Why Hop-n-Pop?
Ryan Leveque
jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
hop-n-pop. My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
down. What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
on my limited observations and conversations with other students). Add
the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder, and you have
to do this in an unfamiliar(and very easily unstable)body position
within 5 seconds. Also, why is the jump done at such a low altitude?
If the answer is, "So it is more realistic", then that is a joke!
Maybe we should also jump even lower and have someones size 10 up our
*ss to make it more realistic. This altitude obviously gives you much
less time to deal with a malfunction. In my world, this jump puts a
student at a fairly high risk of having a malfunction. I believe this
jump is probably safe and easy for a person with more experience. So
why not wait until a skydiver has approx. 20 jumps before doing a
hop-n-pop? So, what is more dangerous, many inexperienced students
doing hop-n-pops, or students with less than 20 jumps, jumping from a
plane going down(unlikely)and being injured/killed because they lacked
emergency skills due to the fact they didn't do a hop-n-pop? I'll
probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop. So what do the
experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this? Ryan
Da Rev
Negative effect of learning by AFF? (whatda ya think Snuf?)
Start out really high, and subsequently be afraid of low altitudes?
Static line (like me) Starts low, and just gets better....
my 2 cents, whadaya'll think?
Da Rev
"Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
Livendive
have died doing their first hop & pop?
Blues,
Dave
(That hook didn't hurt a bit...I swear!)
Ryan Leveque <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
Bubba
> jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
> supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
Sniveling coward comes to mind... For all you AFF types remember to throw
harder when doing Hop-n-Pops (especially from10.5)
Bubba
CRWMike
risk with such dangerously low altitudes. It is absurd, stupid and
dangerous.
Blooze,
Michael
D-6139
Mo ghile mear
>Negative effect of learning by AFF? >(whatda ya think Snuf?)
>Start out really high, and subsequently be >afraid of low altitudes?
>Static line (like me) Starts low, and just >gets better....
>my 2 cents, whadaya'll think?
yuh they need to keep the hop & pop in the programs specially now that S/L is
about ded. Just to see if the little geeks can pull below 5K, pull for
theirselves and handle the dynamics of subterminal pulls. PLUS IT SKURS THEM!
HOOYAH hehe BSBD :->
are gone
ohm ohm ohm
Special ALF9 :->
Falco98
martin?
~Mike
Ryan Leveque wrote in message
<27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com>...
tcfoster
but that just increases the excitement heh.
If you want do a bunch of poised exits until you are confidant, then do the
hop-n-Pops. The first one is from 5500 anyhow.
The Hop-n-Pops are no big deal. Just do a good exit and throw out your Pilot
Chute. You will do fine.
tcfoster
"Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
freeflyer
>
> As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
> jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
> supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> hop-n-pop. My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
> a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
> down. What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
> only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
> on my limited observations and conversations with other students).
> So what do the
> experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this? Ryan
I think the AFF program should work harder on teaching its
students to exit a plane stable.
Imo, if you can't get stable within 5 seconds of leaving the
plane, hell if you can't get stable
_right_out_of_the_plane_, then you have no business being a
novice (that's the current term, right?). You should still
be with a JM until you can.
--
Espen
ALF#1
Mo ghile mear
I see the whine level of AFF/S hazzn't gone down any lower sniker sniker :-*
JimBo
>From: freeflyer free...@start.no
>Ryan Leveque wrote:
>>
>> As a newbie to skydiving,
> I have only jumped six times.
I'm wondering why you didnt send this to the USPA , so they could print it in
the front of the magazine with all the other questions and stuff from the
dumbasses.
jim
D-10154
2XXL Triathlons
retired hoe
the leave me alone, just wanna jump guy.< per Snuffy >
Man small , why fall ? Skies call, thats all.
Andy
graduate, but we don't put them out too low. Usually they get 4 or 5000
feet. IMHO, putting students out at 2 or 3000 feet is a disaster waiting to
happen. But I do think students should have some experience deploying
sub-terminal. It seems like having them do a hop 'n pop from 5000 feet is a
reasonable compromise.
Da Rev <isky...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:tmc1uh3...@corp.supernews.com...
freeflyer
>
> >Subject: Re: Why Hop-n-Pop?
> >From: freeflyer free...@start.no
>
> >Ryan Leveque wrote:
> >>
> >> As a newbie to skydiving,
>
> > I have only jumped six times.
You're losing it, just like Snuffy. I didn't write either of
those things :o)
> I'm wondering why you didnt send this to the USPA , so they could print it in
> the front of the magazine with all the other questions and stuff from the
> dumbasses.
LOL! So true!!!!
freeflyer
>
> IMHO, putting students out at 2 or 3000 feet is a disaster waiting to
> happen.
Yeah, that's why we have so many dead students at our dz,
where we put out our SL students at 3000ft. Want me to count
the craters for you?
> But I do think students should have some experience deploying
> sub-terminal. It seems like having them do a hop 'n pop from 5000 feet is a
> reasonable compromise.
Teaching them how to exit a plane stable before letting them
do a hop'n'pop from 3,500ft is a more reasonable compromise
imo.
Mo ghile mear
>tough question. At my DZ, our solo >students do a hop 'n pop before they
>graduate, but we don't put them out too >low. Usually they get 4 or 5000
>feet. IMHO
yuh I dunno what the crying is about I been put out below 2K more than once...
2K is a little low for students & novices though, even I think that, maybe the
cessna just wuzzn't chugging right those two times or maybe my SL/JM just
wanted to see how low I'd be willing to go under a square, heh heh <:>
Alan Binnebose
--
Blue Skies,
Alan Binnebose
retired USPA member
"JimBo" <sb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010730222133...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
Kriszilla
not, you need to talk to an IAD or SL JM or I and do a poised exit or a hanging
exit. Hell, talk to a CReW dog for that matter, they can go over a hop n' pop
exit with you.
Someday you may want to make a skydive and there may be cloud cover just above
your minimum pull altitude or there may be an aircraft emergency. In both
cases, it's nice to be able to leave the airplane with immediate stability.
Asking to do a Hop n' Pop from 6K or higher is going to teach you nothing. You
need to be able to respond when the ground is a bit closer.
There's no reason that an AFF grad shouldn't be able to leave the airplane in a
stable manner and immediately deploy with stability. Whether it's hanging the
strut from a C-182 or hopping out and presenting to the wind from a King Air or
an Otter.
Hell, that's just my $0.02, flame away.
Kriszilla
IAD/JM
In article <27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com>,
ryana...@yahoo.com says...
