UNC: McInnis and Phil Ford's Wife
hr.house.gov
of Mr. Carolina Basketball? I have heard a lot of crazy rumors about
this and am trying to find the truth. I even heard McInnis might
transfer (to S.Caro?), but this sounds particularly ridiculous given
Nidaye's transfer.
If this is an old topic, I apologize. Any info is appreciated.
Go Wake.
THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS
Thad Williamson
Dean Smith published just this week has Dean referring to
"Jeff" as a huge key to this year's team. And Ndiyae has said
several times McInnis was a key attraction in his transfer
decision.
It is true that there have been lots of wild rumors flying around,
and that lots of people in Tar Heel land were quite worried--stories
of Dean being pissed and kicking him out, that kind of thing. No one
knows what if anything happened. A friend of mine who knows the
team trainer said no such incident ever happened between McInnis
and Ford's wife. That's of course not authoritative, but it's at
about the same level, if not better, than the rumor sources.
Thad
Jason Simon
tradition everything will come up rosy and McInnis and Ford will both
stay at Carolina. Oh well, adultry isn't against any NCAA rules
violations anyway.
Jim Meiman
for two people who get tired to find a place to take a....hey
wait a minute, do you mean they had SEX. Whats the big
deal. I mean its only natural for two people who have no morals
or commitment to jump in bed with each other. Isn't Dean
Smith a fellow who won't let players be on Playboy's all
american team. And he and his wife have publicly stated their
dislike for this kind of publicity/actions. I wonder how this (
McInnis ) will sit with him.
William Judson Ready
>It is true that there have been lots of wild rumors flying around,
>and that lots of people in Tar Heel land were quite worried--stories
>of Dean being pissed and kicking him out, that kind of thing. No one
>knows what if anything happened. A friend of mine who knows the
>team trainer said no such incident ever happened between McInnis
>and Ford's wife. That's of course not authoritative, but it's at
>about the same level, if not better, than the rumor sources.
Nahh, that's not right at all. The truth from the Hill is that Phil had
been sleepin' around. So Mrs. Ford got pissed. She hooked up with
McInnis. Phil found out about this "affair". He told Dean it was either
"He or Jeff" (quit that is). Well the season hasn't begun, [nor have
"official" practices] but Dean must have given one hell of a pep talk
about Carolina Pride -n- such cuz both are still around (for now at
least.)
- Jud Ready ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Georgia Institute of Technology ;;
gt2...@prism.gatech.edu ;; Materials Science & Engineering ;;
;; Atlanta, Ga 30332-0245 ;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Ned Foster
this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
about this time of year before B-ball begins.
Charles E. Kemp
: This McInnis stuff is the dumbest series of posts I have ever seen on
: this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
: about this time of year before B-ball begins.
r.s.bb.c? erudite? are you sure you have been reading the same group I
have?
************************************************************************
It's a thin line between love and crime, and collaboration. -N. Tennant
***** cek...@netcom.com ***** Charles E. Kemp ****** (812) 597-5950 ****
Matthew J. Norris
: This McInnis stuff is the dumbest series of posts I have ever seen on
: this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
: about this time of year before B-ball begins.
What exactly is generating your disapproval, Ned?? There's
substantial evidence that these McInnis rumors are true, so we're discussing
them. Period. The topic will die out a lot sooner if you quit squirming so
visibly when it comes up.
If you're so concerned that the quality of the posts on this board
may be slipping below your assuredly high standards, why not post on a
more "erudite" topic yourself? Surely this would be more effective than
lamely railing against those of us not quite so intelligent as you are.
Thanks!
--
Matt Norris
Wake Forest Law '97
Curt Phillips
[snip]
>deal. I mean its only natural for two people who have no morals
>or commitment to jump in bed with each other. Isn't Dean
>Smith a fellow who won't let players be on Playboy's all
>american team. And he and his wife have publicly stated their
>dislike for this kind of publicity/actions. I wonder how this (
>McInnis ) will sit with him.
Well, he doesn't mind it if his players beat up on their
girlfriends (a la King Rice). Maybe O.J. is their role model.
Evidently his wife didn't protest this much either.
And the anti-Playboy prude wife is Dean's SECOND wife, so he's no
stranger to the wife carousel. (The break-up of Dean's first marriage
was "stone-walled" very well by the press and the Tarheel P.R. machine.)
Of course the real "secret" is that Dean's all P.R. and no
substance.
=========Opinions expressed are solely those of the author============
Curt Phillips, KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "I don't want to achieve
KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net |immortality through my work. I
Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group |want to achieve immortality through
ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh Am Radio Soc |NOT DYING." -- Woody Allen
Andrew Markham
: Ned Foster (nfo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: :
: : This McInnis stuff is the dumbest series of posts I have ever seen on
: : this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
: : about this time of year before B-ball begins.
:
: What exactly is generating your disapproval, Ned?? There's
: substantial evidence that these McInnis rumors are true, so we're
: discussing them. Period.
: Matt Norris
: Wake Forest Law '97
Well, since you're in law school, I suppose you won't mind telling
all of us what this "evidence" is and what makes it "substantial".
Awaiting your reply.
--
Andy Markham - mar...@bnr.ca
UNC Basketball Info - http://www.webcom.com/~markham/unc
GUITERAS
: Well, he doesn't mind it if his players beat up on their
: girlfriends (a la King Rice). Maybe O.J. is their role model.
If memory serves me correctly, I believe King was exonerated--he and his
girlfriend were having an argument, but he never "beat up on her." I
believe this came out in his trial/hearing/whatever (please correct me
if I am mistaken, but I don't think I am). Anyway, there's no
call for comparing _anyone_ in the UNC program to OJ (except Leon
Johnson, and that for his football talents alone). Jimmy Black
deserves strong criticism and probably punishment, but he didn't kill anyone.
: Evidently his wife didn't protest this much either.
Because it didn't happen.
: And the anti-Playboy prude wife is Dean's SECOND wife, so he's no
: stranger to the wife carousel. (The break-up of Dean's first marriage
: was "stone-walled" very well by the press and the Tarheel P.R. machine.)
Dean Edwards Smith is a devoted family man. The end of his first marriage has
nothing to do with anything.
: Of course the real "secret" is that Dean's all P.R. and no
: substance.
UNC 63, Georgetown 62. UNC 77, UMich 71. Dean's all P.R., no substance.
Just trying to set the record straight, no flame intended.
Raymond
Estel Rick Barbour
: Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
: :
: : What exactly is generating your disapproval, Ned?? There's
: : discussing them. Period.
: : --
: : Matt Norris
: : Wake Forest Law '97
: Well, since you're in law school, I suppose you won't mind telling
: all of us what this "evidence" is and what makes it "substantial".
: Awaiting your reply.
: --
: Andy Markham - mar...@bnr.ca
: UNC Basketball Info - http://www.webcom.com/~markham/unc
He has no evidence. He just hopes that if he brings the subject up often
enough people will believe him.
Estel
Thad Williamson
95% graduation rate over 34 years not good enough for you?
thad
Thad Williamson
be teaching at law school these days.
You have NO evidence to back up the McInnis rumors.
I nonetheless agree with the thrust of your evidence,
which I presume was to say that there IS a lot of
talk and rumors, enough to make a reasonable person
ask if there might be something to it. But no
EVIDENCE, concretely, has as yet emerged. Nor is
it likely to anytime soon. The bottom line of
all this is that McInnis is still at Chapel Hill,
and has a good chance of averaging 20 and
rising to all-America status this coming season.
Thad
Matthew J. Norris
: : :
: : : This McInnis stuff is the dumbest series of posts I have ever seen on
: : : this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
: : : about this time of year before B-ball begins.
: :
: : substantial evidence that these McInnis rumors are true, so we're
: : discussing them. Period.
: : --
: : Matt Norris
: : Wake Forest Law '97
: Well, since you're in law school, I suppose you won't mind telling
: all of us what this "evidence" is and what makes it "substantial".
: Awaiting your reply.
Current UNC-CH students who know some of the parties involved have
stated that The Rumor is indeed, true. Local papers, radio and TV
stations have reported the story as well, though few have been so bold as
to specify explicit details.
Oh, and Markham? How about the fact that your beloved school held a
press conference expressly to refute the rumor? That doesn't suggest
anything to me other than fear that the story could get out of hand
because, again . . . it's true.
It happened. Deal with it and move on.
--
Matt Norris
Wake Forest Law '97
Duke University '92
Jason Simon
>Curt Phillips (KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net) wrote:
>: Well, he doesn't mind it if his players beat up on their
>: girlfriends (a la King Rice). Maybe O.J. is their role model.
>
>If memory serves me correctly, I believe King was exonerated--he and his
>girlfriend were having an argument, but he never "beat up on her." I
>believe this came out in his trial/hearing/whatever (please correct me
>if I am mistaken, but I don't think I am). Anyway, there's no
>call for comparing _anyone_ in the UNC program to OJ (except Leon
>Johnson, and that for his football talents alone). Jimmy Black
>deserves strong criticism and probably punishment, but he didn't kill anyone.
