LARRY'S BACK !!!!
Peter Ott
After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
26 pts
13 rebounds
9 assists
Any questions?????
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter L. Ott
Liant Software Corporation
959 Concord Street, Framingham, Mass. 01701-4613 - 508-626-0006 x306
James LaPlaine
>For those of you who thought he was finished.
>After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
>
> 26 pts
> 13 rebounds
> 9 assists
>
>Any questions?????
-Jamie
christopher raczka
Calm down Peter, you'll be flooded with mail before long
--
It is much easier to recognize error than to find truth;
for error lies on the surface and may be overcome;
but truth lies in the depths, and to search for it
is not given to everyone. - GOETHE
Mark Shneyder 432-4219
>
>
>Calm down Peter, you'll be flooded with mail before long
>--
the day after the big one in Chicago. That's the true test for the Birdman.
fbr...@ssd.kodak.com
How do you think they will do in the playoffs?
Nirmal Keshava
>In article <1992Mar2.1...@lpi.liant.com> pl...@lpi.liant.com (Peter Ott) writes:
>>For those of you who thought he was finished.
>>After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
>>
>> 26 pts
>> 13 rebounds
>> 9 assists
>>
>>Any questions?????
>>
>
>How do you think they will do in the playoffs?
The Celts will probably be pretty stiff in the playoffs.
The Celts are falling into the same problem the Clippers,
Spurs, and the Sonics have fallen into. Too much good talent,
but not enough "great" talent. The Celts will have to
struggle to get past the first round, because they just
don't have the coherence in their game. Larry will help
that coherence, but only if he trims his game (the
errant passes, ill-advised 3s, etc.). The next
question is: can McHale provide the defense of old that
they will need in the low-post?
NK
Nirmal Keshava
Bell Communications Research
Red Bank, NJ
(908) 758-5954 (Voice) (908) 758-4386 (FAX)
Dave Meeks
Probably the same that the New Jersey Nets did to the Knicks!!!
:-)
--
David T. Meeks ||" Strange how laughter looks like crying
VMark Software, Inc. || with no sound.
uvmark!da...@merk.com || Raindrops taste like tears, without
davem%uvm...@merk.com || the pain."
Robert Ryan Mangiarelli
I agree. I could probably score 26 against the Mavs. But I wouldn't go
so far as calling the Knicks a "real team" just yet. They started out
fine but they're having a lot of trouble scoring more than 75 lately.
-Rob
Sean D. O'Neil
>In article <1992Mar2.1...@ssd.kodak.com> fbr...@ssd.kodak.com writes:
>>How do you think they will do in the playoffs?
>
>The Celts will probably be pretty stiff in the playoffs.
Maybe not. See below.
>The Celts are falling into the same problem the Clippers,
>Spurs, and the Sonics have fallen into. Too much good talent,
>but not enough "great" talent.
Agreed.
>The Celts will have to
>struggle to get past the first round, because they just
>don't have the coherence in their game. Larry will help
>that coherence, but only if he trims his game (the
>errant passes, ill-advised 3s, etc.). The next
>question is: can McHale provide the defense of old that
>they will need in the low-post?
Answer --- No.
Does this mean that the Celtics are doomed for stiffdom this year?
Not really, because the competition is pretty wimpy (with the
notable exception of Chicago). I give the Celts a 75% chance
of going beyond the first round, and a 35% chance of making it
to the Eastern Conference finals. I give them zero chance of
going beyond that. The key to them making it to the Conference
finals to collect their 0-4 butt-whipping (*maybe* 1-4) is
their beating the Knicks for the Atlantic Division, because
Cleveland would most likely beat them as well.
At least I get to watch Bird play for a few more weeks.
Sean
Paul M Mweene
>After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
>
> 26 pts
> 13 rebounds
> 9 assists
>
jj>Any questions????
So he can do things evry body else is doing, is that the highest score that
was scored this weekend?
MURPH
What do you mean true test, i think he proved himself lastnight. But if
you still don't believe in Bird then we will just have to wait to see on the
12th. GO CELTS.
Murph
Dave Meeks
>>In article <1992Mar2.1...@lpi.liant.com> pl...@lpi.liant.com (Peter Ott) writes:
>>>For those of you who thought he was finished.
>>>After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
>>>
>>> 26 pts
>>> 13 rebounds
>>> 9 assists
>>>
>>>Any questions?????
