Cobalt Canopy Opinions
GM
opinions on its flight characteristics before purchase. I am unable to demo
one in Scotland so would appreciateany advice from other owners in
comparison to Stilletos or Sabres.
I currently own a PD Sabre 150 and have done about 150 of my 200 jumps on
it.
Graeme
tbos...@onyx.boisestate.edu
> I was thinking of purchasing a cobalt 135 canopy but would like some
> opinions on its flight characteristics before purchase. I am unable to demo
> one in Scotland so would appreciateany advice from other owners in
> comparison to Stilletos or Sabres.
I'm guessing a 135 wouldn't be too much different than
your sabre. By downsizing you will feel more responsiveness
from your canopy, and by going to cobalt you will have slow,
sweet openings. It won't turn as fast as a stilleto (what
does?).
--
Shane
Mark
I myself was jumping a Sabre 150 when I tried out other canopies
for downsizing. I flew both a Cobalt 135 and a Stiletto 135. The
Cobalt never gave me quite what I was looking for in an opening or
flight characteristics.(Cobalts need a higher wing loading to perform
the way they are designed). I probably was not wingloading enough.
Never the less, I found the Stiletto to give me everything I wanted in
a canopy, nice openings,(great for video flyers), great response in
the air, and awesome swooping capabilities. This is just my opinion,
you can take it for what it is worth.
Blue Skies, Mark
"GM" <ma...@gmac.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<lYn89.574$FT5.30...@news-text.cableinet.net>...
ajroq
If you have experience and want swoops and high speed, charge the cobalt
high loaded more than 1.7
If you want calm, safe jumps and low stress jump the cobalt lower loaded
I have two Atair canopies, one 85 (2.1) for radical flares and landings and
other 120 (1.48) that for jump in all other times.
Both Atair canopies open safe and soft, flying and landing great and safe
in all situations
Roq
GM <ma...@gmac.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lYn89.574$FT5.30...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Rich M
news:lYn89.574$FT5.30...@news-text.cableinet.net:
Well worth a post to www.dropzone.com forums as team Atair swoop regularly
post there:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?forum=4;
Rich M
Skydiver
last i heard, a cobalt canopy is made from pisa zero-p material which
tends to tire after about 500 jumps. atair wants you to load their
canopies rather high, which will tire the canopy out faster anyway.
that on top of the fact that there are no cross-ports on the end cells
(the way their two-stage deployment works) makes me think of the
cobalt as the double diamond of death. i know a few people who have
put a few hundred jumps on the cobalt and none of them seemed very
impressed by it.
A.K.A. - MORK
have a stiletto 150 also.
I love them both, the cobalt opens MUCH better than the stiletto. more on
heading, softer....much better surf, but that is probably because I'm loading
the cobalt 120 at about 1.8:1 and the stiletto 150 much less.
I love mine
The above message is "MY OPINION" and nothing more ( no claim to be fact!)
D something or other & S/L JM,SCR #14280, SCS# 8041
BLUE SKIES!!!
remove "no-spam" to reply
Larry Pennington
good swoop get a Cobalt. I have put over 600 jumps on a 105 loaded 2:1 and
it still lands be great. But I do take care of my equipment. i.e. pack in
the shade keep sweat off of the center cell etc..... As for the Double
Diamond of death remark maybe you need to stay on the Blue runs for a
while longer........
Larry Pennington
Skydive Suffolk Inc.
www.skydivesuffolk.com
--
"Skydiver" <freefl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d762fc7a.02082...@posting.google.com...
Rich Orford
>
> If you want a parachute that opens soft ( 600-900 ft) packs easy and gives a
> good swoop get a Cobalt.
Crossfire Crossfire Crossfire :o)
GM
jump experience level :-)
Graeme
"Rich Orford" <ri...@mimesweeper.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3D6361AB...@mimesweeper.nospam.com...
Rich Orford
>
> I think a crossfire loaded at 1.4 might be just a little too hot for my 200
> jump experience level :-)
>
Doh I missed that bit sorry
--
W Faulkner
GM <ma...@gmac.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>I was thinking of purchasing a cobalt 135 canopy but would like some
>opinions on its flight characteristics before purchase. I am unable to demo
>one in Scotland so would appreciateany advice from other owners in
>comparison to Stilletos or Sabres.
We have a whole bunch of them on my drop zone - they're quite popular. I've
owned an 85 and a 75 and love them both. Nice openings, easy to pack, the
fabric doesn't wear out faster despite rumors to the contrary. They seem to
fly well at quite a variety of wing-loadings. And the price is good too!
W
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Wendy Faulkner Don't knock on Death's door.
faul...@eco.utexas.edu Ring the bell and run away.
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner He hates that.
JDub
>
> last i heard, a cobalt canopy is made from pisa zero-p material which
> tends to tire after about 500 jumps. atair wants you to load their
> canopies rather high, which will tire the canopy out faster anyway.