>
player, dropped the charges. But, the scene - which was witnessed by a
lot of others at a local bar - is very reminiscent of domestic abuse
where the abused doesn't want to press charges. Incidentally, there was
no hitting, slapping, etc.. Good 'ol King simply had his hands clutched
around her neck as she was trying to breathe for air.
Just trying to set the record straight. ;)
Jason
James C. Armstrong
>Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
>has corroborated Your Rumor. Something tells me you don't have an
>answer for either.
I've received corroboration that the rumor is true from two sources
now. One knows who you are Andy, so I leave it up to him or her to
confirm it for you. The second is involved with the UNC program
who indicated that the "situation" has been resolved.
--
James C. Armstrong, Jr. | Some say the world will end in fire,
ja...@sagarmatha.com | Some say in ice.
j...@netcom.com | From what I've tasted of desire
URL: | I hold with those who favor fire.
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jc/jca/homepage.html
Burr...@mc.duke.edu
>Andrew Markham (mar...@bnr.ca) wrote:
>: Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
>: : Ned Foster (nfo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: : :
>: : : This McInnis stuff is the dumbest series of posts I have ever seen on
>: : : this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
>: : : about this time of year before B-ball begins.
>: :
>: : What exactly is generating your disapproval, Ned?? There's
>: : substantial evidence that these McInnis rumors are true, so we're
>: : discussing them. Period.
>: : --
>: : Matt Norris
>: : Wake Forest Law '97
>
>: Well, since you're in law school, I suppose you won't mind telling
>: all of us what this "evidence" is and what makes it "substantial".
>
>: Awaiting your reply.
>
>stations have reported the story as well, though few have been so bold as
>to specify explicit details.
> Oh, and Markham? How about the fact that your beloved school held a
>press conference expressly to refute the rumor? That doesn't suggest
>anything to me other than fear that the story could get out of hand
>because, again . . . it's true.
> It happened. Deal with it and move on.
>
>
>--
> Matt Norris
It is obvious that Matt is masturbating via the keyboard. Local papers, radio
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^**
and TV stations are not covering the story and the rumor lives almost exclusively
on the 'net.
**Using Matt's favorite phrase, "Let's except it and move on!"
C. H. Nelli
I have been reading this thread for a while now and I tend to agree that as
long as McInnis is playing next year, then there is really no point to
discuss it further. However, I do remember the last rumor involving an
ACC player and sex, etc. When I was a sophomore (88-89), there was rumor
going around at State that Christian Laettner (spelling?) was gay. I
believe it was his freshman year. Of course, I had no way of knowing
this was true or not but I did know that everytime Duke came to Reynolds
he was going to play (and lose everytime I was there!). When he
graduated and was being drafted, what happened? NBA general managers
were looking into to see if he was gay or not. My first thought was,
"You mean they don't know, I have known this for four years". Of course,
now that he is in the NBA and out of the ACC, I don't give a rat's ass to
what he is. :)
However, there is one interesting note. If the rumor is true and the
media knows about it, then it is quite apparent that the media is an
extenstion of the sports information department at UNC. Then again, why
discuss this as well, everyone knows this!
Chris
NCSU '91
Forrest H. Stroud
> A plea: would intelligent graduates/matriculants at UNC-CH please
>take up your school's defense on this newsgroup? The "advocates" here are
>making every one of you look worse by the second, just by association.
> The sad part is that your school is actually pretty good academically,
>and your basketball team has a great history. Unfortunately, the petulant
>whining of characters like Mr. Markham tend to suggest otherwise.
>Powerfully.
>
>
>--
> Matt Norris
> Wake Forest Law '97
Gee...what happened to the Duke U '92 on your sig? Are you worried that
your obviously biased comments might be yet again mistaken as the incessant
babble of a hell-bent anti-UNC poster? FWIW, I know nothing about the
relationship or lack thereof between McInnis and Phil Ford's wife. I do
know that your supposed 'substantial evidence' that might indeed put some
validity into this rumor is mysteriously lacking...
--
Forrest H. Stroud
Neur...@mail.utexas.edu
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~neuroses
The Consummate Winsock Apps List
http://cwsapps.texas.net
--
Andrew Markham
: : Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
: : : Ned Foster (nfo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: : : :
: : : : This McInnis stuff is the dumbest series of posts I have ever seen on
: : : : this normally erudite bulletin board. Must be the lull that occurs
: : : : about this time of year before B-ball begins.
: : :
: : : What exactly is generating your disapproval, Ned?? There's
: : : substantial evidence that these McInnis rumors are true, so we're
: : : discussing them. Period.
: :
: : all of us what this "evidence" is and what makes it "substantial".
: :
: : Awaiting your reply.
:
: Current UNC-CH students who know some of the parties involved have
: stated that The Rumor is indeed, true.
Name one of these students and where you learned that said student
has corroborated Your Rumor. Something tells me you don't have an
answer for either.
: Local papers, radio and TV stations have reported the story as well,
: though few have been so bold as to specify explicit details.
The only thing I remember reading was an article in the N&O that
didn't hint _AT ALL_ to Matt's Rumor [tm], only that there were
rumblings that McInnis was gonna transfer to Michigan (surprisingly
enough right around the time he was seen in Michigan wearing a
Michigan sweatshirt - nah, couldn't be related).
: Oh, and Markham? How about the fact that your beloved school held a
: press conference expressly to refute the rumor?
Ah, now _THERE'S_ evidence. I can see how any reasonable lawyer
would hold that up alone as proof of Matt's Rumor [tm].
: Matt Norris
: Wake Forest Law '97
Boy are your parents gonna be pissed...
Matthew J. Norris
: Not to pile on, Mr. Norris, but it is scary what they must
Thad: you talk much, but say little. Dream on....
--
Matt Norris
Wake Forest Law '97
Duke University '92
Matthew J. Norris
: : Current UNC-CH students who know some of the parties involved have
: Name one of these students and where you learned that said student
: has corroborated Your Rumor. Something tells me you don't have an
: answer for either.
Duh!!!! Okay, I'll sure do that, Andy! Got a crayon handy? You're
such a dip....
Why is it so hard to believe that I might know some UNC-CH students
personally, or that some of them might have access to information you
apparently don't? Or, finally, that said students might wish to reamin
anonymous in this matter? Tough concepts.
: : Local papers, radio and TV stations have reported the story as well,
: : though few have been so bold as to specify explicit details.
: The only thing I remember reading was an article in the N&O that
: didn't hint _AT ALL_ to Matt's Rumor [tm], only that there were
: rumblings that McInnis was gonna transfer to Michigan (surprisingly
: enough right around the time he was seen in Michigan wearing a
: Michigan sweatshirt - nah, couldn't be related).
Like I'm the only one saying this stuff? I read about the rumor
HERE first, silly, then did some checking!
You're not very in the know, I guess.
: : Oh, and Markham? How about the fact that your beloved school held a
: : press conference expressly to refute the rumor?
: Ah, now _THERE'S_ evidence. I can see how any reasonable lawyer
: would hold that up alone as proof of Matt's Rumor [tm].
If you're not clever enough to see the significance of the flaw in
your logic, that your school would hold a press conference specifically
to deny something that you say there's no evidence for, I can't help you.
Apparently the school thought it was important enough to debunk.
: Boy are your parents gonna be pissed...
Really gets me right here, especially since I'm paying for my own
education. Nice try, goofy.
A plea: would intelligent graduates/matriculants at UNC-CH please
take up your school's defense on this newsgroup? The "advocates" here are
making every one of you look worse by the second, just by association.
The sad part is that your school is actually pretty good academically,
and your basketball team has a great history. Unfortunately, the petulant
whining of characters like Mr. Markham tend to suggest otherwise.
Powerfully.
Matthew J. Norris
: It is obvious that Matt is masturbating via the keyboard. Local papers, radio
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^**
: and TV stations are not covering the story and the rumor lives almost exclusively
: on the 'net.
: **Using Matt's favorite phrase, "Let's except it and move on!"
LOL!!
I hope, for all of our sakes, that you're not a Duke student, just
some rude imbecile who wandered into their computer lab by accident.
Oh, and don't put quotes around some silly phrase and suggest that I
said it when, of course, I didn't.
Dolt....
--
Matt Norris
Wake Forest Law '97
Duke University '92
Doug Kinne
norr...@wfu.edu (Matthew J. Norris) wrote:
>
> A plea: would intelligent graduates/matriculants at UNC-CH please
>take up your school's defense on this newsgroup? The "advocates" here are
>making every one of you look worse by the second, just by association.
> The sad part is that your school is actually pretty good academically,
>and your basketball team has a great history. Unfortunately, the petulant
>whining of characters like Mr. Markham tend to suggest otherwise.
>Powerfully.
>
>
Gee, Matt, with all of the bandwidth you've used during the past two days
while vainly attempting to validate a rumor that remains unsubstantiated,
I would suggest that you are not presenting a very good example of Duke
and Wake Forest educational methods.
