Accident at The Ranch?

[[K]rak]

Heard there was a serious accident at the Ranch today....anyone know for sure?

[K]

--
[K]rak
Recently Banned @ Skydive Las Vegas

[frost]

A girl crashed badly during the last round of the swoops. It looked
really bad, she was Life-Lined out in critical condition. Let our
prayers be with her and her family.

--
Michael Shatalov
USPA B-24090
82nd 1995-99
ii
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no free fall from the sky only freedom to open your parachute"

[[K]rak]

Thanks for the info Michael....prayers and thoughts are with her and her family

In article <3B89D386...@yahoo.com_loddi_doddi_we_like_to_party>,

[jerm]

yes, she was in a dive on final to swoop the pond when the right side of her
canopy collaped below 100ft and never recovered. She was helo-lifted out to
the local trauma center and passed away shortly after. Prayers to her and
her family.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/today/policecourts/stories/po082701s1.sht
ml

blue skies.

-jerm

"[K]rak" <rais...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:raisplin-270...@207-172-171-130.s384.tnt1.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn
.com...

[mo ghile meer]

>From: rais...@rcn.com ([K]rak)
<snip>

>[K]rak
>Recently Banned @ Skydive Las Vegas

this hawks fellow is makking it to easy for sheep to reach real skydiver
status!
by circumventing the old routes of first being kicked off dz's then working yer
way up to the banned megga outlaw class,
skydiving is becoming to easy! :(P wiley

brain lok
dip sideslip.
www.ezinfocenter.com/3087776
www.MintMail.com/?m=959706

[Rjincc]

Sympathies to family and friends,.....

[Tom Olson]

This is from the newspaper.
Ohio woman, 41, dies in skydiving accident
GARDINER -- An Ohio woman died early Sunday evening from injuries she
suffered in a skydiving accident at the Blue Sky Ranch.
Lisa Gallagher, 41, of Columbus, jumped shortly before 5 p.m. from a Super
Twin Otter twin-engine airplane at an altitude of 5,000 feet. When she was
about 100 feet from the ground, the wind shifted direction, causing the
parachute to collapse, according to New York State Police at Highland.

Gallagher hit the ground at a high rate of speed, police said. She was flown
by MedEvac helicopter to St. Francis Hospital in the Town of Poughkeepsie.
She was pronounced dead shortly after 6 p.m.

Dozens of parachuters were at the ranch during the weekend for the 2001 Pond
Swooping Nationals.

[TY]

I'm so sorry to hear that. Lisa and her friends and family will be in my
thoughts.

[Cricket202]

very sad..I heard the news on the radio today that this jumper was also from
Ohio.. and did not make it through her injuries.

if anyone has a name or a home DZ please e-mail me... I may have jumped with
her, and not even known.

condolances to her family and friends!!!

and we shall drink a toast and do a dive for her at Richmond boogie this
weekend!!!!

[Jim]

Here is the new article from the Poughkeepsie Journal:

Monday, August 27, 2001

rais...@rcn.com ([K]rak) wrote in message news:<raisplin-270...@207-172-171-130.s384.tnt1.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn.com>...

[Estilo Rodriguez]

Our thoughts and prayers are with Lisa, her friends, her family and her
boyfriend Fidel Rodriguez (stay strong brother).
Peace,
Estilo
"[K]rak" <rais...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:raisplin-270...@207-172-171-130.s384.tnt1.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn
.com...

[@nne]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:34:47 -0400, rais...@rcn.com ([K]rak) wrote:

>Heard there was a serious accident at the Ranch today....anyone know for sure?

Sadly it's true. I was there when it happened right in front of me while
I was taking shots at the pond and it really got to me. It was
terrifying to watch. ...and NO, I didn't take any photos after the
accident...in case some bloody bastard from Real TV or such is reading
this!

My deepest condolences to her family and friends.

blue skies forever Lisa!
@nne

Anne Heck - Editor and Webmaster
** skyXtreme ** - The Skydive Online Magazine
http://www.skyxtreme.com
http://www.skydiveworld.com

[Cricket202]

sorry for the loss, and the fact that you were in the wrong place at the wrong
time ann!!!

[CRWMike]

Goodbye, sister. Blue Skies.

Michael
D-6139

[Nick]

is it common for a change in wind to collapse a canopy??

Nick

"Cricket202" <crick...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010827153029...@mb-mq.aol.com...

[@nne]

On 27 Aug 2001 19:30:29 GMT, crick...@aol.com (Cricket202) wrote:

>sorry for the loss, and the fact that you were in the wrong place at the wrong
>time ann!!!

