Upset
Paul - xxx
and could hardly shoot.
OK, so my neck was hurting, still not got the trapped nerve sorted,
can't get physio without going private, and I haven't shot properly for
ages it seems, just a couple of hours the last two sundays, but I only
scored 509 .. which is a big let-down for me.
Just shows that practice is all.
Trouble is I know what (at least I think I do) a lot of my problem is,
and it's bow hand position. I keep moving my bow hand. My loose is
OK, all the other stuff is OK, but for some reason I keep applying
pressures differently to the bow, hence consistency of shot is wrong.
Being a numpty I tried to make up for it by changing sight settings and
getting all messed up!! Only shot two ends of 30, rest were all over
... I would normally expect a few more 30's at least and a lot more
consistency of shot. One end I even scored a bloody 4, with an end
total of 17 (Outer red 7, Inner blue6, inner black 4)!! My aim was to
not get into the blue, but I managed it loads of times, with the single
black thrown in to kick me when I'm down.
Looking on the bright side, it's summat to work on anyway ... ;)
--
Paul - xxx
'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp
Frank
Look up neck exercises on the internet. Fairly simple stretches will
help a pinched nerve. Not sure about your archery as even though a
couple of months of physical therapy stopped the aches I gave up hunting
with a compound bow as shooting a few dozen arrows would leave me in
pain for a few days. At least exercise saved me from having to see an
orthopedic surgeon. Now I bow hunt with a crossbow.
Paul - xxx
LOL, I didn't think of looking on the net for exercises, thanks.
Funnily it doesn't hurt too much, I just know it's there, IYSWIM. It's
something I've lived with for years .. broken neck/top vertebra and
three discs put well out, from an accident down t'pit when roof caved
in and I was trapped for a while, back when I were a lad .. Which means
that every so often I crick my neck, a disc displaces, and touches the
nerve (I can feel it) but it doesn't start hurting at first, then a
week later it begins to hurt. This time it initially went on New Years
Day as I awoke and rolled over ... had a few weeks off work, but went
back 'cos it wasn't agoiny.
Been down to the Archery club today and shot a Western round, and it's
official, I now haven't got a bowhand anymore .. ;) Something to work
on!! When I get it right I'm within gold/red every time, when it's
wrong it's completely random, though I didn't miss the boss!!!
Frank
>
> - Show quoted text -
The best of the exercises I found is to just slowly turn your head
from side to side and stretch to look over your shoulder. Others
basically moving chin to chest and head from side to side, ear toward
shoulder. I quit the full series but continue the glancing over the
shoulder.
Dave
news:90b14aa2-e585-48ab...@p6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 10, 12:04 pm, "Paul - xxx" <notcheckede...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Frank wrote:
> > Paul - xxx wrote:
< Big SNIP>
> --
> Paul - xxx
>
> '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
> Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
<Another snip)
We had a guy at the club who had a similar problem. An osteopath suggested
he try this exercise. Turn your head as far as you can to the right. Once
there, put a finger on your chin and push it a little further. Leave it
there for a couple of seconds and then give another little push. Only repeat
two or three times and then try by turning to the opposite side and repeat.
He used to do this before shooting as part of his warm-ups and it certainly
helped.
--
Dave Hall. Chairman & Record's Officer
Pembroke Company of Archers.
Austin Shackles
<notchec...@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>Just shows that practice is all.
>
'tis indeed - and moreover, the bow arm/hand thing is critical.
Make sure of the following:
* wrist straight, as good as, definitely not bent, either up, down or
sideways.
* sling in place (or finger-sling, if you prefer)
* not gripping bow. either use an open-hand grip, or I've recently been
experimenting with a grip like the Koreans were using at the Olympics -
where the fingers are made into a fist beside the bow grip. Personally, I
find that makes it next-to-impossible to grip the bow.
* bow grip between thumb and index finger, such that the ball of the thumb
is against the bottom part of the grip. If that pushes your wrist out of
line, hunt a different grip.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
Paul - xxx
> On or around 10 Mar 2009 09:05:34 GMT, "Paul - xxx"
> <notchec...@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>
> > Just shows that practice is all.
> >
>
> 'tis indeed - and moreover, the bow arm/hand thing is critical.