Your debating skills on the many topics that you profess to be an expert
would be much improved if you would quit with the derogatory namecalling
and just stick with the discussion. Evidently you still need these last
two years of law school to fully comprehend concepts such as "facts" and
"rumor."
To paraphrase from classical literature--
Mr. Norris...you are much sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Doug
UNC '86
Peter McMurry
|> A plea: would intelligent graduates/matriculants at UNC-CH please
|> take up your school's defense on this newsgroup? The "advocates" here are
|> making every one of you look worse by the second, just by association.
|> The sad part is that your school is actually pretty good academically,
|> and your basketball team has a great history. Unfortunately, the petulant
|> whining of characters like Mr. Markham tend to suggest otherwise.
The problem is, Matt, it's become clear that you define "petulant whiners"
as "anyone who is unwilling to take your word for it that the McInnis rumors
are true". Is there anyone on this group who has disagreed with you who
you *haven't* insulted?
Nothing personal against you, Matt; I just find "you just gotta trust me
because I know what I'm talking about, honest, I swear" arguments unconvincing.
This whole argument reminds me of a post I saw around the beginning of
March. It was from a guy who breathlessly reported he had an inside scoop:
Mike Krzyzewski was going to hold a press conference to announce that
(a) he would coach Duke in the ACC tournament, and (b) Vince Carter would
commit to attend Duke.
(In fairness, that poster was partially correct; coach K did, in fact, hold
a press conference.)
Peter
John Stephen Perry
Andrew Markham
: John Stephen Perry <js...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
: >
: > What exactly is the rumor?
:
: As I understand it, the rumor is that George McGinnis and Coach K's wife
: were seen line dancing at a Cowboy bar in Hanover, Indiana. This quickly
: started a thread about Coach K taking over for Bobby Knight at IU so that
: Bobby could decide between the Fresno State and UNLV jobs.
They weren't dancing, George was actually sitting at the piano singing
a song to her. Her name is Kelly and the song went something like this...
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y.
Why? Because you're Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly...
: Anybody hear the rumor that Coach K's daughter beat Jeff McInnis one on
: one in a pickup game?
She didn't beat him up, she merely grasped him by the throat. All
charges were dropped and McInnis was absolved of all accusations.
Russ Smith
<Pine.SOL.3.91.950831...@hudson2.acpub.duke.edu>, John
Stephen Perry <js...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
> What exactly is the rumor?
As I understand it, the rumor is that George McGinnis and Coach K's wife
were seen line dancing at a Cowboy bar in Hanover, Indiana. This quickly
started a thread about Coach K taking over for Bobby Knight at IU so that
Bobby could decide between the Fresno State and UNLV jobs.
However it turned out that Coach K's back prevents him from dancing so his
wife has been going out on her own for some time now.
Anybody hear the rumor that Coach K's daughter beat Jeff McInnis one on
one in a pickup game?
--
Russ Smith
"It was mainly gibberish"
- Mike Tyson on what Peter Mcneeley whispered in
his ear after the "fight".
julianking
academic problems and flunked out. In 30+ years!! Either he only
recruits great students (unlikely, given their sat scores), or the
school helps them a BIT too much. And this is a top academic school?
Even state flunks people out sometimes.
My money is on the help...
Peter McMurry
|> Actually, I'm more amazed that no one - to my knowledge - has ever had
|> academic problems and flunked out. In 30+ years!! Either he only
|> recruits great students (unlikely, given their sat scores), or the
|> school helps them a BIT too much. And this is a top academic school?
Just to clarify: are you saying "Dean Smith graduates too many players. He
ought to make sure more of them flunk out."?
|> Even state flunks people out sometimes.
Why do you use the word "even"?
Peter
Thad Williamson
get plenty of tutoring and help beyond what's available to the
normal student. This is true everywhere. They do get punished
strictly for missing class however, and there have been
2 cases of suspension for academic reasons--Kevin MAdden (probably
the worst high school student carolina ever has recruited) and
Dean Shaffer (busted for cheating and later transferred to Florida
State.)
And by the way, 75 of Dean's former players have gone on to do graduate
work (about 30%). How many other programs can say that?
Thad
BAILEY IRWIN
: In article <42e3ns$5...@parsifal.nando.net>, jdk...@nando.net (julianking) writes:
: |> Actually, I'm more amazed that no one - to my knowledge - has ever had
: |> academic problems and flunked out. In 30+ years!! Either he only
: |> recruits great students (unlikely, given their sat scores), or the
: |> school helps them a BIT too much. And this is a top academic school?
: Just to clarify: are you saying "Dean Smith graduates too many players. He
: ought to make sure more of them flunk out."?
Well put, Peter. The previous post by Julian King perfectly embodies the
comical lack of logic of the brainless Carolina-hater. Yep, that nasty
ole Dean Smith graduates way too many of his players. Come to think of
it, he wins way too many of his games, too! And his players are just a
little TOO good, if you know what I mean. If that doesn't prove he can't
really coach, I don't know what does!
Hey losers: Dean Smith is God. Learn to live with it.
BAILEY IRWIN
Organization: Vnet Internet Access, Inc. - Charlotte, NC. (704) 374-0779
Distribution: world
Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
: Duh!!!! Okay, I'll sure do that, Andy! Got a crayon handy? You're
: such a dip....
Ah, the joys of Matthew J. Norris, the great communicator. Such wit, such
finesse. You haven't changed a bit since last season.
: Why is it so hard to believe that I might know some UNC-CH students
: personally, or that some of them might have access to information you
: apparently don't? Or, finally, that said students might wish to reamin
: anonymous in this matter? Tough concepts.
Matt, given your personality, it's hard to believe you know ANYBODY
personally, much less anyone with the good taste to choose UNC.
As far as "access to information"...well, that demands some
certification. Tell me a staff writer for the DTH who said so and I might
be impressed, but you're simply trying to pass off a rumor as fact.
Since you're too scared to quote any actual person who really does have
"access to information" about the UNC basketball program, I will. I
happen to be close friends with Brock Page, staff writer for Carolina
Blue magazine, and he tells me that this whole rumor is a bunch of crap.
Brock says all the players think it's quite amusing. He tells me that
John Kilgo explains the rumor by saying that idiot Duke fans felt the
need to slander Carolina's program however they could after last year's
fiasco of having a player convicted of cheating, not to mention the old
2-14 record I'm sure you'd like to forget. When your team can't even make
the NIT, you have a lot of extra time to brood.
That theory explains a lot, doesn't it? Since you Dookies have nothing to
crow about with your basketball team, either on the court or off, you
have to resort to this. The sheer venom and incoherence of your posts
tells the world all they need to know about who started this completely
unsubstantiated rumor, and what kinds of people are keeping it alive
despite an absolute lack of evidence.
P.S.: Please don't call me any mean names like "dip" or I might cry. It
might look like I'm laughing, but I'm really crying.
Rob Mac K
>
>And by the way, 75 of Dean's former players have gone on to do graduate
>work (about 30%). How many other programs can say that?
Probably quite a few. 30% isn't really that impressive.
- Rob Mac K
--
*** Rob Mac K ****************************************** Duke '93 ***
** ]}uke Blue Devils ** Will Engineer **
** 1991 National Champions 1992 ** For Food **
************************* blud...@gate.net *************************
Rob Mac K
>Hey losers: Dean Smith is God. Learn to live with it.
I think the "losers" believe this already.
[grin]
Rob Mac K
>happen to be close friends with Brock Page, staff writer for Carolina
>Blue magazine, and he tells me that this whole rumor is a bunch of crap.
>Brock says all the players think it's quite amusing. He tells me that
>John Kilgo explains the rumor by saying that idiot Duke fans felt the
FWIW, I don't really give a crap whether this rumor is true or not, but
do you have any idea what quoting Kilgo does to your credibility? He
reminds me of Bradley Smith (revisionist historian who runs around trying
to "prove" that the holocaust never happened).
Matthew J. Norris
all. Whenever he opens his cybermouth, his team and his school drop
geometrically in stature. This is exciting; I'm sure I'll learn much from
his wit and wisdom in the weeks and months ahead.
BAILEY IRWIN (nigh...@jazzmin.vnet.net) excreted:
: Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
: : Duh!!!! Okay, I'll sure do that, Andy! Got a crayon handy? You're
: : such a dip....
: Ah, the joys of Matthew J. Norris, the great communicator. Such wit, such
: finesse. You haven't changed a bit since last season.
Thanks; uh, where have you been? Not that I've been looking for you.
: : Why is it so hard to believe that I might know some UNC-CH students
: : personally, or that some of them might have access to information you
: : apparently don't? Or, finally, that said students might wish to reamin
: : anonymous in this matter? Tough concepts.
: Matt, given your personality, it's hard to believe you know ANYBODY
: personally, much less anyone with the good taste to choose UNC.
Ho, ho! I weep with jealousy.
: As far as "access to information"...well, that demands some
: certification. Tell me a staff writer for the DTH who said so and I might
: be impressed, but you're simply trying to pass off a rumor as fact.
