Can any NBA player *not* dunk?
Brian Holtz
1. Can any NBA player *not* dunk?
2. Which player can get his hand highest in the air, and how high?
(Didn't I hear that some player could make his elbow touch the top
of the backboard...?)
3. Wouldn't it be cool if for free-throws the players were allowed to
jump from the free-throw line, with a running start? How many
players besides Jordan and Pippen would thus have 100% FT averages?
4. Free throws are boring. Wouldn't it be cool if fouls were handled
like hockey, and a team had to be minus a player for, say, 60 or 90
seconds when they get called for a foul? Power plays and off-sides
fast breaks are exciting. I can't understand why neither the NHL
nor the NBA have *both*.
5. Having games be decided by hail-mary three-point shots is silly.
Why not just say that to win the game, you have to be ahead by,
say, 5 points after 48 minutes?
6. How about a 4-point line, and a 5-point line? No, better yet, a
3-point dunk line reaching out to about the FT line. And make
allez-oops from behind the 3-point line count as a three.
7. Why does the NBA have a 24-sec. shot clock but a 10-sec. backcourt
rule, while the NCAA has a 45-sec. shot clock and a 5-sec.
backcourt rule?
8. Why ask why?
--
Brian Holtz
Andy Knipp Metro SE
>
>1. Can any NBA player *not* dunk?
Jordan, if you say the Knicks game a couple of days ago. :-)
On the Bulls, Paxson claims he can, however I have never seen him
attempt one, even during pregame warmup. Hodges used to be able to
dunk, however, he is getting old & I wonder if he can now. BJ can,
though he never does in a game.
>
>2. Which player can get his hand highest in the air, and how high?
> (Didn't I hear that some player could make his elbow touch the top
> of the backboard...?)
I remember Clyde Drexler won a contest where they kept moving the rim
up until guys could not dunk. He was the last one in. BTW, Jordan
was not in that contest.
---
Andy Knipp SE |
Sun Microsystems | The secret of success is sincerity,
Schaumburg, IL | once you can fake that, you have it made.
an...@sunbird.central.sun.com |
Bennet Ih - Sun BOS Hardware - Sunergy
Neither Charlotte's Tyrone "Muggsy" Bogues (5'3") nor Washington's Michael Adams (5'10")
can dunk.
Russ Smith
>ho...@tooltalk.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Holtz) writes:
>>6. How about a 4-point line, and a 5-point line? No, better yet, a
>> 3-point dunk line reaching out to about the FT line. And make
>> allez-oops from behind the 3-point line count as a three.
>
NO. The 3 pointer is bad enough. Why don't we just hire judges to grade each
shot and do it with Olympic style scoring? The E. German judge wouldn't be
a problem in the NBA.
Why should a longer shot be worth more, when its so much harder to actually
run a play to get a layup than to run a play to get a 25 foot jumper?
>>7. Why does the NBA have a 24-sec. shot clock but a 10-sec. backcourt
>> rule, while the NCAA has a 45-sec. shot clock and a 5-sec.
>> backcourt rule?
The college game doesn't have a 5 second backcourt rule.
THey have a 5 second closely guarded rule(which is also dumb with a
shot clock), but like the NBA, they have a 10 second backcourt rule.
Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"You can listen to Jimi, but you can't HEAR Jimi"
Wesley Snipes- "White Men Can't Jump"
******************************************************************************
Mikemoe
>1. Can any NBA player *not* dunk?
>2. Which player can get his hand highest in the air, and how high?
> (Didn't I hear that some player could make his elbow touch the top
> of the backboard...?)
>3. Wouldn't it be cool if for free-throws the players were allowed to
> jump from the free-throw line, with a running start? How many
> players besides Jordan and Pippen would thus have 100% FT averages?
This WAS allowed to my knowledge (which might not be very good), but
was disallowed due to the man we call Wilt the Stilt Chamberlain.
