All-Stars....
Todd Harris Fletcher
American League
1B Mark McGwire Gunning for 55 HR this year. 2nd Highest OBA.
Avg. Glove.
Frank Thomas Having great year again. Looking for .300/25/110 .436 OBA.
2B Carlos Baerga Leading all ML 2B with 11 HR and 49 RBI. Good Defense.
Roberto Alomar Hits for Avg., drives in runs, good speed. Overrated Def.
SS Travis Fryman Looking to go .300/25/110 and has steady glove.
Underrated.
Cal Ripken, Jr. Below average year for him, but always reliable.
3B Edgar Martinez Will end up with .315/25/90/15sb. Avg. Glove. Underrated.
Robin Ventura Lots of hustle on D. Gets to everything. .310/15/85.
C Mickey Tettleton What a year! Going for 35 HR and 100 RBI. Great arm too!
Ivan Rodriguez Suddenly hitting for power. Best arm in the game.
LF Brady Anderson Surprise on the year. Bring everything to the game.
Mel Hall Another 20HR 100RBI year. Better than what else is left.
CF Kirby Puckett Best player in baseball. Little more power and
triple crown
Ken Griffey, Jr. Going to be the next Kirby Puckett with more speed.
RF Joe Carter Power. Great Arm. Continuously getting better.
Ruben Sierra Quietly waking up. .300 and 50 RBI. He goes since
no Jose
DH Albert Belle Psycho. Power, power, power. Could hit 50 someday.
Dave Winfield Will he ever get old? .300/30/100 year again.
P Charles Nagy This kid can pitch. I don't think this is a fluke year.
Roger Clemens Obviously. A few unlucky starts. He'll win 20 again.
Juan Guzman Can you say Cy Young? As long as he doesn't do an
Erickson
Dave Fleming He might do an Erickson, but good 1st half gets him here.
Kevin Brown Finally some pitching for Texas. Walks too many but wins.
Jack McDowell Coasted to All-Star break. 7-0 then what, but best left.
Jack Morris Deceiving ERA. Knows how to win and not blow leads.
Dennis Eckersley Best relief pitcher ever. Will he ever blow another save?
Gregg Olson Fastest to 100 sv ever. Look out Reardon, he's
just a kid.
Jeff Montgomery Surprise! 0-5 but only 8ER. Batters hitting .194.
National League
1B Fred McGriff Finally! Most consistent power hitter in last 4 years.
John Kruk A man built like that hitting .355? Are you serious?
2B Ryne Sandberg One of the best ever. Consistent and very, very good.
Jose Lind Having one of the greatest defense years ever. Gold Glove.
SS Tony Fernandez Will he ever get respect? .300 hitter. Eratic arm.
Ozzie Smith The human vacuum. Imagine having the Oz and Lind
together.
3B Gary Sheffield What an improvement. Can this guy keep doing this?
Terry Pendleton He's doing it again. Where did this power come from?
C Darren Daulton Best season by a catcher in years. He really is
this good.
Don Slaught Excuse me, but this guy's hitting .400. Only 5sb allowed.
LF Barry Bonds 2nd best player in the game. Too bad his attitude sucks.
Ron Gant This guy used to be a bad 2nd baseman? He's got power.
CF Andy Van Slyke Is he really going after a batting title and a gold glove?
Marquis Grissom My man has wheels. Could improve defensively. Run,
run, run
RF Larry Walker This guy is tough. 30HR and 100RBI year ahead.
Great arm.
Andre Dawson Maybe his last one. Just beats out Bonilla for a spot.
P Tom Glavine Back to back Cy Young's. Great young pitcher.
Greg Maddux 10 Wins, low ERA, 100K's. Having great year in Wrigley.
David Cone Whiff. Leading in K's again. Could be 10-2 if Mets hit.
Randy Tomlin Slacking off lately, but deserves to be here with 10 wins.
Craig Lefferts Not bad for a converted closer. 10 wins get him in too.
Dennis Martinez Boy is he good. 85H in 115 IP, that's not too bad.
Bob Tewksbury He finally found a home. 1.82 ERA is always welcome.
Lee Smith Imagine that, he's leadin in saves again.
Doug Jones Did the Indians really cut this guy? Oops again.
Norm Charlton Yet another closer from Cincinnati. He is tough.
Well, there it is. My picks for the All-Star teams. I obviously did
not pick someone from every team, but simply the best players at each
position this season. Feel free to criticize, I'm sure you will
regardless.
-Todd
roger maynard
>Who should really be at the All-Star Game???
>American League
>2B Carlos Baerga Leading all ML 2B with 11 HR and 49 RBI. Good Defense.
> Roberto Alomar Hits for Avg., drives in runs, good speed. Overrated Def.
What is this "over-rated" D for Alomar? According to Gillete's ratings Alomar's
AFR was 3.66 last year. League avg. was 3.33. Baerga was 3.14. Franco 3.04
and Knoblauch 3.45. Of those who played in 100 or more games only Luis Sojo
was higher at 3.88. (These stats, of course, are for the benefit of those who
don't know a good secondbaseman when they see one.) This year he has been
hampered by a knee injury and that is why his SB's are down as well.
rm
>-Todd
--
roger maynard
9128...@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
Edward [Ted] Fischer
>Who should really be at the All-Star Game???
>
>American League
>
>1B Mark McGwire Gunning for 55 HR this year. 2nd Highest OBA.
> Avg. Glove.
You *are* joking, right? Mark McGwire is the best defensive 1B in the
league.
> Frank Thomas Having great year again. Looking for .300/25/110
> .436 OBA.
I sure hopes he sets his goals higher than that! He could hit that high
in his sleep (as he has been so far this year)!
>2B Carlos Baerga Leading all ML 2B with 11 HR and 49 RBI. Good Defense.
Bullshit. He had the lowest AGDA of any regular 2B in the league last
year. That is *miserable* defense. Whether or not you believe the
stat is perfect. And I'll take Alomar's offense by a mile and a half!
Who cares if Baerga hits 11 HR? Alomar has the better overall slugging.