It was a sad and terrible moment but I don't think that I was at the
wrong place .... once again it made me think about certain things that
are important in life....because the very next moment all could be
over... and one missed what really counts. A sad but "right" wake up
call for me!

blues @nne

[Dave Miller]

It wouldn't be the first time turbulence had collapsed a canopy. On Saturday
I didn't jump at all, just watched the competition and I heard a few
contestants remark how the winds were perfect for swooping. Sunday I was
jumping and things were bumpy, real bumpy. After two twelve ways, three of
the people I was jumping with stopped because of the turbulence on landing.
I also understand they had stopped all student jumping for the same reason.
I left at 4:30 so was not there when this happened. My condolences to family
and friends.

Dave Miller

"Nick" <nic...@dropzone.com> wrote in message
news:jxyi7.24129$hT4.7...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...

[[K]rak]

In article <20010827104158...@mb-fo.aol.com>, to...@aol.com
(mo ghile meer) wrote:

> >From: rais...@rcn.com ([K]rak)
> <snip>
> >[K]rak
> >Recently Banned @ Skydive Las Vegas
>
> this hawks fellow is makking it to easy for sheep to reach real skydiver
> status!
> by circumventing the old routes of first being kicked off dz's then
working yer
> way up to the banned megga outlaw class,
> skydiving is becoming to easy! :(P wiley

What's that old saying....."Take it easy"....hell..anymore I take it
anyway I can get it....LOL

--

[Povl H. Pedersen]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:18:01 GMT,
jerm <je...@undercanopy.com> wrote:
>yes, she was in a dive on final to swoop the pond when the right side of her
>canopy collaped below 100ft and never recovered. She was helo-lifted out to
>the local trauma center and passed away shortly after. Prayers to her and
>her family.

Was she doing a left hand turn ? My question is, was it the inside
or the outside side of the canopy that collapsed ? I would
suspect the inside, as in a turn the outside ought to be faster to
catch up ?

[Ronjumps]

Anyone know type of canopy....wingloading and size?
Ron

[AJ]

what the canopy?

Dave Miller <dav...@nni.com> wrote in message
news:tolevvr...@corp.supernews.com...

[EffinJump]

Hi Ron, She was deep in the corner, close to the trees. Closer than anyone
else, other than J.C. dared to be. A rotor pushed the left side (as you are
flying) down for a split second and she slammed hard. It had nothing to do
with canopy model or loading. It was the rotors from the tree line. -Rob

[john]

Some of you might not know that Lisa Gallagher is Lisa Dossenback.
jrw
CRWMike wrote in message <3B8AACFA...@Bellsouth.net>...

[sitflyr]

Condolences to Lisa's family and friends, and to Fidel Rodriguez. :-*(

Zofo

[Will Packard]

Thanks. That was useful information.

[mo ghile meer]

>From: rais...@rcn.com ([K]rak)
>to...@aol.com
>(mo ghile meer) wrote:
>> this hawks fellow is makking it to >>easy for sheep to reach real skydiver
>> status! by circumventing the old routes >>of first being kicked off dz's

the working >>yer way up to the banned megga outlaw >>class, skydiving is

becoming to easy! >>:(P >wiley
>

>What's that old saying....."Take it easy"....hell..anymore I take it
>anyway I can get it....LOL
>

>[K]rak
>Recently Banned @ Skydive Las Vegas

thats the difference between the hardscrabble generation and ewe modern
humans....we believed things that were easy... often weren't worth
having--->yawl thrive on easy shit! :)P wiley

[[K]rak]

In article <20010827195331...@mb-mq.aol.com>, to...@aol.com
(mo ghile meer) wrote:

> >From: rais...@rcn.com ([K]rak)
> >to...@aol.com
> >(mo ghile meer) wrote:
> >> this hawks fellow is makking it to >>easy for sheep to reach real skydiver
> >> status! by circumventing the old routes >>of first being kicked off dz's
> the working >>yer way up to the banned megga outlaw >>class, skydiving is
> becoming to easy! >>:(P >wiley
> >
>
> >What's that old saying....."Take it easy"....hell..anymore I take it
> >anyway I can get it....LOL
> >
> >[K]rak
> >Recently Banned @ Skydive Las Vegas
>
> thats the difference between the hardscrabble generation and ewe modern
> humans....we believed things that were easy... often weren't worth
> having--->yawl thrive on easy shit! :)P wiley

Hey I work for my skydives though.....I don't use no credit cards to buy
my jumps, it's all cash or I don't jump...no I don;t get cash advances
either before ya try to spring that one outta the ol pot...hmmmm....I did
buy myself brand spankin new gear though when I bought
gear.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

--

[TY]

We had a lot of turbulence down low in MA on Sunday, too.