> that on top of the fact that there are no cross-ports on the end cells
> (the way their two-stage deployment works) makes me think of the
> cobalt as the double diamond of death.
What a bunch on nonsense. Are you a PD dealer? ;-)
The material holds up just fine, though like any other canopy, it'll need to
be relined a few times if you're going to get thousands of jumps out of it.
The crossporting design makes them safer, not more dangerous. With this
design, the center cells open first, making an off heading opening much less
likely than on any other highly loaded canopy I've ever jumped. It's rock
solid in turbulence, unlike some of the (fully) crossported elipticals we've
all heard about.
Finally, you don't have to load them high. They are a high performance
canopy at high wing loadings, but also fly well at modest wingloadings.
I absolutely love mine, it flys better than any of the comparably loaded
canopies I've jumped: Crossfire, Vengeance, Stiletto, and Heatwave. I can't
compare it to crossbraced models, because the sizes I've tried were too big.
-Josh
ajroq
Textiles-South Afrique (not PISA fabric, because the PISA don't make fabric
that I know), equal the fabric of cobalt, and it canopie it is in very good
conditions capable more than 1000 jumps!!!.
Roq
Larry Pennington <la...@skydivesuffolk.com> wrote in message
news:um5v7ut...@corp.supernews.com...
Geoff
135, and Safire 129 as previous canopies. It's by far the easiest landing
canopy I've ever jumped, despite downsizing. Amazingly responsive and
rigid-feeling (fnarr fnarr). The flare power is just huge. Good glide. Very
soft openings (occasionally slow enough to get you nervous, but I prefer
that to the odd slam). A Cobalt will definitely turn faster and dive more
than a Sabre or even a Safire - more like a Stiletto, so be careful.
Thoroughly recommended, though i haven't tried larger sizes / lower wing
loadings.
Geoff
"GM" <ma...@gmac.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lYn89.574$FT5.30...@news-text.cableinet.net...
GM
"Geoff" <ge...@dropzone.keepyourspam.com> wrote in message
news:ak0o9a$rg2$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
GM
Thanks, Graeme
"JDub" <jwhip...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:geQ89.20158$aA.6547@sccrnsc02...
JDub
> What is your wingloading?
>
> Thanks, Graeme
I jump a 95, and a 105 regularly. I've also jumped the 120.
2.0, 1.85, 1.6 respectively.
-Josh
Geoff
I should say that although I recommend the Cobalt as a high quality
well-designed product, I don't know you or canopy skills, so I can't really
make any recommendation as to whether it's suitable for you. Atair claim
that at lower wing loadings, it's a good substitute for a Safire or Sabre2.
I dunno about that, but at higher loadings it's definitely more in the class
of a Stiletto or Crossfire.
Geoff
"GM" <ma...@gmac.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ir099.3329$xZ6.50...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Ya, It's me...
It won't turn as fast as a stilleto (what
> does?).
believe it oer not, my batwing 116's turn faster than my stiletto
107's (loaded at 1.68 vs. 1.82)
Ya, It's me...
> hey,
>
> last i heard,
ya, last you HEARD...
>a cobalt canopy is made from pisa
bzzzttttttt.......wrong
>zero-p material which
> tends to tire after about 500 jumps.
wrong again
>atair wants you to load their
> canopies rather high, which will tire the canopy out faster anyway.
> that on top of the fact that there are no cross-ports on the end cells
> (the way their two-stage deployment works) makes me think of the
> cobalt as the double diamond of death.
your opinion, i like the openings on the staged opening. ill have to
look at my viper next time i jump it, i seem to remember only the
sides of cells 3/4 and 6/7 (the center 3 cells) werent crossported,
but i think the rest all are. then again , maybe its built a bit
different than the viper that way.
>i know a few people who have
> put a few hundred jumps on the cobalt and none of them seemed very
> impressed by it.
what do they usually jump? what is their usual wingloading and the
cobalts? cross braced? if so no comparison, nothings going to impress
them like a crossbraced canopy.
dude, youre intitled to yer own opinions, but where do you get your
info from? the material kicks ass, easy to pack, same shit
viper/contrail, alphas, and all wintech products were made from,
dosent wear out any quicker or slower than that slippery eel snot
stuff pd and other manufacturers use.
btw, yours is the first bad review that ive heard of about a
cobalt.....
no im not trying to push the canopy, i dont even have one or have
anything to do with it.....i just get annoyed every time someone
thinks vipers, alphas, cobalts and the like have something to do with
pisa.......i think its something to do with that special that ran a
long time ago selling a tempo reserve with a viper main canopy.
Mark from Oz.
I have jumped ;)
-Mark.
"Ya, It's me..." <sky_p...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:f86972cd.02082...@posting.google.com...
