The Chicago Curse
naniwadekar
Is it true that the Chicago curse gets talked about a lot
less often than the Boston curse? I know the Red Sox
Nation cares passionately about their team and every
day people die in the region without the satisfaction of
seeing their team win the World Series. Do people in
Chicago/Illinois care anything like as passionately as
the BoSox supporters? Why is the Chicago curse
associated with the Cubs so often? Their AL team
has also gone without a WS win for almost as long as
the Cubs. IIRC the northern part of Chicago supports
the White Sox and the southern part the Cubs. Is their
support split geographically in the rest of Illinois ?
Eric Opperman
You have it backwards. North is Cubs, South Sox. And the rest of the
state is split geographically, in a sense, in that nobody cares about
the White Sox. The real Illinois split is in the Springfield
area...north of there are Cubs fans, south of there are Cardinals fans.
The Curse of the Billy Goat isn't directly referred to as much as the
Curse of the Bambino, but the drought itself is talked about just as
much. As for the Sox, again, not many people really care. From what
I've seen, they've got a decent loyal fan base in south Chicago, but
nothing outside, and that fan base isn't large by Chicago standards.
--
Thanks for your time,
Eric Opperman
"I've got a job to do, and that's part of it. I've got a special feeling
for Sidney, and I will in 20 years--unless he blows up my house or
something." -- Baltimore Orioles manager Mike Hargrove on telling Sidney
Ponson he'd been traded to the Giants.
Sam Hutcheson
In my experience, the BoSox' historical futility is always played as a
"curse" and the pathos of the Nation as "tragic," whereas the Cubs'
longer and more pathetic string is played as "happenstance" and
comedy. Why that is the case, I don't know.
The White Sox are just ignored.
s/
*****
"Is it possible to leave virtual bags of flaming dogshit lying around?
What's the emoticon for that?" -- Jon Richardson
Matt Deres
"Sam Hutcheson" <sigma.alpha...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bttbov8m24s8d9pks...@4ax.com...
> In my experience, the BoSox' historical futility is always played as a
> "curse" and the pathos of the Nation as "tragic," whereas the Cubs'
> longer and more pathetic string is played as "happenstance" and
> comedy. Why that is the case, I don't know.
Well, the Cubs don't have a defining moment of when their curse began. In
fact, I find it a little odd that they're considered cursed at all,
considering they were really only truly crappy from the mid-40s to the
mid-60s. There's a lot of mediocre ball before and after, but also quite a
few first division finishes. Where was the Curse of Philadelphia (prior to
1980)? They had almost 65 straight years of garbage.
For the BoSox, the curse obviously began with the sale of the Babe to the
Yankees. I started hearing about the curse of Rocky Colavito for the
Indians back when they began to play decent ball again, but that never
really matched up well anyway.
The trouble with the White Sox (apart from apathy) is that some people can't
agree whether the Black Sox scandal cursed them or whether Shoeless Joe's
expulsion did
Matt
TJNawrocki
>The Curse of the Billy Goat isn't directly referred to as much as the
>Curse of the Bambino, but the drought itself is talked about just as
>much. As for the Sox, again, not many people really care. From what
>I've seen, they've got a decent loyal fan base in south Chicago, but
>nothing outside, and that fan base isn't large by Chicago standards.
Northwest Indiana is White Sox country, too. Even before Gary native Ron Kittle
starred for them.
Tom Nawrocki
Regina Litman
The reason why it is hard for me to think of the White Sox as a cursed
team is that I first became aware of baseball during the 1959 World
Series. The White Sox were one of the teams playing then. Although they
lost and haven't been back there since, to me they were winners just for
having gotten there in the first place that year. The Cubs have not been
to a World Series since 1945, but the White Sox at least were there 14
years later.
The 1959 World Series winning franchise, the Dodgers, had been
considered a cursed team until only four years earlier, I later learned.
1959 was only their second World Championship year. Of course, it could
be argued that leaving Brooklyn may have helped them turn around, and
perhaps leaving New York has cursed the Giants, who have been to the
World Series three times without winning it after moving to San Francisco.
I went to my first-ever Major League game the following year, 1960, and
the White Sox were the winning team, beating my hometown Washington
Senators (in their last year before moving to Minnesota, where they also
may have shaken a curse). So, that was more evidence to me that the
Chisox were a winning team. I finally located the date of that game,
July 30, 1960, thanks to help from this newsgroup, and I've looked up
contemporary newspaper accounts of it. The win over the Senators lifted
Chicago into first place in the American League, and I understand they
gave the Yankees a run for the money that year.
The White Sox have had some bad years since then, including 1970 and
1976, when they were bad enough to have the first pick in the draft the
following year. In 1971, they picked Danny Goodwin, who didn't sign with
them, but in 1977, they got Harold Baines, who gave them a lot of good
years and who had a substantial career that included time with other
teams, too. With some more ALCS luck in the two years before this one
that ended in 3, they could have had the opportunity to beat the
Phillies in the World Series. Maybe Mitch Williams' name would have been
forever linked with that of Frank Thomas instead of Joe Carter.
--
Please note my correct email address:
rslitman [at-sign] infionline [dot] net
Gerry Myerson
<jwnhb.61275$ko%.55461@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
"Matt Deres" <mdere...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Well, the Cubs don't have a defining moment of when their curse began. In
> fact, I find it a little odd that they're considered cursed at all,
> considering they were really only truly crappy from the mid-40s to the
> mid-60s. There's a lot of mediocre ball before and after, but also quite a
> few first division finishes. Where was the Curse of Philadelphia (prior to
> 1980)? They had almost 65 straight years of garbage.