>
>As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
>jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
>also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
<SNIP!>
Trowen
T
Mo ghile mear
>>it in the front of the magazine with all >>the other questions and stuff from
the
>> dumbasses.
>> jim
>> D-10154
>> 2XXL Triathlons
>> retired hoe
>> the leave me alone, just wanna jump guy.< per Snuffy > <--------???????????
Don't drag my name into this hoe, I Not keering if their poosays or not, the
sports beyond saving now, IMHO. BTW see a geriatic MD they got pills for this!
:-]
Kevin Keenan
good that the designers of the program knew more about skydiving than you
do ?
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, in you status as a
student, your choice of opinions should be pretty much confined to whether
you want to jump or go bowling. If you want to go bowling, then go. If
you want to jump, please shut the fuck up and listen to your instructors.
It sounds like you are not comfortable with the fact that there may be
some risk associated with jumping.
The "unlikely" event of jump planes coming down is very real, and if you
aren't able to leave the door safely at any altitude above 1000 ft., you
are a danger to yourself and everyone else on the aircraft.
kevin
Ryan Leveque wrote:
> As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times.
> So what do the experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about
> this? Ryan
[K]rak
<tcfo...@home.com> wrote:
> I did the AFF program so I know how to be stable. Yes the ground is closer
> but that just increases the excitement heh.
>
> If you want do a bunch of poised exits until you are confidant, then do the
> hop-n-Pops. The first one is from 5500 anyhow.
First one is from 5,500????
:looks @ logbook:
Jump # : 11
Place : Crosskeys
Aircraft : King Air
Altitude : 3,500
Delay : 5 seconds
hmmm.....me thinks different DZ's have different altitudes for Hop & Pop's???
BTW, I distinctly remember a few things about this jump....
1) thought it was REALLY REALLY low, and I was nervous as hell...
2) IT WAS FUN FUN FUN
[K]
> The Hop-n-Pops are no big deal. Just do a good exit and throw out your Pilot
> Chute. You will do fine.
<snip>
Andy
teaching students to exit stable than AFF. I'm sure there are no craters at
your DZ. Didn't mean to upset you...
freeflyer <free...@start.no> wrote in message
news:3B661670...@start.no...
QSpoT
way. Get air anyway you can!!
Q
--
"fly this girl as high as you can into the wild blue, set me free Lord I
pray, closer to heaven above, closer to me" -The Dixie Chicks
_______________________________
"Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
tcfoster
A License Category F
Clear and Pull (5500)
Clear and Pull (3500)
You would do the 5500 first of course. I know I did.
tcfoster
"[K]rak" <rais...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:raisplin-300...@207-172-223-96.s350.tnt3.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn.
com...
Brothermuff65
step out the door and pull your pilot chute like you always do and toss it like
you always do same thing only lower 5000 ft is plenty high i know my fist hop &
pop was 3500 ft ( first freefall) after training on static line go for it &
have fun they know what they are talking about so just relax & stop trying to
find fault with a well established training course as they know more about it
then you do so have fun and jump
[K]rak
<tcfo...@home.com> wrote:
> From USPA A License Proficiency Card and Application
>
> A License Category F
>
> Clear and Pull (5500)
> Clear and Pull (3500)
>
> You would do the 5500 first of course. I know I did.
>
> tcfoster
Ahhh.....hmmm......that that new card I see everyone with?
<snip>
[K]
Darin Ninness
> As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
And in the grand tradition of rec.skydiving, whereupon we eat our young, you
have just put on the meat jumpsuit and leapt into the lion's cage. Six
jumps indeed.
Go back and think about that statement. "I have only jumped six times." A
*real* skydiver would say "I have six jumps." <GRIN> (that was a joke).
> jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
> supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> hop-n-pop. My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
> a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
down.
Six jumps haven't taught you much more than the fact that immediately after
exit, there is a planet directly below you that you will eventually slam
into with a great deal of force if you don't do what you were taught to do.
I would think "Avoiding a dirt nap" is a fundamental, sure. But there is a
LOT more to this sport than those six jumps have shown you thus far.
> What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
> only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
> on my limited observations and conversations with other students).
OK, so let's follow you logic a little (flawed as it is). I was a six-jump
static line student on my first clear-and-pull. Six jumps in which all I had
to do was demonstrate an ability to let go of a plane while the dope-rope
did the work. (yeah, sure, I was doing PRCPs at the same time, but I'm
living proof that the ability to grab a simulated ripcord does not translate
to the ability to find the *real thing* when the time comes) At least
you've had three solo exits where you have 9000 ft or so to get stable and
find the handle. So, to follow your logic, exiting a 182 at 3,500 ft on
your first freefall, which also happens to be a hop-n-pop, sounds like it
should be the biggest fataility-inducing thing since the introduction of the
hook turn.
yes, your observations are limited (of course). And your fellow students
(with, what, 25, 30 jumps between all of you?) do not represent exactly the
largest pool of experience. There are these guys called "instructors" and
"jumpmasters" who should be your _first_ stop for questions like this.
Hell, not even the hacks on rec.skydiving are always to be trusted. :)
> Add the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder, and you have
> to do this in an unfamiliar(and very easily unstable)body position
> within 5 seconds. Also, why is the jump done at such a low altitude?
Define low altitude. From what I understand, AFF clear & pulls are done
from like 5 grand. LOW ALTITUDE? are you nuts? Has this whole sport gone
mental when 5,000 ft is considered low altitude? Holy cow, kid, you've got
DAYS to get stable and pull from that altitude. Christ, pull a full style
set. Yeesh. If you wanted to be in the saddle by 3K, you've still got
15-ish seconds to get stable and pull. If you can't get stable and pull in
15 seconds, well, you need to go find yourself an nice custom-drilled AMF
Nighthawk with a bag and a towel. Trade 10K for 10 pins and be done with
it.
> If the answer is, "So it is more realistic", then that is a joke!
> Maybe we should also jump even lower and have someones size 10 up our
> *ss to make it more realistic. This altitude obviously gives you much
> less time to deal with a malfunction. In my world, this jump puts a
> student at a fairly high risk of having a malfunction. I believe this
> jump is probably safe and easy for a person with more experience. So
Nope, the answer is not "more realistic." Doing a hop 'n pop from 5 grand
bears no resemblance to an emergency exit, or anything else. That is a
carnival ride, not a training evolution. Sheesh. Oh, and I just remembered
something from my AFF training: you give the "Five-five" signal at 5500 ft
and then pull at 4,000 ft, right? What do you do in that 1500 ft? Stare at
the altimeter and hope like hell that you don't go unstable at pull time?