Huh?
For the record, Bailey-boy, I have never - - not once - - explained
or detailed this "rumor" in any way on this newsgroup, nor anywhere else
for that matter. Strangely enough, however, everyone, including you,
seems to know exactly what the "rumor" is. Why is that?
I love how you imply that only members of that elite journalistic
force, the Daily Tarheel, could possibly have any correct information on
this matter. I guess ordinary UNC-CH students, even if they have certain
intimate knowledge of matters about which the Daily Tarheel hasn't a
clue, must all be uninformed morons. That's your interpretation, supported
by your point above, not mine. I know a number of great people who are at
UNC-CH now or graduated very recently, and none of them are nearly as
febrile, fatuous or logic-impaired as you.
: Since you're too scared to quote any actual person who really does have
: "access to information" about the UNC basketball program, I will.
I'm not scared, pal. It's this simple: no one at UNC-CH with any real
information in this matter wants to open themselves up to attacks by
overserious jokers like yourself that they've "betrayed their school" or
any other such crap.
: I
: happen to be close friends with Brock Page, staff writer for Carolina
: Blue magazine, and he tells me that this whole rumor is a bunch of crap.
Whoa. THE Brock Page? I retract everything I've said about this
situation; Mr. Page is undoubtedly the least biased, most knowledgeable
person around when it comes to UNC-CH affairs.
: Brock says all the players think it's quite amusing.
Do you take us for fools? Say that again with a straight face. If
this is all so amusing to everyone, why the earnest denials? Why are you
typing in your typically breathless, illogical tripe here instead of just
laughing this rumor off and playing some ping-pong?
: He tells me that
: John Kilgo explains the rumor by saying that idiot Duke fans felt the
: need to slander Carolina's program however they could after last year's
: fiasco of having a player convicted of cheating, not to mention the old
: 2-14 record I'm sure you'd like to forget. When your team can't even make
: the NIT, you have a lot of extra time to brood.
I said all along that if Newton were guilty, he should be punished,
and he was. Console yourself with what a dishonest little cuss he might
have been when he's slamming down monster dunks in your players' faces this
season.
Be very, VERY careful whenever you start throwing around legal
terms you don't understand. Slander, in the general sense, requires that
harmful statements be made alleging matters that aren't true. In this
case, no Duke backer on r.s.b.c that I'm aware of, and certainly not me,
has ever made any substantive allegations concerning this situation. We
have said only that a persistent rumor exists concerning certain conduct on
the part of Jeff McInnis. You just can't slander, or libel, someone
merely by saying that a rumor exists without providing any specifics.
Since I'm certain that your brain is already struggling into overdrive,
I'll spare you any discussion of the necessity of publication, the
libel/slander distinction as applied to the Internet, or the public
figure exemption.
Incidentally, if you want to know how the rumor got started, don't look
to any Duke grads; I heard it for the first time HERE, from someone who
went to school elsewhere. A few days later, I asked around at UNC-CH, where
the rumor was in full circulation. So don't hand us any garbage that this
rumor has been manufactured by petulant Duke fans.
You make me very sad, my friend, largely because I'm certain that
when rumors circulated about Laettner's personal life (obviously prompted
by a deep jealousy), you seized on them with both talons and held on for
dear life. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, of course, you can't
take it.
: That theory explains a lot, doesn't it? Since you Dookies have nothing to
: crow about with your basketball team, either on the court or off, you
: have to resort to this. The sheer venom and incoherence of your posts
: tells the world all they need to know about who started this completely
: unsubstantiated rumor, and what kinds of people are keeping it alive
: despite an absolute lack of evidence.
Oh, please. An absolute lack of evidence means that there's
absolutely no evidence to support a proposition, not that there's plenty
of evidence that you may not want to consider, or don't believe.
As for keeping the rumor alive, I haven't posted anything on the
subject in over a week; I prefer to chat about UNC-CH's knee-slapping
nonconference schedule. You and your cronies are the ones repeatedly
raising the issue, apparently thinking you can address it in some
brand-new way. Actually, you've got nothing to add. If you really respect
McInnis and are tired of hearing about this, blah blah, why not wipe off
the drool, tuck in your shirt and LET IT DROP, as we have.
: P.S.: Please don't call me any mean names like "dip" or I might cry. It
: might look like I'm laughing, but I'm really crying.
I repeat my call, issued last week, for intelligent Tarheel
grads/matriculants who aren't babies and can think rationally to post on
this newsgroup. I'm sure many of them would be appalled by the
ultrabiased, irrational and unknowledgeable perspective offered by many
Tarheel regulars here.
Frankly, we're all sick of some of these idiots, who feel that
UNC-CH can do no wrong, and insist on hollering inchoately about it
whenever they saunter into a computer lab. Enough already.
By the way, to dispel any notions that I might be just the sort of
Duke fan I've described above, I thought last year's team sucked, that
Gaudet was a tool and a clown, and I really dislike Steve Wojciechowski.
Oh, and I don't think Duke is the greatest school around, either.
The bottom line is: UNC-CH and their basketball players aren't
nearly as bad as some of their fans; I'd take McInnis out to dinner, my
treat, before I'd so much as shake hands with "Bailey Irwin".
Oh, and "Bailey"? Spare me any more of the sweaty e-mail you inundated
me with last year; just say what you have to say here.
--
Matt Norris
Wake Forest Law '97
Duke University '92
EStevens
Norris) wrote:
<entire response of Matt to Bailey Irwin deleted>
Matt, I wish that all your posts were this well written. Has the start of
fall classes inspired you?
EStevens
Kevin Denelsbeck
Rob Mac K <blud...@news.gate.net> wrote:
>In article <APC&1'0'7cf60e0f'6...@igc.apc.org> Thad Williamson <thwill...@igc.apc.org> writes:
>>
>>And by the way, 75 of Dean's former players have gone on to do graduate
>>work (about 30%). How many other programs can say that?
>
>Probably quite a few. 30% isn't really that impressive.
For a regular student body, no. But 30% for athletes sounds darn
impressive to me. Heck, there are plenty of basketball programs in
this country where graduation rates (for *bachelor's* degrees) is
below that figure.
Thad's statistic will be a nice one to trot out the next time someone
brings that "UNC is a basketball factory" noise.
Kevin
--
Kev @ UNC _|_ SOME POP WISDOM
(dene...@cs.unc.edu) | There's more to life
(http://www.cs.unc.edu:80/ | but what can it be?
~denelsbe) _/~~~\_ -- "Game Boy", Shampoo
BAILEY IRWIN
: : As far as "access to information"...well, that demands some
: : certification. Tell me a staff writer for the DTH who said so and I might
: : be impressed, but you're simply trying to pass off a rumor as fact.
: Huh?
: For the record, Bailey-boy, I have never - - not once - - explained
: or detailed this "rumor" in any way on this newsgroup, nor anywhere else
: for that matter. Strangely enough, however, everyone, including you,
: seems to know exactly what the "rumor" is. Why is that?
Sure, I've heard it. We've all heard it, silly boy. That hardly means
that it must be true. We've all heard about dead mice in Coke bottles
too, but it's a provable fact that no such thing ever happened.
The only "proof" you can offer for this nonsense is:
1. It seems like everyone has heard this rumor.
2. Dean Smith and McInnis had a press conference to deny it.
Interesting. Last year, everybody was abuzz at the rumor that Coach K
would return to coaching Duke for the ACC tournament, remember? And you
may also recall that Mikey held a press conference that week in which he
explicitly stated that he would do no such thing.
So did we see Mike's ugly face in the coaches box that weekend? Nope. Nor
is there the slightest truth to this nonsense.
: I'm not scared, pal. It's this simple: no one at UNC-CH with any real
: information in this matter wants to open themselves up to attacks by
: overserious jokers like yourself that they've "betrayed their school" or
: any other such crap.
This might fool other people across the country who might be reading
this, but I happen to know people "with real information in this matter",
and I know you're lying.
Quit hiding behind these excuses. If you really have "real information",
share with us and provide tracable sources, like I did, or simply stop
beating this dead horse. You know, put up or shut up. And since you've
repeatedly decline to put up, then I assume you will...
: Whoa. THE Brock Page? I retract everything I've said about this
: situation; Mr. Page is undoubtedly the least biased, most knowledgeable
: person around when it comes to UNC-CH affairs.
As opposed to YOU, or these phantom people you quote? Let's see, who
should I believe...a close friend with an office in the Smith Center who
speaks with the coaches and players daily, or some wacko flamebaiter on
the internet with an irrational jealousy of UNC's basketball program? Boy,
that's a tough call.
: : Brock says all the players think it's quite amusing.
: Do you take us for fools? Say that again with a straight face. If
: this is all so amusing to everyone, why the earnest denials? Why are you
: typing in your typically breathless, illogical tripe here instead of just
: laughing this rumor off and playing some ping-pong?
Sound logic. If someone says it isn't true, that PROVES that it is true.
I responded to your original post simply because I had some information
on the matter, and a SOURCE to quote to back it up, as opposed to you.
