Skydive Texas Complaints
base...@my-dejanews.com
until I shared my experience with some folks from my home DZ. I drove 350
miles two weekends in a row to skydive at this popular DZ, but because of
weather, I didn't get to jump. My friends and I made our introductions to
the DZ personnel so they would recognize us when we came back. We mistakenly
thought they would care.
So, over Thanksgiving, I went back out there to jump with a friend. We asked
several different people what the policies/procedures were with their
aircraft. The only thing anybody wanted to share was "Don't touch the door!"
Okay, I get it, don't touch the door - no problem. But, since we have never
jumped from a Porter, we were more concerned with how and when to exit.
While we were in the loading area, we asked again and we were told that there
would be a briefing before we loaded. Okay, we can wait...
Well, of course, there was no briefing about how to exit, exit order or
anything! We were a little frustrated by now, but we knew we still had
13,000 feet to communicate with the load master. So, I asked Sam Bishop who
was supposed to get out first and he made a wise-ass comment about how it
would be the people in the back. I clarified my question by pointing out
that there was a freeflyer, a two-way and an AFF group. We were in the door
(the two-way) and the freeflyer was in the co-pilot chair. I may still be
new to this sport but I have always heard freeflyers go first, so I thought
my question was reasonable. He finally told me that when the door opens, the
two-way gets out first. Okay, finally some information I can use.
My skydiving buddy decided to find out the best way to exit the plane and
asked the other AFF jumpmaster for recommendations. It was suggested we take
grips and dive out - cool and groovy - we can handle that. Realize that we
are not familiar with the Porter and it might take us a few seconds to get
settled on the step. Well, the pilot calls "door" and I am up and waiting
for the door to open so I won't take too long to climb out. He screams
"door" again and by now I realize *I* am supposed to open the door. Could
somebody have shared that with me before now? Well, we don't even have a
chance to get into our exit position without everyone yelling "Go, Go, Go!"
Can we have 2 seconds please?
If anyone from Skydive Texas is reading this, I hope they realize that they
need to clean up their performance when it comes to experienced skydivers
visiting their DZ. They need to tone down their case of "skygoditis." I have
posted this to warn other skydivers to think twice before wasting their hard
earned dollars at Texas.
My friend and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that we can find high
altitude jumps somewhere else. Perhaps other DZ operators will appreciate the
business...
Basebabe
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Mark_Harju
$.02 anyway...
I always get a briefing from the pilot if the S&TA isn't available. I
*never* get in an unfamiliar plane without a thorough briefing. It also
makes for good relations with the pilot - never know when that can get
you some extra 'tude...besides, as I've posted before, the only thing
pilots love more than themselves is compliments about their flying
skill... :-)
One day at my home DZ, manifest was really busy and said, "Mark, you'll
have to wait to ride. We don't have anybody to brief you on the
Caravan." I said, "No sweat. I got briefed by the pilot." Manifest said,
"Really? That's great. You saved us some time there. Saddle up." I guess
what I'm saying here is that to be fair, maybe they got busy and you
fell through the cracks. It could have happened any time to anybody.
Did you get a briefing about the DZ itself, maybe an aerial photo of the
target, outs, etc.?
Hope this doesn't offend, and I hope someone at Skydive Texas responds
to your complaint.
Fr33Fly g04t
you my opinions since it is my home DZ and I jump there every weekend.
On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:41:35 GMT, base...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>So, over Thanksgiving, I went back out there to jump with a friend. We asked
>several different people what the policies/procedures were with their
>aircraft. The only thing anybody wanted to share was "Don't touch the door!"
>Okay, I get it, don't touch the door - no problem. But, since we have never
>jumped from a Porter, we were more concerned with how and when to exit.
>While we were in the loading area, we asked again and we were told that there
>would be a briefing before we loaded. Okay, we can wait...
There should have been a briefing on exit order in the loading area.
Ask everybody in the loading area who the most experienced jumper on
that load is and they should be in charge of exit order. Keep in mind
that the JMs will usally be very busy with the student they are with.
As far as exit procedures. If you mentioned this in the loading area
and the most experienced person did not figure it out then it was his
fault (not the DZ as a whole.)
There is a porter mock-up in the back of the hanger that is exellent
for practice exits. Ask a non-busy JM or a regular jumper if they
could show you a good exit from the mock-up. Explain to them that you
have never jumped out of a porter.
>Well, of course, there was no briefing about how to exit, exit order or
>anything! We were a little frustrated by now, but we knew we still had
>13,000 feet to communicate with the load master. So, I asked Sam Bishop who
>was supposed to get out first and he made a wise-ass comment about how it
>would be the people in the back. I clarified my question by pointing out
>that there was a freeflyer, a two-way and an AFF group. We were in the door
>(the two-way) and the freeflyer was in the co-pilot chair. I may still be
>new to this sport but I have always heard freeflyers go first, so I thought
>my question was reasonable. He finally told me that when the door opens, the
>two-way gets out first. Okay, finally some information I can use.
It sounds like they did not realize you had not jumped a porter
before. Be sure and communicate this information to them. JMs are
very busy with students right before a jump and in the plane so they
usually are not much help. (Sam tends to get very flustered when he
gets busy.) Yes the freeflyer was suppost to get out first but the
seating arrangement did not allow that (the reason it should have been
figured out on the ground.)
>
>My skydiving buddy decided to find out the best way to exit the plane and
>asked the other AFF jumpmaster for recommendations. It was suggested we take
>grips and dive out - cool and groovy - we can handle that. Realize that we
>are not familiar with the Porter and it might take us a few seconds to get
>settled on the step.
Use the mock-up for practice on this. It is located in the rear of the
hangar. I'm sure that if you would have told a JM that this was your
first time out of a porter that they would have directed you to this.
> Well, the pilot calls "door" and I am up and waiting
>for the door to open so I won't take too long to climb out. He screams
>"door" again and by now I realize *I* am supposed to open the door. Could
>somebody have shared that with me before now?
Whoever is closest to the door is responsible for opening it. That
goes for all jump planes.
>If anyone from Skydive Texas is reading this, I hope they realize that they
>need to clean up their performance when it comes to experienced skydivers
>visiting their DZ. They need to tone down their case of "skygoditis." I have
>posted this to warn other skydivers to think twice before wasting their hard
>earned dollars at Texas.
>
>My friend and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that we can find high
>altitude jumps somewhere else. Perhaps other DZ operators will appreciate the
>business...
>
>Basebabe
I must say that this problem stems from a lack of communication
between the DZ and jumpers that are un-familiar with the DZ operating
procedures. I am sorry that you did not have a good experience while
at SD Texas.
Did you talk to the S&TA or Jean about this? They would have been
more than happy to help you out.
I have found SD Texas to be the friendliest and best DZ around the
metroplex. Were you there on Saturday? I did not see you around.
Come out again and I will personally go over the procedures or hook
you up with a qualified person to show you the ropes.
These are only my opinions and do not represent Skydive Texas.
Fr33Fly g04t
NCB #293 , NDB#1 (naked dim bulb)
nancy
IRA Pilot wrote in message <19981130192156...@ng53.aol.com>...
>> the only thing
>>pilots love more than themselves is compliments about their flying
>>skill... :-)
>
than
>that!
JOKE- Whats the difference between God and an aviator?
-God dosen't think hes an aviator. ar-ar.
>Patti
>D20833
IRA Pilot
>pilots love more than themselves is compliments about their flying
>skill... :-)
Oh my.......you are mistaken......there is a thing or two more important than
that!
Patti
D20833
IRA Pilot
>goes for all jump planes.
That is not necessarily so. In some planes such as some Cessnas, it is the
pilot's responsibilty and is placarded so on the door.
Patti
D20833
TooyT
>It also makes for good relations with the pilot - never know when that can get
>pilots love more than themselves is >compliments about their flying
I always tried to give the pilot a Wet Willy
didn't git altitude but it produced some fiine
Bob Sled rides, plus the side benifit that when
I gave the pilot a Snuffy briefing he listened
up. "Ewe fly the plane maggot, I'll spot!" :-) USS
TooyT
Wrote:
>JOKE- Whats the difference between God and an aviator?
>
> -God dosen't think hes an aviator. ar-ar.
>>Patti
>>D20833
How many aviators does it take to screw in a light bulb?
One. he holds the bulb and the universe revolves around him :-) Snuffy
Tom Beals
I will not laugh. I will not laugh. I will not laugh.
AGGGGGGGGG........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Fr33Fly g04t
Why did you come into a public forum and slam a DZ when you didnt even
take your problems up with the S&TA or the DZ manager first? I think
that is extremely rude. If you would of directed your complaint to
somebody that has the power to make actions happen then they would
have gone out of there way to make you happy at our DZ. Publicly
slamming a DZ before you try to get your problem resolved does nothing
but hurt the DZ and does nothing to resolve your problem. I also
heard that you were given a tour of the DZ a few weeks ago and that
the mock-up was shown to you. Why did you not use this resource
before you manifested and got on the plane?
I could sit here and slam your attitude and reputation from what has
been said about you by other local jumpers. But I will refrain from
doing so in a public forum becasue I would rather take it up in
private and from the source, the way it should be done.
An985
>y
>slamming a DZ before you try to get your problem resolved does nothing
>I could sit here and slam your attitude and reputation from what has
>been said about you by other local jumpers. But I will refrain from
>doing so in a public forum becasue I would rather take it up in
>private and from the source, the
sounds like you already slammed this person's (...reputation..)
get a grip!
ANN/S.F.
Bill Von Novak
>
>The more I think about your post the more fustrated I find myself.
>Why did you come into a public forum and slam a DZ when you didnt even
>take your problems up with the S&TA or the DZ manager first? I think
>that is extremely rude. If you would of directed your complaint to
>somebody that has the power to make actions happen then they would
>have gone out of there way to make you happy at our DZ. Publicly
why? some dz's suck, some are great. some people visit great dz's
and hate them. from her post, it sounded like she was used to people
telling her when to exit, where to sit etc. and this was not a DZ where
people get told when to exit. so she didn't like it. that's her right.
her post listed the things that happened. that's useful info,
especially to someone else who might want to go to skydive texas and get
told where to sit. they might either decide not to go there, or decide to
get there early so they can find the S+TA or DZO first.
>I could sit here and slam your attitude and reputation from what has
>been said about you by other local jumpers. But I will refrain from
>doing so in a public forum becasue I would rather take it up in
>private and from the source, the way it should be done.
so you explained that in public . . .
-bill von
Cris G
>I could sit here and slam your attitude and reputation from what has
>been said about you by other local jumpers.
