Molalla, OR Fatality
Darhl
kflying - remove spaces
published. Part of a 4 way, no canopies out. She had 200+ jumps.
"Darhl" <dnj...@removethis.pacifier.com> wrote:
>Any info on the fatality at Skydive Oregon, Molalla, OR?
31st Annual Lost Prairie Jumpmeet - July 25th through Aug 3.
FFI - skyd...@digisys.net
- peter
Regretwear
rick nelson
>
> Here's the local paper's report:
> http://www.oregonlive.com/todaysnews/9807/st071703.html
It was an OK article until the last paragraph.
rick
crwmike
I have no problem with the last paragraph.
BSBD,
Michael
rick nelson
"Cheating death."? GMAFB
rick
Paul Quade
rick nelson wrote:
Remember this is a quote from a skydiver new to the sport.
Paul
Renae Depuy
http://www.koin.com/news/stories/news-980718-170238.html
--
Renae Depuy
http://www.teleport.com/~depuyr/BT/
Regretwear
kr...@philly.infi.net
"Renae Depuy" <dep...@teleport.com> wrote:
> Latest news release:
>
> http://www.koin.com/news/stories/news-980718-170238.html
Oh, my lord. :(
Blue skies, Kimberly. Hopefully, you'll be a lot happier in them now.
My sympathies to all touched by this tragedy.
Blue skies, gentle breezes,
--rita
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Povl H. Pedersen
> here's todays local news report
>
> http://www.oregonian.com/todaysnews/9807/st071802.html
Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
deaths last year.
That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
real dangerous sport.
rick nelson
The report said that 31 jumpers died last year, not 31 USPA members.
There are at least as many non-USPA jumpers as there are USPA members.
rick
Elladan
Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
> RLooking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
> deaths last year.
>
> That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> real dangerous sport.
the news report also said she had 200 jumps. looking at it that way i
should have died 9 times by now.
c'mon boys and girls, this IS dangerous shit. if you skydive long enough
you or (more likely) some one you know WILL bounce.
i guess the indescribable joy we get is worth the describable pain we will
inevitably feel.
Paul Joseph D-12852
Elladan
Povl H. Pedersen wrote: Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has
33000 members, and 31
> deaths last year.
>
> That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> real dangerous sport.
the news report said the jumper had over 200 jumps. looking at it that
way, i should have died about 1800 jumps ago.
it doesn't matter how you look at it. the fact is, this IS inherently
dangerous.
if you skydive long enough, you, or(more likely) some one you know WILL
bounce. i guess the indescribable joy we do feel is worth the describable
pain we will feel(or have felt).
paul joseph D-12852
Dave Briegs
rick nelson wrote:
<snip>
> The report said that 31 jumpers died last year, not 31 USPA members.
> There are at least as many non-USPA jumpers as there are USPA members.
I find that hard to believe.
Dave
Dave Briegs
Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
> Regretwear <regre...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > here's todays local news report
> >
> > http://www.oregonian.com/todaysnews/9807/st071802.html
>
> Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
> deaths last year.
>
> That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> real dangerous sport.
ummmm...it kinda is.
It's as safe as you make it, and unfortunately, some choose not to make it
all that safe.
Dave
Kirk Wennerström
members. These are two, disparate facts. To then draw the conclusion
that you have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying is as incorrect as comparing
apples and oranges. By making that claim, you are stating that simply
being a USPA member means you have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying -
whether or not you jump out of a plane. Obviously incorrect. It
reminds me of the old saying, "Figures don't lie, but liars sure can
figure."
Let's look at the bigger picture. According to Dan Poynter's
"Parachuting - The Skydiver's Handbook", there are 110,000 people
skydiving each year in the US - 20,000 active skydivers, and 90,000
students. Together they make about 2.2 million jumps each year -
300,000 student jumps and 1.9 million experienced jumps. In 1987, there
were 29 fatalities. Divide the # of fatal jumps/# of total jumps, NOT #
of fatal jumps/# of members (See? The data doesn't match in the second
equation. # of jumps has nothing to do with the # of members. That's
why it's meaningless). So, 29 fatal jumps over 2.2 million total jumps
yields a rate of one fatality for every 76,000 jumps or so.
Hang-gliding, by comparison, has a fatality rate of one in only 2,300
flights - quite a bit more dangerous. The overall accidental death rate
in America is one in 2,600. You're probably safer skydiving than
climbing a ladder at home to fix the gutters.
