Way-out FAQ Comment.

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Barry Brumitt

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Oct 12, 1993, 9:41:29 AM10/12/93
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Um. I thought this section was clearly a joke.

Does anyone else agree with this reader's interpretation? I've removed
the reader's name, so as to keep this anonymous. I think this falls
within the realm of permissible nettiquete.

Unbeleivably,
Barry

[forward mail begins here]
> "How do you breathe during freefall?"
>
> -- Through genetically developed gills.
>
>This falls into the realm of urban folklore. One CAN breathe in freefall - if
>it were necessary. However, due to the high speed of terminal freefall (and
>much higher speeds in vertical freefall dives), the jumper's body is exposed to
>O2 molecules at a much higher rate than someone walking around on the ground.
>The body is able to absorb the necessary O2 through the skin. This is why
>jumpers flap their cheeks in freefall, it presents a larger surface area to the
>airstream for oxygen osmosis. Once under canopy, the jumper resumes breathing
>normally.
>
>This is also why jumpers do not jump on cloudy days or when they might risk
>going through clouds. The moisture in the clouds can condense on their exposed
>skin surfaces preventing the absorption of the necessary oxygen resulting in
>suffocation. AADs are recommended for jumpers in climates where weather is a
>factor.

Hello Barry,

Great FAQ, except for this part that I quoted. The body does NOT get its O2
via osmosis (there is no such thing as oxygen osmosis anyway. It's called
oxygen diffusion) through the skin, not even during freefall. The ONLY way to
get the oxygen necessary is to breathe. Of course, one can hold one's breath for
a few minutes if necessary, so if one forgets to breathe during a short free-
fall, one won't suffocate.

Besides, the urge to breathe, that is, the irresistible need to resume
breathing after holding one's breath for some minutes, is not caused primarily
by lack of oxygen, but by the excess of carbon dioxide CO2 in the body. Now,
if we assume we could get enough oxygen during freefall via transdermal
diffusion, we would still need to breathe because we'd still need to get rid
of the CO2 that would accumulate in the body tissues. So breathing is not just
to get oxygen in, it's also there to get the CO2 out.

I've jumped through hundreds of meters of cloud many times, so I can
definitely discredit the claim that clouds would cause suffocation of the
skydiver. I see no scientific backup to that claim, either.

Since the above quoted part of the FAQ is entirely balony, I (and others)
would appreciate if you removed it from the file. If kept there, it will
reduce the credibility of the rest of the FAQ.

Best Wishes,
[Name removed]
--
Barry Brumitt bel...@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu
Robotics Graduate Student PGP Available upon Request.
Field Robotics Center Phone: (412) 268-7144
Carnegie Mellon University "Who is John Galt?" $ Skydive!

Boring Disclaimer: The opinions contained herein do not necessarily
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= represent those of the FRC, SCS, RI or even CMU.


Glen Baker

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Oct 14, 1993, 10:40:17 AM10/14/93
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Barry Brumitt (bel...@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu) wrote:
> Um. I thought this section was clearly a joke.

Agreed. I thought it was rather amusing.

> Does anyone else agree with this reader's interpretation?

The reader is far too serious. Obviously hasn't been jumping enough and
is suffering from a vitamin B(eer) deficiency. Dr. Glen prescribes one
Giant Horny Gorilla followed by appropriate beverage consumption.

> Unbeleivably,

Indeed.

> [forward mail begins here]

> Since the above quoted part of the FAQ is entirely balony, I (and others)
> would appreciate if you removed it from the file.

I always love it when people speak for "others"...

..glen

Philip Yzarn de Louraille

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Oct 14, 1993, 11:16:56 AM10/14/93
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In article <BELBOZ.93O...@hoe.frc.ri.cmu.edu> bel...@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt) writes:
>Um. I thought this section was clearly a joke.
>
... deleted text ....

I agree that the text should be removed. I do not think that FAQs should
contain data that only experienced skydivers would see as jokes. After
all, FAQs are read by non-experienced people or by curious ones.


--
Philip Yzarn de Louraille Internet: yz...@chevron.com
UNIX Systems Specialist PROFS: (SMTP)YZARN
Chevron Information & Technology Co. Tel: (510) 842-2539
P.O. Box 5035, San Ramon, CA 94583

Richard Ross

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Oct 14, 1993, 6:09:00 PM10/14/93
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BE>Message-ID: <BELBOZ.93O...@hoe.frc.ri.cmu.edu>
BE>Newsgroup: rec.skydiving
BE>From: bel...@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt)
BE>Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

BE>Um. I thought this section was clearly a joke.

BE>Does anyone else agree with this reader's interpretation? I've removed
BE>the reader's name, so as to keep this anonymous. I think this falls
BE>within the realm of permissible nettiquete.

