I hate trades like this...
Gregg Pearlman
Erik Simpson wrote:
>
> I believe there's also a PTBNL involved, and Jason Schmidt's name is
> coming up a lot. If that turns out to be accurate, this could end up
> being a huge, huge trade for the Pirates.
>
Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
played in the same league as the acquiring team during that season. The
logic, such as it is: say Schmidt had an idea that he might be the
PTBNL; when pitching in a game against the Pirates, he thinks, "Screw
the Braves; they're trading me to Pittsburgh anyway, so I may as well
help my team-to-be-named-later by losing to them."
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
and a player to be named later.
I grant you that I know nothing of the players the Braves dumped.
Gregg
David Pease
In article <3224E3...@leland.stanford.edu>,
Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
>Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
>and a player to be named later.
Oooooh.
That's 1B Ron Wright, as in "one of the top five power prospects in
the minors right now" Ron Wright. He's looking like a certified
stud right now; big power and he's only 20. No Andruw Jones, but
then again, who not named Vladimir Guerrero is?
I don't know anything about Pointer. Anyone have an opinion on him?
I guess Cam Bonifay didn't like what anyone else was offering him.
You hate to give up a player like Neagle--no question--but the Bucs
aren't exactly going to be competitive anytime soon, seeing as their
best position players right now are probably Jeff King (at 2B) and
Merced/Martin.
Atlanta may have the strongest staff I've ever seen right now.
Did the Braves of previous years match up to Maddux-Smoltz-Glavine-
Neagle-Avery this season? I doubt it; Maddux has taken a hit,
but Smoltz, Glavine, and Neagle are probably all in the top 10
pitchers in the NL.
Steve Avery is certainly going to be throwing somewhere else next
season, methinks.
Thank you for your time
dp
--
dave pease, Armchair Analyst dpe...@qualcomm.com
"Run amuck upon the lawn / the sun's come up /
and it's just dawned / on me." -- Michael Penn
Eric Roush
In article <502pf4$k...@samwise.qualcomm.com>, dpe...@qualcomm.com (David
Pease) wrote:
> In article <3224E3...@leland.stanford.edu>,
> Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
> >Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
> >and a player to be named later.
>
> Oooooh.
>
> That's 1B Ron Wright, as in "one of the top five power prospects in
> the minors right now" Ron Wright. He's looking like a certified
> stud right now; big power and he's only 20. No Andruw Jones, but
> then again, who not named Vladimir Guerrero is?
Actually, I don't think Guerrero is either. Wright has amazing power
and very good plate discipline...of course Schuerholz had to get
rid of him.
> I don't know anything about Pointer. Anyone have an opinion on him?
Eugene (short season), hitting around .240, but with double-digit dingers
and more than one walk/10 AB...don't know his age, but since he
appears to have plate discipline, away he goes!
No telling whom the PTBNL will be either, but I don't really want
to know.
> I guess Cam Bonifay didn't like what anyone else was offering him.
> You hate to give up a player like Neagle--no question--but the Bucs
> aren't exactly going to be competitive anytime soon, seeing as their
> best position players right now are probably Jeff King (at 2B) and
> Merced/Martin.
>
> Atlanta may have the strongest staff I've ever seen right now.
> Did the Braves of previous years match up to Maddux-Smoltz-Glavine-
> Neagle-Avery this season? I doubt it; Maddux has taken a hit,
> but Smoltz, Glavine, and Neagle are probably all in the top 10
> pitchers in the NL.
>
> Steve Avery is certainly going to be throwing somewhere else next
> season, methinks.
No doubt about it. Does anyone know how long Neagle is signed for?
And I'd say that Maddux is still one of the top 10 pitchers in the
NL...he's just lost junior godhood status this year. Avery's still on
the DL, though, so pitcher #5 is more likely Terrell Wade...who
could be the PTBNL. (I figure the PTBNL is probably on the 40-man
roster as we speak, and maybe even on the 24-man roster, otherwise
they would have named him.)
The Charlotte Pirates of 2000 could be a pretty impressive team,
though. Wright, Chad Hermansen, Freddie Garcia will make up
3/4th of a powerful infield.