31 people died skydiving? How many died skiing? (I can think of two
off the top of my head, no pun intended). Check any World Almanac for
various death rates. Again from Poynter's book:
140 deaths from SCUBA diving
856 bicycling
7,000 drowned
1,154 from bee stings (this always amazes me)
80 hit by lightening
However, these are overal numbers, not fatality rates (ie - we don't
know how many kids threw a rock at a bee hive before one was stung to
death). But it does show that all life is at risk, and I don't feel
skydiving is that much riskier than any other worthwhile activity. Our
sport is the butt of comedian's jokes because it's the only one I can
think of where YOU WILL DIE if you do nothing. Auto racing? Let go of
the wheel and close your eyes and you'll have a bad accident, but you'll
likely survive. Rock climbing? Do nothing and you'll still be on the
ground. But the moment you leave the plane, you will die unless you do
something about it (or find a convenient tall pine tree). Talk about a
leap of faith, but I do love it so!
Kirk Wennerström
A-29455
SKY...@ix.netcom.com
Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
> Regretwear <regre...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > here's todays local news report
> >
> > http://www.oregonian.com/todaysnews/9807/st071802.html
>
> Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
> deaths last year.
>
> That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> real dangerous sport.
For somebody expounding on how intelligent they are on this newsgroup
just a few weeks ago I would expect better. It's not how many jumpers
belong to USPA but how many jumps those jumpers collectively made! Did you
really overlook this point or are you just trying to sensationalize your
participation?
Blue ones.
Stay Safe.
Martin Evans.
--
"Never confuse movement with action". Ernest Hemingway
Skydddiver
>> Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
>> deaths last year.
>>
>> That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
>> real dangerous sport.
>
>ummmm...it kinda is.
>
>It's as safe as you make it, and unfortunately, some choose not to make it
>all that safe.
>
>Dave
>
>
why do people insist on using the word safe in the same sentence as skydiving.
please look up the word safe in the dictionary.
while one can reduce one's risks while skydiving, it is impossible to make
skydiving "safe."
ryan
d-14513
"Pain is nothing but weakness leaving the body."
Wils Rob
friend...nice gal..pretty.....fun....a confidante.....and I'll miss her. She
loved a good argument and she loved skydiving..and fiercely defended the
sport...She constantly tried to be better at whatever she did and sometimes
struggled...she believed in love and life....she wrote poetry...and she wrote a
short story detailing her progress from "wannabee" to actual "skydiver"...and
it's excellent....everyone should read it. (call Darrell) She had a reserve
ride the first time she jumped her own gear...and another one further down the
line...and I understand that she handled them both very well. She talked
fondly of her DZ ....and the people that she jumped with. I myself jumped with
her twice at Star, Idaho last summer during the Boise Riverfest....and I look
forward to jumping at Mollala in the near future ....just to keep in touch
with her ..so to speak....and to maybe see some of the things that she
saw....and meet some of the people that she talked about. I actually met her
on the computer..and we've been chat buddies for a couple of years now...it's
only fitting that this should be where I say goodby....
Kimberly...I for one... won't ever forget you.....and I thank you for that.
Blue Skies Forever.......
Wilson
I've been told that the funeral is at 11am at the Portland Memorial Sunset
Chapel on Tuesday ..July 21st.
skydiving
kleggo
Wils Rob <wil...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807200647...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> Kimberly...I for one... won't ever forget you.....and I thank you for
that.
>
> Blue Skies Forever.......
fuck this attitude.
let's have the
"you asshole i wanna piss on your grave" kinda stuff that was seen on this
forum when
harley killed himself last year.
well????????
kleggo
Budconner
>
>let's have the
>"you asshole i wanna piss on your grave" kinda stuff that was seen on this
>forum when
>harley killed himself last year.
>
>well????????
>kleggo
>
>
We are reserving those coments for when you go in ;)
Buddman
But seriously, kinda cold don't you think?
Dany Brooks
> > >
> > > http://www.oregonian.com/todaysnews/9807/st071802.html
> >
> > deaths last year.
> >
> > That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> > real dangerous sport.
>
> just a few weeks ago I would expect better. It's not how many jumpers
> belong to USPA but how many jumps those jumpers collectively made! Did you
> really overlook this point or are you just trying to sensationalize your
> participation?