And you know this to be truth because? 2nd hand info is always a useful tool
when publicly slandering someone.
>But I will refrain from
>doing so in a public forum becasue I would rather take it up in
>private and from the source, the way it should be done.
Contradict yourself much? Saying that you have ammo for slamming IS A SLAM. I
didn't think the post was much of a slam. I would still visit the DZ to see
for myself. And I think this is the perfect forum to ask if anyone else has
had a similar experience (which is exactly what was done). Maybe he / she
should have taken an add out in parachutist? Maybe that would be the proper
forum to discuss his / her experiences?
blue skies.
Cris
rnpilot
as a good reminder to be friendly and helpful to new people, even if
you aren't a jm, S&TA, etc. It can be really intimidating to go to a
new dz and not know who's who and the dz's SOP. Put the right people
together, maybe all having a bad day and it can easily be a nightmare
that isn't necessarily reflective of the whole. However, this will be
the impression the new person leaves the dz with. A little bit of
friendliness/helpfulness can go a very long way.
rnpilot
Thomas Kerler
> weather, I didn't get to jump. My friends and I made our introductions to
> the DZ personnel so they would recognize us when we came back. We mistakenly
> thought they would care.
some manifestors are truly incredible with
remembering names and faces - some are
just plain humans - like the rest of us ...
> 13,000 feet to communicate with the load master.
out of the dozen DZ's I been to so far I can
remember only one that occasionally designated
a load master on board. Some organize exit order
during boarding, but very often its up to the
jumpers themselves to figure out the exit order.
> was supposed to get out first and he made a wise-ass comment about how it
> would be the people in the back.
funny :^)
> that there was a freeflyer, a two-way and an AFF group. We were in the door
> (the two-way) and the freeflyer was in the co-pilot chair.
what about talking to the freeflyer? what about talking to
the people left and right of you. "hey dude - you go out
before or after us? how much separation do you want? do
you have a clue what the winds at alt. are? etc."
That's a good habit to get in - cause sometimes you will
discover that the people jumping out before and after you
might be even more clueless about what they are doing
than you are or you get a better idea what to look out for.
Learn some basics about what are reasonable exit orders
and separations and what the important factors are so that
you're able to make a few basic decisions yourself when the
situation demands it. Skratch Garrison is posting some
really nice expositions on exit order and separation here on
rec.skydiving from time to time - go to www.dejanews.com
to retrieve them.
> asked the other AFF jumpmaster for recommendations. It was suggested we take
> grips and dive out - cool and groovy - we can handle that.
nice of the JM to give advices - don't you think?
> for the door to open so I won't take too long to climb out. He screams
> "door" again and by now I realize *I* am supposed to open the door. Could
> somebody have shared that with me before now? Well, we don't even have a
> chance to get into our exit position without everyone yelling "Go, Go, Go!"
miscommunications happen - the trick is to resolve them as they
come and not to get unnecessarily upset about them. And maybe it's
understandable when people get a little excited in the moment when
they're on jump run and everyone is worried about the spot - why
take that so personal.
BTW, you should try to a bit heads-up about a pilot yelling commands
at you or also other skydivers yelling things at you. This could've
also been an emergency of some sort, where everybody's life could have
depended on you opening and/or getting out of the door quickly, or you
moving to some other spot on the plane, or containing someone's pilot
or main chute that has escaped its container, etc.
> If anyone from Skydive Texas is reading this, I hope they realize that they
> need to clean up their performance when it comes to experienced skydivers
> visiting their DZ.
I've never been in Texas, but from your description I can see no reason
why I wouldn't want to go to Skydive Texas.
Often when I come to a new DZ I try to hook up with a few locals there
to do a simple 3-way or something. Many times you can find a solo jumper,
mostly a low-timer, or a two-way, who are not too serious about things,
either by asking at manifest or by picking them out in the boarding area.
That's about the best way to learn about the local customs and procedures,
which even a local newbie should know, and you also get to know a few new
people.
--
Blue Skies, Thomas D-20874 Muff#2160
http://www.osu.edu/students/skydiving/
http://www.skydiveohio.com/
Some Basic RW-Skills:"... To be more to the point: If you
don't have anything positive to say, then say nothing.
If you cannot come across with good vibes, then keep the
negative things to yourself. Don't spit in the soup that
you'll have to eat later. ..."
Pat Works (The Art of Freefall Relative Work)
jaime
>So, over Thanksgiving, I went back out there to jump with a friend. We
asked
>several different people what the policies/procedures were with their
>aircraft. The only thing anybody wanted to share was "Don't touch the
door!"
>Okay, I get it, don't touch the door - no problem. But, since we have
never
>jumped from a Porter, we were more concerned with how and when to exit.
>While we were in the loading area, we asked again and we were told that
there
>would be a briefing before we loaded. Okay, we can wait...
There is usually one hour or more of wait between loads at skydive TX, I
can't believe that you couldn't found a person to explain you or guide you
on all your questions.
I see your point, but I think that your complains are most your fault since
you didn't insist or ask in finding the procedures for exiting the
aircraft. I don't think you are going to find a DZ with chaperones all over
the place to walk you through everything as soon as you walk in .....
Also, I wouldn't jump if I don't feel confident of the procedures of any
aircraft or DZ especially if I consider myself a experience skydiver. I
don't want to hurt myself, others or have a bad experience of any kind.
As for the skygoditis....This is the most friendly place I 've ever been.
You can hook up with almost anybody to make a jump. But...., that is always
up to you and how friendly you want to be.
>
>If anyone from Skydive Texas is reading this, I hope they realize that they
>need to clean up their performance when it comes to experienced skydivers
>visiting their DZ. They need to tone down their case of "skygoditis." I
have
>posted this to warn other skydivers to think twice before wasting their
hard
>earned dollars at Texas.
>
>My friend and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that we can find
high
>altitude jumps somewhere else. Perhaps other DZ operators will appreciate
the
>business...
>
>Basebabe
>
SJS
<73uhrq$ed4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> Has anyone had bad experiences at Skydive Texas? I thought it was just
me
> until I shared my experience with some folks from my home DZ.
Oh yeah. Skydive Texas, great facilities, good aircraft and some ( not all
) people with bad attitudes that think skydiving isn't supposed to be fun.
Unfortunately those with bad attitudes go outta their way to make others
miserable.
Next time you're thinking of a road trip this way, you gotta go to North
Texas Skydiving Center in Gainesville. I hear the DC-3 is staying through
at least next summer. Oh yeah, if you come, bring beer, cause if you
haven't gotten your SCR, you're gonna.
Ken
Fr33Fly g04t
>Contradict yourself much? Saying that you have ammo for slamming IS A SLAM. I
>didn't think the post was much of a slam.
<snip>
>blue skies.
>Cris
How am I contradicting myself when I never revealed information on
what had been said about her? I could have been told that she is the
nicest most laid back person in the world, I didnt say that. Nor did
I say the opposite. I was making an example that some subjects should
be taken up personaly before they are shouted out in public.
When she said experienced jumpers should consider taking their money
elswhere and said all of the jumpers have "skygoditis" I did take that
as a slam.
If your wondering why I sound so pissed, it's becasue I have a totaly
different view of the people at SD Texas. They are my second family
and when somebody says they all have skydogitis that is like calling
my family members assholes. Everybody out there on the weekends are
the nicest most accepting people that I have ever met. Sure there are
the exceptions that will respond with smart ass remarks (which she ran
into.)
By the way, I am going to print out the original post and give it to
the appropriate people at the DZ.
SJS
<741sjn$p7m$1...@excalibur.flash.net>...
> There is usually one hour or more of wait between loads at skydive TX, I
> can't believe that you couldn't found a person to explain you or guide
you
> on all your questions.
Wow, one hour or more wait between loads????????? What's the deal? No
wonder they called around this summer reminding everyone that used to jump
there that they "were still open."
> Also, I wouldn't jump if I don't feel confident of the procedures of any
> aircraft or DZ especially if I consider myself a experience skydiver. I
> don't want to hurt myself, others or have a bad experience of any kind.
You'd better make that decision before getting on the plane. Remember the
Porter dive that popped 5 FXC's?
Ken
jaime
believe saturday they were about 23 loads on the porter plus whatever loads
the cessna did and that is counting high winds and clouds.
SJS wrote in message <01be1d83$6f2b9100$7f0edfd1@default>...
>jaime <ja...@longbow.net> wrote in article
><741sjn$p7m$1...@excalibur.flash.net>...
>> There is usually one hour or more of wait between loads at skydive TX, I
>> can't believe that you couldn't found a person to explain you or guide
>you
>> on all your questions.
>
>Wow, one hour or more wait between loads????????? What's the deal? No
>wonder they called around this summer reminding everyone that used to jump
>there that they "were still open."
This place has more life and soul than a bunch of others.
TooyT
Wrote:
>that is extremely rude. If you would of directed your complaint to
>somebody that has the power to make actions happen then they would
>have gone out of there way to make you happy at our DZ.
I find my sensativitys torn here yer asking
the kid to whine to a DZO? Much more fun
to be a world wide whine and I am appalled
that a homo saipien wud need to be briefed
on how to open a Porter door, possibly the
easiest jump plane door to open.yhujklhygtfdgujhgffdfvgh,mnbvcxzcv ,mkmk c x
vvvvyttgtfrdsem, nj mkvxz m vx vvvx. Any wonder I call the new brand of
Skydiver Sheep? Plus no one gave the pilot a wet willie, Apalled appaled oh the
horror
The sport is wussing out. Rude used to be
a sign of great affection :-P snuffy
Zllafeerf
friendly or not....whatever DZ....
you must take the initiative and ask questions...
if you don't ...then shame on you.....
fun fun fun YahOOOOOOO!
Cris G
>How am I contradicting myself when I never revealed information on
>what had been said about her? I could have been told that she is the
>nicest most laid back person in the world, I didnt say that. Nor did
>I say the opposite.
You said that you COULD slam her with the information you were given.. That
implies that you were given information which would make her less than
honorable.
If you have any other questions about what you wrote, just let me know.
>Everybody out there on the weekends are
>the nicest most accepting people that I have ever met. Sure there are
>the exceptions that will respond with smart ass remarks (which she ran
>into.)
Maybe she was referring to you. 1 out 10 people is strange. Gather 9 of your
friends, if they're alright, then it's you.
blue skies.
Cris
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
what I can. I don't agree with some of what she said and I definitely would
have taken it up with someone there first. You are right about it being a
public slam although I don't think it was really that bad. Well, except for
the part about jumping somewhere else.
