My Bittersweet Lambros Cue Story (Long)
David T. Hunt
So Friday, I blow off work, get up early and drive to Valley Forge. I get
there about 9:15 and it's already a textbook cluster-fuck. Anyhow, I'm
there to buy a Lambros cue. I spoke with Mike on the phone on Wednesday
and he said he'd be there with a bunch of cues from $1,100 up to $5,000 or
so.
As I said, the organization of this event, or lack thereof, is pretty
amazing. At 10 bucks a head just to walk through the door, up to $145 for
the weekend, you'd think they would try to class the thing up a little but
it was not to be. It was a mob at the ticket booth, conflicting with the
mob trying to get into the door, conflicting with the mob trying to get
into event, all in one little area, but that's another story.
So I pay my 10 beans and go directly to the Lambros booth. Empty...
hmmmm...
I had considered a Pechauer, a Capone and Shuler over the last few months,
but had gotten my heart set on the Lambros after many good reports from
others and actually having the opportunity to hit a Lambros cue at a local
pool hall. I really liked it, and decided that I would try to fit it into
the budget. I was drawing the line at a grand and figured I could get a
"Sneaky Pete/Plain Jane" sleeper kind of Lambros and still stay within
budget... plus or minus a hundred or two. I wasn't looking for a fabulous
inlaid Ivory and turquoise poseur stick, I was looking for a straight cue
that worked. I could give a shit if it looked like it was whittled out of
a 2x4, as long as it had the Lambros feel and play I would be happy.
As I said, I spoke with Mike at length (30 minutes) on the phone on
Wednesday. He told me he would be bringing goods that started at about 11
hundred and went up from there. I was ready to peel off from 13 to 17
Franklins if I saw the right cue and if it had that Lambros "hit" that I
had felt when I tried one of his cues previously.
So there I was. Sitting in front of booth #28, "Lambros Cues", at about
9:20 Friday morning. Many of the other vendors were there, already set up
and open for business. Blud was already there behind the lathe grinding
away in his greasy apron (what a character!). The area where they put the
Lambros booth was actually outside of the "secured" area so the fact that
Mike's goods were not just sitting in the booth did not surprise me. I
toddled around a little, but I kept one eye on the Lambros booth because
the legend is that he sells out in about 20 minutes from the time he shows
up.
9:30 comes... 9:45 comes... one of Mike Lambros' "Dealers" shows up and
says that he ought to be there any minute. 10:00 comes... 10:15... I start
to think that this might turn out to be a bad situation. The Dealer tells
me that he is going outside to call Mike on the cell and see what's up.
10:30... booth is still deserted, I'm back to thinking, "Capone...
Scruggs... Pechauer...". The Dealer comes back in and tells me what I had
kind of suspected all along. He said thet he got a hold of Mike, who was
in a "business" meeting. He had sold ALL of his cues to a group of
Japanese buyers who showed up at his hotel room at 5:30 Friday morning!!!
Jesus H. Tap-dancin' Christ!!! I talk to the guy on the phone, I come out
to the show, I put up with the bullshit to get in, I pay my 10 bucks, I sit
like a groupie in front of his empty booth, and I get totally hosed! Is it
wrong for me to be a bit sour on this situation?
Finally Mike shows up at about 11:45 looking like he'd been up all night at
a high stakes poker game. His sidekick is rolling in a large flight case
that, after he opened it, was full of cues. I suspect that they were all
going back to Baltimore to get packed into a box and shipped to Tokyo.
Mike was being REAL cagey and even after asking him DIRECTLY if he had
ANYTHING to sell, he just kind of grunted, hemmed and hawed, smiled and
walked away. There were a bunch of Japanese milling around and treating
him like he was Mick Jagger or something. These guys had what looked like
the Japanese equvalent of "Teen Beat" magazine with pictures and stories
about Mike Lambros and his cues inside... NO SHIT!!
So what the fuck!?! Am I being jaded (no pun) and naiive in thinking that
Mike ought to have a minute or two for a regular player/comsumer of his
products, or should I stand back and wish him well with the overwhelming
success of his cues in the Land of the Rising Sun? Will Mike continue to
turn out a first class line of custom cues or will he go production and
pump goods to the Far East faster that you can say CMC?
What's the bittersweet part you may ask? I found a private collector who
sold me a basic Lambros cue. Bird's eye maple butt and forearm, 8
staggered cocobolo points, ebony and silver rings. A sleeper... just what
I was looking for in the first place (thanks, Larry). The thing hits like
like a laser-guided surgical instrument, I'm definitely satisfied.
I stopped back at the Lambros booth to let Mike take a look at my new
stick. "Wow, you got an old one", he said. "I made this one about six
years ago". "Yeah", I thought, "...before you sold out to the Japanese".
Glad I got a pre-production Lambros today.
Dave.
Deno J. Andrews
the business of selling cues. He does make a first-class cue stick; I
endorsed his cue for years while I was competing. You should be happy
that the demand for his cues are so high that people from other
countries are buying them in bulk. The fact that he is NOT in
production is what makes his cues sought after. If you spoke to him on
the telephone, why didn't you just order a cue stick and have it custom
made? The fact that he sold out before you even saw him is not his
fault. If you were in his situation, would you say no to the Japanese
buyers just in case there is one guy who might want to buy one $1000 cue
stick? I don't think anyone would expect you to do something like that,
just like you shouldn't expect Mike to do something like that.
If you knew you were going to buy a cue stick, you should have just
ordered it custom from him. It's that simple. He makes custom cues,
and you can't expect him to have a bunch of cues for you to scroll
through at some show. It's easy, you want a Lambros, you call him and
order one like everyone else. If you have to wait to see the cue, you
maybe should not be playing with "custom" cues. It sounds like you want
production-cue service but with custom cues, and it just doesn't work
that way. Well, at least with cue makers that are in demand.
So I think you should be happy that you got a Lambros. I think you
ought to be happy that his cues sell out faster that any other cues on
the market. As long as he continues his modus operandi, your cue stick
will appreciate for years to come.
Best regards,
Deno J. Andrews
Stoney
David had a 'reasonable' expectation to be able to view cues from the
available selection, check prices and make an informed decision. Lambros
had an 'obligation' to be where he said he was going to be when he was
supposed to be there with the selection he had available for sale.
There are many ways Lambros could have handled the prior sale of his cues.
None of which may have been immediately pleasing to David (or others) but
certainly one showing more respect for the venue and customers Lambros
'knew' would be there.
Since I do not personally believe ANY cue maker is 'so good' that I must put
up with the apparent attitude Lambros displayed I would have taken my
business elsewhere for a playing cue. An investment cue might be a
different story but I would think long and hard before before I opened my
wallet.
Regards,
Stoney
> Deno J. Andrews wrote
Deno J. Andrews
to put a bulk order on hold so that one "possible" customer, that may
spend $1000, may make his/her choice before allowing someone who IS
going to spend $60,000 to take his pick. Does this sound more
reasonable to you? To me, this sounds ludicrous! Since when are cue
makers in business to not sell their cues? Can you really tell me that
if you made cues and someone offered to buy them ALL from you at once
for some crazy amount of money that you would say "no, sorry, there is
one guy who may or may not be here that might want a cue." Like I said,
Lambros is a custom cue maker who makes CUSTOM CUES. If you want a
Lambros, it is as easy as picking up the telephone and ORDERING one.
Anything other than this M.O. is trivial when desiring a custom cue.
I am not a shill. It's quite simple...if you want to browse, buy a
Viking or a Meucci, there are always plenty on the shelf. If you want a
custom cue from a top maker, order one. He has zero obligation to the
show. He pays them for the space. If they were paying him to show his
cues, it would be a different story. However, it is not. I am glad the
gentleman purchased a Lambros. If he wants another, I would advise him
to pick up the phone and order one. If he is not willing to order one
from scratch, he is not yet ready to deal with true custom cues. This
is not a very deep issue IMO.
Deno J. Andrews
Bob Johnson
moved went overseas! They were especially interested in 18 and 18.5 oz.
cues. All the Asian buyers seemed to have an unlimited cash supply when it
came to cues.
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
Home of the 1997/1998 World Champion Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
"Deno J. Andrews @ix.netcom.com>" <"deno<REMOVE> wrote in message
news:3ABD01E4...@ix.netcom.com...
Roger Orsulak
Taking everything I've read at face value, could you explain why Mike
wouldn't give David the courtesy of an answer when he asked if he had
anything to sell? A smile, grunt and walk away? I understand David's
frustration. He had great expectations, afterall, he did talk to the
guy for 30 minutes a couple of days ago, got there early, was all pumped
up and raring to go. I also understand Mike's selling what he can, when
he can, at whatever price he can command - and I applaud it. What I
don't/can't condone or understand is the apparent callousness to another
human being who had his heart set on something that fell through. Is a
little decency and maybe compassion in responding to a simple question
too much to ask?
Roger
delete 'no' if replying by email
David T. Hunt
"Deno J. Andrews" wrote:
> Well, just as you were in the business of buying a cue, Lambros is in
> the business of selling cues. He does make a first-class cue stick; I
> endorsed his cue for years while I was competing. You should be happy
> that the demand for his cues are so high that people from other
> countries are buying them in bulk. The fact that he is NOT in
> production is what makes his cues sought after.
Yeah, I hear you, but can production be that far away? I mean if money is what
it's all about I'm sure there are ways to expedite steps and increase output. If
it's not all about the money, then why not have a few reserved cues for the folks
who were waiting in line in front of his booth on Friday. Not bloody likely that
there would be any trouble selling them over the weekend. Also, I doubt that if
a few sticks were held back from the Asian transaction that it would be a deal
breaker. Do you suppose that the Japanese bought the lot at list price? Again,
not bloody likely. I was there as a retail customer, more or less, and would
have not been offered a wholesale price I'd bet. I would have paid list.
> If you spoke to him on
> the telephone, why didn't you just order a cue stick and have it custom
> made?
Relatively valid question. I was not impatient. I waited several month after
deciding on a Lambros. I knew that Mike would be at the Valley Forge show.
Given the opportunity of seeing a cue before buying it or just ordering it and
hoping that it would turn out like you had envisioned, I think most of us would
choose the former.
> The fact that he sold out before you even saw him is not his
> fault. If you were in his situation, would you say no to the Japanese
> buyers just in case there is one guy who might want to buy one $1000 cue
> stick? I don't think anyone would expect you to do something like that,
> just like you shouldn't expect Mike to do something like that.