--
Eric Roush Phil Niekro for the HOF!
edr...@acpub.duke.edu Any sufficiently advanced magic
also coa...@aol.com is indistuingishable from technology.
------------------------------------------------------
Maddux/Glavine in 1996! It's Time for a Change-Up!
William Constantine Tsimpris
Gregg Pearlman (gre...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
: ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
: Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
: and a player to be named later.
: I grant you that I know nothing of the players the Braves dumped.
: Gregg
Oh yes, in the mold of the great Bielecki/Berryhill-Turkey/Yorkis
Perez swap of 1991.
--
Salutations,
BASIL T
*****************************************
"The one constant is baseball."
--James Earl Jones, "Field of Dreams"
"There are no constants in baseball."
--Bill James, 1982 "Baseball Abstract"
*****************************************
Erik Simpson
: >
: >ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
: >Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
: >and a player to be named later.
: Ron Wright is a 1B, not a pitcher. He is considered by some to be the
: 2nd-best prospect in the organization, behind Andruw Jones. (Is Andruw
: still a prospect?) Wright is 20, and was at AA Greenville.
That is very true but a little misleading, as God himself would only edge
Jones by a nose as a prospect. Wright would be the best prospect in
most organizations. He has HUGE power and is drawing oodles of walks
this year.
Painter played some good ball in limited A-level action last year, and
he's 20. That's all I know; I would love more information.
I believe there's also a PTBNL involved, and Jason Schmidt's name is
coming up a lot. If that turns out to be accurate, this could end up
being a huge, huge trade for the Pirates.
Erik
: --
: Mark Mitchell Georgia Tech mark.m...@gtri.gatech.edu
: "Shut up, brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!"
Erik Simpson
Eric Roush (edr...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
: In article <502pf4$k...@samwise.qualcomm.com>, dpe...@qualcomm.com (David
: Pease) wrote:
: > In article <3224E3...@leland.stanford.edu>,
: > Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
: > >ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
: > >Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
: > >and a player to be named later.
: >
: > Oooooh.
: >
: > That's 1B Ron Wright, as in "one of the top five power prospects in
: > the minors right now" Ron Wright. He's looking like a certified
: > stud right now; big power and he's only 20. No Andruw Jones, but
: > then again, who not named Vladimir Guerrero is?
: Actually, I don't think Guerrero is either. Wright has amazing power
: and very good plate discipline...of course Schuerholz had to get
: rid of him.
Guerrero has been walking a ton, too, hasn't he? I think one has to have
Wright as the third of that amazing threesome.
: > I don't know anything about Pointer. Anyone have an opinion on him?
: Eugene (short season), hitting around .240, but with double-digit dingers
: and more than one walk/10 AB...don't know his age, but since he
: appears to have plate discipline, away he goes!
Pointer trivia: he was taken with the 2nd-round pick the Braves got from
the Red Sox for the signing of Otis Nixon.
: No telling whom the PTBNL will be either, but I don't really want
: to know.
Speculation is siding with Schmidt--he's on the DL and can't be traded,
so PTBNL makes loads of sense. If it is, this looks like a spectacular
move for the Pirates. If Neagle had to go, I can't see how they could
have done better.
Unless the PTBNL is Jones. :)
Erik
R Weems Jr
Erik Simpson (esim...@dept.english.upenn.edu) wrote:
: Eric Roush (edr...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
: : In article <502pf4$k...@samwise.qualcomm.com>, dpe...@qualcomm.com (David
: move for the Pirates. If Neagle had to go, I can't see how they could
: have done better.
: Unless the PTBNL is Jones. :)
I hope Schuerholz doesnt read this ng- you may have given him an idea.
Gregg Rosenberg
In article <502s99$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Erik Simpson <esim...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote:
>Mark A. Mitchell (mmit...@seal.gtri.gatech.edu) wrote:
>
>: Ron Wright is a 1B, not a pitcher. He is considered by some to be the
>: 2nd-best prospect in the organization, behind Andruw Jones. (Is Andruw
>: still a prospect?) Wright is 20, and was at AA Greenville.
>
>That is very true but a little misleading, as God himself would only edge
>Jones by a nose as a prospect. Wright would be the best prospect in
>most organizations. He has HUGE power and is drawing oodles of walks
>this year.