As far as a tour goes it was dark when we got it and all we got was "here is
the hanger, manifest, and classrooms and there are the planes. No beer in
the hanger" except for the one in is hand, of course. We found the mockup
ourselves the next day and Sam (the manager?) did come talk to us again, but
not about load or exit proceedures. The only info we were given about the DZ
and landing area itself was not from anyone representing Skydive Texas, but
from someone we knew from our home DZ. It was all friendly enough, but not
very informative. In fact each time we were there, we were treated just fine
by the people on the ground. It was when we manifested and got ready to load
up that we felt short-changed and concerned.
We made it very clear to everyone whose attention we could get that this was
our first jump at this DZ and from this kind of plane. Each time we asked,
we were told that we would be briefed before the load went up (and don't
touch the door.) For safety and efficiency sake we had no reason to expect
that things would happen otherwise. But they did.
The plane pulled up and everyone rushed over and climbed in. No matter how
much sleeve tugging and shoulder tapping we did, we couldn't get any
response. No discussion of pull altitude or exit separation or spot or
winds, just don't touch the door and get in. We knew there was a freeflyer
on the load, so we asked about exit order and all we got was a smart-assed
remark. They told us we would have to exit very quickly, so I asked the
other JM what would be the easiest and fastest way to exit our 2-way. He
suggested a dive out from the step. But when the door opened (another
irritating story in itself) the step seemed a whole lot further away than it
had on the mockup. It took us a second or two to get our asses off the floor
and our feet on the step. The whole time someone yelling GO! GO! GO! Our
exit sucked. As did our whole first jump at SDT experience.
I don't know what you are referring to by "attitude and reputation" because
we only met a couple of people there. I don't go out of my way to meet
people and I don't intend to piss them off either. I hope this isn't going
to turn into some ugly public slam fest. I have (or had, depending) every
intention of returning to try to jump there again. As I said before, I don't
agree with everything she said, but I do know why she felt the need to say
it.
Jason A-30174
In article <36642ed2...@news.onramp.net>,
t3...@hotmail.com (Fr33Fly g04t) wrote:
> The more I think about your post the more fustrated I find myself.
> Why did you come into a public forum and slam a DZ when you didnt even
> take your problems up with the S&TA or the DZ manager first? I think
> that is extremely rude. If you would of directed your complaint to
> somebody that has the power to make actions happen then they would
> have gone out of there way to make you happy at our DZ. Publicly
> slamming a DZ before you try to get your problem resolved does nothing
> but hurt the DZ and does nothing to resolve your problem. I also
> heard that you were given a tour of the DZ a few weeks ago and that
> the mock-up was shown to you. Why did you not use this resource
> before you manifested and got on the plane?
>
> I could sit here and slam your attitude and reputation from what has
> been said about you by other local jumpers. But I will refrain from
> doing so in a public forum becasue I would rather take it up in
> private and from the source, the way it should be done.
>
> Fr33Fly g04t
> NCB #293 , NDB#1 (naked dim bulb)
>
>
--
Jason A-30174
"Some people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths" - Stephen
Wright
TooyT
>Date: 12/2/98 Wrote:
>We found the mockup
>ourselves the next day and Sam (the manager?) did come talk to us again, but
>not about load or exit proceedures. The only info we were given about the DZ
>and landing area itself was not from anyone representing Skydive Texas, but
>from someone we knew from our home DZ. It was all friendly enough, but
not
>very informative. In fact each time we were there, we were treated just fine
>by the people on the ground. It was when we manifested and got ready to load
>up that we felt short-changed and concerned.
>
>We made it very clear to everyone whose attention we could get that this was
>our first jump at this DZ and from this kind of plane. Each time we
asked,
>we were told that we would be briefed before the load went up (and don't
>touch the door.) For safety and efficiency sake we had no reason to expect
>that things would happen otherwise. But they did.
>
>The plane pulled up and everyone rushed over and climbed in. No matter how
>much sleeve tugging and shoulder tapping we did, we couldn't get any
>response. No discussion of pull altitude or exit separation or spot or
***********************************
Yawl know, this thread points to the fault
of AFF, Tandem, DZ babysitting and raising
wuss's. A skydiver art not to leave their home
DZ if they cain't take care of theirself. If
they cain't spot, open a door on a jump plane when the pilot hollars door or
have the balls
to slap a stick in exit order line they need
to stay at their home DZ till they learn
sumthang. You need to be able to take care
of yourself in this sport, appears quite a few
Novices ain't being taught the hard ways
get out there and find the world ain't a perfect
place. Think maybe I need to unretire and
run a BOOTCAMP for these wussys. Thats
what you git for Not learning at a DZ that
treats you like the real world. Boo focking
hoo. Buncha Leg Sheep, how in the world
ewe exspect to survive at Quincy or a get
down get dirty boogie. People go to the DZ
to jump, not to baby sit yer uneddycated
little butts GET TUFF OR STAY HOME
Pougey baits. If ewe cain't think on
your feet or be assertive how the hell
can you jump right? :-P snuffy
Whar did that Tandem/AFF 11 jump wonder go? Come back and moon us again
Kid! Ewe may not know diddle squat but ewe got style :-) Unkle Snuffy D17105
Lew Douva
In a way, that's not a bad idea, Snuffy. If the FJC took the more thorough
"survival" training style of military airborne school and transferred it to
sport parachuting, there probably wouldn't be as many accidents, fatalities,
misunderstandings; etc. Those military boys spend three weeks learning to do a
static line under a round. Sure, they have to learn how to do it from low
altitude with people shooting at them, but you can be pretty sure they know
what they're doing on exit. I'm not saying JM's should become drill sergeants,
but the sport might benefit from a more thorough basic training. I know I
should probably be the poster child for pots who call the kettle black; I
graduated AFF in three days, but I've seen and heard about too many accidents
and close calls that just go against what should come second nature to a well
trained jumper. Basic survival skills should be burned into a student's
subconscious before they ever make their first jump. I've had one reserve
ride, and I reacted pretty well, but I keep wondering how I'll respond in a
different type of situation (i.e. realizing I'm about to downwind it at 50ft.).
I don't think jumpers should ever have to question their ability to handle any
situation quickly and correctly. Obviously I KNOW I shouldn't try to make a
hard turn at 50ft., but what will my instincts tell me if and when the
situation arises. Right now, the only thing that INSTINCTIVELY comes to mind
is "land into the wind!"
--Douva
B-21806
Actually, I was once on the first load up after a bad hook turn accident, and I
was so paranoid about making a low turn that I downwinded it from about 300ft.,
but I don't think that could really be construed as an accurate example of how
I might handle the for-mentioned situation.
kr...@philly.infi.net
to...@aol.com (TooyT) wrote:
> Yawl know, this thread points to the fault
> of AFF, Tandem, DZ babysitting and raising
> wuss's. A skydiver art not to leave their home
> DZ if they cain't take care of theirself. If
> they cain't spot, open a door on a jump plane when the pilot hollars door or
> have the balls
> to slap a stick in exit order line they need
> to stay at their home DZ till they learn
> sumthang. You need to be able to take care
> of yourself in this sport, appears quite a few
> Novices ain't being taught the hard ways
> get out there and find the world ain't a perfect
> place.
Well, of course we have to know how to take care of ourselves in this sport,
Snuff ... that goes without saying. But, it would seem to me that a little
"briefing" for newcomers at any dz should be in order.
I've not jumped at that many dz's, but I can say that at every single one of
them I've visited, I was shown an aerial photograph of the dz, had the landing
areas pointed out to me, was shown where the good alternates were in case I
needed them, and had the general dz protocol explained to me. That's as it
should be.
We jump at one place all the time. That one place, our home dz, has its own
ways of doing things. This goes for both upjumpers and students. One dz I
did a student progression at taught their students to defer to the jm's in
all matters of safety. For example, a student does not approach the aircraft
until the jm signals him that it is okay to do so. When I went to another
dz, a dz that fostered more independence on its students, I found that this
"tradition" no longer worked. "When were you planning to board the
aircraft?" I was asked in my debrief. "You need to take more initiative ...
more responsibility for your own safety." Good advice ... but just a
different way of doing things from that which I was previously taught.
The same goes for upjumpers. Opening the door, setting up the exit order, and
landing "etiquette" are all things that can be handled in different ways. One
dz may have a pilot who doesn't like any skydivers to touch his door. He may
prefer to reach over from his position in the Cessna and open it himself.
Another dz, using the exact same aircraft, may have a pilot who wants a jumper
to take care of that detail.
All the dz's I've visited have also had staffs that kept an eye on newbies
... for at least their first couple of jumps anyway. At Cleveland Parachute
Center, during my routine gear check procedure, the fact that I had
experienced my first malfunction a few months prior came to light. One of
the staff riggers agreed to keep an eye on me and assist me with any problems
I encountered while packing. At another dz, Skydive Arizona ... a kindly
staff member encouraged to use an alternate landing area after it came to
light that I was extremely uncomfortable landing in their primary one ... one
populated by much more canopy traffic than I was used to.
But, no matter what a jumper's experience level, a good briefing upon check-in
for visiting jumpers can resolve a lot of potential problems, and make for a
much nicer, much more pleasant visit.
Blue ones!
--rita
skys...@my-dejanews.com
> what you git for Not learning at a DZ that
> treats you like the real world. Boo focking
> hoo. Buncha Leg Sheep, how in the world
> ewe exspect to survive at Quincy or a get
> down get dirty boogie. People go to the DZ
> to jump, not to baby sit yer uneddycated
> little butts GET TUFF OR STAY HOME
> Pougey baits. If ewe cain't think on
> your feet or be assertive how the hell
> can you jump right? :-P snuffy
Alright! Go for it Snuffy! Were and when do we sign up for the course? What
are ya gonna call it? How about Unkle Snuffy's Bootcamp for Anal Dumbshit
Sheep or USBADS for short. There ya go snuffy you're USBADS #1!
--
Bill S.
D13096; AFF/SLI-98
We are never lost, we are always directly above the center of the Earth.
base...@my-dejanews.com
> When she said experienced jumpers should consider taking their money
> elswhere and said all of the jumpers have "skygoditis" I did take that
> as a slam.
I think you need to review what I really said and you will discover that I did
NOT say *all* of the jumpers have skygoditis. Thanks for double checking...
> If your wondering why I sound so pissed, it's becasue I have a totaly
> different view of the people at SD Texas. They are my second family
> and when somebody says they all have skydogitis that is like calling
> my family members assholes.