And has a *far* better OBP. And more speed. And only 4 fewer RBIs,
despite batting #2 instead of the #3 where Baerga bats.
> Roberto Alomar Hits for Avg., drives in runs, good speed.
> Overrated Def.
Maybe his defense is overrated. But it is at least above average,
something Baerga has yet to achieve.
>3B Edgar Martinez Will end up with .315/25/90/15sb. Avg. Glove.
> Underrated.
Why don't you give real stats like OBP and SLG? The above makes Edgar
Martinez look almost *bad*. How about mentioning a .387 OBP and *.556*
SLG? (Which is incidentally *second* in the league behind McGwire...)
>LF Brady Anderson Surprise on the year. Bring everything to the game.
> Mel Hall Another 20HR 100RBI year. Better than what else is left.
???? Did Shane Mack die or something? First off, Mel Hall can't play
defense, and Mack has *almost* as much power. And OBP? Mack has only
a 70 point advantage! Sure, Mel Hall is having a 20/100 year. But
Shane Mack is producing 80 RBIs out of the *leadoff* spot. *AND* scoring
110 times along the way. Mel Hall is no more an All-Star than I am!
>RF Joe Carter Power. Great Arm. Continuously getting better.
> Ruben Sierra Quietly waking up. .300 and 50 RBI. He goes since
> no Jose
You don't believe in walks, do you? Still, I have to agree. With
Tartabull, Deer, and Canseco all spending time on the DL...
>DH Albert Belle Psycho. Power, power, power. Could hit 50 someday.
> Dave Winfield Will he ever get old? .300/30/100 year again.
Taking Belle over Molitor? Silly. Molitor's BA makes up for quite the
difference in power and more. And Molitor even has speed...
> Jack Morris Deceiving ERA. Knows how to win and not blow leads.
BULLSHIT! Did you see my post? He has blown *5* leads already this
year. And given up the go-ahead run 12 times in 16 starts. There is
*no* reason in the world to take Morris when you could have Mussina.
Unless you enjoy shit pitchers on your all-star team.
If you are going to make statements like "he knows how to win", at
least be able to back them up!
-Valentine
--
"What is John Valentin still doing in the minors?" ted...@cs.cornell.edu
Todd Harris Fletcher
First I must again point out that I did not pick at least one player
from each team intentionally - that rule is stupid.
Counter point #1: Mark McGwire *does* have and average glove. Don
Mattingly is the best fielding 1B in the AL by far.
Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
The All Star game is based on this year. Alomar sucks at turning the
DP. Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
mean anything (kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career). Look
at the runs they have scored and then consider that Baerga's SLG is
lower and he only has one other guy in the entire batting order that
will consistently drive him in. He is a clutch hitter! And for Alomar
only havin 4 less RBI while hitting 2nd as apposed to Baerga hitting
3rd....compare the bottom of the two teams orders and I don't think any
explaination is needed.
Counter point #3: Alomar's defense is AVERAGE! He has speed, but does
not get a good jump and is slow turning two.
Counter point #4: Mack vs. Hall. I like Shane Mack alot, but Hall is
streaking tothe break and Mack is slumping. Very close choice. Again,
with the RBI comparison, look who they each have hitting in the few
spots in front of them. OBA - sure 70 point lead for Mack, but SLG - 20
point lead for Hall.
Counter point #5: Belle vs. Molitor. Personal choice. Power over
Average & Speed.
Counter point #6: I still think Jack Morris is a great pitcher. Mike
Mussina is great, but he has 20 years to make the team - Jack's almost
done.
BTW, jerkie, I believe I picked 20 out of 28 AL players and 20 out of 28
NL players. Not bad considering I didn't pick the goofs like Sharperson
and Bip Roberts. Plus, I only named 24 players.
-Todd
Jim Shimkus
called me last night to ask me, and I am cluless. Last season, (I dont
recall the particular game), LA manager Tommy Lasora wanted to bring in
a relief pitcher to face one specific batter (playing the book on lefty/
righty), but didn't want to take out the pitcher he had in the game. So, he moves Pitcher #1 into left field (double switch) and brings in Pitcher #2.
Pitcher 2 gets his out, and then Pitcher #1 is brought back to the mound and
a new left fielder is brought in (second double switch). OK, my friend's
question was this: If Pitcher #1 started the game, pitched 5 or more innings
and held a lead when the first switch was made, and then when returning to the
mound finished the game and preserved the lead, would he not get credit for
BOTH a win and a save?
Just curious.
Yours,
Peter Gambit
Ron Birnbaum
|> I heard that Tom Kelly did not pick a backup 1st baseman for that
|> All-Star Team. Is this true? How could he possibly leave Frank Thomas
|> off the team?
Because he had to have 3 secondbaseman! And how could you take Thomas in
favor of Carlos Baerga?? ;-)
-Ron
PS - Taking Carter over Winfield was pretty poor, too. It's like the fans were
voting all over again!!
Erick Rudiak
save is that the pitcher has not already been credited with a win.
|> Just curious.
|>
|> Yours,
|> Peter Gambit
-- Erick
_____________________________________________________________________
|
I tell myself, hey, only fools rush in | Erick Rudiak
Only time will tell if we stand the test of time| er...@nwu.edu
And all I know, you've got to run to win |____________________
And I'll be damned if I'm left | "I'm not worthy..."
caught up on the line | \o/ \o/
-- Van Halen, "Why Can't This Be Love" | O__ \\ O__ \\
________________________________________________|_/__|__||__/__|_||__
Barry Walker (BNR)
baseball player
....He cant turn the double play
....He Gets most of his extra base hits when they mean nothing
Lets get real
Take last nights game
8th Inning ..A's with the bases loaded ..1 out...beautiful double play
started by Alomar
9th Inning..Alomar Leading off in a 3-3 game.....Another MEANINGLESS
double to lead off..
and eventually scores the winning run on a single
The key thing about Alomar is that he makes things happen, he makes a big
play when
you need it. I have seen most of the Jays games this year and he is
unquestionably the most
valuable player on there team.