In my opinion, the only organizations where you could give a really good
argument that he wasn't the best prospect are Atlanta and Montreal.
Everywhere else he's either clearly the best, or it's a toss-up between
him and someone else. I think there are about 7 guys you could throw
in a bag as the 3-10th best prospects in all of baseball behind Jones
and Vlad, and Wright is one of them.
If Schmidt is the PTBNL, this is a huge loss for the Braves, and a
steal for the Pirates.
--Gregg
Eric Roush
In article <502u2d$c...@netnews.upenn.edu>, esim...@dept.english.upenn.edu
(Erik Simpson) wrote:
> Eric Roush (edr...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
> : In article <502pf4$k...@samwise.qualcomm.com>, dpe...@qualcomm.com (David
> : Pease) wrote:
> : > That's 1B Ron Wright, as in "one of the top five power prospects in
> : > the minors right now" Ron Wright. He's looking like a certified
> : > stud right now; big power and he's only 20. No Andruw Jones, but
> : > then again, who not named Vladimir Guerrero is?
>
> : Actually, I don't think Guerrero is either. Wright has amazing power
> : and very good plate discipline...of course Schuerholz had to get
> : rid of him.
>
> Guerrero has been walking a ton, too, hasn't he? I think one has to have
> Wright as the third of that amazing threesome.
Well yes, but Guerrero is a year older than Jones and hasn't shown
Wright's raw power yet. If I were to rank them, Jones is amazing,
while Wright and Guerrero are just very good prospects.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Mark A. Mitchell
In article <3224E3...@leland.stanford.edu>,
Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
>Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
>and a player to be named later.
Ron Wright is a 1B, not a pitcher. He is considered by some to be the
2nd-best prospect in the organization, behind Andruw Jones. (Is Andruw
still a prospect?) Wright is 20, and was at AA Greenville.
--
Mark A. Mitchell
In article <edroush-2808...@kwatra2.mc.duke.edu>,
Eric Roush <edr...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>
>No doubt about it. Does anyone know how long Neagle is signed for?
Through next season at $3M/year. With Avery and Smoltz free agents
at the end of the year, that's some consolation. Chances look
pretty fair that Steve Avery has pitched his last game as a Brave.
Mark A. Mitchell
In article <503d4q$s...@news.Hawaii.Edu>,
Glenn A Tanner <tan...@Hawaii.Edu> wrote:
>
>What the hell are you doing here?!
Sorry, I got lost on the way to the Husker bash.
>I have to figure that one of the reasons the Braves made this trade is
>because Neagle's $3M next year is going to be a lot less than either
>Smoltz or Avery is going to go for in the FA market.
Not bad figuring, considering Avery is making $4.6M *this* year.
>Take a look at how
>much Kent Mercker got last year. Anyone think Scherholtz hasn't been
>having discussions with the agents for Smoltz and Avery and found their
>asking prices to be be pretty steep?
I agree. (I think he's also a little peeved at Avery and his agent for
their arbitration win.) From Braves' management point-of-view, they
saved themselves some significant cash next year and they only have
to worry about signing Smoltz in the offseason. They may also figure
they can get some decent young talent for Justice in the off-season.
(Any opinions on what the Braves can get in trade for Justice?
Ron Wright, maybe? :-)
Amit Lal
In article <3224C6...@leland.stanford.edu>, Gregg Pearlman
<gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Erik Simpson wrote:
> >
> > I believe there's also a PTBNL involved, and Jason Schmidt's name is
> > coming up a lot. If that turns out to be accurate, this could end up
> > being a huge, huge trade for the Pirates.
> >
> Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
> be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
> played in the same league as the acquiring team during that season. The
> logic, such as it is: say Schmidt had an idea that he might be the
> PTBNL; when pitching in a game against the Pirates, he thinks, "Screw
> the Braves; they're trading me to Pittsburgh anyway, so I may as well
> help my team-to-be-named-later by losing to them."
>
> Gregg
Actually, I think Jason Schmidt will be the Player To
Be Named Later. He is currently on the DL/Injury Rehab,
so I think the rule you mentioned above may not apply.
When he comes off the DL, he'll probably go to the
Pirates.
