Carbon arrow breakage
moreau michael james
questions about what happens to a carbon arrow when it breaks. Here is the
background:
I am using carbon arrows in a medieval combat sport called
Dagorhir, which allows 'live' arrow fire during combat. unlike the SCA or
other similar groups, combatants in Dagorhir do not have to wear protective
armor or headgear. This poses a problem concerning the safety of an arrow if
it is accidentally broken in flight (by a swinging sword, etc.). Currently,
wood or fiberglass arrows must have the shaft taped to prevent injury due to
sharp slivers of wood or glass which protrude when an arrow breaks. Aluminum
arrows are exempt from this rule since they usually just bend. A hard and
fast rule has not been determined for carbon arrows because they are a fairly
recent development and are only now becoming economically viable as an
alternative. I would like to avoid having to tape the arrow shafts because
it is aesthetically ugly and also would decrease accuracy.
So (finally), here is the multi-part question. First, roughly how
much force does it take to break a carbon arrow. A good measurement would be
to describe what that same force would do to an aluminum arrow (bend angle).
Second, since I have never broken a carbon arrow, what is the expected result
of a break? Does the arrow shatter into filaments the entire length of the
shaft or only partially? Last, is there any danger of the broken shaft
injuring someone on impact (shot from a 35# bow)? I would greatly appreciate
any response.
Thanks.
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Darrell Brazell
shafts that I would be worried about near as much as the live arrows.
Even from a 35# bow, an arrow, carbon or not, can be very dangerous.
What do you use for tips? Rubber balls? (Not very aesthetic or
"medievil (sp?)" if you ask me?)
As for what happens when carbon arrows break, they usually splinter
into a million slivers and could be much more dangerous than wood or
fiberglass. As for how much abuse will they take? They will take a
lot, but I don't think they are any match for a "medievil sword."
Hope this helps a little and please explain this game in more detail
as I am sure that I am not the only archer who is shaking his head
wondering about the safety of your game. Enlighten us so we don't
write you off as more than a little off your catepult.
Darrell Brazell
Michael J. Larsen
> much force does it take to break a carbon arrow. A good measurement would be
> to describe what that same force would do to an aluminum arrow (bend angle).
> Second, since I have never broken a carbon arrow, what is the expected result
> of a break? Does the arrow shatter into filaments the entire length of the
> shaft or only partially? Last, is there any danger of the broken shaft
> injuring someone on impact (shot from a 35# bow)? I would greatly appreciate
> any response.
Carbon arrows basically shatter into hundreds of tiny slivers when they break.
From my experiences, carbon arrows are generally tougher than others arrows. One
thing that does happen to carbon arrows when they hit a fairly solid object is
that the front 1/4" of the arrow begins to splinter and internal inserts/points
are easily forced back into the shaft. The best way around this is to use an
arrow that utilizes an outsert. The actual amount of shattering varies. I have
seen some that just have a small crack along the length of the shaft and others
that are nothing more then a pile of carbon slivers.
My recommendation to you would be to shoot an overspined arrow for you bow (35#)
such as a Easton 6.1 PC with a point outsert. It may not tune as well or shoot as
fast as the lighter arrow, but there will be much less chance of the shaft
breaking on impact.
-Michael Larsen
Archery Technician, Al's Sporting Goods
President, Cache Archers
moreau michael james
> What do you use for tips? Rubber balls? (Not very aesthetic or
> "medievil (sp?)" if you ask me?)
> as I am sure that I am not the only archer who is shaking his head
> wondering about the safety of your game.
The arrow tip is first enlarged to the size of a penny by wrapping
duct tape around the tip. Then an inner core is built from a 3 1/2" cube of
open cell (mattress) foam into a conical shape which offers some padding and
more stability. Finally a another piece of 3 X 1 1/2 X 8" foam is draped
over the top and secured at the sides. The end result is a 3" arrow face
which is soft when it hits, will not enter the eye socket, and is fairly
rugged (can stand up to many firings). This design is very safe: to my
knowledge, no one has ever been injured with these arrows.
Of course the arrows looks do leave something to be desired, but
safety always takes precidence over realism. Its better to have somewhat odd
looking bulky arrows than to have none at all. Archers played a crucial role
in medieval times and any representation of battle in that period of history
should include them. By the way, live arrows are used in many medieval
sports organizations, including the SCA and live-action roleplaying (larp)
groups in the U.S., England, and around the world.
I have never hunted an animal with a bow or otherwise, but the thrill
of shooting at another person is probably as exciting, if not more so. The
most memorable and spectacular kills are the ones in which I am moving, the
target is moving, and there is a large distance between us. Actually I would
think all target archers and hunters would enjoy a sport such as this, since
it incorporates aspects of both disciplines - you get to take up to several
hundred shots at dynamic targets.
As for the sport Dagorhir itself, basically we make weapons out of
PVC pipe, fiberglass rod, or bamboo, and shields out of wood, covering each
with a generous layer of foam all around. Then we engage in various battle
types and may the best team win. A single strike to the torso is death, as
is strikes to any two limbs. Any limb hit incapacitates that limb, meaning a
struck arm may not be used for carrying a shield, sword, etc., and a struck
leg must be kneeled upon. The head and neck are not legal targets except for
missile weapons, which are padded more heavily and made with softer foam.
Each battle is about ten to fifteen minutes long, the battle day lasting
about four hours. Everyone wears a medieval costume to help recreate the
atmosphere, and real armor without sharp edges can be worn to gain an extra
hit to the area it covers. For more info, check out this site:
"http://www.charm.net/~dagorhir". Other group web sites such as the SCA,
Amtgard, and other larps can be found on the net by doing an internet search
with the appropriate name.
Bye.
Perry Ratcliff
Carbon arrows indeed take a lot of abuse for their intended
purposes, hitting a target relatively straight on. However, I found
out the hard way that carbon arrow do not withstand shear well at
all. Before switching to carbon arrows I entered a lot of running
animal shoots with fair success. The first time I tried the same
thing with ACE shafts I ended up with five of six broken shafts,
even though all six arrows struck the intended target. I suspect
that you would see similar results on glancing blows.
My recomendation, stay away from carbon arrows where glancing blows
or some degree of shear is expected. Quite expensive and very
dangerous. Arrows will penetrate armor.
Good Shooting!
Perry
CWilli6247
Woody Williams
If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy.
Alex D Rodriguez
CWilli6247 <cwill...@aol.com> wrote:
>And I always thought "paint ball war games" was weird ! This takes all !
Paint ball games are quite safe. The only vulnerable areas are your eyes, and
eyeshields are mandatory. Getting Shot with arrows out of a 35# bow with
no armor or helmets, that's risky.
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Alex __O '86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo
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