I feel the same way about my home DZ (Westex Skysports), but I am also very
aware of everyone's faults there and would not take offense if a visiting
jumper pointed them out, especially if they had a bad experience. It's great
that you want to defend them, but realize that they are a business and
therefore must conduct themselves in a professional manner.
> By the way, I am going to print out the original post and give it to
> the appropriate people at the DZ.
Would that be Tom and Jean Bishop or maybe their son, Sam? Good because Sam
was on my load and Tom was flying. Should be interesting...
Christine Hooten
A-30278
Jennifer Richter
and when I get a new jumper in, I take his/her vitals, then go get an
intructor myself, introduce them and ask the instructor to please show the
jumper around, show them the arial and where the obstacles are,...etc. Yes
jumpers should be responsible for themselves but I really believe that staff
must also take the ball.....just my opinion.
Jen
base...@my-dejanews.com
Skydive Texas. I have had a lot of great suggestions for other DZs and also
some great advise on how to handle this in the future.
One thing I did want to clear up because the majority of my email and the
postings have pointed out that I should have asked my questions prior to
loading. My friend and I asked several people these questions before gearing
up and in the loading area, but were consistently told that the briefing would
occur before loading the aircraft. Being new to the DZ, we had no reason to
believe it would happen any other way. Believe when I say that I am not the
shy, quiet type and I *do* ask questions when I am uncomfortable or unsure.
To be fair, I want to point out that on one of our earlier visits to Skydive
Texas, Sam Bishop (DZ manager?) gave us a tour of the hanger - you know,
classrooms, lounge, video room, packing area, etc. This was great. Also,
Zack Lewis, a local jumper, pointed out the landing area, outs, Farmer
McNasty, etc. With this kind of friendliness in our earlier visits, we
thought we would have a good time and that's why we were so shocked at how it
really went down.
My story was meant to provide information helpful to other jumpers and also
to the DZ itself. As far as talking to the DZ management after the
experience, I guess I should have done that, but realize that the DZO was
flying the plane and the DZO's son was a JM on the load. What kind of
response do you really think I would have gotten? Next time, I will give
them the opportunity and the benefit of the doubt.
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
We are both static line graduates from a single Cessna DZ. We have never
done a tandem or an AFF jump. I guess we have led a sheltered life though.
We spot and organize our own load when its necessary and we open the door
when its time. Of course, we have never been told not to touch the door
either. And since we don't have AFF or many freeflyers this was a whole new
load experience.
I know, whine whine. The whole point of going there was to experince some of
the big wide world. Now that we have been burned once, we will be a little
bolder next time.
> Yawl know, this thread points to the fault
> of AFF, Tandem, DZ babysitting and raising
> wuss's. A skydiver art not to leave their home
> DZ if they cain't take care of theirself. If
> they cain't spot, open a door on a jump plane when the pilot hollars door or
> have the balls
> to slap a stick in exit order line they need
> to stay at their home DZ till they learn
> sumthang. You need to be able to take care
> of yourself in this sport, appears quite a few
> Novices ain't being taught the hard ways
> get out there and find the world ain't a perfect
> place. Think maybe I need to unretire and
> run a BOOTCAMP for these wussys. Thats
> what you git for Not learning at a DZ that
> treats you like the real world. Boo focking
> hoo. Buncha Leg Sheep, how in the world
> ewe exspect to survive at Quincy or a get
> down get dirty boogie. People go to the DZ
> to jump, not to baby sit yer uneddycated
> little butts GET TUFF OR STAY HOME
> Pougey baits. If ewe cain't think on
> your feet or be assertive how the hell
> can you jump right? :-P snuffy
>
> Whar did that Tandem/AFF 11 jump wonder go? Come back and moon us again
> Kid! Ewe may not know diddle squat but ewe got style :-) Unkle Snuffy D17105
>
>
--
Jason A-30174
TooyT
>In a way, that's not a bad idea, Snuffy. If the FJC took the more thorough
I think it might be a better idea if they stay at
their home DZ till they rack up enuff jumps
to take care of theirself on the road. This is
prolly frum the same types who whine about
night jumps and water training. Saying its
no longer needed. Yet here we have classic
examples of jumpers who can't handle the stress of not being led by the hand
like a
bunch of FJS. I wonder who signed them off
student status? They should have a leave
your home DZ status. Like when they can take care of theirself under extream
circumstances they can jump elsewhere.
I traveled from DZ to DZ & Boogie to
boogie a lot. Some DZtake an interest in
these visitor subliminal fears, others just
say shut up and jump, same way with local
jumpers some will include you and try to
show you the local ropes some won't. You
need to be a C or D to travel or a self
suffeceint person cuz their are 53 jump Bozo's out there that will lead you
astray
if ewe ain't street wise. These particular
Wussy's prolly worry more about their gear
matching and second grade playground rules
than they do about being good allround jumpers. Yeah they need boot camp or
some kind of shock training to mature them alright! Cuz they gonna get hurt
fer sure. :-P snuffy
TooyT
>Me personally, I run manifest,
>and when I get a new jumper in, I take his/her vitals, then go get an
>intructor myself, introduce them and ask the instructor to please show the
>jumper around, show them the arial and where the obstacles are,...etc. Yes
Unfortunatly all DZ's don't have primo staff
and even the best DZ's let things slip through
the cracks. Us combat zoo jumpers used to find the ocassional ferin and I mean
Eu ferin
jumper setting there in the Otter watching
us dirt dive on the way to altitude. We would
say hey ewe focking ferriner you want in on
this? Put them in base and go. A JM or sum
deguello wack wud report us to the S&TA
Before ewe knew it the ferriner wud have
a staff person looking out for them, protecting
them from the Flail pigs. :) But every DZ
ain't got a small hardcore group of problem
jumpers they have to spy on all the time,
so they miss these confused scared off DZ
people who may not even be able to speak
english and rescue them from theirselves or
the Coyote pack. The best DZ's always have
a few old Lifeguard types around to be
sheep dogs fer stray sheep. But these kids
that went to Skydive Texas shudda stayed home because they are helpless and
apparently Skydive Texas ain't set up to babysit wennie's :-) snuffy
TooyT
Wrote:
>(TooyT) wrote:
>> Think maybe I need to unretire and
>> what you git for Not learning at a DZ that
>> treats you like the real world. Boo focking
>> hoo. Buncha Leg Sheep, how in the world
>> ewe exspect to survive at Quincy or a get
>> down get dirty boogie. People go to the DZ
>> to jump, not to baby sit yer uneddycated
>> little butts GET TUFF OR STAY HOME
>> Pougey baits. If ewe cain't think on
>> your feet or be assertive how the hell
>> can you jump right? :-P snuffy
>
>are ya gonna call it? How about Unkle Snuffy's Bootcamp for Anal Dumbshit
>Sheep or USBADS for short. There ya go snuffy you're USBADS #1!
>
>--
>Bill S.
>D13096; AFF/SLI-98
>We are never lost, we are always directly above the center of the Earth.
I dunno how about Coyote sheep humping
school: :) No charge other than buy yer own damn jump ticket and do pushups or
quit if
I git on them wussy ass's. A neutral DZ
somewhere in the boonies. Everybody spots
and walks the spot good bad or indifferent,
Everybody opens the damn door, everybody
takes turns messing with the DZO, S&TA &
pilots. No wallflowers. First sheep to point a finger, whine, scream or bitch
besides me
does a 5 mile cross country run. If the sheep
are doing too good then I up the anti and put them out 10 miles from the DZ
without money
or windblades. Field packing class's daily
I bet the wennies don't even know how to daisy chain their lines. I see any
shit packing it
gets dumped in front of the group and we
do Mass pushups. Any crybabies get hung
from the hanger rafters by their heels! :-P snuffy
jaime
I did my static line training with the french military and they would kick
my ass every time I screwed up, if I wasn't paying attention or else. This
is a serious sport, no chaperones around.
TooyT wrote in message <19981202013617...@ng14.aol.com>...
>>From: jsc...@my-dejanews.com
>>Date: 12/2/98 Wrote:
>
>>We found the mockup
>>ourselves the next day and Sam (the manager?) did come talk to us again,
but
>>not about load or exit proceedures. The only info we were given about the
DZ
>>and landing area itself was not from anyone representing Skydive Texas,
but
>>from someone we knew from our home DZ. It was all friendly enough, but
>not
>>very informative. In fact each time we were there, we were treated just
fine
>>by the people on the ground. It was when we manifested and got ready to
load
>>up that we felt short-changed and concerned.
>>
>>We made it very clear to everyone whose attention we could get that this
was
>>our first jump at this DZ and from this kind of plane. Each time we
>asked,
>>we were told that we would be briefed before the load went up (and don't
>>touch the door.) For safety and efficiency sake we had no reason to
expect
>>that things would happen otherwise. But they did.
>>
>>The plane pulled up and everyone rushed over and climbed in. No matter
how
>
>>much sleeve tugging and shoulder tapping we did, we couldn't get any
>>response. No discussion of pull altitude or exit separation or spot or
>***********************************
>Yawl know, this thread points to the fault
>of AFF, Tandem, DZ babysitting and raising
>wuss's. A skydiver art not to leave their home
>DZ if they cain't take care of theirself. If
>they cain't spot, open a door on a jump plane when the pilot hollars door
or
>have the balls
>to slap a stick in exit order line they need
>to stay at their home DZ till they learn
>sumthang. You need to be able to take care
>of yourself in this sport, appears quite a few
>Novices ain't being taught the hard ways
>get out there and find the world ain't a perfect
>place. Think maybe I need to unretire and
>run a BOOTCAMP for these wussys. Thats
>what you git for Not learning at a DZ that
>treats you like the real world. Boo focking
>hoo. Buncha Leg Sheep, how in the world
>ewe exspect to survive at Quincy or a get
>down get dirty boogie. People go to the DZ
>to jump, not to baby sit yer uneddycated
>little butts GET TUFF OR STAY HOME
>Pougey baits. If ewe cain't think on
>your feet or be assertive how the hell
>can you jump right? :-P snuffy
>
>
Lew Douva
>
>We are both static line graduates from a single Cessna DZ. We have never
>done a tandem or an AFF jump. I guess we have led a sheltered life though.
>We spot and organize our own load when its necessary and we open the door
>when its time. Of course, we have never been told not to touch the door
>either. And since we don't have AFF or many freeflyers this was a whole new
>load experience.
>
>I know, whine whine. The whole point of going there was to experince some of
>the big wide world. Now that we have been burned once, we will be a little
>bolder next time.
I wasn't referring to you personaly, Jason. I just liked his "Boot Camp"
training idea.