>4. Free throws are boring. Wouldn't it be cool if fouls were handled
> like hockey, and a team had to be minus a player for, say, 60 or 90
> seconds when they get called for a foul? Power plays and off-sides
> fast breaks are exciting. I can't understand why neither the NHL
> nor the NBA have *both*.
This WOULD be interesting to see implemented, at least once.
I don't know if I would like it, however.
>5. Having games be decided by hail-mary three-point shots is silly.
> Why not just say that to win the game, you have to be ahead by,
> say, 5 points after 48 minutes?
I personally think close games are exciting. I know we I
want a team to win and they ahead by 2 with 2 minutes left,
my stomach is churning inside. Excitement!!!
However, from playground ball experience, win-by-2 games
can go on an on. Imagine how much extra it would take to win
by 5! Besides that, coaches would be playing completely different
endgame strategies with this rule.
>6. How about a 4-point line, and a 5-point line? No, better yet, a
> 3-point dunk line reaching out to about the FT line. And make
> allez-oops from behind the 3-point line count as a three.
Interesting with allez-oops.
>7. Why does the NBA have a 24-sec. shot clock but a 10-sec. backcourt
> rule, while the NCAA has a 45-sec. shot clock and a 5-sec.
> backcourt rule?
I remember on halftime game show that the reason for 24 in the
24 sec rule was basically picked out of a hat! (Sort of)
My understanding that whoever did the choosing, figured out the
average number of shots per game, and divided that into the length
of the game and came up with 24 seconds.
>8. Why ask why?
Why not?
>--
>Brian Holtz
9. I always thought it would put more "pure skill" (whatever that was)
back into the game if they raised the hoops to 11 feet or so. Talk about
skying!
Of course this would add a few years to a childs first regulation basket.
mack
>> (Didn't I hear that some player could make his elbow touch the top
>> of the backboard...?)
>
>I remember Clyde Drexler won a contest where they kept moving the rim
>up until guys could not dunk. He was the last one in. BTW, Jordan
>was not in that contest.
There was a picture in SI a while back showing Drexler dunk, and the
rim 11'7" high. Regular height of the rim is 10'.
-mack
Brett Barksdale
-3. Wouldn't it be cool if for free-throws the players were allowed to
- jump from the free-throw line, with a running start? How many
- players besides Jordan and Pippen would thus have 100% FT averages?
This is the reason it *is* illegal. One of the big-men of old (Wilt?) used
to do that all the time, so they outlawed it. Same thing with inbounds passes
over the backboard...
-7. Why does the NBA have a 24-sec. shot clock but a 10-sec. backcourt
- rule, while the NCAA has a 45-sec. shot clock and a 5-sec.
- backcourt rule?
Last time I checked, the NCAA had a 10 sec backcourt rule.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Want a twinkie, Genghis Khan?"
Brett Barksdale br...@porky.oce.orst.edu
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JTSFMH
>back into the game if they raised the hoops to 11 feet or so. Talk about
>skying!
>Of course this would add a few years to a childs first regulation basket.
>
i find this interesting. It would put "pure skill" in the game, but it'd
be hard to adjust I suppose, and it wouldn't be as exciting with all the
dunks..
another note: guess why Naismith originally chose 10 feet as the heigth
for the hoop?
because he didn't want anyone damaging the rim, touching the rim, etc.
how ironic...
cheers
Guangliang He
|> 3. Wouldn't it be cool if for free-throws the players were allowed to
|> jump from the free-throw line, with a running start? How many
|> players besides Jordan and Pippen would thus have 100% FT averages?
|>
I don't think even Jordan can have 100% FT with the running start.
Considering he missed the break away dunk in a game against Kinck
several days ago. :-).
--
Guangliang He
g...@physics.orst.edu
R.CLOUGH
>another note: guess why Naismith originally chose 10 feet as the heigth
>for the hoop?
>
>because he didn't want anyone damaging the rim, touching the rim, etc.