And stop this CRAP about him being average defensively,,,,how many games
have you morons
seen Alomar play that are making these comments
Barry Walker Dept 4C40 Bell-Northern Research
bwa...@bnr.test FAX:(613) 763-xxxx /* My opinions, not BNR's */
Edward [Ted] Fischer
>In response to "Valentine's" comments on my All Star predictions....
>
>Mattingly is the best fielding 1B in the AL by far.
Mattingly's range isn't what it used to be. He still turns the DP
well, and fields the bunt better than anybody else I've seen, and
scoops balls well. But McGwire is decent-to-good at all of these
things *and* has great range! Whether or not Mattingly is the best
fielding 1B in the league, McGwire is certainly better than average.
>Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
>The All Star game is based on this year.
So? Whatever makes you think he has suddenly learned how to field?
I haven't noticed any big change. And range is hard to teach.
>Alomar sucks at turning the DP.
It's hard to say from stats. And my impression from watching him is
that he is at least average, with a quick release and a strong arm.
>Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
>mean anything (kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career).
I assume that you have *some* way of backing this up? I listen to a
fair number of Blue Jays games. And Alomar is as clutch as they come!
He sure as hell has made those runs count!!! Do you ever watch the
game? Or are you buried in a stat book???
>Look
>at the runs they have scored and then consider that Baerga's SLG is
>lower and he only has one other guy in the entire batting order that
>will consistently drive him in.
Lessee... Alomar has 48 R and 45 RBI for 87 RP in 277 AB. Baerga has
42 R and 49 RBI for 80 RP in 326 AB. Now I agree that R and RBI
(and hence runs produced) are heavily lineup dependent. But from
looking at *these* numbers, there is no way you can *possibly* take
Baerga over Alomar! He has 10% fewer runs produced in 20% more AB!
Or did you forget to notice that Alomar has missed a few games?
Of course, you want to argue that R and RBI are bad measures of
a player. That we should look at OBP and SLG instead. Right?
At least Baerga has *some* hope of comparing on that field!
>Counter point #3: Alomar's defense is AVERAGE! He has speed, but does
>not get a good jump and is slow turning two.
Bullshit. Dig your nose out of the stat book some time, and drag it
to a game or two. You are making these accusations up off the top of
your head. They aren't just unfounded, they are false!
>Counter point #4: Mack vs. Hall. I like Shane Mack alot, but Hall is
>streaking tothe break and Mack is slumping. Very close choice. Again,
>with the RBI comparison, look who they each have hitting in the few
>spots in front of them. OBA - sure 70 point lead for Mack, but SLG - 20
>point lead for Hall.
Okay, Hall has Stankiewicz and Mattingly hitting in front of him.
Mack has Leius and Gagne. What were you saying? As for "streaking to
the break", Mack just had a 3-hit game. Again, what were you saying?
And I'm not sure how you can think that a 20 point SLG lead justifies
a 70 point OBP drop. Not to mention defense, where it is *obvious*
that Mack is better.
>Counter point #5: Belle vs. Molitor. Personal choice. Power over
>Average & Speed.
Strikeouts over clutch? If you like. Molitor is *the* reason why the
Brewers offense is doing so well. Again, I note that Molitor's BA is
higher than Belle's OBP. And Molitor has 8 more total bases on the
year (and a higher SLG)... You are giving up a *hell* of a lot of
offense by choosing Belle over Molitor. Now Belle has the potential
to do a lot better. But right now, Belle isn't doing all that well.
>Counter point #6: I still think Jack Morris is a great pitcher. Mike
>Mussina is great, but he has 20 years to make the team - Jack's almost
>done.
Then say that. Don't say "Morris is a winning pitcher with a
deceptive ERA". Say "Morris used to be great, and this is his last
chance". The first simply isn't true. The second you can get away
with.
>I believe I picked 20 out of 28 AL players and 20 out of 28
>NL players. Not bad considering I didn't pick the goofs like Sharperson
>and Bip Roberts. Plus, I only named 24 players.
Oh, you were trying to predict who *would* be chosen? You didn't make
that clear. I thought you actually *wanted* those wasteproducts on
the team. Hell, I could have picked 26 out of 28 if that was what you
were asking!
Don't you ever feel the need to *support* any of your statements?
In this post alone, you have come up with the following ridiculous
lines... (Honest guys, *he* said them. I didn't have to make these up!)
"Don Mattingly is the best fielding 1B in the AL by far"
"McGwire has an average glove"
"Alomar sucks at turning the DP"
"Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
mean anything"
"Look at the runs they have scored" (proving 42 R in 326 AB is better
than 48 R in 277 AB???)
"Alomar's defense is AVERAGE"
"[Alomar]... does not get a good jump"
"look who they each have hitting in the few spots in front of them"
(comparing Hall, batting #3-#5 and Mack batting leadoff)
And my favorite tandem:
"The All Star game is based on this year"
"Mussina is great, but he has 20 years to make the team - Jack's
almost done"
-Valentine
Jim Dean
> Pitcher 2 gets his out, and then Pitcher #1 is brought back to the mound and
> a new left fielder is brought in (second double switch). OK, my friend's
> question was this: If Pitcher #1 started the game, pitched 5 or more innings
> and held a lead when the first switch was made, and then when returning to the
> mound finished the game and preserved the lead, would he not get credit for
> BOTH a win and a save?
No. The save rule, 10.20, specifically states in section (2) that
winning pitcher is not eligible for a save.
--
Jim Dean (Internet: jim...@bnr.ca) +-----+ National Capital Baseball League
mild-mannered computer scientist -->|Phone|--> President. Pitcher. My knuckler?
Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa,Ont. |Booth| Not too legit to hit! 4-0, 1.88
Phone: (613) 763-2135 Fax: 763-7241 +-----+ Phone: (613) 723-1580
Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay
>Who should really be at the All-Star Game???
>LF Brady Anderson Surprise on the year. Bring everything to the game.
> Mel Hall Another 20HR 100RBI year. Better than what else is left.
Would you believe Rickey Henderson? Mel Hall's not the end of the
world, but you gotta walk some...
