First black major leaguer: Babe Ruth
vaze...@my-deja.com
another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
that point: The Babe.
We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
know who parented him.
It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Brett Wilson
: I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
: another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
: that point: The Babe.
: We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
: know who parented him.
: It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
: known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
Slightly different angle: why did the Babe have multiple nicknames with a
Middle East/Far East flavor, like "the Sultan of Swat"? Was that based on
his perceived ethnicity, or was it just an example of that early
20th-century newspaperman inventiveness? --BW.
jmac
vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> that point: The Babe.
>
> We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
> know who parented him.
>
> It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
> known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
>
which half?
David Marc Nieporent
Great. Only he wasn't born in an orphanage, and we know exactly who
parented him.
Given that, why would we listen to your contentions?
--
David M. Nieporent Roberto Petagine for the
niep...@alumni.princeton.edu Hall of Fame
Glenn Tanner
> I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> that point: The Babe.
Maybe it's also time for you recognize that they were both preceeded by
other black major leaguers. Try Fleet Walker if you want to recognize black
baseball pioneers.
GT
Terry May
>vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
>> known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
>
>which half?
Depends on if they were home or away.
--
"He almost ruined his career two days ago in Boston, going into the
center-field wall hard. And the only thing he said when I got out there
was, 'I should have caught the ball.'" - Bobby Cox on Andruw Jones
David Andrew Leonardo Marasco
>I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
>another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
>that point: The Babe.
Moses Fleetwood Walker was known as The Babe?
>
>We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
>know who parented him.
>
Funny, I've been to the house where Babe Ruth was born. It didn't look like
an orphanage to me.
>It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
>known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
Some people would say the same about me... They're wrong.
David Marasco mar...@nwu.edu http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~dmarasco
The Diamond Angle - Issue #59-B is now on the Web:
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/1538/TDA59B.html
Gregory Gliedman
vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> that point: The Babe.
>
There were (openly) African-American players before that; Fleet Walker, a
catcher with the American Association comes to mind.
>
> We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
> know who parented him.
>
> It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
> known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
>
There were certianly rumors that Ruth was partially of African-American
decent (IIRC Ty Cobb once refused to room with him on those grounds), and
it's possible the rumors were true. But his parents are known to us:
George Sr. & his wife Kate raised Ruth for the first few years of his life
before depositing him in an orphanage. There's a photo of Ruth Sr. behind
his bar and IIRC he is a dead ringer for his son.
Dactyl01
were thought of as white who had some African-American ancestors in their
family trees. However, Robinson was the first African-American identified as
such as stigmatized as such. That's the difference.
Roger Moore
>I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
>another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
>that point: The Babe.
I think that it's time to stop digging up hoary old, thoroughly debunked
legends.
>We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
>know who parented him.
Ruth was born in his parent's home, and was sent to an orphanage because
he was a juvenile delinquent and his parents couldn't deal with him.
There are wonderful pictures of him tending bar with his father after his
first season in the majors, and they are so similar that you could easily
confuse them.
>It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
>known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
It was also widely know at that time that blacks were inherently inferior
to whites and that it was against natural law for them to interbreed.
Just because people "knew" it doesn't mean that it was so. There's
reasonably long discussion of this in Creamer's biography of the Babe, and
the whole "Babe was part black" myth is thoroughly demolished.
--
Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (r...@alumni.caltech.edu)
"While baseball remains our national game, our national tastes will be on
a higher level and our national ideals on a finer foundation."
-Calvin Coolidge
PAUL MACCA
>another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
>that point: The Babe.
>
>know who parented him.
The Babe wasn't born in an orphanage. He lived with his parents but was
neglected by them. At the age of 7, he was sent to the St. Mary's Industrial
School for Boys, which was a juvenile detention center ran by Catholic priests
who gave the boys training in vocations such as tailoring. Most of the boys in
St. Marys had parents who visited them every so often. Not surprisingly, the
Babe was never visited by his parents. In that sense, he was treated like he
was an orphan as his mother and father wanted to have nothing to do with him.
