Joe Morgan - "6, 2 and Even"

[Rocklin-Weare]

Okay Red Sox trivia experts, I need YOUR help. I am trying to track down
the origins of an expression attributed to Joe Morgan of the 1988
Red Sox. He would often use the expression, "6, 2 and even." I understand
that Joe was a horse racing fan. There is some thought that this is the
origins of the expression. I would love to know the origins of this
expression. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Karen

[Nathan Franzen]

& On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Steven Rubio wrote:

> This is probably not the final answer, but it may point you in the
> right direction. Back in the 60s there was a cartoon series based on
> the Dick Tracy comic strip. In each cartoon, Tracy would talk to one
> of his detectives via the wrist-radio, to send them on a case. When
> the conversation was over, Tracy would say, "Six, two, and even, over
> and out."

I've always been curious about this too. Another couple hints: the phrase
also appears in "The Maltese Falcon." Bogart says it. "Six, two and even
they're selling you out, kid."

Later I was reading in Hoyle's some of the rules of betting on craps, and
discovered that there are any number of similar phrases in that game.
Various ways of describing the type of throw that the player needs to make
(a six and a two, perhaps?) and the player's chances of making the point.
The phrase may also include the relative amounts of money being wagered
for or against the player. I'm not a craps player, but I am pretty sure
that the phrase comes from here.

Find someone who truly knows about gambling - horses, cards & dice - and
six two and even you'll have your answer.

Nathan Franzen

[Rocklin-Weare]

Steven Rubio wrote:
>
> Rocklin-Weare <A...@grolen.com> wrote:
>
> >Okay Red Sox trivia experts, I need YOUR help. I am trying to track down
> >the origins of an expression attributed to Joe Morgan of the 1988
> >Red Sox. He would often use the expression, "6, 2 and even." I understand
> >that Joe was a horse racing fan. There is some thought that this is the
> >origins of the expression. I would love to know the origins of this
> >expression. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>

> This is probably not the final answer, but it may point you in the
> right direction. Back in the 60s there was a cartoon series based on
> the Dick Tracy comic strip. In each cartoon, Tracy would talk to one
> of his detectives via the wrist-radio, to send them on a case. When
> the conversation was over, Tracy would say, "Six, two, and even, over
> and out."
>

> Now, I don't know if Morgan was just quoting old cartoon shows, but
> maybe this is a CB-radio saying or something?
>
> Steven
> http://garnet.berkeley.edu:4251

Thanks Steven,
You have at least given me a good lead to pursue....

Karen

[Steven Rubio]

[Rocklin-Weare]

Nathan Franzen wrote:
>
> Rocklin-Weare <A...@grolen.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Okay Red Sox trivia experts, I need YOUR help. I am trying to track down
> > >the origins of an expression attributed to Joe Morgan of the 1988
> > >Red Sox. He would often use the expression, "6, 2 and even." I understand
> > >that Joe was a horse racing fan. There is some thought that this is the
> > >origins of the expression. I would love to know the origins of this
> > >expression. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>

> & On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Steven Rubio wrote:
>

> > This is probably not the final answer, but it may point you in the
> > right direction. Back in the 60s there was a cartoon series based on
> > the Dick Tracy comic strip. In each cartoon, Tracy would talk to one
> > of his detectives via the wrist-radio, to send them on a case. When
> > the conversation was over, Tracy would say, "Six, two, and even, over
> > and out."
>

> I've always been curious about this too. Another couple hints: the phrase
> also appears in "The Maltese Falcon." Bogart says it. "Six, two and even
> they're selling you out, kid."
>
> Later I was reading in Hoyle's some of the rules of betting on craps, and
> discovered that there are any number of similar phrases in that game.
> Various ways of describing the type of throw that the player needs to make
> (a six and a two, perhaps?) and the player's chances of making the point.
> The phrase may also include the relative amounts of money being wagered
> for or against the player. I'm not a craps player, but I am pretty sure
> that the phrase comes from here.
>
> Find someone who truly knows about gambling - horses, cards & dice - and
> six two and even you'll have your answer.
>
> Nathan Franzen

Thanks Nathan, I will take all the leads on this that I can.
Karen

[tony...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, October 10, 1996 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rocklin-Weare wrote:
> Okay Red Sox trivia experts, I need YOUR help. I am trying to track down
> the origins of an expression attributed to Joe Morgan of the 1988
> Red Sox. He would often use the expression, "6, 2 and even." I understand
> that Joe was a horse racing fan. There is some thought that this is the
> origins of the expression. I would love to know the origins of this
> expression. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>

> Karen

It's a term that comes from figuring odds on a horse-race bet, very commonly heard at the track in the 1920s and '30s. In addition to Bogart's use, it is also quoted in the Damon Runyonese of the musical "Guys and Dolls."

I'm not sure what 6 and 2 refer to, but even means an even bet, no points either way. But the meaning of the whole term means "More likely than not" or "Clear favorite," etc. Hence the Bogart usage, "6, 2 and even they're selling you out, kid" means: "I'd bet the farm they're selling you out, kid."

Also, a decade or three later, ick Tracy, the detective in the newspaper comic strip of the same name, used the phrase to sign off when he was done speaking to HQ or another cop on his futuristic wrist-radio (yes, it actually kind of looked like an Apple watch). His sign-off was "Six, two and even - over and out." Not sure what that was about, but I'm guessing maybe some people began to understand the phrase as "All fine," "Coast is clear," "Hunky-dory,' etc. But that is strictly a guess. The betting odds origins I'm much more sure about.

Hope this is helpful.

Six, two and even - over and out.