Will Clark is a jerk
U13...@uicvm.uic.edu
Always in the game,
Phil
Tom White
>Will Clark should be hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball.
Read up on Tony Conigliaro and see if you still think this.
>
> Always in the game,
> Phil
--
Thomas White |
Austin, Texas | Famous Accountant trading cards!
| Collect all two!
twh...@mozart.amd.com |
jon...@ur.msstate.edu
Tell us something we don't know.
Kay
David McCarroll
Why, what did Will do?
--
Anthony Michael Jivoin
Will Clark is a class player. If you were pitching to Will you'd
get a rocket zipped by your ear at about 150 mph.
It is easy to get caught up in the media's perspective on a player,
but when living in the Bay area when Will was a rookie I had the
chance to hear his parents interviewed on the Giants flagship
station, KNBR.
When Will was growing up his father told him that when he was 14 or
so to start thinking about what he wanted to do in life. Will told
him he wanted to play baseball in the majors. His father backed him
all the way. Will made the choice.
Will loves the game and plays it in the style of Pete Rose, George
Brett, Dave Winfield, etc.
Some Will Clark facts:
His answering machine recording says "the Thrill is gone".
Homered in his first major league at-bat in the Houston Astrodome
off Nolan Ryan.
Learn something about the man before you go ripping him without
any facts to back up your claim. All I know is that someday Stan
Musial will be known as the next Will Clark.
Even though I very much dislike the Giants and especially their
fans, I say "GO, WILL the THRILL!!!
Anthony M. Jivoin
National Center for Atmospheric Research
RSF/ATD - FL1
P.O. Box 3000
Boulder, CO 80307
p.s. The ROCKIES will be hailed out, lightninged out and snowed out
at least once a year. Bring your titanium umbrellas if your coming
to Denver in the summertime.
Jason Lee
>In article <93096.184...@uicvm.uic.edu> <U13...@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>Will Clark should be hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball.
Now, I didn't see the original post, if there was one. Maybe that was the
original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
thing on them.
Will Clark is a great person. He donates large portions of his paycheck to
charitable organizations, never hesitates to make himself available. He is
a great role model for young kids. I see his intensity, and I want to
emulate that in everything I do. I have great respect for Will Clark.
I honestly think anybody who wishes hurt on another human being should
re-evaluate their own standing in the world.
--
Jason Lee jp...@oboe.calpoly.edu e ^ i*pi + 1 = 0 The most beautiful
jl...@cash.busfac.calpoly.edu equation in mathematics.
For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these:
"It might have been." John Greenleaf Whittier
Ian Lindsay
ago, when my brother and I were collecting autographs at Busch. "Pill" got
there a good *8* hours before the game, and there was a crowd of oh about
five people there. He completely refused to sign anything. To this day I
cannot bring myself to cheer for Will because he couldn't take two minutes
out of his precious time to give a fan a THRILL.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ilin...@slate.mines.colorado.edu | "I wish I had something cute to say.
| |..But I can't think of a &%#*@
| Ian Lindsay | thing!" -Punisher #42
WHAT DO YOU WANT
I can't stand Will myself, put this is just ridiculous, I think
that people who whine about the fact that some ball-player would
not take time out to sign a stupid autograph are just that
whiners. I don't think that any ballplayer HAS to sign an
autograph just because some 'fan' expects or demands that the
player should do so.
Doug White
P.S. The Giants suck eggs, the A's ROOOLE (hey Bose, how's that)
Steven M Casburn
T DO YOU WANT) writes:
>
>P.S. The Giants suck eggs, the A's ROOOLE (hey Bose, how's that)
My friends in Ohio ask me why I didn't go to Stanford. Was it money? Was
it grades? Was it extra-curriculars? Was it your dad the San Jose State alum?
And I tell them, yes, it was all those things, but there was one
overriding reason why I could never, ever go to Stanford:
A's fans. Ugh.
'Nuff said. :-)
Steve
(Bay Area native,
Giant fan)
[]
--
Steve Casburn (scas...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
"I personally despair of results from anything but violent and ruthless
truth-telling -- that will work in the end, even if slowly"
-- John Maynard Keynes, 1919
stee...@woods.ulowell.edu
> I hate Will "The Pill" Clark. Ever since the day in St. Louis two summers
> ago, when my brother and I were collecting autographs at Busch. "Pill" got
> there a good *8* hours before the game, and there was a crowd of oh about
> five people there. He completely refused to sign anything. To this day I
> cannot bring myself to cheer for Will because he couldn't take two minutes
> out of his precious time to give a fan a THRILL.
Sorry, but here I disagree. There is so much *shit* that goes on in the
autograph biz, most of the players are probably rather cynical. Little
kids come up with a stack of cards to sign, people ruin their clothes with
ink from their pens, they aren't given any peace in public, and most people
looking for autographs not only fail to provide even the most basic of
courtesy (i.e. please and thank you) but act as if that player *has*
to sign for them. Most players stop signing since they are fed up with
the whole rigamarole.