>CF Kirby Puckett Best player in baseball. Little more power and
>triple crown
Rubbish. If Kirby's the best player in baseball, I'm Dave Kirsch's
personal investment counselor. Kirby's OBP is never what you want
from the BPIB. And the triple crown, although nifty, includes RBIs,
which mean as much as Dave Till's voodoo bone tossing.
> Ken Griffey, Jr. Going to be the next Kirby Puckett with more speed.
Actually, He'll blow Kirby's career right out of the water, but
probably WON'T have more speed. I see KGJ run, and I don't think he's
fast at all. His running style has lots of wasted movement in it, and
he's lumbering a little. See also McGwire, Mark.
>RF Joe Carter Power. Great Arm. Continuously getting better.
With a below league average OBP. Next candidate.
And sorry to disappoint you, but don't bet on him 'continuously
getting better.' Maybe he'll walk more with age....
>3B Gary Sheffield What an improvement. Can this guy keep doing this?
Yes. Was there any doubt? The guy hit for average and power at age
22, and plays solid defense. His rap is due to media scorn and a
lousy organization not utilizing him properly. He's DEFINITELY for
real. I remember touting him and Edgar Martinez about three years
ago.
>C Darren Daulton Best season by a catcher in years. He really is
>this good.
> Don Slaught Excuse me, but this guy's hitting .400. Only 5sb allowed.
>
>LF Barry Bonds 2nd best player in the game. Too bad his attitude sucks.
Behind Kirby Puckett? Yeah, right. To quote Doc Exby's favorite
pitcher, "Kirby Puckett can't hold Barry Bonds' jock."
Coming soon....
Gary's "Cult of Personality" Team.
An OF of Joe Carter, Kirby Puckett, and Bo Jackson's a nice start.
And at the hot corner... #4, Carrrrr....
--
--Since four people asked for it in email, here are my favorite 100 songs---
31. 2112 - Rush +-----------------+
30. Fine Art Of Friendship - King's X | Gary Huckabay |
29. Solace Of You - Living Colour +-----------------+
A Colin Morton
>
>Coming soon....
>
>Gary's "Cult of Personality" Team.
>
>An OF of Joe Carter, Kirby Puckett, and Bo Jackson's a nice start.
>And at the hot corner... #4, Carrrrr....
>
to adopt it over fan voting?
....neeeeeeeeey....
Colin.
Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira
>I heard that Tom Kelly did not pick a backup 1st baseman for that
>All-Star Team. Is this true? How could he possibly leave Frank Thomas
>off the team?
Well, Paul Molitor is kind of the back-up first baseman for Kelly.
Its a shame Thomas, the best hitter in the game, didn't make it, but there are
a lot of players - Mickey Tettleton, the best catcher in baseball, and Kevin
Appier, for example - who you can say the same thing about.
Greg
--
sp...@panix.com "The one-O delivery to Fisk. He swings. Long drive,
cmcl2!panix!spira left field! If it stays fair, it's gone! Home Run!"
158-17 Riverside Dr. Ned Martin, 10/22/75
Whitestone NY 11357 (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira
>In response to "Valentine's" comments on my All Star predictions....
>Counter point #1: Mark McGwire *does* have and average glove. Don
>Mattingly is the best fielding 1B in the AL by far.
Mattingly is an average first baseman rangewise, though he does seem to
be good at receiving the ball. But McGwire is also quite good at the
latter, and he's had by far the best range out there the last few years.
Its no contest.
>Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
>The All Star game is based on this year. Alomar sucks at turning the
>DP. Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
>mean anything (kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career). Look
>at the runs they have scored and then consider that Baerga's SLG is
>lower and he only has one other guy in the entire batting order that
>will consistently drive him in. He is a clutch hitter! And for Alomar
>only havin 4 less RBI while hitting 2nd as apposed to Baerga hitting
>3rd....compare the bottom of the two teams orders and I don't think any
>explaination is needed.
Sigh. There's no such thing as a ballplayer who gets most of his hits or
homers or extra base hits when they don't count out - the creature doesn't
exist. And there's probably no such thing as a clutch hitter, and even there
is he would only help his team with a few extra runs a year by his clutchness.
Anyway, Baerga has an OBP 70 points lower than Alomar's and a SLG 20 points
lower. His range factor is much higher, but half year range factors really
have too small a sample size to really mean anything. Therefore, I think its
safe to assume that since Alomar was one of the better second basemen in the
world the last few years and Baerga was the worst around last year (as measured
by DA), its pretty silly to assume that Baerga is playing better defense. Its
possible, of course, but its unlikely.
>Counter point #4: Mack vs. Hall. I like Shane Mack alot, but Hall is
>streaking tothe break and Mack is slumping. Very close choice. Again,
>with the RBI comparison, look who they each have hitting in the few
>spots in front of them. OBA - sure 70 point lead for Mack, but SLG - 20
>point lead for Hall.
You've just shown how Mack is much better. The only thing Hall has done
well so far this year is make outs. The most important thing an
offensive player can do is get on base a lot, and Hall's OBP is below
average for a shortstop - heck, he doesn't even deserve to be a starter
for a regular team the way he's playing, let alone on an All-Star team
You would need, oh, about 120 points of alugging to make up for those
70 points of OBP, by the way.
>Counter point #5: Belle vs. Molitor. Personal choice. Power over
>Average & Speed.
Molitor has a .498 SLG, Belle a .471. Molitor has an on-base percentage
70 points higher. Speed's pretty much irrelevant.
>Counter point #6: I still think Jack Morris is a great pitcher. Mike
>Mussina is great, but he has 20 years to make the team - Jack's almost
>done.
Jack Morris has a 4.51 ERA. He's given the other team the lead in 12 different
games. The only reason he has a good record is that every time he tries to
lose a game his team insists on scoring runs to win it.
>BTW, jerkie, I believe I picked 20 out of 28 AL players and 20 out of 28
>NL players. Not bad considering I didn't pick the goofs like Sharperson
>and Bip Roberts. Plus, I only named 24 players.
Roberts has a nice .374 OBP. Lou Pinella considers him the Reds' MVP so far.