GM
give me advice and asked me to consult my local STA. In my case the closest
I have got is the CCI at my DZ who has never really heard of a cobalt
because not many people in the uk jump them.
Graeme
"Geoff" <ge...@dropzone.keepyourspam.com> wrote in message
news:ak395q$70l$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Skydog
I do not know your experience level, weight etc.........
But here is briefly the info I have.
Wingloading
1.2 - 1.4 Intermediate (whatever that means)
1.4 - 1.6 Int/Experienced
1.6 - 1.8 Experienced
1.8 - 2.2 Swoop Pilots
This is a very rough and ready guide. I do have charts and tables available
but wont be able to access them until after the weekend.
Bryn
"GM" <ma...@gmac.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Cql99.4636$Vm3.59...@news-text.cableinet.net...
daniel preston
i have never visited rec.skydiving, although i am a very active
participant in the forums on www.dropzone.com ...only so many hours
in the day.
in reference to the negative post:
all atair z-p canopies are manufactured from gelvenor zp. it is by far
the best material we have ever tested. it is a perfect square weave,
and the only material we know coated on both sides. additionally is
does not use the super slipery dupont silicone, but instead a
beautiful coating engineered by gelvenor. there is an old rumor that
gelvenor fabric does not last as long as u.s. sources. this rumor came
about because roughly 7 years ago aerodyne got a hold of an improperly
calenderized batch of gelvenor fabric. the problem was not caught in
qc and aerodyne built and shiped about 60 triathalons, which later had
to be recalled. gelvenor shortly thereafter constructed a brand new
line for manufacturing zp. we have used their material for 6 years and
it is definately superior to the domestic u.s. material. when we tried
u.s. material it averaged 18% containing defects. we have been told pd
has had even higher averages. gelvenor is less than 1% to our door.
anyway our current in house high time canopy is an impulse (also
called an alpha in the states and it is going strong with 3800 jumps,
4 line changes and it still takes 4 min+ to trip a porosity meter!)
crossports: there are several design aspects of the cobalt that create
its unique staged openings. controlling the conductance of the
crossports, airfoil and planform design, and to a much lower degree
the slider (cobalts size 65 to 150 all use exactly the same slider
size !). with staged openings the leading edge of the canopy is always
straight. center 3 cells opening first and the the remaining 3 cells
on either side unroll from a slight nose under position from the
center towards the end cells. this design makes for canopies that are
far safer to deploy at high speeds and open on heading, not being
prone to spinning. when the center 3 cells open you only have the
force of 3 cells pushing your slider down instead of the entire canopy
inflated into a distorted viloently snaking shape. the canopy remains
with the slider up for a period of time until the 3 cells decelerate
you to a point where the slider can come down allowing the remaining
cells to inflate. staged openings on the cobalt were designed and
tested with the most sophisticated dataloggers in the industry
(http://www.extremefly.com/aerospace/products/DAS/SDAS.html ) . we
have datalogged live test jumps up to 256 mph. we routinely
demonstrate standing and head down deployments at speeds that would
kill you under competing canopies. videos can be viewed at
http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/press/multimedia.html
light wingloading: cobalts have an extremely wide loading range. on
the high side they can still generate positive lift in a flare @ 4.5#
/ ' loading and the same canopy can be an excellent begineers canopy
at 1.2#. we have an exemplary track record with begineers under our
space canopy and now with our cobalt. the space canopy is identical to
our high performance alpha (predecessor to the cobalt). at loadings
under 1.4 we believe the cobalt to be a superior choice over a sabre,
sabre2, hornet or safire. cobalts are more efficient wings tham these
canopies and for equal foward speed will need to be loaded .2#
heavier. i.e. if you are safe & comfortable at 1.0 on a sabre you will
be safe & comfortable on a cobalt @ 1.2. cobalts are not fast canopies
and have the highest measured glide ratio of any skydiving canopy.
whereas the flare is much more powerful than the above canopies the
turning speed of a cobalt is faster.
i hope that answered some questions.
there is a huge amount of information posted on our web site @
www.extremefly.com
and posts on dropzone.com are checked and responded to often.
be safe.
sincerely,
daniel preston
atair aerodynamics <><>
JDub
> I emailed atair about wing loadings and experience level. They refused to
> give me advice and asked me to consult my local STA. In my case the
closest
> I have got is the CCI at my DZ who has never really heard of a cobalt
> because not many people in the uk jump them.
From ATAIR's website (www.extremefly.com):
What's the recommended wing loading on a Cobalt?
The Cobalt canopy is an extremely efficient wing. It has the highest
measured glide ratio of any skydiving canopy. The extra lift makes for a
canopy that flies 'bigger'. To get equal forward speed when comparing to
many other canopies you need to load the Cobalt heavier, i.e. 1#/' on a
Sabre should be compared to 1.2#/' on a cobalt.