And then people get upset when they don't want to have anything to do with
the whole mess.
-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
Be resident in men like one another
And not in me. I am myself alone."
-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Mike Silverman
>Oh please,
>I can't stand Will myself, put this is just ridiculous, I think
>that people who whine about the fact that some ball-player would
>not take time out to sign a stupid autograph are just that
>whiners. I don't think that any ballplayer HAS to sign an
>autograph just because some 'fan' expects or demands that the
>player should do so.
Of course no player HAS to sign anything. I don't HAVE to give
money to charities. Just because someone doesn't have to do something
doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it. Players should sign. Simple
as that. We help pay their salary, they should be nice and sign
a few (especially for kids). On the other hand, fans should be
polite...I never have sympathy for assholes who push 20 cards in a guy's
face and rudely demand the player sign all of them.
--
msil...@nyx.cs.du.edu GO CUBS!!!
"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Ted Frank
>>Oh please,
>
>>I can't stand Will myself, put this is just ridiculous, I think
>>that people who whine about the fact that some ball-player would
>>not take time out to sign a stupid autograph are just that
>>whiners. I don't think that any ballplayer HAS to sign an
>>autograph just because some 'fan' expects or demands that the
>>player should do so.
>
>Of course no player HAS to sign anything. I don't HAVE to give
>money to charities. Just because someone doesn't have to do something
>doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it. Players should sign. Simple
>as that. We help pay their salary, they should be nice and sign
>a few (especially for kids). On the other hand, fans should be
>polite...I never have sympathy for assholes who push 20 cards in a guy's
>face and rudely demand the player sign all of them.
Why stop at autographs? Can I ask, "Hey, Will, can you give me twenty
dollars?" No? Sound unreasonable? But that's exactly what happens.
The reason players don't autograph things any more is because they've
seen too many "young adoring fans" who take the autograph and turn
around and sell it. A bummer for all concerned, but I prefer [pitcher]
Mike Marshall's approach: he'd say, "I'll trade you my autograph for
the autographs of all of your schoolteachers."
--
ted frank | "It should be noted that Ted Frank has been
th...@kimbark.uchicago.edu | accused publicly 40 times of being an NWO
the u of c law school | supporter and has never made an [sic] statements
standard disclaimers | to the contrary." -- A. J. Teel, in misc.legal
Randy Palermo
Any particular reason or is this the type of thing that you enjoy
watching?
luigi
--
Randy Palermo lu...@csd.sgi.com Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"
David McCarroll
During a rain delay this spring, I talked to Will Clark. He told me that
when he is at the ball-park, on the field, he doesn't sign autographs. He's
there to do work. I've had no problem, other than some crowds, getting him to
sign autographs, either in the parking lot or after the games. Even back
in 87, I got his autograph in the parking lot at Candlestick.
I see nothing wrong with his work attitude. I actually admire it.
--
Randy Palermo
>In article <1993Apr8.0...@slate.mines.colorado.edu>, ilin...@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Ian Lindsay ) writes:
>> I hate Will "The Pill" Clark. Ever since the day in St. Louis two summers
>> ago, when my brother and I were collecting autographs at Busch. "Pill" got
>> there a good *8* hours before the game, and there was a crowd of oh about
>> five people there. He completely refused to sign anything. To this day I
>> cannot bring myself to cheer for Will because he couldn't take two minutes
>> out of his precious time to give a fan a THRILL.
>
>Sorry, but here I disagree. There is so much *shit* that goes on in the
>autograph biz, most of the players are probably rather cynical. Little
>kids come up with a stack of cards to sign, people ruin their clothes with
>ink from their pens, they aren't given any peace in public, and most people
>looking for autographs not only fail to provide even the most basic of
>courtesy (i.e. please and thank you) but act as if that player *has*
>to sign for them. Most players stop signing since they are fed up with
>the whole rigamarole.
>
happened to be at spring training this year and witnessed some of it first
hand. There were obvious collectors there doing it for money. The players
seemed to try to avoid them but with a few exceptions always took the
time for the kids. Will Clark was a perfect example. I was sitting in the
parking lot at Scottsdale when Clark arrived, at 6:45am I might add. As
he got out of his car a group of kids came running over. He ran to the
back of the car and faked going to the right then back to the left, making
the kids chase him. He was laughing the whole time and so were the kids.
After playing the game for a few seconds, he stopped and signed for each
of them. He also signed a few others, for kids. He did not sign for the
adults.
Jeff Nimeroff
Yeah, and its not like their WHOLE income isn't based on merchandising and ticket sales
to those SAME fans. Most ball players use the same excuses because they are too immature to
realize that resposibility comes with the territory. They could always work at a job that wouldn't put them in the spotlight. They'd rather have the money though.
And to the person that put down Winfield and Brett by placing them in the same category as Rose and Clark, "get a life". Brett and Winfield have never been anything other than class. Clark and Rose play hard, but it is hardly the same thing!
