What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig?
Troy Thompson
I am choosing AFF because I know that I am going to really enjoy the sport
and want to be a part of it for the duration. I've also thought about
purchasing a rig, but I'm curious:
What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig? How many jumps is too many
on a rig? I would like to buy used with around 50 jumps on the rig because
it's a lot cheaper than brand new, but I don't want to spend 3K only to
spend another 3-5K in 6 months or whatever..
Thanks for your input..
-Troy
james boole
> it's a lot cheaper than brand new, but I don't want to spend 3K only to
> spend another 3-5K in 6 months or whatever..
Yip thats right, a new rig every six months - hey but don't worry - i'll take
that worn out old piece of sh*t off you after six months and hey i'll even buy
you a beer in return.
I recommend you buy Javelin in yellow and yed, a Sabre 135 also yellow and red
and then a green reserve. Why? oh no reason ;)
Okay so i'm BSin ya! A new rig is good for 1000 jumps and more IF you look
after, care and maintain it etc
Better answers will no doubt follow ;)
Blue Skies, welcome to the tribe
james
RHallifax
Most people talk about the life of skydiving equipment in terms of the number
of jumps rather than the age.
One can reasonably expect to put a thousand jumps on most equipment. Some
items will last longer.
Since the average active skydiver makes 147 jumps per year, you can expect your
equipment to last 7 years or slightly more.
The thing to be aware of is this: you will want an easy to use rig first, until
you learn to fly, then you will probably want to trade your first rig for a
more responsive canopy. That will be somewhere between 100 and 300 skydives.
Some people think they need to trade at 50 skydives, but I believe there are
very few skydivers who are competent canopy pilots at that point.
The bottom line of the discussion is that you probably won't want to spend a
lot on the first rig as you will be trading it. Also, you should go thru your
instructor to make sure that your first rig is something you can handle.
Hope this helps.
Bob
Povl H. Pedersen
>I'm new to the sport and am making my first AFF jump in just over two weeks.
>and want to be a part of it for the duration. I've also thought about
>purchasing a rig, but I'm curious:
>
>What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig? How many jumps is too many
>on a rig? I would like to buy used with around 50 jumps on the rig because
>spend another 3-5K in 6 months or whatever..
A reserve has a defined lifetime of 20 reserve rides I have been told,
then it must go back to the factory. But you do not want to make 20
reserve rides in the next 6 months, and not even in the next 6 years.
A Zero-Porosity main has a lifetime of about 800-1000 jumps, then it needs
a set of new lines, as they shrink with use. People says that a ZP main
will last 2000-3000 jumps.
The container will last until it is so ugly and outdated you do not want
to jump it any more.
The Cypres AAD has a life expectancy of at least 10 years.
--
Povl H. Pedersen - Skydiver - CReW rocks
137 jumps - 1h 33m 57s freefall - D-482
jim oreilly
> Troy mon,
>
> Spend the least you can! $1000-$1500
> Harnesses last almost forever!
> Canopys need to be relined around 700+ jumps!
> Reserves last forever because their never jumped...maybe one or two!
>
> Spend your money now on a cypress, altimeter, audible altimeter, full
> face helmet with or without visor, hook knife, a good collaspable
> pilot chute, a tight BOC! oh and jump tickets!
>
> Get a big fat ass canopy like a 240-260sqft! Put 100+ jumps on it!
> This size chute will also teach you about Base canopy flying!
> So learn all the characteristics of it now...!
>
> Then sell it...if you bought it cheap you can usually get what you spent!
> Demo a 190 2+ jumps
> Demo a 170 2+ jumps
> Demo a 150 2+ jumps
>
> Depends on how much you WEIGHT... how low you should go in canopy size!
> and of course how well you FLEW on that big one!
>
Then sell rig and buy a like 170sqft rig setup for $2000..put 200+ jumps on it!
Then sell it....
Demo a smaller size if you want!
then spend the big bucks $3000-4000!
> or something to that effect!
Freephly
TooyT
Wrote:
>What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig?
It varys by material & care kid. Lines go first but they can be relined. Zp's
last longer than F111 but they more likely to be on a yup skygods back. Pack
out of the sun, keep yer rig clean and cool, don't throw it against hanger
walls and stay out of the tree's should last till yer a big ole anal skygod.