>
> Make sure of the following:
>
> * wrist straight, as good as, definitely not bent, either up, down or
> sideways.
>
> * sling in place (or finger-sling, if you prefer)
>
> * not gripping bow. either use an open-hand grip, or I've recently
> been experimenting with a grip like the Koreans were using at the
> Olympics - where the fingers are made into a fist beside the bow
> grip. Personally, I find that makes it next-to-impossible to grip
> the bow.
Thanks Austin, all those are how I've always been coached.
> * bow grip between thumb and index finger, such that the ball of the
> thumb is against the bottom part of the grip. If that pushes your
> wrist out of line, hunt a different grip.
That, I think, is the problem. I'm moving my thumb, and I know it's
only by millimetres, but this is obviously enough movement of pressure
to move the arrow about 2' at 60 yards ... and it's almost certainly a
mental thing. I'm so conscious of my hand now that it's the _only_
thing I'm concentrating on, which isn't helping. I think I might try a
couple of different grips, see if that helps.
Looking back, the last tournament I was moving my thumb, then chasing
it with the sights, then getting it right, re-setting sights then
moving off line again etc .. screwed me right up!!
I've also noticed since going up in weight of limb how critical this
hand placement is .. Hoyt Helix with #42 G3 limbs isn't a very
forgiving setup at all and effectively magnifies the problem. The
weaker setup I had of #36 CRX limbs was much more forgiving on the hand
placement. In the long run this is all to the good, as it's forcing me
to look at and evaluate how I shoot and making me use the correct
techniques all the time.
Jeez, am I getting geeky, or just obsessed ... ;)
Nice and cathartic to write it down and have some goood answers/help
back. Lads at the club are great, taking the piss (as I also do)
mostly in good hearted banter, but are very good shots and help a lot.
Austin Shackles
<notchec...@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>Jeez, am I getting geeky, or just obsessed ... ;)
>
>Nice and cathartic to write it down and have some goood answers/help
>back. Lads at the club are great, taking the piss (as I also do)
>mostly in good hearted banter, but are very good shots and help a lot.
Yeah, sounds like you need to sort out your grip/hand position.
I've been messing with holding the bow a bit like the Koreans do these days,
as observed on the olympics passim - fingers folded up fist-style, almost.
Brian Bailey
Nope, Paul you aren't. Lurking on this ng, in a desultory way, from time
to time. Had to stop doing archery for a while now, due to domestic
issues, but more relevant to your crisis of confidence, due to the
consequences of an industrial accident which has caught up with me after
50 years.
I have deep neck scar tissue which has troubled me all my life. My take on
this is that you are wasting your time with physio and would be far better
off with chiropractic, osteopathy, accupuncture or shiatsu. Tried all and
the latter has, only in the last two years, started to sort things out in
my neck and my back and shoulder, though have tried all the others, which
were helpful each in their own way. Horses for courses.
A secondary issue is your bow and possibly your style of archery, in
total. Because of my neck scar tissue I decided to go compound from the
start to minimise load on my musculature, and because of long term deep
muscle damage in the back and shoulder, ie the holding load at full draw,
which in my case did affect the scar tissue, just in case anyone might be
thinking that it shouldn't affect the neck. However, what I am coming
round to is that I chose a Hoyt bow and, from my perspective, couldn't
believe how badly ergonomically designed the bow grip was. I stress, that
is just my opinion, for my purposes only, with my particular anatomy.
Nonetheless, getting one of the Hoyt replacement grips and filing and
sanding madly, but very carefully and intelligently, produced a grip which
made a very significant difference to my shooting and which to some
significant extent accommodated the vagaries of my various injuries and my
particular anatomy. A custom made grip might also be an option for you to
consider.
If you had a copy of the excellent book 'Archery Anatomy' to hand whilst
carefully considering the above you just might benefit enormously. I did!
I weren't down pit. I had a load of steel fall on my foot in a boiler
works. Upset lad, I was, believe me!
My very best wishes. I hope you get it sorted.
Cheers,
Brian
Austin Shackles
enlightened us thusly:
>austinDITCHTHIS...@ddol-las.net said...
