Shaq: Why did he leave Orlando?
Timothy Schmits
Orlando won't be the same without him!!
Brian Antonio Valdez
sch...@spectra.net (Timothy Schmits) writes:
>Orlando won't be the same without him!!
I'm surprised that the NBA fans are counting out the Orlando Magic
simply because of the loss, albeit a big one, of Shaquille O'Neal. While his
presence will be noticable, it won't be as painful as everyone might make it
out to be.
Everyone tends to forget that, during the 28 game stretch at the
beginning of the season that Shaquille O'Neal missed, the Magic, led by Penny
Hardaway, had a record of 20-8, which compares favorably to the 40-14 record
they had when he came back. In order to combat the loss of scoring, other
players, such as Dennis Scott, who averaged over 20 ppg during that stretch,
picked up some of the slack, as well as Hardaway, who averaged in excess of
28 ppg or so during the 28 game stretch. All of this occurred while Jon
Koncak, a perennial backup, manned the middle. It should be noted that the
Magic enter the season with a similar situation.
This is not a Hack-a-Shaq post, and I don't intend it to be. At this
point, it has become tiresome. But, in my opinion, O'Neal thinks he's more
valuable than he actually is. In his absence, the Magic didn't miss a beat.
However, during the absence of Horace Grant, the Magic had a regular season
record of 10-9, not to mention the 0-4 record during the playoffs. While
Shaq's stats are superior to Grant's, Horace Grant brings 3 rings, a bundle of
NBA Finals, and many other "intangibles" that O'Neal doesn't possess. Horace
has been there, and he knows what it takes to get over the hump. The same
cannot be said about O'Neal.
As a Knicks' fan, I'm still a little hesitant about conceding the
division to New York, because the Magic are still dangerous. The Magic might
be more dangerous now than before because of a hunger to prove they can win
without Shaquille O'Neal.
--
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Sharone' Jacobs
> Everyone tends to forget that, during the 28 game stretch at the
> beginning of the season that Shaquille O'Neal missed, the Magic, led by Penny
> Hardaway, had a record of 20-8, which compares favorably to the 40-14 record
> they had when he came back.
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the magic start out like 16-1 or 16-3?
that would mean they FINISHED 4-7 or 4-5. quite possibly meaning the
rest of the league had "caught" on that shaq was missing and this team
wasn't the same. you know, teams probably underestimated the magic
without shaq to start the season, but after their great start, teams once
again took them seriously. regardless, i'm not so sure the magic could
sustain for an entire season without shaq. i'm sure most teams will
remember the start from last year and take the team seriously from the
start while still being confident about not having to face shaq. i mean,
anderson and scott weren't too impressive this postseason. in fact only
shaq and penny even played against the bulls so i tend to think like most
that orlando is in for a long season. remember, this isn't some
defensive stalworth, shaq with his occasional blocks was a large part of
their "team" defense(and no i haven't forgotten horace or even anderson,
but i think that is hardly enough to justify calling them a team capable
of great defense).
MWU
Brian Antonio Valdez wrote:
>
> sch...@spectra.net (Timothy Schmits) writes:
>
> >Orlando won't be the same without him!!
>
> I'm surprised that the NBA fans are counting out the Orlando Magic
> simply because of the loss, albeit a big one, of Shaquille O'Neal. While his
> presence will be noticable, it won't be as painful as everyone might make it
> out to be.
> beginning of the season that Shaquille O'Neal missed, the Magic, led by Penny
> Hardaway, had a record of 20-8, which compares favorably to the 40-14 record
<snip>
> As a Knicks' fan, I'm still a little hesitant about conceding the
> division to New York, because the Magic are still dangerous. The Magic might
> be more dangerous now than before because of a hunger to prove they can win
> without Shaquille O'Neal.
> --
I agree that the Magic aren't exactly going to become a lottery team,
but they're not a contender any longer. In fact, I think that they'll
have a decent regular season, maybe 4th in the East, before getting
drummed out of the playoffs as usual. Their problem seems to have been
a lack of depth -- not depth of athletic talent, necessarily, but of
options. In the regular season, when you play a different team every
night, you can be a two- or three-note attack and still win a lot of
games, because there basically isn't the time for the other team to get
comfortable with your style and then figure out how to exploit it. In
the course of a multi-game series, though, the other team can adjust to
you, and you had better be able to adjust right back. The Magic haven't
been able to do this very well, which is why they have been broomed from
the playoffs each of the last three years. I think they'll cover for
Shaq's points in the regular season, but come the playoffs they're going
to miss having him for other teams to adjust to in an extended series.
Larry Coon
Sharone' Jacobs wrote:
[snip]
> ... you know, teams probably underestimated the magic
> without shaq to start the season, but after their great start, teams once
> again took them seriously. regardless, i'm not so sure the magic could
> sustain for an entire season without shaq.
It could have also been that players like Scott and Anderson were beginning to
wear down from carrying a bigger load in Shaq's absence. Either way, it
doesn't bode well for a team that's going to be without Shaq the entire season,
Felton Spencer notwithstanding.
