Fla plane crash/Tom Manning
Fred (formerly known as Fast Fred)
Tom Manning has been badmouthed in the Miami Herald by Jim Wyatt, who
runs an FBO and sells fuel at Homestead. A couple of other people,
including one drop zone owner/operator and a jumper with 46 jumps, have
been less than kind in their comments to the Miami press corps.
One thing that I feel that has been overlooked in all this is that Tom
was right by the open door. He was spotting the jump run for the
survivor, Carol O'Connell.
The airplane stalled and then entered the spin to the left, according
to O'Connell, who is something less than an expert witness, considering
her lack of experience in the sport. Additionally, eyewitness accounts
of traumatic events that the witness is involved in are notoriously
innacurate.
It is highly likely that Manning, with his considerable experience,
could have left the aircraft at almost any time during the descent, and
saved himself. He elected to remain with the aircraft. The reason is
known only to Tom.
Rgds,
Fred.
Skydive Palm Beach
Well, Tom wasn't exactly alone up there. He was intending to make a
tandem skydive after putting out a student on a low pass (about
3,500'). Can you imagine how difficult it would be to hook up a
terrified student in a cramped aircraft which also happens to be
spinning towards the earth? He might have made it had he concentrated
on his student and not fought with the pilot for control of the
airplane! But, as you all know, Tom was a control freak.
Mach Bane
Out of curiosity, if there were 2 tandem pairs on the load and the
passengers were not hooked up to the TM's. What would be the liability if
the TM's bailed out and left the 2 passengers in the plane?
BSBD,
Michael Tablas
Mach Ba...@aol.com
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
The sky's not the limit the ground is.
Bill Von Novak
In article <19970604044...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
mach...@aol.com (Mach Bane) wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, if there were 2 tandem pairs on the load and the
> passengers were not hooked up to the TM's. What would be the liability if
> the TM's bailed out and left the 2 passengers in the plane?
several things would happen:
-the media would report something like "instructor parachutes to
safety, leaving his helpless student to certain death"
-some network would produce a made-for-TV movie called "betrayal in the
sky"
-the student's family would sue the TM, and lawyers all over the US
would rub their hands in glee
-we would argue about it for months on the newsgroup, and end up
calling each other all kinds of names
-a five-fatality crash would become a three-fatality crash, but somehow
that will be forgotten in all the noise.
-bill von
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
I am Rhyno
What makes you think that Tom or anyone given a life/death situation would
take time to hook up the student. There are times in life when you have to
save yourself. As a fireperson for 20 years I know you can't save
everybody and the 1st rule of rescue is; don't make a rescue if it will
cause an additional death i.e. the rescure's.
Rhyno
Keith Grossman
Bill Von Novak wrote:
>>
> > Out of curiosity, if there were 2 tandem pairs on the load and the
> > passengers were not hooked up to the TM's. What would be the liability
if
> > the TM's bailed out and left the 2 passengers in the plane?
>
> several things would happen:
>
> -the media would report something like "instructor parachutes to
> safety, leaving his helpless student to certain death"
>
> -some network would produce a made-for-TV movie called "betrayal in the
> sky"
>
> -the student's family would sue the TM, and lawyers all over the US
> would rub their hands in glee
>
> -we would argue about it for months on the newsgroup, and end up
> calling each other all kinds of names
>
> -a five-fatality crash would become a three-fatality crash, but somehow
> that will be forgotten in all the noise.
>
> -bill von
>
...and, somewhere over Florida, there would still be a couple of guys
floating around under tandem canopies waiting to come down :-)
Robert Crouse
In <8654439...@dejanews.com> Bill Von Novak <bil...@qualcomm.com>
writes:
> -a five-fatality crash would become a three-fatality crash, but
somehow
>that will be forgotten in all the noise.
>
>-bill von
Good point - I used to tell my students during the "aircraft
emergencies" part of the FJC "If things really go to hell in a
hand-basket, and the only possible outcome is that I survive or nobody
survives - believe me, I'll survive".
Think about this carefully before flaming me!
Bob
crw...@bellsouth.net
Robert Crouse wrote:
>
> In <8654439...@dejanews.com> Bill Von Novak <bil...@qualcomm.com>
> writes:
>
> > -a five-fatality crash would become a three-fatality crash, but
> somehow
> >that will be forgotten in all the noise.
> >
> >-bill von
>
> Good point - I used to tell my students during the "aircraft
> emergencies" part of the FJC "If things really go to hell in a
> hand-basket, and the only possible outcome is that I survive or nobody
> survives - believe me, I'll survive".
>
> Think about this carefully before flaming me!
Personally, I believe the situation would call for a live, experienced,
objective witness ;)
--
Blue Skies,
Michael
D-6139
I recognize and accept that Buzz Fink has the right to run his
commercial enterprise in any legal manner he chooses. I feel, however,
his decision to mandate choice of gear for ALL skydivers wishing to jump
at his business establishment is another step in moving skydiving toward
nice, neat politically correct student mills.
In my opinion, the owners and instructors at commercial operations of
this type have a diminished respect for sharing the beauty of skydiving
and an ever increasing appreciation of maximizing profits in a
controlled businesslike environment.
It for these reasons I urge all skydivers to:
BOYCOTT AIR ADVENTURES, INC--SAN DIEGO
"Come to the edge, Life said. They said, we are afraid. Come to the
edge, life said. They came. Life pushed them...and they flew."
---Guillaume Apollinaire
Skydive Palm Beach
Regarding comments made about the Homestead plane crash and Tom
Manning, Skydive Palm Beach would like to state that these comments
were not made by Skydive Palm Beach, but by an individual. The
skydiving center and Pat Dodgin, DZ management, have no comments as
to what happened at Homestead having not known Tom Manning nor his
operations.
Tim
crw...@bellsouth.net
Actually, I'll have to give Pat credit here. The original, critical,
post of Tom Manning and his DZ was simply attributed to "Skydive Palm
Beach" with no indication of who had written it. I contacted Pat and
asked him if this was the "official view" of his DZ--which I felt would
have been a bit cheezy.
I have no problem with any individual posting any opinion they wish,
using whatever language they choose. Since this particular _individual_
was too 'timid' to sign his/her name to the opinion, Pat was honorably
correcting any possible misunderstanding.
In sharp contrast to this, Marty Jones (Air Adventures-Clewiston) made
many comments to the local media (concerning the crash and how Tom ran
his DZ as possible contributing factors) which I felt to be self-serving
and dishonorable.
Marty ran (in my opinion) a business oriented student mill type
operation with an ever increasing appreciation of maximizing profits (I
know I seldom experienced much of beauty there) . I have just heard
that he has sold his DZ and is leaving Florida. If this is true,
Florida skydiving is enriched by his decision.
--
Blue Skies,
Michael
D-6139
I recognize and accept that Buzz Fink has the right to run his
commercial enterprise in any legal manner he chooses. I feel, however,
his decision to mandate choice of gear for ALL skydivers wishing to jump
at his business establishment is another step in moving skydiving toward
nice, neat politically correct student mills.
In my opinion, the owners and instructors at commercial operations of
this type have a diminished respect for sharing the beauty of skydiving
and an ever increasing appreciation of maximizing profits in a
controlled businesslike environment.
It for these reasons I urge all skydivers to:
BOYCOTT AIR ADVENTURES SKYDIVING, INC--SAN DIEGO