- Amit Lal
Colin T. William
On 28 Aug 1996, David Pease wrote:
> Atlanta may have the strongest staff I've ever seen right now.
> Did the Braves of previous years match up to Maddux-Smoltz-Glavine-
> Neagle-Avery this season? I doubt it; Maddux has taken a hit,
> but Smoltz, Glavine, and Neagle are probably all in the top 10
> pitchers in the NL.
Actually, Maddux has probably pitched as well as or better than any of
them; he has the best ERA on his own staff, but has had no run support
whatsoever. None at all. Not quite as tough a year as Kevin Brown has
had in the department, but it's up there.
Colin
Colin T. William
On 29 Aug 1996, Richard Tung wrote:
> Most everybody has been saying that the Braves were stupid to trade away a
> top offensive prospect for a player in a position where they are already
> loaded. However, this is assuming that Smoltz will be resigned. With
> this trade, even if Smoltz isn't resigned, they will still have
> Maddux/Glavine/Neagle-- still the best rotation in baseball. Plus extra
> money that went to Smoltz and Avery that could be spent on buying a star
> offensive FA.
However, Smoltz has expressed a desire to stay in Atlanta, where he has
his home and has been for a long time; his agents work well with
Schuerholz, and it is hard to imagine the Braves letting him go if he
wins the CY this year.
Colin
Gregg Rosenberg
On 28 Aug 1996, David Pease wrote:
>
> Atlanta may have the strongest staff I've ever seen right now.
> Did the Braves of previous years match up to Maddux-Smoltz-Glavine-
> Neagle-Avery this season?
I think the '93 version of Maddux-Smoltz-Glavine-Avery with Pete Smith
was as good, or at least pretty close.
--Gregg
Richard Tung
Most everybody has been saying that the Braves were stupid to trade away a
top offensive prospect for a player in a position where they are already
loaded. However, this is assuming that Smoltz will be resigned. With
this trade, even if Smoltz isn't resigned, they will still have
Maddux/Glavine/Neagle-- still the best rotation in baseball. Plus extra
money that went to Smoltz and Avery that could be spent on buying a star
offensive FA.
Of course, if this happens, the Braves will have some fun after 1997
(Neagle, and I believe Glavine, maybe Maddux? are FA's.
Gregg Pearlman
Amit Lal wrote:
>
> In article <3224C6...@leland.stanford.edu>, Gregg Pearlman
> <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> > Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
> > be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
> > played in the same league as the acquiring team during that season. The
> > logic, such as it is: say Schmidt had an idea that he might be the
> > PTBNL; when pitching in a game against the Pirates, he thinks, "Screw
> > the Braves; they're trading me to Pittsburgh anyway, so I may as well
> > help my team-to-be-named-later by losing to them."
> >
> Be Named Later. He is currently on the DL/Injury Rehab,
> so I think the rule you mentioned above may not apply.
> When he comes off the DL, he'll probably go to the
> Pirates.
If so, I'll be surprised. My source on the above info was a major league
assistant GM whose job it was to know those rules. In other words, I
didn't read it in the Blue Book, or some other rulebook, but I'm pretty
sure I'm right -- if, as I said, the rules haven't changed in five
years. The rule would apply because Schmidt has appeared with the Braves
during the 1996 season. If anybody has the definitive poop on this,
please lemme know.
(Incidentally, I'm happy to offer my notes on transaction terms and what
they mean to anybody who's interested -- as long as I'm not violating a
copyright, and I don't see why I would be. My "source" was Ralph Nelson
in 1990 for an article that appeared in 1991. I know I'm no expert,
because I keep having to refer back to the notes (which are more
interesting for the article). Forgive me, by the way, if I've brought
this up here before. I know I've mentioned it in the Giants newsgroup.)
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
Amit Lal wrote:
>
> In article <3224C6...@leland.stanford.edu>, Gregg Pearlman
> <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> > Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
> > be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
> > played in the same league as the acquiring team during that season.
Then again, I'm thinking that since waivers were involved, maybe the
PTBNL transaction would technically be a separate deal, thus bypassing
the above restriction. Maybe. Anybody?