:-* snuffy
Tribal Anthropological Philosopher & Commentator
can't touch this :-P
Jan Meyer
> A reserve has a defined lifetime of 20 reserve rides I have been told,
> then it must go back to the factory. But you do not want to make 20
> reserve rides in the next 6 months, and not even in the next 6 years.
Who do you talk to??? This is amazing ....????
--
Jan Meyer
Aeroso...@MakeItHappen.com
http://www.MakeItHappen.com
TooyT
Wrote:
DAMN Heifer ewe left out his SIG FILE!
How we goner keep up with all his jumps and FF time? :-P snuffy's NG READER IS
BURNT OUT & NOT PICKING UP ALL THE POST'S!!!!!! Augggggg :-*
Lew Douva
>I am choosing AFF because I know that I am going to really enjoy the sport
>and want to be a part of it for the duration. I've also thought about
>purchasing a rig, but I'm curious:
>
>What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig? How many jumps is too many
>on a rig? I would like to buy used with around 50 jumps on the rig because
>it's a lot cheaper than brand new, but I don't want to spend 3K only to
>spend another 3-5K in 6 months or whatever..
>
>
>
>-Troy
Wait until you start trying to expense your gear on your tax return (assuming
you can come up with a legitimate reason to do this). They'll make you
depreciate it over seven years. I'd like to see the rig that lasts seven
years. I would not like to jump it.
--Douva
C-29569
ki...@kaybee.org
: Wait until you start trying to expense your gear on your tax return (assuming
: you can come up with a legitimate reason to do this). They'll make you
: depreciate it over seven years. I'd like to see the rig that lasts seven
: years. I would not like to jump it.
I'm a S/L JM, so I wrote off my latest gear purchase. From what I
understood, I could depreciate it over 7 years or I could choose to
write it all of that first year. I wrote it all off for simplicity.
--
Kirk Bauer -- CmpE, Georgia Tech -- ki...@kaybee.org -- Avid Linux User
GT Sport Parachuting Club! http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/skydive
Opinions expressed are my own, but they should be everybody's.
Freephly
I read here once that the current Avg. # of jumps per year by the
sport(non-pro) jumper is around 145.
thats 1015 jmps in seven years.
My J1 has over 800 on it and is good as new.
Conclusion: Rigs last more than 7 years
Deven.
FREFALLGUY
>Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
>> A reserve has a defined lifetime of 20 reserve rides I have been told,
>> then it must go back to the factory. But you do not want to make 20
>> reserve rides in the next 6 months, and not even in the next 6 years.
>
>Who do you talk to??? This is amazing ....????
It's not amazing. It's just Povl. ;-)
Freephly
A Tempo I would consider replacing after 2 jmps.
A Raven, well, once your tired of using it as a reserve you can then use it as
a main, or a great Base parachute.
Bridge Day 98 w/ a Raven 4.
Stephen
Freephly wrote
>Depends on the reserve.
>
>A Tempo I would consider replacing after 2 jmps.
>
about them I don't know? Are they certified to a lesser TSO?
CRW skies,
Steve F.
(with a Tempo at half life?)
Low D
>Wait until you start trying to expense your gear on your tax return (assuming
>you can come up with a legitimate reason to do this). They'll make you
>depreciate it over seven years. I'd like to see the rig that lasts seven
>years. I would not like to jump it.
Why not. I have a RTS harness and container, a safety star reserve
and a duel keel paradactyl that is about 25years old and I jump it
every now and then. And I like it.
:}
Jan Meyer
>
> >Why not. I have a RTS harness and container, a safety star reserve
> >and a duel keel paradactyl that is about 25years old and I jump it
> >every now and then. And I like it.
>
> rig really make it 7 years? It seems to me that in that time, you'll usually
> end up replacing your gear a piece at a time. I think five years max would be
> a beter time frame.
>
I dunno what you do to tear up your gear so fast.
My Racers last 10 years. They are still airworthy.
My mains last over 1000 jumps and they are not even zp.
TooyT
*************************************************
Tempos? Don't buy no cheap design's that come out of South Africa. Buy
American--buy Precision or PD reserves
cheap ass sheep worry about dieing and then cut cost? ha ha ha :-P snuffy
Lew Douva
>and a duel keel paradactyl that is about 25years old and I jump it
>every now and then. And I like it.