Jeffry Nimeroff
Computer Graphics Research Laboratory
Computer and Information Science
University of Pennsylvania
Ph.D. 1993
Jason Lee
>I hate Will "The Pill" Clark. Ever since the day in St. Louis two summers
>ago, when my brother and I were collecting autographs at Busch. "Pill" got
>there a good *8* hours before the game, and there was a crowd of oh about
>five people there. He completely refused to sign anything. To this day I
>cannot bring myself to cheer for Will because he couldn't take two minutes
>out of his precious time to give a fan a THRILL.
Ball players already sign more autographs than are humanly acceptable. You
have to understand that they have a job to do, and they can't spend all of
their time signing autographs for self centered people such as you.
"I hate so-and-so because he wouldn't give me his autograph. I hate him. I
hate him. I hate him." Waaa. Grow up.
Edward Ouellette
I read somewhere that Will Clark would sign a baseball card if you sent one
in (only one per envelope). I didn't really believe it but I sent one to him
along with other players like Molitor and Dibble. This was in Dibble's second
year, whenever that was... anyways I got all 4 cards i sent to Dibble back,
signed, in less than 2 weeks. I got Will's card back like 4 months later and
it was signed. I never heard from Molitor. So I certainly vote against
hitting the Thrill in the face with a baseball at any speed. :)
EdO
Jeffrey Yang Ho-See [Rover]
>Of course no player HAS to sign anything.
True.
>Just because someone doesn't have to do something
>doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it. Players should sign. Simple
>as that. We help pay their salary, they should be nice and sign
>a few (especially for kids).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hear hear! Where would baseball be without those stories of as a little
kid I got blah blah's autograph??
I have asked Will Clark for his autograph once, and he slowly complied.
There was only about ten people around at the time. I've heard lots
of good things about Will and lots of bad. He is a really moody signer.
And he was a better signer earlier, but lately his inclination to do so
has declined. Also, I do believe the one complaining about Will's
attitude happened to be in St. Louis correct? Remember that big
fight between Ozzie and Will? You think Will remembers them
St. Louis fans? I think so...
Just making some noise,
- Jeffrey
David Marc Nieporent
>And then jon...@ur.msstate.edu quoth
>>In article <93096.184...@uicvm.uic.edu> <U13...@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>>Will Clark should be hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball.
>>Tell us something we don't know.
>Now, I didn't see the original post, if there was one. Maybe that was the
>original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
>is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
>thing on them.
Well, as far as I can tell, he's a racist sob.
>Will Clark is a great person. He donates large portions of his paycheck to
>charitable organizations, never hesitates to make himself available. He is
Lots of ballplayers, including Rickey Henderson, do this.
As if this didn't have to do with taxes, anyway.
>a great role model for young kids. I see his intensity, and I want to
>emulate that in everything I do. I have great respect for Will Clark.
I don't think ANY baseball player, or other athlete, is a good role model
for kids. How about people doing things for society? Now, this isn't a
bashing of baseball; I like it an awful lot. But I don't deify it.
It's a game. It's fun. It's an escape from the world. It's
entertainment, which everyone needs. But it's not exactly missionary
work in third world countries or teaching in inner cities or discovering
a cure for AIDS. *Those* are great role models for kids.
>I honestly think anybody who wishes hurt on another human being should
>re-evaluate their own standing in the world.
Well, this I agree with.
--
David M. Nieporent | "Only one thing wrong with theory...
niepornt@phoenix. | Is stupid! Is stupidest theory I ever heard!"
princeton.edu | ---------------------
Baltimore Orioles 93 | Who's the dangerous cult -- the BDs or the BATF?
David Maxwell
have said that about you? Well, you can add one more to that
list...you jerk.
Clark is a great ballplayer. Not many players in baseball have
his intensity and desire to win. So many players now a days are just
concerned with next years contract and really don't give a hoot
about winning a championship. Rickey Henderson comes to mind.
Next time why don't you try and post something that's really applicable
to baseball...and why don't you try backing it up.
Donald P Boell
stee...@woods.ulowell.edu
> Yeah, and its not like their WHOLE income isn't based on merchandising and
> ticket sales to those SAME fans. Most ball players use the same excuses
> because they are too immature to realize that resposibility comes with the
> territory. They could always work at a job that wouldn't put them in the
> spotlight. They'd rather have the money though.
I see. And the players are not allowed even common courtesies, like being
able to eat a meal and not be rudely interrupted by napkins and other
items put in front of their face for a signature. Players have a public
side, granted, and must be willing to deal with the fans. But fans have
an obligation to show these people some common courtesies as well. Why should
a player be obligated to stand in front of a crowd of > 20 people, all of
whom shout, clutch, grab, scream, and in general act like complete ASSHOLES
for an aoutograph, and then stand and swear and curse to the player's face
when he/she only signs one, or runs out of time and can't sign any more?
To be perfectly honest, if it were me, I'd be the same was as Will.