Well, if I had discussed the situation with a potential customer less than 48
hours ago, I would uphold my end of the conversation. If Mike had said on the
call, "Dave, I gotta tell you, I have some clients that could potentially come in
and take all of my stock in one fell swoop. If you'd like a cue, give me your
credit card number and I'll pick out a nice one for you." I would have told him
to pick out the sweetest $1,600 cue that he had in the bag and I would come and
pick it up on Friday. But there was no indication that this might have
happened. Yes I know that Mike can't predict the future, but again I had hoped
he'd have something for me to look at when I got there. I like a heavier cue.
When I called, Mike said that he didn't think he be bringing anything over about
a 19 to the show, but he could "fix me up" if I bought a cue and was in the area
over the weekend. No reason at all for me to expect anything less than at least
having a shot at a cue on Friday.
> If you knew you were going to buy a cue stick, you should have just
> ordered it custom from him. It's that simple. He makes custom cues,
> and you can't expect him to have a bunch of cues for you to scroll
> through at some show.
Because you say so? Mike said he would have cues available at the show. Had he
indicated otherwise, I would have different expectations and acted differently.
> It's easy, you want a Lambros, you call him and
> order one like everyone else. If you have to wait to see the cue, you
> maybe should not be playing with "custom" cues.
And if you can't figure out the point of my original post maybe you should not be
permitted to expose your obtuse opinions in such a public forum, but I suppose it
would be foolish for either of us to jump to conclusions, wouldn't you agree?
> It sounds like you want
> production-cue service but with custom cues, and it just doesn't work
> that way. Well, at least with cue makers that are in demand.
What I want, in virtually every transaction I make in life, is to ask the owner
of what I currently would like to acquire what I have to do to take ownership of
the item. Once instructed, I then decide if it is within my means to acquire the
item. If it is, I act upon and execute as instructed by the seller. In this
case Mike told me what to do. Had he asked for payment in advance, or if he
simply said that it was "custom orders only" than I would have had different
expectations and acted appropriately.
> So I think you should be happy that you got a Lambros.
I am.
> I think you
> ought to be happy that his cues sell out faster that any other cues on
> the market.
I am
> As long as he continues his modus operandi, your cue stick
> will appreciate for years to come.
I'm counting on it.
Jayne Rowley
bring to shows. I always tell them that they can reserve a certain portion
but the rest are for sale for the other customers and the dealers. A lot of
the custom cuemakers count on selling out at the beginning of the show
before the show starts. One year my friend and I made a trip to Tim Scruggs
place in Baltimore a few days before Valley Forge so he could buy cues for
the German market. We picked out about twenty cues out of thirty that Tim
had ready for the show. Tim did the right thing though in that he went to
the show, set up on time and displayed the cues for his domestic customers.
I am only going to guess that starting a show with 20 of 30 cues displaying
"sold" on them is also a strong statement for potential customers.
I once had a guy fly in from Canada to the Valley Forge show to purchase a
cue case based on a telephone conversation a few days beforehand. Although
I could have sold the case at full retail many times over before his arrival
I waited and he showed up. I firmly believe that this act of customer
service was more valuable to him than the case itself.
Some day the Japanese market will go soft and then there will be a lot of
cuemakers out there looking for customers. On the other hand though
cuemaking is a tough business to make a living in and the cuemakers should
ride the wave as long as they can.
As for the situation at hand I can't comment on Mike Lambros' actions other
than to say that if serious buyer's are showing up at 5:30am then he
deserves to be able to sell all of his cues. Had it been me then I would
have told the customer that my products were likely to sell out before the
show started. I would have given the customer a chance to get one if he is
that fired up about my product.
Then again.... not having to put in 12 hours a day for three days straight
would've been nice too. Glad to hear that you did in fact get a sweet
Lambros.
--
John Collins
Instroke Sports LLC
www.instroke.com
David T. Hunt <dth...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3ABD517B...@home.com...
David T. Hunt
John Collins wrote:
> A lot of the custom cuemakers count on selling out at the beginning of the
> show
> before the show starts.
I suppose that some cuemakers might have this problem, I doubt that Mike would
have this problem. Whatever. It's kind of like buying a pre-CBS Fender
Stratocaster. It really doesn't matter what the company did after that, you're
just happy to have one of the "great" ones, you know?
> I once had a guy fly in from Canada to the Valley Forge show to purchase a
> cue case based on a telephone conversation a few days beforehand. Although
> I could have sold the case at full retail many times over before his arrival
> I waited and he showed up. I firmly believe that this act of customer
> service was more valuable to him than the case itself.
Well I know that he doesn't need another endorsement from a nobody puke player
like me, but it sure would have colored my post differently had my experience
gone this way.
> Some day the Japanese market will go soft and then there will be a lot of
> cuemakers out there looking for customers. On the other hand though
> cuemaking is a tough business to make a living in and the cuemakers should
> ride the wave as long as they can.
Well, I don't wish for anybody's market du jour to dry up and I agree that they
should all "ride the wave". However, one must be careful to avoid putting off
the regular folks who may have actually gotten you there in the first place or
whom you will look toward when times get a little tighter.
> As for the situation at hand I can't comment on Mike Lambros' actions other
> than to say that if serious buyer's are showing up at 5:30am then he
> deserves to be able to sell all of his cues. Had it been me then I would
> have told the customer that my products were likely to sell out before the
> show started. I would have given the customer a chance to get one if he is
> that fired up about my product.
I'll chalk it up to Mike being caught completely by surprise by the Japanese and
not knowing me from Adam. Perhaps he had no idea that it would all be over even
before the opening bell. I guess I'll be more careful and specific in the
future.
> Then again.... not having to put in 12 hours a day for three days straight
> would've been nice too. Glad to hear that you did in fact get a sweet
> Lambros.
No doubt, I did and thanks for your note.
Dave.
Deno J. Andrews
> Taking everything I've read at face value, could you explain why Mike
> wouldn't give David the courtesy of an answer when he asked if he had
> anything to sell? A smile, grunt and walk away? I understand David's
> frustration. He had great expectations, afterall, he did talk to the
> guy for 30 minutes a couple of days ago,
No explanation; I wasn't there to see the interaction. Mike doesn't
always speak clearly and sometimes mumbles...so maybe he said something
that the gentleman didn't understand or even hear. Who knows. Usually
he is a very outgoing nice person who takes time to talk to everyone.
Not to belittle the gentleman we are talking about, but I am sure
Lambros talks to several people a day who want to buy cues. To call a
popular cue maker and think that your conversation about buying a
$1000-$2000 cue stick is unique would be optimistic IMO.
> he can, at whatever price he can command - and I applaud it. What I
> don't/can't condone or understand is the apparent callousness to
Well if he was rude it was a rare occasion. Obviously I cannot comment
because I was not there.
Deno J. Andrews
Deno J. Andrews
> Yeah, I hear you, but can production be that far away? I mean if > money is what it's all about I'm sure there are ways to expedite > steps and increase output. If it's not all about the money, then why > not have a few reserved cues for the folks who were waiting in line > in front of his booth on Friday.
Production is far off. It's economics, if he were to go into
production, he would drive his own cues' prices down and would have to
produce more to make the same amount of money. Right now, there is
demand for his cues. If he goes into production and fills the demand,
he will have cues lying around. So instead of making 500 cues a year
and making X amount of dollars, he would have to invest big money in
production type machines and then make ten times as many cues to make
the same amount of profits from his business. Not all cue makers are
interested in going into full-blown production because they like that
their cues are in demand. Plus, once in production, you can forget
about appreciating prices over the years.
> breaker. Do you suppose that the Japanese bought the lot at list > price?
Yes. They know they will sell out to someone else, and "list" price to
them is dirt cheap! They triple the prices when selling in Japan...at
least!
>Again,
> not bloody likely. I was there as a retail customer, more or less, > and would have not been offered a wholesale price I'd bet. I would > have paid list.
Are you really trying to make an argument against him selling the lot
for a possible sale of one cue, at "list?"
> Relatively valid question. I was not impatient. I waited several > month after deciding on a Lambros. I knew that Mike would be at the > Valley Forge show. Given the opportunity of seeing a cue before > buying it or just ordering it and hoping that it would turn out like > you had envisioned, I think most of us would choose the former.
I agree. But didn't you know that he has a reputation for selling out
before the shows? I mean, he has sold out before every show in the last
five years or so.
> And if you can't figure out the point of my original post maybe you > > should not be permitted to expose your obtuse opinions in such a > public forum, but I suppose it would be foolish for either of us to > jump to conclusions, wouldn't you agree?
I understand the point of your original post. Just as you think I
should not be able to express my opinion in a public forum, I don't
think you should be able to purchase a custom cue...wawawa.
> What I want, in virtually every transaction I make in life, is to ask > the owner of what I currently would like to acquire what I have to do > to take ownership of the item. Once instructed, I then decide if it is > within my means to acquire the item. If it is, I act upon and execute > as instructed by the seller.
Well this is pretty clinical and only really works in the type of
business where there is perfect competition. Buying one-of-a-kind
custom cue sticks means if you want one bad enough, order one to be made
for you. I don't think you truly understand the concept of buying a
popular cue maker's cues. Popular, in demand, custom cue makers are a
rare breed. One could easily say the popular custom cue market is
oligopolistic. In these markets, the rules are different than in
perfect competition markets like production cues and cases.
Deno J. Andrews
SteveH
<3ABC3D65...@home.com> :
..snippage...
>Finally Mike shows up at about 11:45 looking like he'd been up all night at
>a high stakes poker game.
..snippage...
>There were a bunch of Japanese milling around and treating
>him like he was Mick Jagger or something.
..snippage...
>I stopped back at the Lambros booth to let Mike take a look at my new
>stick. "Wow, you got an old one", he said. "I made this one about six
>years ago". "Yeah", I thought, "...before you sold out to the Japanese".
David,
Sounds like you got nothing but vintage Lambros. Believe me, I know people that have been treated far worse in their dealings with him. Even though I haven't seen him in 3 1/2 years, I can assure you that I know him as well as anyone.
If you are going to deal with Lambros, then there are some things you have to understand.
- First, he cannot be trusted as far as he can be thrown. The only way the you can be sure that you have a deal with Lambros is when the actual final transaction takes place, meaning you hand over the monrey and he hands over the cue. There are no certainties with him until you reach this point. It was my experience that he will not hesitate to dishonor an agreement if it suits his needs at the time. If you don't believe me, then just check in with one of his numerous former partners and get a second opinion. Lambros is a great cuemaker, on that you can be absolutely sure. With respect to every thing else about him, you can be absolutely sure of nothing.
