puts less spin on the ball giving a more direct (straight hit). However, I have learned as your stroke gets better your game overall wil be better with a softer tip. Competition pool is not always about making shots but about cue ball speed and position (defense). I believe this is easier accomplished with a softer tip.

[1goodbla...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, October 17, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Ken Bour wrote:
> I am also interested in this thread. After giving up on Moori "MX" (which I
> liked a lot) due to their high sticker price and unavailability, I recently
> tried TAD Hard tips (two layer) but found them way too hard and difficult to
> hold chalk. I switched to Chandivert Champions based on a recommendation in
> RSB and like the playability much better although they mushroom easily and
> require frequent side trimming. One relatively new Champion tip just
> separated from its backing and had to be replaced! I have also experimented
> with Chandivert Rocky's which I found to be softer than the Champions (bad
> batch?).
>
> My next attempt is going to be Triangle based on their use by several top
> cuemakers.
>
> What I don't have a handle on is whether these different tips had any
> appreciable effect on ny shot-making, e.g. draw or spin. The fact that I
> can't report any noticeable differences doesn't mean that there are none, of
> course.
>

> --
> Ken Bour
> Sterling, VA
> http://www.erols.com/kbour
>
>

> Mike A. wrote in message <3626F5...@nowhere.com>...

> >I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> >My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> >with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> >easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
> >
> >What's your take?

I would try SIB Pro and SIB Medium. I am told they emulate Moori

[chris...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mike A. wrote:

> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

anybody DO THE MATH? or have educated material on this? NOPE... where here's some.

***** Tip hardness (in a typical range) has no practical effect on CB deflection (squirt), per the info below. Only feel matters: SOURCE: http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#hardness


Many brands are just marketed;
https://www.pooldawg.com/article/pooldawg-library/the-ultimate-pool-cue-tip-guide

here they have tested all tip hardness with a durometer;

now Colorado State did some testing:

showing in Slow Motion; close-ups of cue tip impact for various hardness tips and various speeds. Here are some conclusions:

1. most contact times (i.e., for most tips and most speeds) are very close to a thousandth of a second (0.001 sec).
2. a soft tip at slow speed has a longer contact time (about 0.002 sec), but still extremely small.
3. a very hard tip (e.g., phenolic) at fast speed has a shorter contact time (about 0.0005 sec).
4. the contact time decreases slightly for faster speeds, but not by much.
chalk does not stay on tips (especially hard tips) very well at impact
5. Some people think that what they do with their grip hand or follow through can change the tip contact time, but this is not the case (i.e., it is not possible to get a significant effect).

...type or brand of chalk was proven not to matter, you just chalk more often with the cheap stuff, and by more often about every 2-3 shots.

[Bill]

The "cheap chalk" feels awful to apply--so it matters.

[Jack]

On 1/10/2018 6:09 PM, chris...@gmail.com wrote:

> now Colorado State did some testing:
>
> showing in Slow Motion; close-ups of cue tip impact for various hardness tips and various speeds. Here are some conclusions:
>
> 1. most contact times (i.e., for most tips and most speeds) are very close to a thousandth of a second (0.001 sec).
> 2. a soft tip at slow speed has a longer contact time (about 0.002 sec), but still extremely small.
> 3. a very hard tip (e.g., phenolic) at fast speed has a shorter contact time (about 0.0005 sec).
> 4. the contact time decreases slightly for faster speeds, but not by much.
> chalk does not stay on tips (especially hard tips) very well at impact
> 5. Some people think that what they do with their grip hand or follow through can change the tip contact time, but this is not the case (i.e., it is not possible to get a significant effect).
>
> ...type or brand of chalk was proven not to matter, you just chalk more often with the cheap stuff, and by more often about every 2-3 shots.

Chalk is the only thing that touches the CB. Chalk matters big time. I
will only use Silver Cup or Masters. I prefer Silver because it's a bit
coarser and seems to rough up the tip slightly. I NEVER touch my tip
with anything other than chalk after initial shaping. Tips don't seem
to matter at all. I've used hard tips and soft tips with no noticeable
difference.

Tips should be chalked before every shot as part of the PSR, period, no
exceptions. Extra care needs taken when shooting with more than a touch
of spin. Whomever 'proved' that chalk doesn't matter is a fool. I
put NTC chalk out hoping my opponent will use it. It's known as cheating...

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

[Persh83]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

It does not matter to most players. Side english is difficult and I'm guessing the intermediate players won't know the difference. And this is by far most.

[richarda...@gmail.com]

Le vendredi 16 octobre 1998 03:00:00 UTC-4, Mike A. a écrit :

> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

I think that the difference is more after the impact, the white will travel less with a softer tip.

[azseo...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

I tend to like a big soft tip. Have to keep an eye on the shape but O like the feel it gets when hitting the cue ball.

Mark
Plaza Services llc

[nashville-...@pages.plusgoogle.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

Here is a similar discussion on hard vs. medium vs. soft cue tips - advantages and disadvantages. Billiards Forum:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=28472
Thought you all would be interested in current thoughts.

L. Chapman
www.lisachapman.com
www.lionheartseo.com
on behalf of my client;
www.nashvillebilliard.com/products/franklin-brentwood-murfreesboro/pool-tables/

[jnoe...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Mike A. wrote:
> I would like to see some opinions on hard cue tips versus soft.
> My wife uses a soft tip and it seems easier to provide smooth english
> with her cue. My cue has a significantly firmer tip and I find it
> easier to make straight and cut shots with it.
>
> What's your take?

Ah, yes, the never ending, age old soft tip vs hard tip debate. In my opinion a soft tip will be a better choice (for the most part) if the player is a beginner or intermediate level player with one very important caveat: Any soft tip a player uses won't be soft for long. With use it turns into a medium to hard tip in short order due to the fact that every time the cue ball is hit the soft tip compresses turning into - (not a soft tip anymore). Soft tips need to be replaced much sooner than harder tips because they lose their shape more quickly and need constant attention. As the soft tip becomes harder and harder through use it needs less and less attention but by then you've lost most of the tip and it will need to be replaced. In the end each player makes a personal choice about which tip they like best. Soft, medium, or hard, all are viable choices.