1.2-1.4 beginners
1.4-1.6 intermediate
1.6-1.8 high
1.8-2.2 pro
2.2-2.8 extreme
max tested landed wingload 3.6#
NOTE: due to the efficiency of the Cobalt wing, most experienced jumpers
will jump a Cobalt 1-2 sizes smaller than competing canopies.
CAUTION: the above are general guidelines of where other Atair canopy owners
are loading. It is not our intent to make recommendations to anyone without
knowing them and their skills first hand. For a firm recommendation please
consult your local Safety and Training Officer or instructor.
A.K.A. - MORK
>will jump a Cobalt 1-2 sizes smaller than competing canopies
I will agree with that, I jumped a stiletto 150, and liked it, then worked
down to demoing 135s and that would be where I was comfy at the time. now I
jump a Cobalt 120... now about 300 jumps later I may go down in the 105 range,
but really don't see the need for it, the 120 treats me great... very fast
turns, nice surfs... (for the non-pro like me) and even nice straight in
approaches...
daniel preston
> I emailed atair about wing loadings and experience level. They refused to
> give me advice and asked me to consult my local STA. In my case the closest
> I have got is the CCI at my DZ who has never really heard of a cobalt
> because not many people in the uk jump them.
>
> Graeme
dear graeme,
loading recommendations are posted on our web site.
unlike most manufacturers loading charts which are downplayed for
liability reasons, we provide a truthfull chart representing what most
our customers fall into. our stock reply to email requests on loading
is to view the chart on our web site faq section, use them as a
general guidline taking your final advice from a local sta who is
familiar with your flying and suggest that if you have any further
questions to contact the office via telephone and speak with dan (me).
understand that we get at least 10 emails a day from people that go
sort of like this:
hey atair, i've been jumping a safire 169 do you think the cobalt 135
is ok for me? -skygoo
no, name, no phone #, no mention of experience: number of jumps on
current canopy, no exit weight, nada. and from experience it takes at
least 2 emails to extract that information from them. i would rather
spend my time designing canopies.
sincerely,
dan<><>
atair aerodynamics
www.extremefly.com
LORD OF THE SKY
LORD OF THE SKY
walked across the keyboard. LOL!
LORD OF THE SKY <lord...@ellijay.com> wrote in message
news:ak6n0...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Buzz
> I was thinking of purchasing a cobalt 135 canopy but would like some
> opinions on its flight characteristics before purchase. I am unable to
demo
> one in Scotland so would appreciateany advice from other owners in
> comparison to Stilletos or Sabres.
>
> I currently own a PD Sabre 150 and have done about 150 of my 200 jumps on
> it.
>
> Graeme
>
>
We seem to be missing the obvious point in that at 200 jumps you probably
arent experienced enough to downsize to a higher performance canopy.
I have 800 jumps, 300 on a Jonathan 150 @1.6, then upsized to a Sabre170
@1.4 on wich i hvae done 200.
Unless you are outperforming your canopy why downsize?
Just my ?2 worth.
Buzz
Rich M
news:711eed15.02082...@posting.google.com:
> hi everyone,
>
> i have never visited rec.skydiving, although i am a very active
> participant in the forums on www.dropzone.com ...only so many hours
> in the day.
>
<snip>
>
> be safe.
>
> sincerely,
>
> daniel preston
> atair aerodynamics <><>
Dan, thanks for visiting. Very useful information on a canopy that isn't
well known in the U.K.
Rich M
John Jordan
you wish), but is 600-900ft (mentioned earlier as possible opening
time of a Cobalt) rather a long time ? If you are opening at 2500ft,
then 1600ft is where you would normally be fully open, and therefore
it could be the earliest height that you may notice a malfunction. I
have not really ever payed too much attention to how long my Sabre
takes to get fully open, but I reckon most times its within 400-500ft,
and I reckon I would not fancy giving up another 500ft every jump ? My
sabre never cracks open and its usually comfortable, so what is the
upside to having a real sniveler of an opening ? I can see a downside.
Did I totally miss the point ?
Kriszilla
high-performance canopies are known for their long openings.
Beginner/intermediate canopies like the Spectre and Sabre2 also have snivelly
openings.
In my case, I jump a Stiletto which can take from 500-700 feet to open. I just
bump up my wave-off altitude to 3K and all is good. I have plenty of time to
deal with any issue that may arise.
If I'm at a large boogie where the opening altitude is 2500 max (like the WFFC
was, but they seem to have relaxed on this a bit this year) then I just pack my
canopy to open faster. I had no problems pitching at 2500 and usually ended up
being under canopy by 1900-2000 feet.
Your best bet, at your experience level, would be to bump your opening altitude
up to 3000-3500 feet. Just make sure that it's ok with the DZ's policies and
that the people on the load with you know what your opening altitude is going
to be.
