Worst playing cue in the $1,000.00 range
JoeyA
making custom cues in this price range who make poor playing/hitting cues?
Everyone is always talking about how good this cue is and why this cue maker
is the best and what makes him the best in a particular area. Let's talk
about the worst (at least in the thousand dollar range). Who are they and
why don't their cues play well? Why are they still selling poor playing
cues? And who is stupid enough to continue buying their poor playing cues.
Let's get these wannabee master craftsmen & women out of the closet and
under the light.
JoeyA
John Smith
fry makes a pathetically bad cue. There are some high end meucci cues that
are just as crappy as their low end. I personally am not terribly fond of
the way joss east cues hit. Samsara cues don't hit very well, but god they
look great.
"JoeyA" <agu...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:ePK06.39342$ja.69...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
Fred Agnir
John Smith wrote in message <3a4386ca$1...@news.iglou.com>...
>Bludworth Cues are absolute crap for the money.
Just be sure you know which Bludworth Cue you are talking about. I've only
hit with a few Leonard Bludworth Cues, and they hit wonderfully.
Fred
John Smith
better than a mcdermott, plus his designs were cheesy.
"Fred Agnir" <oha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eKL06.1105$G4.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Murray Tucker III
--
Murray Tucker III
i...@tuckerbilt.com
www.tuckerbilt.com/iii
John Smith <no...@bleh.com> wrote in message
news:3a439...@news.iglou.com...
Louis Simoni
I was just gonna say that. :-D
-louis
John Smith
I had the 2nd one as a break cue.
the third was a cue that I just kinda had sitting around for when I went to
"shady" places and I didn't want to bring my main cue.
"Murray Tucker III" <i...@tuckerbilt.com> wrote in message
news:t477ju6...@corp.supernews.com...
Louis Simoni
great balance, and a fine sound. Whenever I get a digital camera, I'll post
some pics of my dilly. :)
-louis
Matt Armstrong
the same feel for 1/ the price. I hated it. Ugh. Looked great though. Second
worse and I am going to get flamed for this. Espiritu. I lie, early
Espiritu's. I am told his new cues hit better but most the ones I have
played with are from the early '90s. They don't play awful but the points
aren't even. I have heard of a few having problems with the butts warping
(how the hell is that possible?). Espiritu lives about an hour from me so I
see him at the local leagues and see alot of his cues. He is a real nice guy
by the way. Most of the new ones I see are looking much better but stay away
from his early work.
Matta
"JoeyA" <agu...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:ePK06.39342$ja.69...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
John Collins
"JoeyA" <agu...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:ePK06.39342$ja.69...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
I can't hold it in anymore!!!!!!!!!! Aaarrgh!
I finally got the chance to see Arnot's latest work up close and personal.
The cues hit pretty good, not spectacular in my opinion, not Josswest or
Southwest caliber but decent.
Craftsmanship - POOR! I am sorry but this guy has no business even
attempting to enter into discussions on how a cue should be built with
established cuemakers.
The prices are way out of line in relation to the craftsmanship and the
design in comparison to many other recognized custom cuemakers out there.
$1500 retail for a basic 4 point where NONE of the points are close to being
at an even height. 4 tiny diamonds in the buttpiece that may or may not be
ivory.
Out of six cues I can testify that all of Arnot's shafts do NOT match all of
the butts as strenuously claimed on the website www.arnotq.net
The finish on several cues was uneven, dull and chipped. The ringwork was
not flush wtih the rest of the cue on several cues.
Arnot Wadsworth, after all the grief and harassment you have propogated
over the last few years, and after all your claims of cuemaking superiority
it is my opinion that your cues cetainly do not reflect your stated
philosophies. I wish they they did but they don't. In my opinion you are
not even close to the same leaugue as Jerry Pechauer or any cuemaker who is
a member of the American Cuemakers Association. Your cues, as I have seen
them recently, would not be good enough for a membership into the ACA. You
have stated that you do not care to be a member of the ACA and that is
certainly your right.
I state here publicly that as a consumer and as an experienced dealer in
cues that it is my firm opinion that your cues are overpriced, that the
actual quality does not meet the standards which you set forth on your own
website, that they do not meet the minimum standards set by established
cuemakers. I consider sale of these cues at the prices you have set to be
the equivalent of a ripoff.
Sincerely,
John Collins
Instroke Sports
>
Stikapos
Its real easy for a butt to move. In case you didn't know, wood moves.
That's the truth. And it doesnt matter how good the cuemaker. Check some early
Szamboti's and I'll bet they have some runout in the butt. Old glue and wood is
bound to move over time. My vote for most horrible expensive cue would have to
go to (for choice of shaft wood only) Pfd cues. The butts are a real work of
art, but what you buy in the butt is wasted in the shaft. But then again,
Paul, like David Kersenbrock, is into the art thing. And they are gorgeous.
And well made. I just wouldn't play with one. In fact, there really isnt any
cored cue I'd play with, except a Black Boar cause Tony invented it. Other
than that, give me a Joss West radial pinned ivory flat face cue. Aside from a
Kikel or a Boar, its probably the best playing cue on the planet.
timmy b.
Paula Gomolka
<inst...@instroke.com> wrote:
WOW! John, why dontcha tell us how you REALLY feel 'bout those ARE NOT
cues!!! ROTFLMAO!
Merry Christmas!
(Form the guy that got your Raschig's).....<G>
lfigueroa
JC chainsaws Arnot's workmanship
I think I'll go make some popcorn for this one.
Lou Figueroa
"John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote in message
news:TJO06.852$yU1.2...@news.uswest.net...
John Collins
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:RMP06.1161$oy3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote:
>
> JC chainsaws Arnot's workmanship
>
> I think I'll go make some popcorn for this one.
