Shaq: *NO* talent
Kurt Braeckel
Is it just me or is Shaq *THE* most overrated player in the
league. I think that if just about anyone in the world were 7'1" 300lbs
they could do anything Shaq does. He does deserve to be in the league
because of the physically dominating presence that he is. My point is,
he is the least talented player in the league.
Take for example: His inability to hit free throws. Almost
every other all-star center, and quite a few of the upper echelon centers
in the league can, for example Rik Smits is an 81% shooter, but he can't
hit two in a row if his life depended on it.
Example 2: His inability to shoot outside of 3 feet. Once he
leaves the lane, most players don't even follow him because he can't
shoot worth a damn. Smits, as well as Ewing and Robinson shoot
consistenly 50% or better outside of 15 ft, let alone 3.
Example 3: His inabilty to put the ball on the floor. Ewing,
even though he travels 75% of the time, can go across the lane for the
hook, as can Smits, as could Kareem, and David, and Hakeem will put it on
the floor from the arc and drive. Don't see Shaq doing any of that.
+===================================================================+
{ Kurt Allard "Goose" Braeckel }
{ Talk to me, I will listen, }
{ Turn your back on me, I will not fall. }
{ Lean on me, I will hold, }
{ Insult me, I will not cry. }
{ Look into me, you will find gold, }
{ Strike me, I will not break. }
{ I am a rock. }
{ --Kurt Braeckel, Feburary 4, 1996 }
{ Email-- iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu }
{ YOU WILL VISIT http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~silas/hotzp }
{ We have your mom/dog...The role of the plow in the settlement of }
{ Nebraska }
{ ***********************GO PACERS!!!!******************************}
+===================================================================+
Tanya Tompkins
>
> Is it just me or is Shaq *THE* most overrated player in the
>league. I think that if just about anyone in the world were 7'1" 300lbs
>they could do anything Shaq does. He does deserve to be in the league
>because of the physically dominating presence that he is. My point is,
>he is the least talented player in the league.
>
Shaq's development as a player, but I've seen a drop-step and an increase
in his passes from the post this year. He's been playing hurt, so it's a
little tough to gauge just how much he's developed this season (his
numbers are down, but that may be attributed to injury)
> Take for example: His inability to hit free throws. Almost
>every other all-star center, and quite a few of the upper echelon centers
>in the league can, for example Rik Smits is an 81% shooter, but he can't
>hit two in a row if his life depended on it.
True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
> Example 2: His inability to shoot outside of 3 feet. Once he
>leaves the lane, most players don't even follow him because he can't
>shoot worth a damn. Smits, as well as Ewing and Robinson shoot
>consistenly 50% or better outside of 15 ft, let alone 3.
From what I've seen, Shaq's been developing both a hook shot AND a
turnaround jumper this season. How old is he? 23? Give him a few
years. He's definitely a better player than Ewing or Smits and probably
Hakeem at 23.
> Example 3: His inabilty to put the ball on the floor. Ewing,
>even though he travels 75% of the time, can go across the lane for the
>hook, as can Smits, as could Kareem, and David, and Hakeem will put it on
>the floor from the arc and drive. Don't see Shaq doing any of that.
Did you see the dribble penetration for a dunk yesterday when he split
Hakeem and Malone for a deuce? Shaq can handle the ball pretty well for
a 7 footer (not like Robinson, but much better than Smits)
Charles Allen Lewis
at the charity stripe, but nobody will ever question his place in the
annals of NBA history.
Also, the last time I checked, players were not graded on a points per
game per pound basis. I'm sure somebody like Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf would
win that one. Shaq is a great physical specimen. If you've been
watching him this season, you will also notice that he has a nifty little
hook and is starting to develop a nice turnaround jumper as well. As far
as putting the ball on the floor: for a guy as young as he is, and as big
as he is, he runs the court damn well.
I don't know what you would term a "great" center, but Shaquille O'Neal
is definately one of the top 3 in the NBA right now.