[LORD OF THE SKY]

[K]rak <rais...@rcn.com> wrote in message

news:raisplin-270...@207-172-171-230.s484.tnt1.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn
.com...

> > thats the difference between the hardscrabble generation and ewe modern
> > humans....we believed things that were easy... often weren't worth
> > having--->yawl thrive on easy shit! :)P wiley
>
> Hey I work for my skydives though.....I don't use no credit cards to buy
> my jumps, it's all cash or I don't jump...no I don;t get cash advances
> either before ya try to spring that one outta the ol pot

Yo Krak,
Have you pawned each of your personal possessions for lift tickets?
Well then quit crying yuppie (tattooed) boy!
Sell some stuff! Start with your TV.
Develop and build your own business where by you will never again be
dependent on the whims of another man. It will be you, sink or swim. As you
are unemployed now seems like the best time to start.
And to get right down to it Krak, is your back BROKE?
Can't carry lumber or tile?
Many areas of the country are booming in the construction industry,
Don't cry Krak,
Excersise your back!

"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

[Peril]

i did not know lisa, but the ranch is my home dropzone since the 70's, i
pray for my ranchhands, and if u need me you know i am in deland, and i pray
for lisa's familiy, godspeed, cheryl peril
sitflyr wrote in message <9megs...@enews1.newsguy.com>...

[Jerry K.]

Yeah, but we don't whine about it.

...bsrp
...jlk

[Jerry K.]

Interesting. The Buda Kup's a merchant afterall.

...bsrp
...jlk

On 27 Aug 2001 23:53:31 GMT, to...@aol.com (mo ghile meer) spammed:

> www.ezinfocenter.com/3087776
> www.MintMail.com/?m=959706

[D16842]

The Lord spoketh:

> And to get right down to it Krak, is your back BROKE?
> Can't carry lumber or tile?
> Many areas of the country are booming in the construction industry,
> Don't cry Krak,
> Excersise your back!
>

Don't forget the old standby. Pack. On a busy day you can make some reasonable
change doing so. You will never get rich, but you will be on the DZ, learning,
talking, living the life.

Tom B

[Dave Miller]

----- Original Message -----
From: Nick <nic...@dropzone.com>
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Accident at The Ranch?

> is it common for a change in wind to collapse a canopy??
>
> Nick
>

The comment about a change in wind was from the news paper so keep that in
mind. I believe a collapsing canopy banged up Brian Germain pretty bad once
and that was the reason he developed the "air lock" canopy. It's supposed to
keep the canopy pressurized under turbulence. Anyone else want to add to or
correct this info.

Good bye Lisa,
Dave Miller

[[K]rak]

In article <20010827221258...@mb-ct.aol.com>, d16...@aol.com
(D16842) wrote:

Now I _could_ pack....and I _should_ find some kind people that will let
me do that as my pack jobs aint bad, I am just slow at
it.........hmm.......it's an idea......

[mo ghile meer]

>From: sky...@pdq.net (Jerry K.)
whined:

yuh trying to work up some change to supplement my SS so I kin go out and do
some tandems, screw with the sheep a little. Yer just like my last
girlfriend....whine cuz I'm a no show and whine when I try to make extra money
to showup. Make up yer mind bitch! ;-* wiley

[Peril]

maybe i am out of order, 1974, turbulence is a fact of life, careful love
always cheryl peril
TY wrote in message <3B8AE7D0...@net1plus.com>...

[Estilo Rodriguez]

I jump a Samurai. Which is Brian Germains newest Air-Locked Elipitical High
Performance Canopy. I have a good number of jumps on the canopy and I find
it to be the most stable air foil and rigid wing of any canopy I have ever
flown. Stability is excellent, swoops are HUGE and the LIFT is Unlimited.
I will never own anything else but Brian Germains(AKA AirLocko Rodriguez)
canopies.
I feel more comfortable in turbulent air under an air locked canopy because
the canopy can not be instantly de-pressurized(Collapse!). But this does
not warrant us to jump in high or very turbulent winds
Conditions can be a factor in a lot of skydiving injuries(#1 being winds).
We are the only ones that can make the desicion not to jump in unsafe winds
both high or speratic. But if you want that extra blanket of security jump
airlocks.
Brian also makes another airlocked canopy called the Lotus which is square
and much more docile. Check out his website at www.bigairsportz.com
Blue Ones,
Estilo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Miller" <dav...@nni.com>
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Accident at The Ranch?