--Douva
B-21806
Courtney Benton
love it and everyone there. When I'm away at school, I jump at the DZ that
basebabe jumps at normally - and I love it and everyone there, too. It's a
smaller DZ with about 10 regular jumpers, but I think it has the same family
atmosphere as SkyTX ( I don't know what DZ ya'll have them confused with
that doesn't). Yes, we do open plane doors for ourselves there, and no we
don't have load organizers, and nearly everyone on our small little DZ is a
smartass - so she should be used to that (although not everyone is as good
at it as Sam is). If you're confused at SkyTx you just talk to the S&TA
like you do at every other DZ, if the door is open you get out, and if you
don't want to jump - don't. My point is Skydive Tx is an awesome place to
jump with awesome people and it's getting better every weekend. It doesn't
deserve to be judged by one person's negative and convoluted remarks.
Courtney
__________________________________________________________________
It's not the size of the dog in the fight that counts, it's the size of the
fight in the dog.
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
> Unfortunatly all DZ's don't have primo staff
> and even the best DZ's let things slip through
> the cracks. Us combat zoo jumpers used to find the ocassional ferin and I mean
> Eu ferin
> jumper setting there in the Otter watching
> us dirt dive on the way to altitude. We would
> say hey ewe focking ferriner you want in on
> this? Put them in base and go. A JM or sum
> deguello wack wud report us to the S&TA
> Before ewe knew it the ferriner wud have
> a staff person looking out for them, protecting
> them from the Flail pigs. :) But every DZ
> ain't got a small hardcore group of problem
> jumpers they have to spy on all the time,
> so they miss these confused scared off DZ
> people who may not even be able to speak
> english and rescue them from theirselves or
> the Coyote pack. The best DZ's always have
> a few old Lifeguard types around to be
> sheep dogs fer stray sheep. But these kids
> that went to Skydive Texas shudda stayed home because they are helpless and
> apparently Skydive Texas ain't set up to babysit wennie's :-) snuffy
Thanks for the keen insightful mentoring, unkle snuf.
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
calling bully with the big mouth was actually the biggest weenie of all! :-)
And how exactly are we going to get street wise if we never leave our dirt
road?
--
bil...@qualcomm.com
base...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> One thing I did want to clear up because the majority of my email and the
> postings have pointed out that I should have asked my questions prior to
> loading. My friend and I asked several people these questions before gearing
> up and in the loading area, but were consistently told that the briefing would
> occur before loading the aircraft. Being new to the DZ, we had no reason to
> believe it would happen any other way. Believe when I say that I am not the
> shy, quiet type and I *do* ask questions when I am uncomfortable or unsure.
just as a suggestion -
if you do ever get into such a situation again, it can help to 'take
charge' and just start barking out orders. "you! you're first out! we're
second. you're third, and give us at least fifteen seconds!" after doing
this you may find that you are indeed the most experienced person on the
load, and are therefore doing some good. or, more likely, the JM on the load
will say "wait a minute. who are you to say that? you're out first, the
solo is out second. and you only need eight seconds with these winds." in
which case you got what you wanted anyway.
-bill von
TooyT
Wrote:
>I have had a lot of great suggestions for other DZs and also
>some great advise on how to handle this in the future.
>A-30278
***********************************
HEY SHEEP GIRL! Ewe need to examine yerself, ewe don't have enuff experiance to
take care of yourself on a strange DZ? EWE
need to stay at yer home DZ and work on
the basic's. We doan need no prekindy garden advice on the DZ's we need
competent Skydivers. Already enuff
whiners around. Bunch of damn wuss's
need to be babysa and have yer kid
noses whiped :-P snuffy sez this take it
easy on the cash cow prekindy garden
buy yer way in stuff is making sum weak
ass skydivers
Fr33Fly g04t
> As far as talking to the DZ management after the
>experience, I guess I should have done that, but realize that the DZO was
>flying the plane and the DZO's son was a JM on the load. What kind of
>response do you really think I would have gotten?
Just for future reference, when you want to talk to somebody about a
problem such as this one talk to Billy G who is the S&TA or talk to
Jeane Bishop. If they are not available talk to any other JM. I would
talk to any of them before discusing it with Tom(DZO) or Sam Bishop.
> Next time, I will give
>them the opportunity and the benefit of the doubt.
Thank you for realizing that the jump ya'll were on does not reflect
the general attitude of the DZ.
I appologize for my second post being too harsh. I was just
fusterated that you took the one experience you had and judged the
whole DZ from that load. Thank you for giving us the benefit of the
doubt the next time you come out.
Ya'll come on out again and the beer is on me.
TooyT
>Date: 12/2/98 3:26 PM !!!First Wrote:
>FYI:
>
>We are both static line graduates from a single Cessna DZ. We have never
>done a tandem or an AFF jump. I guess we have led a sheltered life though.
>We spot and organize our own load when its necessary and we open the door
>when its time. Of course, we have never been told not to touch the door
>either. And since we don't have AFF or many freeflyers this was a whole new
>load experience.
>
>I know, whine whine. The whole point of going there was to experince some of
>the big wide world. Now that we have been burned once, we will be a little
>bolder next time.
**********************************
Well its unfortunate ewe wern't taught to
take care of yerself. I went S/L too but
didn't really learn shit till I started gitting
on the Otter with them Deguello Wacks,
No mercy. :) You kinda learn to take care
of yourself and fly yer canopy back from anywhere. The exit order don't look
right or
someone hosing ewe? Go last, swoop em, skur the shit outta them. They git right
quick. :) snuffy
TooyT
Wrote:
>I wasn't referring to you personaly, Jason. I just liked his "Boot Camp"
>training idea.
>--Douva
> B-21806
Don't explain to the wuss's lew, its a waste of
time. They just want to whine and blame the
world for their shortcomings. A person
makes their choices and lives with it. Point
in case me and Mike Vetterman, we went
through Leauge City at about the same time.
He sucked up to deguello and learned RW
skills, I hung with the Zoo Pigs and learned
survival skills. Sure I was a flail jumper for
quite a while but When I went to Quincy
I didn't jump with my head up my ass like
deadmike and end up creamed. Old age
got me. Yeah ewe make your choices
and live with it. Also never forgit, Ohmmmm
Ohmmmmm SHIT HAPPENS! :) snuffy
base...@my-dejanews.com
"Courtney Benton" <cbe...@ttacs.ttu.edu> wrote:
> It doesn't deserve to be judged by one person's negative and convoluted
>remarks.
>
> Courtney
Do you honestly believe that I am the only one who has had a bad experience
at Skydive Texas? If you care to take this up through email or this weekend
at Westex, then I will be more than happy to share some of the stories I have
been told in response to my posting.
I understand the need to defend your home DZ because I have found myself
defending Westex on a few occasions, but don't be blinded into thinking they
are perfect every second of every day.
Christine
A-30278
AL DELLA PENNA JR
like you I have only jumped a three different DZ and all were great with people
(skygods right down to newbies like me) showing me arial photos of the DZ as well
as things to watch for while im up there , like being on the right side of the
river or id be landing at a different airport. I believe (in my opinion) that just
about any jumper will spend a min to talk to you about the DZ, unless of course
its a 5 min call , then watch your ass , he'll be high tailing it to the loading
area.
I usually make it a habit not to get on the first load so I can chat with the
local jumpers , maybe get a two-way together , mutual gear checks , and especially
any info on the DZ , remember this is his DZ and im the guest.
we have to look out for each other , its already been a horrible year (fatality
wise)
lets keep those skies blue and the ground green not RED.
BLUE SKIES
AL (REVID)
Fr33Fly g04t
> I hope this isn't going
>to turn into some ugly public slam fest. I have (or had, depending) every
>intention of returning to try to jump there again. As I said before, I don't
>agree with everything she said, but I do know why she felt the need to say
>it.
>
>Jason A-30174
I'll repost my response to basebabe last post below. I think it
applies to your post also jason. I vote we drop this arguing right
now.
Y'all come out again and the beer is on me. No bad vibes involved.
__________________________________________________________
TooyT
>Date: 12/2/98 6:31 PM !!!First
Wrote:
> I hope this isn't going
>>to turn into some ugly public slam fest. I have (or had, depending) every
>intention of returning to try to
If the little dead meat whinners want to be
babysat, maybe they shud go to daycare
or stay on their home DZ till they learn
Survival skills. I learned a lot traveling
from DZ to DZ but then again I wuzzn't no
weak assed snotnose kid and my bad old
man rep usually got to the DZ before I
did. Actually people jazzed the story's up sum
I was a nice old man unless ewe were a
Wuss ass crybaby yuppie or a time building
pilot or sumthang like a useless wussy ha ha
ha ha :-P snuffy
TooyT
>Date: 12/2/98 6:40 PM !!!First Wrote:
>Thanks for the keen insightful mentoring, unkle snuf.
>
>Jason A-30174
Ha ha ha think if yer nice to me I will go away
huh kid? :) Notttttttttttttt! I wish I wuz younger
I'd find out where these wennie ass kids
are learning to jump, go there and really
teach them what meany pie means :-P snuffy sez
Bunch of wuss ass kids ain't learning the
basic's :-P
TooyT
>Date: 12/2/98 6:47 PM !!!First Wrote:
>Speaking of second grade playground rules, Momma always said the name
>calling bully with the big mouth was actually the biggest weenie of all! :-)
>
>And how exactly are we going to get street wise if we never leave our dirt
>road?
>
>--
>Jason A-30174
***********************************
Thats O,K, kid none of my little flail pigs
flew their canopys into the ground or into
each other. If ewe jumped with me ewe
were heds up or I would take ewe out
and I wuz just big and mean enuff to flip
a 8 way round on its back. And they learned
to open the door just to git away frum my
mangy coyote ass. NO MERCY, NO PRISONERS. Focking skygods was even afraid of
our Thug ass's. We mever gave a shit what other people thought of us. You
either got in our Zoo's are were a wussy.
Man the S&TA earned their title on our
DZ, but we were really heads up skydivers
hell even our cameraman fell through our crazy ass formations. He fell on Roys
back twice and like to went through a canopy
in FF once, well he survived and moved on
to competition video. was OK though we
didn't want film of our crimes anyway :)snuffy
base...@my-dejanews.com
> HEY SHEEP GIRL! Ewe need to examine yerself, ewe don't have enuff experiance
> need to stay at yer home DZ and work on
> the basic's. We doan need no prekindy garden advice on the DZ's we need
> competent Skydivers.
Hey Snuffy,
Where do you jump? I need to come visit your DZ... Wouldn't that be fun for
you? We could jump together!