Larry Coon
University of California
la...@fs2.assist.uci.edu
Roy Navarre
>> Everyone tends to forget that, during the 28 game stretch at the
>> beginning of the season that Shaquille O'Neal missed, the Magic, led by Penny
>> Hardaway, had a record of 20-8, which compares favorably to the 40-14 record
>> they had when he came back.
A whopping total of 3 or 4 or those wins were against
winning teams.
Pinhead
Roger Dal Castello
Timothy Schmits (sch...@spectra.net) wrote:
: Orlando won't be the same without him!!
:
Here's how I see the whole thing (correct me if you think I'm wrong).
OK.
Everyone knew Shaq was going to be a FA at the end of the season, and
everyone knew there might be a possibility that Shaq could be bought
for the right price. So Shaq waits for a club to make him an offer.
The Lakers come up with their first initial offer. Shaq laughs at
it and waits for the Magic to better that offer - which they do
which is where Shaq should've signed and this whole story would
be over now. BUT....Shaq hears the big fuss he's caused. Magic
fans don't think he's worth all that money - they think he's greedy.
They believe it's all about money for him. So Shaq starts thinking
"hey, I don't deserve to be treated like that." He talks with his
agent, and tells him these fans don't appreciate me. At the same
time Orlando management is thinking "Hey maybe Shaq isn't worth it,
if the fans are pissed off." Laker management sits back and looks
at the whole situation - they se Shaq can be coaxed into playing for
LA - He gets a fresh start, he has other business opportunities in
LA, and the Lakers have made the right moves to allow him to sign.
So they make the final offer. The Magic don't make another offer, so
Shaq signs with the Lakers. End of story.
I really believe that's how everything went. Shaq had every intention
of signing with Orlando. The only negative was the contract made to
coach Hill. Shaq's agent made it clear, that he and Shaq both didn't
like Hill - but that wasn't the reason he moved to LA.
Someone give their interpretation of the Shaq goes to LA story.
Rogger
Kevin Galbraith
In article <4unf79$b...@toolbox.rutgers.edu>, bva...@toolbox.rutgers.edu
(Brian Antonio Valdez) wrote:
> sch...@spectra.net (Timothy Schmits) writes:
>
> >Orlando won't be the same without him!!
>
> I'm surprised that the NBA fans are counting out the Orlando Magic
> simply because of the loss, albeit a big one, of Shaquille O'Neal. While his
> presence will be noticable, it won't be as painful as everyone might make it
> out to be.
> Everyone tends to forget that, during the 28 game stretch at the
> beginning of the season that Shaquille O'Neal missed, the Magic, led by Penny
> Hardaway, had a record of 20-8, which compares favorably to the 40-14 record
> they had when he came back.
Just a bit of nitpicking here: 20-8 does not compare favorably to 40-14.
The first is a 71% clip and the second is 74%. Sorry to correct your math,
but if you're saying they're better w/o him, there's simply no factoid you
can use to back it up. Yes, Penny is an elite G, but Penny to Felton isn't
quite as threatening to opponents as Penny to Shaq.
Kevin G
--
Kevin G
galb...@gold.tc.umn.edu
Todd Trubey
Larry Coon <la...@fs2.assist.uci.edu> writes:
>Sharone' Jacobs wrote:
>[snip]
Nick and Dennis always seem to play poorly in the sweeps--statwise. If you
watch the games, what happens is the opposing team finds a way to either
guard them so tightly that they can't take the outside shot after the ball
comes out from near the basket OR they prevent the pass to Nick or Dennis.
It is largely the failure of the Magic offense more than the failure to
shoot well. Also, with a good middle-distance scorer in Horace out, the
Magic offense became even more limited last year vs. the Bulls.
>Larry Coon
>University of California
>la...@fs2.assist.uci.edu
Trube
Boyd M. Reed
On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Sharone' Jacobs wrote:
> > Everyone tends to forget that, during the 28 game stretch at the
> > beginning of the season that Shaquille O'Neal missed, the Magic, led by Penny
> > Hardaway, had a record of 20-8, which compares favorably to the 40-14 record
> > they had when he came back.
>
> correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the magic start out like 16-1 or 16-3?
They started 13-3, then finished their sans-Shaq stretch at 7-5. This,
however, is only a factual observation and doesn't seriously detract from
the point made.
[deletia]
> remember, this isn't some
> defensive stalworth, shaq with his occasional blocks was a large part of
> their "team" defense(and no i haven't forgotten horace or even anderson,
> but i think that is hardly enough to justify calling them a team capable
> of great defense).
I'd tend to disagree with that last statement. Orlando was certainly
*capable* of great defense (and that's meant in more than a purely
technical sense; O'Neal, Grant, Hardaway and Anderson are all capable
defensive players). They often spurned tight D for offensive purposes,
but they could certainly put the clamps on people when motivated to do so
(except for Dennis "defense? what is defense?" Scott). Heck, you replace
Scott with, say, Donald Royal (not an exceptional defender, but at least
he has some defensive skills) and I'd claim you have a pretty good
five-man defensive alignment on the floor.