Gregg
Chris Johnston
Gregg Pearlman (gre...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
> Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
> be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
> logic, such as it is: say Schmidt had an idea that he might be the
> PTBNL; when pitching in a game against the Pirates, he thinks, "Screw
> the Braves; they're trading me to Pittsburgh anyway, so I may as well
> help my team-to-be-named-later by losing to them."
Well, you're wrong there. Moises Alou was the PTBNL when Montreal
traded Zane Smith to Pittsburgh in 1990, even though Alou had played for
the Pirates that year. Granted, he only had 5 AB, but he still played for
the Pirates.
Alou was recalled by Pittsburgh on July 26, 1990. Returned to AAA
on July 29. The Smith trade happened on August 8. Alou was named as the
PTBNL on August 16.
******************************************************************************
Chris Johnston * "Nobody's born evil. Except
cjoh...@chat.carleton.ca * maybe the Antichrist"
* - Scott Thompson
if all else fails: bw...@freenet.carleton.ca *
******************************************************************************
Glenn A Tanner
In article <502uvs$f...@siberia.gtri.gatech.edu>,
Mark A. Mitchell <mmit...@seal.gtri.gatech.edu> wrote:
What the hell are you doing here?!
>In article <edroush-2808...@kwatra2.mc.duke.edu>,
>Eric Roush <edr...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>>
>>No doubt about it. Does anyone know how long Neagle is signed for?
>
>Through next season at $3M/year. With Avery and Smoltz free agents
>at the end of the year, that's some consolation. Chances look
>pretty fair that Steve Avery has pitched his last game as a Brave.
I have to figure that one of the reasons the Braves made this trade is
because Neagle's $3M next year is going to be a lot less than either
Smoltz or Avery is going to go for in the FA market. Take a look at how
much Kent Mercker got last year. Anyone think Scherholtz hasn't been
having discussions with the agents for Smoltz and Avery and found their
asking prices to be be pretty steep?
GT
Gregg Pearlman
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Gregg Pearlman (gre...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
> > Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
> > be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
> > played in the same league as the acquiring team during that season. The
> > logic, such as it is: say Schmidt had an idea that he might be the
> > PTBNL; when pitching in a game against the Pirates, he thinks, "Screw
> > the Braves; they're trading me to Pittsburgh anyway, so I may as well
> > help my team-to-be-named-later by losing to them."
>
> Well, you're wrong there. Moises Alou was the PTBNL when Montreal
> traded Zane Smith to Pittsburgh in 1990, even though Alou had played for
> the Pirates that year. Granted, he only had 5 AB, but he still played for
> the Pirates.
>
> Alou was recalled by Pittsburgh on July 26, 1990. Returned to AAA
> on July 29. The Smith trade happened on August 8. Alou was named as the
> PTBNL on August 16.
Hmm. Didn't know that; thought he changed teams at the same time as
Smith, but obviously I'm wrong.
Now, the guy who told me about the PTBNL thing told me in November of
1990. What I don't remember is whether or not the restriction was a new
thing or what -- I mean, the rule might have been adopted for the 1991
season. Are there any other recent examples of PTBNLs having played on
the trading team earlier in the season?
And I sure would like to know what the rule actually is.
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Gregg Pearlman (gre...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
> > Unless the rules have changed in the last five years, Schmidt couldn't
> > be the player to be named later. The PTBNL can't be a player who has
> > played in the same league as the acquiring team during that season. The
> > logic, such as it is: say Schmidt had an idea that he might be the
> > PTBNL; when pitching in a game against the Pirates, he thinks, "Screw
> > the Braves; they're trading me to Pittsburgh anyway, so I may as well
> > help my team-to-be-named-later by losing to them."
>
> Well, you're wrong there. Moises Alou was the PTBNL when Montreal
> traded Zane Smith to Pittsburgh in 1990, even though Alou had played for
> the Pirates that year. Granted, he only had 5 AB, but he still played for
> the Pirates.
>
> Alou was recalled by Pittsburgh on July 26, 1990. Returned to AAA
> on July 29. The Smith trade happened on August 8. Alou was named as the
> PTBNL on August 16.