You concentrate on your body position, think about the pull (arm over your
head, remember?), etc. Its the same deal if you bang out of the plane at
five grand. Get stable, check your altimeter, concentrate on the pull.
Sheesh.
> why not wait until a skydiver has approx. 20 jumps before doing a
> hop-n-pop? So, what is more dangerous, many inexperienced students
> doing hop-n-pops, or students with less than 20 jumps, jumping from a
> plane going down(unlikely)and being injured/killed because they lacked
> emergency skills due to the fact they didn't do a hop-n-pop?
Why not do it on jump #7? If you put it off in the training program till
jump #20, some future PBA champ will come along and say "Oh my god, I can't
believe they have you do something so dangerous on jump 20!"
They always give you that "in case the plane goes down" excuse, but its
really to see how well you react with ol' mother earth right in your face,
IMHO. If you get an awful case of the knock-knees at 5 grand, how are you
going to perform when you chop a malfunction at 1600 ft and the planet is
getting REALLY BIG? You gonna lock up with ground rush? Bummer. If this
concept is really bugging you, remember that bowling balls don't malfunction
(just the ball return and the pinsetters).
> I'll probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop. So what do the
> experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this?
I think they oughta require a whole _series_ of hop-n-pops in AFF. And the
hell with that 5,000 ft crap. 3,500 ft, baby!
Although I think that this is why I get peculiar looks at the DZ when the
ceiling is at 3000 ft, the AFF grads are bemoaning the weather and I'm
saying "Alright, hop-n-pops!"
Go do you hop-n-pop and quit yer bitchin'. Sheesh.
NIN
D-19617
(flames to /dev/null, thanks!)
Floater
> also taught me important fundamental skills.
Have they taught you how to exit stable? If not, you haven't learned an
important fundemental skill.
But the next jump I am
> supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> hop-n-pop.
Probably seems absurd because you are scared. Have you thought maybe
skydiving may not be for you?
My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
> a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
> down.
Thats only one reason. Another is to give you a sense of what the ground
looks like in the event (or rather "when") you find yourself low for the
first time.
What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
> only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
> on my limited observations and conversations with other students).
You just said you had 6 jumps. So you are twice as experieced as they are.
Add
> the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder,
No you don't. Just give it a good hard toss like you should have been doing
all along. (Assuming thats the type of deployment system you were trained
on).
and you have
> to do this in an unfamiliar(and very easily unstable)body position
> within 5 seconds.
Relax Ryan, you have aver 30 seconds before impact from 5500 ft. Whats the
real problem?
Also, why is the jump done at such a low altitude?
Errr Ryan, thats not low.
> If the answer is, "So it is more realistic", then that is a joke!
> Maybe we should also jump even lower and have someones size 10 up our
> *ss to make it more realistic.
Now that would be dangerous because their size 10 could cause an
entanglement with the pc or bridle.
This altitude obviously gives you much
> less time to deal with a malfunction. In my world, this jump puts a
> student at a fairly high risk of having a malfunction.
Why do you believe you have a greater risk of a malfunction on a lower
altitude jump than any other?
I believe this
> jump is probably safe and easy for a person with more experience. So
> why not wait until a skydiver has approx. 20 jumps before doing a
> hop-n-pop? So, what is more dangerous, many inexperienced students
> doing hop-n-pops, or students with less than 20 jumps, jumping from a
> plane going down(unlikely)and being injured/killed because they lacked
> emergency skills due to the fact they didn't do a hop-n-pop? I'll
> probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop. So what do the
> experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this? Ryan
>
I don't think you really want to know what we think, Ryan.
Hint: It rhymes with Lucy.
John
Mike Spurgeon
>
> I hear bowling is nice.
Yeah. It's always done from the same altitude...
Mike Spurgeon
>
> Although I think that this is why I get peculiar looks at the DZ when the
> ceiling is at 3000 ft, the AFF grads are bemoaning the weather and I'm
> saying "Alright, hop-n-pops!"
If you can't do a 4-way exit from 3000', you are just too new and
inexperienced...
kevin
"A passenger-parachutist stated she had exited the cabin and was on
the jump platform preparing to jump from about 3,500 feet when the
left wing and nose dropped and the aircraft entered a spin to the
left. After an unknown number of revolutions she jumped from the
aircraft and deployed her chute. "
Would you still be bitching about having to have done a Hop-n-pop????
Shag E
pilot is yelling get the fuck out?
hop n pop. or i like to refer them as " jump n dump" is fun as hell, I LOVE
getting out low. adds to the adrenalin kick. if yer afraid of a hop n pop
from 3000 feet, you need to take up golf and get out of skydiving.
[]D [] []V[] []D
Brien K. Meehan
All negative feedback aside, this is a wise decision. Don't hurry into
doing anything in this sport. Get the information and skill you need to do
it safely first. If it takes 50 jumps before you're able to do a hop-n-pop,
then go have a great 50th jump!
rmehler
Ryan Leveque wrote:. So what do the
> experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this? Ryan
That you're either a whiny AFF weenie or a much better than average
troll writer.
RM
D-21473, JM '01
Chris
"CRWMike" <CRW...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B660D17...@Bellsouth.net...
> I've never understood why they require this. They are putting students at
> risk with such dangerously low altitudes. It is absurd, stupid and
> dangerous.
>
> Blooze,
>
> Michael
> D-6139
>
>
>
>
>
> Ryan Leveque wrote:
>
> > As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
> > jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> > also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
> > supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> > hop-n-pop. My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
> > a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
> > down. What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
> > only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
> > on my limited observations and conversations with other students). Add
> > the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder, and you have
> > to do this in an unfamiliar(and very easily unstable)body position
> > within 5 seconds. Also, why is the jump done at such a low altitude?
> > If the answer is, "So it is more realistic", then that is a joke!
> > Maybe we should also jump even lower and have someones size 10 up our
> > *ss to make it more realistic. This altitude obviously gives you much
> > less time to deal with a malfunction. In my world, this jump puts a
> > student at a fairly high risk of having a malfunction. I believe this
> > jump is probably safe and easy for a person with more experience. So
> > why not wait until a skydiver has approx. 20 jumps before doing a
> > hop-n-pop? So, what is more dangerous, many inexperienced students
> > doing hop-n-pops, or students with less than 20 jumps, jumping from a
> > plane going down(unlikely)and being injured/killed because they lacked
> > emergency skills due to the fact they didn't do a hop-n-pop? I'll
> > probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop. So what do the
Mo ghile mear
WOOWAH yer funny dude, I admired yer AFF vs SL cumback also. Witty & very droll
as only SL/pigs can be, quick witt must be caused by O2 content down lower blue
skys :-* snuffy
Povl H. Pedersen
I guess this is a typo ? Should be hop-n-pop from 2000 ft ?