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick <nic...@dropzone.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Accident at The Ranch?
>

> > is it common for a change in wind to collapse a canopy??
> >
> > Nick
> >
>

> The comment about a change in wind was from the news paper so keep that in
> mind. I believe a collapsing canopy banged up Brian Germain pretty bad
once
> and that was the reason he developed the "air lock" canopy. It's supposed
to
> keep the canopy pressurized under turbulence. Anyone else want to add to
or
> correct this info.
>
> Good bye Lisa,
> Dave Miller
>
>

"Peril" <Pe...@totcon.com> wrote in message
news:7uDi7.26271$4b5.6...@news6.giganews.com...

[LORD OF THE SKY]

[K]rak <rais...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:raisplin-270...@207-172-171-230.s484.tnt1.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn
.com...

So, have you dismissed carrying materials? An occupation which will build
your muscles?
Oh yeah ,but it might cut in to your gym time!
Quit whining Krak!

Get off your ass and go to work !

[Jerry K.]

On 28 Aug 2001 02:34:13 GMT, to...@aol.com (mo ghile meer) wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>yuh trying to work up some change to supplement my SS so I kin go out and do
>some tandems, screw with the sheep a little.

Don't you mean grub for money like merchants or peasants so you can
support the Merchants, Whores, DZO's, and the USPA? Hardly a
respectable line of work for a Buda-Kup Warrior-type such as yourself.

What happened to screwing with the sheep exclusively within the
environs of the newsgroup while your vast array of "contacts" out in
the "real-world" kept you informed on the latest goings ons of DZ's
everywhere?

>Yer just like my last
>girlfriend....whine cuz I'm a no show and whine when I try to make extra money
>to showup. Make up yer mind bitch! ;-* wiley

That's a new one but hardly unexpected-whining now about someone else
whining about your own whining.

...bsrp
...jlk

[LORD OF THE SKY]

Yo' Estilo,
How many jumps you got?

"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

Estilo Rodriguez <free...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:M0Ei7.46193$xj.97...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...

[Estilo Rodriguez]

Are we discussing my jump # or canopies? Quanity/Quality-Which is relative?
But FYI 500+ in the last year and 200+ on the Samurai. Just giving my
opinion about airlocked canopies I am not saying I am correct. This is
what I am comfortable flying and everyone should try differ canopies until
they find one that fits them. peace-Estilo
"LORD OF THE SKY" <lord...@ellijay.com> wrote in message
news:9mf4m...@enews2.newsguy.com...

[AJ]

I like to know what the canopy used by lisa?
AJ

Peril <Pe...@totcon.com> wrote in message

news:D4Ci7.26215$4b5.6...@news6.giganews.com...

[JH]

"> I like to know what the canopy used by lisa?
> AJ
>

Crossfire.

[Craig Poxon]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:16:08 +0100, "AJ" <aro...@ip.pt> wrote:

>what the canopy?

Crossfire according to the Fatalities page

http://www.skydivenet.com/fatalities/fatalities_us_01.html

BSBD

--
Craig
D11665 FSB5
http://www.poxon.org/Craig/Skydive/

[Oren Kalb]

I jump an airlock canopy for that reason. Airlocks are a great safety
feature. They add additional stability in turbulent conditions. Despite what
some people think, that DOES NOT mean that you can jump in winds that you
wouldn't normally jump in, but it does handle bumps a whole lot better.

I have jumped all of the airlocked canopies on the market and would never
again own a canopy without them. I have put a hundred or so jumps on the
Vengeance and the same on a Samurai and a few on the Lotus. All are offer
spectacular stability. Personally, I own a Samurai. There is a great
description of airlocks on the Big Air web site. www.bigairsportz.com

-OK
D-22854

"Dave Miller" <dav...@nni.com> wrote in message

news:tom09ae...@corp.supernews.com...

[CRWMike]

Michael
D-6139

Estilo Rodriguez wrote:

> Conditions can be a factor in a lot of skydiving injuries(#1 being winds).

#1 is poor judgment ...sometimes it kills.

>
> We are the only ones that can make the desicion not to jump in unsafe winds
> both high or speratic. But if you want that extra blanket of security jump
> airlocks.

See above.

Michael
D-6139

[Fastsftail]

>I like to know what the canopy used by lisa?
>AJ

lisa's canopy was a crossfire loaded at
1.4 to 1. she battled with a ferocious rotor coming off the trees and did
EVERYTHING she could to land safely but lost.

(in anticipation of all the morons who will blame hook turns for this)
she was using a conservative carving approach from what turned out to be a bad
location.

i can't tell you how proud i am of everyone there, especially those who were
close to her.