Well, I guess this shows what *I* know. ESPNet SportsZone reports that
Schmidt has indeed been activated and traded to the Pirates. Maybe, if
there really is that PTBNL rule, it can be circumvented through waivers,
which is how you'd have to make a trade anyway right now, right?
Gregg
Jeff Hildebrand
In article <322715...@leland.stanford.edu>,
Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Are there any other recent examples of PTBNLs having played on
>the trading team earlier in the season?
Well Jason Schmidt now qualifies since he's officially been
announced as the PTBNL in the Neagle trade. What a steal for the Pirates.
-Jeff
--
Jeff Hildebrand, The Shaggy TA <*> hild...@math.wisc.edu
"Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things
that happened to us come because we actually deserve them?"
-Marcus Cole, Babylon 5, "A Late Delivery From Avalon"
Keith Law
1) The Braves have a '97 option on Glavine. If they exercise it, all 3
will be FAs after next season.
2) What exactly do you expect the Braves to do with all that money they
might save by not signing Smoltz? Assuming their lineup includes
c Lopez
1b McGriff
ss/3b Jones
of Grissom, Klesko, A. Jones
What exactly do you think they'll do? Yes, they need a real leadoff
hitter, but Cox/Schuerholz seem convinced that Grissom is it; the only
positions where they could upgrade their offense are 2b and whichever of
(3b, ss) Chipper doesn't play. And there are no marquee free agents at
any of those positions this winter. So unless JS is willing to empty the
prospect barrel a little further, I doubt he'll acquire any serious help
at those positions.
--
Keith Law } Commissioner, EARL (http://www.parthenon.com/klaw/) &
YARL
Sr. Associate } Owner, Law Norders and Brookline Dodgers
The Parthenon } "Good fortune happy lucky big time for you and family."
Group } - Bill MacNeil, NewsRadio
Billy
Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> writes:
>ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
>Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
>I grant you that I know nothing of the players the Braves dumped.
baseman (not a pitcher) with tons of power potential; the PTBNL
is Jason Schmidt, and I don't know anything about Painter. The
Pirates did well for their future on this one. It's not as one-
sided as it looks.
Billy
Gregg Pearlman
Jeff Hildebrand wrote:
>
> In article <322715...@leland.stanford.edu>,
> Gregg Pearlman <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> >Are there any other recent examples of PTBNLs having played on
> >the trading team earlier in the season?
>
> Well Jason Schmidt now qualifies since he's officially been
> announced as the PTBNL in the Neagle trade. What a steal for the Pirates.
>
the PTBNL in the practical sense -- went to the Pirates on waivers,
according to the transactions column. This is one way of circumventing
the restriction (which I'm pretty sure exists) on PTBNLs having played
during that season in the same league as the team to whom they've been
traded to.
The Giants and Pirates did something similar in '87 when Rick Reuschel
came to San Francisco. A few days later, Jim Gott went to the Pirates --
technically in a separate deal, but a PTBNL "in the practical sense."
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
Jeff Joseph wrote:
>
> In article <3224E3...@leland.stanford.edu>, Gregg Pearlman
> <gre...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> >ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
> >Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
> >and a player to be named later.
>
> >I grant you that I know nothing of the players the Braves dumped.
>
> up on the highly awaited D.J. Boston experiment :)
Not to mention D.J. Dozier.
It's been pointed out to me several times that Ron Wright is a first
baseman. Let me just say that when I posted the original (i.e., above)
message, it was ESPNet that originally called him a pitcher, so it's all
*their* fault.
Gregg
Jeff Joseph
>ESPNet SportsZone announces that the Pirates have traded pitcher Denny
>Neagle to the Braves for outfielder Corey Painter, pitcher Ron Wright
>and a player to be named later.
>I grant you that I know nothing of the players the Braves dumped.
Well I guess by picking up *first baseman* Ron Wright, they have given
up on the highly awaited D.J. Boston experiment :)
While Wright is probably the best power prospect in the NL not named
Jones or Guerrero, it's a shame that Neagle - one of the best starters
in the game - has to be sacrificed because of Cam Bonifay's delusion
that free agent signings like Mike Kingery and Charlie Hayes would
advance the team up the evolutionary ladder.
Wright is a great player to get but I'm getting the feeling the Bucs are
in deep turmoil. Ron Sauer may not be the only guy fleeing.