FWIW, Orlando was #14 in the league in ppg allowed last year, and #5 in
team scoring differential. That, to me, sounds like a team that played
pretty good defense (not the same as "great", I grant you, but clearly
they were capable of playing - and did play - great defense at times).
-bmr-
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Thomas McGuigan
In article <4umlr4$j...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>,
cast...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au (Roger Dal Castello) wrote:
> Lthe Lakers have made the right moves to allow him to sign.
> So they make the final offer. The Magic don't make another offer, so
> Shaq signs with the Lakers. End of story.
I see, you read the authorised Pinhead version.
What actually happened was:
Shaq met with LA Wednesday night/Thursday morning to hear their final offer.
Shaq agreed to meet with Orlando on Thursday to hear Orlando's response to
that offer.
Shaq changed his mind and decided just to sign with LA.
Orlando waited for Shaq to show/call/communicate in any way.
Thirty minutes before the newsconference. Shaq leaves a voice mail message
telling Orlando of his decision.
Somewhat diffferent end of story.
Tom@Atlanta
Douglas Glass
Brian Antonio Valdez (bva...@toolbox.rutgers.edu) wrote:
: sch...@spectra.net (Timothy Schmits) writes:
: As a Knicks' fan, I'm still a little hesitant about conceding the
: division to New York, because the Magic are still dangerous. The Magic might
: be more dangerous now than before because of a hunger to prove they can win
: without Shaquille O'Neal.
True. During a Knicks win over Orlando last spring they were able to beat
them because Orlando kept trying to go to Shaq and Ewing outplayed him on
both ends. Get rid of O'neal and you've got a fastbreaking team led by
Penny and Anderson (who I don't like, but I will admit he can be an
effective player) and Horace (who I don't like, but does know how to run
the break).
Knicks vs Magic for next year will look something like this.
Ewing will eat Spencer alive. Spencer will try to open up the lane for
Orlando by hanging out on the three point line, forcing Ewing outside.
Ewing won't mind. He'll still be able to double down and get rebounds but
won't have to take the pounding of Spencer trying to get position.
Spencer won't mind. The Jazz haven't put a center down low since I can
remember (Eaton was blocking out for others, not for his own offense).
Advantage: Knicks
Oakley and Horace will each try to take the other outside. Horace has been
doing this for two years on since Shaq would get doubled. Oakley is still
the better shooter. If they try to play each other, Grant is the quicker
of the two so Oak won't be able to do much scoring inside. But Grant won't
score from the outside. Just like when Horace was in Chicago they cancel
each other out.
Advantage: Even.
Scott is probably the only SF that LJ can guard. He won't get to play
outside as much since there is no more Shaq. LJ will simply overpower him
down low. And if they switch and have Horace cover him, the same thing
will happen. Scott won't be wide open against the Knicks. It is possible
that they could go small and have John Wallace or Walter McCarty cover
him with LJ on Horace. Either way, the Knicks win the SF battle.
Advantage: Knicks
SG - Houston is the better offensive player, Anderson is the better
defender.
Advantage: even.
PG - Penny eats Childs alive.
Advantage: Magic.
Bench: Knicks have Buck Williams, Herb Williams, John Wallace, John
Starks, Walter McCarty, Charlie Ward and Dontae Jones. The only weak spots
are PG and true power players. But against Orlando the lack of a backup
center won't matter. Against Washington, Indiana and Cleveland it might.
Magic: Koncak, Royal, Vaughn, Shaw??? They lost Bowie and Brooks Thompson.
Losing Thompson will hurt. He'll be a great third guard in Utah and could
have been what Orlando needed to become a great running team.
Advantage: Knicks
Coaching: VanGundy - who taught Pat Riley and Don Nelson a few things vs
Hill (who isn't that bad).
Advantage: Knicks
I don't know how the Magic match up against other teams but if the two
meet in the playoffs - Knicks in six.
My prediction for the East:
Chicago
New York
Indiana
Washington - they could push the Pacers
Orlando
Cleveland - tight race from here
Detroit - to
Atlanta - about
Miami - here.
Milwaukee - These four teams
Philly - are
Charlotte - about
Toronto - even.
Boston - Good luck for Duncan
New Jersey - or Van Horn.
The West
Seattle
Utah - tight race at the top
San Antonio - good competition
Houston - for the next three
Lakers - spots.
Golden State - tight
Clippers - race
Minnesota - for
Phoenix - the final
Sacramento - playoff spots.
Portland - each of
Vancouver - these three
Dallas - might surprise
Denver - will join New Jersey and Boston as the worst teams in the league.
However, the West could change dramatically depending on what happens with
the Suns. With Barkley and everyone healthy they are a playoff team. W/out
Barkley and continued injuries - I hope Duncan likes a dry heat.
Doug