(Lowest legal altitude to be under a parachute at is 600 meters in
Denmark, 1968 ft). Never been much under 2k ft myself. But been
doing it on the edge of a thunderstorm (counted 10+ lightnings
on the way down), which might have been slightly stupid.
Just tell the pilot to not lower the speed at exit time, as you
want the horizontal speed as well to help the canopy to open.
--
Povl H. Pedersen - I hate spam, and so does ab...@whitehouse.gov
Position: N 56 09 37 - E 010 12 29
Lucky Dave
final jump before you are off student status. It's at 2500 feet.
The main aim's are (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, count on
it):
to be confident that you can get out low, if an emergency happens, you
will be better able to deal with it.
to be cleared to do hop and pops when the weather is poor and there
are no lifts going high
The reason it's done at 2500 feet, rather than 4500 or 6500 is that
the pressure of the low altitude is what you are preparing for. Doing
a hop and pop at 6500 feet does not show that you can deal with
pressure.
If you do not feel able to safely do your hop an pop talk to your JM.
Perhaps get practice at a higher altitude.
In skydiving things go wrong. You deal with them by practicing
emergency procedures and by staying calm. If you can exit stable at
altitude, but not at 2500, what's going to happen the first time you
have to deal with a malfunction.
BTW If you cannot exit stable at altitude, you have no business doing
a 2500 hop and pop.
The AFF hop and pop has been moved up as the students are not used to
seeing the ground so close 8-)
Blues,
Lucky Dave.
Disclaimer - The above is, as always, my opinion only. If you make any
life critical decision based on what you read on the news groups then
you are in for a Darwin award.
On 30 Jul 2001 18:11:47 -0700, ryana...@yahoo.com (Ryan Leveque)
wrote:
>As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
>jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
>also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
>supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
>hop-n-pop. My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
>a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
>down. What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
>only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
>on my limited observations and conversations with other students). Add
>the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder, and you have
>to do this in an unfamiliar(and very easily unstable)body position
>within 5 seconds. Also, why is the jump done at such a low altitude?
>If the answer is, "So it is more realistic", then that is a joke!
>Maybe we should also jump even lower and have someones size 10 up our
>*ss to make it more realistic. This altitude obviously gives you much
>less time to deal with a malfunction. In my world, this jump puts a
>student at a fairly high risk of having a malfunction. I believe this
>jump is probably safe and easy for a person with more experience. So
>why not wait until a skydiver has approx. 20 jumps before doing a
>hop-n-pop? So, what is more dangerous, many inexperienced students
>doing hop-n-pops, or students with less than 20 jumps, jumping from a
>plane going down(unlikely)and being injured/killed because they lacked
>emergency skills due to the fact they didn't do a hop-n-pop? I'll
>probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop. So what do the
michael clifford
stable into the relative wind needed for a hop-and-pop are used in RW,
CRW, and demos on almost every jump. Quit crying and do it. Jeez! Regards,
Mike Clifford - jumper since 1962. ( FYI - 1000 feet is a low altitude,
4000 feet is high)
Povl H. Pedersen
Chris <bi...@gates.com> wrote:
>Yeah, we should get him to do CrEW @ 2500 if he really wants to be scared.
Oh noo, not CReW. Even the AFF instructors are afraid of that.
After having learned CReW I wonder why it scares experienced
skydivers so much.
Mo ghile mear
>wrote:
>>PUSSY.
>Povl wrote:
>I guess this is a typo ? Should be hop-n-pop from 2000 ft ?
>(Lowest legal altitude to be under a parachute at is 600 meters in
>Denmark, 1968 ft).
>Never been much under 2k ft myself.
LEGAL? I wud rather be judged in court
than burnt alive just off the runway or be just a crater in a field, we were
taught its possible to get canoy with yer reserve from 500 ' AGL in the old
days and went thru exit drills for it. But they don't drill novices on B.E.P
till they puke anymore do they?
Not being USPA anymore I kin admit to
500 emergency, 800 twice (traffic),1000' jump runs regularly, 1500 (emergency),
mostly 1800 terminal cuz 2000 is hard to hit. I don't reccomend it to modern
skydivers though yer canopys & packing techniques suck might snivel on ya! :->
freeflyer
>
> I will be the first to admit that the SL program does a better job of
> teaching students to exit stable than AFF.
Actually, it looks like AFF doesn't do it _at_all_.
> I'm sure there are no craters at
> your DZ. Didn't mean to upset you...
Oh, I'm not upset, it takes a lot more than that. And you're
right, there aren't any craters there. A couple of deep
pivots, but no craters :o)
Povl H. Pedersen
>LEGAL? I wud rather be judged in court
>than burnt alive just off the runway or be just a crater in a field, we were
>taught its possible to get canoy with yer reserve from 500 ' AGL in the old
>days and went thru exit drills for it. But they don't drill novices on B.E.P
>till they puke anymore do they?
>Not being USPA anymore I kin admit to
>500 emergency, 800 twice (traffic),1000' jump runs regularly, 1500 (emergency),
>mostly 1800 terminal cuz 2000 is hard to hit. I don't reccomend it to modern
>skydivers though yer canopys & packing techniques suck might snivel on ya! :->
Anything that saves your life will most likely clear you in court.
So emergency exits are OK. Depending on the situation, I might even
go lower than 500 ft on my reserve. The russians are training for
100 m = 330 ft jumps using round parachutes and S/L.
It is something I consider trying if I ever get over there.
A good aircraft with a high exit speed should be great for this.
PS: We where dropping S/L students off the tailgate of an
Antonov-28 last week. The students were VERY happy. This
was one day only, and then back to the Islander.
Mo ghile mear
>>500 emergency, 800 twice (traffic),1000' >jump runs regularly, 1500
>(emergency),
coyote explains the woppers :) the 800's were terminal the others were
subterminal.
>I might even
>go lower than 500 ft on my reserve.
>The russians are training for
>100 m = 330 ft jumps using round >parachutes and S/L.