Brent Hutto
I've never met Will Clark (or any other big-league ball player), but
every interview or biographical story about him I've ever read talks
about how SERIOUSLY he takes the business of playing baseball. Now I
don't know if taking this to an extreme is called for, but for better
or worse I get the impression that he doesn't do anything much but
scowl a lot and think baseball thoughts on game days (at least until
after the game). Sounds like that's just the way he is, at least he's
consistent.
FWIW, I imagine being that "serious" all the time is a lot bigger
burden on him than his not entertaining autograph-seekers is on them.
My policy for dealing with very intense people is to let them be and
figure it's their health they're destroying by being uptight all the
time.
-------------------------------
Brent Hutto
hu...@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
Jackie F. Russell
>Clark is a great ballplayer. Not many players in baseball have
>his intensity and desire to win. So many players now a days are just
>concerned with next years contract and really don't give a hoot
>about winning a championship. Rickey Henderson comes to mind.
>Next time why don't you try and post something that's really applicable
>to baseball...and why don't you try backing it up.
Well I will back up for him :
I attend Mississippi State University. For those of you who
are real baseball fans, and know anything about the players, Will
Clark went to college at MSU. When he was in school he was a
arrogant bastard, and he still is. We had a Ron Polk(the MSU coach
for 18 years) 2 months ago, and some of the alumni of MSU came
(Will Clark, Bobby thigpen, Jeff Brantley, and John Grisham).
All of the players (and the writer Grisham) talked to everyone at the roast,
were very nice when asked for autographs, and were basically just all around
nice guys. When the roast was over, My family and I walked outside
with Jeff BRantley and his wife, and talked for about 15 minutes about
the ":good ole days" of college ball. Where was Will Clark during all
this? :
a) When autograophs were being signed before the roast started,
Will Clark made it a point to get someone from the Easter
Seals(whom the roast was benefited for) to tell everyone to
sit down and quit asking HIM for autographs. It was very funny
to see Jeff Brantley stand up and tell the kids that he would sign
anyone who wanted, and that Will Clark could sit there and be
arrogant if he wanted.
b) As SOON as the roast was over Clark was nowhere to be found. He
is surely a busy man, but 30 minutes of autographs and talking to
his fans would not be out of the question.
I agree with anyone who says Will Clark is arrogant when it comes
to anything, especially signing autographs. Hell, it runs in the family:
When meeting people in Starkville(home of MSU) Will Clarks sister
(who lives in Starkville) introduces herself as Will Clark's sister.
Basically the whole Clark family loves attention but doesnt want to
assocaiate with any of the fans who give them said attention.
Need I say more? I will if you want.
Russ
Raoul Villalpando
enormous salaries that players are getting paid today I appreciate seeing a
player who gives you 100% all the time. Not saying I don't enjoy the childlike
enthusiasm of a Dave Henderson, but when Will steps on the field he gives you
everything hes got, and I cant understand putting a man down for that. I do
believe that with the high profile status of being a baseball player comes a
certain amount of responsibility, but we must remember that first and foremost
baseball players are paid to play the game the best they can, and in that
respect Will does not disappoint.
-Raoul
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Raoul Villalpando
The George Washington University
Internet: sys...@gwunix5.gwu.edu
William Mark Ehlers
>In article <119...@netnews.upenn.edu>, jnim...@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Jeff Nimeroff) writes:
>> Yeah, and its not like their WHOLE income isn't based on merchandising and
>> ticket sales to those SAME fans. Most ball players use the same excuses
>> because they are too immature to realize that resposibility comes with the
>> territory. They could always work at a job that wouldn't put them in the
>> spotlight. They'd rather have the money though.
>
>I see. And the players are not allowed even common courtesies, like being
>able to eat a meal and not be rudely interrupted by napkins and other
>items put in front of their face for a signature. Players have a public
>side, granted, and must be willing to deal with the fans. But fans have
>an obligation to show these people some common courtesies as well. Why should
>a player be obligated to stand in front of a crowd of > 20 people, all of
>whom shout, clutch, grab, scream, and in general act like complete ASSHOLES
>for an aoutograph, and then stand and swear and curse to the player's face
>when he/she only signs one, or runs out of time and can't sign any more?
>
>To be perfectly honest, if it were me, I'd be the same was as Will.
>
>-darkelf
This reminds me of an experience that I had seeking an autograph. Right
before I started to college, my family went to Cooperstown to see Lou
Brock get inducted into the Hall of Fame (he was my favorite player).
Anyway, the Astros and RedSox were going to be playing in the Hall of
Fame game. Early Monday morning before the game, I was out wondering
around town, and happened to see Billy Doran of the Astros (1985). He
was alone and nobody else was around. I had a pen and paper (why ??).