His parents were Kate and George Herman Ruth. No secret about that.
vaze...@my-deja.com
to determine whether young Babe was the shamed result of a fling momma
had with a black stud.
Sounds like good conspiracy theory to me.
And golly wouldn't it make good TV!
In article <20000811152640...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
Tom MacIntyre
>Too bad we didn't have Maury Povich back then to do DNA tests
>to determine whether young Babe was the shamed result of a fling momma
>had with a black stud.
>
>Sounds like good conspiracy theory to me.
>
>
>And golly wouldn't it make good TV!
>
Maury Povich and good TV, all in the same post...what a topic change
that was! :-)
Tom
Roger Moore
>On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:35:30 GMT, vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>Too bad we didn't have Maury Povich back then to do DNA tests
>>to determine whether young Babe was the shamed result of a fling momma
>>had with a black stud.
>>
>>Sounds like good conspiracy theory to me.
>>
>>
>>And golly wouldn't it make good TV!
>>
>Maury Povich and good TV, all in the same post...what a topic change
>that was! :-)
Maury could have gotten his father, famed Washington sportswriter Shirley
Povich, to get him the DNA samples. The elder Povich was covering the
game back in Ruth's heyday, so he would have had ample opportunity.
WillReich
orphanage was due to his being uncontrollable; the orphanage was
was also used as a home for wayward youth or reform school of
sorts.
There WERE rumors about Ruth's ancestry floating about and the
people who promulgated them thoght that they were attacking Ruth
by saying this. I don't consider it an attack but I will point
out one salient fact. If you get a series of group photos from
Bavaria, you will see MANY visages that resemble the Babe,
including the so-called "Negro features."
--
Will
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
WillReich
His mom certainly wanted him home and his sister said that she
cried when he had to go back. He was reunited with his folks
several times. In fact, he did not usually treat them badly; he
was just totally out of control if out of their presence. It is
a striking fact, according to the biographers and the newspaper
accounts of his life, that the Babe almost never seemed to be
acting out of malice and that the people with whom he came in
contact usually seemed to love him, even while deploring his
conduct. I think his parents fall into that group.
Mark Eddy
and his first wife in Cambridge Mass. when he played for the sox. Well it
seems the Babe's first baby was born and was obviously black and the Bambino
blamed it on his wife and there was some kind of paternity testing done and
it was definitely The Babe's Baby. His wife's lineage was looked into and it
was decided if the baby was black it was because of the Babe's blood not his
wife's. From what I understand is he wasn't married to her too long. You can
choose to believe this or not but my Great grandmother was not one to tell
bullshit stories and I believe her. This is the first time I've ever heard
of anyone else bring this up.
Maineyak
vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Too bad we didn't have Maury Povich back then to do DNA tests
> to determine whether young Babe was the shamed result of a fling momma
> had with a black stud.
>
> Sounds like good conspiracy theory to me.
>
> And golly wouldn't it make good TV!
>
> In article <20000811152640...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> paul...@aol.com (PAUL MACCA) wrote:
> > >I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> > >another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up
> to
> > >that point: The Babe.
> > >
> > >We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
> > >know who parented him.
> >
> > The Babe wasn't born in an orphanage. He lived with his parents but
> was
> > neglected by them. At the age of 7, he was sent to the St. Mary's
> Industrial
> > School for Boys, which was a juvenile detention center ran by Catholic
> priests
> > who gave the boys training in vocations such as tailoring. Most of
> the boys in
> > St. Marys had parents who visited them every so often. Not
> surprisingly, the
> > Babe was never visited by his parents. In that sense, he was treated
> like he
> > was an orphan as his mother and father wanted to have nothing to do
> with him.
> >
Rick Jones
wrote:
>My great Grandmother swears this is true. She was neighbors with the Babe
>and his first wife in Cambridge Mass. when he played for the sox.
Your great grandmother is very old and has obviously either gotten
something mixed up or is simply remembering fiction as fact, which
people tend to do after a long time as passed.