>It is something I consider trying if I ever >get over there.
is yer reserve a round? Emergency thinking should be approached with your
normal reserve in mind. 330ft? Depending on the pilot, aircraft personel gear &
load it might pay to ride 330ft down. Gotta follow the pilots orders in an
emegency anyway, I rode a 182 in once, good pilot & only 3 jumpers belted in
tightly per BSR's on the little sucker...we did ok. The point is thinking out
your options, knowing your equipment, options & drilling, for god sakes don't
panic and throw the aircrafts c.g. off in a scramble, the suckers allready not
flying right, don't flip her over! :->
Ryan Leveque
whether you agree with me or not, thanks! I certainly don't claim to
know much about skydiving. I just made an observation and wanted to
see what others with more knowledge thought about it. Didn't know
there were so many Smart-Asses in this sport until now! Ryan
Mo ghile mear
>Didn't know
>there were so many Smart-Asses in this sport until now! Ryan
Think positive, at least yer learning something from the Ng. kid. <:>
Floater
"Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
frost
Floater wrote some stuff:
>
> "Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
> > As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
> > jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> > also taught me important fundamental skills.
>
> Have they taught you how to exit stable? If not, you haven't learned an
> important fundemental skill.
Let me guess, John, you passed your AFF in one day and did 2 levels per
jump?
> But the next jump I am
> > supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> > hop-n-pop.
>
> Probably seems absurd because you are scared. Have you thought maybe
> skydiving may not be for you?
Wow, I am amazed that you were not nervous at all! Not even a little?
Wow! I think if this guy did 6 jumps skydiving is as much for him as it
is for you. You ever heard of the sky that is open for everyone?
> Add
> > the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder,
>
> No you don't. Just give it a good hard toss like you should have been doing
> all along. (Assuming thats the type of deployment system you were trained
> on).
It really makes a lot of difference how hard you "toss" a piece of cloth
at a 120+ miles an hour? Kinda like spitting out of a really fast
moving car.
> Relax Ryan, you have aver 30 seconds before impact from 5500 ft. Whats the
> real problem?
Ah, impact is the key word here. You wanna pull just a bit higher, no?
> I don't think you really want to know what we think, Ryan.
> Hint: It rhymes with Lucy.
Hey, everybody loves Lucy! What do you mean? :)
--
Michael Shatalov
USPA B-24090
82nd 1995-99
ii
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no free fall from the sky only freedom to open your parachute"
Mo ghile mears alter ego
>6 jumps
>I have to hop & pop <boohoo boohoo>
loddi doddy potty sez:
> Relax Ryan, you have over 30 seconds >>before impact from 5500 ft. Whats the
>> real problem?
Mr. fixit sez: Its all in yer mind, this proceedure might save your life one
day kid, kint handle the pressure? not being able to handle pressure kills in
this sport
SO QUIT! <:>
(_?_) ohm ohm ohm
swivel that head sheep!!
frost
Mo ghile mears alter ego
>Hehe, sorry, Sir I didnt say that, Floater >John said it :)
>
yuh I know but I cuddn't find hiz post in the archives so I went to my other
account and quoted off yours. Ask JK/dink & ALF#1.
I kin git really artistic with quoting and it seems to make young people rather
nervous heh heh blue skys :)~
Jerry K.
musta been mighty heavy for you to blowoff your attendance forever.
...bsrp
...jlk
On 31 Jul 2001 23:24:40 GMT, seamus...@aol.com (Mo ghile mears
Jerry K.
people actually write to suit his own ends. Goebbels was a
bunker-hunkerer, too.
...bsrp
...jlk
On 31 Jul 2001 23:45:26 GMT, seamus...@aol.com (Mo ghile mears
Lord Phoenix
If you can't turn 4 points between 3k and 2k you have no business jumping!!!
fallin...@hotmail.com
>hop n pop. or i like to refer them as " jump n dump" >[]D [] []V[] []D
>
Hop n pop
clear n pull
jump n jerk
leap n yank
exit n extract
flail n fling
go n throw
out n out
--chris
Fastsftail
>supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
>hop-n-pop
>a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
>down.
that has nothing to do with it. it's real purpose is to bring you to the sad
conclusion that youre just a whinning pussy boy.
freeflyer
Does "ejaculate n evacuate" fit in there somewhere? <g>
freeflyer
>
> I just made an observation and wanted to
> see what others with more knowledge thought about it. Didn't know
> there were so many Smart-Asses in this sport until now! Ryan
It has nothing to do with being smart-asses. It's just that
a lot of old timers don't really appreciate someone with 6
jumps telling them that something needs fixing with
skydiving. They'd rather you jump for five years and then
work to change it. You really don't know enough yet to talk
about what's "wrong" or "right".
Try telling someone that "I have 6 jumps and this is so
dangerous I think AADs should be mandated". That should give
you some fun conversation. Oh, sorry, you only have six
jumps so you probably call it a CYPRES ;o)
Oh, _I_ am a smart-ass btw. I was talking about the others
who responded :o)
Darin Ninness
Dude, that ain't this sport.. that's rec.skydiving. Remember what I said
about the 'meat jumpsuit' and the lion's cage.
NIN
D-19617
D15159
>jumps so you probably call it a CYPRES ;o)
No, Cypress ;-)
freeflyer
Doh! You are ofcourse correct Sir :o)
murph
If you have to ask this question you would not have been graduated when I
did AFF*
try to stay alive long enough to learn something,
obviously your instructors failed you miserably.
blue skies
-murph
*unless of course you had a lot of money, paid for each level 3-4 times,
then you would have been graduated.
You would also graduate under uspa's new minimum standards pussy-boy, thanks
for the tandem money, good luck after graduation program. then again you
might be saved by the great new coaching program.....or you might just be
very lucky.....
Floater
"frost" <nospam_...@yahoo.com_loddi_doddi_we_like_to_party> wrote in
message news:3B673C8C...@yahoo.com_loddi_doddi_we_like_to_party...
>
>
> Floater wrote some stuff:
> >
> > "Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
> > > As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
> > > jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> > > also taught me important fundamental skills.
> >
> > Have they taught you how to exit stable? If not, you haven't learned an
> > important fundemental skill.
>
> Let me guess, John, you passed your AFF in one day and did 2 levels per
> jump?
No actually I only did one jump the day I completed on level 1. However I
did level 2, 3, and 4 the next day. Got unstable on AFF 4 at pull time and
flipped over on my back. Hummed it down to 1600' before I was able to get
stable and pull. Just beat my AAD. I swear to you I was laughing at pull
time. Landed about a mile off the DZ. Damn piss poor spotting. I swore to
the JM it wouldn't happen again and offered to get him drunk, but he still
failed me.
>
> > But the next jump I am
> > > supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> > > hop-n-pop.
> >
> > Probably seems absurd because you are scared. Have you thought maybe
> > skydiving may not be for you?
>
> Wow, I am amazed that you were not nervous at all! Not even a little?
> Wow! I think if this guy did 6 jumps skydiving is as much for him as it
> is for you. You ever heard of the sky that is open for everyone?
Not the least bit nervous. See above.