>>>
>>> Peter L. Ott
>>
>>How do you think they will do in the playoffs?
>
>The Celts will probably be pretty stiff in the playoffs.
>The Celts are falling into the same problem the Clippers,
>Spurs, and the Sonics have fallen into. Too much good talent,
>but not enough "great" talent. The Celts will have to
>struggle to get past the first round, because they just
>don't have the coherence in their game. Larry will help
>that coherence, but only if he trims his game (the
>errant passes, ill-advised 3s, etc.). The next
>question is: can McHale provide the defense of old that
>they will need in the low-post?
>
the playoffs, but, alas, won't be able to make it past Chicago, unless a lot
of things happen. I really don't see any other team in the East being able to
beat them, if healthy. Remember, it is pretty hard to have "coherence" in
your game when you have your starting team together for the first time all
season. Remember, Dee Brown missed about 40+ games, Bird about 29 games,
McHale about 15 games, etc... The Celtics are the second hardest hit team
in the league in terms of man-hours lost due to injury. And, probably hardest
hit when you consider WHO they lost. A fair example would be, just how would
the Bulls do without Jordan, Pippen, and say... Paxson??? Or Golden State
without Mullin, Hardaway, and Owens??? I really doubt many teams in the NBA
could have done what the Celtics have done this year with as many missing parts.
Also, they are dealing with having a new point guard, a point guard who is
coming off the injured list that really isn't a natural point guard, etc...
So, they have about 30 games left to get "coherence". If they can do that,
they may have more talent, up and down the bench, then anyone else.
And, as for Larry, all I can say is... pleez.... Just what is a ill-advised
3pt??? When you are shooting 42% from 3 pt. land, I say, shoot the rock...
Errant Passes??? For a man who averages over 6 assists a game and less than
3 turnovers per game, he doesn't have too much room for errant passes. And
remember that many of his "errant" passes are incredible passes that are not
handled by who he passes to. For as long as I can remember, I am amazed at
how Bird gets passes to people like he does, and even more amazed at how
people can drop those passes...
Oh well.. Just like I said... Just a voice of difference...
Dave Meeks
So, tell me... Just how many other people can do this??? Can you give me names
and numbers of "everybody else" who is doing this??? I can thing of
a few people, but not that many...
Nirmal Keshava
>In article <1992Mar2.2...@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> nk1@yakima..bellcore.com (Nirmal Keshava) writes:
>>The Celts will probably be pretty stiff in the playoffs.
>>
>the playoffs, but, alas, won't be able to make it past Chicago, unless a lot
>of things happen. I really don't see any other team in the East being able to
>beat them, if healthy. Remember, it is pretty hard to have "coherence" in
>your game when you have your starting team together for the first time all
>season. Remember, Dee Brown missed about 40+ games, Bird about 29 games,
>McHale about 15 games, etc... The Celtics are the second hardest hit team
>in the league in terms of man-hours lost due to injury. And, probably hardest
>hit when you consider WHO they lost. A fair example would be, just how would
>the Bulls do without Jordan, Pippen, and say... Paxson??? Or Golden State
>without Mullin, Hardaway, and Owens??? I really doubt many teams in the NBA
>could have done what the Celtics have done this year with as many missing parts.
>Also, they are dealing with having a new point guard, a point guard who is
>coming off the injured list that really isn't a natural point guard, etc...
>So, they have about 30 games left to get "coherence". If they can do that,
>they may have more talent, up and down the bench, then anyone else.
>And, as for Larry, all I can say is... pleez.... Just what is a ill-advised
>3pt??? When you are shooting 42% from 3 pt. land, I say, shoot the rock...
>Errant Passes??? For a man who averages over 6 assists a game and less than
>3 turnovers per game, he doesn't have too much room for errant passes. And
>remember that many of his "errant" passes are incredible passes that are not
>handled by who he passes to. For as long as I can remember, I am amazed at
>how Bird gets passes to people like he does, and even more amazed at how
>people can drop those passes...
>
I would say, to some point, you proved my argument, that
the Celts have too much "preparation" to do before the
playoffs. Hey, I would like them to go all the way, too,
but you are asking for a lot of "ifs" to come through:
1. If McHale can be the Mchale of old
2. If Bird can be the Bird of old, and NOT against
the whimps of the league. I remember watching
the Pacers series last year, (I know he was in
a lot of pain) and he tried to carry the whole
team. Lots of leaning 3's, bad passes, etc.