: I said all along that if Newton were guilty, he should be punished,
: and he was.
When he's kicked out of Duke, or at least off the team, then get back to
me. Until then we all know your "honor code" is a farce.
: Console yourself with what a dishonest little cuss he might
: have been when he's slamming down monster dunks in your players' faces this
: season.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You're talking about GREG NEWTON here?
Boy, you really *are* delusional. Will Greg be raining in three-pointers
on us too?
: You make me very sad, my friend, largely because I'm certain that
: when rumors circulated about Laettner's personal life (obviously prompted
: by a deep jealousy), you seized on them with both talons and held on for
: dear life. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, of course, you can't
: take it.
Actually, this cuts right to the heart of the matter. I don't give a
rat's butt about Laettner's personal life, and I defy you to note when
I've ever made it an issue. But if Carolina had gone 2-14 last year, I might
be so desperate to divert attention from that fact that I'd be posting
TONS of messages re Christian's supposed homosexuality.
So there we have it. While UNC fans talk about our recent visit to the
Final Four, or our 5-game winning streak vs Dook in basketball, or our
5-game winning streak vs Dook in football, you and EStevens are talking
about...well, THIS. Kinda speaks volumes, huh?
And while we're on the subject: we all know the rumor about C.L., and his
senior year at Duke, he called a press conference to deny it. So by your
logic, may we conclude those stories must be true?
: By the way, to dispel any notions that I might be just the sort of
: Duke fan I've described above, I thought last year's team sucked, that
: Gaudet was a tool and a clown, and I really dislike Steve Wojciechowski.
: Oh, and I don't think Duke is the greatest school around, either.
None of this at all resembles what you said last year. But I'm glad to
see you've finally embraced the truth, however late. Now, about Greg
Newton's "monster slam dunks"...
: Oh, and "Bailey"? Spare me any more of the sweaty e-mail you inundated
: me with last year; just say what you have to say here.
Your hallucinations are very vivid indeed if you think that e-mail can
sweat. (But not as vivid as Greg Newton slamming on Carolina every play.)
And relax, I'll save any e-mail until we beat you for the SIXTH time in a
row. Be thinking up some new rumors to talk about then! And good luck
losing your next football game by less than seven touchdowns.
As for this matter, I believe it's been settled. Bye.
Rob Mac K
>In article <42h9qi$23...@hopi.gate.net>,
>Rob Mac K <blud...@news.gate.net> wrote:
>>In article <APC&1'0'7cf60e0f'6...@igc.apc.org> Thad Williamson <thwill...@igc.apc.org> writes:
>>>
>>>And by the way, 75 of Dean's former players have gone on to do graduate
>>>work (about 30%). How many other programs can say that?
>>
>>Probably quite a few. 30% isn't really that impressive.
>
>For a regular student body, no. But 30% for athletes sounds darn
>impressive to me. Heck, there are plenty of basketball programs in
>this country where graduation rates (for *bachelor's* degrees) is
>below that figure.
Well, I'd venture to speculate that it probably is higher than average
for a basketball program. But I bet there aren't similar statistics
available for other schools, by and large. Thus, "30%" is irrelevant for
comparisons. Not enough data. While I agree that it is a good thing
that 30% of Deano's scholars go on to graduate study, how do you know
that the national average isn't 40%? (Granted, unlikely. But possible.)
>Thad's statistic will be a nice one to trot out the next time someone
>brings that "UNC is a basketball factory" noise.
This would be a great statistic to have if you were running for office or
something. It sounds good, but no one knows what it really means in
terms of the big picture. Is it something to brag about, or something to
hang your head over? No one really knows.
BTW, Thad, where did that 30% figure come from? Your buddies over at
Carolina Blue again? Just curious.
Rob Mac K
>
>And while we're on the subject: we all know the rumor about C.L., and his
>senior year at Duke, he called a press conference to deny it. So by your
>logic, may we conclude those stories must be true?
Liar, liar, pants on fire. Do your homework next time. I assume you
attended this phantom "press conference"? Or did your buddy Brock Page
fill you in on the details?
Rob Mac K
>something (:-o). Let me make one slight distinction, which I wager
>Rob would agree with. Namely, if a basketball program has even 1% of
>its athletes go on to graduate study, that should be considered a
>Good Thing and no cause for shame. That is, any positive rate for
>graduate studies should be considered icing on the cake. It sure
>isn't crucial, but it's a Good Thing.
Good call. Raise yer glasses and let's have another round. :)
Although, just wondering, you make the comment about "any positive rate"
above... how would you define a negative rate? Players who dropped out
of graduate school because of basketball? :)
>That said, I still find the 30% figure a little astonishing. I could
>see where perhaps the Ivies might sport a figure like that (or,
>likely, higher), but for a competitive program like UNC's I think
>it's pretty amazing. I wonder how Stanford, Duke, Cal, etc.,
>compare. Again, it's hardly important, but I do wonder.
Yeah, I wonder too. Just thinking back to what I know about the eventual
fortunes of Coach K's troops, I suspect their figure would be similar.
One thought I'll throw out for discussion is that without having any
statistics to back myself up (grin), I'd say Dean is more likely to
encourage a player to redshirt than K is. Therefore, assuming the player
graduates in four years, he gets a free year of grad school (which,
depending on your discipline, should be enough to get you within spitting
distance of an MA/MS).
>Undergraduate graduation rate is a much more salient statistic.
Agreed. But as the off-season ever-so-slowly makes its way towards
October 15, at least we've found a new topic to discuss. :)
Kevin Denelsbeck
Rob Mac K <blud...@news.gate.net> wrote:
>In article <42r0t3$8...@carter.cs.unc.edu> dene...@cs.unc.edu (Kevin Denelsbeck) writes:
>>Thad's statistic will be a nice one to trot out the next time someone
>>brings that "UNC is a basketball factory" noise.
>
>This would be a great statistic to have if you were running for office or
>something. It sounds good, but no one knows what it really means in
>terms of the big picture. Is it something to brag about, or something to
>hang your head over? No one really knows.
Well, for once I think Rob and I are pretty much in agreement on
something (:-o). Let me make one slight distinction, which I wager
Rob would agree with. Namely, if a basketball program has even 1% of
its athletes go on to graduate study, that should be considered a
Good Thing and no cause for shame. That is, any positive rate for
graduate studies should be considered icing on the cake. It sure
isn't crucial, but it's a Good Thing.
That said, I still find the 30% figure a little astonishing. I could
see where perhaps the Ivies might sport a figure like that (or,
likely, higher), but for a competitive program like UNC's I think
it's pretty amazing. I wonder how Stanford, Duke, Cal, etc.,
compare. Again, it's hardly important, but I do wonder.
Undergraduate graduation rate is a much more salient statistic.
Thad Williamson
The exact figures are 75 out of 172 letterman (this includes
managers), and 56 of 139 players through the 1989 graduating class.
Since I cant think of any from 90-95 who are in grad school (though Henrik
Rodl plans to go to medical school and probably some of the walkons have
too), I rounded this done to roughly 30% as a current stat. I don't have
the most recent info.
Another way to look at it is that through 1989 38 of the 175 players had
made it to the
NBA. One could say that roughly 50%, through 1989, of Dean's players who
did not make it to the nba did make it to grad school.
By the way Rob, I have never attributed any info presented here to
Carolina Blue--you've got me mixed up with someone else. I will confess
that I do subscribe to it, and have ever since leaving Chapel Hill
7 years ago and finding that not every paper in America will print
top 25 boxscores! I think John Kilgo can be way overblown, but often
agree with him too. He's a genuine 100% booster, that's his professional
identity, for better and at times worse. (To give two examples where
I fiercely disagree with him, he wants to cut division 1 hoops down
to just 120 or so teams and make it like football--this is just
a redistribute the wealth to the top scheme and angers me; and he totally
whitewashed the obvious chemistry and enthusiasm problems druing the
93-94 season. And of course he has the unenviable task of having
to defend Carolina football. I do think he's right more often
than you might think, but I'm no Kilgo-swallow wholer, and can
definitely understand criticism of such a person. I also know Brock
Page, the staff writer, but only because we both grew up in Chapel Hill
together, lived in the same neighborhood, and played on the same
rec league basketball teams. Haven't communicated with him in years,
but he's a good guy and entertaining writer (from a carolina blue
perspective.) And
finally, one last full disclosure, my closest connection to
carolina hoops was that I used to operated the wooden scoreboard in
the corner at the end of the carolina bench that was there between
1968 and 1988 (I did it from 82-83 to 87-88). The purpose was to
allow the coaches to have a running score on their game films, in the days
before technology made that a piece of cake. It was discontinued after
88 so some may not know what I'm talking about. Anyway, bottom line is
I do have some more intimate than most connections with carolina
(though only slightly above average for anyone growing up in Chapel
Hill), but don't call me john kilgo!
cheers,
Thad
EStevens
IRWIN) wrote:
> Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
>
> : Whoa. THE Brock Page? I retract everything I've said about this
> : situation; Mr. Page is undoubtedly the least biased, most knowledgeable
> : person around when it comes to UNC-CH affairs.
