Umps ask CBS not tu use Skydome roof camera
Colin McFadyen
CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
pleased when a bad call is made.
--
Colin McFadyen - Systems Support - col...@ccs.carleton.ca
Carleton University Computing and Communications Services
Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1S 5B6
Sherri Nichols
> Just heard on the radio that the MLB umpires assoc. has asked
>CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
>overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
>pleased when a bad call is made.
Why is replaying the overhead shots on balls and strikes any different from
replaying any other call the umpires make?
On another umpire beef, I thought it was absolutely ludicrous that Joe West
was an umpire for the LCS, given his history with the Phillies. He was
quoted earlier this season as calling the Phillies a "bunch of sore
losers", and there have been several incidents over the last couple of
years between West and the Phillies. I think West has lost credibility as
an impartial arbiter where the Phillies are concerned.
But, I suspect the owners are going to have to be willing to tolerate an
extended strike to get any of these things changed, and the owners, despite
often talking a tough game, aren't very willing to tolerate extended
strikes.
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
Jim Powers
Colin McFadyen <col...@max.carleton.ca> wrote:
> Just heard on the radio that the MLB umpires assoc. has asked
>CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
>overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
>pleased when a bad call is made.
It's not just an issue of bad calls. In the hands of the umpires, the
strike zone has drifted so far outside that it has almost no relationship
to home plate. So, even when the umpires are being perfectly consistent,
calling outside strikes that they always call, the roofcam makes them
look like they're screwing up - happened all the time in the playoffs.
This is not to say that I think CBS should stop using the roofcam - it's
neat to see where the strike zone really is, and also to see when they
really do screw up.
So what's next - are they going to request no replays of controversial calls
of any kind?
--
Jim Powers MSME Dept. | Pi's face was masked, and it was understood
jpo...@sapphirine.berkeley.edu | that none could behold it and live. But
===== Bertrand Russell =======> | piercing eyes looked out from the mask,
"The Mathematician's Nightmare" | inexorable, cold, and enigmatic.
Gary Dilip Palpatine Lor Feldstein Huckabay
> Just heard on the radio that the MLB umpires assoc. has asked
>CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
>overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
>pleased when a bad call is made.
Hello!
What a surprise. The slimy MLBUA, who killed instant replay of
close calls at ballparks, now wants to prevent anyone from finding
out what a generally poor job is done of calling balls and strikes
in the major leagues.
Inexcusable. Umpires do a very good job on out/safe calls, IMHO,
but their interpretation of the strike zone has deteriorated beyond
an acceptable floor, IMHO. The Umpires Union has prevented merit
appointments to postseason play, and has basically made being appointed
an MLB ump equivalent to being appointed to the Supreme Court.
Umpires are out of control, and their union needs to be broken.
They have too much power, are too flashy on the field, and are not
doing a good enough job. They need to be dealt with in some fashion.
The 'de fatso' strike zone needs to be eliminated. The plate is
not 24" wide, and the strike zone doesn't start at the belt. This
zone is the result of de facto rule changes brought about gradually by
umpires over the past twenty years.
Would a fiery letter do any good? To whom would I send it?
--
* Gary Huckabay * THRU 31135 *
* "Enjoying the * /Rule Book Trivia/:j *
* benefits of * /From:.*jr...@wam.umd.edu/h:j *
* a KILL file." * /From:.*l...@cbnewsk.cb.att.com/h:j *
J. L. David
> Just heard on the radio that the MLB umpires assoc. has asked
> CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
> overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
> pleased when a bad call is made.
>
to figure out where the outside corner of the plate is. EVERY
umpire in baseball lines up on the inside corner then "guesses"
where the outside corner is. Almost all of them do it badly and
in favor of the pitcher. Geez, Frank Thomas knows the strike zone
better than any umpire in the AL. :-)
Jeff David
fre...@meena.cc.uregina.ca
the calls the umpires missed in the World Series last year. Ie.
Alomar at home plate in game two and the triple play in game three.
I can't see what difference it makes. You can tell from side and
front angles if the pitch was a ball or a strike. Do the
unpires have something going here we don't know about.
Are there any Canadian umps working the series?