>> On or around 13 Mar 2009 08:07:45 GMT, "Paul - xxx"
>> <notchec...@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >Jeez, am I getting geeky, or just obsessed ... ;)
>> >
>> >Nice and cathartic to write it down and have some goood answers/help
>> >back. Lads at the club are great, taking the piss (as I also do)
>> >mostly in good hearted banter, but are very good shots and help a lot.
>>
>> Yeah, sounds like you need to sort out your grip/hand position.
>>
>> I've been messing with holding the bow a bit like the Koreans do these days,
>> as observed on the olympics passim - fingers folded up fist-style, almost.
>>
>I've not seen the Koreans or the Olympics, but it sounds a bit like the
>way I 'hold' mine. Make a fist, but stick the thumb out at right-angles
>as if you were demonstrating whoever it was's Left Hand Rule (induction
>coil? Direction of current? Can't remember. Not that it matters...). The
>bow balances between thumb and forefinger. I use a fairly loose finger
>sling, never having got on with a wrist sling, and shoot Recurve
>Barebow.
You'd have to see me, or I you, shooting - I'm not convinced it'd work with
a finger sling.
Paul - xxx
> be far better off with chiropractic, osteopathy, accupuncture or
> shiatsu.
Had a session at an Acupuncturist (whatever!) and didn't initially feel
anything. Plus I have a healthy scepticism of 'weird stuff' ... but a
few days later and my neck is feeling better. ;)
Notalot. but enough to notice. I'm going to leave off anything for a
week, see what happens, then have another stab ... ;)
> However, what I am coming round to is that I chose a Hoyt bow and,
> from my perspective, couldn't believe how badly ergonomically
> designed the bow grip was. I stress, that is just my opinion, for my
> purposes only, with my particular anatomy.
Reason I chose a Hoyt Helix was 'cos I tried someone else's at the club
and it just 'fell to hand' .. felt immediately comfortable and just
plain 'right'. I was initially going for a Nexus, but the Helix came
up almost new on ebay, so I jumped .. ;)
> Nonetheless, getting one of the Hoyt replacement grips and filing and
> sanding madly, but very carefully and intelligently, produced a grip
> which made a very significant difference to my shooting and which to
> some significant extent accommodated the vagaries of my various
> injuries and my particular anatomy. A custom made grip might also be
> an option for you to consider.
We've got an Ortho grip ordered and another sp[are that i can fettle if
necessary .. for the price if it doesn't work I don't mind, and I can
just flog 'em on ebay ... ;)
> If you had a copy of the excellent book 'Archery Anatomy' to hand
> whilst carefully considering the above you just might benefit
> enormously. I did!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Archery-Anatomy-Introduction-Techniques-Performa
nce/dp/0285632655 on it's way .. ;)
> My very best wishes. I hope you get it sorted.
Cheers.
Paul - xxx
> Looking on the bright side, it's summat to work on anyway ... ;)
Well, had a very interesting afternoon.
After the 'issues' with my neck and hand, I thought that today I'd cut
down my arrows, a set of ACC 3-04 680's, so I can fit a 'proper'
clicker rather than the Cavalier Magnetic I have on for slightly long
arrows. I have short arms, so although I can pull #42 easily, my draw
length is probably only 24". I also thought I'd fettle the rest of my
kit, in the back yard, out in the sun, lovely day etc etc.
And during this fettling it suddenly clicked.
I've not long got the arrows and my bow was set up for my original
arrows, Easton X7's @ 1814 spine, so somewhat thicker than the acc's.
I _thought_ I'd re-set my bow to suit the acc's, but when I looked
today I obviously, so bloody obviously, hadn't. So I re-adjusted the
arrow rest, plunger, cushion spring for the slightly stiffer, shorter
arrows. Took about an hour of tuning and general messing with .. and
when tested I shot true, almost no matter where or how I put my hand!!
Shot two dozen to settle in, warm up and get the sights 'on', then
started recording ends.
So, I'm only shooting 12 yards, but used (From Texas State Archery
website) a Powerpoint macro to print an 80cm target to suit the shorter
distance .. and got 11 out of the first dozen arrows in the ten zone,
with four in the X .. ;)
Shot 12 dozen altogether, with only two arrows in the blue, and seven
in the red ... the whole target (Gold, Red and Blue rings) scaled
correctly to fit on an A4 sheet of paper backed with card.