I know "they" SAY your gear can last that long, but how often does a complete
rig really make it 7 years? It seems to me that in that time, you'll usually
end up replacing your gear a piece at a time. I think five years max would be
a beter time frame.
--Douva
Lew Douva
>My Racers last 10 years. They are still airworthy.
>My mains last over 1000 jumps and they are not even zp.
>
>--
>Jan Meyer
Just ask someone who knows me. };^) I go through gear like a smoker goes
through cigarettes. I hear about gear lasting this long, but I can't say I've
seen a lot of gear that old still being jumped. Possibly it's the harsh
elements of where I jump. The blazing sun, blowing dust, and weeds seem to do
a number on gear here in west Texas.
--Douva
Povl H. Pedersen
Jan Meyer <Aeroso...@MakeItHappen.com> wrote:
>Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
>> A reserve has a defined lifetime of 20 reserve rides I have been told,
>> then it must go back to the factory. But you do not want to make 20
>> reserve rides in the next 6 months, and not even in the next 6 years.
>
>Who do you talk to??? This is amazing ....????
Info picked up in the local club. Probably from one of the instructors.
I just checked the manual for me Techno reserve, and the closest I could
come to find info related to this is, that after every 25 jumps, you
need to do a permeability test of it. And our reserve packers are not
riggers, and do not have the equipment for it, so I guess this is why
the say it must be sent in for check after 25 jumps.
How many US riggers can perform that test ?
And 25 reserve rides is still more than I plan over the next 6 month
or 6 years for that sake.
SBozo
>From: Jan Meyer Aerosoftware@MakeItHappen.
>Who do you talk to??? This is amazing ....????
>
>
>--
>Jan Meyer
I had a 5 cell cirrus reserve made into a main once apon a time put a couple
hundred jumps on it before I sold it.. I dont think it ever saw the factory
again Povl
jim
SBozo
>They'll make you
>depreciate it over seven years. I'd like to see the rig that lasts seven
>years. I would not like to jump it.
>
>--Douva
Lew Ive got two Talons the old one is a two digit serial number , one of the
first built...the new one is a four digit number built in 89....the mains are a
little newer bought one in 91 the other in 95.
So whats the deal about not jumping OLD gear , scared of the way you took care
of it or...peer pressure ?
Sheeeesh
jim D-10154
Lew Douva
>the
>first built...the new one is a four digit number built in 89....the mains are
>a
>little newer bought one in 91 the other in 95.
>So whats the deal about not jumping OLD gear , scared of the way you took
>care
>of it or...peer pressure ?
>Sheeeesh
>
> jim D-10154
But are you still jumping the original main and reserve? Containers usually
out-last the rest of the gear. AGAIN, I know gear can last this long, but it
seems rare that anyone will keep an entire rig for that lenght of time.
--Douva
Povl H. Pedersen
>>Subject: Re: What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig?
>
>>Who do you talk to??? This is amazing ....????
>>
>>
>>--
>>Jan Meyer
>
>I had a 5 cell cirrus reserve made into a main once apon a time put a couple
>hundred jumps on it before I sold it.. I dont think it ever saw the factory
>again Povl
We also have some Raven IV as student mains. I was told, that you can always
move a reserve, and use it as a main, but you can not take your old main
and jump as a reserve.
It is my guess, that the TSO certification is only valid as long as the
permeability is low enough on the parachute. And that changes with jumps,
especially those with hard openings.
My Techno reserve manual says, that it is designed in such a way, that
it will not let more than 5 cubic feet per minute though one square
foot with a 1/2" water pressure.
When it lets more air through, it is not good enough to use as a
reserve, but it will work as a main.
One question: How many riggers has equipment to test permeability of
parachute fabric ? My guess is 'very few'. Which means it will need to
be shipped somewhere!
SBozo
>But are you still jumping the original main and reserve?
Reserves are the originals....mains have both been replaced due to smoke damage
from a decade of demos....ahhhh all you budding demo jumpers didnt know smoke
canisters would burn holes in your canopy?? The new ones arent as bad but the
old military M-18s were a bitch.