Christine
TooyT
Wrote:
>In article <743oeh$h...@ttacs7.ttu.edu>,
> "Courtney Benton" <cbe...@ttacs.ttu.edu> wrote:
>
>> It doesn't deserve to be judged by one person's negative and convoluted
>>remarks.
>>
>> Courtney
>
>Do you honestly believe that I am the only one who has had a bad experience
>at Skydive Texas? If you care to take this up through email or this weekend
>at Westex, then I will be more than happy to share some of the stories I have
>been told in response to my posting.
>
>I understand the need to defend your home DZ because I have found myself
>defending Westex on a few occasions, but don't be blinded into thinking they
>are perfect every second of every day.
>
>Christine
>A-30278
Some dinky assed A whinner may be a big
fish in their own pond but they ain't ready
for the river of life yet. I got another bitch,
these peckerwoods that cain't git a D by their
201st jump yet they think they can make money off the focking sport, How is a
no
talent non D wuss gonna give value for money? More than likely kill thirself.
Thats
better than killing sumone else. Its the focking
DZO's they all are looking for money factorys
rather than turning out hard nose competent
skydivers. If ewe got over 200 jumps and no D, don't ask for money. bunch of
focking
Merchants, WHERE ARE THE SAMARI?
Haa ha ha fock ewe :-P snuffy sez no wonder
A's cain't take care of theirself. No tuff love
going on out there, its ewe pay me and I'll agree with ewe or sign ewe off.
FOCK THAT
learn the basics you Yuppie Wuss's :-P snuffy
Rita
>
> Perhaps this is where manifest can help out. Me personally, I run manifest,
> and when I get a new jumper in, I take his/her vitals, then go get an
> intructor myself, introduce them and ask the instructor to please show the
> jumper around, show them the arial and where the obstacles are,...etc. Yes
> must also take the ball.....just my opinion.
Sounds to me like you run a "heads up" manifest there, Jen.
That is exactly as it should be, and illustrates a dz that is
proactive in its efforts to prevent accidents ... long before they even have
a chance to "think" of happening.
Blue ones!
--rita
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
sarcastic jab. :-)
--
Jason A-30174
"Some people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths" - Stephen
Wright
Bill McGee DVM
>
> I want to thank everybody who has sent me email about my experience at
> some great advise on how to handle this in the future.
>
> postings have pointed out that I should have asked my questions prior to
> loading. My friend and I asked several people these questions before gearing
> up and in the loading area, but were consistently told that the briefing would
> occur before loading the aircraft. Being new to the DZ, we had no reason to
> believe it would happen any other way. Believe when I say that I am not the
> shy, quiet type and I *do* ask questions when I am uncomfortable or unsure.
>
> Texas, Sam Bishop (DZ manager?) gave us a tour of the hanger - you know,
> classrooms, lounge, video room, packing area, etc. This was great. Also,
> Zack Lewis, a local jumper, pointed out the landing area, outs, Farmer
> McNasty, etc. With this kind of friendliness in our earlier visits, we
> thought we would have a good time and that's why we were so shocked at how it
> really went down.
>
> My story was meant to provide information helpful to other jumpers and also
> experience, I guess I should have done that, but realize that the DZO was
> flying the plane and the DZO's son was a JM on the load. What kind of
> them the opportunity and the benefit of the doubt.
>
> A-30278
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
The problem seems to be that the day you were out there were some
personalities at the DZ that upset the normal easy going atmosphere. To
outsiders it is not very evident, but to those of us who jump there we
know when it is a bad day. Jean Bishop and the rest of the manifestors
are wonderful helpful people unless the other personality is being
overbearing (which it was). Billy G (S&TA) would help out with anything
you needed.
I actually quit jumping skydive tx for a while because of the person who
caused the upset that Saturday. I came back because of the rest of the
skydivers. They are what makes the DZ.
Come back we'll make some jumps and if you still don't like it we'll
cruise up to Gainesville and jump the DC3 they are great too.
Bill
D can't remember
TooyT
> To be fair, I want to point out that on one of our earlier visits to Skydive
>> Texas, Sam Bishop (DZ manager?) gave us a tour of the hanger - you know,
>classrooms, lounge, video room, packing area, etc. This was great. Also,
>Zack Lewis, a local jumper, pointed out the landing area, outs, Farmer
>> McNasty, etc. With this kind of friendliness in our earlier visits, we
***********************************
Ha ha ha sounds like they thought ewe were gonna be cash cows, gee maybe we can
sell them Skydive U or video. If ewe focking kids
cain't learn the basics and how to take care of yourself away from home, maybe
ewe should
give up skydiving and join a country club. They will kiss yer ass for fee's so
will DZ's
but its less likely you will be killed playing
golf or tennis. BUNCH OF DAMN YUP
LEG SHEEP! :-P snuffy yawl shuddn't feel
bad yer a symtom of where the sport is going
not the reason. The training and lust for
money at any price is the reason. All any
DZ is good for after your off student status
is a ride to altitude. Just keep jumping try
to learn all ewe can at your home DZ. Yer
not ready to git off the porch and play with
the big dogs yet, yer gonna either Whine
or get hurt :-*
TooyT
Wrote:
>Hey Snuffy,
>
>Where do you jump? I need to come visit your DZ... Wouldn't that be fun for
>you? We could jump together!
>
>Christine
No doubt I could tuffen yer young ass up
and make ewe a heads up sheep, have
fun at the same time. But too bad for ewe
I got old had a stroke and retired. Don't
even go out to Waller to watch and give
tips anymore because I cain't abide the
lack of Samari spirit, smell of fear and money
grubbing habits of some of the hangers on.
Ewe know got their hands out but cain't provide value for service, they still
trying to
learn themselves and want ewe to pay. Never
made a nickle from skydiving but damn it
wuz fun, just chasing back sliding novices
across the sky wuz fun, skuring people wuz fun too. Maybe I win the Lottery one
day
and buy a C206, Ewe cum then I make a
hard nose no mercy skydiver outta yer sheep ass. Between the cuss words I might
even show ewe how to git the pilots attention
and work a door :-* snuffy sez if yer timid
come ahead but if yer a wuss or quitter stay
home :-)
dru spork
old men...
|***********************************
|Thats O,K, kid none of my little flail pigs
|flew their canopys into the ground or into
|each other. If ewe jumped with me ewe
|were heds up or I would take ewe out
|and I wuz just big and mean enuff to flip
|a 8 way round on its back. And they learned
|to open the door just to git away frum my
|mangy coyote ass. NO MERCY, NO PRISONERS. Focking skygods was even afraid of
|our Thug ass's. We mever gave a shit what other people thought of us. You
|either got in our Zoo's are were a wussy.
Sorry snufflefluff, have to clean up too much after some-one elses
b_s_ in the zoo. This wuss would rather keep flying, and let some
other toady keep the w(h)ine up to the retirement folk.
|Man the S&TA earned their title on our
|DZ, but we were really heads up skydivers
|hell even our cameraman fell through our crazy ass formations. He fell on Roys
|back twice and like to went through a canopy
|in FF once, well he survived and moved on
|to competition video. was OK though we
|didn't want film of our crimes anyway :)snuffy
Now i get it. Chaos in the sky. If you're not contributing you
justgotta be a poof (or a woman).
Settle back in that wheel chair. Sure, sure, like someone's going to
to put wings on it sooner or later.
Let old men have their stories. But they always are superceded by the
youngsters in the long run.
must be a spiritual thing, sinussy one.
Still, i'm happy to jump with the oldies. When they behave
themselves. Bad boy snuffy.
dru spork
aff + 26. er, and nobody mention the mud on the canopy please. Did
pigs flail in the mud, too, root'n toot'n?
dru spork
the whisky's better here anyway.
dru spork
SJS
he can't afford to skydive on his Social Security check and Medicare won't
pay for his Viagra.
Plus he can't afford a decent computer with spell checking and there's no
Hooked on Phonics for the elderly. It's probably hard ( well maybe it's not
) to get old and watch the dust build up on your rig and pecker because you
can't use either of them.
hehehehehehehehe
Ken
jsc...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<744d2a$e0i$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <19981202140315...@ng33.aol.com>,
> to...@aol.com (TooyT) wrote:
> > >From: jsc...@my-dejanews.com
> > >Date: 12/2/98 6:40 PM !!!First Wrote:
> > >Thanks for the keen insightful mentoring, unkle snuf.
> > >
> > >Jason A-30174
> > *********************************
> > Ha ha ha think if yer nice to me I will go away
> > huh kid? :) Notttttttttttttt! I wish I wuz younger
> > I'd find out where these wennie ass kids
> > are learning to jump, go there and really
> > teach them what meany pie means :-P snuffy sez
> > Bunch of wuss ass kids ain't learning the
> > basic's :-P
> >
> >
> And you thought I was being nice to you. Jeez. I can't even fly a
little
> sarcastic jab. :-)
>
> --
> Jason A-30174
>
> "Some people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths" -
Stephen
> Wright
>
TooyT
>Date: 12/2/98 Wrote:
>jsc...@my-dejanews.com
>> >Date: 12/2/98 6:40 PM !!!First Wrote:
>> >Thanks for the keen insightful mentoring, unkle snuf.
>> >
>> >Jason A-30174
>> Ha ha ha think if yer nice to me I will go away
>> huh kid? :) Notttttttttttttt! I wish I wuz younger
>> I'd find out where these wennie ass kids
>> are learning to jump, go there and really
>> teach them what meany pie means :-P snuffy sez
>> Bunch of wuss ass kids ain't learning the
>> basic's :-P
>>
>>
>And you thought I was being nice to you. Jeez. I can't even fly a little
>sarcastic jab. :-)
>
>--
>Jason A-30174
***********************************
Sarcastic? Whuts thut? I a tuff old hairy
coyote that sarcastic shit go past me. Hell
kid I used to go to the DZ just to work the
Novices into a frenzy and piss off deguello.
If nobody wud rise to it I might jump 10 or 12
times during the weekend or I might leave,
drive 500 miles and sleep on the hood of my
car at a strange DZ, hoping for fresh sheep
& skygod meat. It was part of the sport to me.
DZ's is one of the few places type A easy
anal people will gasther in a flock for itenarate
coyotes. Well them woman libber siminars
are pretty good too but they won't put up
with it frum a male pig coyote, besides they
hit kick and slap. :-( snuffy
TooyT
>Now i get it. Chaos in the sky. If you're not contributing you
>justgotta be a poof (or a woman).
>
>Settle back in that wheel chair. Sure, sure, like someone's going to
>to put wings on it sooner or later.