David Andrew Leonardo Marasco
>My great Grandmother swears this is true. She was neighbors with the Babe
>seems the Babe's first baby was born and was obviously black and the Bambino
>blamed it on his wife and there was some kind of paternity testing done and
>it was definitely The Babe's Baby. His wife's lineage was looked into and it
IIRC, until we understood DNA the best you could do was a test for blood type,
which could reject a man as possible father, but could not prove that he
was the father.
David Marasco mar...@nwu.edu http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~dmarasco
The Diamond Angle is now online!
http://thediamondangle.com
Berserker 79
Mark Eddy wrote in message <3995FEF4...@mint.net>...
>My great Grandmother swears this is true. She was neighbors with the Babe
>and his first wife in Cambridge Mass. when he played for the sox. Well it
>seems the Babe's first baby was born and was obviously black and the
Bambino
>blamed it on his wife and there was some kind of paternity testing done and
>it was definitely The Babe's Baby. His wife's lineage was looked into and
it
his
>wife's.
If Babe Ruth's alleged black ancestry is far from proven (and would have
been a smidgen at the most, anyway), and his wife was white, how could they
have an "obviously black" baby? Children of one black parent and one white
parent aren't even "obviously black" -- look at Derek Jeter. Your grandma
may well have believed the story to be true, but that doesn't mean it was.
-B79
Tom MacIntyre
Whatever the truth of this entire matter is, genetics doesn't always
work in a straight-forward fashion.
Tom
Bronsius Mogath
> I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> that point: The Babe.
>
> We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
> know who parented him.
>
> It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
> known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
>
>
I suppose that was a contributing factor to his greatness? Why do things
like this matter a little over fifty years after his death?
Regards,
Jeff
Bronsius Mogath
> vaze...@my-deja.com writes:
>
> >I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> >another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> >that point: The Babe.
>
> I think that it's time to stop digging up hoary old, thoroughly debunked
> legends.
>
> >We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
> >know who parented him.
>
> Ruth was born in his parent's home, and was sent to an orphanage because
> he was a juvenile delinquent and his parents couldn't deal with him.
> There are wonderful pictures of him tending bar with his father after his
> first season in the majors, and they are so similar that you could easily
> confuse them.
>
Truth be told!! Anything I ever read about The Babe said the same as
above. I'll NEVER EVER understand what the color of a man's skin has to do
with anything.
Regards,
Jeff
Eramon1
>
>I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
>another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
>that point: The Babe.
>
>We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
>know who parented him.
>
>It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
>known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
>
What's even more astounding is the recent confirmation of the widespread rumors
that Satchel Paige was white!
spike white
"Berserker 79" <brin...@berserker.79> wrote in message
news:Uptl5.34864$RG6.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Mark Eddy wrote in message <3995FEF4...@mint.net>...
> >My great Grandmother swears this is true. She was neighbors with the Babe
> >and his first wife in Cambridge Mass. when he played for the sox. Well it
> >seems the Babe's first baby was born and was obviously black and the
> Bambino
> >blamed it on his wife and there was some kind of paternity testing done
and
> >it was definitely The Babe's Baby. His wife's lineage was looked into and
> it
> >was decided if the baby was black it was because of the Babe's blood not
> his
> >wife's.
>
> If Babe Ruth's alleged black ancestry is far from proven (and would have
> been a smidgen at the most, anyway), and his wife was white, how could
they
> have an "obviously black" baby? Children of one black parent and one
white
> parent aren't even "obviously black" -- look at Derek Jeter. Your grandma
> may well have believed the story to be true, but that doesn't mean it was.
Children of one black parent and one white parent usually have a "Mendel's
peas"
thing going on.
That is, one might be dark, looking obviously black. Another two might be
in
the middle, like Derek Jeter or Vanessa Williams. And a fourth might end up
light, not looking multi-racial at all (like Mariah Carey).
I'd heard a lot of folks in Ruth's day thought he was part-black because of
that
big snozz.