>
> Lou Figueroa
>
He chainsawed his own. I bet he won't even respond. I felt inwardly sick
when I realized how an unsuspecting person had been taken in by this guy's
hype. I hope he does the honorable thing and really backs up his guarantee.
The buyer probably won't insist on being able to return the cues because of
their honor. Arnot should admit that his cues are flawed and offer to fix
them as best as he can.
I forgot to mention that the wraps are all lumpy. Experienced cuemakers are
generally beyond that problem.
John
John Smith
nothing special and the craftsmanship wasn't spectacular. However, he does
make a pretty nice break cue...but the break cue reminds me an awful lot of
a Mace.news:KlQ06.1118$yU1.3...@news.uswest.net...
MarkO
Mark0 <--believes JC
"John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote in message
news:TJO06.852$yU1.2...@news.uswest.net...
>
MarkO
Mark0
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:RMP06.1161$oy3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
frank howe
beautiful
cues but I just dont like the hit. A friend bought from him when he was
just starting to get cues out
and he tried to get rid of a lot of "seconds". I like the cue makers that
put out very
consistent products. I also owned a $2000 Dale Perry and it had a great
design and looked great but played really bad. It could have been just that
cue but
I didnt care for it. Anyone ever played with Murray Tucker's cues? Just
curious
frank howe
Matt Armstrong <ma...@nospam.netdoor.com> wrote in message
news:kkO06.121284$IP1.4...@news1.giganews.com...
Ken Bour
Arnot break cue that I had received over 2 years ago (and sent it back for a
full refund), Arnot went on an attack rampage that lasted for months. If
he's still breathing, you'll hear from him.
It is surprising to me that the production quality and craftsmanship haven't
improved in all this time.
Ken Bour
"John Collins" <inst...@instroke.com> wrote in message
news:TJO06.852$yU1.2...@news.uswest.net...
>
Bert M.
>Extra butter on mine Lou
>
>Mark0
>
Can we make two batches? One with salt and one without? In fact, make 4
batches, because this might get real interesting.
Bert M <-- C=:-)
Earl Timmons
with the following, joss west, richard black and phillippi and all have
played great. I did have a bludworth and did not like the hit but I am not
sure who made it.
John Smith wrote in message <3a439...@news.iglou.com>...
Louis Simoni
> batches, because this might get real interesting.
> Bert M <-- C=:-)
Hey, you're the resident chef...make us something better than POPCORN!
-louis
EZ2H8
to balance out all the salty stuff in this thread...
If not, double the butter on mine and pass the Coke.
I have my seat...Role the film..
ez.
Bert M.
>
>Hey, you're the resident chef...make us something better than POPCORN!
>
Whats better with a movie than popcorn?
Stikapos
While your comment is certainly welcome, its a little out of place here. I
cant remember the last time I saw a szambot, black, philli or a jw that was
under a grand. Let me rephrase your comment for you....."Gee, I've played with
the four greatest cues on the planet and they hit great!" Now either get your
popcorn and watch the show like everyone else or come up with some dirt to
contribute. You'll just have to do much better next time, or you'll never
write another soap opera again!
(yes, I'm LMAO...its tongue in cheek...and I'm breathing though the side of my
face!)
merry christmas to all
timmy b.
whoda
OK OK OK - This stuff has gone far enough. There is way too much BS
about things not Billiards related. Since Pat won't do it, I will,
PLEASE KEEP THE NON-BILLIARDS STUFF OFF OF THIS BOARD.
NO MORE COOKING CLASS OR MOVIE TALK.
THANK YOU,
Whoda
In article <20001223073402...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
--
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Dick Moecia
rid of the stick and shoots lights out pool now (lol)!
John Smith writes:
"I won the first one in a match against a guy who couldn't pay."
Dick Moecia, fka poolcue
http://ourworld.cs.com/poolhalloffame
bludworth
I would like to clear up rumors about my cues, [leonard bludworth cues
].
I have worked very hard to over come donald bludworth's VERY BAD
reputation. It's hard to do.However we try.
As far as my cues,no cue maker can or will ever break my record for the
amount of pro's using my cues at the same time. I had the most popular
cue in the states at that time. Then i got pissed at donald and sold
out to him and i guess you folks know the rest of the story.
I couldn't pay some sort of fee to the players. Hell at that time , i
could barley make ends meet. Well i had 17 major world class players
playing with my cues and i never paid a penny to any of them that
played with my great cues for over a 4 1/2 year period. Names like
BUDDY HALL, JIM MATAYA, BUDDY DENNIS, C,J,WHILEY, BELINDA BERDON, MARY
KENNINSTON, GRADY MATHEWS,DAVID MATLOCK, hell the list is just to long
to write out, typing one finger at a time.
It's strange that out of all the knocks on BLUDWORTH cues and others, I
SEE NO PROS, NAMES knocking anyones cues.I'm sorry if some of you folks
got stuck with a donald bludworth cue.
MAYBE you should try one of mine.
It's not easy building cues. I, like many other cue makers can't make
every player happy. but this cue maker sure trys.
If you would like to speak to me call me @ 830-232-5991 or e-mail me -
pool...@sig.net
BY THE WAY<<< I DON"T BUILD PRODUCTION CUES>>>>
thanks for your time
god bless
leonard bludworth
Stikapos
christmas. Good will towards all men, and like that. If this NG wants to have
a little fun with a topic every once in a while, especially at this time of the
year, so be it. Now please go back to sleep.
Murray Tucker III
lurker here and maybe he will de-lurk and give you some feedback.
--
Murray Tucker III
i...@tuckerbilt.com
www.tuckerbilt.com/iii
frank howe <gf...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:64T06.1649$oy3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
SHVNC
""
Cold beer, and a batch of nachos and some hot homemade salsa!
John Smith
Kentucky in 1995 at the Continental Inn (lexington all-stars tournament).