Carey Frey
University of Regina
fre...@meena.cc.uregina.ca
doug
>CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
>overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
>pleased when a bad call is made.
>
want to do the same for tv? how arrogant can they get? whats next --
no shots of balls being hit down the fowl line?
>--
>Colin McFadyen - Systems Support - col...@ccs.carleton.ca
>Carleton University Computing and Communications Services
>Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1S 5B6
--
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts
... then we'd all have a very merry christmas!
Toronto Blue Jays all the way in 1993 ...
Richard Robb
>
> first they disallow replays of close plays in the stadium, now they
> want to do the same for tv? how arrogant can they get? whats next --
> no shots of balls being hit down the fowl line?
What, they have a fowl line in the Skydome?? This I want to see!
- Dirt.
--
"Love is an ideal thing, marriage a real thing; a confusion of the real
with the ideal never goes unpunished." -- Goethe
irv...@sscl.uwo.ca
>> doug writes:
>>
>> first they disallow replays of close plays in the stadium, now they
>> want to do the same for tv? how arrogant can they get? whats next --
>> no shots of balls being hit down the fowl line?
>
>
> What, they have a fowl line in the Skydome?? This I want to see!
I thought they left that in Exhibition Stadium!
Jon Hamkins
>first they disallow replays of close plays in the stadium, now they
>want to do the same for tv? how arrogant can they get? whats next --
>no shots of balls being hit down the fowl line?
Well, those birds getting pegged had the SPCA getting pretty upset. :)
----Jon Hamkins (ham...@uiuc.edu)
University of Illinois
Jon Hamkins
> Just heard on the radio that the MLB umpires assoc. has asked
>CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
>overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
>pleased when a bad call is made.
So the request has been made. Does the umpire association actually
have any influence over CBS? Why would CBS care what the umpires
want? (This isn't rhetorical-- I really want to know.)
Brian D. Norton
I once read a quote from an Umpire (don't remember who) that said something to
the effect of "If we [Umpires] called the strike zone like the rules book says,
then everyone would hit .200 and Roger Clements would win 35 games a year."
Don't they call a more literal strike zone in Japan?
-Bri
unknown
>(Colin McFadyen) writes:
>> Just heard on the radio that the MLB umpires assoc. has asked
>>CBS not to use the Skydome roof camera to replay those nice
>>overhead shots of balls and strikes. It seems the umps are not
>>pleased when a bad call is made.
>
>Hello!
>What a surprise. The slimy MLBUA, who killed instant replay of
>close calls at ballparks, now wants to prevent anyone from finding
>out what a generally poor job is done of calling balls and strikes
>in the major leagues.
>
My question is, why don't the umpires watch the replays themselves
and see actually how silly the strike zone has become. On the
total contrary to what the MLBUA says, I think that an overhead-type
camera should be installed _at every ballpark_ so the umpires can
learn how to call balls/strikes. Players improve by watching
game films-why don't umpires?
paul
John C. Davenport
>
>I once read a quote from an Umpire (don't remember who) that said something
>to the effect of "If we [Umpires] called the strike zone like the rules
>book says, then everyone would hit .200 and Roger Clements would win
>35 games a year."
>
I've seen the same quote.
To the extent that they call a ball on a rulebook strike, like
anything between the belt and armpit, this makes sense.
But how the *&!@ does calling a ball six inches outside "strike" raise
batting averages and hold down pitching? It doesn't. What we have is
an umpire rationalizing an excuse for not calling it by the book.
Show the replays, CBS, from any angle *YOU* want, not whatever angle
*THEY* want. If it shows up an umpire, tough.
--
Clay D.
jc...@virginia.edu
Any manager who'd bat Flynn and Blake ahead of Casey is an idiot.
RVES...@vma.cc.nd.edu
Norton) says:
>
>I once read a quote from an Umpire (don't remember who) that said something to
>the effect of "If we [Umpires] called the strike zone like the rules book
>says,
>then everyone would hit .200 and Roger Clements would win 35 games a year."
then everyone should hit .200, and clemens should win 35 a year.
or else they should change the rules to what is actually followed.
bob vesterman.
David McKinnon
John C. Davenport <jc...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>Show the replays, CBS, from any angle *YOU* want, not whatever angle
>*THEY* want. If it shows up an umpire, tough.