>
>
> > Add
> > > the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder,
> >
> > No you don't. Just give it a good hard toss like you should have been
doing
> > all along. (Assuming thats the type of deployment system you were
trained
> > on).
>
> It really makes a lot of difference how hard you "toss" a piece of cloth
> at a 120+ miles an hour? Kinda like spitting out of a really fast
> moving car.
Actually, it does make a lot of difference how hard you toss it. You
obviously haven't had a PC stuck on the back of your neck. LOL
Floater
cypres will save him if he can't pull in time.
John
D- something
"freeflyer" <free...@start.no> wrote in message
news:3B676691...@start.no...
Axe
Does it mean you have to cutaway if you go under 600? How would you
land if you never go below under a parachute?
Remind me not to jump in Denmark.
ftrain
"Darin Ninness" <dnin...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:gPJ97.12243$bm5.4...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Ryan, listen to what Darin said. This newsgroup is NOT representative of
the sport. This is a sideshow. The real sport is the commraderie and
experiences at the dz, and the friendships that extend off of the dz. It
can be truly amazing. Life-altering, even. Don't be put off by what you
get here, as the real sport is not on a computer display.
Blue skies!
-Andy
Ivan Betts
dangerous? I am not saying that the risks can't be controlled, but the worst
case scenario can be pretty bad. A hop'n'pop from 5500 is hardly low; wait
till you have to get out of the plane at 1800 or lower - trust me it will
happen, and you will be glad of the practice at 5500 then...
Ryan Leveque <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
> As a newbie to skydiving, I have only jumped six times. All of my
> jumps have been both lots of fun and a great experience. They have
> also taught me important fundamental skills. But the next jump I am
> supposed to do seems to be absurd/stupid/dangerous, as it is a
> hop-n-pop. My understanding is that this jump is done so that you have
> a better chance of survival in the unlikely event that the plane goes
> down. What doesn't make sense is the fact that most AFF students have
> only made 3 solo exits, and some were propably unstable on exit (based
> on my limited observations and conversations with other students). Add
> the fact that you have to throw the pilot chute harder, and you have
> to do this in an unfamiliar(and very easily unstable)body position
> within 5 seconds. Also, why is the jump done at such a low altitude?
> If the answer is, "So it is more realistic", then that is a joke!
> Maybe we should also jump even lower and have someones size 10 up our
> *ss to make it more realistic. This altitude obviously gives you much
> less time to deal with a malfunction. In my world, this jump puts a
> student at a fairly high risk of having a malfunction. I believe this
> jump is probably safe and easy for a person with more experience. So
> why not wait until a skydiver has approx. 20 jumps before doing a
> hop-n-pop? So, what is more dangerous, many inexperienced students
> doing hop-n-pops, or students with less than 20 jumps, jumping from a
> plane going down(unlikely)and being injured/killed because they lacked
> emergency skills due to the fact they didn't do a hop-n-pop? I'll
> probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop. So what do the
> experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this? Ryan
freeflyer
>
> > Let me guess, John, you passed your AFF in one day and did 2 levels per
> > jump?
>
> No actually I only did one jump the day I completed on level 1. However I
> did level 2, 3, and 4 the next day. Got unstable on AFF 4 at pull time and
> flipped over on my back. Hummed it down to 1600' before I was able to get
> stable and pull. Just beat my AAD. I swear to you I was laughing at pull
> time.
"If you ain't scared you're stupid", that's what my JMs told
me. At 1600ft I don't want a student to laugh, I want him to
shit bricks.
Floater
worried about getting stable and pulling. I was laughing about doing a
somersault onto my back. Guess I had more confidence than you.
John Allen
D-something
"freeflyer" <free...@start.no> wrote in message
news:3B686BB2...@start.no...
freeflyer
>
> Hee hee my JM didn't want me to shit bricks, he wanted me to pull. I wasn't
> worried about getting stable and pulling. I was laughing about doing a
> somersault onto my back. Guess I had more confidence than you.
Or you were overconfident and didn't realize the severity of
the situation you were in.
Your call I guess.
Martin Evans
"Ryan Leveque" <ryana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27b184d8.01073...@posting.google.com...
> a plane going down(unlikely)
I'll repeat 3 times...
It's not unlikely,
it's not unlikely,
it's not unlikely.
I can tell you from personal experience that it's possible to be in three
pretty serious and potentially fatal unplanned aircraft landings, along with
a slew of emergency exit situations over a persons skydiving career (to
date)! If I were you I'd look forward to the hop'n pop while bearing in mind
that in a real aircraft emergency, it may be neccesary in order to ensure
your (and the others in the A/C with you) survival, to exit the aircraft
unstable at a much lower altitude than in this little exercise!
Sleep tight!
--
Blue ones,
Stay Safe.
Martin Evans.
For information about Sky-Eye Skydiving Services please visit our website
at:
After browsing please follow the link to Skydive Delmarva.
"Never confuse movement with action". Ernest Hemingway
Lord Phoenix
>> >
>> Hop n pop
>> clear n pull
>> jump n jerk
>> leap n yank
>> exit n extract
>> flail n fling
>> go n throw
>> out n out
>
>Does "ejaculate n evacuate" fit in there somewhere? <g>
Wrong order...
"evacuate and ejaculate"
freeflyer
>
> >Does "ejaculate n evacuate" fit in there somewhere? <g>
>
> Wrong order...
>
> "evacuate and ejaculate"
Depends on how safe you are :o)
It's actually what I used to call one of the convenience
store chains up in the Iowa area (not sure if they have them
elsewhere). It's called "Kum'n'Go". Talk about handing
people a joke on a silver platter, hehe.
James
student you normally deploy at 4000 ft (at least in Canada they do).
Considering, firstly that you'll be pulling over a 1000 feet higher, this
is allow for more time to fix any 'potential' snafu. Secondly, you
haven't reached terminal velocity so you have even more time then you
realize.
James
Dan Is
>
> I hear bowling is nice.
>
> T
>
> >So what do the
> >experienced jumpers and instructors out there think about this?
Ya, bowling IS nice and we also drink a lot of beer at the bowling
alley. I wish you guys would quite picking on us bowlers. Some of us
also like to skydive.
izzy
--
Peace & Love
Dan
USDA Zone 5
Dan Is
>
> > I'll probably do a few more jumps before I do my hop-n-pop.
>
> doing anything in this sport. Get the information and skill you need to do
> it safely first. If it takes 50 jumps before you're able to do a hop-n-pop,
> then go have a great 50th jump!
And try a few practice pulls two seconds out the door just to get the
feel of what is to come. But you will need to get comfortable exiting at
a low altitude. Some day this may come in handy.