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Arun Jagannathan
>
>Kurt Braeckel <iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote:
>>
>I'm not so sure about that. I know that it isn't popular to speak of
>Shaq's development as a player, but I've seen a drop-step and an increase
>in his passes from the post this year. He's been playing hurt, so it's a
>little tough to gauge just how much he's developed this season (his
>numbers are down, but that may be attributed to injury)
I'd have to agree whole-heartedly. He's DEFINITELY not the one-dimensional
player he was as a rookie (or his 2nd year). He tends to ball-fake more
and doesn't barrel to the basket indiscriminately. He's also added a
nice jump hook.
>True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
I think you have to take into account the physical disadvantages he
has shooting free throws, though there's still no excuse for his %
dropping every year and being below 50%. That and the fact that the
"catapault" form he's using does not lead to soft rolls.
>From what I've seen, Shaq's been developing both a hook shot AND a
>turnaround jumper this season. How old is he? 23? Give him a few
>years. He's definitely a better player than Ewing or Smits and probably
>Hakeem at 23.
I don't like to compare centers who play differently. Suffice to say,
however, that Shaq will never develop the outside shooting of a Ewing
or Smits. He can improve, but I see it happening more with his low-post
moves, his passing, and his defense.
>Did you see the dribble penetration for a dunk yesterday when he split
>Hakeem and Malone for a deuce? Shaq can handle the ball pretty well for
>a 7 footer (not like Robinson, but much better than Smits)
Shaq handles the ball fairly well in the open court for a big man, as
long as he doesn't have to move laterally too much.
He looks like he's carrying more fat than last year, I heard that he's
gained 20 lbs., but wasn't at least some of it muscle?
Arun
Roy Navarre
> Is it just me or is Shaq *THE* most overrated player in the
>league. I think that if just about anyone in the world were 7'1" 300lbs
>they could do anything Shaq does. He does deserve to be in the league
>because of the physically dominating presence that he is. My point is,
>he is the least talented player in the league.
My god, I didnt realize Aint got a Clu Chu had croaked! He must have
because here is his reincarnation. The least talented player in the
league huh? My my, you are good sonny! Serious potential here!
I look forward to more of your posts when you arent busy popping
pimples.
>{ Kurt Allard "Goose" Braeckel }
>{ Talk to me, I will listen, }
>{ Turn your back on me, I will not fall. }
>{ Lean on me, I will hold, }
>{ Insult me, I will not cry. }
>{ Look into me, you will find gold, }
>{ Strike me, I will not break. }
>{ I am a rock. }
>{ --Kurt Braeckel, Feburary 4, 1996 }
>{ Email-- iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu }
>{ YOU WILL VISIT http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~silas/hotzp }
>{ We have your mom/dog...The role of the plow in the settlement of }
>{ Nebraska }
>{ ***********************GO PACERS!!!!******************************}
*laugh* I LOVE IT! I LIVE FOR DEBUTS LIKE THIS!
Pinhead
ps you aints a poet, and we all know it.
pps. Pacer fan huh? Figures. Say, u aint Josh's roomie are you?
Kurt Braeckel
> True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
The only reason Wilt was ever any good was because he was 6 inches taller
than anyone else... He'd be an above average player at best today.
>
> From what I've seen, Shaq's been developing both a hook shot AND a
> turnaround jumper this season. How old is he? 23? Give him a few
> years. He's definitely a better player than Ewing or Smits and probably
> Hakeem at 23.
>
Again, he is twice as big as anyone else at his age. He's a freak for
cryin' out loud.
>
you see the dribble penetration for a dunk yesterday when he split >
Hakeem and Malone for a deuce? Shaq can handle the ball pretty well for >
a 7 footer (not like Robinson, but much better than Smits) >
> You don't
even wanna know how much stock i put in the all-star game. BTW, did you
see it last year when he went behind the back between 3 defenders, none of
whom was closer than 6 feet? Gimme a break.