>
> Blue ones.
> Stay Safe.
>
> Martin Evans.
>
> --
> "Never confuse movement with action". Ernest Hemingway
--------------------------------------------------
Number of skydivers, '97 = 310,000 (includes one-timers)
Skydives in 1997 = 3,250,000
Fatalities 1997 = 31
So, .98 fatalities per 100,000 skydives, or about one per 10,000
skydivers.
Dany Brooks, USPA
dog...@michiana.net
Not unless you missed his point, Buddman. Which you did.
BS,
Jeff
Winsor Naugler III
>
>
>Wils Rob <wil...@aol.com> wrote in article
><199807200647...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>> Kimberly...I for one... won't ever forget you.....and I thank you for
>that.
>>
>> Blue Skies Forever.......
>
>
>let's have the
>"you asshole i wanna piss on your grave" kinda stuff that was seen on this
>forum when
>harley killed himself last year.
>
>well????????
I'm with you.
If you want to commit suicide you should eat poison, step in front of a
train, shoot 8 bags of dope, hang yourself, slash your wrists or some other
kind of lame thing
If you use skydiving or firearms or an aircraft to do so, you are sure to
wind up on my shit list, and won't warrant a lot of sympathetic reminiscing.
If your last act is that of pissing in the soup, making life tougher for
those who survive, you can't be that concerned with public opinion after
your inglorious exit.
If the reports are accurate, Harley has company.
Blue skies,
Winsor
Scott Schnabel
Sorry...I just gotta kick in my 2 pennies...did she really auger onpurpose??
if so...that's a real shit thing to do to your kids. Hard to believe anyone
who has kids would do that....isn't there some other explanation here?
Scott
D-10977
Tom Beals
>please look up the word safe in the dictionary.
>
>while one can reduce one's risks while skydiving, it is impossible to make
>skydiving "safe."
>
>ryan
>d-14513
If you consider, from a safety oriented viewpoint, that a person
actually stands up with nothing supporting them but muscles working
against each other controlled by (they claim) the inner ear you would
immediately issue a directive that henceforth all employees would have
to lie down on the job. "Safe" is a lousy word. Try using the word
"safer". There is a great difference between those words. One is just
a dream. The other can usually, with thought and some action, be
reality.
On my job I go through this argument continually - sometimes I even
win.
Tom Beals
IDSKYDVRS
>We are reserving those coments for when you go in ;)
>
>Buddman
AMEN Buddman!!!
Flyincamra
----- Begin Included Message -----
Skydiving Fatality Ruled Probable Suicide
Family Says Woman Attempted Suicide Before
OREGON CITY, Ore., Posted 2:56 p.m. July 18, 1998 -- The death of a
Vancouver, Wash., woman in a skydiving incident near Molalla likely was a
suicide, the Clackamas County sheriff's office said Saturday. q
Kimberly Ann Powell, 35, a veteran of some 200 jumps, died Thursday when
her main and reserve chutes did not open.
A news release said the sheriff's office and the Clackamas County medical
examiner's office had investigated "and now believe Ms. Powell committed
suicide on July 16."
It said investigators had learned from friends and relatives that she had
tried suicide in the past and had talked to others about using skydiving to
do so.
It said people close to her had been contacted by her "and in hindsight,
believe these contacts were made in order to say good-bye."
A plane carrying Powell and three others took off from an airstrip owned by
Skydive Oregon west of Molalla Thursday afternoon.
The four jumped about 15 minutes later. Three of them landed safely on
Skydive Oregon's 45-acre field, but could not find Powell. They called
police after finding her body in a wheat field adjacent to the airstrip.
In a news release, the president of Skydive Oregon expressed sympathies for
Powell's family. "We skydivers are a small community of friends. For one of
our own to end their life doing what brings us such happiness is very hard
to comprehend," says Joe Weber. Previous Story
* Update: Skydiver Dies
http://www.koin.com/news/stories/news-980718-170238.html
----- End Included Message -----
Renae Depuy
exit, I believe she was looking for a release from a lot of pain and chose
skydiving because it was the only thing that had given her joy in life --
but, anger is part of grieving.
--
Renae Depuy
Refusing to live does not mean you will never die.
--
Winsor Naugler III <dog...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<6p0ng5$b...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...