[Fastsftail]

>I feel more comfortable in turbulent air under an air locked canopy because
>the canopy can not be instantly de-pressurized(Collapse!).

as everyone is saying,
there is a limit to what any canopy, (airlocked or not)
can do in turbulance. i have been caught in a rotor at a demo and slammed into
the ground from 8 to 10 feet on a highly loaded sweptwing.
had i been at 35 feet like lisa the outcome would probably have been the same.

[kim emerson]

She was doing a left hand turn on her Crossfire 89 (loaded at 1:1.4)
and it was her left side that collapsed three separate times. It only
looked like the right side from spectator's perspective, but it was
her left. It collapesed from the tail forward, collapsing three cells
entirely and the fourth about 99%, leaving the nose of the fourth
still inflated. But just the nose. Any forward movement she had was
largely momentum from the turn and not real flight anymore. She pretty
much fell as oppossed to flew. The trees there are about 70' or so and
this all took place below tree top level. So she was at about 50'maybe
when the first collapse occured.

po...@home.terminal.dk (Povl H. Pedersen) wrote in message news:<slrn9olgj...@home.terminal.dk>...
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:18:01 GMT,
> jerm <je...@undercanopy.com> wrote:
> >yes, she was in a dive on final to swoop the pond when the right side of her
> >canopy collaped below 100ft and never recovered. She was helo-lifted out to
> >the local trauma center and passed away shortly after. Prayers to her and
> >her family.
>
> Was she doing a left hand turn ? My question is, was it the inside
> or the outside side of the canopy that collapsed ? I would
> suspect the inside, as in a turn the outside ought to be faster to
> catch up ?

[Estilo Rodriguez]

You are very right my friend.
Peace ,
Estilo

"CRWMike" <CRW...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B8B9184...@Bellsouth.net...

[Will Packard]

Oren Kalb wrote:
>
> I jump an airlock canopy for that reason. Airlocks are a great safety
> feature. They add additional stability in turbulent conditions. Despite what
> some people think, that DOES NOT mean that you can jump in winds that you
> wouldn't normally jump in, but it does handle bumps a whole lot better.
>
> I have jumped all of the airlocked canopies on the market and would never
> again own a canopy without them. I have put a hundred or so jumps on the
> Vengeance and the same on a Samurai and a few on the Lotus. All are offer
> spectacular stability. Personally, I own a Samurai. There is a great
> description of airlocks on the Big Air web site. www.bigairsportz.com

<snip>

I might as well add my 2 cents:

I have to agree about the added safety margin that airlocks provide. The canopy
will stay "wing shaped" (read "useful") in much more extreme turbulence than a
non-airlocked canopy. I doubt that I'll ever buy a non-airlocked freefall canopy
again.

But, as others have said, airlocks don't let you ignore turbulence. Even 747's can
get seriously slammed around by turbulence. Rotors off obstacles are *extremely*
nasty, and no canopy (or rigid wing) is immune to the effect. I learned this
the hard way over a decade ago. Fortunately, I was jumping a relatively large
(by today's standards) canopy.

<moldyAnecdote>

I was milking all the glide I could get out of my canopy (a 165 sq. ft. 9-cell
F-111) to get back from a long spot. I was trying to avoid walking further than
I had to. The "best" place to land was partway down a grass runway, since the
grass wasn't cut everywhere else. Unfortunately, this left me about 40-50m
downwind of a stand of trees. It was very windy, and I was expecting turbulence
off the trees, so I left a little margin and did a relatively gentle front riser
turn to land. About halfway through the turn, I completely lost lift, and slammed
hard into the (grass) runway. One person who was watching on the ground saw my
whole canopy tilt downward as I entered the wall of descending air.

Thanks to a) a relatively slow canopy, b) the fact that my legs were very
developed in those days, and c) the fact that I had done and taught PLF's
for years, I got away with bruised heels and a broken nose (when I came to
a stop, I had grass in my mouth!).

I had been trying to avoid walking too far, and succeeded. Since I was
"bleeding from the head", I got a ride in an ambulance.

</moldyAnecdote>

Had I done this on one of the canopies I have now, I probably wouldn't have
survived.

Moral: Learn from other peoples' mistakes. You won't live to make them all
yourself.

Will

[Oren Kalb]

I agree that airlocks should do not let you ignore turbulence. As I stated,
that DOES NOT mean that you can jump in winds that you would normally not
jump in. All I was trying to say was that they give you an additional safety
margin and are worth considering if you are looking at new canopies.

-OK
D-22854

"Will Packard" <wi...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:3B8BC700...@nortelnetworks.com...

[Will Packard]

Oren Kalb wrote:
>
> I agree that airlocks should do not let you ignore turbulence. As I stated,
> that DOES NOT mean that you can jump in winds that you would normally not
> jump in. All I was trying to say was that they give you an additional safety
> margin and are worth considering if you are looking at new canopies.