>
>
>
+===================================================================+
{ Kurt Allard "Goose" Braeckel }
{ Talk to me, I will listen, }
{ Turn your back on me, I will not fall. }
{ Lean on me, I will hold, }
{ Insult me, I will not cry. }
{ Look into me, you will find gold, }
{ Strike me, I will not break. }
{ I am a rock. }
{ --Kurt Braeckel, Feburary 4, 1996 }
{ Email-- iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu }
{ YOU WILL VISIT http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~silas/hotzp }
{ We have your mom/dog...The role of the plow in the settlement of }
{ Nebraska }
{ ***********************GO PACERS!!!!******************************}
+===================================================================+
Steven Kim
1. Olajuwon
2. Robinson
3. Mourning or Smits
Tanya Tompkins
>On 12 Feb 1996, Tanya Tompkins wrote:
>> True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
>
>The only reason Wilt was ever any good was because he was 6 inches taller
>than anyone else... He'd be an above average player at best today.
Yeah right, Luc Longley would eat him alive. Get a clue.
George Washington III
Rik Smits still cannot rebound his way out of a paper bag. Yes he is a good shooter, yes he has found that that
is the best aspect of his game, yes, he has made great strides....
All not a factor. If you have the opportunity to build around a once in a generation type player, you do it.
Mourning is not that player. Smits is not that player. shaquille O'Neal is that player. He is 23 years old. His
game has developed an incredible amount in 3 years. It took Rik Smits 6 years to figure out that he is a scorer,
nothing more, nothing less.
For all of Alonzo Mourning's gifts, he has one physical shortcoming.....he is 6'9" tall. Great player, can do a
lot. Perhaps even a more welll rounded player than O'Neal due to his jumper (but you couldn't say that by looking
at his assist total....).
Shaquille O'Neal can dominate a game. Any game. Period. NOthing shortchanging the talents and abilities of the
otheres, but it is true.
And by the way.....if you are 300+ pounds with quickness and agility, don't YOU dunk everything you can, and
develop the outside game as it comes? Much easier to learn a jumper than to learn to be tough.
All this, and I am not even an O'Neal fanatic. But enough of the garbage about O'nNeal not being as talaneted, or
that he "sucks." Give it a rest.....
George Washington III "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
Certified OS/2 Engineer Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.
Vincent Musolino
[Kurt's very interesting posting and Roy's comments deleted]
>
>>{ Kurt Allard "Goose" Braeckel }
>>{ Talk to me, I will listen, }
>>{ Turn your back on me, I will not fall. }
>>{ Lean on me, I will hold, }
>>{ Insult me, I will not cry. }
>>{ Look into me, you will find gold, }
>>{ Strike me, I will not break. }
>>{ I am a rock. }
>>{ --Kurt Braeckel, Feburary 4, 1996 }
>>{ Email-- iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu }
>>{ YOU WILL VISIT http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~silas/hotzp }
>>{ We have your mom/dog...The role of the plow in the settlement of }
>>{ Nebraska }
>>{ ***********************GO PACERS!!!!******************************}
When you read someone quoting himself, you know good times are ahead on rsbp.
>
>
>*laugh* I LOVE IT! I LIVE FOR DEBUTS LIKE THIS!
See, I told you :-)
>
>
>Pinhead
>
>ps you aints a poet, and we all know it.
>
>pps. Pacer fan huh? Figures. Say, u aint Josh's roomie are you?
Now this had me rolling on the floor.
Try and say the last sentence with a Bugs Bunny accent.
I'm dying laughing.
--
--Vincent Musolino
--Physics PhD student, System Manager
I.R.R.MA phone : 0041 21 693 46 00
INR-Ecublens fax : 0041 21 693 66 55
1015 Lausanne (Switzerland) e-mail muso...@irrmasg5.epfl.ch
http://irrmawww.epfl.ch http://irrmawww.epfl.ch/vm.html
"The problem with egoists is that they are more interested in them
than in me."