--------*-----------------*-------------*----------*----------
Jeff Joseph Live from the Centre of the
e-mail:jjo...@interlog.com Universe (or so they claim.)
"They needed a new coat of paint. They got spackle" - Charlie
Pallilo (ESPN radio) on the signing of Tracy Murray by the
Washington Wizards.
--------*------------*--------------*---------------*----------
Chloe Carter
In article <504blt$l...@siberia.gtri.gatech.edu>, mmit...@seal.gtri.gatech.edu
(Mark A. Mitchell) writes:
>(Any opinions on what the Braves can get in trade for Justice?
>
>Mark Mitchell Georgia Tech mark.m...@gtri.gatech.edu
I'd like to see the Braves talk to the White Sox about a trade
involving Justice and Ventura. The Sox need a decent power-hitting
outfielder, and the Braves badly need a solid 3B. Snopek is IMHO
ready to play 3B for the Sox. Also, Justice hits left-handed, as
does Ventura, so the Sox will still have a good left-handed power
bat in the lineup.
- Chloe
Gary Huckabay
In article <50hvk1$1h...@cheatum.frontiernet.net>,
Chloe Carter <qpc...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>(Any opinions on what the Braves can get in trade for Justice?
>>
>>Mark Mitchell Georgia Tech mark.m...@gtri.gatech.edu
>
>I'd like to see the Braves talk to the White Sox about a trade
>involving Justice and Ventura.
Yes, and I'd like the Braves to talk to the A's about a trade involving
Andruw Jones and Dave Zancanaro.
>The Sox need a decent power-hitting
>outfielder, and the Braves badly need a solid 3B.
The Sox would be getting an older player who doesn't hit as well, is
more injury prone, grossly overpaid, and can't play the IF. Why on
God's green earth would the White Sox make this deal?
>Snopek is IMHO
>ready to play 3B for the Sox.
He's ready to play SS for the Sox.
>Also, Justice hits left-handed, as
>does Ventura, so the Sox will still have a good left-handed power
>bat in the lineup.
Hey, what the Hell, I'll throw in John Briscoe.
--
* Gary Huckabay * To join the _Baseball_Prospectus_ mailing list, send *
* Author, _Baseball * a request to glhuc...@ucdavis.edu. Monthly news- *
* _Prospectus_'96_. * letters begin August 1st. *
Jennie Rosenbaum Matthews
Chloe Carter (qpc...@frontiernet.net) wrote:
&I'd like to see the Braves talk to the White Sox about a trade
&involving Justice and Ventura. The Sox need a decent power-hitting
&outfielder, and the Braves badly need a solid 3B. Snopek is IMHO
&ready to play 3B for the Sox. Also, Justice hits left-handed, as
&does Ventura, so the Sox will still have a good left-handed power
&bat in the lineup.
Some problems with this proposal:
1. The Braves already have a solid third baseman. Some guy named Jones; I
hear he goes by "Chipper". The Braves could improve themselves
significantly by just cutting Pendleton, moving Jones back to 3b,
and installing Giovanola(sp?) at short.
2. Why would the Sox ship Ventura and move Snopek to short when they could
keep both and play Snopek at short? I mean, Ozzie Guillen can't play
forever. Or can he.....?
Pat
--
Patrick G. Matthews
"Listening to Offspring while driving automatically increases your speed
by 10 miles per hour without even touching the accelerator."
- Rick Grimes, 5/95
Keith Law
Jennie Rosenbaum Matthews wrote:
> 2. Why would the Sox ship Ventura and move Snopek to short when they could
> keep both and play Snopek at short? I mean, Ozzie Guillen can't play
> forever. Or can he.....?
This implies he could play at some point in the recent past. You're
right about Snopek, though. Shouldn't he have been in there all year?
Jack Heraty
qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe Carter) wrote:
>In article <504blt$l...@siberia.gtri.gatech.edu>, mmit...@seal.gtri.gatech.edu
>(Mark A. Mitchell) writes:
>
>>(Any opinions on what the Braves can get in trade for Justice?