Well, they did win a pennant in 1950.
--
Gerry Myerson (ge...@maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email)
Bob Roman
<eri...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>naniwadekar wrote:
>> Why is the Chicago curse
>> associated with the Cubs so often? Their AL team
>> has also gone without a WS win for almost as long as
>> the Cubs.
>
>North is Cubs, South Sox. And the rest of the
>state is split geographically, in a sense, in that nobody cares about
>the White Sox. [...]
>north of there are Cubs fans, south of there are Cardinals fans.
To his credit, Bill Veeck tried valliantly to create a White Sox
mystique, based on the premise that Cubs fans are elitists and Sox
fans are Regular Joes.
Bob Roman
Steve Cutchen
<jwnhb.61275$ko%.55461@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, Matt
Deres <mdere...@rogers.com> wrote:
> "Sam Hutcheson" <sigma.alpha...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:bttbov8m24s8d9pks...@4ax.com...
>
> > In my experience, the BoSox' historical futility is always played as a
> > "curse" and the pathos of the Nation as "tragic," whereas the Cubs'
> > longer and more pathetic string is played as "happenstance" and
> > comedy. Why that is the case, I don't know.
>
> Well, the Cubs don't have a defining moment of when their curse began.
Yes they do!
The Cubs suffer from the Merkle Curse. They have never won a World
Series since Chance used a previously unenforced, obscure rule to
weasel the pennant away from the Giants in 1908.
Perry Sailor
"Steve Cutchen" <scut...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:101020030011580527%scut...@airmail.net...
Hmmm.... doesn't quite work, since they did win the World Series IN 1908.
Was it a delayed curse? A "you can win the WS you weaseled into, but never
again" curse? Hmmm.... I like that better than the billy goat story.
Perry
David Craven
"Regina Litman" <rsli...@infi.net> wrote in message
news:3F860F63...@infi.net...
> > Is it true that the Chicago curse gets talked about a lot
> > less often than the Boston curse? I know the Red Sox
> > Nation cares passionately about their team and every
> > day people die in the region without the satisfaction of
> > seeing their team win the World Series. Do people in
> > Chicago/Illinois care anything like as passionately as
> > the BoSox supporters?
Actually, yes. In many ways baseball fans are just about as passionate
here. The difference is that Chicago does have other teams to the North,
South East and West which limit the total market size. Boston really has no
effective limits in a couple of directions.
> Why is the Chicago curse
> > associated with the Cubs so often? Their AL team
> > has also gone without a WS win for almost as long as
> > the Cubs. IIRC the northern part of Chicago supports
> > the White Sox and the southern part the Cubs. Is their
> > support split geographically in the rest of Illinois ?
>
Well fans of both teams are well aware of the curse. But you are far more
likely to run into an alive person who remembers the White Sox in the World
Series. (They only have to be in their late 50's.) A Cub fan would need
to be in their mid 60's. The more "frightening" statistic is that EVERY
team that has ever been to a world series has been to the world series at
least once (other than the two Chicago teams since...
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1979 and the Pittsburgh Pirates. Every other team that has ever been to
the WS has been their since 1979... except for the Cubs and the White Sox...
and that's what makes their curse so extraordinary.
We may see BOTH curse broken this year. Cubs GET to the WS, Red Sox WIN the
WS..
Steve Cutchen
<perry....@colorado.edu> wrote:
They got cursed becaue of their ill-gotten gain in 1908. Which turned
out to be both the pennant and the WS.
Steve Cutchen
Craven <spam...@nul.dev> wrote:
> "Regina Litman" <rsli...@infi.net> wrote in message
> news:3F860F63...@infi.net...
>
> > > Is it true that the Chicago curse gets talked about a lot
> > > less often than the Boston curse? I know the Red Sox
> > > Nation cares passionately about their team and every
> > > day people die in the region without the satisfaction of
> > > seeing their team win the World Series. Do people in
> > > Chicago/Illinois care anything like as passionately as
> > > the BoSox supporters?
>
> Actually, yes. In many ways baseball fans are just about as passionate
> here. The difference is that Chicago does have other teams to the North,
> South East and West which limit the total market size. Boston really has no
> effective limits in a couple of directions.
Well, yeah. I guess it IS wide open to the East...
Bob Roman
wrote:
>Robert...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> To his credit, Bill Veeck tried valliantly to create a White Sox
>> mystique, based on the premise that Cubs fans are elitists and Sox
>> fans are Regular Joes.
>
>Wrigley Field is on the north side; the Sox's stadium is on the south side
>of the city. North Chicago is higher on the socio-economic ladder than the
>south.
That's why I said "tried valliantly"...
Bob Roman
Bob Roman
wrote:
>They got cursed becaue of their ill-gotten gain in 1908. Which turned
>out to be both the pennant and the WS.
Is that based on sabermetric or traditional analysis? :)
Bob Roman
Kenny
You didn't know that Europe is an extension of Red Sox nation? [g]
Kenny
Steve Cutchen
<110605.647...@compuserve.com> wrote:
HEY! IT'S NOT ALL THAT BAMBINO CRAP!
THE RED SOX GOT FRANCE IN THEIR FAN BASE!!
Kenny
> In article <bm7qk7$kp4$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>, Kenny
> <110605.647...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > Steve Cutchen <scut...@airmail.net> wrote in message
> > news:101020031222397463%scut...@airmail.net...
> > >
> >
> > You didn't know that Europe is an extension of Red Sox nation? [g]
>
> HEY! IT'S NOT ALL THAT BAMBINO CRAP!
> THE RED SOX GOT FRANCE IN THEIR FAN BASE!!
Yeah that explains a lot.
Kenny