<snip>

We're in violent agreement. What made you think that we weren't?

(I jump an airlocked canopy)

Will

[Oren Kalb]

just reiterating the obvious. so, we'll agree that we agree.

-OK

"Will Packard" <wi...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message

news:3B8BD8AD...@nortelnetworks.com...

[Estilo Rodriguez]

Oren, Will,
I couldn't agree with you guys more. I jump a Samurai. I stand firmly
behind Brian that this is a safer wing providing much more stablity in
turbukent air. But no canopy can save us from makning bad judgements, that
is up to us.
Estilo
"Oren Kalb" <ok...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:q2Ri7.87386$0X.16...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...

[Fastsftail]

>From: dzi...@hotmail.com (kim emerson)

>She was doing a left hand turn on her Crossfire 89 (loaded at 1:1.4)
>and it was her left side that

in case anyone is wondering how authoritative kim's description is, he is our
st&a.

[Will Packard]

Estilo Rodriguez wrote:
>
> Oren, Will,
> I couldn't agree with you guys more. I jump a Samurai. I stand firmly
> behind Brian that this is a safer wing providing much more stablity in
> turbukent air. But no canopy can save us from makning bad judgements, that
> is up to us.
> Estilo

<snip>

*sniff*

I think this calls for a group hug. :-)

Will

[Oren Kalb]

Estilo..I agree with you, but I think Will is just plain wrong ;-)

-OK

"Estilo Rodriguez" <free...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message

news:FURi7.188926$TM5.34...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...

[Estilo Rodriguez]

In what sense do you not agree with Will?
FlyFree,
Estilo

[Oren Kalb]

i'm kidding - i'm kidding! i really do agree with will!
-OK

"Estilo Rodriguez" <free...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message

news:07Ti7.46543$xj.99...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...

[Axe]

So how does this airlock inventor guy feels, that he sold exclusive
rights to his patent to one manufacturer, besides himself, and people
die as they choose to jump other canopies - that can not be fitted
with airlocks.. ?

Rant off: But what about crossporting? Would not it prevent end cell
full
collapse, as pressurization will be distributed. BASE canopies do
that,
Atair uses it.

What if I just hot knife a few inch diameter holes in the ribs of my
Safire?
What will happen?

"Oren Kalb" <ok...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<q2Ri7.87386$0X.16...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>...

[Oren Kalb]

I know that Brian did some testing a while back with crossporting like that
and there were some problems. I don't know any more than that and I am by no
means able to speak even reasonably intelligently about canopy design. Email
Brian and I am sure he will answer you. He is on the road at the moment, so
it may be a week or so before he gets back to you. If he read this I am sure
he would jump in, but like I said he is on the road for another week or so.

As for your rant, it was a simple business decision. There are several
canopies out there that have airlocks made by himself and that other
manufacturer. If you feel so strongly about airlocks, you can buy one of
those.

The other manufacturers were not interested in buying rights to use the
airlocks when the deal was originally made. People didn't believe in the
technology then. They do now!

-OK

"Axe" <a...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:b9855f0.01082...@posting.google.com...

[Fastsftail]

> axe@mindless

>So how does this airlock inventor guy feels, that he sold exclusive
>rights to his patent to one manufacturer, besides himself, and people
>die as they choose to jump other canopies - that can not be fitted
>with airlocks.. ?

what is fucking wrong with you beside the fact youre an idiot.

[TY]

Fastsftail wrote:

I like you, Bruce.

[Fastsftail]

> People didn't believe in the
>technology then. They do now!

axe's idiotic question really didn't require a response. i'm not sure brian
would appreciate your commercial tie-in for his airlocks with lisa's death.
there is absolutely no reason to believe that airlocks would have made any
difference here.

here's an idea; take your airlock discussion to a new thread.
here...i'll help you.

[Will Packard]

Axe wrote:
>
> So how does this airlock inventor guy feels, that he sold exclusive
> rights to his patent to one manufacturer, besides himself, and people
> die as they choose to jump other canopies - that can not be fitted
> with airlocks.. ?

It's the consumer's choice to get a canopy with airlocks or not. At the
moment, if you want airlocks, you will have to get a canopy from Big Air
Sportz or PD. Airlocks are considered important by some people and not
by others. What's the big deal?

> Rant off: But what about crossporting? Would not it prevent end cell
> full
> collapse, as pressurization will be distributed. BASE canopies do
> that,
> Atair uses it.

AFAIK, most canopies are still cross-ported. Cross-porting will help to
re-inflate collapsed cells, but won't necessarily prevent collapsed cells.