>
> As opposed to YOU, or these phantom people you quote? Let's see, who
> should I believe...a close friend with an office in the Smith Center who
Wow, an office in the Smith Center. Is Brock a janitor?
> : I said all along that if Newton were guilty, he should be punished,
> : and he was.
>
> When he's kicked out of Duke, or at least off the team, then get back to
> me. Until then we all know your "honor code" is a farce.
With this in mind, would you please tell me how King Rice's parole
hearings fared last month?
> Actually, this cuts right to the heart of the matter. I don't give a
> rat's butt about Laettner's personal life, and I defy you to note when
> I've ever made it an issue. But if Carolina had gone 2-14 last year, I might
> be so desperate to divert attention from that fact that I'd be posting
> TONS of messages re Christian's supposed homosexuality.
My my Bailey. All this talk about "butt"s and "be"ing "desparate"...
> So there we have it. While UNC fans talk about our recent visit to the
> Final Four, or our 5-game winning streak vs Dook in basketball, or our
> 5-game winning streak vs Dook in football, you and EStevens are talking
> about...well, THIS. Kinda speaks volumes, huh?
Please explain to me how "THIS" topic relates to my post to Matt.
> And while we're on the subject: we all know the rumor about C.L., and his
> senior year at Duke, he called a press conference to deny it. So by your
> logic, may we conclude those stories must be true?
It's funny that I don't remember this press conference at all. Could you
be more specific?
EStevens
Marsha Gayle Johnson
: >>>And by the way, 75 of Dean's former players have gone on to do graduate
: >>>work (about 30%). How many other programs can say that?
I'm sure there is some catch to this..it probably only counts the players who
graduated, and since nearly all of Smith's good players leave school before
they graduate, that isn't really impressive at all.
Plus, this means that a kid could go to grad school for one day and decide
it'stoo tough for him and drop out, and still be counted in the "graduate
work" column.
That 30 percent statistic really says nothing.
Thad Williamson
175. And the grad school figures count persons who attended at least
one full year.
To take one class, 1976, here's what it looks like:
Bill Chambers, Masters of Education
Dave Hanners, Masters of Education
Mitch Kupchack, MBA
Tony Shaver, MAT (masters of arts in teaching)
Three of these wer people who played! and one was an all-american.
Let's take a more recent class now, 1986:
John Brownlee, no study (as of 1991)
Brad Daugherty, no study (NBA)
James Daye, no study (but incidentally he was certified as a teacher
under a special UNC program where you get certification as an undergrad)
Steve Hale, MD
Warren Martin, Education (teacher certification program)
Again, 3 of these 5 players were major contributors to CArolina on the
court, and Brownlee transferred to Texas and was SWC player of the year in
86.
Finally, lest my earlier note that I don't know of any graduates since
90 who are in grad school, this is mainly because almost all are involved
in pro basketball (somewhere!) It's likely at least a few will eventually
go back to school. There are simply more opportunities out there for the
average college player to play pro than 20 years ago.
Hence (and I exclude walkons here):
class of 90
Scott Williams, NBA
Kevin Madden, hoping to catch on with pro team
Class of 91
Rick Fox, NBA
Pete Chilcutt, NBA
King Rice, assistant coach, division 1
Class of 92
Hubert Davis, NBA
Class of 93
George Lynch, NBA
Matt Wenstron, formerly NBA now in Germany
Henrik Rodl, Germany pro ball
Scott Cherry, somewhere in Europe (no kidding!)
Class of 94
Montross, NBA
Phelps, NBA
Reese, CBA
Salvadori, Europe
Class of 95
Williams, CBA/NBA (?)
Landry probably grad school eventually.
The bottom line is, many Carolina players do indeed get to make a living
for a few years playing basketball, and who can blame them? But after
that's done, quite a high percentage have gone on to some kind of
graduate study. None have ended up on the streets in tatters like Chris
Washburn, none have left Carolina unable to read and function in the
world as has happened elsewhere (though not often in the acc.)
Thad
Curt Phillips
>In article <42t5b0$f...@seminole.gate.net>,
>Rob Mac K <blud...@news.gate.net> wrote:
>>In article <42r0t3$8...@carter.cs.unc.edu> dene...@cs.unc.edu (Kevin Denelsbeck) writes:
>>This would be a great statistic to have if you were running for office or
>>something. It sounds good, but no one knows what it really means in
>>terms of the big picture. Is it something to brag about, or something to
>>hang your head over? No one really knows.
>Well, for once I think Rob and I are pretty much in agreement on
>something (:-o). Let me make one slight distinction, which I wager
>Rob would agree with. Namely, if a basketball program has even 1% of
>its athletes go on to graduate study, that should be considered a
>Good Thing and no cause for shame. That is, any positive rate for
>graduate studies should be considered icing on the cake. It sure
>isn't crucial, but it's a Good Thing.
>Undergraduate graduation rate is a much more salient statistic.
Not really. Lawrence Taylor's book detailed widespread cheating and
other academic irregularities for UNC-CH athletes (AND financial
and law enforcement irregularities as well), BASED ON HIS
PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE AND PARTICIPATION from 4 years at UNC-CH.
Of course, because of UNC-CH's political clout there never was
an investigation. Those "bloodhound" investigative reporters
at the Raleigh version of the Daily Tarheel, otherwise known as
the News and Observer, somehow didn't find the story interesting
enough to pursue. (Of course, the Daniels family, which owned the
N&O until a few weeks ago, was a hard-core "Carolina" family.)
As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
and that includes the professors and the police.
===========Opinions expressed are solely those of the author===============
Curt Phillips, CEM KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "Microsoft is a synomym of SLOW!!!"
Engr Proj Mgr., Industrial & Research| KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net
North Carolina Division of Energy | Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group
Energy/Recycling BBS 704-547-3114 | ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh Am Radio Soc
Forrest H. Stroud
> As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
>are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
>and that includes the professors and the police.
You forgot all the referees in the world that
Dean pays off; all the college coaches who are
compelled under duress by Smith to send their best
talent to Chapel Hill each year; all the students,
reporters, and officials at Chapel Hill who are
forced by Dean to hide all facts of impropriety
and wrong-doing, and all the millions of UNC fans
that have been brain washed (or is that
stone-washed) by Dean's absolutely amazing
charisma and speaking skills...
When are you ever going to learn?
--
Forrest H. Stroud
Neur...@mail.utexas.edu
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~neuroses
The Consummate Winsock Apps List
http://cwsapps.texas.net
--
Curt Phillips
>KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net (Curt
>Phillips) wrote:
>> As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
>>are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
>>and that includes the professors and the police.
>
>You forgot all the referees in the world that
>Dean pays off; all the college coaches who are
>compelled under duress by Smith to send their best
>talent to Chapel Hill each year; all the students,
When the truth hurts, I guess you have to resort to
the smokescreen.
>When are you ever going to learn?
I've evidently learned quite a bit more than you already.
*MY* information comes from Lawrence Taylor, who spent 4 years
at UNC-CH in the athletic program.
Where does YOUR info come from?
>Neur...@mail.utexas.edu
^^^^^^^^^
An appropriate mailing address.
=========== Opinions expressed are solely those of the author ==============
Curt Phillips, CEM KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "All good work
Engineering Proj Mgr, Industrial & Research | is done in defiance
North Carolina Division of Energy | of management."
Energy/Recycling BBS 704-547-3114 | -- Bob Woodward
KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net ** cphi...@energy.commerce.state.nc.us
Forrest H. Stroud
>"Forrest H. Stroud" <Neur...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net (Curt
>>Phillips) wrote:
>>> As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
>>>are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
>>>and that includes the professors and the police.
>>
>>You forgot all the referees in the world that
>>Dean pays off; all the college coaches who are
>>compelled under duress by Smith to send their best
>>talent to Chapel Hill each year; all the students,
>[snip]
>
>When the truth hurts, I guess you have to resort to
>the smokescreen.
Yep...you sure convinced me...have you talked to
Matt Norris recently about unsubstantiated rumors,
by chance?
>>When are you ever going to learn?
>
> I've evidently learned quite a bit more than you already.
>*MY* information comes from Lawrence Taylor, who spent 4 years
>at UNC-CH in the athletic program.
Hmm...I guess Lawrence Taylor would be the one to know all there
is to know about Dean and the _basketball_ program, huh?
>Where does YOUR info come from?
I thought that it was common knowledge that Dean pays off
the refs, the high school coaches, the UNC faculty, the students,
the opposing players...did I leave anyone out?
To tell you the _truth_, my information comes from several
sources, including Duke fans, NCState fans, and anyone else
entirely too envious of the 'Heels...haven't you been reading
this newsgroup for the past year?
>>Neur...@mail.utexas.edu
> ^^^^^^^^^
> An appropriate mailing address.
Thanks, I like it...