Sharperson's hit better than any second basemen in the NL, though the sample
size is a bit small.
David DeMers
>In response to "Valentine's" comments on my All Star predictions....
>First I must again point out that I did not pick at least one player
>from each team intentionally - that rule is stupid.
>Counter point #1: Mark McGwire *does* have and average glove. Don
>Mattingly is the best fielding 1B in the AL by far.
Er. NOT! You mention in 2 below that we are talking about
this year. Mattingly stinks.
>Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
>The All Star game is based on this year. Alomar sucks at turning the
>DP. Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
>mean anything (kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career). Look
>at the runs they have scored and then consider that Baerga's SLG is
>lower and he only has one other guy in the entire batting order that
>will consistently drive him in. He is a clutch hitter! And for Alomar
>only havin 4 less RBI while hitting 2nd as apposed to Baerga hitting
>3rd....compare the bottom of the two teams orders and I don't think any
>explaination is needed.
This seems to be several non-points. Baerga is about average as
a 2B, Alomar is about the best. Alomar turns a pretty good DP,
the reason his total # of DPs are low is that he doesn't get
many chances. Alomar gets his extra base hits when they don't
mean anything? Kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career?
Right. [Baerga] is a clutch hitter? right.
Compare RBI to RBI opps.
Alomar is better offensively AND defensively. Baerga is having
a pretty good year, but your points are just not supported by
the facts.
>Counter point #3: Alomar's defense is AVERAGE! He has speed, but does
>not get a good jump and is slow turning two.
He has GREAT range & has been near the top defensively every season.
Lind, Sandberg in good years, Gallego are all pretty good, and it's
hard to say which is the best in baseball. Probably Lind, but
Alomar is probably the best in the AL. Speed helps a lot. His
instincts were great in San Diego. I haven't seen him much
this year, but I can't believe he's slowing down already.
If you look at plays made per opportunity, Alomar looks VERY good.
So I'll say that both stats and subjective opinion put Alomar over
Baerga with the glove.
>Counter point #4: Mack vs. Hall. I like Shane Mack alot, but Hall is
>streaking tothe break and Mack is slumping. Very close choice. Again,
>with the RBI comparison, look who they each have hitting in the few
>spots in front of them. OBA - sure 70 point lead for Mack, but SLG - 20
>point lead for Hall.
OK. Edge to Mack. Even though he's "slumping", he's still ahead
on year-to-date. Plus he had a better second half last year.
>Counter point #5: Belle vs. Molitor. Personal choice. Power over
>Average & Speed.
OK, everyone can vote for personal choices. Molitor is probably
still more valuable, though. Belle just eats up the outs, and
Molitor doesn't. Oh, on the power thing, Molitor is out slugging
Belle. So you are choosing Power over Average, Speed, OBP and
more Power.
>Counter point #6: I still think Jack Morris is a great pitcher. Mike
>Mussina is great, but he has 20 years to make the team - Jack's almost
>done.
Mike is a MUCH better pitcher this year, though. The game really
shouldn't just be an attendance award, should it?
>BTW, jerkie, I believe I picked 20 out of 28 AL players and 20 out of 28
>NL players. Not bad considering I didn't pick the goofs like Sharperson
>and Bip Roberts. Plus, I only named 24 players.
Good for you, though it's pretty silly to call Bip a "goof". He's
been the best leadoff man in the NL for 4 years now, can play
good defense at third and OF, and adequate at 2B (actually his
stats show that he's above average at 2B, but he sure doesn't
look like it...). Hitting .300, OBP of .375 or so. Good
basestealer. And Sharperson is having a great season too.
You are zero for six on counter points, with bonus demerits
for the ``goof'' comment. Pretty feeble, even though it's
just for the All-Star game.
--
Dave DeMers ddemers@UCSD dem...@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering C-014 demers%c...@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego ...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114 (619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay
>In response to "Valentine's" comments on my All Star predictions....
>
>First I must again point out that I did not pick at least one player
>from each team intentionally - that rule is stupid.
I dunno. I sort of like it. I say expand the roster sizes.
>Counter point #1: Mark McGwire *does* have and average glove. Don
>Mattingly is the best fielding 1B in the AL by far.
I disagree. You've made a statement - subjectively, we vary in our
conclusions. I challenge you to prove your statement, using any
method you feel is valid, and please be prepared to defend your
method.
>Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
>The All Star game is based on this year.
Maybe. Some people disagree. Prove your statement. Show your work.
>Alomar sucks at turning the
>DP. Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
>mean anything (kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career).
Prove it.
>Look
>at the runs they have scored and then consider that Baerga's SLG is
>lower and he only has one other guy in the entire batting order that
>will consistently drive him in. He is a clutch hitter!
Ladies and Gentlemen, now on the high wire...
>Counter point #4: Mack vs. Hall. I like Shane Mack alot, but Hall is
>streaking tothe break and Mack is slumping. Very close choice. Again,
>with the RBI comparison, look who they each have hitting in the few
>spots in front of them. OBA - sure 70 point lead for Mack, but SLG - 20
>point lead for Hall.
May I have a show of hands of all those who would trade 70! points of
OBP for 20 points of slugging? Thank you. Bailiff... Have those
people beaten severely with wet sausages, except for that Lundy
fellow, who would likely enjoy it.
>Counter point #5: Belle vs. Molitor. Personal choice. Power over
>Average & Speed.
Let's see... Uh.... yeah. Anyone else want this one?
Ok, Todd. Thanks for playing. Greg Spira, what does Todd win?
--
--Since four people asked for it in email, here are my favorite 100 songs---
28. What's Your Favorite Colour? - Living Colour +-----------------+
27. Lost In Germany - King's X | Gary Huckabay |
26. Couldn't Get It Right - Climax Blues Band +-----------------+
Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira
>Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
>The All Star game is based on this year. Alomar sucks at turning the
>DP. Alomar has a tendency to get those extra base hits when they don't
>mean anything (kind of like Strawberry's homers his whole career). Look
>at the runs they have scored and then consider that Baerga's SLG is
>lower and he only has one other guy in the entire batting order that
>will consistently drive him in. He is a clutch hitter! And for Alomar
>only havin 4 less RBI while hitting 2nd as apposed to Baerga hitting
>3rd....compare the bottom of the two teams orders and I don't think any
>explaination is needed.