I guess what had been happening was that because the arrows are slimmer
than the setup was set for, they had been shooting wrongly, to the
right. I'd not realised, moved the sights (I know I'd moved them _a
lot_ more than usual for windage etc) to try and compensate and also
moved my grip ... consequently, with all the settings out, I just kept
chasing the sights, then my hand, and the out of true settings .. no
wonder my shots were a tad random! I think my neck troubles were an
unfortunate coincidence which I inadvertantly used to explain it away
to myself.
After the dozen dozen I tried different hand positions, and have found
I can 'move' the arrows on the target just by applying pressures
differently, which is natural. But now it's controllable and a lot
less random. I now seem to have a natural, (probably the good coaching
from fellow club members) pretty neutral (I think) hand position, as
Austin and TheGrid have said with three fingers making a bunched fist,
and with my first finger sort of pointing forwards, so little pressure
on the bow unless I want it. I think previously I'd been moving my
hand only slightly but the effects were being magnified by the settings
being wrong, hence why I had no consistency. That and my lack of
experience and panic!!
Any road up, still early days but hopefully that little episode is now
past and I've had a good afternoons shooting with many more to come ..
till I feckup again ...
I is, for now, a happy bunny ... ;)
Brian Bailey
> > be far better off with chiropractic, osteopathy, accupuncture or
> > shiatsu.
> Had a session at an Acupuncturist (whatever!) and didn't initially feel
> anything. Plus I have a healthy scepticism of 'weird stuff' ... but a
> few days later and my neck is feeling better. ;)
After several unpleasant experiences with conventional medicine I now have
an unhealthy scepticism of all therapy where doctors are involved, if you
see what I mean. My own GP is very cynical regarding surgeons and says
that they like to improve on nature. 'Wierd stuff'?? Well, I'll put it
this way, in my own personal, practical experience, which is not
insubstantial, many of the practitioners have a greater in depth knowledge
and understanding of anatomy than most physios.
> Notalot. but enough to notice. I'm going to leave off anything for a
> week, see what happens, then have another stab ... ;)
Err, that was a pun, perhaps? 8-)
> > However, what I am coming round to is that I chose a Hoyt bow and,
> > from my perspective, couldn't believe how badly ergonomically
> > designed the bow grip was. I stress, that is just my opinion, for my
> > purposes only, with my particular anatomy.
> Reason I chose a Hoyt Helix was 'cos I tried someone else's at the club
> and it just 'fell to hand' .. felt immediately comfortable and just
> plain 'right'. I was initially going for a Nexus, but the Helix came
> up almost new on ebay, so I jumped .. ;)
Fairynuff. My own bow grip just just would not 'centre' predictably every
time and having looked at the issue a bit more came to the conclusion that
there was no clearly defined 'centre', kind of thing.
>
> > Nonetheless, getting one of the Hoyt replacement grips and filing and
> > sanding madly, but very carefully and intelligently, produced a grip
> > which made a very significant difference to my shooting and which to
> > some significant extent accommodated the vagaries of my various
> > injuries and my particular anatomy. A custom made grip might also be
> > an option for you to consider.
> We've got an Ortho grip ordered and another sp[are that i can fettle if
> necessary .. for the price if it doesn't work I don't mind, and I can
> just flog 'em on ebay ... ;)
> > If you had a copy of the excellent book 'Archery Anatomy' to hand
> > whilst carefully considering the above you just might benefit
> > enormously. I did!
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Archery-Anatomy-Introduction-Techniques-Performa
> nce/dp/0285632655 on it's way .. ;)
Well done. 8-)
> > My very best wishes. I hope you get it sorted.
> Cheers.
Cheers, also.
Austin Shackles
<notchec...@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>Any road up, still early days but hopefully that little episode is now
>past and I've had a good afternoons shooting with many more to come ..
>till I feckup again ...
Oh, you will...
you'll find in general that the arrows are less forgiving than ally ones.
Good shots are better, poor shots worse.
well, that's what I found, anyway. But what do I know?