BE>Unbeleivably,
BE>Barry

No matter how rediculous or far out the joke is, somebody is going
to take it seriously. Don't let the density of one stuffed shirt
spoil the fun! leave it in!

Dont take life seriously, You'll never get out of it alive!


* SLMR 2.1a * Logic is neither an art or a science but a dodge

Bradley C. Spatz

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Oct 14, 1993, 11:56:29 PM10/14/93
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yz...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>
>I agree that the text should be removed. I do not think that FAQs should
>contain data that only experienced skydivers would see as jokes. After
>all, FAQs are read by non-experienced people or by curious ones.

I agree. This is tantamount to giving misinformation as a joke to
students in their FJC. So the guy didn't get the joke. Maybe he's a nerd.
Big deal. I don't think the entry should be in the FAQ.
--
Bradley C. Spatz Bytes: b...@cis.ufl.edu
Computer & Information Sciences Bits: uunet!uflorida!bcs
College of Engineering Waves: 904/392-1499
University of Florida "School IS hell." -- Matt Groening

Mel Andres

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Oct 15, 1993, 12:05:39 AM10/15/93
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In article <14...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> yz...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:

>I agree that the text should be removed. I do not think that FAQs should
>contain data that only experienced skydivers would see as jokes. After
>all, FAQs are read by non-experienced people or by curious ones.
>

I don't know, I kinda like it in there. It does show that we have a
sense on humor. And the FAQ is serious where the typical wuffo question
merits it. Besides, anyone who takes it seriously probably shouldn't
be considering skydiving.

--
+-----+
Mel Andres | # |
Customer Service Represenative | | internet:and...@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. +-----+ uucp: ...!sequent!andres

Jerry Sobieski

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Oct 15, 1993, 9:59:05 AM10/15/93
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In article <29l71d$6...@snoopy.cis.ufl.edu> b...@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Bradley C. Spatz) writes:
>yz...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>>
>>I agree that the text should be removed. I do not think that FAQs should
>>contain data that only experienced skydivers would see as jokes. After
>>all, FAQs are read by non-experienced people or by curious ones.
>
>I agree. This is tantamount to giving misinformation as a joke to
>students in their FJC. So the guy didn't get the joke. Maybe he's a nerd.
>Big deal. I don't think the entry should be in the FAQ.

Geez. You guys in Florida been hangin' around too many retirement homes.

"FAQ" stands for "Frequently Asked Questions", not First Jump Course,
or even The Truth As God Handed It Down.

Lets face it, "How do you breathe in freefall?" *is* a frequently
asked question. And the real answer: "Through your nose." sounds
downright snyde.

Besides, anybody who blindly believes everything they read, and after
reading a 2000 word essay on parachuting (found on the Internet no less),
go throw themselves out of an airplane with no further thought...well,
they are destined to sleep with the dinosaurs.

Life is is nothing but a constant struggle against boredom.

-16 way this weekend:-)
Jerry

--
Domain: jer...@umiacs.umd.edu Jerry Sobieski
UUCP: uunet!mimsy!jerrys University of Maryland
Phone: (301)405-6735 Institute for Advanced Computer Studies
College Park, Md 20742

Daniel Briggs

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Oct 15, 1993, 11:06:29 AM10/15/93
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In article <29mab9$p...@hyperion.umiacs.umd.edu>

jer...@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:
> >I agree. This is tantamount to giving misinformation as a joke to
> >students in their FJC. So the guy didn't get the joke. Maybe he's a nerd.
> >Big deal. I don't think the entry should be in the FAQ.
>
> Geez. You guys in Florida been hangin' around too many retirement homes.

Count me with Jerry here. It's funny, and part of being a skydiver is
having your leg pulled once or thrice at the drop zone. Keep it. But
in the spirit of compromise, how about if we add a sentence at the very
last part of that section.

[For the humor impared, the preceeding section is a joke. And the
Surgeon General has found that skydiving causes cancer in laboratory
rats, too.]

> -16 way this weekend:-)

Woah! This sounds positively transcendental. I mean, I grok 4 way. In
principle I follow 8 way and even 16 way. But how in the world do you
do -16 way? Do you fall upwards from the ground or something?

More BS than usual, this time.

Dan

--
| Daniel Briggs (dbr...@nrao.edu) | USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory | DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801 (505) 835-7391 |
Support the League for Programming Freedom (info from l...@uunet.uu.net)

Jim O'Sullivan

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Oct 15, 1993, 1:40:13 PM10/15/93
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In article 14...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com, yz...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>In article <BELBOZ.93O...@hoe.frc.ri.cmu.edu> bel...@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt) writes:
>>Um. I thought this section was clearly a joke.
>>
>.... deleted text ....