- Two, he has an enormous ego due to the fact that he makes arguably one of the finest cues in the world. And yes, his ego is fueled by the fact that people continue to rush to his door to buy his cues. So if you are going to deal with him, then you have to be prepared to deal with the arrogance and egotistical behavior that comes with that territory. It's really not unlike similar syndromes with movie stars, rock stars, and so on. Some people remain down to earth, and for others it goes totally to their head. I can assure you that Lambros is one of the latter.
- Third, yes an enormous percentage of his cues go overseas and for huge amounts of money. For example, for a fancy cue with lots of exotic wood, ivory inlays, etc., he might be able to sell it for $2000 retail or perhaps $1200 wholesale to a dealer in the US. However in Japan, he might be able to sell that exact same cue for perhaps $3500 retail and perhaps something like $2000 wholesale. You certainly can't fault him for trying to get the best dollar for his product.
- Fourth, why do the Japanese go ape-shit and pay top dollar for his cues (as well as other high end cues from many other top-flight cuemakers? Who knows? I know that the importation of ivory and many rare and exotic hardwoods into Japan is against their laws. But whomever Lambros and others sell to in the US, has figured out a way to get these cues back into Japan apparently without problems. So it's really simple economics. Rare, high quality stuff around people that have a huge amount of expendable cash is going to generate very high demand and deliver very high prices.
- Fifth, you are going to continue to pay top dollar for his cues because currently demand outweighs supply. And certainly his cues are well-balanced, hit great, and look great. But beyond the basic functionality of the cue and possibly some points, does the high cost justify all the gingerbread? I guess that's up to the individual buyer. Has the difficulty in obtaining his cues pissed off the many customers who were his "bread-and-butter" during the mid-1990's when he was an up-and-comer? Count on it. Will he be able to sustain these high prices and selective customer base over time? Who knows?
- Sixth, if you order a cue from him and your delivery date happens to run up against his needs to get a higher-end cue delivered for a more important customer, or his needs to get a bunch of high end cues ready for a trade show, then your cue is going to sit in the rack and gather dust. Sure your $1000+ plus cue might be important to his bottom line. But it is not nearly as important as the 15-20 cues at $2000+ that one buyer is flying completely across country to buy.
So like I said, if you want to walk down that path, then make no presumptions about where it may lead.
Steve
_______________________________________________
Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com
George Rutherford
<bo...@cris.com> wrote:
> Last July, in KC, I think about half the cues the Showcase Billiards
> booth
> moved went overseas! They were especially interested in 18 and 18.5 oz.
> cues. All the Asian buyers seemed to have an unlimited cash supply when
> it
> came to cues.
>
> --
> Bob Johnson, Denver, Co
I'm actually somewhat amazed that the asian market, and Japan, in
particular, is soaking up a lot of high-end cues. The Japanese economy
has been in the tank for 10 years and has gotten even worse recently
(I'm living there at the moment). This has become a land of shoppers and
not buyers (at least so my wife says :-)) and pool has not been very
popular for some time. I suppose it's possible cause there are always
some folks with $$, but Japan surprises me as a place to sell alot of
quality product (there's no accounting for stupidity, tho...remember
Rockefeller Center).
George
Anthony DeAngelo
I'm pretty sure that his turnaround time is quite reasonable. I
corresponded with David about the possibility of Mike selling out
instantly to the Japanese (as he has done in the past) and I can
understand why David would be vexed, seeing as how he showed up as early
as he did and went to the trouble or corresponding with Mike in advance.
Still, I can certainly see why Mike would sell all his cues to one
customer if he could. I know I would. I did see several cues at his
booth, however, and I assume that they could be used as models to order
off of. I saw some other guy at Lambros' booth who was going ape shit.
This guy was a foreigner (if that matters to you) and he was screaming
"You were supposed to have four cues for me!!! That was the deal!!!"
Mike looked pained.
I guess it's hell being in demand that much, but at least, in my
experience, Lambros tries real hard. I think the good thing about this
is that maybe we all learned that you would be well advised to order in
advance. It really doesn't take long (compared especially to a
Southwest or Szamboti. Talk about demand!).
By the way, I'll wager anyone that Lambros' cues do nothing but get
better and better. I can't imagine him "going production" at all.
Other predictions: Paul Dayton soon gets the recognition he deserves.
The quality of his work is really impressive and I think he is
undercharging. Prediction 2: somebody in my family orders a PFD cue
before summer.
David T. Hunt
"Deno J. Andrews" wrote:
> Well if he was rude it was a rare occasion. Obviously I cannot comment
> because I was not there.
I didn't say rude, he wasn't. More like aloof, or just disinterested. It
looked as if he were up all night and disoriented. I suppose a 5:30 wake
up call and a 51/2 hour six figure negotiation might do that to some
folks. I wonder why he even goes to the show at all at this point. I
wonder what he did for the rest of the weekend. Did he just sit in an
empty booth telling stories sbout the cues that he didn't have and taking
orders?
Did anybody who went later in the weekend see Mike (or anyone else) at the
Lambros booth. What were they doing, out of curiosity.
Dave.
David T. Hunt
SteveH wrote:
> David,
>
> Sounds like you got nothing but vintage Lambros.
I'm starting to understand that.
> - First, he cannot be trusted as far as he can be thrown.
Hmmm... I don't know about that, but it's interesting to keep in mind for any future dealings.
> - Two, he has an enormous ego due to the fact that he makes arguably one of the finest cues in the world.
I kind of sensed that as he drank in the attention that his "business" partners were affording him at the booth on Friday.
> - Third, yes an enormous percentage of his cues go overseas and for huge amounts of money.
Believe me, I am quite clear on that point now!
> - Fourth, why do the Japanese go ape-shit and pay top dollar for his cues (as well as other high end cues from many other top-flight cuemakers?
Hey, the French love Jerry Lewis... go figure.
> - Fifth, you are going to continue to pay top dollar for his cues because currently demand outweighs supply.
C'est la vie. The only thing that concerns me now is how to buy a new extra shaft from the guy that matches the cue that I did get.
> - Sixth, if you order a cue from him and your delivery date happens to run up against his needs to get a higher-end cue delivered for a more important customer, or his needs to get a bunch of high end cues ready for a trade show, then your cue is going to sit in the rack and gather dust.
No doubt. I am an educated consumer now.
> Sure your $1000+ plus cue might be important to his bottom line.
Frankly I really doubt it. It looked like he had about 100 cues in the flight box. At about 2 - 3 grand a piece (and he did tell me that he had some at around 5 grand) he walks out of the show with something in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars, probably in cash. My $1,000-$2,000 stick means shit to him.
> But it is not nearly as important as the 15-20 cues at $2000+ that one buyer is flying completely across country to buy.
I hear you, brother.
> So like I said, if you want to walk down that path, then make no presumptions about where it may lead.
I appreciate your candid and insightful words. Thanks for the input.
Dave.
David T. Hunt
"Deno J. Andrews" wrote:
> Production is far off. It's economics, if he were to go into
> production, he would drive his own cues' prices down and would have to
> produce more to make the same amount of money.
It's a matter of degrees though, isn't it? I mean if he hand carved each stick from a maple tree and hand inlaid all the fancy bits, that would be pretty impressive, huh? So then he uses power tools like a lathe, et cetera. Next thing you know a CNC machine show up. I mean where does one draw the production line? I hyperbolize to make my
point.
> Right now, there is
> demand for his cues. If he goes into production and fills the demand,
> he will have cues lying around. So instead of making 500 cues a year
> and making X amount of dollars, he would have to invest big money in
> production type machines and then make ten times as many cues to make
> the same amount of profits from his business.
I disagree with your economics and also realize that you will not be able understand mine.
> > breaker. Do you suppose that the Japanese bought the lot at list > price?
>
> Yes. They know they will sell out to someone else, and "list" price to
> them is dirt cheap! They triple the prices when selling in Japan...at
> least!
Well I really have to find something to sell to these people. And they say Americans have more money than brains. Seems like the Japanese have us licked!
> >Again,
> > not bloody likely. I was there as a retail customer, more or less, > and would have not been offered a wholesale price I'd bet. I would > have paid list.
>
> Are you really trying to make an argument against him selling the lot
> for a possible sale of one cue, at "list?"
C'mon Dino, don't be so literal. The point is, if he had reserved two sticks at each price point, I guaran-goddamn-tee that they would have been gone by noon! He probably could have upsold me fer cryin' out loud. Since you seem to enjoy dabbling in economics, ever hear the one about all your eggs in one basket. You know what one of the
biggest killers of small companies is? Having one or two very large customers that make up all of your revenue. If the elephant goes away, you're screwed. Much better to manage your supply chain and diversify your customer base than to count on one source for all of your activity. It is an economics 101 fact that diversifying your customer
base and finding a way to strike a balance between offering customer support to the little guy as well as attending to the needs of a high volume customer is the key to a long term growing successful business. If you pig out on the low fruit, you lose the ability to adapt when those branches grow out of you reach, or altogether stop bearing
fruit!
Let's say, God forbid, Mike falls upon hards times in a year or so. I'm not really going to lose a ton of sleep over it. If on the other hand he had held a cue or two in reserve for me and remembered that we had spoken two days prior, shit... I'd remember his consideration and drive to Baltimore weekends and sweep the floor of his shop to
help him out! You think I'm the only person who feels this way? Now who's being naiive?
> > Relatively valid question. I was not impatient. I waited several > month after deciding on a Lambros. I knew that Mike would be at the > Valley Forge show. Given the opportunity of seeing a cue before > buying it or just ordering it and hoping that it would turn out like > you had envisioned, I think most of us would choose the former.
>
> I agree. But didn't you know that he has a reputation for selling out
> before the shows? I mean, he has sold out before every show in the last
> five years or so.
No, he has a reputation for selling out AT the show, almost immediately. When we spoke on the phone, he told me to come to the show and we could talk about what I wanted and he would have stock to show me. He didn't say, "buy now or they will all be gone before sunrise". Big difference.
> > And if you can't figure out the point of my original post maybe you > > should not be permitted to expose your obtuse opinions in such a > public forum, but I suppose it would be foolish for either of us to > jump to conclusions, wouldn't you agree?
>
> I understand the point of your original post. Just as you think I
> should not be able to express my opinion in a public forum, I don't
> think you should be able to purchase a custom cue...wawawa.