About 2 months later the cue had warped. I contacted you via phone and
email (i think) to no avail. I have never owned a Bludworth that was made
by your son, but have played with them. I must agree that I do like your
cues better, but I'm not overly impressed with them.
You don't make production cues, I understand that, but keep in mind that
relatively speaking you produce a high amount of cues for a custom cue
maker.
"bludworth" <blud...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:922cq4$5u8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Otto
"SHVNC" <sh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001223113120...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
> ""Whats better with a movie than popcorn?
> ""
>
> Cold beer, and a batch of nachos and some hot homemade salsa!
I agree. Wear a Depend so you don't have to miss any of the movie. Always
follow the super hot salsa(the best kind--brow sweating hot--lip
swelling--mouth burning hot) with a large bowl of vanilla ice cream.
Kirkland brand vanilla from Costco is the best ice cream I have ever
had--bar none.
Otto
Pool---------------------------------------------just staying on topic to
keep the cops off my back
Ron Hudson
If you have a cue in the $1,000 (or any other) price range that you don't like,
don't whine about it and risk insult to others. Just send it to me and I will
see that it is disposed of properly in an environmentally-safe method without
hurting anyone's feelings.
email for shipping address.
Ron
Otto
"Ron Hudson" <R...@LocalPool.com> wrote in message
news:17r94t86a9b4t67o6...@4ax.com...
Ron,
I have several of them.
They are in the mail.
Merry Christmas.
Otto
Bert M.
>SHVNC opined>"
>Cold beer, and a batch of nachos and some hot homemade salsa!
>
Good for a football game, but not a movie. Takes too much of my attention away
from the movie
>I agree. Wear a Depend so you don't have to miss any of the movie. Always
>follow the super hot salsa(the best kind--brow sweating hot--lip
>swelling--mouth burning hot) with a large bowl of vanilla ice cream.
>Kirkland brand vanilla from Costco is the best ice cream I have ever
>had--bar none.
You should try my habenero pure salsa Otto. It's guaranteed to make grown men
cry. As far as the ice cream goes, I find it hard to beleive that, but hell, I
bet you've never had a boutique ice cream. I personally make a Jack Daniels
chocolate ice cream thats so damn good, it refuses to solidify fully.
whoda
WHODA (Who makes the Bud Light Cues anyway? Arnot Wadsworth?
Bludworth?)
In article <20001223102040...@ng-mk1.aol.com>,
--
whoda
Discussion". I'll let you go this time but watch out fella.
Whoda( Really wants a Bud Light Cue)
In article <m3516.2746$bU.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
SHVNC
men
cry. ""
My current batch of salsa has:
1) 3 habaneros
2) 3 Cayennes
3) 2 banana peppers
4) a handful of little chipotle peppers
5) 1 Anaheim
Bradley E. Robertson
"whoda" is Mike Vaughn. That's my guess.
Brad
Bert M.
>
>My current batch of salsa has:
>1) 3 habaneros
>2) 3 Cayennes
>3) 2 banana peppers
>4) a handful of little chipotle peppers
>5) 1 Anaheim
>
Now try replacing all of them with habenero only, Stew them for about an out
with some onion and garlic. Add this mixture, when cooled, to the normal amout
of tomato, and throw in a couple of chopped habenero for some texture, Yours
sounds a lot like my chili.
Bert M.
Mine too. he seems mighty familiar with the personalities in here for so
recent a poster
.>
>"whoda" is Mike Vaughn. That's my guess.
>
>Brad
>
>
SHVNC
huh?
Raveloman
movements. Nice visual
>huh?
>
You want real flame? Like white phosphorus and napalm? Forget the Habanero!
Here's some info I found for you. ( And yes I have tried it! )
There have been many erroneous claims that Habanero is the world's hottest
pepper, but that title actually belongs to the Bird Peppers, the wild forms of
Capsicum annuum.
There are dozens of varieties of Bird Peppers known throughout the world.
The best known Bird Pepper variety in the United States is:
TEPIN= Chiltecpin, Chiltepin, Chile mosquito, Chile de pajaro, Chile silvestre
or Tecpintle.
The world's hottest pepper, collected from wild stands that grow in the
mountains of northern Mexico and southern Arizona. Pods are round, 1/4" across,
turns red when ripe. One ounce of this dried pepper with seeds removed will
produce a detectable hotness in 30,000-50,000 ounces (over 300 gallons) of
salsa!
Talk about flaming bowels! :- 0
Jerry
BOBJNES
thats great that we have food, but whos bringing the WOMEN? Nothing like having
a woman with you to watch a good movie.
Tony K.
Paula Gomolka
<stik...@aol.com> wrote:
Please....please....please tell me that you don't think Black and
Phillippi are among the "four greatest cues on the planet'!
ROTFLMAO!!!
Bert M.
Jerry, Im not sure where your info is from, but do you have the raw scale
numbers for this (I forget what the scale is called). The bird chile is indeed
among the hottest, but I think it usually refers to the Thai variety, and not
the "Mexican" variety. the habenero has always had the highest raw scores on
the scale, so i would be interested to see how tehy compare.
>
>There have been many erroneous claims that Habanero is the world's hottest
>pepper, but that title actually belongs to the Bird Peppers, the wild forms
>of
>Capsicum annuum.
>
>There are dozens of varieties of Bird Peppers known throughout the world.
>The best known Bird Pepper variety in the United States is:
>
>TEPIN= Chiltecpin, Chiltepin, Chile mosquito, Chile de pajaro, Chile
>silvestre
>or Tecpintle.
>The world's hottest pepper, collected from wild stands that grow in the
>mountains of northern Mexico and southern Arizona. Pods are round, 1/4"
>across,
>turns red when ripe. One ounce of this dried pepper with seeds removed will
>produce a detectable hotness in 30,000-50,000 ounces (over 300 gallons) of
>salsa!