> What if I just hot knife a few inch diameter holes in the ribs of my
> Safire?
> What will happen?

<snip>

Why don't you try it and let us know what happens? :-)

Will

[axe]

aside from that fact, nothing.

Fastsftail <fasts...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010828182900...@mb-ca.aol.com...

[Mr. MOM]

>So how does this airlock inventor guy feels, that he sold exclusive
>rights to his patent to one manufacturer, besides himself, and people
>die as they choose to jump other canopies - that can not be fitted
>with airlocks.. ?

You hug trees and belong to PETA.......don't you !?!?

USPA SUCKS
Blue Skys and Godspeed,
Mr. MOM
http://www.moms-skyjumping.com/

The only guarantee in Skydiving is...you WILL land !

[Cajones Rodriguez]

"Axe" <a...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:b9855f0.01082...@posting.google.com...

> So how does this airlock inventor guy feels, that he sold exclusive
> rights to his patent to one manufacturer, besides himself, and people
> die as they choose to jump other canopies - that can not be fitted
> with airlocks.. ?
>

They choose their canopies. All we can do is help keep good information in
front of us before we make decisions. I'm sure Brian would love to have
every jumper jumping his airlocked canopies, but that's not very realistic.
Cajones
P.S. Just keep your hotknife away from my gear.

[TY]

axe wrote:

> aside from that fact, nothing.

hehehe

[D16842]

Our lord wrote:

> So, have you dismissed carrying materials? An occupation which will build
>your muscles?

You mean like being a mule, bringing said materials into the country? Pays a
lot, but seems to be short term work. But you are right, after you get to
prison you do have time for building muscles.

Tom B

[[K]rak]

In article <20010828204127...@mb-fx.aol.com>, d16...@aol.com
(D16842) wrote:

Guess it depends on the Cargo and how well I get paid for carrying said
material across the border.....hehehehe..Didn't some _other_ skydiver do
some jail time for that???? hehehe

--
[K]rak
Recently Banned @ Skydive Las Vegas

[LORD OF THE SKY]

[K]rak <rais...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:raisplin-280...@207-172-165-91.s91.tnt1.nywnj.ny.dialup.rcn.c
om...

>
> Guess it depends on the Cargo and how well I get paid for carrying said
> material across the border.....hehehehe..Didn't some _other_ skydiver do
> some jail time for that???? hehehe

Quite a few did ,Krak. And then again, a larger number never got
caught.

[Fastsftail]

>Axe wrote:
>>
>> So how does this airlock inventor guy feels, that he sold exclusive
>> rights to his patent

>It's the consumer's choice to get a canopy with airlocks or not.

pssst...will...it's just murph fucking with us.
got me too. nice troll (i'm beaming with pride)

[Fastsftail]

>aside from that fact, nothing.

nice troll murph.

[jandj]

John Mathews Samurai collapsed in Pahokee leaving him in a coma. Airlocks
have been in use on paraglaiding canopies and are not new technology and
will not guarentee a solid wing.

josh

Oren Kalb wrote in message

>I jump an airlock canopy for that reason. Airlocks are a great safety
>feature. They add additional stability in turbulent conditions. Despite
what

>some people think, that DOES NOT mean that you can jump in winds that you

>wouldn't normally jump in, but it does handle bumps a whole lot better.
>
>I have jumped all of the airlocked canopies on the market and would never
>again own a canopy without them. I have put a hundred or so jumps on the
>Vengeance and the same on a Samurai and a few on the Lotus. All are offer
>spectacular stability. Personally, I own a Samurai. There is a great
>description of airlocks on the Big Air web site. www.bigairsportz.com
>

>-OK
>D-22854
>
>
>"Dave Miller" <dav...@nni.com> wrote in message
>news:tom09ae...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Nick <nic...@dropzone.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 4:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: Accident at The Ranch?
>>
>> > is it common for a change in wind to collapse a canopy??
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>>
>> The comment about a change in wind was from the news paper so keep that
in
>> mind. I believe a collapsing canopy banged up Brian Germain pretty bad
>once
>> and that was the reason he developed the "air lock" canopy. It's supposed
>to
>> keep the canopy pressurized under turbulence. Anyone else want to add to
>or
>> correct this info.
>>
>> Good bye Lisa,
>> Dave Miller
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Axe]

There is nothing wrong with me, besides the fact that I paid slightest
attention to you. Your name is Bruce? Then, Bruce - go fuck yourself,
please.