I know he's in better shape than last year, but
he has to let Lewis take over some times now.
He is the real Celtics gun now.
3. If Brown can assume the starting 1-spot and play
it well. Douglas has to pick up the bench role,
and Bagley, hopefully (in spite of how much
everyone praises him) will never be seen again
on the parquet.
4. If someone steps up to play powerful low-post,
intimidating defense: Chief or McHale?
5. This isn't an "if", but why doesn't Ford use a
press type defense? He has the man-power?
Chris Ford is good evidence that a mediocre coach
can't take a team of very good players as far as
a great coach can take a team of above-average
players.
Robert Barton
>After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
>
> 26 pts
> 13 rebounds
> 9 assists
>
>Any questions?????
You forgot to mention that he did this against the Dallas Mavericks.
Mark Shneyder 432-4219
>you still don't believe in Bird then we will just have to wait to see on the
>12th. GO CELTS.
>
on March 11th what you saw on December 25th - Chicago will pick the Celts
apart. Guaranteed.
pa...@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Fine, the Bulls are playing well this year and have a good shot at picking
apart any team on any given night. Yes, the Mavs are having a bad season.
What folks are forgetting is that the Mavs recently beat (rather handily at
that) a Bird-less Celtic team. Remember, LB has played, what, 28 games this
season? Sure, the good numbers were against the Mavs, but they were good
numbers nonetheless and how many players can make such a big contribution
to their teams in their first game back from a long stint on IR? The hope
is that with LB back the C's will be a bit less lost on the floor.
Camden "Snake-Oil" Parks
pa...@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Burt :
keep the stats he's put up in the past. There is no question that Larry Bird
is one of the best players ever (Look at the stats). I say we just sit back
and let Bird do his stuff. He'll prove that he still has what it take to be
an all-star.
Go Celtics
************************************************************
* Burt J. Internet :: h0j...@rigel.tamu.edu *
* Bitnet :: h0j1297@tamrigel *
************************************************************
Dave Meeks
>
>I would say, to some point, you proved my argument, that
>the Celts have too much "preparation" to do before the
>playoffs. Hey, I would like them to go all the way, too,
>but you are asking for a lot of "ifs" to come through:
This may be true. They do have a lot of ifs, though I don't agree with
some of your points below...
>
>1. If McHale can be the Mchale of old
I think McHale has begun to show that he can play again. He started off
horribly, but has look pretty good of late.
>
>2. If Bird can be the Bird of old, and NOT against
> the whimps of the league. I remember watching
> the Pacers series last year, (I know he was in
> a lot of pain) and he tried to carry the whole
> team. Lots of leaning 3's, bad passes, etc.
> I know he's in better shape than last year, but
> he has to let Lewis take over some times now.
> He is the real Celtics gun now.
But you forget that, in large part, he did lead the team last year. And he
was hurting, in a major way. I think this is a major point. He is supposed
to be pain free and able to move better. In his stint in the early part
of the season, before he reinjured his back, he DID look a lot like the
Bird of old, no matter what the team (remember the Bulls game he was playing
hurt). His stats support this, ~21ppg, 9.6rpg, 6.2apg, over 40% from 3pt
land, etc... Lewis is not the gun you think he is. I don't feel he feels
entirely comfortable having to be the team leader. He is a scorer and should
be allowed to do that, but so is Bird. They need Bird and Lewis to be able
to hit the outside shot, Brown to open up the middle by driving (Lewis can
do that as well), and Parish/McHale to dominate the post game... So far,
without Bird in the lineup, they have had a tough time scoring points because
Lewis was their only true shooter. Things improved a little with Brown, who
opened things up a little more. Now, with Bird, their passing, rebounding,
and shooting should improve considerably.
>
>3. If Brown can assume the starting 1-spot and play
> it well. Douglas has to pick up the bench role,
> and Bagley, hopefully (in spite of how much
> everyone praises him) will never be seen again
> on the parquet.
I think Brown will handle the spot just fine. In fact, with Bird on the
court as well, the situation won't be unlike the Bulls and Paxson. Brown
will be the secondary passer, Bird the primary. Brown will penetrate
and create, or pop the jumper..