PMAC
> >Subject: Re: Why Hop-n-Pop?
> >From: freeflyer free...@start.no
> >Ryan Leveque wrote:
> >>
> >> As a newbie to skydiving,
>
> > I have only jumped six times.
>
> the front of the magazine with all the other questions and stuff from the
> dumbasses.
>
>
>
>
> jim
> D-10154
> 2XXL Triathlons
> retired hoe
> the leave me alone, just wanna jump guy.< per Snuffy >
>
> Man small , why fall ? Skies call, thats all.
HAHAHA....LOL LOL LOL...That was funny Jim....
MarkandSonia
> > a plane going down(unlikely)
>
> I'll repeat 3 times...
>
> It's not unlikely,
> it's not unlikely,
> it's not unlikely.
Totally agree!
Nothing like sitting next to the pilot with three others getting out the
door with the last
person having their bloody D bag come out and sit on the floor in front of
you!!!!!
Scary shit to say the least!
(And I was one of the "it will never happen to me" crowd! lol!)
Mark.
Steve Martin
first start out if you decide not go through an AFF course or whatever.
My first jump was instructor assisted deployment and I've done it a few
more times as well, as build up for my first solo. 5500ft ain't so
bad... the dz I go to, first jump and reguar student jumpers start at
3500 ft... with deployment right away. No more dangerous than a freefall
from 10 000, and possibly less dangerous because of the lower descent
rate, leaving you more time to untwist those lines beneath the riser or
whatever.
russ
too low, coz you are used to jumping from at least 10000 feet,
hop-and-pops are just to get you used to exiting at lower heights,
there is no problem exiting at 5000, i don't know what u are
complianing about coz i am doing the raps course and my first freefall
was from 4000 feet, and i was doing 10 second delays from 5000, so
there is no problem doing a 5 second delay from 5000 feet.
and there is no reason for them being more dangerous than normal
jumps, you've got plenty of time from 5000!!
no sheep in Canada
>i've heard a lot of people say that aff >students are scared of getting
>too low, coz you are used to jumping >from at least 10000 feet,
>hop-and-pops are just to get you used to >exiting at lower heights,
>there is no problem exiting at 5000
<snip>
yes the USPA training programs do not seem to have the tink about this class of
JM's, for instant....tink about diss--->You
have more time to take care of buisness exiting from 5000AGL than you do
blowing through 5 grand from 10,000
feet. Hop/pop about teaching poise under assumed pressure I tinking. MAKE THEM
SWEAT! :->
Pierre NO SHOES
le NWT C180
alla foo foo
uspa bod
pecka-my-chew
Mr. MOM
>whether you agree with me or not, thanks! I certainly don't claim to
>know much about skydiving. I just made an observation and wanted to
>see what others with more knowledge thought about it. Didn't know
>there were so many Smart-Asses in this sport until now! Ryan
See that? Ya learn something new every day. Maybe you need to concentrate on
the thickness of your skin, before you worry yourself over the rediculousness
of a hop & pop.
USPA SUCKS
Blue Skys and Godspeed,
Mr. MOM
http://www.moms-skyjumping.com/
The only guarantee in Skydiving is...you WILL land !
john
russ wrote:
>
> i've heard a lot of people say that aff students are scared of getting
> too low, coz you are used to jumping from at least 10000 feet,
> hop-and-pops are just to get you used to exiting at lower heights,
> there is no problem exiting at 5000,
snip
It's a mystery to me why 7 AFF jumps should make someone scared of
exiting "low", when only 7 jumps before they weren't scared to exit when
they had never previously exited at any altitude at all.
There's lots of evidence that people with a parachute but who've never
jumped before are willing to exit a plane in distress at almost any
altitude - happens a lot with military pilots and aerobatic pilots.
What can 7 AFF jumps do to someone to install such a profound fear that
they'd rather crash with the plane than exit. A fear that will stay with
them until they are forced to make one hop&pop, which completely cures
it?
Is it just possible that this supposed AFF connection with fear of low
exits is just happenstance, and there's no real correlation or causation
at all? Of course, we'll never know all the time we're happy to rely
simply on anecdotal evidence and bonfire chat.
Vern Cole
Ryan you have more time to deal with a malfunction with a hop and pop
at three grand than you do if you had been in freefall for a minute
and open at the same altitude. You haven't hit terminal yet.
If you can't get stable on exit then you shouldn't be jumping
unassisted.
You talk about students with less than 20 jumps. I went through
student status when your only option was static line. On my 16th jump
I earned my SCR, remember those? That is the award they used to give
a jumper upon the completion of their first 8 way.
Have fun with the hop and pop. They are also fun jumps. Use the jump
to practice your accuracy.
Vern
Lord Phoenix
arquement. I'm in a hurry.
--
I am he who once was, now is not, and yet will come.
john wrote in message <3B6F2E7E...@teamfunnel.com>...
CRWMike
sounds skydivers make, but that's about it.
Bob's your Uncle
what a rant.
If you're so afraid, stay on the ground.
This type of jump is done a about the same altitude that you would
normally open, so where is less time to deal with malfunctions?
All your losing is free fall. If you're so unstable at exit time, why have
your instructors moved you through the AFF program?
Talk to the instructors, not other students, about procedure,
complications, reasons, expectations.
BTW hop and pops can be a blast.
GOTWINS1
as an "emergency bail out". Personally
if I'm in a Cessna with engine problems
and its been deemed apropriate to bail,
I don't want to be stalled even a second
by someone stuck in the door pondering
his options. Fear is not an option at that moment.
M
D16842
Then consider being the poor fool next to the pilot of an engine-less King Air
(they glide like like a rock by the way, at least compared to that Cessna),
passing the wrong way through 2000 ft, as the 10 people behind you each stop at
the door, and figure out how to do that poised exit, hop and pop thing they
never practiced? Practice it before then. Please. Like the guys said. A little
CRW training is a good thing.
Tom B
D3331
there is no time for regrets or indecision--only action."
From The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge
By Carlos Castaneda
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0520217551/ref=pd_fu_h_b_pym/002-33
09272-4715225
Steve N
D16842
>Did an emergency exit today from about 2000 ft.
>Clouds starting at 1700 ft were threatening to cancel
>our jump, but the pilot pulled up a bit, and we
>got saved from having to land by doing a clear&pull.
Don't know what happened, but if the pilot had the relative luxury of pulling
up out of clouds, I have trouble seeing the emergency here.
Tom B
Povl H. Pedersen
If the danger is having to land with the aircraft, then of
course we have an emergency. Landing with an aircraft is very
dangerous.