Really? I had read in _The Modern Encyclopedia of Basketball_ that the
peach baskets were hung at ten feet because there were two balconies ten
feet off the ground on either side of the gym, which made them a convenient
place to tack up the baskets. Although I imagine that he never thought
anyone would be jumping up that high!
As a side note, Naismith envisioned bball as a game that any number of
people could play, and the first game had something like eight people on
a side! But could you imagine a ten on ten game today?
--Robert Clough
Jerray Wei
You guys do know that at one point people were allowed to broad jump FTs
right? I think Wilt Chamberlain changed that one, just like he changed a
lot of rules. As for having 100% FT...no way...in fact it might even be
less than what they'd normally shoot from the line.
Consider this...both can dunk from the free throw line, but it's far from
easy. The moment they step over the line, it's not a free throw anymore.
Even Jordan in his three dunks from the foul line in the dunk contests, they
weren't behind the line. I do however think Pippen was behind the line in
his contest dunk. They could finger roll it in, but then it would be lame.
And god, how tiring it would be.
Jerray Wei
>
>Really? I had read in _The Modern Encyclopedia of Basketball_ that the
>peach baskets were hung at ten feet because there were two balconies ten
>feet off the ground on either side of the gym, which made them a convenient
>place to tack up the baskets. Although I imagine that he never thought
>anyone would be jumping up that high!
> As a side note, Naismith envisioned bball as a game that any number of
>people could play, and the first game had something like eight people on
>a side! But could you imagine a ten on ten game today?
Well, I don't think people even dribbled those days, the rules were so
different. In fact, there was like a jump ball after every score and odd
number of free throws, etc. In fact, the funniest thing I read was the
discovery of the jump shot. Some dude evidently figured out that if he
jumped before shooting, his friend couldn't block his shot! Hahaha...
Jazzy J
>1. Can any NBA player *not* dunk?
There are many players in the NBA who can't dunk. Mugsy Bogues
being one of them -- not because he can't jump that high, but because
he can't palm the ball. This is probably the problem for many of
those who can't dunk. Believe it or not, former Mr. Dunkenstein
Daryll Griffith couldn't palm the ball. He cuffed all those acrobatic
dunks.
>2. Which player can get his hand highest in the air, and how high?
> (Didn't I hear that some player could make his elbow touch the top
> of the backboard...?)
Jordan supposedly has the highest vertical, measured at 48 inches.
Dominique has quite a leap -- in practice, he used to stack quarters
up on top of the backboard.
>7. Why does the NBA have a 24-sec. shot clock but a 10-sec. backcourt
> rule, while the NCAA has a 45-sec. shot clock and a 5-sec.
> backcourt rule?
I believe that the NCAA does have a 10-sec backcourt rule. The
5-sec rule is applied when a person has possesion of the ball while
dribbling and closely covered, and he doesn't give it up.
Jazzy J
--
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| "I am human and I need to be loved, | Jazzy J |
| just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerray Wei
>
>>2. Which player can get his hand highest in the air, and how high?
>> (Didn't I hear that some player could make his elbow touch the top
>> of the backboard...?)
>
> Jordan supposedly has the highest vertical, measured at 48 inches.
> Dominique has quite a leap -- in practice, he used to stack quarters
> up on top of the backboard.
You know, I can't believe that Jordan has a 48 inch vertical. I mean the
guy can definitely jump, but 48 inches is unbelievably high. I would say
it's closer to 42''...I have good videotapes of all the dunk contests, and
Jordan only gets the top of his head up to the rim. Since is 6'6'', the
math says it's definitely not 48. As for 'Nique stacking quarters on the
backboard, I don't buy that. How high is the NBA backboard anyway? It's
13 feet isn't it? Now 'Nique gets a tiny bit over the rim with his head,
and I don't believe he has three foot long arms (above his head, not from
his shoulder).