Anyway then you can write em off as business expense.
jim
Jan Meyer
>
> We also have some Raven IV as student mains. I was told, that you can always
> move a reserve, and use it as a main, but you can not take your old main
> and jump as a reserve.
I sure would wish you'd let us know where you get your info.
I know of MANY places that have migrated a former main parachute, that
is tso'd as a reserve, to be used as a reserve after several hundred
jumps.
I'm not passing judgement on whether this is a good practice or not, but
it can be done legally.
TooyT
Wrote to the mighty Euro-poopey pants jumper (Polv) who sed:
Useing a reserve as a main for 200 jumps and switching it back to reserve use
is not a coyote approved pratice. Sounds like something a money grubbing DZO or
equipment dealer would do to the sheep though. Coyote got to hang with poopey
head Dane on this one damn that sucks fer sure cuz he's so Euro mainstream
anal retentive! ha ha ha. :-P snuffy
Tribal Anthropological Philosopher & Commentator
sheep can't catch coyotes :-P
Outlaw 1262
Certified skydive criminal by Danish standards will Polv Pederson & Interpol
git involved?
Povl H. Pedersen
Jan Meyer <Aeroso...@MakeItHappen.com> wrote:
>Povl H. Pedersen wrote:
>>
>> We also have some Raven IV as student mains. I was told, that you can always
>> move a reserve, and use it as a main, but you can not take your old main
>> and jump as a reserve.
>
>I sure would wish you'd let us know where you get your info.
>I know of MANY places that have migrated a former main parachute, that
>is tso'd as a reserve, to be used as a reserve after several hundred
>jumps.
>I'm not passing judgement on whether this is a good practice or not, but
>it can be done legally.
bits and pieces picked up in the club. This is one question asked for
sure when I had my FJC.
But I guess, that if the permeability of the fabric is low enough, and
it fulfills the other requirements of the manual, it should work.
As I asked a few times before, how many riggers can actually measure the
permeability of the fabric ? Any at all ? I would guess this would be
needed before using it as a reserve again.
I also see this as bad practice.
DJ Mike
>years. I would not like to jump it.
Come take a look at my gear. It is seven years old, and is in perfect working
condition. The only thing different about my gear is, it isn't pretty anymore.
Then again, some people will tell you it wasn't pretty when it was brand new.
In 1996 I made a jump using a harness container that was built in 1947, a 28'
Switlik main built in 1959, and a 28' Pioneer reserve built in 1961. All that
gear was older then me. It had been well used and had seen better days, but it
was in perfect working condition.
Life expectancey often depends on how much you respect and take care of your
equipment. If you treat it like it's disposable, then it will be in a short
time. If you treat it with respect as the life preserver it is meant to be,
then it will bring you joy for a long long time.
Big Blue Playgrounds,
DJ Mike
The only thing guaranteed in Skydiving is...you WILL land !
DJ Mike
>rig really make it 7 years?
Alot more than you obviously think. Ask Riggers how often they do repacks on
gear that most would consider a museum piece. As a Rigger, I see alot more than
one would think. Most gear is built way above FAA standards and with a little
TLC will last longer than the average jumper. These days, jumpers come and go.
The gear stays around.
TooyT
>But I guess, that if the permeability of the fabric is low enough, and
>it fulfills the other requirements of the manual, it should work.
>
>As I asked a few times before, how many riggers can actually
>measure the
>permeability of the fabric ? Any at all ? I would guess this would be
>needed before using it as a reserve again.
*************************************************
Ewe can measure the permebility yerself kid, just jump it on a hot no wind day
at high noon. If the landing is somewhere between a frap and a bounce the
canopys raggity P wise! ha ha ha :-o) snuffy sez American Gangster skydiveing
humor I hope ewe understand? :->
Tribal Anthropological Philosopher & Commentator
sheep can't catch coyotes :-P
Outlaw 1262
Certified skydive criminal by Danish standards will Polv Poopey pants &
Interpol Arrest him? :)
DJ Mike
>
It is a requirement to "know how" in order to get your Riggers ticket.
Any good loft in the U.S. has that capability.
Wendy Faulkner
Stephen <sfnl@hotLACK'O'SPAMmail.com> wrote:
>
>Freephly wrote
>>Depends on the reserve.
>>
>>A Tempo I would consider replacing after 2 jmps.