I approached and said: "Excuse me Mr. Doran, do you have time to sign
your autograph ??" He looked kind of taken aback, but said sure. After
he finished signing I said, "Thanks a lot for your time, I really
appreciate the time." He again looked confused and asked me what I had
just said. I told him again that I appreciated his time in signing for
me. He then went on the tell me how refreshing it was to have somebody
come up and basically ask permission to ask for an autograph. He
continued to talk about how people are basically just rude or don't
think ball players mind the intrusions. We talked for a few minutes
about other things as well. Unfortunaltely, I can't find the autograph,
but the story and episode will always be with me. He has continured to
be one of my favorite players for no other reason than he took the time
to talk to me as a person. It was refreshing. He probably forgot all
about this by the end of the day, but it has stuck with since.....
One other autograph story concerning Lou Brock. I had a scrapbook on
him (actually still do). He was at a card show. The admission price
included one signature (more could be bought). I was going to have him
sign the inside cover of this scrapbook. My dad, was going to use his
ticket to get one of my cards signed. When I took the scrapbook to him,
he stopped and looked up at me and asked me what this was. I told him.
He spent a couple of minutes looking through. He then signed the inside
cover of the book, and then proceeded to sign the front as well. He
then asked me to select two cards for him to sign. I chose his rookie
card and 1967 (I think) card. It was a great experience.. Two years
ago, I got my picture taken shaking his hand at a show. I'm still
kicking myself for not taking the scrapbook again. Oh well, the picture
is framed and hanging in my home....
Any similar stories ???? e-mail or post
later,
---Mark
Gary The Burgermeister Huckabay
>Clark is a great ballplayer. Not many players in baseball have
>his intensity and desire to win. So many players now a days are just
>concerned with next years contract and really don't give a hoot
>about winning a championship. Rickey Henderson comes to mind.
Rickey Henderson comes to mind as a ballplayer who doesn't care
about winning a championship. I see.
Well, as I recall, Henderson and Clark met in the '89 World Series.
If memory serves, the Rickey and Jose-led A's destroyed the Giants
in four straight.
Does this mean that Rickey Henderson doesn't care about winning a
championship, but is SO MUCH BETTER than Will Clark that he can
win without trying? Or does it mean that maybe you know nothing about
what is in a player's heart or mind, because there's just no way
to tell?
Which of the points would you care to concede?
--
* Gary Huckabay * Kevin Kerr: The Al Feldstein of the mid-90's! *
* "A living argument for * If there's anything we love more than a huge *
* existence of parallel * .sig, it's someone quoting 100 lines to add *
* universes." * 3 or 4 new ones. And consecutive posts, too. *
Charles M Kozierok
} In article <1993Apr08.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu> jp...@cymbal.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee) writes:
} >Now, I didn't see the original post, if there was one. Maybe that was the
} >original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
} >is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
} >thing on them.
}
} Well, as far as I can tell, he's a racist sob.
why is that?
} >Will Clark is a great person. He donates large portions of his paycheck to
} >charitable organizations, never hesitates to make himself available. He is
}
} Lots of ballplayers, including Rickey Henderson, do this.
does this diminish Clark's contributions?
} As if this didn't have to do with taxes, anyway.
why do people always say this? tax deductions mean that while he might
contribute $1 million it will cost him less than that out of his pocket.
but certainly he doesn't make any money from this. or do you think he
is in a tax bracket above 100%?
also, does his tax deductibility diminish the benefit to the charity?
} >a great role model for young kids. I see his intensity, and I want to
} >emulate that in everything I do. I have great respect for Will Clark.
}
} I don't think ANY baseball player, or other athlete, is a good role model
} for kids. How about people doing things for society? Now, this isn't a
} bashing of baseball; I like it an awful lot. But I don't deify it.
} It's a game. It's fun. It's an escape from the world. It's
} entertainment, which everyone needs. But it's not exactly missionary
} work in third world countries or teaching in inner cities or discovering
} a cure for AIDS. *Those* are great role models for kids.
i think some baseball players *are* good role models--often just not the ones
kids look up to. many players exemplify the ideal of working hard and
succeeding. what's wrong with that?
-*-
charles
Mike Fester
>>And then jon...@ur.msstate.edu quoth
>>>In article <93096.184...@uicvm.uic.edu> <U13...@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>>>>Will Clark should be hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball.
>>original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
>>is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
>>thing on them.
>
>Well, as far as I can tell, he's a racist sob.
How can you tell this? All those "media quotes"? Or simply incredible insight
on your part?
>>Will Clark is a great person. He donates large portions of his paycheck to
>>charitable organizations, never hesitates to make himself available. He is
>
>Lots of ballplayers, including Rickey Henderson, do this.
Hmm. Any data to back that up? Now DAVE Henderson and the former A, Dave Stewart
were quite active in that area here in the Bay Area, establishing various
community efforts, etc.
Mike
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Chuq Von Rospach
>Will Clark should be hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball.
Some days you read postings that say a lot more about the poster than the
subject being discussed.
Case in point.