>
>Talk about flaming bowels! :- 0
>
>Jerry
>
>
>
Bert M.
Tony, can we trust you to this task? Only high class women, ok? Preferably
ones who put out enthusiastically, after the movie
I always did like movie dates <g>
Earl Timmons
stikapos, With the Szamboti, and it was 350 new, the other cues mentioned
can be bought for less than a grand, sorry if you have not seen them but
look on ebay, or maybe you can't read?
Paula Gomolka wrote in message
<231220002140239748%pgom...@earthlink.net>...
Raveloman
raw scale
>numbers for this (I forget what the scale is called
Bert, here is what I could find:
An easy method for determining pepper hotness is Dremann's Pepper Hotness
scale. The numbers indicate that how many ounces of salsa will have a
detectable level of hotness when one ounce of pepper pods are added.
Generally red fresh fruit are 2-3x hotter than green fruit, and dried pods are
usually 2-10x hotter than fresh pods.
f= fresh pods, d=dried pods
25 f ------Anaheim mild
42 f ------Sandia
60 f ------Elephant's Trunk
60 f-------Santa Fe Grande
95 f-------Santo Domingo Pueblo
133 f------Serrano
135 f------Ancho Mexican Large
270 f------Pusa Jwala
380 f------Mexican Negro
400 f------Jalapeno, green regular strain
400 f------Trupti
500 f------Manzano or Rocoto
833 f------Suryamukhi Cluster
1,000 d----Mandi
1,300 d----Guajillo
2,000 d----Dagger Pod
2,000 d----Flame Fountain
2,380 f----Habanero red (including Red Savina) fresh pods
2,857 f----Habanero yellow fresh pods
3,500 d----Aji Brown
3,500 d----Aji Rojo
3,500 d----Aji Yellow
4,000 f----Habanero orange fresh pods
4,762 f----Habanero brown (Hottest of the Habaneros)
5,700 f----Yatsufusa
6,700 d----Thai
7,143 d----Round Indian Chilly
8,000 d----De Arbol
10,000 d---Dhanraj
10,000 d---Habanero orange dried pods
10,000 f---Merah
10,000 f---Red chili
10,000 f---Tabasco
13,300 d---Punjab Small Hot
16,000 d---Japones
20,000 d---Assam
20,000 d---Pequin
25,000 f---Indian PC-1
30,000-50,000 d--Tepin (seeds removed)
Jerry
whoda
Whodahell is Mike Vaughn?
Whodathoughtit is me.
Whoda
Won't someone tell me where I can get a Bud Light Cue? Please!
In article <20001223192143...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
Gary R (Bubba)
That just goes to show you that I have no idea what a good "hit" is.
I've only played with 2 Espiritu cues, one a sort of plain sneaky pete
type and the other one was quite nice a friend bought in Atlanta,
used, a very nice design. Both of those cues hit like a dream. Both
had, nice workmanship. BUT, both were no where near $1000 as is the
subject of this thread.
I don't know if the Espiritu cues I played with are from his early
work or more recent, but I would love to have either one.
-Bubba <-- may buy an Espiritu this year
dha...@cyberweek.com
with a certain uninformed reverence. Says he used to play with Russ
regularly and was known as one of Russ's contacts. Heard from several
of Espiritu's customers who got crooked cues, sent them back and never
heard from Espiritu again.
Louis Simoni
-louis
> OK OK OK - This stuff has gone far enough. There is way too much BS
> about things not Billiards related. Since Pat won't do it, I will,
> PLEASE KEEP THE NON-BILLIARDS STUFF OFF OF THIS BOARD.
>
> NO MORE COOKING CLASS OR MOVIE TALK.
>
> THANK YOU,
>
> Whoda
J Dub
thread.
C'mon Joey, the answer to this is easy, the worst playing cue is the one you
don't like, the best is the one you do. Nobody's the same, so it is
impossible to do anything with this B.S. topic except impugn some people who
are trying very hard to do their best within the realm of their craft.....
and probably kick off a flame war in the process.
--Jim
Matt Armstrong
considering having him make me a sneaky pete style stick. Don't get me
wrong, the craftsmanship in his new cues is unbelievable and they play
pretty good too. I was just talking about the old ones (before '96).
Matta
"Gary R (Bubba)" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:em0b4tsq07jjbpnfr...@4ax.com...
Stikapos
Alright, so there is some artistic license in the commentary for the sake
of comedy....but i'm sure that if someone gave you one by either cuemaker, you
wouldnt refuse it!
timmy b.
Paula Gomolka
<stik...@aol.com> wrote:
You betcha I'd take it! Be tradin that puppy for another at Valley
Forge for sure!......<G>!!!
Dick Moecia
planning to spend their hard-earned money on a new cue. Although I can't image
spending that kind of money on a stick, without having good knowledge of the
hit prior to the purchase. Notwithstanding, Merry Christmas.
J. Dub writes:In the spirit of Christmas, I recommend that everybody PLONK this
entire thread.
Dick Moecia, fka poolcue
http://ourworld.cs.com/poolhalloffame
J Dub
ASP.... especially since it was started as a flame.
I also hate to think that if I had spent years trying to improve my skills
in a craft in which I had reasonable success and recognition, that on the
eve of Christmas that my craft, my livelihood and my reputation could be so
expertly shish-kabob'd.
Heck, even in the MidEast we can have Peace on Earth and Good Will Towards
Men.
--Jim
"Dick Moecia" <poolhal...@cs.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20001224140734...@ng-ct1.news.cs.com...
Poolplayer
complaints on the way his cues play.
Dick Moecia
great about America. Offer a good product and the sales will come. Don't offer
a good product and, well, you getshish-cabob'd. Hey Jim, have a great 2001.