[Caveat - The below use of supposed "clutch hitting stats" does not
indicate that I believe in any kind of clutch hitting "ability." I don't.
However, these stats do provide a record of what has happened.]
Carlos Baerga 1992
AVG OBP SLG
Total .311 .348 .450
RISP .303 .343 .360
Late & Close .373 .429 .431
With runners in scoring position, Baerga has gotten on base less frequently
and hit for substantially less power. In late & close games he gets on
base more but his power is way down.
Roberto Alomar 1992
AVG OBP SLG
Total .328 .414 .466
RISP .377 .494 .594
Late & Close .490 .583 .633
With runners in scoring position so far this year, Alomar's OBP is way up
and his slugging is way up. In late & close games, well, his stats are up
even further.
And so far this year, Alomar has performed much better in these high leverage
situations than Carlos Baerga. Much.
The claim that Alomar gets most of his hits and extra base hits in
unimportant situations IS COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE.
Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira
Hold Your Peace
Second And Last Warning
In <15...@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuh...@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay) writes:
>Let's see... Uh.... yeah. Anyone else want this one?
>Ok, Todd. Thanks for playing. Greg Spira, what does Todd win?
Well, Gary, since you asked .....
Todd actually has a choice between three <very special> prizes
Now, Todd will have to choose between them without knowing what
they are, but since he's in an isolation booth, I can tell you and
our studio audience exactly what prizes are behind Doors #1, 2, and 3.
First, a very unique prize is behind Door #1 - the Huckaby Stylizer. Yes,
now you too can have your posts sound exactly like Gary Huckaby's thanks
to this unique piece of software from Davidscorp. Its very easy to use -
you can write your posts just as you always have, and you don't have to
put any effort into making them sound any different than the average Usenet
post. Then, after you've finished, just let the Huckaby stylizer "operate"
on your post. The results will be downright astonishing - your post will
read exactly like a Huckaby post! In fact, in a recent test conducted by
Tate-Nichols Research Inc., 100 random Usenet readers were given one piece
by Huckaby and one piece by an average rsb'er treated by the Huckaby stylizer,
and 68 out of those 100 readers thought that the stylized piece was by the real
Gary and that Gary's piece was the one that had been altered! I myself think
its a downright amazing piece of software, and well worth any price! Here's
a quote from a satisfied user:
"The Huckaby Stylizer has done incredible things for my writing! Now I think
I can finally make an impact in my field." - John Stuart Mill
Behind number two is an equally exciting gift. Okay, the tiny envelope may
not look like much. But inside the envelope are certificates entitling
a winner to free admission for all 8 sessions of Dave Kirsch's world famous
seminar "How To Find And Buy The Car Of Your Dreams About 100 Years After
You Need It." Most people, I think, have had that need new car feeling -
you know, you just feel like a new car is something you should look for.
Its probably better that you don't buy one, but in order to fulfill your basic
needs you just have to spend hours and hours looking for one. The problem is,
though, that most people who spend all that time looking are going to end up
buying one, just because you're bound to happen into one that fulfills all
your needs. Even if you have no idea what you're doing, it happens. Just by
random chance.
What's special about Dave's seminar is that he'll show you the way to avoid
that possibility. Once you've gone through all 8 sessions, you'll have all
the necessary tools to make sure that your car search never turns up the
right car. Where else can you learn such things? No place that I know of.
That's why I think this prize is one that is bound to please anyone who picks
it.
Behind door #3, though, is really our most special prize. For many months
now you've been hearing about all sorts of new Lundyproducts that have been
arriving on our shores. Lundylatex has gotten the most publicity, but in
fact there are now over 300 different products being sold in K-Marts and other
chain stores around the country. But most people can't afford to purchase
every single Lundyproduct, no matter how badly they need them. Now, though -
and we're able to announce it here for the very first time - our crack research
team of Brooks, Sabatella, Thornley & DeMers has come up with an economical
answer to this current crisis. Introducing ... the Lundyizer. Yes, now, you
at home can manufacture your own Lundyproducts with the help of this
deceptively simple looking gadget. And the Lundyizer is guaranteed safe!
Before we would release it to the public we checked it out by hiring two
former Usenetters, Al Feldstein and Spike, to test it out for us. There were
a few minor problems that came up during the tests, one of which caused Spike
to change his name to Dribble, but we're now sure that we've got everything
ironed out. Just think of the benefits - now, for just a one time fee, you
buy the ability to create a variety of Lundyproducts - Lundybathroomtissue,
Lundycontraceptives, Lundyketchup - whenever you want. And, of course, you
can manufacture an endless supply of traditional Lundylatex! (How do you think
we got Dave to give us the free seminar passes - We offered him a lifetime
supply of Lundylatex, of course.)
Now, of course, we have to wait to find out which prize he'll choose....
Jim Muchow
>You *are* joking, right? Mark McGwire is the best defensive 1B in the
>league.
As you say yourfles: you *are* joking, right? Hrbek is the best defensive
1B in the league.
Jim Muchow - sorry
Carl Rempert
[Stuff deleted]
>BULLSHIT! Did you see my post? He has blown *5* leads already this
>year. And given up the go-ahead run 12 times in 16 starts. There is
>*no* reason in the world to take Morris when you could have Mussina.
>Unless you enjoy shit pitchers on your all-star team.
>
>If you are going to make statements like "he knows how to win", at
>least be able to back them up!
Why the profanity? It is this kind of post that people reference when
they claim how statheads jump down another posters throat. You can disagree
with the post and explain your reasons why, but there was nothing..NOTHING...
in the original post to warrant your tone.
However I'm sure all the fellow statheads will come out and say how this
response was not meant to be offensive, that is just "misunderstood" by all
the non-statheads.
Now to clarify my stance. I do not find issue with the contents of the post,
however I do take issue with the tone of it. It was unwarranted, rude, and
condescending.