I did not say that you should not express your opinion, I clearly (look again) said that for me to jump to such a conclusion would be as foolish as you to suggest that I shouldn't be able (now for the second time) to purchase a custom cue.
Nairny-nairny-boo-boo... INFINITY!!
> > What I want, in virtually every transaction I make in life, is to ask > the owner of what I currently would like to acquire what I have to do > to take ownership of the item. Once instructed, I then decide if it is > within my means to acquire the item. If it is, I act upon and execute > as instructed by the seller.
>
> Well this is pretty clinical and only really works in the type of
> business where there is perfect competition.
Nope, works in every honest transaction in which I have ever participated.
> In these markets, the rules are different than in
> perfect competition markets like production cues and cases.
So I see. It is a dark underhanded place where backroom deals take precedence over truth and ethics. I took the man on his word and that was a mistake.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
Dave.
David T. Hunt
Anthony DeAngelo wrote:
> Jeez, Mike Lambros have never been anything but courteous to me, and
> I'm pretty sure that his turnaround time is quite reasonable. I
> corresponded with David about the possibility of Mike selling out
> instantly to the Japanese (as he has done in the past) and I can
> understand why David would be vexed, seeing as how he showed up as early
> as he did and went to the trouble or corresponding with Mike in advance.
Hey, thanks Anthony! I bear no hard feelings for anybody here, certainly not
you. I appreciate all of you input.
>
> Still, I can certainly see why Mike would sell all his cues to one
> customer if he could. I know I would. I did see several cues at his
> booth, however, and I assume that they could be used as models to order
> off of.
So let's ee if I have this clear. I can use a sample from the Lambros booth to
order something similar to the display models. Deno calls this "one of a kind
custom" and "production is far off"...
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
> I saw some other guy at Lambros' booth who was going ape shit.
> This guy was a foreigner (if that matters to you) and he was screaming
> "You were supposed to have four cues for me!!! That was the deal!!!"
> Mike looked pained.
Pained is a good description. I did not see this actual event, but it looks
consistent with SteveH's story and was kind of the look that Mike gave me.
> By the way, I'll wager anyone that Lambros' cues do nothing but get
> better and better. I can't imagine him "going production" at all.
> Other predictions: Paul Dayton soon gets the recognition he deserves.
> The quality of his work is really impressive and I think he is
> undercharging. Prediction 2: somebody in my family orders a PFD cue
> before summer.
No kidding!! Waiting for Lambros gave me plenty of tie to look at the pfd cue
booth right next to his. Sweet stuff, maybe it's time for my *next* cue!! =8^P
Dave.
David T. Hunt
George Rutherford wrote:
> I'm actually somewhat amazed that the asian market, and Japan, in
> particular, is soaking up a lot of high-end cues. The Japanese economy
> has been in the tank for 10 years and has gotten even worse recently
> (I'm living there at the moment). This has become a land of shoppers and
> not buyers (at least so my wife says :-)) and pool has not been very
> popular for some time. I suppose it's possible cause there are always
> some folks with $$, but Japan surprises me as a place to sell alot of
> quality product (there's no accounting for stupidity, tho...remember
> Rockefeller Center).
No shit. If I had hundred Lambros cues, a hundred boxes of Opus X cigars, and
hundred cases of Gentleman Jack bourbon whiskey (paying list price for the
lot), a container to get them to Japan, a round trip (first class, of course)
plane ticket and the time to spend a week or two selling the goods, I would
bet that I could net nearly a million dollars.
It's a wacky world, huh?
Dave.
Deno J. Andrews
> I disagree with your economics and also realize that you will not be able understand > mine.
That's fine. Supply and demand can be found usually in the very first
chapters of any econ101 textbook. If he fills all the demand for his
cues and has cues available anytime, what do you expect will happen to
his cue prices? If you say anything but go down, it is your economics
that don't add up. Take gas prices for example. When production goes
up, consumer prices fall...so the producers spend more money to produce
and get less money for the product- doesn't sound good for them does
it? Well it's the same for a custom cue maker going into production.
Triple the costs and less money for the product. They will make a
better living making less cues...that's not even considering the quality
of life of not having such a huge nut to cover each month. It makes
perfect sense. It is not every cue makers' dream to go into mass
production.
> Well I really have to find something to sell to these people. And they say Americans have more money than brains. Seems like the Japanese have us licked!
Well you must remember that $2500 in Japan is not a lot of money to a
working person. Coming here and buying cues for $2500 each is a
bargain.
> C'mon Dino, don't be so literal. The point is, if he had reserved two sticks at each > price point, I guaran-goddamn-tee that they would have been gone by noon! He probably > could have upsold me fer cryin' out loud. Since you seem to enjoy dabbling in > economics, ever hear the one about all your eggs in one basket. You know what one of
This is absurd. The egg-in-basket analogy has already happened...it's
just that he has too many customers. If the Japanese didn't buy, the
Germans would have been next. He doesn't have all his eggs in one
basket, he has customers lining up, from all over the world. HE IS IN
HIGH DEMAND. I don't know why this concept is so hard to grasp? When
something is in demand like his cues are, you are never guaranteed you
will see anything you didn't already buy!
> It is an economics 101 fact that diversifying your customer
> base and finding a way to strike a balance between offering customer support to the > little guy as well as attending to the needs of a high volume customer is the key to a > long term growing successful business. If you pig out on the low fruit, you lose the > ability to adapt when those branches grow out of you reach, or altogether stop bearing
> fruit!
His customer base is very diverse, maybe more so than most cue makers.
Your argument lacks substance because it seems like you feel you were
wronged. Well, I go back to my first statement, you should have bought
one before the show. Lambros has established customers who spend huge
money with him anytime he has availability. I find it childish and
absurd that you think he should strike a balance between the small guy
and the large buyers. The small guys should be buying from the big guys
when something is in demand like his cues.
> Let's say, God forbid, Mike falls upon hards times in a year or so. I'm not really >going to lose a ton of sleep over it. If on the other hand he had held a cue or two in >reserve for me and remembered that we had spoken two days prior, shit... I'd remember >his consideration and drive to Baltimore weekends and sweep the floor of his shop to
> help him out! You think I'm the only person who feels this way?
Probably not...his big buyers would send him a crew!
> I did not say that you should not express your opinion, I clearly (look again) said > that for me to jump to such a conclusion would be as foolish as you to suggest that I > shouldn't be able (now for the second time) to purchase a custom cue.
These are your words, I will let the phrase speak for itself: "And if
you can't figure out the point of my original post maybe you should not
be permitted to expose your obtuse opinions in such a public forum..."
> Nope, works in every honest transaction in which I have ever participated.
Well it's obvious you are not a custom cue buyer...so maybe the rules
are different in this industry?
> So I see. It is a dark underhanded place where backroom deals take precedence over > > truth and ethics. I took the man on his word and that was a mistake.
I love it...a true activist! Come on...truth, ethics... pahleeeze. He
sold out before you got to scroll through 100 cues to find ONE that you
liked. The TRUTH is that you should have ordered a custom cue. The
ETHICAL thing for him to do is to sell to his ESTABLISHED buyers first,
and then worry about new business. If you were a regular buyer, and he
told you that you couldn't buy as many cues because you wanted to show
them to a few one-cue buyers, you would be out here smearing him the
same way you are now. The fact is that you are upset because you didn't
get your way. So you come into a public forum and complain about how
you were treated by a cue maker. You call him a liar and unethical
because he is in the business of selling his cues to his established
buyers first (who helped him build his business from nothing). I wonder
who is unethical?
Deno J. Andrews
Anthony DeAngelo
> hundred cases of Gentleman Jack bourbon whiskey (paying list price for the
> lot), a container to get them to Japan, a round trip (first class, of course)
> plane ticket and the time to spend a week or two selling the goods, I would
> bet that I could net nearly a million dollars.
>
> It's a wacky world, huh?
>
> Dave.
It's the same world in which guys were charging, and getting $50 to
install a (Japanese made) Moori tip. And how about all those Toyota and
Sony products we snap up? I remember a comedian who did a bit about a
bunch of Japanese guys behind the wall of a restaurant, serving
Americans, laughing their heads off... "they're eating the raw fish,
let's see if they'll drink this warm wine!"
One reason Japanese pay a premium for things like Lambros cues and
Gentlemen Jack is that they are fans of things western in general, and
from the U.S. in particular. Pretty good of them, IMO, considering we
bombed the shit out of them. Also, they are fans of finely made items
in general, and are sort of label-snobs (as are many Americans). Deno
is right about the supply/demand. How else can you explain how a
fledgling company such as Harley-Davidson, which had to be bailed out by
the government not long ago has such demand for their product?
Here is something I'd be interesting in knowing: if you were to call
Mike, explain your situation, and ask him to make you a shaft, how long
would it take? I'll bet you'd get in inside of 2 weeks. I'd be curious
to see if I'm right. If I am, that's a lot faster than you'd get a
Southwest of Thomas Wayne shaft, I'd wager again.
SteveH
>
>SteveH wrote:
>
>> - First, he cannot be trusted as far as he can be thrown.
>
>Hmmm... I don't know about that, but it's interesting to keep in mind for any future dealings.
Just my personal experience. In the past, I was a friend, and employee and big
supporter of his business. And he fucked me royally in all 3
of those areas. And I can assure you that I'm not the only one. But so be it.
What comes around, goes around, usually when it is least expected. His curse
with me is that from now until the end of my days, people will always get
nothing but the blunt facts about him from me.
>> - Sixth, if you order a cue from him and your delivery date happens to run up against his needs to get a higher-end cue delivered for a more important customer, or his needs to get a bunch of high end cues ready for a trade show, then your cue is going to sit in the rack and gather dust.
>
>No doubt. I am an educated consumer now.
Glad to hear it. My opinion is that the vast majority of cue buyers are to a
large degree, very uneducated about the product and the maker. They rely on
the word of the maker, the sales hype, and the opinions of friends and
associates. And this cuemaker is one that you had better know what you are
getting into before you open that door.
>> Sure your $1000+ plus cue might be important to his bottom line.
>
>Frankly I really doubt it. It looked like he had about 100 cues in the flight box. At about 2 - 3 grand a piece (and he did tell me that he had some at around 5 grand) he walks out of the show with something in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars, probably in cash. My $1,000-$2,000 stick means shit to him.
I doubt that it was 100 cues, and $250k. Probably more like 20-25 cues at
$2k-$3K or about $50K-$60K.
Though it has been awhile, my experience was that
he could never retain the cash flow, credit, and employee(s) to build much
more than perhaps 125 or so cues in an entire year, much less for a single show.