Estel Rick Barbour
: Not really. Lawrence Taylor's book detailed widespread cheating and
: other academic irregularities for UNC-CH athletes (AND financial
: and law enforcement irregularities as well), BASED ON HIS
: PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE AND PARTICIPATION from 4 years at UNC-CH.
: Of course, because of UNC-CH's political clout there never was
: an investigation. Those "bloodhound" investigative reporters
: at the Raleigh version of the Daily Tarheel, otherwise known as
: the News and Observer, somehow didn't find the story interesting
: enough to pursue. (Of course, the Daniels family, which owned the
: N&O until a few weeks ago, was a hard-core "Carolina" family.)
: As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
: are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
: and that includes the professors and the police.
: ===========Opinions expressed are solely those of the author===============
: Curt Phillips, CEM KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "Microsoft is a synomym of SLOW!!!"
: Engr Proj Mgr., Industrial & Research| KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net
: North Carolina Division of Energy | Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group
: Energy/Recycling BBS 704-547-3114 | ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh Am Radio Soc
You and Matt Norris should get together and post all of your opinions on
alt.conspiracy. I bet if you put your minds to it you would discover
that Dean Smith is the one person whose connection to "White Water" is
still hidden. Because of his enormous power and influence even Bill and
Hillary will take the blame rather than risk revealing Dean's
involvement. It's little wonder that the same NCAA that busted Kentucky
in basketball and Oklahoma in football is afraid of the all powerful Dean
Smith.
Are you guys really this stupid! Maybe you're just trolling but if so
you need to try a different pond for a while.
Estel
Thad Williamson
players being wild, eating beer bottles, climbing up walls, sleeping with
everyone, and LT briefly saying there was a running competition as to
who was wilder between football and basketball team.
There weren't any allegatons of official misconduct or cheating in that
book, though, unless I'm wildly wrong. It is true that many basketball
players have undoubtedly done many things which Dean would not approve
of. But this is, again, true everywhere except maybe Oral Roberts and
Liberty and BYU.
As to your contention that everyone in chapel hill runs around covering
up these alleged abuses, I can tell you from first hand and intimate
knowledge of top-level university officials and also folks in the basketball
program over a 15 year period of time that it ain't so. On the contrary,
any impropriety or percieved impropriety is pounced on. The closest
Dean infact has ever come to breaking an official rule was when an assistant
coach bailed out i think it was james worthy who had gotten a parking ticket.
(I forget the exact story now.)
On the other hand I have heard people say that going to carolina to
play ball is like getting a life insurance policy and guaranteed
post-graduation job, because Dean will always look after you. This is
true, but not illegal.
cheers,
Thad
Chintan Amin
KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net (Curt Phillips) wrote:
> "Forrest H. Stroud" <Neur...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> >KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net (Curt
> >Phillips) wrote:
> >> As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
> >>are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
> >>and that includes the professors and the police.
> >
> >You forgot all the referees in the world that
> >Dean pays off; all the college coaches who are
> >compelled under duress by Smith to send their best
> >talent to Chapel Hill each year; all the students,
> [snip]
>
> When the truth hurts, I guess you have to resort to
> the smokescreen.
>
Since when did Oliver Stone get interested in College Basketball?
--
Chintan Amin ca...@grove.ufl.edu http://www.cen.uiuc.edu/~ca3155
University of Florida College of Law Class of 1998
University of Illinois College of Engineering Class of 1995
This Message Comes to You Courtesy of a Power Computing Power 100
Chintan Amin
erl...@umich.edu (EStevens) wrote:
> In article <42snnu$g...@ralph.vnet.net>, nigh...@lys.vnet.net (BAILEY
> IRWIN) wrote:
>
> > Matthew J. Norris (norr...@wfu.edu) wrote:
> > : I said all along that if Newton were guilty, he should be punished,
> > : and he was.
> >
> > When he's kicked out of Duke, or at least off the team, then get back to
> > me. Until then we all know your "honor code" is a farce.
>
> With this in mind, would you please tell me how King Rice's parole
> hearings fared last month?
>
You know, I expect more from Michigan students, but I guess you're
still bitter about that TO. King Rice does NOT play basketball for the
University of North Carolina. Newton, last time I checked, still plays
for Duke. Notice a distinction there?
> > So there we have it. While UNC fans talk about our recent visit to the
> > Final Four, or our 5-game winning streak vs Dook in basketball, or our
> > 5-game winning streak vs Dook in football, you and EStevens are talking
> > about...well, THIS. Kinda speaks volumes, huh?
>
> Please explain to me how "THIS" topic relates to my post to Matt.
>
Pot.... Kettle... Black. What the hell does King Rice have to do with
Greg Newton???
Matthew J. Norris
: You and Matt Norris should get together and post all of your opinions on
: alt.conspiracy.
Oh, be quiet, you petulant whelp. Just because someone holds a
different opinion from your own doesn't mean he or she is a conspiracy
theorist. Grow up.
: Are you guys really this stupid! Maybe you're just trolling but if so
: you need to try a different pond for a while.
That, uh, doesn't make any sense. But at least we're not stupid
enough to fail to realize that, or to end a question with an exclamation
point. Know what I mean!
Matthew J. Norris
: You know, I expect more from Michigan students, but I guess you're
: still bitter about that TO. King Rice does NOT play basketball for the
: University of North Carolina. Newton, last time I checked, still plays
: for Duke. Notice a distinction there?
No, I don't, genius - - please enlighten the rest of us.
: > > So there we have it. While UNC fans talk about our recent visit to the
: > > Final Four, or our 5-game winning streak vs Dook in basketball, or our
: > > 5-game winning streak vs Dook in football, you and EStevens are talking
: > > about...well, THIS. Kinda speaks volumes, huh?
: >
: > Please explain to me how "THIS" topic relates to my post to Matt.
: >
: Pot.... Kettle... Black. What the hell does King Rice have to do with
: Greg Newton???
Petty....Garbage....Smug.....Idiocy.....Give....It....A...Rest....We....
Beg.....You.
Estel Rick Barbour
: : You and Matt Norris should get together and post all of your opinions on
: : alt.conspiracy.
: Oh, be quiet, you petulant whelp. Just because someone holds a
: different opinion from your own doesn't mean he or she is a conspiracy
: theorist. Grow up.
Sorry! I'll go look up the definition of conspiracy and I guess I'll
check out paranoia while I'm looking at the dictionary. As far as the
petulant whelp crack goes, I will consider insults from you to be
compliments.
I've been lurking on this group for most of the past year and consider
your posts to be among the most biased and ill considered I've seen.
While we all enjoy making fun of the opposing teams and fans most of the
regulars seem to enjoy the dialogue and temper their bias with humor and
even a certain amount of comaraderie with each other.
You on the other hand always use personal attacks and attempt to
denigrate anyone who disagrees with you. You always claim to know some
"good" Tar Heel fans who agree with you but evidently they never post to
this newsgroup.
Perhaps you should take a little time to think and see if you can figure
out why Duke supporters like Rob Mac K are shown at least a modicrum of
respect while you are considered a sullen brat. (Gee! Is that anything
like petulant whelp?)
: : Are you guys really this stupid! Maybe you're just trolling but if so
: : you need to try a different pond for a while.
: That, uh, doesn't make any sense. But at least we're not stupid
: enough to fail to realize that, or to end a question with an exclamation
: point. Know what I mean!
Sorry again Matt. Which part didn't you understand? Try reading it a
little slower, assuming that's possible in your case.
??????????????????? Happy now?
: --
: Matt Norris
: Wake Forest Law '97
: Duke University '92
Estel
EStevens
(Estel Rick Barbour) wrote:
> I've been lurking on this group for most of the past year and consider
I thought I smelled something.
EStevens
Vikram Chitkara
--
dfs
Curt Phillips
>As I recall, all the Lawrence Taylor book talks about is the football
>players being wild, eating beer bottles, climbing up walls, sleeping with
>everyone, and LT briefly saying there was a running competition as to
>who was wilder between football and basketball team.
>
>There weren't any allegatons of official misconduct or cheating in that
>book, though, unless I'm wildly wrong. It is true that many basketball
Yep, you ARE wildly wrong. Try reading the book before commenting
on it. Lawrence tells of cheating on examinations and helping other
athletes cheat. He tells of postdated "drop/add" cards to help
himself and other athletes drop classes in which they are having problems,
well after the official "drop/add" dates. He tells of selling
extra tickets for spending money... and selling them for well over the
ticket price to "friendly" boosters. And there's more, but of course
you and the other UNC-CH drones don't want to hear about it.
===========Opinions expressed are solely those of the author===============
Curt Phillips, CEM KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "Microsoft is a synomym of SLOW!!!"
Engr Proj Mgr., Industrial & Research| Contrib. Ed, ENERGY USER NEWS
North Carolina Division of Energy | Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group
Energy/Recycling BBS 704-547-3114 | ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh Am Radio Soc
KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net ** cphi...@energy.commerce.state.nc.us
Curt Phillips
>KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net (Curt Phillips) wrote:
>>"Forrest H. Stroud" <Neur...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>>KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net (Curt
>>>Phillips) wrote:
>>>> As far as I'm concerned, all graduation statistics at UNC-CH
>>>>are untrustworthy. Dean rules the Chapel Hill like Saddam rules Iraq,
>>>>and that includes the professors and the police.