Hope to be able to wack them around with you soon.
Jim Dub writes: "I also hate to think that if I had spent years trying to
improve my skills >in a craft in which I had reasonable success and
recognition, that on the eve of Christmas that my craft, my livelihood and my
reputation could be so expertly shish-kabob'd."
Jimbo Ct
>cored cue I'd play with, except a Black Boar
then he saz: >give me a Joss West
Hey Timmy Bill cores his cues also.
Jim<---Hope this Fred's
Jimbo Ct
>ASP.
That's just not right, if you don't like ASP stay off, but don't make a stupid
comment like this.
J-dub:>I also hate to think that if I had spent years trying to improve my
skills
>in a craft in which I had reasonable success and recognition, that on the
>eve of Christmas that my craft, my livelihood and my reputation could be so
>expertly shish-kabob'd.
Hey Jim the problem with this thread is that hit and feel are a personal thing,
what one person likes another might hate. But the workmanship and quality of
ones work is not, if a cue warps, rings lift, inlays pop out, or if wraps are
bad it's not a good thing, nor is it subjective. The reason for this group is
to share info and thoughts, if someone was on the fence about spending $1000 on
a cue and this can help them avoid trouble why shouldn't it be posted. I have a
problem with the thread because people who spend $1000 want to love the cue
they bought, shit people who spent 100 want to defend the crap they have.
Honesty is a real problem in this case, John Collins has been in and around
pool for many years and has hit with many cues, If he wrote this post I'm sure
he's being honest and trying to help others, why knock a guy for telling the
truth? If more people told the truth instead of kissing the asses of the people
pushing this crap we may have better products being made. The problem with the
cue market today is the emergence of the cheap CNC & software. All of the
sudden anyone who has some money can buy a CNC and start to pump out fancy
cues. This may not seem like a problem to some, the problem is they all want to
charge $1200 for a POS. Guys like R.Black, T. Scruggs, B. Stroud, B. Schick and
E. Gutierrez have paid dues, they have worked with cues for 30 years innovating
and revolutionizing the cue industry, these are the guys who have earned the
right to charge crazy prices for pieces of wood. Not a guy who was bored one
day and decided to buy a lathe and a computer. I've been collecting cues now
for over 12 years and I can remember when cue makers would start out doing
years of repair work before they even ventured into making a sneaky pete, they
paid dues and knew how to make a cue. Now you need a piece of wood and some
knowledge with computer programs and you can pump out a cue with 2500 inlays,
but they can't figure out how to make a cue that hits good or 1 that won't
warp. There are over 500 cuemakers in this country now and I for one would love
to hear some bad things instead of the crappy ass kissing advertisement posts
we get 20 times a week. Who cares if it's Christmas or 4th of July, I'd love to
hear more honest stories about cuemakers I need to stay away from.
Jim <-------Let's stop with the hot peppers and get back to the crappy cues.
DeNile
>Alright, let's unmask these charlatans. Who are the cue makers who are
>making custom cues in this price range who make poor playing/hitting cues?
I've played with 3 and examined several other Jerry Olivier cues. All
had the absolutely crappiest shaftwood extant - like 3-4 grain lines
per inch, and all made a Meucci feel like a Southwest.
Also poor inlay fit on weak designs.
These are the training bras of the cue world. So if any of you have
$1000.00 or more JO cues that you wish to give away, please locate a
facility for troubled young girls and send it there.
Have Fun, Mike
J Dub
Who is the better artist - Monet, Renoir, Van Gogh, Warhol, Neiman? What
aspects of style and texture measure in your evaluation? What made their
work valuable - your evaluation or someone else? What would make their work
something you would want to buy?
While I don't disagree with your points of technical inadequacy, why
should someone who buys a CNC mill be short-shrifted regarding creativity.
What you are paying for is artwork, and the tools and techniques to make
that happen. What you have historically paid for is the craftsmanship that
goes with that, perhaps sacrificing creativity. I recently saw one of the
coolest designs ever on a Viking cue at a local event. I doubt if there is
a craftsman alive who could have duplicated it without a CNC.
Let's take another example. I understand Phil Capelle's new book was done
in 5 months (working some incredible hours) using a computer and word
processor. I believe I was told previous work took over 2 years. Does it
make this book less valuable because he used a computer as opposed to a
typewriter to knock it out faster. Should we have paid less for it?
I don't disagree with the need to identify poor quality work, but the goal
of that dialogue should be to help them make their products better. Most of
the posts common thread was "hits like shit". Sorry, but that is not an
objective evaluation to take back to the cuemaker so that he can work on it.
Yes, if inlays pop up, rings rise above the surface, there are poor quality
finishes, etc., this should be addressed. But I gotta believe that anyone
dropping a grand or more for a cue has the presence of mind to look at all
these things closely...... which is why the proverbial complaint is "hits
like shit". And there probably isn't anybody in this forum who, if thinking
about dropping a $1000+ on a new, custom cue and they weren't very, very
sure about it, wouldn't hesitate to ask for an opinion or two.
Sorry, public lynchings are in poor taste.... ESPECIALLY at Christmas.
--Jim
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001225062950...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Stikapos
I read very well, thank you. Unfortunately, you don't write very well. A
Szamboti may have been $350 new....maybe in the 1970's! Gus is dead and
Barry's low is $2,000 and will take 8 years before it's made. Thus, your
inclusion of a Szambot in this list is purely riduculous. Even the worst
example of a Szambot plain jane will fetch $2,500 these days. And as far as
the other cuemakers go, remember that a plain jane from any one of the other
cuemakers you mentioned are going to go for over $800. Add a few inlays and an
extra shaft and you are over the grand mark, easy. If you are finding cues
from these cuemakers under $1000, either the party needs money badly, the cue
is a plain jane or the cue or it's condition is suspect. And finally, I'd say
that since a good portion of higher end cues DONT result in a sale on ebay
(that's how Johnny Mac gets all his cues from these days), the preliminary
listing price of a cue thereon is not a true indication of fair market value.