> kleggo wrote in message <01bdb3f8$810cc140$4464...@craigf.cts.com>...
<snip>
> >fuck this attitude.
<snip>
> >kleggo
<snip>
> I'm with you.
<snip>
> If your last act is that of pissing in the soup, making life tougher for
> those who survive, you can't be that concerned with public opinion after
> your inglorious exit.
<snip>
> Winsor
Winsor Naugler III
>I don't think Kimberly's main concern was with "public opinion" after her
>exit, I believe she was looking for a release from a lot of pain and chose
>skydiving because it was the only thing that had given her joy in life --
>but, anger is part of grieving.
>--
If you're expecting much in the way of grief for someone who left two kids
behind while leaving a black mark on "the only thing that had given joy in
life," you're going to be disappointed.
I'll never understand the tendency of some folks to speak highly of the
dead, regardless of their merits in life. To lump together someone who died
of smoke inhalation while cowering in terror and a someone who died while
rescuing the last residents of a burning orphanage is unconscionable.
I had a friend who was stricken with terminal cancer. When it became
apparent she had lost headway against the disease, she ceased chemotherapy
and went home. She was great company, and never complained about being in
constant agony. When the point came that she could no longer function with
the ravages of the disease, and would have been subject to institutional
life support for such time as modern medicine could keep her out of the
grave, she bade her adult children farewell and overdosed.
She died as she lived, with courage and integrity, and I miss her greatly.
OTOH, the reports stemming from the incident at Molalla, OR have all pointed
to consummate indifference to the concerns of others, to include her
children and fellows in the sport of skydiving. Far from warranting grief,
such actions lead to disgust and contempt. I try to avoid dealings with
such inconsiderate, self-centered and truly destructive people -- if only
for self-preservation.
Blue skies,
Winsor
Povl H. Pedersen
> Regretwear <regre...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > here's todays local news report
> >
> > http://www.oregonian.com/todaysnews/9807/st071802.html
>
> Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
> deaths last year.
>
> That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> real dangerous sport.
I am doing a followup on myself.
I checked some more statistics I found. About 3.250.000 jumps are made
each year, 270.000 of these are first jumps (and 140k of these are
tandem).
Let us assume only half the skydivers and jumps are made by USPA
members.
We get about 50 jumps per year for an average skydiver. And then one of
every 2000 dies. That is a risk of about 1:100.000 pr. jump.
But, the fatality report for 1997 clealy shows, that of the fatalities
half the jumpers had 500+ jumps, but of the USPA members, only 40% has
500+ jumps.
So this shows that skydivers with 500+ jumps has 150% the risk of a
fatality than the skydiver with less than 500 jumps. (Many of the
experienced jumpers dying are landing errors in high-performance
chutes).
So what is the real danger here ? To me it looks like people getting
overconfident in themself, getting into a routine, or showing off.
The median (average numbers may be too skewed, so we look at the median)
is 500 jumps. But, it is also a high age of 41 years.
Now let us look at the mortality of men aged 40-45 (mortality rate
increases when age goes further up, so this is a best case). Here 2.98
deaths per 1000 capita. That is a mortality rate of 3%.
Let us do some simple untrustworthy math (calling it statistics would be
wrong):
Let us assume, that half the 500+ jump jumpers are 40+. There are 13420
of these in the USPA, so assume 25000 jumpers that are 40+. That means
15 of 25000 deaths are caused by skydiving = 0.6 of 1000. Mortality rate
for 40-45 year old males (Denmark, 1987) are 2.98 of 1000. It is assumed
the number of deaths by skydiving can be ignored in the total # of
deaths.
That means, that if you are an average skydiver between 40 and 45, you
will die in a given year, there is 80% chance of you dying by other
causes.
Or phrased in another way: It is 4 times as dangerous to live an average
life than it is to skydive.
So statistics shows us clearly, that the best way to prevent dying is
spending all you time at the dz, jumping and landing :)
Hereby is given proof that statistics can be abused, and show anything
you want.
Only thing I would consider gospel from this is, that experienced
skydivers has the highest risk.
Mike Spurgeon
>
> So what is the real danger here ? To me it looks like people getting
> overconfident in themself, getting into a routine, or showing off.
So which is it with you?
Rita
> Only thing I would consider gospel from this is, that experienced
> skydivers has the highest risk.
I would amend that just slightly, if I may?