>>
>Down on Tempos for being cheap, or is there something
>about them I don't know? Are they certified to a lesser TSO?
Well, I put my Tempo 120 in my CRW rig instead of my other 2 freefall
rigs because its my favorite of my 3 reserves. I've got 4 rides on it,
its still in great shape and I actually enjoy flying it. They're
cheaper, but they fly nice. (Though from what I understand - they don't
fly well heavily loaded - I'm only loading mine at 1.1 to one or so and
it flies sweet. I've been told if you're a big guy wanting a small
reserve - I know not too smart - you'd want a different brand.)
Wen
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Follow your Dream! Unless
=- Wendy Faulkner =- Its the one where you're
=- faul...@eco.utexas.edu =- at work in your underwear
=- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =- during a fire drill.
Povl H. Pedersen
>>How many US riggers can perform that test ?
>>
>
>It is a requirement to "know how" in order to get your Riggers ticket.
>
>Any good loft in the U.S. has that capability.
Are you a rigger ? In that case, how is the test performed ? You would
need some airpump to generate the exact right presure, and keep it for
long enough to somehow measure the air coming out on the other side.
Or do you take a large piston, adjust its weight to match the target
pressure, and time how long it takes to come down ?
5 cubic foot per minute per square feet is not much air going through.
What we are talking about is, that the piston must be 5 times higher than
its area. And this must go through in 60 seconds = 0.0833 times the
square per second.
Assume we have an area 10*10 cm^2, then we must have 10*10*50 cm^3
= 5 liters of air. This must go through in 60 seconds, which is as
little as 0.8 dl / second. If you can calculate the weight of the piston
right, and the friction, then it is possible. Or if you have a standard
piston, at measures the time it takes for x liters to go through the fabric.
And what happens around the stitches ? Special rules there ?
Winsor Naugler III
<snip>
> >
> >What's the average lifespan of a parachute rig? How many jumps is too
many
> >on a rig? I would like to buy used with around 50 jumps on the rig
because
> >it's a lot cheaper than brand new, but I don't want to spend 3K only to
> >spend another 3-5K in 6 months or whatever..
> >
> >
>
> Wait until you start trying to expense your gear on your tax return
(assuming
> depreciate it over seven years. I'd like to see the rig that lasts seven
> years. I would not like to jump it.
>
>
reliability, etc. is a strict function of maintenance. In the same sense
that a blueprinted Panhead is preferable to an abused Blockhead, a well
maintained Wonderhog is as safe and reliable as anything going. The main
diffenece in this analogy is that the polished Duo Glide is prone to be
gorgeous, and the Wonderhog is the kind of fugly that only a mother could
love.
My B-12 pilot's rig was originally manufactured in something like 1954. It
has been completely overhauled more than once, and now has a rather
indeterminate date of origin - like my Harley. When was it made? Uh, it
depends on how you define when. You get a different answer if you're
looking for the date of initial manufacture or the average age of major
components (a Buick customized the front end of the scooter, and a pine tree
effected mods on the original C-9).
The three rigs I'm bringing to the Convention were made in the 70's, 80's
and 90's, and range from inverted-apex round to ultra-high-performance
elliptical. Any of them will save your life beautifully if you use them per
procedure, or kill you deader than hell if you work hard enough at creating
an unsafe condition. The biggest safety consideration is the contents of
the harness, not the container, since any properly sized airworthy rig may
be used safely.
For a first rig, a relined 190 Triathalon in an 11 year old Vector having
fresh velcro and a BOC (screw ROL), with maybe a Raven II is a better choice
than many combinations of brand new equipment.
If your goal is to look stylish and money's no object, by all means go for
new. If you're into safety, go for airworthy and appropriate.
Blue skies,
Winsor
DJ Mike
Winsor,
I enjoy your "gun" analogies much better.
Smile people, smile !!
DJ Mike
Yes
> and keep it for
>long enough to somehow measure the air coming out on the other side
It's a test done with water.
Poynters manual Vol. 1
Page 67-4.024, Page 449-7.90.3, page 460-8.1.9, page 463-8.1.11, page
467-8.1.13
Poynters Vol. 2
Page 69-4.021, page75 4.036, page290-7.90.1
Do your homework smartboy.
I'll give you a hint. Permeability and tensil strengths tend to compliment each
other.