Fire at will.
Carl R.
CZ94
I agree with Carl. The content of Valentine's postings are
often very interesting, but their tone very quickly becomes
extremely tiresome. I get the impression that Valentine lives
in a constant state of apopleptic fury at having to share the
planet with 5,000,000,000 idiots.
I wouldn't generalize this remark to all statheads, however.
Tom Box
CZ...@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Kurt Bose of Biscayzee
>In article <1992Jul10.0...@cs.cornell.edu> ted...@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>[Stuff deleted]
>
>>BULLSHIT! Did you see my post? He has blown *5* leads already this
>>year. And given up the go-ahead run 12 times in 16 starts. There is
>>*no* reason in the world to take Morris when you could have Mussina.
>>Unless you enjoy shit pitchers on your all-star team.
>>
>>If you are going to make statements like "he knows how to win", at
>>least be able to back them up!
>
>Why the profanity? It is this kind of post that people reference when
>they claim how statheads jump down another posters throat. You can disagree
>with the post and explain your reasons why, but there was nothing..NOTHING...
>in the original post to warrant your tone.
>
>However I'm sure all the fellow statheads will come out and say how this
>response was not meant to be offensive, that is just "misunderstood" by all
>the non-statheads.
>
when I felt the end justified the means, but Valentine, I have to say that I've
seen this particular excremental reference beginning more than a few of your
posts lately, though I have to admit I only bagan counting when one was directed
at me. :) Have you been letting off-duty Naval employees use your machine when
you're not around? :) :) :)
--
* Kurt Bose (as in * I am NOT the Antichrist, no matter what my future mother
* Daisy, not Rose) * in law may think. Nor do I pretend to speak for UNM. Tried
*kb...@carina.unm.edu* it one time, but they caught me at it. I think they were a
* Junior Stathead * tad miffed at me, sure, but the Dean's hair DID grow back.
Kurt Bose of Biscayzee
Excuse me..."yourfles"???
Honestly, Jim, I think that subscription to the Tom Kelly fan club is going to
your head...
DA (the defensive stat of choice here):
Year KH AGDA MM AGDA League
1988 66.9% 67.2% 68.8%
1989 68.3% 71.6% 64.7%
1990 57.3%! 71.8% 64.6%
1991 63.1% 74.3% 66.2%
Basically, for the uninitiated, these numbers are the percentage of balls hit
in a certain area (in this case, about a 25-degree arcstarting at the 1st base
line, between 30 and 200 feet from home plate)* turned into ground ball outs.
McGwire is the highest rated 1B by this method, which is used by Project
Scoresheet for defensive ratings. I'm not an insider, ask Sherri for details.
*(very approximate, given my poor drafting skills. I took this from a GIF
posted on here a couple of months ago.)
Kimon Zachary
In a previous article, CZ...@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) says:
>In article <1992Jul13....@cpqhou.compaq.com> ca...@cpqhou.compaq.com (Carl Rempert) writes:
>>.
> I agree with Carl. The content of Valentine's postings are
>often very interesting, but their tone very quickly becomes
>extremely tiresome. I get the impression that Valentine lives
>in a constant state of apopleptic fury at having to share the
>planet with 5,000,000,000 idiots.
> I wouldn't generalize this remark to all statheads, however.
>
Reminds me of the SNL skit "Sprockets"; "you...have become tiresome."
Now, we're getting a bit personal here..as for the indignation vis a vis
the alleged profanity, I would hardly deem an occasional interjection of
"shit" or "bullshit" extraordinarily offensive. I've even heard it on
network TV a couple times. Seems like we have some net.puritans among our
readers who probably find Murphy Brown offensive, too.
Besides, Mussina *has* pitched much better than Jack Morris this season
(and was quite impressive after his July? callup last year). I suppose one
could argue that Morris's career value, strong 1991 season, and amazing
postseason all should support an all-star berth, but his 1992 performance
really has not been all-star caliber.
--
Kimon "Islands" Zachary "I stand by all the misstatements that
JHU School of Med. I've made." --Dan Quayle
Baltimore, MD
CZ94
I objected to, but the general level of discourse. If someone says
that Morris is better than Mussina, he may be wrong, but I don't
think that justifies such a hostile reply, in either profane or
"polite" language. It's the "jumping down people's throat" that
disturbs me, not the profanity.
I can't comment on SNL or Murphy Brown, never having seen either
one.
In my previous posting, I used the word "stathead," a word I
had picked up from Kurt Bose's .sig. I now gather that some people
consider this word to be disparaging. I apologise if anyone found
this insulting. I like the postings by the stats people (what
should I call you?) very much.
Tom Box
CZ...@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
a_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
> In <AeLOBEe00...@andrew.cmu.edu> tf...@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd Harris Fletcher) writes:
>
>
>>Counter point #2: Baerga was a poor fielder - but that was last year.
>>The All Star game is based on this year.
Personally, I think AS selections should be based on the last half of the
previous season and the first half of the current season (disregarding playoff
performance, if any). Otherwise, its pretty silly.
>
> Sigh. There's no such thing as a ballplayer who gets most of his hits or
> homers or extra base hits when they don't count out - the creature doesn't
> exist. And there's probably no such thing as a clutch hitter, and even there
> is he would only help his team with a few extra runs a year by his clutchness.
Well, someone who hits above his career batting average with runners in scoring
position and in late innings of a close game is a clutch hitter. He doesn't
have to add many runs a year anyway -- in a one-run or tie game, a single run
is *very* important.
Brandon Cope
Sherri Nichols
>Well, someone who hits above his career batting average with runners in scoring
>position and in late innings of a close game is a clutch hitter.
Most hitters hit better with runners on base: are most hitters clutch
hitters?
Batting average with runners in scoring position, batting average in LIPS
(Late Inning Pressure Situations): these really are indistinguishable from
random. In other words, there is no tendency for hitters who are better in
average in these categories this year, to continue to be so. Yes, I know
you can trot out some people who have been better than average for extended
periods, but that doesn't contradict the random model.