Those who become complacent ... who take to thinking they are bullet-proof,
are the skydivers who have the highest risk. It just so happens that in most
cases, this group tends to consist of the more experienced skydiver.
Blue ones and be just a bit careful out there ... please?
--rita
cpb...@tntech.edu
crap and not out jumping!!! The only thing I'm figuring is how many jumps can
I get with the amount of money in my pocket.
-Chris Bailey
In article <1998072120203713851@[192.168.80.51]>,
po...@my.terminal.dk (Povl H. Pedersen) wrote:
> Povl H. Pedersen <po...@my.terminal.dk> wrote:
> I am doing a followup on myself.
>
> I checked some more statistics I found. About 3.250.000 jumps are made
> each year, 270.000 of these are first jumps (and 140k of these are
> tandem).
>
> Let us assume only half the skydivers and jumps are made by USPA
> members.
>
> We get about 50 jumps per year for an average skydiver. And then one of
> every 2000 dies. That is a risk of about 1:100.000 pr. jump.
>
> But, the fatality report for 1997 clealy shows, that of the fatalities
> half the jumpers had 500+ jumps, but of the USPA members, only 40% has
> 500+ jumps.
>
> So this shows that skydivers with 500+ jumps has 150% the risk of a
> fatality than the skydiver with less than 500 jumps. (Many of the
> experienced jumpers dying are landing errors in high-performance
> chutes).
>
> So what is the real danger here ? To me it looks like people getting
> overconfident in themself, getting into a routine, or showing off.
>
> The median (average numbers may be too skewed, so we look at the median)
> is 500 jumps. But, it is also a high age of 41 years.
>
> Now let us look at the mortality of men aged 40-45 (mortality rate
> increases when age goes further up, so this is a best case). Here 2.98
> deaths per 1000 capita. That is a mortality rate of 3%.
>
> Let us do some simple untrustworthy math (calling it statistics would be
> wrong):
>
> Let us assume, that half the 500+ jump jumpers are 40+. There are 13420
> of these in the USPA, so assume 25000 jumpers that are 40+. That means
> 15 of 25000 deaths are caused by skydiving = 0.6 of 1000. Mortality rate
> for 40-45 year old males (Denmark, 1987) are 2.98 of 1000. It is assumed
> the number of deaths by skydiving can be ignored in the total # of
> deaths.
>
> That means, that if you are an average skydiver between 40 and 45, you
> will die in a given year, there is 80% chance of you dying by other
> causes.
>
> Or phrased in another way: It is 4 times as dangerous to live an average
> life than it is to skydive.
>
> So statistics shows us clearly, that the best way to prevent dying is
> spending all you time at the dz, jumping and landing :)
>
> Hereby is given proof that statistics can be abused, and show anything
> you want.
>
> Only thing I would consider gospel from this is, that experienced
> skydivers has the highest risk.
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Povl H. Pedersen
> Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
>
> > Regretwear <regre...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > here's todays local news report
> > >
> > > http://www.oregonian.com/todaysnews/9807/st071802.html
> >
> > Looking at the numbers here, it says USPA has 33000 members, and 31
> > deaths last year.
> >
> > That is about 1 of 1000 dying. Looking at it this way, it looks like a
> > real dangerous sport.
>
> For somebody expounding on how intelligent they are on this newsgroup
> just a few weeks ago I would expect better. It's not how many jumpers
> belong to USPA but how many jumps those jumpers collectively made! Did you
> really overlook this point or are you just trying to sensationalize your
> participation?
Nope.
I am stil under the opinion that it really makes no difference if you
make 10 or 500 jumps that given year.
According to the stats, it is safe to assume the more experienced
skydivers has the highest risk (average in 1997 was 957 jumps, median
was 500 jumps), so the risk of a jump increases with experience it
seems, much more so than a relation to number of jumps done.
People with < 500 jumps are 60% of the USPA members, but these people
only get 40% of the accidents. I am not sure how jumps are distributed,
but I assume the experienced people do more jumps/person.
I still have the theory that there are times in your skydiving life
where you run larger risk than you do at other times.
Beginners are very carefull, then you get your own high-performance gear
and increases the risk. When you learn to fly, you are safe for some
time, then you want to show off, and risk increases. Then you ge over
it, and risk is down again. Then you might getting started with things
that can result in mid-air collisions, CRW etc.