>
>4. If someone steps up to play powerful low-post,
> intimidating defense: Chief or McHale?
Or Both!!! Or maybe Pinckney...
>
>5. This isn't an "if", but why doesn't Ford use a
> press type defense? He has the man-power?
Here I agree. But maybe we will see that more now. Possibly starting the
first unit (Brown, Gamble, Lewis, Bird, Parish) to get some points, then
bring in Fox, Pinckney, and leave in Brown and Lewis and play some pressure
D. Try to tire the other team out some...
>
>Chris Ford is good evidence that a mediocre coach
>can't take a team of very good players as far as
>a great coach can take a team of above-average
>players.
>
Here I really disagree. Chris Ford has had to deal with more injuries to
key players at the same time than any other coach I can remember. He took
a team without their young star (Brown), their superstar forward (Bird), their
other superstar (McHale), and other various ills (Parish) and tried to
integrate them together with losing their starting PG (Shaw) and their
new PG (Douglass), as well as dealing with Bagley being out of shape at the
beginning, and the mgmt's ill-advised decision to keep Mr. Project (Vrankovic),
and yet, he has turned out a team that now has a lot of weapons, with a lot
of their younger/bench players getting significant minutes (which will help
in the long run), and they actually are in decent position to make a run
at things. I think Ford has done a remarkable job.
--
David T. Meeks ||" Strange how laughter looks like crying
Joe Bennett
Also, when is he planning to play again? Another 2 months?
Boy, he's really earning that $7.1 million.
Joe
Peter E. Wagner
What???? Are you questioning Bird's heart or grit? This is a man who
would play a game and then go spend the night in traction. Thirteen
straight years of sell-outs in the Boston Garden - yeah, I'd say he's
earning that $7.1 million.
Peter
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Peter E. Wagner (401)863-7685 p...@cs.brown.edu
Department Computer Science Box 1910 p...@BROWNCS.BITNET
Brown University, Providence, RI 02912 uunet!brunix!pew
----------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Bennett
>In article <1992Mar3.2...@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, st...@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Joe Bennett) writes:
>|> In article <1992Mar2.1...@oswego.Oswego.EDU> cs-i...@oswego.Oswego.EDU (James LaPlaine) writes:
>|> >In article <1992Mar2.1...@lpi.liant.com> pl...@lpi.liant.com (Peter Ott) writes:
>|> >>For those of you who thought he was finished.
>|> >>After missing 28 games, 1st game back stats:
>|> >>
>|> >> 26 pts
>|> >> 13 rebounds
>|> >> 9 assists
>|> >>
>|> >>Any questions?????
>|> >How will he do against a real team? Like the Knicks?!!?
>|> > -Jamie
>|>
>|> Also, when is he planning to play again? Another 2 months?
>|> Boy, he's really earning that $7.1 million.
>|>
>|> Joe
>
>What???? Are you questioning Bird's heart or grit? This is a man who
>would play a game and then go spend the night in traction. Thirteen
>straight years of sell-outs in the Boston Garden - yeah, I'd say he's
>earning that $7.1 million.
>
> Peter
No, what I am questioning is whether Bird can actually play a string
of games in a row. The man has missed something like 2 complete
seasons due to injury (from ESPN -- they showed Boston's record with
Bird to their record without Bird)
I also question whether those stats are even valid.
Example: when a player comes back from injury and plays limited minutes
and doesn't play well, it is almost unamimously dismissed as "He's not
in game shape yet... He doesn't have his legs..."
So I say about Bird (and Magic in the all-* game) that they haven't had to
face the fatigue and banging that the other players have and their stats
are inflated.
You may disagree, but so what. Neither position can be "proved".
As for the 13 years of sell-outs, are you saying that Bird even sold out
games that he didn't play because of being on IR? Maybe Boston fans just
love their team. The Palace has been sold out every game since it has
been open. In that time, Isiah has missed half a season, Dumars missed
8 games with a broken hand, etc.
It's the TEAM that sells out games, not one player. If it is a winning
team, people will come to see them whether player X is playing or not.