The pilot pulled up so as to give us the legal minimum altitude.
--
Povl H. Pedersen
D-482 - ALF#2
Cricket202
>have done my first any lower than that...because its FUCKING SCARY>>>
sounds like AFF training at its Finest!
Livendive
"shortchickny" <jcm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2e942047.01082...@posting.google.com...
> alrite, thats just mean. i am 13 jumps new to skydiving...and my
> first jump (#8) off student status was a hop&pop @ 5k...i would *not*
> have done my first any lower than that...because its FUCKING SCARY to
> be alone w/out an instructor for the first time. and u know what? i
> psyched myself out so much that i tumbled rite out of the plane, and
> it took memy FULL 5 seconds to get stable enuf to pull...
Jamie - have you read or seen anything about the S/L method of student
training? It's pretty routine to put first jump students out at 3,000 feet,
and first freefall students out (solo) at 4,000. I usually take my first
hop&pop students to 4500, but that's not a rule by any means.
>
> but u know what? every jump since...perfect exits...it just took one
> to get used to the idea of being in the sky alone...no matter what
> anyone sez...u can still be a skydiver, and be apprehensive in the
> beginning...its a healthy thing...if u get too cocky...u may end up
> dead.
Good attitude
>
> also, since i'm just setting myself up to be flamed here...i'm a
> petite woman (which so far as i've seen is unusual for the sport)...so
> go ahead guys, give it your best shot...
mmm....petite women rock! :-) Seriously though, how's your gear fit?
Wendy Faulkner might be able to give you some pointers on developing,
buying/renting gear, etc, as she's a pretty small lady herself. I don't
have her email address handy, but search Deja (now Google Groups) and you'll
find it.
>
> but to the guy who is worried about his hop&pop...its good for u to be
> nervous...but u know what? even if u pull upside down...u r most
> likely to make it thru...u r gonna be hurting...but u won't die...and
> worst comes to worst...i'm assuming u have a cypress thats gonna take
> care of u if u fall too long...just don't psych yourself out...go up
> with an instructor so u r more comfortable...
At 13 jumps you probably shouldn't be giving this type of advice.
Encouragement is one thing, encouraging pulling unstable or reliance on a
CYPRES is a totally different thing. Also, don't assume a CYPRES will "take
care of u"...it can't fix an unstable body position and is a mechanical
advice prone to failure, however rare those failures are.
>
> and btw guys...u should be ENCOURAGING...not flaming newbies...show
> them the error of their ways maybe, but don't scare them off....from
> everyone i have met so far...skydiving is as much about friendship and
> helping one another as it is about jumping out of perfectly good
> airplanes :) imho...u r not a true skydiver if you have this kind of
> attitude.
Encouragement is good. So is opening newbies' eyes to the big bad world.
Like baby birds thrown out of the nest without help and made to fly on their
own, being somewhat brutal with newbies can help keep them alert to the
hazards inherent in this sport. It's kind of like you said...get cocky and
you can die. By being hard on newbies (not always...encouragement and
instruction are necessary as well), it's possible to reduce the risk of
cockiness.
>
> there...thats my $.10 worth :) go ahead...flame away!
No need to flame, just offering a different, somewhat more experienced
perspective.
Blues to ya,
Dave
Dave Miller
thought that your CYPRES will take care of you. I am so tired of people
telling others to not be scared because your CYPRES will save you. If you
choose to wear one turn it on and forget it exists. I hope this is not
indicative of the training you got. Don't leave the plane unless You are
going to save You. Sorry, but my girlfriend had trouble getting off the rope
in her static line progression. She had great practice rip cord pulls, great
arch and was completely aware of her dives but was afraid she wouldn't pull
when it was for real. Experienced jumpers and jump masters kept telling her
"don't worry, if you don't pull, your chute will open anyway". I wanted to
kick them all in the teeth. Why would you ever put that idea in someone's
head. Don't people realize how fucked up this logic is?
Sorry little skydiver chick, I wish you the best of luck but I couldn't let
this go. The sooner you change your attitude towards AAD's the safer you
will be.
Dave Miller
"shortchickny" <jcm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> and btw guys...u should be ENCOURAGING...not flaming newbies...show
> them the error of their ways maybe, but don't scare them off....from
> everyone i have met so far...skydiving is as much about friendship and
> helping one another as it is about jumping out of perfectly good
> airplanes :) imho...u r not a true skydiver if you have this kind of
> attitude.
>
> there...thats my $.10 worth :) go ahead...flame away!
>
> peace & blue skies,
> jamie aka "little skydiver chick"
kallend
shortchickny wrote:
>
> jumpe...@cs.com (Shag E) wrote in message news:<20010731081912...@ng-cg1.news.cs.com>...
> > PUSSY. what would you do if the plane had an engine out at 1000 feet and the
> > pilot is yelling get the fuck out?
> >
> > hop n pop. or i like to refer them as " jump n dump" is fun as hell, I LOVE
> > getting out low. adds to the adrenalin kick. if yer afraid of a hop n pop
> > from 3000 feet, you need to take up golf and get out of skydiving.
> >
> > []D [] []V[] []D
>
> alrite, thats just mean. i am 13 jumps new to skydiving...and my
> first jump (#8) off student status was a hop&pop @ 5k...i would *not*
> have done my first any lower than that...because its FUCKING SCARY to
> be alone w/out an instructor for the first time. and u know what? i
> psyched myself out so much that i tumbled rite out of the plane, and
> it took memy FULL 5 seconds to get stable enuf to pull...
>
That's great. Now you've done a poised hop&pop from 5,000ft you will
have forever eliminated your fear of getting out unstable at 1,000ft in
an emergency.
Dave Miller
Dave Miller
"kallend" <kal...@mmae.iit.edu> wrote in message
news:3B82A9C8...@mmae.iit.edu...
Will Packard
<snip>
<snip>
> >
> > there...thats my $.10 worth :) go ahead...flame away!
>
> No need to flame, just offering a different, somewhat more experienced
> perspective.
Thanks, Dave. You said it much better than I would have.
Will
Livendive
"Dave Miller" <dav...@nni.com> wrote in message
news:to5ajfm...@corp.supernews.com...
<Snip>
> If you
> choose to wear one turn it on and forget it exists
<snip>
> Why would you ever put that idea in someone's
> head. Don't people realize how fucked up this logic is?
>
> Sorry <Dave>, I wish you the best of luck but I couldn't let
> this go. The sooner you change your attitude towards AAD's the safer you
> will be.
2 snips and 1 name change...not bad eh? :-)
Blues,
Dave