>
>I agree that the text should be removed. I do not think that FAQs should
>contain data that only experienced skydivers would see as jokes. After
>all, FAQs are read by non-experienced people or by curious ones.
>
>
>--
> Philip Yzarn de Louraille Internet: yz...@chevron.com
> UNIX Systems Specialist PROFS: (SMTP)YZARN
> Chevron Information & Technology Co. Tel: (510) 842-2539
> P.O. Box 5035, San Ramon, CA 94583


I too thought it was clearly a joke. But, given the state of science
education in the States (osmosis) and increasingly common acute humor impairment,
perhaps an asterisk and a disclaimer would be in order. But don't
sanitize the FAQ!

-Jim


Jerry Sobieski

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Oct 15, 1993, 2:53:15 PM10/15/93
to

>> -16 way this weekend:-)
>
>Woah! This sounds positively transcendental. I mean, I grok 4 way. In
>principle I follow 8 way and even 16 way. But how in the world do you
>do -16 way? Do you fall upwards from the ground or something?

Don't be a dweeb, Dan.

Jerry

(:-) <--for the brain dead.

Tim Reynolds

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Oct 15, 1993, 3:35:00 PM10/15/93
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I don't think it should be removed - it's too funny.

It wouldn't hurt, however, to add a statement like

This is OBVIOUSLY a joke. Breathing in freefall is no
problem.

I thought the smilies took care of that, but then, I read
news for a long time before I knew what :-) was supposed
to mean.

Tim

Pasi 'PJo' Jokela

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Oct 15, 1993, 4:52:07 PM10/15/93
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In <1993Oct15.0...@sequent.com> and...@sequent.com (Mel Andres) writes:
<...>

>Besides, anyone who takes it seriously probably shouldn't
>be considering skydiving.

Funny, I was going to say exactly the same thing (but you beat me to it
since our news server's spool area was full last night and I couldn't
post..:)

I read the FAQ before I knew nothing of skydiving (except what you can
"learn" from Point Break, hahah:) and it wasn't really difficult to realize
this part was a joke. So maybe my IQ is above average??

And even if someone DID take it seriously, it probably wouldn't put them
in any (additional) danger -- breathing happens quite naturally even in
free fall. ;)

PJo

John M Lieberman

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Oct 16, 1993, 3:51:50 PM10/16/93
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b...@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Bradley C. Spatz) writes:

>I agree. This is tantamount to giving misinformation as a joke to
>students in their FJC. So the guy didn't get the joke. Maybe he's a nerd.
>Big deal. I don't think the entry should be in the FAQ.
>--
>Bradley C. Spatz Bytes: b...@cis.ufl.edu

I don't really see what the problem is. First of all, the FAQ isn't a FJC. Second of all, whether or not the person swallows that one should have no bearing on their first jump, safety, etc. The upshot was that yes, you get plenty of oxygen and other fun things, so don't worry.

Besides, how many people can wiggle their cheeks at will (to get that extra oxygen)?

John

John M Lieberman

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Oct 16, 1993, 3:54:43 PM10/16/93
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dbr...@Mr-Hyde.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs) writes:

>[For the humor impared, the preceeding section is a joke. And the
>Surgeon General has found that skydiving causes cancer in laboratory
>rats, too.]

***WARNING***
The Surgeon General has determined that white laboratory mice cause cancer.

Quagga

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Oct 16, 1993, 10:13:58 AM10/16/93
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You mean these gills I developed -aren't- from skydiving? Uh-oh.. =)

Cheryl Douglas
Artist/Engineer/Irritant
Cybervid Corporation
Tactical Nuclear Weapons Division
Nashua NH USA

equus quagga.
qua...@trystero.com
\o/ "Ich habe festgestellt, das es N I C H T S gibt, was Deine
(( Aufmerksamkeit schneller und vollstaendiger fesselt, als ein
\\ sich nicht oeffender Fallschirm!" -moi. =)

Doug Puchalski

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Oct 18, 1993, 10:54:19 AM10/18/93
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In article <1993Oct15.0...@sequent.com>,

Mel Andres <and...@sequent.com> wrote:
>In article <14...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> yz...@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>
>>I agree that the text should be removed. I do not think that FAQs should
>>contain data that only experienced skydivers would see as jokes. After
>>all, FAQs are read by non-experienced people or by curious ones.
>>
> I don't know, I kinda like it in there. It does show that we have a
>sense on humor. And the FAQ is serious where the typical wuffo question
>merits it. Besides, anyone who takes it seriously probably shouldn't
>be considering skydiving.

I complained about this over a year ago. No, I did't think it was a joke.
Didn't believe it, but how could it be a joke? It's not funny.

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