English Graffitis
Rob Carpenter
>From: Kurt Braeckel <iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu>
>Subject: Re: Shaq: *NO* talent
>Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:01:33 -0500
>On 12 Feb 1996, Tanya Tompkins wrote:
>> True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
>The only reason Wilt was ever any good was because he was 6 inches taller
>than anyone else... He'd be an above average player at best today.
Now you've really done it. First you show your total lack of a brain
by bashing Pinhead logic. Now you go and trash Wilt. You should
expect a major tongue lashing from Judden, soon.
I will now go on record to warn you....Stay away from the GOD of the NBA!!!
Rob Carpenter
Air Judden
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960213165...@expert.cc.purdue.edu> Kurt Braeckel <iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu> writes:
>>From: Kurt Braeckel <iamg...@expert.cc.purdue.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Shaq: *NO* talent
>>Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:01:33 -0500
>>On 12 Feb 1996, Tanya Tompkins wrote:
>>> True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
>>The only reason Wilt was ever any good was because he was 6 inches taller
>>than anyone else... He'd be an above average player at best today.
>Now you've really done it. First you show your total lack of a brain
>by bashing Pinhead logic. Now you go and trash Wilt. You should
>expect a major tongue lashing from Judden, soon.
Why thank you, Rob. You know, I hadn't even LOOKED at this post,
due to the shear stupidity of it's title (yeah, I judge books by the cover).
But when I saw you had responded, I checked out what you had to say, cuz I
figured it would either be witty, or some unmerited hype about Boy Gheorge
that would still be worth reading -- doesn't that just make you feel warm
all over to know that you are up there with Pinhead, Jazzy, and Bobby (who's
posts I'll actually read?)
Now it's time to squash the cockroaches....namely Kurt Braeckel.
Kurt, son. Wilt was 7'0" and you're saying that the next tallest player
was 6'6"? Maybe with the Globetrotters, but NOT in the NBA. Have you heard
of such gents as Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Wayne Embry, Ed McCauley,
Nate Thurmond, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bob Lanier, Elvin Hayes, and Walter
Dukes? All of these gents were over 6'9" with the possible exception of Embry
(I believe he was 6'8"...same height as modern centers Larry Smith and
Oliver Miller). yep. Dukes was 7'0" (and he was a stiff) and Jabbar was 7'2".
The only center who even comes close to your 6'6" statement was 6'7" Wes Unseld
who made the hall of fame and kicked the rears of all of those taller centers
by capturing rookie of the year and MVP in 1969. This is by NO means a
complete list. Wilt's teammate, PF Luke Jackson was 6'10" and at San
Francisco, he had teammates Thurmond and Hightower (who was I think 6'9"...
quite a trio of towers, eh?). Bellamy and Reed played together for quite
a stint at New York.
Even if you took a collection of what I call "Dave Meeks centers"
(forwards who spent very little time at center, yet Dave calls them centers...
for instance, Charles Barkley would be a Dave Meeks center, along with
Bob Pettit (6'9") and Dolph Scahyes (6'8")), you still have guys who are
taller than 6'6" and these guys were forwards!
As for the so called Bushmen who played back then, did you know in
1956, that Atlanta moved 6'4" Cliff Hagen from guard to forward, even though
he was a guard's height, because he was too slow to cover guards. Likewise,
the Knicks moved 6'5" Bill Bradley from guard to forward, and popularized the
"small forward". Hmmmmmm.... 6'4" and 6'5" were considered undersized forwards
and should be guard height? Doesn't 6'5" sound STILL sound like a guard
height? Yeah, that's what I thought...just like 6'5" Oscar Robertson.
Your statement is so absurd, I nominate you for the Pinny award...do
you have that, Roy?
Judden
>I will now go on record to warn you....Stay away from the GOD of the NBA!!!
Yeah, don't mess with the Spoon!