Now, having said all that, call john wright and pick up a coker for under a
grand. From what I hear, its a nice cue whose value will only increase (as
long as he stops making them soon).
Even blind squirrels find a nut every once in a while.....
timmy b.
Joseph Van Buren
4 pointer with 2 shafts and ivory ferrules.(These cues were actually cheaper
than equivalent Palmers) Barry is no longer taking orders and with his recent
surgery, the list maybe in double digits. (10 years)
As far as Cokers go, most of what I have seen, they kind of have that
SouthWest feel, and
look to them. But then again, there are alot of cuemakers adopting that look.
Gotta go with
whats popular, you know. There are alot of new cuemakers out there, don't be
afraid to purchase
from one of these guys if you are getting a good deal. You never know what the
future will bring. BUT nothing sucks more than getting one of these cues and in
a few years you can tie a string from the joint screw to the bumper screw and
shoot the shafts across the pool room.
Joe <--- cannot actually comment on the title of this thread LOL bridge burning
and all that :)
Visit www.classiccues.com for a vast selection of collectible cues New
additions weekly. We sneak in lower prices just about every week.Check out the
Olivier cue... Holiday Specials!!!!!!
JoeyA
In fact, a friend and I suggested that the thread would be dead in no time
at all. We REALLY felt that cues that were priced in the $1000 range would
have very little negative response. Boy, were we wrong.
It is nice to have people point out what they don't like about certain cues.
It had been my experience that I haven't seen any $1,000 cues that played
TERRIBLE or that LOOKED HORRIBLE.
Cue making is a craft and some are going to be better than others at making
a cue. I just didn't think that many would respond. I really didn't. And
I especially didn't mean for any of the cue makers to catch heat
"personally". I assumed that the limit of criticism would be that XXX cues
do not have the same precision in points as XXXX cues do, etc. I thought
people might point out a few things that they have perceived in their
purchased thousand dollar cues that shouldn't be there.
As most of you know, I don't enjoy flaming. A little criticism on RSB is
fine but flaming should be done face to face. Some people will be more
frivolous with their written words than their spoken words. Most are a
little more careful about how and to whom we speak negatively. I was
genuinely expecting very little response from this thread just a little
constructive criticism that might improve our lot.
This has been a valuable lesson for me.
I guess one should be careful of what they wish for.
I now wish this thread would go away. :-(
Mea Maxima Culpa.
JoeyA
"J Dub" <removeextr...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:923pf...@news1.newsguy.com...
Smorgass Bored
Lou Figueroa
(*<~ Well, all my popcorn has gone stale. However, I did manage to
salvage all the liquid refreshments. BURP ! excuse me,
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
William H. Rollins
>Sounds tasty. I can just imagine flaming orange bowel movements. Nice visual
>huh?
Habernero's are quite tasty but not all that hot. Guamanium Booney peppers are
much hotter.
Bill Rollins in New Mexico
RWMCT
dots in the but for around $380 or so as late as 1983 (November 17, to be
exact).
RWMCT
under discussion, and I never get tired of hearing reviews of cues, what people
like, what they do not. Nor do I think, in the main, that the postings have
been over the line.
Otto
"William H. Rollins" <nim...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001226210236...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
> Habernero's are quite tasty but not all that hot. Guamanium Booney peppers
are
> much hotter.
And they are Diamond certified. ;>)
Otto--looks forward to meeting Bill at Derby City
Stikapos
And $380 was still a pretty penny in 1983. You do have excellent timing,
that's for sure!
timmy b.
MarkO
to make your own diamonds -- *that's* how hot they are!
Mark0
"Otto" <nospamOtt...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Cte26.6324$bU.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Bert M.
Timmy, talking about great timing. I have a buddy who had a Balabushka on
order at the time of his death. he never did get the stick or his money back.
Would have made a great investment, eh?
Let me guess, your real name is Timothy B. Schmidt , right? <g>
Bert M <-- C=:-)
QuantumDot
bludworth wrote:
>Stuff about his cues.
Leonard made my wife, FREE OF CHARGE, a Blud original, exactly the way she
wanted it as far as wood, weight, balance, taper, joint, and dimension. It
his great, it looks great, and she loves it. One might think a freebie
would compromise quality, but it absolutely does not, and the shaft wood is
of the highest quality, densely grained and unflawed.
Don't knock it till you try it.
PS - Leonard, it is a great three cushion cue as well, Emly reports.
Steve
stik...@my-deja.com
Sorry, don't have the hair (fake or not) that mr. Schmidt has.
funny that pete the cop didnt followup on that open order. But he
really wouldnt have to, But I would have.
timmy b.
In article <20001227073236...@ng-ct1.aol.com>,
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
John Collins
Although you may have had other intentions with this topic it was not out of
line for you to bring it up. It is important to know what you are getting
for the money. There needs to be much more information out there about
billiards products, and especially expensive ones. Consumers need to be
warned about those that practice bad business, produce poor quality just as
they need to be informed of those that provide exceptional value. You
aren't going to see any blistering reviews in the billiard publications that
are starving for advertisements.
The truth is that there are many cuemakers out there who are overcharging
for their product, many who undercharge, many who have truly studied the
art/science of the craft and many who have not. The beauty of the
information age is that through global and relatively instant communication
we can learn by exchanging experiences.
Had I not experienced the wrath of Arnot firsthand then perhaps I would not
have been moved to detail my personal observations on his work. However had
I actually purchased one of his cues with the same level of quality then you
can be sure that I would have written volumes.