Kris
In article <e8b6bb1c.02082...@posting.google.com>,
Jo...@airspeed.co.uk says...
GM
"Mark" <skydi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd2168ae.02082...@posting.google.com...
> Graeme,
>
> I myself was jumping a Sabre 150 when I tried out other canopies
> for downsizing. I flew both a Cobalt 135 and a Stiletto 135. The
> Cobalt never gave me quite what I was looking for in an opening or
> flight characteristics.(Cobalts need a higher wing loading to perform
> the way they are designed). I probably was not wingloading enough.
> Never the less, I found the Stiletto to give me everything I wanted in
> a canopy, nice openings,(great for video flyers), great response in
> the air, and awesome swooping capabilities. This is just my opinion,
> you can take it for what it is worth.
> Blue Skies, Mark
Rich M
news:e8b6bb1c.02082...@posting.google.com:
My Crossfire takes about 1000ft to open so I throw my pilot chute at about
3100ft to compensate.
Rich M
Dave Miller
John Jordan asked:
> My sabre never cracks open and its usually comfortable, so what is the
> upside to having a real sniveler of an opening ? I can see a downside.
>
> Did I totally miss the point ?
The upside to "a real sniveler of an opening" and the point of Cobalt's slow
opening characteristics (I believe) is that if you are head down and have a
premature deployment, a full canopy "NOW" may not be a good thing. A slow
opening may prevent damage to you and your gear.
Dave Miller
daniel preston
my c6 was fractured on a deployment by a sabre. this was before i even
learned to freefly at higher speeds. i was miserable for 5 months but
was very lucky not to have wound up worse or to have my vertebrea
fused. i know of many people in identical situations that did not fare
as well.
i have no problem with a canopy that takes 800-1000' to open. simply
deploy at 3000-3500.
some notes on cobalt deployments:
the second you deploy you will have 3 cells inflated above your head.
this looks quite different from a snivelling canopy. you are not
spending 5 seconds wondering if you canopy will open. if you see a 3
cells flying with a slider above your head the canopy WILL open.
additionally, if you did go low and need the canopy to open faster,
you can always speed up the deployment by slightly pulling your rear
risers. this will abort the pause between stage 1 and stage 2. pulling
the rears will instantly bring your slider down.
sincerely,
daniel preston
atair aerodynamics <><>
www.extremefly.com
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>John Jordan asked:
>> > My sabre never cracks open and its usually comfortable
>so what is the
>> > upside to having a real sniveler of an opening ? I can see a downside.
> Did I totally miss the point ?
>
don't open in a track or head down and their is no point....yer reserve shud be
cut, trimed & packed to open under 500 ft.(most of the time;), so don't go
low.....go to reserve if yew do and have a snivily main
and their is no point. Gear dealers deal in fear!...its all about training,
training training, thinking out the dive and pratice of BEP that should be the
only point;-*
~All living holds suffering
Misery stops when greed stops~
tbos...@onyx.boisestate.edu
> don't open in a track or head down and their is no point....yer reserve shud be
> cut, trimed & packed to open under 500 ft.(most of the time;), so don't go
> low.....go to reserve if yew do and have a snivily main
> and their is no point. Gear dealers deal in fear!...its all about training,
> training training, thinking out the dive and pratice of BEP that should be the
> only point;-*
Closing loops break, bridles become exposed to high speed air,
things happen. Training doesn't prevent those incidents from
occuring.
People will track, people will fly head down. I think the
Cobalt is very cool.
--
Shane
jsk
tbos...@onyx.boisestate.edu wrote:
>
> O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann <to...@aol.com> wrote:
> > don't open in a track or head down and their is no point....yer reserve shud be
> > cut, trimed & packed to open under 500 ft.(most of the time;), so don't go
> > low.....go to reserve if yew do and have a snivily main
> > and their is no point. Gear dealers deal in fear!...its all about training,
> > training training, thinking out the dive and pratice of BEP that should be the
> > only point;-*
>
> Closing loops break, bridles become exposed to high speed air,
> things happen. Training doesn't prevent those incidents from
> occuring.
>
Doesn't happen in Snuffy's world.
> People will track, people will fly head down.
Doesn't happen in Snuffy's world. He even admitted a while back that he
doesn't actually know how to track.
;-)
> --
> Shane
Tom B
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann wrote in message
<20020827101550...@mb-dh.aol.com>...
>>so what is the
>>> > upside to having a real sniveler of an opening ? I can see a downside.
>
>> Did I totally miss the point ?
>>
>
>don't open in a track or head down and their is no point....
I can see Snuffy never jumped a Monarch a lot. :)
Tom B
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>don't open in a track or head down and their is no point....