>Rob Carpenter
Rob Carpenter
>From: judd...@ksu.ksu.edu (Air Judden)
>Subject: Re: Shaq: *NO* talent
>carp...@courtjester.llnl.gov (Rob Carpenter) writes:
>>I will now go on record to warn you....Stay away from the GOD of the NBA!!!
> Yeah, don't mess with the Spoon!
DOH!!
Rob Carpenter
>Judden
Christopher Y Lopez
: On 12 Feb 1996, Tanya Tompkins wrote:
: > True. Shaq is a terrible foul shooter. But then, so was Wilt.
: The only reason Wilt was ever any good was because he was 6 inches taller
: than anyone else... He'd be an above average player at best today.
That is the most acinine statement I've seen today. Obviously you know
nothing if not very little about basketball. If what you say is true,
then why doesn't 7 foot guys like Will Purdue, Benoit Benjamin, Hell even
Shawn Bradley score 30 pts a game like Shaq does? They are all 7 foot or
over.
The answer if that Shaq is indeed a very talented player. He has
strength (his major asset) as well as footwork AND desire. If he didn't
have any of these qualities, he'd be just another 7 foot benchwarmer
instead of the starting center for the Eastern Conference Champions.
- Chris
Bo Kwong
Iamg...@expert.cc.purdue wrote:
> Is it just me or is Shaq *THE* most overrated player in the
>league. I think that if just about anyone in the world were 7'1" 300lbs
>they could do anything Shaq does. He does deserve to be in the league
>because of the physically dominating presence that he is. My point is,
>he is the least talented player in the league.
>
> Take for example: His inability to hit free throws. Almost
>every other all-star center, and quite a few of the upper echelon centers
>in the league can, for example Rik Smits is an 81% shooter, but he can't
>hit two in a row if his life depended on it.
> Example 2: His inability to shoot outside of 3 feet. Once he
>leaves the lane, most players don't even follow him because he can't
>shoot worth a damn. Smits, as well as Ewing and Robinson shoot
>consistenly 50% or better outside of 15 ft, let alone 3.
> Example 3: His inabilty to put the ball on the floor. Ewing,
>even though he travels 75% of the time, can go across the lane for the
>hook, as can Smits, as could Kareem, and David, and Hakeem will put it on
>the floor from the arc and drive. Don't see Shaq doing any of that.
Can't agree. Unless you define talent as versatility. Sure, Shaq is no Pippen
and can't do it all. But he is skilful in getting position inside the
paint and thus is consistent in slamming it home. With a massive body,
he is dominating the paint in authority. I can't say such a guy is not
talented.
Charles A. Eck
>> Is it just me or is Shaq *THE* most overrated player in the
>>league.
It's just you.
I think that if just about anyone in the world were 7'1" 300lbs
>>they could do anything Shaq does.
Stanley Roberts? John Williams? Chuck Share of the old
Milwaukee Hawks? No.
My point is,
>>he is the least talented player in the league.
I can name dozens less talented but I do not have the time.
>> Take for example: His inability to hit free throws. Almost
>>every other all-star center, and quite a few of the upper echelon centers
>>in the league can, for example Rik Smits is an 81% shooter, but he can't
>>hit two in a row if his life depended on it.
Well his life must have depended on it at some point because he
has hit two in a row. Does the name Wilt Chamberlain evoke any
memories?
>> Example 2: His inability to shoot outside of 3 feet. Once he
>>leaves the lane, most players don't even follow him because he can't
>>shoot worth a damn. Smits, as well as Ewing and Robinson shoot
>>consistenly 50% or better outside of 15 ft, let alone 3.
Rik Smits is almost worthless if you take away his shooting
ability. A guy who is 7'4 should be able to rebound and block
shots, neither of which the Dorky Dutchman does. Ewing and
Robinson have outside games because their bodies are flexible
enough to accommodate them. They're more like tall small
forwards.
-Scott Powell