--
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= ch...@apple.com
Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms =+= GEnie: MAC.BIGOT =+= ALink:CHUQ
Minor League fans: minors-...@medraut.apple.com (San Jose Giants: A/1/9)
San Francisco Giants fans: giants-...@medraut.apple.com (The Stick?NOT!)
San Jose Sharks fans: sharks-...@medraut.apple.com (New seat: 127/TBD)
wayne kao
: I hate Will "The Pill" Clark. Ever since the day in St. Louis two summers
: ago, when my brother and I were collecting autographs at Busch. "Pill" got
: there a good *8* hours before the game, and there was a crowd of oh about
: five people there. He completely refused to sign anything. To this day I
: cannot bring myself to cheer for Will because he couldn't take two minutes
: out of his precious time to give a fan a THRILL.
Those of us who've been following the Giants know that Clark hasn't
exactly had a lot of fun in St. Louis. ie. Loosing in the NL
playoffs in 1987 and getting hit from behind by Mr. Class, Ozzie Smith.
Also, I understood that they do have policies regarding signing autographs.
Even though there might only have been five people asking, that could
multiply as soon as people see him signing. So he can stay there and
have five people think that he's a jerk or have to refuse about 20
who will think he's a even bigger jerk if he signed for others
and not them. And also, he has often commented on how fan do
shove a huge amount of cards expecting him to sign for profit
purposes, but that's another issue. Anyway, lay off of the Thrill
just because he wouldn't sign autographs. Take a picture or something.
I do..
--
Wayne Kao A.K.A. Wahoo 'The Next Great Jedi Knight'
(Just another water molecule in the toilet bowl of life)
wk...@ucrengr.ucr.edu University of California, Riverside
"Am I the only heterosexual male on earth who doesn't find the
Barbi Twins attractive?"
David Marc Nieporent
>In article <1993Apr9.0...@Princeton.EDU> niep...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>} In article <1993Apr08.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu> jp...@cymbal.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee) writes:
>} >Now, I didn't see the original post, if there was one. Maybe that was the
>} >original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
>} >is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
>} >thing on them.
>} Well, as far as I can tell, he's a racist sob.
>why is that?
Ask Jeffrey Leonard and Kevin Mitchell.
>} >Will Clark is a great person. He donates large portions of his paycheck to
>} >charitable organizations, never hesitates to make himself available. He is
>} Lots of ballplayers, including Rickey Henderson, do this.
>does this diminish Clark's contributions?
No, but it shows he isn't any better a role model because of this than
anyone else, including the oft-bashed Rickey.
>} As if this didn't have to do with taxes, anyway.
>why do people always say this? tax deductions mean that while he might
>contribute $1 million it will cost him less than that out of his pocket.
>but certainly he doesn't make any money from this. or do you think he
>is in a tax bracket above 100%?
>also, does his tax deductibility diminish the benefit to the charity?
Nope.
>} >a great role model for young kids. I see his intensity, and I want to
>} >emulate that in everything I do. I have great respect for Will Clark.
>} I don't think ANY baseball player, or other athlete, is a good role model
>} for kids. How about people doing things for society? Now, this isn't a
>} bashing of baseball; I like it an awful lot. But I don't deify it.
>} It's a game. It's fun. It's an escape from the world. It's
>} entertainment, which everyone needs. But it's not exactly missionary
>} work in third world countries or teaching in inner cities or discovering
>} a cure for AIDS. *Those* are great role models for kids.
>i think some baseball players *are* good role models--often just not the ones
>kids look up to. many players exemplify the ideal of working hard and
>succeeding. what's wrong with that?
Working hard and succeeding at WHAT? A sport. A game. Not reality.
Charles M Kozierok
} In article <1q6ufd...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> c...@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
} >In article <1993Apr9.0...@Princeton.EDU> niep...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
} >} In article <1993Apr08.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu> jp...@cymbal.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee) writes:
}
} >} >Now, I didn't see the original post, if there was one. Maybe that was the
} >} >original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
} >} >is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
} >} >thing on them.
}
} >} Well, as far as I can tell, he's a racist sob.
}
} >why is that?
}
} Ask Jeffrey Leonard and Kevin Mitchell.
thanks for the overwhelming demonstration of evidence.
in other words--i should just take your/their word for it?
based on these criteria (a poster calling someone a name and backing
it up with references to two players who may or may not agree) you
should have no trouble thinking Rickey Henderson is an arrogant jerk, too.
} [...]
} >} >a great role model for young kids. I see his intensity, and I want to
} >} >emulate that in everything I do. I have great respect for Will Clark.
}
} >} I don't think ANY baseball player, or other athlete, is a good role model
} >} for kids. How about people doing things for society? Now, this isn't a
} >} bashing of baseball; I like it an awful lot. But I don't deify it.
} >} It's a game. It's fun. It's an escape from the world. It's
} >} entertainment, which everyone needs. But it's not exactly missionary
} >} work in third world countries or teaching in inner cities or discovering
} >} a cure for AIDS. *Those* are great role models for kids.