[snip]
>>>When are you ever going to learn?
>>
>> I've evidently learned quite a bit more than you already.
>>*MY* information comes from Lawrence Taylor, who spent 4 years
>>at UNC-CH in the athletic program.
>
>Hmm...I guess Lawrence Taylor would be the one to know all there
>is to know about Dean and the _basketball_ program, huh?
Well, having been in the athletics department for four years,
he certainly knows a lot more about the UNC-CH athletics department,
INCLUDING BASKETBALL, than *YOU* do.
Then there's former LA Dodger Tommy John, who was a baseball coach
at UNC-CH for a short while. When there was a player disiplince problem,
he tells of Dean Smith (YES, Dean, the pristine one HIMSELF) calling him
in and asking him to cover it over, to maintain the UNC-CH reputation
(or, more accurately, the illusion).
But, as all Tarheel sycophants know, Dean's as pure as the driven snow!
"See no evil, hear no evil, say no evil!"
=========== Opinions expressed are solely those of the author ============
Curt Phillips, KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "I don't want to achieve
KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net |immortality through my work.
Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group |I want to achieve immortality
ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh Am Radio Soc |through NOT DYING." --Woody Allen
Thad Williamson
it first came out. Again, nothing that you say it contains is
particularly shocking. And none has any relevance to the basketball
program. The original posts insinuated that there were "financial"
scandals. The best you can do is some abuse of tickets--I bet you
could find this at 80% of division 1 football porgrams, circa 1980--and
some creative adding and dropping courses and plain old cheating. That's
hardly the same class of institutional offense, as say, changing grades.
Get real--people cheat at every school in the country. I went to Brown,
and saw half the freshman hockey players blatantly cheating on an intro
econ exam. Is Brown then a corrupt place and Brown athletics irremediably
tainted? All division 1 schools' athletic programs have abuses from the
standpoint of the ideal academic-athletic relationship. All I claim is that
Dean Smith follows the letter of the NCAA law, and has consistently
over 34 years; that he graduates virtually all his players; and that he
goes well beyond the call of duty to ensure the welfare of his former
players as they make their way in the world. He also gives a lot to the
community and state as awhole, financially and otherwise, and for the
most part keeps it anonymous. It is true that he wields undue
institutional influence at UNC--and again I can say that factually from
an inside point of view--and that basketball in general is out of
proportion at UNC. But it's as clean as a program gets, and it's not
like Dean uses his influence to affect overall university policy--he's
content just to protect his own realm and that of other coaches at
Carolina (he was the one that got Dick Crum the infamous 10 year contract.)
Finally, the fact that dean smith cares about public relations is not a
great scandal--or crime.
Thad
Curt Phillips
>Well, Curt, I did indeed read the book, but a long time ago--when
>it first came out. Again, nothing that you say it contains is
>particularly shocking. And none has any relevance to the basketball
>program. The original posts insinuated that there were "financial"
>scandals. The best you can do is some abuse of tickets--I bet you
The NCAA thought that abuse of "comp" shoes was a MAJOR offense
at N.C. State. That was THE major violation that they cited State for.
So that type of thing isn't so minor when it occurs outside of Chapel
Hill. Of course, UNC-CH gets immunity from scrutiny by the NCAA,
whatever their offenses.
>could find this at 80% of division 1 football porgrams, circa 1980--and
>some creative adding and dropping courses and plain old cheating. That's
"Everybody does it" is the excuse of the guilty.
But I'm sure that cheating really does help UNC-CH keep their
players grades up, but it also makes their "graduation" rates
irrelevant.
>hardly the same class of institutional offense, as say, changing grades.
[snip]
>Dean Smith follows the letter of the NCAA law, and has consistently
How do we know? No matter what, the NCAA won't investigate at UNC-CH.
>over 34 years; that he graduates virtually all his players; and that he
^^^^^^^^^ irrelevant, given rampant cheating.
If you can copy, you make the grades... if you make the grades, you
graduate. Child's play, if you're allowed to cheat.
I guess Greg Newton at Duke must have decided to use the UNC-CH method
of "making the grade". We'll see what punishment HE gets.
I know I can't affect the opinions of the "Dean is God" faction, because
their brains have been disengaged for too long. Hopefully though, a few
others are finding out the kind of things that REALLY go on at that
"pristine" hill of hypocrites, UNC-Chapel Hill.
========== Opinions expressed are solely those of the author ===============
Curt Phillips, CEM KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "All good work
Engineering Proj Mgr, Industrial & Research| is done in defiance
North Carolina Division of Energy | of management."
Energy/Recycling BBS 704-547-3114 | -- Bob Woodward
cphi...@energy.commerce.state.nc.us ** KD...@cphillips.pdial.interpath.net
Thad Williamson
shoes and tickets aren't the same thing, regarding the state and
carolina comparison. Every college football player is given tickets;
the system is a recipe for abuse. In any case that may have been the
big issue
at state in the eyes of the ncaa, but in the eyes of most people it was
total lack of institutional control over athletics after valvano became
AD there.
And i do hate to inform you, but you can look up all you want
for the things you imagine go on at chapel hill. you won't find much.
trust me, I have been there. I won't try any further to disabuse of
your belief that Dean Smith and Carolina's overall repuation must be too
good to true (although I certainly don't agree with the statement "Dean
Smith is God" or "Carolina is perfect and pure"). I'm sure it seems that way
to the outsider.
Oh by the way, I earlier referred to case of an assistant coach
improperly helping i think it was james worthy out of a minor legal
jam. The NCAA was all over that one, reports had to be filed etc. In
fact, more likely than not
there are a few enforcement agents who would love nothing better than
to nail carolina and dean smith. your hypothesis owes more to the
imagination than reality. I'd welcome a thorough NCAA audit at UNC if
that would make you happy. won't find anything.
bye,
Thad
Chintan Amin
Norris) wrote:
> Estel Rick Barbour (es...@darkwing.uoregon.edu) drooled:
> : You and Matt Norris should get together and post all of your opinions on
> : alt.conspiracy.
>
>
> Oh, be quiet, you petulant whelp. Just because someone holds a
> different opinion from your own doesn't mean he or she is a conspiracy
> theorist. Grow up.
>
No, it isn't because you think differently, Matt. Its 'cause you don't
think at all.
--
Chintan Amin ca...@grove.ufl.edu http://grove.ufl.edu/~camin
University of Florida College of Law Class of 1998
University of Illinois College of Engineering Class of 1995
Buy This Line
Chintan Amin
Norris) wrote:
> Chintan Amin (ca...@grove.ufl.edu) wrote:
> : You know, I expect more from Michigan students, but I guess you're
> : still bitter about that TO. King Rice does NOT play basketball for the
> : University of North Carolina. Newton, last time I checked, still plays
> : for Duke. Notice a distinction there?
>
>
> No, I don't, genius - - please enlighten the rest of us.
"The rest of us" understand; you don't. I'll tabulate this, so you can
follow, Matt:
1) You compared the legal troubles of King Rice has with Greg
Newton's problems at Duke.
2) King Rice no longer attends UNC, so he doesn't directly reflect
on Carolina.
3) Newton still attends Duke, so his actions directly reflect on Duke.
>
>
>
> : > > So there we have it. While UNC fans talk about our recent visit to the
> : > > Final Four, or our 5-game winning streak vs Dook in basketball, or our
> : > > 5-game winning streak vs Dook in football, you and EStevens are talking
> : > > about...well, THIS. Kinda speaks volumes, huh?
> : >
> : > Please explain to me how "THIS" topic relates to my post to Matt.
> : >
>
> : Pot.... Kettle... Black. What the hell does King Rice have to do with
> : Greg Newton???
>
>
>
> Petty....Garbage....Smug.....Idiocy.....Give....It....A...Rest....We....
> Beg.....You.
>
No, YOU beg me, don't insult the rest or r.s.bb.c by association.
You're already doing that with Rob, Geoff and the other Duke Alumni, who
incidently can argue their points.
Anyway... beg? I wouldn't care if you came down to Gainesville and
licked the grease off of my bike chain. Entiendes? Ya know Matt, its
really easy for someone with no case to avoid rebutting an argument, but
you expect more from a law student, especially one in his second year.
Plan on chasing ambulances in two years? See, I can come up with inane
off-subject insults too...
So back to my point. You bring up King Rice as a rebuttal to Newton's
problems. I've distinguished the two cases above so you can understand,
Matt. Then you ask someone how their off subject topic relates to your
post. Since you didn't understand my comment, I'll try to help you out
(I'm such a nice person, helping out the mentally challenged and all
that), It was like the Pot calling the Kettle Black. If you need further
assistance, call the University of North Carolina Office of Continuing
Education.
BURN N AZ
matters.