Spike
spike white
<vaze...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8mv601$8s4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> that point: The Babe.
Even if this were true, the Babe was preceded by Fleet Walker.
Spike
Jack Heraty
>I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
>another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
>that point: The Babe.
>
>We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
>know who parented him.
Where did you get the idiotic idea that no one knows who parented him?
He was not "born in an orphanage" and he was not an orphan.
You might want to do a little research.
>
>It's quite obvious simply by looking - and I contend that it was widely
>known at the time - that the Babe was at least half black.
>
So anyone with a flat nose must be "at least half black". Amazing.
--
Jack Heraty
Don't take the world serious.
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds."
- Red Smith
Jack Heraty
>Too bad we didn't have Maury Povich back then to do DNA tests
>to determine whether young Babe was the shamed result of a fling momma
>had with a black stud.
I wonder how Maury would explain the unmistakeable physical
resemblance to George Herman Ruth Sr. (who was of German ancestry)
>
>Sounds like good conspiracy theory to me.
>
>
>And golly wouldn't it make good TV!
>
>
>
>
>In article <20000811152640...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> paul...@aol.com (PAUL MACCA) wrote:
>> >I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
>> >another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up
>to
>> >that point: The Babe.
>> >
>> >We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
>> >know who parented him.
>>
>> The Babe wasn't born in an orphanage. He lived with his parents but
>was
>> neglected by them. At the age of 7, he was sent to the St. Mary's
>Industrial
>> School for Boys, which was a juvenile detention center ran by Catholic
>priests
>> who gave the boys training in vocations such as tailoring. Most of
>the boys in
>> St. Marys had parents who visited them every so often. Not
>surprisingly, the
>> Babe was never visited by his parents. In that sense, he was treated
>like he
>> was an orphan as his mother and father wanted to have nothing to do
>with him.
>>
>> His parents were Kate and George Herman Ruth. No secret about that.
>>
>>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
--
Steve Cutchen
> vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Too bad we didn't have Maury Povich back then to do DNA tests
> >to determine whether young Babe was the shamed result of a fling momma
> >had with a black stud.
>
> I wonder how Maury would explain the unmistakeable physical
> resemblance to George Herman Ruth Sr. (who was of German ancestry)
Also, George was the spitting image of his father... See Creamer, page 129
Even through his folks put him in St. Mary's, he still stayed close to
them. Early in his career, he helped out in the bar in the off season.
This is not a new issue, just a wrong one. Ruth's nickname all the while
he was at St. Mary's was Niggerlips. Fellow St. Mary's alum Lawton
Sternsen said, "Any time you called him that you could get yourself a
fight."
Ruth ran into Sternsen in New York in 1930 and said to him, "Now don't you
call me Niggerlips, or I'll break your arm."
--
---Steve Cutchen O- | Baseball: Umpiring, Quotes and Poetry
scut...@airmail.net | Maxima MaxFAQ & Villager and Quest FAQ
--------------
An eclectic mix at http://web2.airmail.net/scutchen
Tim Irvin
<spr...@ix.killspam.netcom.com> wrote:
> vaze...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >I think it's time to recognize that Jackie Robinson was preceded by
> >another black in the major leagues, perhaps the great player ever up to
> >that point: The Babe.
> >
> >We know that he was born & raised in an orphanage and nobody seems to
> >know who parented him.
>
> Where did you get the idiotic idea that no one knows who parented him?
> He was not "born in an orphanage" and he was not an orphan.
>
> You might want to do a little research.
You mean like realizing that Fleet Walker was playing major league ball
for Toledo more than a decade before Ruth was *born*?
--
Tim Irvin, zig...@svpal.org ::::: http://home.pacbell.net/ziggy29/
** Don't use PacBell e-mail. It sucks. Please note the new address. **
"Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and
demand that they respect yours...Abuse no one and nothing, for abuse
turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision."
-- Tecumseh (1768-1813), Shawnee chief and statesman