But perhaps he has found another sucker to invest in the business and has been
able to increase production quantities. The biggest hype and ego sometimes
attracts the biggest fools.
And yes, your $2K cue would mean a lot to his business, because it would
represents a significant portion of his annual bottom line. But my experience
has been that he allows his ego and arrogance to cloud his business judgement,
by taking a very uncommitted effort to timely delivery. He knows that the
current demand is so high, that people won't care whether or not he violates
the terms of a sales contract. They want that cue period. That attitude is
fine if you can guarantee a lifetime of huge demand for your product.
But when you understand that a billiard cue is a luxury item, not a necessity
of life, then for sound business practices you have have to treat all customers
with care and respect. Lambros has yet to figure this out and if life has any
fairness at all, some day this shortcoming will take a big bite out of his ass.
Just my own wrong opinion,
Mark0
Mark0 <--had some econ experience
Deno J. Andrews @ix.netcom.com> <"deno<REMOVE> wrote in message
news:3AC094AB...@ix.netcom.com...
Deno J. Andrews
Lambros, throughout the elasticity, he has maintained a pretty constant
demand for his products. Maybe because he has such a long list of
people who want his cues, he is able to average out the effects of
elasticity so that they don't really affect him in the short term like
production makers.
Deno J. Andrews
Ron Shepard
George Rutherford <gru...@mte.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
> I'm actually somewhat amazed that the asian market, and Japan, in
> particular, is soaking up a lot of high-end cues. The Japanese economy
> has been in the tank for 10 years and has gotten even worse recently
> (I'm living there at the moment). This has become a land of shoppers and
> not buyers (at least so my wife says :-)) and pool has not been very
> popular for some time. I suppose it's possible cause there are always
> some folks with $$, but Japan surprises me as a place to sell alot of
> quality product (there's no accounting for stupidity, tho...remember
> Rockefeller Center).
I think the interest rate in Japan has been about 0.5%, and it was just
lowered below that in the past few days. That's not much better than
burying it in a hole. Japan has always had a high rate of savings and
investment compared to the US. If someone has money to invest, at those
rates, I can understand looking around for other possibilities.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
George Rutherford
<ron-shepard-BDA7...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>, Ron
Shepard <ron-s...@home.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>
> I think the interest rate in Japan has been about 0.5%, and it was just
> lowered below that in the past few days. That's not much better than
> burying it in a hole. Japan has always had a high rate of savings and
> investment compared to the US. If someone has money to invest, at those
> rates, I can understand looking around for other possibilities.
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
You're quite correct about the interest rate (it's actually closer to
zero, by government mandate, to stimulate the economy, if you can
believe it). My point, such as it is, is that no one in Japan seems to
spend money on *anything* (which is in agreement with the saving notion,
which again is quite correct). It just amazes me that anyone thinks they
can sell high-end goods at a profit in Japan at this point in time.
I'm not arguing with you; I just think these investor types could make
more money in pork bellies on the CBOT :-)
George
Ron Shepard
George Rutherford <gru...@mte.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
> In article
> <ron-shepard-BDA7...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>, Ron
> Shepard <ron-s...@home.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think the interest rate in Japan has been about 0.5%, and it was just
> > lowered below that in the past few days. That's not much better than
> > burying it in a hole. Japan has always had a high rate of savings and
> > investment compared to the US. If someone has money to invest, at those
> > rates, I can understand looking around for other possibilities.
> >
> > $.02 -Ron Shepard
>
> You're quite correct about the interest rate (it's actually closer to
> zero, by government mandate, to stimulate the economy, if you can
> believe it). My point, such as it is, is that no one in Japan seems to
> spend money on *anything* (which is in agreement with the saving notion,
> which again is quite correct).
I have read in the past that Japanese consumers DO spend a lot of money
on things like consumer electronics and automobiles. They almost
consider it their patriotic duty to spend money that way because they
know that when new products are developed by the Japanese companies,
that will eventually help their trade balance with the US and Europe.
>It just amazes me that anyone thinks they
> can sell high-end goods at a profit in Japan at this point in time.
Cues aren't consumable goods, they are collectables. I think most of
these high-end cues will be locked up in an oxygen-free atmosphere for
20 or 30 years, or until the cue makers pass away, and then they will be
sold for a profit.
> I'm not arguing with you; I just think these investor types could make
> more money in pork bellies on the CBOT :-)
I'm not sure that now is the time to be investing in stocks, bonds, or
commodities in the US. I've lost about a year's worth of salary in my
retirement fund in the past 6 months, or about 4 years worth of college
tuition for my son, depending on how you look at it. It was only on
paper, of course, but I would have been better off burying my money in a
hole in my back yard during that time. I'm not alone, there is a
tremendous amount of paper wealth evaporating daily. I might even be
looking to buy a nitrogen tank and a fireproof vault myself if this
keeps up.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Patrick Johnson
> ... I would have been better off burying my money in a
> hole in my back yard during that time.
I seem to have lost your address...
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Stikapos
I completely sympathize with your story. By the same token, I dont have any
empathy for those who got stuck with EMC at $90 a share. I picked up a Lambros
at the Schianella cancer event two years ago and was not impressed at all. The
workmanship was average and the balance wasnt all that hot. I certainly wasnt
ready to put down a timmy scruggs for it. So what is my take on this thing ?
David, you share some of the criticism because whether you knew it or not, you
were chasing a red herring....a hot cue. If you wanted a cheap cue that hit
well, there are tons of those....coker, webb, young, wheeler, etc. And I'll
tell you one thing about cuemakers. Most of them will give you their right arm
to help if they can. Some cuemakers are like Mike Webb. If that man promises
you something, take it to the bank cause his word is like gold. The fact that
Lambros screwed you has more to do with your "chasing" a cue than his screwball
business tactics. Despite what Deno says ( and I have a lot of respect for
Deno), you can either sell out like Arod or live with yourself like Nomar.
I'm not saying that money isnt fine, but there are greater tragedies in life
that arent cured by money. So like many situations in life, this story has a
little yin, a little yang.
Moral of the story......Shut the fuck up and buy a cue from Jerry Pechauer.
Life will eventually come back and bite Lambros in the ass soon enough. If you
cant play with one of Jerry's cues, you just cant play. Jerry, you're the
only cuemaker Marty Herman never shit on. And boy, ain't that saying
alot!!!!!!
timmy b.
Jjpechauer
>only cuemaker Marty Herman never shit on. And boy, ain't that saying
>alot!!!!!!
I think I may be asking for trouble here?
ah.............who is Marty Herman? should I be honored? Hell, I'm pleased
anytime my name is mentioned! Thanks,
Jerry Pechauer
dth...@home.com
"Deno J. Andrews" wrote:
> I love it...a true activist! Come on...truth, ethics... pahleeeze. He
> sold out before you got to scroll through 100 cues to find ONE that you
> liked. The TRUTH is that you should have ordered a custom cue.
<sigh> OK, Deno, you're right. I'm an asshole and I will be giving up the game and throwing all my cues in the fireplace.
I sure am a dope. Sorry for wasting your time.
XOXO,
Dave.
dth...@home.com
Anthony DeAngelo wrote:
> It's the same world in which guys were charging, and getting $50 to
> install a (Japanese made) Moori tip.
Hmmmmm... not me!
> And how about all those Toyota and
> Sony products we snap up?
I drive Range Rover and have a Panasonic TV. Never had a Toyota and I avoid Sony.
> I remember a comedian who did a bit about a
> bunch of Japanese guys behind the wall of a restaurant, serving
> Americans, laughing their heads off... "they're eating the raw fish,
> let's see if they'll drink this warm wine!"
Robin Williams. HBO Special, live at the San Francisco Opera House, circa 1985
> One reason Japanese pay a premium for things like Lambros cues and
> Gentlemen Jack is that they are fans of things western in general, and
> from the U.S. in particular. Pretty good of them, IMO, considering we
> bombed the shit out of them.
Um. I think they drew first blood, not that it matters.
> Also, they are fans of finely made items
> in general, and are sort of label-snobs (as are many Americans). Deno
> is right about the supply/demand. How else can you explain how a
> fledgling company such as Harley-Davidson,
Yeah, I've got one of those too.
> which had to be bailed out by
> the government not long ago has such demand for their product?
WHAT!! You've definitely got the facts bent here. Please explain this bailout or
substantiate with facts. Maybe you meant Chrysler.
> Here is something I'd be interesting in knowing: if you were to call
> Mike, explain your situation, and ask him to make you a shaft, how long
> would it take?
Funny you shoud ask. I emailed him on Monday night about getting a new shaft. Not
even a response yet.
> I'll bet you'd get in inside of 2 weeks. I'd be curious
> to see if I'm right.
Maybe I'll call tomorrow, just for fun
> If I am, that's a lot faster than you'd get a
> Southwest of Thomas Wayne shaft, I'd wager again.
Oh well, we'll see.
Dave.
dth...@home.com
Ron Shepard wrote:
> Cues aren't consumable goods, they are collectables. I think most of
> these high-end cues will be locked up in an oxygen-free atmosphere for
> 20 or 30 years, or until the cue makers pass away, and then they will be
> sold for a profit.
Y'know, you probably have a point.
One of my favorite "letter's to the editor" was in Guitar Player magazine a few
years back. It seems that the letter writer had seen an extremely rare
Stratocaster at a show in a hermetically sealed display case with all the
original hang tags and had never been played. The asking price was around $30K
! He suggested that it was a crime to take an instrument that was built to be
played long and hard and imprison it in this sterile environment for 40 years.
He said that if he ever hit the lottery that he was going to buy that guitar,
spray paint it day-glow orange, carve his name in the headstock with an icepick
and play the shit of the fucker at full volume every day!! Damn straight!!
If you are ever in a pool hall in South Jersey and see a guy with an orange
Lambros with "Elvis" carved into the butt, feel free to come up and say hi!
Dave.
dth...@home.com
Stikapos wrote:
> David
> I completely sympathize with your story. By the same token, I dont have any
> empathy for those who got stuck with EMC at $90 a share. I picked up a Lambros
> at the Schianella cancer event two years ago and was not impressed at all. The
> workmanship was average and the balance wasnt all that hot.
Well, the one I did pick up (used) is real sweet. As I said earlier, I'm glad I
got a pre-production Lambros.
> So what is my take on this thing ?
> David, you share some of the criticism because whether you knew it or not, you
> were chasing a red herring....a hot cue.
I accept that. Your point is well taken.