Notice how many of this years fatalities has been experienced skydivers.
The beginners do not run the same risk. I think it is possible to pick
out some guys having a larger risk. I know one or two from the local
club that are higher-risk guys, unless they settle down with a family.
kleggo
Winsor Naugler III <dog...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<6p0ng5$b...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...
> >let's have the
> >"you asshole i wanna piss on your grave" kinda stuff that was seen on
this
> >forum when
> >harley killed himself last year.
> >
> >well????????
>
>
> I'm with you.
>
> If you want to commit suicide you should eat poison, step in front of a
> train, shoot 8 bags of dope, hang yourself, slash your wrists or some
other
> kind of lame thing
o.k. if an intelligent person such as yourself misunderstood my sarcasm
i'll expound a bit.
when i said the above i was not pounding the dead girl with black death
grimoires.
i was, perhaps foolishly, trying to get some of the less fortunate on this
forum to consider their flaming vindictive
that harley's ill chosen method of suicide invoked.
why did harley get "raked over the coals"?
why not the dead girl?
is it politically correct to black death harley, someone most of you never
met, but not to black death a pretty girl?
well ????
kleggo
Winsor Naugler III
Though I caught the sarcasm, I'm singularly unsympathetic regarding
malevolently suicidal individuals, be they georgeous babes or scruffy dudes.
I've had an operational female attempt to end her misery by means of one of
my firearms, and managed to kick down a locked door and disarm her before
she could get a shot off (a 7mm Magnum isn't a "cry for help"). My disdain
for the mentally ill who leave a swath of wreckage in their wake is
consummate, and I really don't care whether they're cute little girls or
gnarly men doing the damage. Nasty, self-destructive whackos suck.
I thought it was an asshole maneuver when Harley biffed on purpose, and I
think it was an asshole maneuver when whatsername biffed on purpose.
It hurts badly enough to lose people like Lonnie Willer and Sandy Wambach
who are doing everything in their power to bring each skydive to a safe
conclusion that it is infuriating to have someone using the experience to
intentionally bring about their own demise.
Screw politically correct; if you want to commit suicide like that, you
should expect to have your ashes flushed down the toilet so it is just that
much easier to piss on your grave.
Blue skies,
Winsor
Kirk Wennerström
RHallifax
> 1-in-1,000 chance of dying is as incorrect as comparing
>apples and oranges.
[snip]
> So, 29 fatal jumps over 2.2 million total jumps
>yields a rate of one fatality for every 76,000 jumps or so.
They're the same if the average jumper makes 76 jumps per year. I'm going to
make about 150 to 200 jumps this year. What's that do for my personal
statistics? Well that depends on other factors as well.....
Your chances of dying in an auto accident this year are one in five thousand.
But I'll bet you live life in a way which reduces that. I know I do. It shows
on my insurance. I'm not in the "high risk pool." .... Same holds true in
skydiving. Still, there's no majic formula that will keep you alive.
Murphy's law is at work in all things. This should be abundantly clear from
the almost unspeakable tradegies we've witnessed this summer alone.
Blue Skies, and be safe.
Bob
Tony Ingenoso
>
> According to the stats, it is safe to assume the more experienced
> skydivers has the highest risk (average in 1997 was 957 jumps, median
> was 500 jumps), so the risk of a jump increases with experience it
> seems, much more so than a relation to number of jumps done.
>
I don't quite buy this. There are some very experienced
classes of skydivers with extremely low numbers of fatalities
(when is the last time you heard of a fatality on a style or
accuracy jump?)
I suspect the activity being engaged in has more to do
with it. Complexity and additional equipment add risk
because there's more to think about and go wrong.
Tony
Nick Brice
>
> I've had an operational female attempt to end her misery by means of one of
> my firearms, and managed to kick down a locked door and disarm her before
> she could get a shot off (a 7mm Magnum isn't a "cry for help").
Well maybe you should store your firearms a bit more carefully...
Anyway I think you should be able to choose the way you wanna commit
suicide. If you want to fall towards your death fine. Just don't wear a
rig, it'll be much clearer for everybody and won't harm the sport (or at
least a bit less).
Nick
DISCLAIMER: I, for myself, am still not sure this girl committed suicide
(that's what is suspected but..) and so won't blame her now.
wea...@my-dejanews.com
>
> Anyway I think you should be able to choose the way you wanna commit
> suicide. If you want to fall towards your death fine. Just don't wear a
> rig, it'll be much clearer for everybody and won't harm the sport (or at
> least a bit less).