}
} >i think some baseball players *are* good role models--often just not the ones
} >kids look up to. many players exemplify the ideal of working hard and
} >succeeding. what's wrong with that?
}
} Working hard and succeeding at WHAT? A sport. A game. Not reality.
please.
this "it's just a game, not reality" business is growing quite tiresome.
sports *is* reality. it is important to millions of people. when you
pick up a daily newspaper, "Sports" is one of the 3 or 4 sections. it
is part of our society, and no less "reality" than hundreds of other
activities.
hard work and success *are* important attributes for children to emulate.
they are important in and of itself, regardless of how you personally
feel about the field to which they are applied. as an example, my brother-
in-law worked extremely hard and took many risks to become a
professional dancer. he is now with the Boston Ballet's second
company, which is a significant achievement. now how is that any more
"reality" than baseball? how is becoming a master C programmer any
more "reality"?
finally, if baseball is just "a sport, a game, not reality", why do
so many people spend so much time and energy on it? why do you personally
post hundreds of articles to this newsgroup?
-*-
charles
Tom Schroeder
> ago, when my brother and I were collecting autographs at Busch. "Pill" got
> there a good *8* hours before the game, and there was a crowd of oh about
> five people there. He completely refused to sign anything. To this day I
> cannot bring myself to cheer for Will because he couldn't take two minutes
> out of his precious time to give a fan a THRILL.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | ilin...@slate.mines.colorado.edu | "I wish I had something cute to say.
> | |..But I can't think of a &%#*@
> | Ian Lindsay | thing!" -Punisher #42
I had NO problem getting his autograph a few years ago OUT IN THE PARKING
LOT AFTER THE GAME. He has stated publicly that he does not like to give
autographs or deal with anything else but the game at hand, when he is on
the field, EVEN during pre-game. He does not seem to have any problem at all
signing in the parking lot or during Spring Training. The other thing to
consider here, is that Will Clark and the fans and players of the St.Louis
Cardinals have not exactly been chummy, going back to the cheap shot his
Ozzie-ness tried to give him 5 years ago (Oquendo and Clark got into a
scuffle when Clark came into second too hard, and Smith tried to hit him when
his back was turned, very cheap).
===============================================================================
GO GIANTS IN '93!! Tom Schroeder
t...@autodesk.com
Donald P Boell
>>why is that?
>Ask Jeffrey Leonard and Kevin Mitchell.
Why is it that when a white man gets on a black man's case for dogging it
or for incessant whinning that the white man is always called a racist?
I loved watching Hack-man and Mitch hit the snot out of the ball, but when
each became complacent, began dogging it, began whinning...I got pretty
sick of it. Clark has an immense competitive spirit, always gives 100%
and does not tolerate those who don't.
Instead of muddying the waters with cries of 'racist' why don't we give
it a rest. This is the same kind of shit that took place during the
Thomas hearings. How anyone could forget that Hill was also black is a
mystery to me, yet the cry of 'racist' was loud and clear.
Marge Shott is a racist. IMO Will Clark is just a talented guy who does
not like slackers.
Don Boell
Edward [Ted] Fischer
>
>Marge Shott is a racist. IMO Will Clark is just a talented guy who does
>not like slackers.
black
IMHO, you have no clue whether or not Clark is racist. Do you know
him personally? *ALL* of your information is second-hand. I wouldn't
necessarily take the word of Mitchell and Leonard, but it should at
least raise doubts.
In any case, who cares? That's a problem for the Giants management to
deal with. It's not my direct concern. If Clark truly is racist, the
Giants will pay for it in the end. (In today's baseball world, you
aren't going to be able to compete very well without at least *some*
black players on the team.)
Cheers,
-Valentine
Mike Fester
>In article <1q6ufd...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> c...@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr9.0...@Princeton.EDU> niep...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>>} In article <1993Apr08.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu> jp...@cymbal.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee) writes:
>
>>} >Now, I didn't see the original post, if there was one. Maybe that was the
>>} >original post. Either way, I would like somebody to tell me why Will Clark
>>} >is perceived to be such a horrible human being that you would wish such a
>>} >thing on them.
>
>>} Well, as far as I can tell, he's a racist sob.
>
>>why is that?
>
>Ask Jeffrey Leonard and Kevin Mitchell.
Hmm. When Jeffery Leonard returned to the Bay Area, he was asked about his
relationship with Will Clark. He answered it was fine. When asked if there
were any problems in the clubhouse, he laughed and said, "No, if I'd had any
problems with Will, I'd've broken him in half like a matchstick."
As for Mitchell, no doubt Clark was simply jealous of Mitchell's rigorous
work routine, that which led him to the gloried heights he's enjoyed since
leaving SF.
Once again, iron-clad innuendo and hand-waving, Mr Neiporent. Very weak.
Mike Fester
>In article <420...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> bo...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>>
>>Marge Shott is a racist. IMO Will Clark is just a talented guy who does
>>not like slackers.