> If you wanted a cheap cue that hit
> well, there are tons of those....coker, webb, young, wheeler, etc.
Wasn't looking for cheap, I was looking for the best. I think I found it, but not
the way I had intended.
> Moral of the story......Shut the fuck up and buy a cue from Jerry Pechauer.
Probably good advice. And I probably will take it.
> Life will eventually come back and bite Lambros in the ass soon enough. If you
> cant play with one of Jerry's cues, you just cant play.
I once saw Chi Chi Rodriguez play a par 4 hole at his course in Clearwater with a
sand rake!!! He made par on the hole!! I am fully aware that in most cases, it
ain't the hardware... it's the software!! =8^P
Thanks for your thoughts.
Dave.
Stikapos
Marty is one of the Northeast's most famous infamous cue brokers, aside from
being its own more informal player's version of muhammed ali. If you were ever
within fifty feet of Marty and he didnt piss you off in some way, he probably
wasnt there (kinda sounds like Southside Johnny)...Anyway, the tale goes like
this....Myself and my wife were having a good day at the track...all of a
sudden, cold breeze comes into the area and we never win again...its Marty!!!!
And he goes into a litany about cues...(buy a lambros cause its hot....or a
Joss West....)...at the end I ask him what HE was shooting with....he says, a
JP...."christ, its not fancy, but Jerry puts the best materials together into a
cue that plays well.....I used it in the Joss tour finals...."
Considering the cuemakers he pooped on, yes Jerry, you should be honored.
Hell, my neighbor still only takes your cue out on sunny days! Now get back
into that shop and built me a JP with a titanium 3/8x10 pin, hand turned so its
reaallll tight, ebony front, purple heart prongs, phenolic collar, old growth
shaft and an ivory ferrule....19 inch balance point with a delrin
butt.......{duuhhhhhh......then I woke up!}
have a good one Jerry....ONE of these days .......I'll have to get to your
shop.
timmy b.
Deno J. Andrews
As long as you are dollar-cost-averaging your money into retirement,
these losses we are experiencing are actually helping your bottom line
over the long term. As long as you continue to invest each month or
every other month (whichever you do), you are actually buying more stock
for your money and when it turns around, you will build wealth at an
accelerated rate much higher than in the last few years. Although the
percentages may be the same, you will have more stock, so that
percentage is worth more money. I am sure you know all of this. So
instead of looking at this as an economic problem...the wealth builders
see it as a buying opportunity. Then when you get close to the point
that you need that money, you will shift it into more guaranteed
investments. I see this time as you not losing your son's college
money, but as a time that you are able to buy more stock for the money
and possibly send him through graduate school too!
In fact, Cisco (CSCO) is looking like a great buy right now. A year ago
it was cruising at 82 and right now it is less than 16 and dropping.
Anyone who can buy a few hundred shares of this stock will be very happy
in the years to come. I think the market will stay a little strange for
a few more months, and then slowly start to rebuild.
Deno J. Andrews
likes CSCO for the long-term
Deno J. Andrews
> <sigh> OK, Deno, you're right. I'm an asshole and I will be giving up the game and > throwing all my cues in the fireplace.
> I sure am a dope. Sorry for wasting your time.
That's better...that's the response I was waiting for ;)
Hey look...I'm sorry you went to VF and things did not go your way.
Dealing with Lambros is not like dealing with a corporation, he is an
artist. He is an artist who can use machinery to build his art. But at
heart, he is an artist, and he functions like one. That mentality
forces him to sell his work whenever he can, no matter who is coming to
see it...because there is no guarantee that the people who are showing
up will purchase anything. However, when you commission an artist to
make a piece of art for you, that is exactly what they will do. It may
take a month, and it may take a year, but every talent they have will go
into building your piece of art. Maybe it's because I collect art and
deal with artists from time to time that I have more patience for the
process.
I guess I just don't think it's fair for you to bitch about Lambros when
the only thing he did wrong was sell out before you were able to see
him. I mean, he didn't take one of your cues and sell it from under
you. You simply thought that he would be showing cues and that he
wouldn't sell out before the show. Maybe he thought that too, but
things changed...and that happened to be good for him but not for you.
It doesn't make him a bad person, and it doesn't make him a bad cue
maker. His way of doing business is different than what you are used
to...but you are buying HIS product, therefore you must subscribe to HIS
way of doing business. If the tables were turned, he would have no
problem doing business your way.
Anyway, you ended up getting a Lambros. No matter what you think of him
personally, you were still able to look past that and recognize how good
his cues are...and that is a good thing.
Deno J. Andrews
nhoop
>He sold out before you got to scroll through 100 cues to find ONE that you
> liked. The TRUTH is that you should have ordered a custom cue.
But how can one order a custom cue if one doesn't know the cue characteristics
he likes?
Nat
nhoop
>played long and hard and imprison it in this sterile environment for 40 years.
>He said that if he ever hit the lottery that he was going to buy that guitar,
>spray paint it day-glow orange, carve his name in the headstock with an icepick
>and play the shit of the fucker at full volume every day!! Damn straight!!
Y-E-A-H I second that!
Nat
George Rutherford
<ron-shepard-0148...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>, Ron
Shepard <ron-s...@home.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> In article <gruther-AAB67D...@news.biglobe.ne.jp>,
> George Rutherford <gru...@mte.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <ron-shepard-BDA7...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>, Ron
> > Shepard <ron-s...@home.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> >
>
> I have read in the past that Japanese consumers DO spend a lot of money
> on things like consumer electronics and automobiles. They almost
> consider it their patriotic duty to spend money that way because they
> know that when new products are developed by the Japanese companies,
> that will eventually help their trade balance with the US and Europe.
>
I'm not so sure that this is the case anymore. Folks here are sweating
buying a house; no tax deduction. They really don't buy much of anything
anymore.
>
> Cues aren't consumable goods, they are collectables. I think most of
> these high-end cues will be locked up in an oxygen-free atmosphere for
> 20 or 30 years, or until the cue makers pass away, and then they will be
> sold for a profit.
I'm afraid that you are probably right. Makes me a little sick, though.
Although a cue is not a "consumable", as you say, it is something that
has a use.
>
> I'm not sure that now is the time to be investing in stocks, bonds, or
> commodities in the US. I've lost about a year's worth of salary in my
> retirement fund in the past 6 months, or about 4 years worth of college
> tuition for my son, depending on how you look at it. It was only on
> paper, of course, but I would have been better off burying my money in a
> hole in my back yard during that time. I'm not alone, there is a
> tremendous amount of paper wealth evaporating daily. I might even be
> looking to buy a nitrogen tank and a fireproof vault myself if this
> keeps up.
I feel your pain. My daughter's college money is taking a dive, too (not
to mention retirement; who knows? maybe I'll get good enough to make a
living on the road :-)). Deno may have a point, tho. Dollar cost
averaging is at least a theoretically good investment strategy, unless
the US market follows the Japanese model.
Regards,
George
Joseph Van Buren
>Well, the one I did pick up (used) is real sweet. As I said earlier, I'm
>glad I got a pre-production Lambros.<<
What??? Does Mike have a factory in Taiwan that I am not aware of??? Or maybe
he is paying some hack wanna-be machinists somewhere in Wisconsin/Minnesota to
make cues?? Mike does the majority of the work on his cues.. period. He may
have one or two helpers doing odd jobs but it is not in anyway shape or form
"production". The problem is Mikes cues are EXTREMELY popular, just like a
SouthWest. We sell out of them as quickly as we get them. At VF we had 7 or so
and they ALL sold. If Mike made 100 cues for the show they would all have been
sold.
>> Moral of the story......Shut the fuck up and buy a cue from Jerry
>Pechauer.
>
>Probably good advice. And I probably will take it.
>
No comment..
Joe
PS: The secret to getting your cue may lie somewhere between patience and
persistance....
Visit www.classiccues.com for a vast selection of collectible cues New
additions weekly. Specials changing all the time.... From now till 3/21/01
check for the Super Expo specials.. will always be changing from now till the
show!!!!
Rick
In my experience:
Lambros is a compulsive liar. Considering of all the misfortunes he had
while I was waiting for my cue(he got hit by a car, got kicked out of his
building, ran out of leather), I was lucky to get my cue. The word
"tomorrow" has taken on a new meaning for me. I heard him say. It's
finished, I'm sending it out tomorrow no less than a dozen times.
Is it the best cue I've ever hit with? Yes.
So much so that I decided to order a break/jump cue. He said he finished it
a number of times, but it didn't hit right so he had to start all over.
Then he said the price has gone up. He now wanted almost as much for a
jump/break cue as I paid for my playing cue ~$1000 if I remember correctly.
He told me he would send it out at the end of the week and that I should
send him the balance.
I decided I wouldn't send him any more money until he said it was in the
mail. So I call him up the next week and, much to my surprise the cue didn't
hit right so he had to scrap it.
I told him I wanted my money back. He said he understood and would send it
right out.
It took me at least a 1/2 dozen more calls with the same kind of bull to get
my money back. The check was lost twice in the mail. I had to plead with
him to get my money back. I decided to play his game and say I was in dire
straits and had lost my job and that I really really really needed the
money. He said I would get it tomorrow, and I actually was very surprised
to get it the next week.
That is the last time I will deal with Mike Lambros. I don't ever let my cue
out of my sight and will not let anyone so much as touch it. If it ever
needs repair, I may as well consider it a total loss. Sending it to Lambros
is not an option.
It's too bad. I think his bad business practices will catch up to him
eventually.
"SteveH" <donot...@interbulletin.bogus> wrote in message
news:3AC0CFF4...@interbulletin.com...
Anthony DeAngelo
You really don't like the Japanese, do you? Is it because they look
sneaky or because they pay exhorbitant prices for "mass production"
cues?
Run all 8
>needs repair, I may as well consider it a total loss. Sending it to Lambros
>is not an option.
you can have some one else repair it...if the repair guy is any good it will
just as good as new or better...i know that there are a few of the best ones
right here @ rsb.>It's too bad. I think his bad business practices will catch
up to him
>eventually.
i hope it does sooner than later...i don't care how good his cues hit...there
are plenty more cue makers where he came from...
Greg Savoie
show and purchased several cues. I would have LOVED to have purchased
nearly every cue he had available. The reason that Mike did not sell me
additional cues was specifically because he had several other dealers who
were expecting cues. He certainly does not need to put all his eggs in one
basket. Mike could have made more money by selling all his cues to
individuals, and he could certainly raise his prices and still sell out
every cue he makes. Fortunately for a business like mine, Mike Lambros has
a great deal of loyalty to his existing customers and dealers; and when I
can't get as many cues as I would like, I also respect that he has loyalty
to his other dealers; including his Japanese customers. The general
concensus seems to be that the Japanese dealers received the majority of the
cues Mike Lambros had available, however, Mike's American dealers as many or
more cues.