>
>I can see Snuffy never jumped a Monarch a lot. :)
>
>Tom B
>
>
>
on our pickup tailgates in a circle around the packing tarp watching the last
guy to finish...our favorite past time wuz goosing him in the ass while he
tried to bag that damn monarch. (((Poof))) !@#$%....we never tired of the game!
0~;>
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>Closing loops break, bridles become exposed to high speed air,
>things happen. Training doesn't prevent those incidents from
>occuring.
>
>People will track, people will fly head down. I think the
>Cobalt is very cool.
>--
>Shane
>
>
inattention to detail shows lack of training IMHO........150 pushups ;-*
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
> things happen. Training doesn't prevent >those incidents from
>occuring.
>Doesn't happen in Snuffy's world.
>
damn right, we were trained by pre USPA2000 standards....having flat packed
100's of canopys and proven we cud inspect gear, comb velcro, remove clean and
replace our own cables plus make closing loops just to get off student status
Not much slipped by us.
>Doesn't happen in Snuffy's world. He even admitted a while back that he
>doesn't actually know how to track.
>;-)
Tracking was a survival tool in those days
being on 8, 16 & 20 ways just off student status....down was the only safe
space,
onlyst problem was meeting th turbine on landing approach! ;)P
tbos...@onyx.boisestate.edu
65......66........67... ugggh, I give up
--
Shane
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>
>inattention to detail shows lack of training IMHO........150 pushups ;-*
>
Given.
Please, once again relate to us the simple detail of arranging for one
limb canopy controlability and how proper training might affect
possible outcomes.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>inattention to detail shows lack of training >IMHO........150 pushups ;-*
>
>65......66........67... ugggh, I give up
>--
>Shane
ring the bell sweety ;-*
Tom B
Jerry K. wrote in message
<7F2C661E327D4FDC.4343CCEA...@lp.airnews.net>...
>On 27 Aug 2002 19:57:34 GMT, to...@aol.com (O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann )
>wrote:
>>inattention to detail shows lack of training IMHO........150 pushups ;-*
>Please, once again relate to us the simple detail of arranging for one
>limb canopy controlability and how proper training might affect
>possible outcomes.
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
Jerry, I often pay more attention to people that have learned lessons the
hard way, than those that heard about them once. Snuffy learned the hard way
on that one. He has related the story several times on the ng. Despite your
frequent attention to his posts, it seems you have missed it. Wonder how?
Tom B
Jerry K.
Who's talking about lessons learned? It was a simple question
regarding the importance of attention to detail.
But, since you brought up his own hard lesson, it is enough to suggest
the irony of someone who, by his own account, was the recipient and
practitioner of superior training to the point of being able to
determine what constitutes training and the lack thereof, having a
history of demonstrating his own personal training's lack.
Along with that, despite my frequent attention to his posts, I still
realize that inattention to detail can show a lack of training.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>Jerry K. wrote
>>Please, once again relate to us the simple detail of arranging for one
>>limb canopy controlability and how >>proper training might affect
>>possible outcomes.
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>Jerry, I often pay more attention to people that have learned lessons the
>hard way, than those that heard about them once. Snuffy learned the hard way
>on that one. He has related the story several times on the ng. Despite your
>frequent attention to his posts
>it seems you have missed it. Wonder how?
>
>Tom B
>
uh he's kinda dense tom ;)
Tom B
Jerry K. wrote in message
>
>Who's talking about lessons learned? It was a simple question
>regarding the importance of attention to detail.
>
>But, since you brought up his own hard lesson, it is enough to suggest
>the irony of someone who, by his own account, was the recipient and
>practitioner of superior training to the point of being able to
>determine what constitutes training and the lack thereof, having a
>history of demonstrating his own personal training's lack.
Jerry, after you have a blowout, I hope you get just a little slack during
your recovery. His strength of will and personal fortitude are clear,
despite being a Texican. Just making the effort to make that single jump
shows more drive and courage than I have seen evidenced in 99% of the rec,
including me. Was it wise? Obviously not. Could it have been done better?
Sure. But it was done, and that alone is amazing.
Tom B
Jerry K.
<nospam...@aol.com_nospam> wrote:
>
>Jerry, after you have a blowout, I hope you get just a little slack during
>your recovery.
Is that what you call it? A blowout? Call it what you will and
splitting hairs, perhaps - but could not this "blowout" be a simile
for fuckup?
Now you want to start cutting slack based on (gad) emotion? You find
him pitiful? I don't even think that.
Whether I get this slack or not is neither here nor there but a
difference between this future "blowout" of mine and this past
"blowout" of his would be I imagine, a tendency to not, rationlize
away its significance, blame others and circumstance for my
circumstance, and a distinct lack of hubris.
>His strength of will and personal fortitude are clear,
>despite being a Texican.
This may well be true, strength of will, personal fortitude, and all
of that if you set aside his self-consciousness towards being
scrutinized in person by other skydivers and, of course, the fact that
he is not really from Texas.