>
> Nick
>
> DISCLAIMER: I, for myself, am still not sure this girl committed suicide
> (that's what is suspected but..) and so won't blame her now.
>
OK, say I want to kill myself. I don't give a fuck about anyone else so I am
going to go to the school where your kids are in second and fourth grades.
During recess, I am going to go out on the playground and put a 230 grain,
hollow point, Star fire .45 caliber bullet through my cranium in front of
your kids. I am dead, but I am glad that before I died, I knew for certain
that you think it is OK for me to kill myself in the way I want to. Thank
you for not judging me or condemning my actions. OK, that is a bit extreme,
but it is just to illustrate a point that no matter how you want to kill
yourself, it is not necessarily right. If someone wants to commit suicide,
fine. Take a bunch of sleeping pills and vodka out in the desert where the
coyotes can dispose of your nasty carcass. Just don't ruin a man's business
and tarnish a sport and society in the process. I have no sympathy for a
person who takes his or her own life. Just don't fuck my friends or myself
out of what we do with our own time. WEAZEL
Povl H. Pedersen
> Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
> >
> > So what is the real danger here ? To me it looks like people getting
> > overconfident in themself, getting into a routine, or showing off.
>
> So which is it with you?
Still too carefull, and with too little experience to make the typical
high-risk skydiver. This will last until I get my danish license.
I do consider my first jumps in non-student gear to be high-risk jumps.
Risk is more the result of attitude as it is of both chutes failing.
Dany Brooks
People who commit suicide are already out of their minds, you can't
expect them to make rational decisions about how to kill themselves.
They don't care one ounce about themselves, obviously, so why would they
care about a business? I hate it that these things happen and make it
bad for the rest of us, but they're sick, even if it would have only been
temporarily sick.
Dany
Nick Brice
> OK, say I want to kill myself. I don't give a fuck about anyone else so I am
> going to go to the school where your kids are in second and fourth grades.
> During recess, I am going to go out on the playground and put a 230 grain,
> hollow point, Star fire .45 caliber bullet through my cranium in front of
> your kids.
and shoot at you ;^)
> I am dead, but I am glad that before I died, I knew for certain
> that you think it is OK for me to kill myself in the way I want to. Thank
> you for not judging me or condemning my actions. OK, that is a bit extreme,
No, I would'nt say that <grin>.
So OK maybe I should have said "choose the mean (gun, rope, pills,
meeting with Earth, whatever..) you'd like" and not "choose the way".
If you want to end your days it's your problem. Do it like you feel
like, but don't fuck the remaining others 'cause you're gonna kill
yourself and everybody has to go with you.
Still if you want to fall to your death, why not? Go to the Death Valley
(no pun intended, well..) get up on one of these cliffs and make your
last base jump throwing yourself in the canyon. (and you can add the
coyotes episode if you want to clean the place after).
> but it is just to illustrate a point that no matter how you want to kill
> yourself, it is not necessarily right. If someone wants to commit suicide,
> fine. Take a bunch of sleeping pills and vodka out in the desert where the
> coyotes can dispose of your nasty carcass.
That seems a lot of efforts to end one's day. Unless you already live in
the desert.
But you know using sleeping pills you will harm the drug industry, the
drug stores that sell them, and the poor people that can't find sleep at
night. Because of your misuse of the pills they're going to be
considered dangerous and there will be a law restricting the selling of
these pills and you'll need to have a test with a psy showing you don't
want commit suicide before being able to get these pills.
And using vodka to commit suicide, you will harm Smirnoff or Absolut or
whatever brand of vodka you use, and I really don't want to do that :^)
Just to say that the worse scenario won't necessarly happen. It's not
just because one skydiver once had a death wish (this still has to be
proven) that you can say all skydivers are crazy nuts who want to kill
themselves.(or they would really be not efficient at all)
> Just don't ruin a man's business
> and tarnish a sport and society in the process. I have no sympathy for a
> person who takes his or her own life.
Why? It's not that easy of a decision. Especially if you choose to walk
into a spinning prop.
> Just don't fuck my friends or myself
> out of what we do with our own time. WEAZEL
Nick
--
Knowlegde hurts. Ignorance kills.