Joe
Peter E. Wagner
|> >would play a game and then go spend the night in traction. Thirteen
|> >straight years of sell-outs in the Boston Garden - yeah, I'd say he's
|> >earning that $7.1 million.
|> >
|> > Peter
|>
|> No, what I am questioning is whether Bird can actually play a string
|> of games in a row. The man has missed something like 2 complete
|> seasons due to injury (from ESPN -- they showed Boston's record with
|> Bird to their record without Bird)
|>
|>
|> As for the 13 years of sell-outs, are you saying that Bird even sold out
|> games that he didn't play because of being on IR? Maybe Boston fans just
|> love their team. The Palace has been sold out every game since it has
|> been open. In that time, Isiah has missed half a season, Dumars missed
|> 8 games with a broken hand, etc.
|>
|> It's the TEAM that sells out games, not one player. If it is a winning
|> team, people will come to see them whether player X is playing or not.
Yes, Boston fans just love their team. However, they love it a lot
more since Larry arrived. Larry has made the Celtics a winning team
for the last 13 seasons. Without Larry, the team is 83-84. Without
Larry, the Celtics would not have sold out the Garden for 13 straight
seasons.
Robert J. Skrobola
>>
>Just to be a voice of difference, I think the Celtics will do very well in
>the playoffs, but, alas, won't be able to make it past Chicago, unless a lot
>of things happen. I really don't see any other team in the East being able to
>beat them, if healthy. Remember, it is pretty hard to have "coherence" in
>your game when you have your starting team together for the first time all
>season. Remember, Dee Brown missed about 40+ games, Bird about 29 games,
>McHale about 15 games, etc... The Celtics are the second hardest hit team
>in the league in terms of man-hours lost due to injury. And, probably hardest
>hit when you consider WHO they lost. A fair example would be, just how would
>the Bulls do without Jordan, Pippen, and say... Paxson??? Or Golden State
>without Mullin, Hardaway, and Owens??? I really doubt many teams in the NBA
>could have done what the Celtics have done this year with as many missing parts.
Keep in mind however, the Celtics are one of the leagues oldest teams...
Not saying they haven't had bad luck, but that's the chance you take by
depending on 33+ yr old stars....
Rob
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Rob Skrobola Institutional File Server Project
Normal Disclaimer: I speak only for myself
-----------------------------------------------------
Paul GOODE
> In article <1992Mar2.1...@ssd.kodak.com> fbr...@ssd.kodak.com writes:
>
> The Celts will probably be pretty stiff in the playoffs.
> The Celts are falling into the same problem the Clippers,
> Spurs, and the Sonics have fallen into. Too much good talent,
> but not enough "great" talent. The Celts will have to
> struggle to get past the first round,
I find this a rather pat analysis. You could apply it to
Portland as well -- one great player supported by a lot
of good players -- but no one expects them to struggle to
get past the first round.
The Spurs' weakness -- well-documented -- has nothing to do
with talent: Every player on their starting five has plenty
of ability, and they have trusted veterans on their bench
as well.
But their talent -- while vast -- isn't complementary. The
front line (Robinson, Cummings, Elliott, Carr) doesn't need another
great player in the backcourt to be optimally effective,
but it does need guards who
stick the jumper reliably. They could also use a legitimate
backup for David Robinson, but that requires an infusion
of more good talent, not great talent.
The Sonics problem is different: Their best talent (Kemp and
Payton) is still developing, and the jury on both players
will probably be out for another couple of years. As for the
Clippers, they've never been healthy enough or coached well enough
to make any kind of judgement at all.
Paul
Dave Meeks
>In article <1992Mar03.0...@uvmark.uucp> da...@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>without Mullin, Hardaway, and Owens??? I really doubt many teams in the NBA
>>could have done what the Celtics have done this year with as many missing parts.
>
>Keep in mind however, the Celtics are one of the leagues oldest teams...
>Not saying they haven't had bad luck, but that's the chance you take by
>depending on 33+ yr old stars....
> Rob
>
Yes, but the Celtics main players are pretty young as well. Gamble (5th
year), Lewis (5th year), Brown (2nd year), Douglas (2nd year), etc...
Granted, Bird, McHale, and Parish are getting up there, but this team is
about as old as, say, Detroit., Milwaukee???, Dallas, Portlan???...
(Ok, only Detroit and Portland are real teams this year, and Portland is
questionable as far as age goes ... Ainge, Cooper, Buck Williams all 10+
years. Kersey and Drexler at 8...
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Rob Skrobola Institutional File Server Project
>Normal Disclaimer: I speak only for myself
>-----------------------------------------------------