Greg Savoie
The Billiard Warehouse, Inc.
http://www.billiardwarehouse.com
888-809-7665
"Deno J. Andrews @ix.netcom.com>" <"deno<REMOVE> wrote in message
>
Greg Savoie
cues to one buyer. He sold his cues to several long standing dealers; both
American and Japanese dealers. I do not know about other dealers, however,
I sell Mike Lambros cues at the same price that Mike would sell to
individuals. I have a wait list that never completely gets depleted,
however, Lambros cues are usually available to anyone on the wait list
within 4-8 weeks; sometimes sooner.
The Valley Forge show is not the only opportunity to purchase Mikes cues as
he has several established dealers who continually receive cues. You can
also order a cue directly from Mike.
Furthermore, it does not take all that long to have Mike custom make a cue
for you. I recently took a custom order for a customer and Mike had the cue
completed in less than 6 weeks. That is rather good turnaround time for one
of the top cuemakers in the world.
Finally, there is always two sides to any story. Its frustrating to watch a
forum where people will start bashing an individual or company when they
have only a very small portion of the facts.
Greg Savoie
The Billiard Warehouse, Inc.
http://www.billiardwarehouse.com
888-809-7665
"Anthony DeAngelo" <new...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3ABF4D...@mindspring.com...
> Jeez, Mike Lambros have never been anything but courteous to me, and
> I'm pretty sure that his turnaround time is quite reasonable. I
> corresponded with David about the possibility of Mike selling out
> instantly to the Japanese (as he has done in the past) and I can
> understand why David would be vexed, seeing as how he showed up as early
> as he did and went to the trouble or corresponding with Mike in advance.
> Still, I can certainly see why Mike would sell all his cues to one
> customer if he could. I know I would. I did see several cues at his
> booth, however, and I assume that they could be used as models to order
> off of. I saw some other guy at Lambros' booth who was going ape shit.
> This guy was a foreigner (if that matters to you) and he was screaming
> "You were supposed to have four cues for me!!! That was the deal!!!"
> Mike looked pained.
> I guess it's hell being in demand that much, but at least, in my
> experience, Lambros tries real hard. I think the good thing about this
> is that maybe we all learned that you would be well advised to order in
> advance. It really doesn't take long (compared especially to a
> Southwest or Szamboti. Talk about demand!).
> By the way, I'll wager anyone that Lambros' cues do nothing but get
> better and better. I can't imagine him "going production" at all.
> Other predictions: Paul Dayton soon gets the recognition he deserves.
> The quality of his work is really impressive and I think he is
> undercharging. Prediction 2: somebody in my family orders a PFD cue
> before summer.
Stikapos
I am happy that Mike takes care of you. In light of the availability issues
surrounding Mike's cues, I'm kinda shocked at a six week turnaround. As I said
before, this was a yin yang deal. From dealing with a guy like Mike Webb, I
know that there is never a time where I would ever have to worry about
something similar to that experienced by the gentleman poster. By the same
token, if you think you are going to show up at the biggest show of the year
and get basically a plain jane by showing up, I'd like to think you were a
little optimistic.
As far a cisco being the bomb of all stocks, I'll reserve judgement on that one
until this next six months of hell has passed......
timmy b.
Rick
he was god. Same thing with a Cuetec According to him he was getting these
Cuetec sticks custom made just for him. They were thinner around the joint
so they gave you more action,so he said He promotes whatever he is playing
with. At the time he had a trunk full of cuetecs so he said they were the
best cue made. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him....
"Stikapos" <stik...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010329062634...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
dth...@home.com
Anthony DeAngelo wrote:
> You really don't like the Japanese, do you? Is it because they look
> sneaky or because they pay exhorbitant prices for "mass production"
> cues?
Not true at all. I really have no opinion. In fact I am about the most un-prejuduced
person you would ever run into. I judge things and individuals on their particular
qualities or faults.
I don't fault the Japanese for paying huge money for anything. I find it kind of stupid,
but not much more or less.
Oh well...
Dave.
dth...@home.com
nhoop wrote:
BINGO, Nat!!!
Bing-fuckin'-go!
Dave.
dth...@home.com
Rick wrote:
> My experience with Lambros agrees with what Steve H has to say.
>
> In my experience:
>
> Lambros is a compulsive liar. Considering of all the misfortunes he had
> while I was waiting for my cue(he got hit by a car, got kicked out of his
> building, ran out of leather), I was lucky to get my cue.
Wow! Yet another vote (I got 4 more in private email) against dealing with
Mike. Hmmmm...
Today I did get a response on my new shaft question, butr someone else told me
that, "I shouldn't ecpect to hear from Mike at all this week, he just put his
father in the hospital".
Seems like the chronic misfortune cited above is continuing.
Dave.
Stikapos
have a bridge to sell! But seriously, Jerry works as hard as anyone to make a
good cue. Are there differences in cues? Yes. Do they impact our games that
much ? Probably not as much as we think. The mind does the rest.
timmy b.
Greg Savoie
impression on me. Unfortunately, all it would take is one person trying to
damage his reputation to make everyone who does not know Mike Webb, question
his integrity. As I've said before, there is usually more than one side
to every story. Mike Lambros has fully earned my trust over a long peroid
of time.
Greg Savoie
The Billiard Warehouse, Inc.
http://www.billiardwarehouse.com
888-809-7665
"Stikapos" <stik...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010329183230...@ng-cv1.aol.com...
michael lambros
attempt to clarify the subjects posted.
First and foremost my father is in the surgical ICU at Johns Hopkins
hospital Bayview therefore my utter loathing goes out to any and all who
bespoke unkindly on this matter. My door is always open to settle this issue
personally if needed!!!
Secondly stikapos whoever you are if you did indeed obtain the cue that was
raffled off for Tony I will say that the cue was rushed for the event. I was
called only days prior and I did what I could for Tony on very short notice.
And in saying that I believe you must be local. Why then have you never
brought the cue to my shop so that I might correct any deficiencies. Or is
that to much to ask!
Next Dave Hunt yes you did call prior to the show so did approx. 30 others
asking if I would have cues available. You not only did you not make a
commitment to buy you also stated that you had no idea in what you wanted or
needed. Now factor that in with all the other calls ( that didn't
materialize) the fact that I worked 80 hours to get ready and tell me if I
should have stopped one of the three established dealers from getting their
cue so that I should entertain your whim. I did also deliver three custom
cues to individual customers there as well. Now bad business practice would
have been to upset established respected dealers and take care of a wish. I
could not do that.
Finally as for Steve Hegg. The most deceitful, cowardly person I have ever
met. Here is a person who worked as an engineer making $65 thou. with his
only expense being a house, he didn't even own a car, got fired from his job
and then had to file bankruptcy. Where did all the money go? Is the IRS
still looking for to pay up on the many years of back taxes owed. Or did you
spend it all on drugs and porno, like the several thousand $ worth that was
in the house when you left to go back to Chicago. Here is a man that I
thought was a friend, I took him in and gave him a job, even though he had
no applicable skills. Kept him employed even though he was late 92 days in
one year. His knowledge of me and my business is anything but valid. He is a
bitter lost sole who lashes out. As he once told me "I sucker punched and
broke my best friend nose for fun" this is who every one is placing
credibility with. Enough is enough. To Steven Hegg please come and see me I
relish the opportunity to settle this in person!!!
I would submit that I have not been able to please everyone, but I have one
hell of a great track record. I have been making one of the best playing,
and looking cues for 8 years now. Especially the past 3.The events spoken
about ; me being in a car accident, losing the lease on my building, and
running short of supplies due to humidity attacking my wood,leather and
ivory supplies are all true I can and will supply evidence to the truth as
such.
If people will continue to blast an person or business due to hearsay and
innuendo then indeed this industry deserves the reputation that it has. I
have and will continue to operate my business in a professional manner
regardless of you.
Sorry for the lengthily post
Michael Lambros
<dth...@home.com> wrote in message news:3AC40202...@home.com...
Mark0
was closest to the truth at worst and likely 100% accurate. I think most of
the rational people reading posts here acknowledge that being in business
may be a balancing act (who do I sell what to) but the bottom line is you
have to take the 'bird in the hand'.
All the best
Mark0
michael lambros <mlam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9a2kh4$f0k$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
Stikapos
Since you chose to mention me personally, let me straighten out a few things
as obviously, you were too rushed to read my post carefully. My comment was
that I picked up your cue at the auction and honestly, couldn't figure out
what all the fuss was about. I didnt hit with it. But while I did find average
classic construction, it certainly did not have the forward balance nor the
tightness of joint I expected and the tonality of the cue was exactly average.
Neither was I crazy about the shaft wood. Because of these reasons, I didnt bid
on it. If you dont think it represented your best work because of
circumstances and want to change my opinion, do like Jerry Pechauer
offered.....send me a cue, I'll hit with it for a week and send it back,
including a payment for postage and any potential scratches, etc. (ya, like
there'd be any...my joss west still looks like new) Then I'll post here with my
unbiased comments. By the way, I turned Jerry down for the offer (dummy,
dummy, dummy!) And no, I'm no Gibroni that knows nothing about cues. I own
quite a few and have learned about construction from the best. And the reason I
was there at the event in the first place was for Tony. I'd kiss that man's
ass anyday cause he's just too damn sweet.
As far as being slanderous, you'd better take me out of that catagory, also.
There were others who posted (more than one) with negatives about you. I
cannot do so directly because we haven't done business, much less met.
HOWEVER, IFFFFFF you did tell this soul that he would be able to buy a cue
(which is what he told us...and I qualified my answer accordingly) and then
sold them all off, the criticism I layed at BOTH of you was justified. He
should have known that there are many cuemakers who make superior products.
Singling you out like that would have normally tipped you off that he was a
geekzoid collector trying to make a quick buck (I'd have shot him for a move
like that). But this guy was possibly worse. As I said, if this gentleman
NEEDED one of your cues that bad, he was in tough shape to begin with. You, on
the other hand, could have become a folk hero by holding out just one stinkin
cue. If he didn't take it, the cue would have been sold at a premium at the
show anyway and you would have been whole. Damnit, once in a while you have to
do something special, even though you don't have to. George did it. So did Gus.