>Just making the effort to make that single jump
>shows more drive and courage than I have seen evidenced in 99% of the rec,
>including me.
Oh, I'm not discounting drive and courage - I can appreciate that but
I do cast the proverbial jaundiced eye at what was evidenced as a
certain inability to think it through coupled with a great ability
towards knowing it all, or at least - asserting it.
So, tell me how what one writes on an electronic newsgroup about one's
self or others could be ever evidenced as "drive and courage."
-No shit, man! There I was - staring death in the fucking eye! But,
I faced that death, I stared it down!
But, then - there was that other time, pinned down under that deadly
hail of nip fire.
>Was it wise? Obviously not. Could it have been done better?
>Sure. But it was done, and that alone is amazing.
>
Given (for the sake of the argument) everything which he asserts about
himself to be true, that he failed to think it through, that is truly
amazing.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>Jerry K.
>Jerry, after you have a blowout, I hope you get just a little slack during
>your recovery. His strength of will and personal fortitude are clear,
>despite being a Texican. Just making the effort to make that single jump
>shows more drive and courage than I have seen evidenced in 99% of the rec,
>including me. Was it wise? Obviously not. Could it have been done better?
>Sure. But it was done, and that alone is amazing.
>
>Tom B
>
>
using the dink for a benchmark of American youth, if our generation had been
like that...not only would the Soviet Union still exsist but the USA would be
one of its satalite states. 0~~;->
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>
>>
>using the dink for a benchmark of American youth, if our generation had been
>like that...not only would the Soviet Union still exsist but the USA would be
>one of its satalite states. 0~~;->
>
Yeas, it is clear that at if a previous generation had also posted
such electronic sedition with this single person on this lone
electronic newsgroup, why - Western Civilization as we know it would
now be gone. Vanished!
But, using mister outlaw, badass, pretend to be from Texas skydiver
for a benchmark of American youth, if his generation had all been like
that...not only would the PRC, Cuba, North Korea, still be in
existance but the USA would have become a politically correct, media
and litigation driven country that might even have once waged an
unsuccessful war in Indochina.
As if he has anything to do with skydiving.
...bsrp
...jlk
Mr. Anonymous
>Closing loops break, bridles become >exposed to high speed air, things
>happen. Training doesn't prevent those >incidents from
>occuring.
ahhhh but training does, a well trained skydiver can i.d. weak closing loops
and
wud be combing hiz velcro on ROL and actually using BOC for head down, then
again it might be more related to being cheap rather than ill trained although
both are related....it all leads to human error and training cuts that down.
Its all related, Got that? No? WELL GET IT OR DIE OF STUPIDY USPA2000 SHEEP!
;)Pfffft
O--- :)~
Mr. Anonymous
>--
>Shane
>
Its all related....to-------->TRAINING! ;-*
O--- :)~
Mr. Anonymous
>>like that...not only would the Soviet Union still exsist but the USA would
>be one of its satalite states. 0~~;->
>
>Yeas, it is clear that at if a previous >generation had also posted
>such electronic sedition with this single >person on this lone
>electronic newsgroup, why - Western >Civilization as we know it would
>now be gone. Vanished!
I think yer gitting the point now wuss boy,
If the USSR had overcame us.... The USPA wud still be jumping rounds....no need
for Cobalts cuz #1 their system inhibited R&D so none of yew mainstream
poooossy's wud be jumping,
kin't hook turn one and theirs not enuff money in strut hanging for ya nor is
it worth blowing yer dainty little knee's and ego's out....so I guess this mess
in America is all the last hard generations fault....we did all the bleeding
while the nation did away with the draft and raised greedy long haired
pooosssssy boys! ;-*
O--- :)~
Mr. Anonymous
>Please, once again relate to us the >simple detail of arranging for one
>limb canopy controlability and how >proper training might affect
>possible outcomes.
>.bsrp
>...jlk
sure....if I hadda stuck to the old training regime, I wudda hung in the
harness at the loft and checked my toggle/brake
adjustments till they were the right reach for one arm operation. Theirs wisdom
in the old ways..but I needed that jump bad!
The sport had already gone to hell so I didn't need to come back and watch its
dieing gasps anway. Eiher way I got what I needed.....ONE MO JUMP!
Bwoooooohahahahaha ;)P
O--- :)~
Dr Groove
Nice to see that such a simple questions has sparked such a broad reaction.
As some one who has been intimate with the cobalt's when they came out and
has flown MANY other canopies I can attest to the softness of the opening
and the safety of the swoops. The canopies "glide" well. There is something
to be said for them as an introductory to elliptical canopies. I have asked
to demo the newer version of the Cobalt's but to no avail from Atair.
I have found that the real deal is in the rigid wing. I currently own an
older style air locked canopy, The Samurai and a Stiletto, both are 120's.