> ^^^
> black
>
>IMHO, you have no clue whether or not Clark is racist. Do you know
>him personally? *ALL* of your information is second-hand. I wouldn't
>necessarily take the word of Mitchell and Leonard, but it should at
>least raise doubts.
Out of curiousity, why haven't you pointed this same thing out to Mr Neiporent,
who seems to be making the (unsubstantiated) accusation against Will Clark? As
for "taking the word" of those two, Leonard has repeatedly said he had no
problems with Will, and Mitchell refused to comment.
Edward [Ted] Fischer
>
>Out of curiousity, why haven't you pointed this same thing out to Mr
>Neiporent, who seems to be making the (unsubstantiated) accusation
>against Will Clark? As for "taking the word" of those two, Leonard has
>repeatedly said he had no problems with Will, and Mitchell refused to
>comment.
Mike, you again prove your utter inability to read plain english.
Find somebody who *is* literate, and have them explain my *full* post
to you.
I am not saying Will Clark is a racist.
I am not saying Will Clark is *not* a racist.
I am saying that I do not know, and *you* do not know.
I am saying that I do not care, and consider it the Giants' concern.
David Nieporent understood my post and replied in private e-mail. You
should, perhaps, take reading lessons from him.
-Valentine
Kelly J Kiehm
address on the newsgroup or email it to me? Thanks in advance.
Kelly
Mike Fester
>In article <1993Apr19....@island.COM> fes...@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>
>>Out of curiousity, why haven't you pointed this same thing out to Mr
>>Neiporent, who seems to be making the (unsubstantiated) accusation
>>against Will Clark? As for "taking the word" of those two, Leonard has
>>repeatedly said he had no problems with Will, and Mitchell refused to
>>comment.
>
>Mike, you again prove your utter inability to read plain english.
It is ironic that in any post that criticizes langauge ability, the critic
invariably makes a mistake himself ("english" is generally written "English".)
>Find somebody who *is* literate, and have them explain my *full* post
>to you.
>
>I am not saying Will Clark is a racist.
>I am not saying Will Clark is *not* a racist.
>I am saying that I do not know, and *you* do not know.
>I am saying that I do not care, and consider it the Giants' concern.
Oddly, I do not see that I have contested any of that. Perhaps you, with
assuredly greater "english" ability can explain, in tiny words that I might
grasp their meaning, precisely WHERE I infer that you have said any of those
things?
>David Nieporent understood my post and replied in private e-mail. You
>should, perhaps, take reading lessons from him.
No Mr Fisher, you should place the burden of proof on the one who makes the
allegation in the first place. You do not. Perhaps you might explain why that
is? As for the email route, Mr Fisher, you might have tried that yourself.
Mike
K. Mitchell Bose
>In article <1993Apr19....@cs.cornell.edu> ted...@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>Mike, you again prove your utter inability to read plain english.
>
>It is ironic that in any post that criticizes langauge ability, the critic
>invariably makes a mistake himself ("english" is generally written "English".)
>
--
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kb...@carina.unm.edu
Back! Because YOU demanded it! The upbeat, Pre-AntiWoofing KMB! :):):):):):)
A singles. B grounds into a fielder's choice. C singles B over to third. D
scores B with a sac fly. _Now_ do you see why RBIs are misleading???
Donald P Boell
>>Marge Shott is a racist. IMO Will Clark is just a talented guy who does
>>not like slackers.
> ^^^
> black
>
>IMHO, you have no clue whether or not Clark is racist. Do you know
>him personally? *ALL* of your information is second-hand. I wouldn't
>necessarily take the word of Mitchell and Leonard, but it should at
>least raise doubts.
Oh I see, guilty until proven innocent. Uh-huh. I'm sorry, but this isn't
the 50s and this isn't a witch hunt for reds. Can I assume, then, that you
know Leonard and Mitchell personally since you seem to prefer their 2nd hand
news?
RVES...@vma.cc.nd.edu
In article <1r4g55...@lynx.unm.edu>, kb...@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose)
says:
>
>In article <1993Apr20.2...@island.COM> fes...@island.COM (Mike Fester)
>writes:
>>In article <1993Apr19....@cs.cornell.edu> ted...@cs.cornell.edu
>(Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>>Mike, you again prove your utter inability to read plain english.
>>
>>It is ironic that in any post that criticizes langauge ability, the critic
>>invariably makes a mistake himself ("english" is generally written
>"English".)
>>
>maybe he studied under bob vesterman...
>
nice ellipsis, kurt, but where's the period?
i guess i should say something about baseball. ty cobb's lifetime
batting average is less than .002 away from 1/e.
bob vesterman.
hooke...@gmail.com
vivapa...@aol.com
> Will Clark should be hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball.
>
> Phil
And Hillary? :-D
zpo...@gmail.com
> Lol so since he is a good. All player and plays heard means he can't be an asshole? Yeah ok, I have an experience with that tool that would say otherwise
YOU'RE TALKING TO SOMEONE FROM 22 YEARS AGO.