You know, it's funny, these two have long held the perception that they are
the highest jumpers because they dunk so well with flair, but it's probably
not true. There are a decent number of NBA players who can fly. The orig.
question asks, who can touch the highest in the air, and I think Shawn Kemp,
Pervis Ellison and Shaquille O'Neal would probably be the top three. First
because they're damn tall and they can still jump as well as guys half a foot
shorter. Kemp and O'Neal...I don't have to explain that to you, but you
might be skeptical about Never Nervous...but being close to D.C., they say
he can touch 12'6'' pretty easily. And although no one watches Bullets
games, boy does he slam and catch alley oops really well.
Toni Morgan
>The college game doesn't have a 5 second backcourt rule.
>THey have a 5 second closely guarded rule(which is also dumb with a
>shot clock), but like the NBA, they have a 10 second backcourt rule.
Wrong group, but isn't the NCAA doing away with the 5 second closely guarded
rule, at least on an experimental basis, next year?
rgds,
T
--
"Rock and roll is more than a haircut." -- Nuno Bettencourt
Toni Morgan (to...@zetaco.com, ...uunet!knute!toni)
Zetaco, Inc. (612) 890-5135
Russ Smith
>Wrong group, but isn't the NCAA doing away with the 5 second closely guarded
>rule, at least on an experimental basis, next year?
I don't know but I wish they would, the rule was put in to prevent stalls, but
with the shot clock its not necessary. The NBA probably had a similar rule
since I seem to recall the Warriors used to have the same hashmarks on the
court that colege gyms have. Now I think the hashmarks in NBA gyms are for
illegal defense.
JTSFMH
>
>Consider this...both can dunk from the free throw line, but it's far from
>easy. The moment they step over the line, it's not a free throw anymore.
>Even Jordan in his three dunks from the foul line in the dunk contests, they
>weren't behind the line. I do however think Pippen was behind the line in
>his contest dunk. They could finger roll it in, but then it would be lame.
>And god, how tiring it would be.
exactly..besides, a free-throw lets them stop to take a breather.. can you
imagine if JOrdan had to contiously do a free-throw-line run? i would take
all my guys off of the bench and foul Jordan when I think he may be getting
hot or something.. it would be a sure-fire way of slowing a person down.
imagine how tired K.Malone would be !!!
cheers
ben
al...@cc.usu.edu
I always thought that but I read in Sports Illustrated a couple of months ago
that the reason it was 10' was because the balcony in the gym at the YMCA is
Springfield was 10' from the floor and that is where they nailed the peach
baskets. It was in an SI where they did a special article on the 100 year
anniversary of basketball. At least that is where I think I read it :-).
Before you flame, I wouldn't put my life on it as I really don't care. Just
trying to pass on what I read.
Trailblazers in '92!
I'm sure he can dunk, but do any fellow Blazer fans remember Terry Porter ever
dunking? I have to admit my memory is not the greatest, but I can't imagine
TP storming down the lane for a monster rim-bender! haha
Jazzy J
>You know, I can't believe that Jordan has a 48 inch vertical. I mean the
>guy can definitely jump, but 48 inches is unbelievably high. I would say
>it's closer to 42''...I have good videotapes of all the dunk contests, and
>Jordan only gets the top of his head up to the rim. Since is 6'6'', the
>math says it's definitely not 48. As for 'Nique stacking quarters on the
>backboard, I don't buy that. How high is the NBA backboard anyway? It's
>13 feet isn't it? Now 'Nique gets a tiny bit over the rim with his head,
>and I don't believe he has three foot long arms (above his head, not from
>his shoulder).
Well, Jordan may have lost a few inches since he's gotten older, but
when he was younger, they tape measured his leap and it was 48 inches.
I'm not sure if this is a world record or not, I think the last
"official" record was held by Darrell Griffith at 48 inches (this
guy could really sky in his prime). The story about 'Nique stacking
quarters is true. Then again, this also happened in his younger
years. Read about it in SI or something like that.