I can also testify to some of the things said about other cuemakers in this
thread. Yes, years ago Espiritu cues were not the best quality, Jerry
Olivier's early work wasn't masterclass etc... I have probably handled cues
from most of the cuemaker's that could be named at one time or another
through ten years of travel throughout the world. I have been both burned
and blessed on several deals. There have been times when we have purchased
cues from a relatively unknown cuemaker for little money and the cues were
not that great to look at but they played fantastic. Other times we
purchased cues from relatively well known cuemakers and they developed lot's
of problems. Most of the cuemakers we deal with have always been willing to
step up and correct anything that went wrong with their products. We have
seen incredible improvement in the hit and finish of a lot of the cuemakers
that we have been dealing with for all these years. Just like we
continually improve our own products.
But Joey I can tell you this, none of the cuemakers so far that we have
ever bought from has claimed to be a master cuemaker. All of them that I
have broached the subject with have always said something along the line of
there is always room for improvement.
So I think that you did a service to all those that were considering a hefty
cue purchase this Christmas. Hopefully your topic caused them to sit back
and carefully consider their purchase from a quality standpoint as well as
an asthetic one.
--
John Collins
Instroke Sports USA
www.instroke.com
www.bunjeejump.com
"JoeyA" <agu...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:hQ226.57101$ja.92...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
Marquise
nim...@aol.com (William H. Rollins) wrote:
>
> Habernero's are quite tasty but not all that hot. Guamanium Booney
peppers are
> much hotter.
>
Let's stick to something that you have a clue about, OK Bill? First of
all, to suggest that Habaneros is "not all that hot" is downright
idiotic. As they are the hottest peppers in the world. Some people
might throw up Tepin, but some wouldn't agree. Secondly, the "Booney"
is part of the Habanero family of peppers which include the dreaded
Scotch Bonnet.
--
Marquise
-- The bones tell me nothing --
Marquise
rave...@aol.comnojunk (Raveloman) wrote:
> Bert M. wrote:>Jerry, Im not sure where your info is from, but do you
have the
> raw scale
> >numbers for this (I forget what the scale is called
>
> Bert, here is what I could find:
>
> An easy method for determining pepper hotness is Dremann's Pepper
Hotness
> scale.
The only standard that I know of (which means absolutely nothing) in
heatness index is the Scoville Unit. I think the Scoville Scale is
much more well known than the Dremann Scale (which I've never heard
of), but then again what do I know?
The Habanero and the Scotch Bonnet easily top that scale, but the Tepin
reaches the lowest limits of what the Habanero reaches. Still plently
hot.
http://www.chileheadchiles.com/heat.htm
http://www.grindhot.com/HeatRates.htm
http://www.chilepepperinstitute.org/scov.htm
http://www.diamondbullet.com/darren/habanero/scale.html
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~gcaselton/chile/faq.html#scoville
This last one lists the "Bird Pepper" as well. I don't know anything
about the Bird Pepper, but my guess is that it is also part of the
Habanero/Scotch Bonnet family.
Marquise
"J Dub" <removeextr...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Let's take another example. I understand Phil Capelle's new book was
done
> in 5 months (working some incredible hours) using a computer and word
> processor. I believe I was told previous work took over 2 years.
Does it
> make this book less valuable because he used a computer as opposed to
a
> typewriter to knock it out faster. Should we have paid less for it?
>
I think the book should be given a review and people who may or may not
buy it should be exposed to that review. Just like the cues.
Bert M.
>
>Bert,
> Sorry, don't have the hair (fake or not) that mr. Schmidt has.
>funny that pete the cop didnt followup on that open order. But he
>really wouldnt have to, But I would have
Thats a good question. I shoud ask my friend about that. Who knows, if he
still has the receipt, maybe pete will finally finish it uo? that is if he's
still working. I think I heard somewhere that he doesn't do cue work anymore.
As for the hair, none of us have as much as we used to!
Otto
"Bert M." <sxyre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001227140039...@ng-ct1.aol.com...
> As for the hair, none of us have as much as we used to!
I have as much it just grows in different places.
Otto
Bert M.
> Secondly, the "Booney"
>is part of the Habanero family of peppers which include the dreaded
>Scotch Bonnet.
>
Im not familiar with the "Booney," but, Scotch Bonnet is the same as the
Habenero. Same pepper, but one is its Spanish name, and the other is its
English name.
Fred Agnir
Bert M. wrote in message <20001227141842...@ng-ct1.aol.com>...
I don't think that's quite right. Habanero means "from Havana." My Pepper
Poster implies that the Scotch Bonnet (Jamaica) and the Habanero are related
(Capsicum Chinese) but different peppers. Bobby Flay echos that idea. I
think it's debatable but moot. They're both extremely hot and they both
give good flavor. Whether they're the same or just related, they're both
still in the same family of peppers, right?
Incidentally, it seems fairly obvious that the word "Booney" and "Bonnet"
are phonetically the same. Both "Booney" and "Bonnet" peppers are found in
the Caribbean islands, IIRC.
Never play pool after eating something with either of these peppers in them.
It's tough to shoot when you can't see or breath.
Fred
Marquise
There in the same family for sure, as I said. Some people like you say
they are the same pepper. Others say that they are variations of the
same pepper. That's probably why I didn't explicitly say that the
Habanero and the Scotch Bonnet were or weren't the same.
The only reason why I mentioned the Scotch Bonnet was to show Bill
Rollins that the Booney and the Habanero are from the same family of
peppers.
I'm sure others are fascinated with this off-topic discussion.
Frank
> I don't think that's quite right. Habanero means "from Havana." My
Pepper
> Poster implies that the Scotch Bonnet (Jamaica) and the Habanero are
related
> (Capsicum Chinese) but different peppers. Bobby Flay echos that idea.
I
> think it's debatable but moot. They're both extremely hot and they
both
> give good flavor. Whether they're the same or just related, they're
both
> still in the same family of peppers, right?