>
>Let old men have their stories. But they always are superceded by the
>youngsters in the long run.
>
>must be a spiritual thing, sinussy one.
>
>Still, i'm happy to jump with the oldies. When they behave
>themselves. Bad boy snuffy.
>
>dru spork
>
>aff + 26. er, and nobody mention the mud on the canopy please. Did
>pigs flail in the mud, too, root'n toot'n?
***********************************
Don't it just break yer heart that I actually
got a D and a National bronze to back my
shit talk up kid? Be keerfull ewe little AFF
wussypie :-P snuffy sez yuh I is retired
old and a little crippled but I am alive, will
ewe make it that far? Buncha dam LEG
Sheep bitchs Try to have fun out there
try preperation H & prozac, works for me!
Augggg ha ha :-P
TooyT
>Don't pay any attention to Snuffy. He's bitter and envious of you because
>he can't afford to skydive on his Social Security check and Medicare won't
>pay for his Viagra.
>Plus he can't afford a decent
>computer with spell checking and there's no
>Hooked on Phonics for the
***********************************
Notttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt! A big part of the sport
for me wuz focking with anal people, this
way is fun and way cheaper. I got a kid
away at college might git onna them wussy
ass Phd things who knows. Why I want a spell
check? Its easier to piss off anal people
without one. Besides I a coyote ewe wussys
art not to try and pigion hole me by yer
anal humanistic weak people standards ha ,
ha man my company retirement medical
insurance pays fer all the prozac I need
and thats all I need! Naa na na na nah
Wusseys :-P snuffy
TooyT
***********************************
EWE LIE!!!!! all yawl got is thut shit tasting
Scotch. Kintucky and Canada make the best
drinking whiskey with the Irish cumming in
third. Buncha dam Limeys yawl lost the war
of indypendance, yer jus bitter lakk that
nasty tasting Scotch shit thuts all. :-P snuffy
SJS
<19981202174957...@ng34.aol.com>...
> ***********************************
> Notttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt! A big part of the sport
> for me wuz focking with anal people, this
> way is fun and way cheaper.
Besides, you've seen all the Bonanza and Gun Smoke re-runs on cable
anyway...........right? ;-)
hehehehehehehehe
Ken
TooyT
Wrote:
Focking Limeys doan understood Irish
American culture dew ewe. Its when the
morning cartoons go off, ewe know like
about a hour after the CHiPs reruns, see drinking that piss warm beer and burnt
wood Scotch effects yawls brains, ewe artta switch
to cold bud and Crown Royal Damn no wonder we won the war frum King George
buncha focking RED COATs, Take heart
though the Frunch & Rooskies beat our ass
at CRW. :-p snuffy the focking redneck colonial guy Augggggg ha ha ha
SJS
> >From: "SJS" <REMO...@neto.com>
> ***********************************
> Focking Limeys doan understood Irish
> American culture dew ewe. Its when the
> morning cartoons go off,
And the nurse "accidentally" gives you your morning suppository orally and
has explained that it is an after dinner mint so you won't complain to the
nursing home management and get her fired.
>ewe know like
> about a hour after the CHiPs reruns, see drinking that piss warm beer and
burnt
> wood Scotch effects yawls brains,
And then you realize that the piss warm beer is really piss and that the
stein you're drinking from is really your bed pan. Made that dinner mint
taste good compared to the "beer," eh Snuff?
Damn pier queers always gotta call someone a female
sheep....................Don't EWE? ;-)
Careful Snuff, I hear DeJello has a contract on ya!
hehehehehehehehehe
Ken
john berntsen
..................................................................
We, on the other side of the pond, realised that
rather quickly today. Are you old enough to partake?
I know it hits you younger chaps, rather quickly.
Winsor?......Craig?..... he needs a ride home.
Theres a lot of wild colonial boys, that would love to ride him, but
then his Mum would worry.
Iron Dog
Peter Liemberg
>Well, of course we have to know how to take care of ourselves in this sport,
>Snuff ... that goes without saying. But, it would seem to me that a little
>"briefing" for newcomers at any dz should be in order.
<snipped>
-----------------------------------------
This is IMH $0,02 Opinion a "damned if you do, damned if you dont"
situation. I hollered people out of the door (shouting GO GO GO) and
landed almost off the DZ with a tandem since I started shouting a bit
late. But I dont expect solojumpers to climb out to the step and the
strut of C206 at 9000ft when simply diving out also gets the
B-licenced out of the door & out of my way. And the sliding door of a
van bears some resemblance with that of a Porter. And I take for
granted that skydivers recognize a mock up and know what its intended
for. Since most of them come with one mouth and two ears, they should
be able to get themselves fully prepared on a lift when its there.
When touching my sleeve doesn't work, you may try shouting.
I dont tie your shoelaces and wipe off your nose.
OTOH I can become rather incommunicado (so I'm told) when just about
everybody wants to speak with me personaly at the same time when the
weather clears and jumping starts.
When I give an extensive DZ briefing before the jump I sometimes
encounter a look of impatience and 'Yes we _know_ that Peter!!!'
Since I myself hate it when I'm belittled by people explaining the
obvious I try to be brief in briefings.
I must confess that sometimes I decided it was time for a little
'learning by doing' (as long as they don't kill or hurt themselves
there's nothing against a screwed up exit)
Self aquired knowledge sinks in best, etc.
Also, I dont know how much you know already which is where the problem
lies: I say "but thats part of a FJC" whereas the visitor says "its
part of a DZ briefing"
I wonder how well everybody realises what all that 'adrenalin
releasing' is doing to them when they are at the DZ.
You (and I) picture ourselves as 'cool, calm & collected'. Friendly.
Reasonable.
However: I _do_ get excited when I'm skydiving. (gonna skydive / just
came back after a skydive). I jump up and down, run around, etc.
(Mind you - I like it, but its a whole other state of mind than
sitting quietly behind a computer) When I'm not skydiving and I see
others that are, I see the same excitement.
These Are Not Reasonable People, I keep telling myself, although they
apear to be 'cool'. They have rituals while packing parachutes. They
have small nervous twitches on jumprun. They look like they won the
national lottery when they come walking back to the hangar. And They
Have Amazingly Short Fuses - which I always seem to forget.
I have had my share of unhappy customers and once per season I find
myself in a verbal 'shootout' with a customer that really pissed me
off / that I really pissed off.
I had a good laugh today on Snuff's joke about the pilot being able to
switch a lightbulb with no effort - since the universe automaticaly
revolved around him. Sad to say that - when skydiving / occupied with
this particulary dive - most of us are worse.
But (dear Barbie who started this thread - not you Rita) whining on
the newsgroup about the selfcentered 'skygoditis' of others is in
itself...eh...
So Enough Talk: You all report at 0600 AM at Uncle Snuffs BOOTCAMP !
;-)
*********************************************
Tandem JM/I DZO; "When I get my Z licence
I probably don't need a parachute anymore..."
TooyT
Wrote:
>nd the nurse "accidentally" gives you your morning suppository orally and
>has explained that it is an after dinner mint so you won't complain to the
nursing home
>Damn pier queers always gotta call someone a female
>sheep....................Don't EWE? ;-)
>
>Careful Snuff, I hear DeJello has a contract on ya!
>
>hehehehehehehehehe
>
>Ken
***********************************
Heh heh gud one Limey but a lotta deguello
people prolly just laff at my eccentric old ass
cuz we cuzins. Its the wanna be's that doan
make the deguello cut that git anal and mad
like. I ben trying to figer yer Limey ass out.
Two years I pick at the Britts and Nada, I
start in on sum North Texas Okies and bam
a Limey jumps in! I got it figured ewe feel
inadequate cuz yer frum the land of the
Round student main and ewe went AFF
like sum wussy ass American Yup. :-P SNUFFY
TooyT
>So Enough Talk: You all report at 0600 AM at Uncle Snuffs BOOTCAMP !
>;-)
***********************************
door
screaming and crying, Who's first, who's
secound, omygod I gonna die boo focking
hoo. Lights out at 1000 hours unless yer
studying for an A, B, C & D. No beer or
late night partys till ewe pass yer D. Round
water jumps & 1 solo, 1- 4way night jump
required to stop the pushups a D Lic. required to stop the duck walks, Be able
to brief and put a 21 person load within the
length of a grass runway with yer spot to stop the 5 mile morning runs. And the
spotter goes
last, Buncha dam leg boots Yeah thats whut I sed :-P snuffy the Mr. ha ha hard
ass has ben :-*
SJS
> >From: "SJS" <REMO...@neto.com>
> Heh heh gud one Limey but a lotta deguello
> people prolly just laff at my eccentric old ass
> cuz we cuzins. Its the wanna be's that doan
> make the deguello cut that git anal and mad
> like. I ben trying to figer yer Limey ass out.
> Two years I pick at the Britts and Nada, I
> start in on sum North Texas Okies and bam
> a Limey jumps in! I got it figured ewe feel
> inadequate cuz yer frum the land of the
> Round student main and ewe went AFF
> like sum wussy ass American Yup. :-P SNUFFY
So what ya sayin' Snuff, ya think ya know who I is now? Inadequate? If ya
come from the land of the Round student main, ya don't go AFF and ya damn
sure don't feel inadequate, especially around the AFF types..........Hell,
you know that, or the Navy should have at least briefed ya on it when ya
was running the gee dunk locker at the DZ.
Ken
Ken
dru spork
You call that live, man?
Here
this is live. 12 months out, no currency, didlesquat jumps anyway
(but they's aff snuff, so they count) new plane (little one) and
fluffed it. Fuck, ah sorry folks, fadoodle, 30 second free fall (this
is skydiving?) and no plane wind to start it. Yeah, ok a good
experience to hit a small dz (jumping cessna's fuck, scuse, fadoodle
me, may as well be hot air baloons). Miss breakoff (5,500' snuff i
know you never left a plane that high in 125 jumps) but pick it up at
5,000' wave like fu...fadoodle and reach.
Oops dipstick, my first jump with BOC. Fu..fadoodle, nearly cut away
before i even released the main.
Hey, it get's worse. Line twists. Jeez, must have leant into that
scratch your bum-sorry-backside-routine.
The canopy is squarish and slowish. Fu-adoodle untwisting was easier
in aff 1 training. (my memory cells are'nt up to working out how long
ago that was). Still at least i *do* have a pile of shite out there.
It's a start, eh? Much better than *not* having a pile of shite out
there. Sorted. Finally. Absolute-fadoodling no idea where the dz is.