> He doesn't
>have to add many runs a year anyway -- in a one-run or tie game, a single run
>is *very* important.
How many games are one-run games? How important is winning one-run games?
The media tends to make a big deal about winning the close games, but if
you look at good teams and how they win their games, the good teams win
more of the blowouts. In other words, if the difference in score is 3 runs
or more, the good team is more likely to be on the winning side. That
shouldn't be too surprising, since luck plays an even bigger role in a
one-run game. In a 3 run game, a bad-hop single is less likely to
influence the outcome of the game than it is to influence the outcome of a
1 run game.
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira
>In article <1992Jul10....@panix.com>, sp...@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>>
>> There's no such thing as a ballplayer who gets most of his hits or
>> homers or extra base hits when they don't count out - the creature doesn't
>> exist. And there's probably no such thing as a clutch hitter, and even there
>> is he would only help his team with a few extra runs a year by his clutchness.
>Well, someone who hits above his career batting average with runners in scoring
>position and in late innings of a close game is a clutch hitter.
No. That may mean that he has hit well in the clutch, but it does not mean
that he is a clutch hitter, or that he has hit well in those situations because
they were clutch. There are many hitters who have hit way above their regular
average on Tuesdays - are they automatically Tuesday hitters? No, of course
not. They just happened to hit better on Tuesday throughout their careers.
The fact that some people have hit better in "clutch" situations only means
that they have hit better in "clutch" situations. The evidence suggests that
clutch situations do not affect how a batter hits.
Besides
1) measuring a player's contributions by batting average, especially in
non-RISP situations, is pretty pointless.
2) the majority of players hit better with runners on because of various
reasons, mostly positioning of fielders.
3) what are you going to say if the player is great in licg and bad in risp?
He doesn't
>have to add many runs a year anyway -- in a one-run or tie game, a single run
>is *very* important.
One-run games are generally won by the team who is luckiest. That's why
teams that win a lot of one run games one year tend to decline the next year.
Teams win pennants because they have a good enough offense (compared to
their defense) not to get into close games where the luck factor becomes so
large.
a_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
> In article <1992Jul17...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> a_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>Well, someone who hits above his career batting average with runners in scoring
>>position and in late innings of a close game is a clutch hitter.
>
> Most hitters hit better with runners on base: are most hitters clutch
> hitters?
I should have said 'significantly better', like a .250 hitter who
hits at a .350 clip with runners on. Most major leager don't have huge gaps.
>
>> He doesn't
>>have to add many runs a year anyway -- in a one-run or tie game, a single run
>>is *very* important.
>
> How many games are one-run games? How important is winning one-run games?
> The media tends to make a big deal about winning the close games, but if
> you look at good teams and how they win their games, the good teams win
> more of the blowouts.
Point taken (and proved in the 1991 Elias, where it shows that the
closer the score, the more less likely the better team is to win (as compared to
blowouts, that is)). However, this would then suggest that late inning batting
stats are fairly meaningless, be it in a close game or a blowout.
Brandon Cope
Todd Harris Fletcher
>Personally, I think AS selections should be based on the last half of the
>previous season and the first half of the current season (disregarding playoff
>performance, if any). Otherwise, its pretty silly.
So what do you tell Jack Armstrong, Scott Erickson, Charles Nagy, Mark
McGwire, Brady Anderson, Doug Jones, Bob Tewksbury, Mike Sharperson,
Darren Daulton, and Gary Sheffield?
-Todd
Sherri Nichols
> I should have said 'significantly better', like a .250 hitter who
>hits at a .350 clip with runners on. Most major leager don't have huge
>gaps.
No, most don't, but some do, every year. The problem is, it's not the same
ones every year. As I pointed out in the part of my post you didn't quote,
it's indistinguishable from a random distribution.
> Point taken (and proved in the 1991 Elias, where it shows that the
>closer the score, the more less likely the better team is to win (as compared to
>blowouts, that is)). However, this would then suggest that late inning batting
>stats are fairly meaningless, be it in a close game or a blowout.
You're catching on....
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
David M Tate
I tell them "Do it for a whole season, and I'd be glad to vote for you."
Armstrong is the perfect example. He's not a star pitcher; he's not even
a *good* pitcher. What's more, it's perfectly likely that he wasn't a good
pitcher even when putting up that 'impressive' first-half record that made
him the All-Star game starter. All kinds of weird things can happen in 1/2
of a season.
If they're real stars, they'll keep it up, and then they'll be in the game
next year (unless silly people with short attention spans only vote based on
the first half of next season). If they're not, you've avoided the
embarrassment of having mediocre players in the All-Star game, at least
to some extent.
Mark McGwire, of course, is a different case. He's *returned* to All-Star
form after a one-year hiatus. That's a lot different from having a hot first
half of his first year.
>
>-Todd
--
David Tate | "When tomatoes last in the bullpen bloom'd,
dt...@unix.cis | And the great star early troop'd to the showers in the night
.pitt.edu | I mourned, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring."
IE, U. Pitt | --Walt "Lefty" Whitman
Ron Graham
writes...
>In article <QeOfiHe00WBMM1K=h...@andrew.cmu.edu> tf...@andrew.cmu.edu
> (Todd Harris Fletcher) writes:
>>So what do you tell Jack Armstrong, Scott Erickson, Charles Nagy, Mark
>>McGwire, Brady Anderson, Doug Jones, Bob Tewksbury, Mike Sharperson,
>>Darren Daulton, and Gary Sheffield?
>I tell them "Do it for a whole season, and I'd be glad to vote for you."
Let's see...since half the names on that list are *pitchers*, it looks as
though you won't be voting for them in any case.
:-) :-) :-)
RG
"And I would be *remiss* if I didn't mention...Jesus Christ is here today,
with a party of twelve...it's 'Sandals Day' at Wrigley...there's a triple
play...bought a hot dog in the seventh...fed the *whole right field bleacher
section*!"
a_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
I tell them "Too bad". I think it is silly to ignore half a season when
voting for All Stars. Then again, with the way most 'fans' vote, current
performance doesn't seem to come into consideration much.
Brandon Cope