<BTW the cobalt was also a 120, I weigh in at about 195-200lbs> To make a
comparison between the three manufactures I have to say than I have had the
best performance out of the BirAir Sportz Samurai. I say this objectively
and in consideration of what other people have told me how the canopies look
coming in from a variety of approaches under varying conditions. The one
thing the Samurai does that the others don't is that it does not accordion
in adverse conditions. This is what you want a wing to do. I believe rigid
wing will perform better. I have no scientific data to point to, just my
personal experience with the three products. I am not a sponsored jumper on
a team who is supposed to say good things. Just a crack head who cant get
enough canopy time.
The real thing to keep in mind is that you have to find something that you
like, and learn to fly the shit out of it. You will know when your abilities
out reach the performance possibilities of what you are under, then make an
educated move. Demo allot of canopies. Make a lot of jumps on the demos.
Really know what you are getting in to and be certain that you are making a
good decision for you.
Dr_Groove
D-23206
3D#14
Padalcek
"W Faulkner" <faul...@eco.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:ak060m$jap$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> We have a whole bunch of them on my drop zone - they're quite popular.
I've
> owned an 85 and a 75 and love them both. Nice openings, easy to pack, the
> fabric doesn't wear out faster despite rumors to the contrary. They seem
to
> fly well at quite a variety of wing-loadings. And the price is good too!
>
> W
>
i'm still wondering where i could find a demo in florida though. everybody's
willing to sell you one but no one has the demo. what's up with that?
--
Padalcek, CCO
(chief complaints officer)
HF #17
D-23938
www.theflyinghellfish.com
I think therefore I am ... confused.
JDub
"Padalcek" <pher...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> i'm still wondering where i could find a demo in florida though.
everybody's
> willing to sell you one but no one has the demo. what's up with that?
You can download a demo request form at:
http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/
-Josh
Jeff Saxton
In article <Xns92771D...@216.166.71.234>,
r.moulto...@btinternet.com says...
>
>Jo...@airspeed.co.uk (John Jordan) wrote in
>news:e8b6bb1c.02082...@posting.google.com:
>
>> I do not have a lot of jumps (so ignore a possible stupid question if
>> you wish), but is 600-900ft (mentioned earlier as possible opening
>> time of a Cobalt) rather a long time ? If you are opening at 2500ft,
>> then 1600ft is where you would normally be fully open, and therefore
>> it could be the earliest height that you may notice a malfunction. I
>> have not really ever payed too much attention to how long my Sabre
>> takes to get fully open, but I reckon most times its within 400-500ft,
>> and I reckon I would not fancy giving up another 500ft every jump ? My
>> sabre never cracks open and its usually comfortable, so what is the
>> upside to having a real sniveler of an opening ? I can see a downside.
>>
>> Did I totally miss the point ?
>
>My Crossfire takes about 1000ft to open so I throw my pilot chute at about
>3100ft to compensate.
>
>Rich M
A.K.A. - MORK
>Cobalts are probably not great canopys if you are in the base a lot.
>
>
why? does being in the base lower the recommend canopy deployment altitudes?
I think some people confuse the part about having an open canopy by 2000 (or
2500 in this post) as Wave at 2000, reach and pull... putting main canopy
deployment closer to 1600 .... if your cobalt, or spectre, or tri, or FX
or....or .....or snivels a little bit... then you just have to adjust your
deployment alti. but I'm guessing if you are flying a high performance
canopy, you probably enjoy the canopy ride enough to open higher ...to have
more fun with it any how
The above message is "MY OPINION" and nothing more ( no claim to be fact!)
D something or other & S/L JM,SCR #14280, SCS# 8041
BLUE SKIES!!!
remove "no-spam" to reply
Mr. Anonymous
>
used to be a frick flyer on here called Chewy little britch's he sed the real
action Jackson skate board crowd wuz
tracking upwards and throwing out with cobalts....if yer not doing droopy
drawers shit and breaking off below 3000 AGL or if yer tracking upwards from
any altitude by any chance I rukun yew'll be ok unfokking believable ;)P
Jury man O--- :)~
tbos...@mail.boisestate.edu
> I think some people confuse the part about having an open canopy by 2000 (or
> 2500 in this post) as Wave at 2000, reach and pull... putting main canopy
> deployment closer to 1600 .... if your cobalt, or spectre, or tri, or FX
> or....or .....or snivels a little bit... then you just have to adjust your
> deployment alti. but I'm guessing if you are flying a high performance
> canopy, you probably enjoy the canopy ride enough to open higher ...to have
> more fun with it any how
True, true, true... but... I consistantly get 1500'ers
on the tandems. It IS soft, but kinda funky. You just
sit there and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait and
watch your alti. They have a great glide, I must say.
--
Shane