To the normal part of the population: even though I clearly labeled
my rhethorical question as "rant", it is, actually, not a new, nor an
unimportant one. My apologies to airlock inventor, if he reads this,
ahm, "discussion" forum - I am sure that he is a great, honest guy,
well deserving any financial rewards from his inventions and more.
But - ethics of keeping potentially life saving inventions proprietory
is not a clear cut issue - be that drugs, locks or any other inventive
device.. In this case, lack of such feature on Lisa's canopy
"probably" was not the determining factor - and valve systems may have
lots of disadvantages. But that does not make my ethics question a
hollow one.

[Oren Kalb]

Nobody said they guarantee anything...as a matter of fact if you read the
posts we said quite the opposite. All we said is that they help. They offer
an additional margin of safety. Once again, it is your judgment that will
decide if you should jump or not.

John happens to be a friend. Why don't you ask him what he thinks? He'll
be at NIMR until the 7th.

All that being said, I was very sorry to hear about Lisa's death and I meant
no disrespect toward her or her family with anything I've said. I was
responding to comments made about airlocks, but would be happy to move that
to another thread.

-OK

"jandj" <dol...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5OYi7.2666$Fv3.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Estilo Rodriguez]

OK,
Go on with your bad self!! Finally things are straight.
Thank You:-) I think I know what John would say "I love Big Air Sportz".
FlyFree-FreeFly, "Go Big or Go Home"
Estilo

[Fastsftail]

>Your name is Bruce? Then, Bruce - go fuck yourself,
>please.

nice try murph

>But that does not make my ethics question a
>hollow one.

sure it does

[Alan Binnebose]

Buffoon. Have you even looked at your Safire? It is crossported, as are
virtually all canopies currently manufactured for sport parachuting. Atair
does NOT crossport the ribs near the end cells (I can't recall the exact
ones), and I am under the impression, they do that to improve the opening
characteristics of the canopy. Dan Preston at Atair would be more than
happy to give you information about this.

--
Blue Skies,
Alan Binnebose

"Axe" <a...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:b9855f0.01082...@posting.google.com...

[Alan Binnebose]

Probably be a few morons blaming the canopy as well. I can hear it now "
Gee, I was thinking about getting a Crossfire, but now........"

--
Blue Skies,
Alan Binnebose

"Fastsftail" <fasts...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010828094105...@mb-fb.aol.com...
> >I like to know what the canopy used by lisa?
> >AJ
>
> lisa's canopy was a crossfire loaded at
> 1.4 to 1. she battled with a ferocious rotor coming off the trees and did
> EVERYTHING she could to land safely but lost.
>
> (in anticipation of all the morons who will blame hook turns for this)
> she was using a conservative carving approach from what turned out to be a
bad
> location.
>
> i can't tell you how proud i am of everyone there, especially those who
were
> close to her.

[Fastsftail]

>Buffoon. Have you even looked at your Safire?

pssst...alan...troll.
ranch hand trying to get over but not quite slick enough, RIGHT MURPH?

[sitflyr]

"Axe" <a...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:b9855f0.01082...@posting.google.com...

And yet it is hollow, as well as inappropriate.

Julie

[murph]

aahhhhhh Bruce

psssst.

I only gigged the "from" line once. (I couldn't resist)

that really was your idiot friend come back to play.

hee hee

-murph

Fastsftail <fasts...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010829101552...@mb-cj.aol.com...

[Axe]

Well.. indeed - they are.. ;-) That's for switching topic mid post.

Fastfail - go away - and yes - I meant it.

[Noshi. T.]

PETA
??
People Eating Tasty Animals???

[Fastsftail]

>Fastfail - go away - and yes - I meant it.

you and muphy against me.
you don't have a hair on your ass.

[Fastsftail]

>
>aahhhhhh Bruce
>
>psssst.
>
>I only gigged the "from" line once. (I couldn't resist)

learn to resist.
if you ever fuck with one of my communications...i know where you live.

[murph]

Fastsftail <fasts...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010830183942...@mb-fh.aol.com...

> >Fastfail - go away - and yes - I meant it.
>
> you and muphy against me.
> you don't have a hair on your ass.

hey you got it backwards,
I, along with most here, think he's a moron as well

I saved the original post, not quite a top ten but certainly an
honorable mention in the hall of fame.

bsbd
-murph

[Peril]

can we get over the "accident" and get back to the skydivers who kicked ass,
1/2 the winners are my buddies, pay attention, to the talent, lament the sad
Fastsftail wrote in message <20010829153758...@mb-mh.aol.com>...

[bob]

i would suggest that you start another thread - the subject of this
thread is '*accident* at the ranch'...

as someone that knew lisa very well and will miss her greatly, i dont
really care about what else happened there...

"Peril" <Pe...@totcon.com> wrote in message news:<E_Dj7.32976$4b5.8...@news6.giganews.com>...