In Game 1, CBS did use the overhead camera shot. They used it a lot, in fact,
and it showed up quite a number of bad calls. Including one called strike on
a Guzman pitch that was several inches outside. Actually, in that case, I
don't know if the overhead cam made any difference -- I could tell from the
centre field view that it was way outside.
>--
>Clay D.
>
>jc...@virginia.edu
>Any manager who'd bat Flynn and Blake ahead of Casey is an idiot.
--David McKinnon
mcki...@math.berkeley.edu
John C. Davenport
David McKinnon <mcki...@lhasa.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <CF0E8...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
>John C. Davenport <jc...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>>Show the replays, CBS, from any angle *YOU* want, not whatever angle
>>*THEY* want. If it shows up an umpire, tough.
>
>In Game 1, CBS did use the overhead camera shot. They used it a lot, in fact,
>and it showed up quite a number of bad calls. Including one called strike on
>a Guzman pitch that was several inches outside. Actually, in that case, I
>don't know if the overhead cam made any difference -- I could tell from the
>centre field view that it was way outside.
>
I'm glad they did. But the only one I thought was really bad was the
Guzman pitch you allude to, which resulted in a strikeout (of Jordan,
I think) to end the inning. All of the rest were close enough to be
called strikes (maybe some were a tad out, but you have to allow a
little margin of error). Remember, the rule is that if *any* part
of the ball touches *any* part of the 3-dimensional space called the
strike zone, its a strike. Even if its only one seam clipping the
front edge.
I only had a complaint with two calls last night: the strikeout
mentioned above and calling White out on a DP. Even.
doug
>>to the effect of "If we [Umpires] called the strike zone like the rules
>>book says, then everyone would hit .200 and Roger Clements would win
>>35 games a year."
>>
>
>
>To the extent that they call a ball on a rulebook strike, like
>anything between the belt and armpit, this makes sense.
>
>But how the *&!@ does calling a ball six inches outside "strike" raise
>batting averages and hold down pitching? It doesn't. What we have is
>an umpire rationalizing an excuse for not calling it by the book.
>
>*THEY* want. If it shows up an umpire, tough.
cbs was using the roof camera for game 1. i guess they decided they
were under no obligation to listen to the umpires. after all cbs owns
baseball dont they? (at least until the end of this year) ....
>--
>Clay D.
>
>jc...@virginia.edu
>Any manager who'd bat Flynn and Blake ahead of Casey is an idiot.
Chris Gonna' Find Ray Charles Tate
>
>Umpires are out of control, and their union needs to be broken.
>They have too much power, are too flashy on the field, and are not
>doing a good enough job. They need to be dealt with in some fashion.
>
>The 'de fatso' strike zone needs to be eliminated. The plate is
>not 24" wide, and the strike zone doesn't start at the belt. This
>zone is the result of de facto rule changes brought about gradually by
>umpires over the past twenty years.
>
>Would a fiery letter do any good? To whom would I send it?
How about sending it to CBS?
Personally, I would *strongly* encourage the networks to show the bad
calls (via overhead camera or any other mechanism) as often as they
like. Just the facts, ma'am....
You might also write to the owners, letting them know that you find the
obvious lack of skill on the part of major league umpires to be utterly
destructive to the game, blah blah.... You know what to write better
than I do, I imagine.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it *illegal* to reqire that all of
the umpires belong to the union? If the owners start feeling pressure
from the fans and the networks, they might be willing to start bucking
the union - and finding other umpires, if necessary. Admittedly it's
not going to be pretty. I think Ms. Nichols is correct when she
predicts that the only path to improvement will involve an extended
strike by the umpires' union.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Tate | "Your hat - so very black to you;
Management Systems Designers | so very red to me."
|
fi...@faxcsl.dcrt.nih.gov | -- "Sunday in the Park with George"
Paul Andresen
|> So the request has been made. Does the umpire association actually
|> have any influence over CBS? Why would CBS care what the umpires
|> want? (This isn't rhetorical-- I really want to know.)
There was no shortage of those shots in games 1 & 2. It appears that CBS has
in effect told (quite properly, IMHO) the high and mighty umpires to piss off.
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