I do not like the Habanera peppers taste (sort of like battery acid,
IMO). I also think they are too hot to enjoy. I can eat them, but I do
not enjoy them. When they are added to other dishes to "flavor" the
dish, I don't care for the flavor. Maybe I'm just a sissy, but I'll
stick to my jalapeno peppers, thank you very much.
Frank
Joseph Van Buren
>I do not like the Habanera peppers taste (sort of like battery acid,
>IMO). I also think they are too hot to enjoy. I can eat them, but I do
I need to know what you were doing eating battery acid???
Joe
Frank
> I need to know what you were doing eating battery acid???
>
acid when it hit the deck in front of me. Some acid got in my eyes and
some in my mouth. I was very lucky no permanent damage was done. I was
close to a fresh water source, and flushed it out. I was really
concerned about my vision for a while.
A friend used to bring pickled peppers and tomatoes (green, about the
same size as the peppers) in to work for outages (30 day equipment
downtime for overhaul). He liked to watch people eat them and scream. I
used to take one and go to my desk. I would eat small pieces of it
building up my stamina. By the end of the 30 day period, I could eat one
of the peppers right from the jar, whole. I learned to eat them, but
never learned to like them. I have had some small yellow and red
ornamental peppers that are almost as hot, but with a better flavor. I
generally like hot stuff.
Frank
Ron Hudson
>In article <20001226210236...@ng-cj1.aol.com>,
> nim...@aol.com (William H. Rollins) wrote:
>
>>
>> Habernero's are quite tasty but not all that hot. Guamanium Booney
>peppers are
>> much hotter.
>>
>
>Let's stick to something that you have a clue about, OK Bill? First of
>all, to suggest that Habaneros is "not all that hot" is downright
>idiotic. As they are the hottest peppers in the world. Some people
>might throw up Tepin, but some wouldn't agree. Secondly, the "Booney"
>is part of the Habanero family of peppers which include the dreaded
>Scotch Bonnet.
These guy disagree with you. Are they clueless too?
http://www.batnet.com/rwc-seed/Pepper.worlds.hottest.html
Ron
Roger Orsulak
and went right to the mea maxima culpa.
Roger
JoeyA wrote:
>
> Jim, I didn't expect this thread to become a vendetta against cue makers.
snip
Bert M.
>Poster implies that the Scotch Bonnet (Jamaica) and the Habanero are related
>(Capsicum Chinese) but different peppers. Bobby Flay echos that idea.
I did some research and they are NOT the same but very closely related. As far
as listening to Bobby Flay, forget it. He is a media moron. I've cooked with
him and he doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. Same goes for
Emeril. Im not saying they don't cook well, or that the food at their
restaurants are not good, but in the world of serious cooks, they are not
looked upon highly. The people to listen to are Julia chiled and Jacque Pepin
(and others like Mark Miller).
Like I said i don't know about the "Booney" but the original poster claimed
they were from Guam, so your theory about its name might not be correct.
>Incidentally, it seems fairly obvious that the word "Booney" and "Bonnet"
>are phonetically the same.
RWMCT
Yeah, I thought maybe I was a little nuts to spend that much on a cue. Of
course, after waiting for over a year for the cue you are happy to pay anything
to get it. Of course, they were underpriced, as people would immediately offer
you more than you paid for it.
As to the good timing, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Rich (who has not bought another cue since)
Bert M.
>
>I have as much it just grows in different places.
>
>Otto
Otto,
Are you having the same problem with your palms as Eric is?
Otto
> >From: "Otto"
>
> >
> >I have as much it just grows in different places.
> >
> >Otto
>
> Otto,
>
> Are you having the same problem with your palms as Eric is?
I wish.
It now grows out of my ears and my nose. Hardly the same thing.
Otto
Bert M.
Ron,
If you noticed, that is a "sales" web site, and i would call that sales
puffery. they are using a scale of hotness that they themsselves came up with.
As some other poster pointed ut, rightly, the Scoville scale is the one to
use. It is a scientific method of detecting hotness. The site you posted
determines it by checking for heat in a tomato based preperation.
I can't remember how exactly the Scoville scale works, but it is the one I
would trust. For physics ask Ron S. or Bob J. For food, trust me, If I don't
know the correct answer now, I can surely find it for you if its important.
Ron Hudson
>>From: Ron Hudson
>
>Ron,
>
>If you noticed, that is a "sales" web site, and i would call that sales
>puffery. <snip>
Bert,
It may well be. If so, they are doing their job well and getting way up on the
search engines. Their statement about what's what is pretty definite.
My question was real. I don't know from hot food. For the life of me I don't
understand why someone would deliberately put something in their mouth that they
know will cause them pain. Must be some sort of masochism, I guess. I do know
what the Scoville Heat Measurement chart is, and I won't touch anything that
makes it anywhere on it. I think that flavor and pain are different things, but
I know that some disagree.
Ron
Fred Agnir
Bert M. wrote in message <20001227203135...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>>From: "Fred Agnir"
>
>>Poster implies that the Scotch Bonnet (Jamaica) and the Habanero are
related
>>(Capsicum Chinese) but different peppers. Bobby Flay echos that idea.
>
>I did some research and they are NOT the same but very closely related. As
far
>as listening to Bobby Flay, forget it. He is a media moron.
But in this case, he was right, and you were wrong, right? I just wanted to
make that clear.
>
>Like I said i don't know about the "Booney" but the original poster claimed
>they were from Guam, so your theory about its name might not be correct.
>
What's up Bert? The original Booney poster was Bill Rollins. You're going
to believe him? My gut feeling is that Bill meant Guatamalan, not
Guamanian.
http://www.chileheadchiles.com/heat.htm
This site says that the Booney/Bonney is from Barbados. Where's that?
Fred