>>
>>Mark Mitchell Georgia Tech mark.m...@gtri.gatech.edu
>
>I'd like to see the Braves talk to the White Sox about a trade
>involving Justice and Ventura. The Sox need a decent power-hitting
>outfielder, and the Braves badly need a solid 3B. Snopek is IMHO
>ready to play 3B for the Sox. Also, Justice hits left-handed, as
>does Ventura, so the Sox will still have a good left-handed power
>bat in the lineup.
>
>- Chloe
If the Sox ever traded the best third baseman in their history for an
older, injury prone outfielder like Justice, I would personally pay to
have Ron Schueler committed.
The Braves badly need a solid third baseman? They got one, but are
playing him at short lately. Him i'd consider trading Ventura for,
and him alone.
--
Jack Heraty
Don't take the world serious.
Jack Heraty
Keith Law <kl...@shore.net> wrote:
>Jennie Rosenbaum Matthews wrote:
>> 2. Why would the Sox ship Ventura and move Snopek to short when they could
>> keep both and play Snopek at short? I mean, Ozzie Guillen can't play
>> forever. Or can he.....?
>
>This implies he could play at some point in the recent past. You're
>right about Snopek, though. Shouldn't he have been in there all year?
Have you taken a look at what Ventura's been doing this year? Are you
nuts? Or doesn't 31 home runs mean anything to you?
Snopek should be playing next to Ventura, not in place of him.
Keith Law
Jack Heraty wrote:
>
> Keith Law <kl...@shore.net> wrote:
>
> >Jennie Rosenbaum Matthews wrote:
> >> 2. Why would the Sox ship Ventura and move Snopek to short when they could
> >> keep both and play Snopek at short? I mean, Ozzie Guillen can't play
> >> forever. Or can he.....?
> >
> >This implies he could play at some point in the recent past. You're
> >right about Snopek, though. Shouldn't he have been in there all year?
>
> Have you taken a look at what Ventura's been doing this year? Are you
> nuts? Or doesn't 31 home runs mean anything to you?
Read a little more carefully, Mr. Bluster. I'm talking about Guillen -
the last player referred to in the quoted passage, and the one who
"can't play forever." I said that that implied "he could play at some
point in the recent past." It's really not that hard to follow.
Phil Ponebshek
>
> qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe Carter) wrote:
> >I'd like to see the Braves talk to the White Sox about a trade
> >involving Justice and Ventura.
Jack Heraty responded:
> If the Sox ever traded the best third baseman in their history for an
> older, injury prone outfielder like Justice, I would personally pay to
> have Ron Schueler committed.
The same old fan's thing: let's give up our overpriced spare parts, for
their good stuff. Logs like this have kept the hot stove burning
through the winter for decades. And every once in awhile there's a GM
willing to bite, to give the tales credibility...
I can't see what team would trade for Justice. The FA market this year
will include Bonilla, Belle, Burks, Carter, Tartabull, Vaughn, and maybe
Gilkey and Alou. It's gonna be a buyers market for OFs with some pop.
Gregg Rosenberg
In article <3235B4...@radian.com>,
Phil Ponebshek <Philip_P...@Radian.com> wrote:
>Jack Heraty responded:
>
>> If the Sox ever traded the best third baseman in their history for an
>> older, injury prone outfielder like Justice, I would personally pay to
>> have Ron Schueler committed.
>
>The same old fan's thing: let's give up our overpriced spare parts, for
>their good stuff. Logs like this have kept the hot stove burning
>through the winter for decades. And every once in awhile there's a GM
>willing to bite, to give the tales credibility...
>
>I can't see what team would trade for Justice.
When did Justice become an overpriced spare part? The last few years he's
been a .400/.500 player on offense, and a very good defensive OF. He has
been one of the best RF in either league, and should be again. For most
ML teams, he'd be a significant upgrade.
--Gregg
Jeff Joseph
In article <3235B4...@Radian.com>, Phil Ponebshek
<Philip_P...@Radian.com> wrote:
>I can't see what team would trade for Justice. The FA market this year
>will include Bonilla, Belle, Burks, Carter, Tartabull, Vaughn, and maybe
>Gilkey and Alou. It's gonna be a buyers market for OFs with some pop.
Carter is signed for next year. He signed a one-year extension about a
month ago.