>You know, it's funny, these two have long held the perception that they are
>the highest jumpers because they dunk so well with flair, but it's probably
>not true. There are a decent number of NBA players who can fly. The orig.
>question asks, who can touch the highest in the air, and I think Shawn Kemp,
>Pervis Ellison and Shaquille O'Neal would probably be the top three. First
>because they're damn tall and they can still jump as well as guys half a foot
>shorter. Kemp and O'Neal...I don't have to explain that to you, but you
>might be skeptical about Never Nervous...but being close to D.C., they say
>he can touch 12'6'' pretty easily. And although no one watches Bullets
>games, boy does he slam and catch alley oops really well.
I watched Pervis throughout his 4-year career at Louisville and I'd
have to agree with U totally here. This man can seriously jump.
That's what made him such a feared shot blocker at only 6-9. As U
said, he's got great hands too. He's also an incredible touch passer
from the high post. Can't explain his rookie season, but Never
Nervous is headed for stardom now.
Actually, about the Shaq -- 2 years ago, he could only jump 6 inches
lower than he can now. He ended up working out in the summers to
improve his vetical. He did tons of calf raises every day, and I think
he used those strengths shoes as well. Nevertheless, it's paid
off quite well, I must say.
Bennet Ih - Sun BOS Hardware - Sunergy
> There are many players in the NBA who can't dunk. Mugsy Bogues
> being one of them -- not because he can't jump that high, but because
> he can't palm the ball. This is probably the problem for many of
> those who can't dunk. Believe it or not, former Mr. Dunkenstein
> Daryll Griffith couldn't palm the ball. He cuffed all those acrobatic
> dunks.
As you have just stated, one does not need to palm the ball to dunk. You don't even
have to cuff the ball. I can't palm a ball but I can dunk on a 9'4" rim
(time to do the calf raises...). To put things in perpective, I'm 5'11" with a 29"
vertical. I sincerely doubt Muggsy at 5'3" can come close to the vertical necessary.
to dunk. Figure in his short arms and a 10' regulation rim, he would have to have
something like a 48" vertical to dunk and I don't think he does ( I believe it is
around 40").
Also, a lot of people have been writing that they've never seen so-and-so dunk in
a game. That doesn't mean anything. For a borderline dunker, a lay-up is a much
higher percentage shot. Take John Paxson. He could probably dunk 75% of the
time but would hit an uncontested layup 99.9% of the time so of course he will
favor the layup. And a borderline dunker wouldn't have a prayer at dunking in traffic.
Just my 2 bits.
-Bennet
Jazzy J
> As you have just stated, one does not need to palm the ball to dunk. You don't even
>have to cuff the ball. I can't palm a ball but I can dunk on a 9'4" rim
>(time to do the calf raises...). To put things in perpective, I'm 5'11" with a 29"
>vertical. I sincerely doubt Muggsy at 5'3" can come close to the vertical necessary.
>to dunk. Figure in his short arms and a 10' regulation rim, he would have to have
>something like a 48" vertical to dunk and I don't think he does ( I believe it is
>around 40").
Well, that is true, U don't have to palm the ball to dunk. In my
younger days, I used to be able to dunk on a 9'6" rim and I'm 5'4".
But palming the ball is quite beneficial to keeping control of the
ball. But Mugsy is able to dunk a volleyball -- in fact, I've seen
footage of it done.
> Also, a lot of people have been writing that they've never seen so-and-so dunk in
>a game. That doesn't mean anything. For a borderline dunker, a lay-up is a much
>higher percentage shot. Take John Paxson. He could probably dunk 75% of the
>time but would hit an uncontested layup 99.9% of the time so of course he will
>favor the layup. And a borderline dunker wouldn't have a prayer at dunking in traffic.
>Just my 2 bits.
Certainly. And some of those who can easily dunk lay it in anyways.
Take Ricky Pierce for instance. And, one of the great scorers of
all time, George "Ice" Gervin, almost never dunked, although he could
easily do it.