By holding out a single cue, you could have been a hero. Instead, you are the
goat. In closing, there are dozens of cuemakers, like yourself, who
virtually risk life and limb (well, at least their health), not to mention
poverty, to provide us with superior playing instruments. To single one over
the others (as superior) is foolhardy and an insult to every one of the others.
That's why I dont dig it when I see it and I didn't dig it here. I was on
that side once and Richie Black, in his typical understated gentlemanly
fashion, straightened me right the "f" out. I was trying, in my own style, to
do the same for this gentleman. I hope your dad does well. I've been saying
goodbye to mine for over twenty years.
sincerely,
timmy b.
dth...@home.com
michael lambros wrote:
> Next Dave Hunt yes you did call prior to the show so did approx. 30 others
> asking if I would have cues available. You not only did you not make a
> commitment to buy you also stated that you had no idea in what you wanted or
> needed.
Mike, as I suspect that you have read the thread from the top, I'm sure that you
see I did not attack anyone. I simply relayed my experience. I harbor no hard
feelings for anyone in this situation. I was disappointed in the outcome, but
did try to make the best of it.
I have stated nothing but fact, looking for input on how "the game" works and,
as you know, have been in contact with you (with no malice) regarding a shaft
for the cue that I did get. I have made no personal attacks, those were from
others. I was simply trying to acquire the cue that I had decided on. Period.
I tend to write anecdotally, but I stay with the truth 100%. I cannot vouch for
(or against) anything that was said by other, but my post was a 100% accurate
account of my experience. That's all.
> Now factor that in with all the other calls ( that didn't
> materialize) the fact that I worked 80 hours to get ready and tell me if I
> should have stopped one of the three established dealers from getting their
> cue so that I should entertain your whim.
Calling it a whim is a tad harsh in my opinion. Again, I decided months ago
that I would like one of your cues. The advice across the board from nearly all
the dealers I spoke to who represent your products said that my best move was to
*see* you at Valley Forge. That's what I tried to do. I also called ahead.
Frankly, had you said, "Dave, the only way that I can guarantee you a cue is to
give me a credit card number" I would have. If you said, "Dave, I only do
custom. Place an order or buy used", I would have considered those options as
well. Truth be told, I could drive to your shop in under two hours and had you
suggested that, I probably would have simply driven down to Baltimore. I guess
I just didn't know the rules.
Whatever... I really didn't give a whole lot of thought to this situation after
my post until I got the message from Deno that basically said that I was an
idiot and probably should not be playing with custom cues and was more perturbed
by his arrogance that the overall situation in general. But at any rate, I have
way too many real issues in my life than to continue on this ridiculous thread.
So, I'm out.
I sincerely hope that all goes well with your father.
Dave.
dth...@home.com
Stikapos wrote:
> HOWEVER, IFFFFFF you did tell this soul that he would be able to buy a cue
> (which is what he told us...and I qualified my answer accordingly) and then
> sold them all off, the criticism I layed at BOTH of you was justified.
If you recall, I (the [gentle]man being discussed) accepted that criticism.
> Singling you out like that would have normally tipped you off that he was a
> geekzoid collector trying to make a quick buck (I'd have shot him for a move
> like that).
Nope. Just a player, not a hustler, collector, speculator, reseller or collector.
Just a guy who like to play pool and has always sought to buy and USE (not resell)
the best equipment possible in any contest or exhibition. Period. I have never
sold a cue in my life. I am not starting now.
> But this guy was possibly worse.
Pardon?
> As I said, if this gentleman
> NEEDED one of your cues that bad, he was in tough shape to begin with.
I didn't need anything. I wanted a cue and was executing the rules and conditions
of owning the one that I wanted as I knew them. Mike, should he choose to reply,
might remember that it wasn't so much that I didn't "know what I wanted", but in
fact I said that I did not care about ornamentation and inlay, I wanted a cue that
had the Lambros feel and play. Looks were not really even considered. I pretty
much knew exactly what I wanted.
Dave.
Deno J. Andrews
> I tend to write anecdotally, but I stay with the truth 100%.
> until I got the message from Deno that basically said that I was an
> idiot
I would like for you to show me my post that said you were an
idiot...that is...if you really stay with the truth 100%.
>and was more perturbed by his arrogance that the overall situation in >general.
Well I can't argue with you here. I am arrogant...very arrogant. The
billiard industry has changed me. Now that I am out, maybe things will
change and I will have more tolerance...although, I cannot guarantee
anything.
Deno J. Andrews
MULLY
ago for 3 cues and he keeps putting me off. Won't answer my messages that I
send him and just happens to not be in the office when I call. How nice. I
sure hope he likes lawsuits. The lady that put the money up for this is not
an easy target. I've got all of his emails here, including the one where he
asked me not to talk around about buying his cues directly since he's got a
deal with Cosmo Billiards here in Japan that they're the only ones he can
sell to. I'm sure they're gonna like seeing this one.
MULLY
"David T. Hunt" <dth...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3ABC3D65...@home.com...
> Howdy:
>
> So Friday, I blow off work, get up early and drive to Valley Forge. I get
> there about 9:15 and it's already a textbook cluster-fuck. Anyhow, I'm
> there to buy a Lambros cue. I spoke with Mike on the phone on Wednesday
> and he said he'd be there with a bunch of cues from $1,100 up to $5,000 or
> so.
>
> As I said, the organization of this event, or lack thereof, is pretty
> amazing. At 10 bucks a head just to walk through the door, up to $145 for
> the weekend, you'd think they would try to class the thing up a little but
> it was not to be. It was a mob at the ticket booth, conflicting with the
> mob trying to get into the door, conflicting with the mob trying to get
> into event, all in one little area, but that's another story.
>
> So I pay my 10 beans and go directly to the Lambros booth. Empty...
> hmmmm...
>
> I had considered a Pechauer, a Capone and Shuler over the last few months,
> but had gotten my heart set on the Lambros after many good reports from
> others and actually having the opportunity to hit a Lambros cue at a local
> pool hall. I really liked it, and decided that I would try to fit it into
> the budget. I was drawing the line at a grand and figured I could get a
> "Sneaky Pete/Plain Jane" sleeper kind of Lambros and still stay within
> budget... plus or minus a hundred or two. I wasn't looking for a fabulous
> inlaid Ivory and turquoise poseur stick, I was looking for a straight cue
> that worked. I could give a shit if it looked like it was whittled out of
> a 2x4, as long as it had the Lambros feel and play I would be happy.
>
> As I said, I spoke with Mike at length (30 minutes) on the phone on
> Wednesday. He told me he would be bringing goods that started at about 11
> hundred and went up from there. I was ready to peel off from 13 to 17
> Franklins if I saw the right cue and if it had that Lambros "hit" that I
> had felt when I tried one of his cues previously.
>
> So there I was. Sitting in front of booth #28, "Lambros Cues", at about
> 9:20 Friday morning. Many of the other vendors were there, already set up
> and open for business. Blud was already there behind the lathe grinding
> away in his greasy apron (what a character!). The area where they put the
> Lambros booth was actually outside of the "secured" area so the fact that
> Mike's goods were not just sitting in the booth did not surprise me. I
> toddled around a little, but I kept one eye on the Lambros booth because
> the legend is that he sells out in about 20 minutes from the time he shows
> up.
>
> 9:30 comes... 9:45 comes... one of Mike Lambros' "Dealers" shows up and
> says that he ought to be there any minute. 10:00 comes... 10:15... I
start
> to think that this might turn out to be a bad situation. The Dealer tells
> me that he is going outside to call Mike on the cell and see what's up.
> 10:30... booth is still deserted, I'm back to thinking, "Capone...
> Scruggs... Pechauer...". The Dealer comes back in and tells me what I had
> kind of suspected all along. He said thet he got a hold of Mike, who was
> in a "business" meeting. He had sold ALL of his cues to a group of
> Japanese buyers who showed up at his hotel room at 5:30 Friday morning!!!
>
> Jesus H. Tap-dancin' Christ!!! I talk to the guy on the phone, I come out
> to the show, I put up with the bullshit to get in, I pay my 10 bucks, I
sit
> like a groupie in front of his empty booth, and I get totally hosed! Is
it
> wrong for me to be a bit sour on this situation?
>
> Finally Mike shows up at about 11:45 looking like he'd been up all night
at
> a high stakes poker game. His sidekick is rolling in a large flight case
> that, after he opened it, was full of cues. I suspect that they were all
> going back to Baltimore to get packed into a box and shipped to Tokyo.
> Mike was being REAL cagey and even after asking him DIRECTLY if he had
> ANYTHING to sell, he just kind of grunted, hemmed and hawed, smiled and
> walked away. There were a bunch of Japanese milling around and treating
> him like he was Mick Jagger or something. These guys had what looked like
> the Japanese equvalent of "Teen Beat" magazine with pictures and stories
> about Mike Lambros and his cues inside... NO SHIT!!
>
> So what the fuck!?! Am I being jaded (no pun) and naiive in thinking that
> Mike ought to have a minute or two for a regular player/comsumer of his
> products, or should I stand back and wish him well with the overwhelming
> success of his cues in the Land of the Rising Sun? Will Mike continue to
> turn out a first class line of custom cues or will he go production and
> pump goods to the Far East faster that you can say CMC?
>
> What's the bittersweet part you may ask? I found a private collector who
> sold me a basic Lambros cue. Bird's eye maple butt and forearm, 8
> staggered cocobolo points, ebony and silver rings. A sleeper... just what
> I was looking for in the first place (thanks, Larry). The thing hits like
> like a laser-guided surgical instrument, I'm definitely satisfied.
>
> I stopped back at the Lambros booth to let Mike take a look at my new
> stick. "Wow, you got an old one", he said. "I made this one about six
> years ago". "Yeah", I thought, "...before you sold out to the Japanese".
>
> Glad I got a pre-production Lambros today.
>
> Dave.
>
Stikapos
Providence, RI Mayor Buddy Cianci. That man is burning as we speak. Hey
Mully, you still bowling ?
timmy b.
Anthony DeAngelo
> Well I can't argue with you here. I am arrogant...very arrogant. The
> billiard industry has changed me. Now that I am out, maybe things will
> change and I will have more tolerance...although, I cannot guarantee
> anything.
>
> Deno J. Andrews
That was sarcasm, folks. Although Deno and I may argue I believe him
to be a hell of a guy, and lament the fact that people who behave as he
does seem to be a dying breed. The fact that he has nothing negative to
say about M.L. speaks volumes, IMO.