Abso-fadoodling-lutely last time i dont spot myself (fuck this
currency and we know better shite), look for canopies. Thar she
blows. Let's turn around here. OK, let's keep turning. Yeah
turn..fadoodle, keep turning..fadoodle.. for fuck's sake is this
thing going to come around? Would you jump a 280' canopy? (We're not
talking tandom here). And they put beginners in them here. (here
being u(c)k snuffly:-(
Yeah. i'm back into the wind (and that took some doing.) Where the
fadoodle is the dz? No fucking_fadoodle idea. And i lost my fellow
jumpers in that single turn. Jezus, i'm not doing that (turning)
again in a hurry. Hey, there they are! Fuck/fadoodling great! Aim
for that piece of shite there! Cool baby! I aint the *only* one lost.
Turn in... turn in... fack-doodle! dont know what they are up to but
that is def (sh) itely power lines. And farm equipment! No way i'm
landing there! But it's windy, and that's exactly where i'm going.
Height 600' sounds heaps. But after this pile'o'shite i'm flying. 1
180 turn takes at least 750'.
Hey, i can slot the toggles into my shoes (snuff style, but for fuck's
sake i'm not under fire) or i work it out quickly. It is windy, but
no' so much on the ground. Fuck-fadoodle it. Deep stall (both feet in
the action) and a slight forward motion (with this shite, i cannot
call it a rush). Thank doodle, beyond the power lines. Trees! A
double hook again, and i'm driving earthwards *much* faster than i
want. But i'm clearing those trees.release toggle, at last some speed,
flare, right, and soft landing.
Yeah, and fck you snuff. That padock mud on my rig had nothing to
with a shite landing. fadoodled if i know how it got there. And the
fact thqt they are drying out the canopy tonight has nohting to do
with nothing other than they want me back tomorrow. er to pack the
shite.
Fact is, sure no-=one was there tae witness, but the only thing i got
half right was the landing.
And that's it. What, a 2.5 mile walk home? If only. Whar's my
jumpers? Thar they are down hill under the power lines. Oh jeezus,
uterly no movement. Just a canopy in the breeze. Now i'm running
down hill, trying to catch my breathe (how long after i turned before
they hit deck?) As i get closer (running like the fadoodle) There is
only one bloke down. Run harder. er... what the fuck-fadoodle -
no-one down ... just plastic bags over farm equipment...
still, no-chance anybody is going to witness that embarrassment. Is
there snuff?
Yeah, snoozy, and i'm *pleased*.
And now i know i am a lot further away from home. Where is the dz?
And you're asking me? Had to walk away from the dz to find a motorway
and hitch. They tell me the twists weren't my fault. And like, i
believe this shite? Sure, like i cant even find a handle, and that
wont turn me, at all. yo bro. (right.)
So there it is.
Real life aff vs vietcong paratrooping. Leave the oldies to their
stories. Snuff, you gotta laugh. Give it a coupla hundred, i'll take
you tandem.
Young men move through.
Old men reminisce. (so my spelling is up the duff).
Yeh! Hang in their, getting old dont make you wrong. That's the bit
*i'm* still working on. That's *my* perogative. Aint easy to make you
wrong snuff.
But i'm working on it.
btw: What tips you got on 4-w snuff? We can both dream, cant we?
er, i'm not talking crew either, ye with sinusses.
dru spork
TooyT
Wrote:
>So what ya sayin' Snuff, ya think ya know who I is now? Inadequate? If ya
>come from the land of the Round student main, ya don't go AFF and ya damn
>sure don't feel inadequate, especially around the AFF types..........Hell,
>you know that, or the Navy should have at least briefed ya on it when ya
>was running the gee dunk locker at the DZ.
>
>Ken
>
>
>
>Ken
Hey I wuz onna them Skates standing in the
geedunk line when the call came for surf
sitting or kissing the black top. Fock the
berm too I wanna be a Gedunk sailor. I say
hey Chief! want sum hot coffee? I will
run and get it. Hey Chief I need a Corpsman
think I got shin splints. Chief say hey pussy
boy I want any shit outta ewe I'll kick ewe
in the ass, If I think ewe need an opinion
I'll give ewe one you damn wog! Augggg
ha ha ha the old bastard I luved him he carried his hemoroids with style and a
dry
humor the old WWII bastard!. :-* snuffy sez ewe got to live one minute at a
time, thats 60 sec for ewe dum leg-ass skydivers :-P
TooyT
Wrote:
>this is live. 12 months out, no currency, didlesquat jumps anyway
>(but they's aff snuff, so they count) new plane (little one) and
>fluffed it. Fuck, ah sorry folks,
>know you never left a plane that high in 125 jumps) but pick it up at
>5,000' wave like fu...fadoodle and reach.
> for fuck's sake is this
>thing going to come around? Would you jump a 280' canopy? (We're not
>talking tandom here). And they put beginners in them here. (here
>being u(c)k snuffly:-(
>Turn in... turn in... fack-doodle! dont know what they are up to but
>that is def (sh) itely power lines. And farm equipment! No way i'm
>landing there! But it's windy, and
***********************************
Damn boy ewe better cut down on them
Scotch and Guiness boiler makers, yer drifting bad. Try electo shock and prozac
at the least wet sheets and prozac nah make
that thorazene. :) I wuz a 240 pound 51 year
old student, they moved me to a F265 after
the 2nd jump and were talking a Monark 215
by the time I wuz on 60 sec free falls but the
DZO nixed it, he wuz afraid for his parked
182, We were using the 206 and Otter. Say
ewe aint smoking that wacky baccky are ewe
Limey boy? :-* snuffy
TooyT
Wrote:
>This post serves
>as a good reminder to be friendly and helpful to new people, even if
>you aren't a jm, S&TA, etc. It can
>be really intimidating to go to a
>new dz and not know who's who and the dz's SOP. Put the right
***********************************
I got a old fart opinion here on S&TA's thats
gonna be misconstrewed as a slam or being
a bitter old has been, my opinions usually
are misinturped anyway so keep yer focking whinning to yerselves. A good S&TA
will
get on the loads or at least stand outside and
watch the exits, canopy flying and landings
and not hide in the focking Office waiting
for tattletales to report things. While I am on
a roll here he artta be tearing bad packing up
and checking gear in the loading area, every
focking bodys pins and gear. Not just the
Novices. And fock the DZO & his Skygods.
play no favorites KICK ASS & TAKE NAME's by the Sin comitted, not by who
comitted it or how focking political they are.
Be fair be hard! Quit picking on the Zoo
Pigs and free flyers. THERE NOW BITE
ME! :-P snuffy
SkyClod25
it. HMMM lets see if i got this right....... thinking of the correct
response....... STAY HOME AND WATCH TELEVISION NEXT TIME. We don't need whiners
at the dzs, bitch bitch bitch. Skydive,drink laugh,screw,build bonfires,race
golfcarts, all acceptable behavor at my dz don't recall recruiting whiners to
party with. If SDT had any sense they would ban you from the dz just so you
wouldn't annoy the skydivers. Buy yourself a BOWLING BALL and GO AWAY
TooyT
Wrote:
***********************************
I don't think so, every kid has potential. I
think if these kids stay at their DZ and get sum more jumps they will calm
down, I mean we are talking a sport here where not being a
driven bitcher is the exception to the
rule. I just hope I cum back in the next life
as a D.I. or Airborne blackhat cuz I believe
I kin help sheep over the hump in life. :) I
luv to see people break through mental barriers, pain and fear to reach their
potential.
Hell I am even happy when those deguello
wacks win something. See I got this theory,
you make it as hard as ewe can on sheep
and anal people, that way when you ease
up on them a little what ever problem they were trying to overcum don't seem
that
bad anymore. Their DZ needs to start leaning
on them ewe know make them stretch till
it smarts a little, even wussy sheep will tuffen
up. That no pain no gain shit is true in a lot
of ways. I thinking they are females anyway
so ewe wuddn't kick em outta yer party ewe little pig! Give it up boy ewe wud
roll over and beg them ha ha ha who ewe
think ewe fooling kid? Only buda-kai
monks can rise above social and sexual
needs :-P snuffy sez corse its hard to do
much with yuppies but piss on their Beemers
and matching gear. :)
Rita
> So Enough Talk: You all report at 0600 AM at Uncle Snuffs BOOTCAMP !
> ;-)
Ummmmmm, just one question, though?
How many platform PLFs are we gonna start the day off with, Snuff? :)
Blue ones!
--rita
Rita
> Lights out at 1000 hours unless yer
> studying for an A, B, C & D. No beer or
> late night partys till ewe pass yer D. Round
> water jumps & 1 solo, 1- 4way night jump
> required to stop the pushups a D Lic. required to stop the duck walks, Be able
> to brief and put a 21 person load within the
> length of a grass runway with yer spot to stop the 5 mile morning runs. And the
> spotter goes
> last, Buncha dam leg boots Yeah thats whut I sed :-P snuffy the Mr. ha ha hard
> ass has ben :-*
LOL ... yea, but Snuff ... when I lose all this weight in your bootcamp ...
and my pretty jumpsuit that matches my rig don't fit no more ... you gonna
buy me a new color-coordinated container and suit ...
And, what happens when I can't get the canopy color's to blend in just right
with the suit? Damned, it'll be too big too! Jeez, this bootcamp of your's
could get down right expensive! :(
Blue ones!
--rita
Rita
> When I give an extensive DZ briefing before the jump I sometimes
> encounter a look of impatience and 'Yes we _know_ that Peter!!!'
I guess maybe before the jump, though, is probably not the best time for it.
I meant that when a person goes to a new dz for the first time, perhaps as a
part of their getting "checked in," a short "overview" of the dz and its
general procedures should be a part of that process ... at least it always
was in my case. And, believe me, such a briefing was always appreciated!
New and unfamiliar dz's present new challenges. Challenge is good, but it
needs to be reasonably managed. But as far as basic skills are concerned,
sure ... anyone with a license should have that knowledge already. If they
don't, perhaps they should be restricting their jumping to their home dz
until they acquire it.
As far as before the jump ... I think a group of licensed skydivers should be
capable of determining exit order, based on what each on the load is doing.
At least, that's always how it was at the dz's I've visited. In the absence
of a load organizer, common sense would seem to dictate that large groups go
first ... freeflyers, etc. Then the solo jumpers and small groups mingle
about the back of the plane ... "What kind of a separation are we
giving? You belly flying? Doing a solo? How high you opening?" Common
sense seems to make all this work out.
In this sport, you can't be too careful. Shit's gonna happen no matter what
you do. So, why invite trouble when a good orientation to a new dz can
possibly head off a good portion of those problems before they even occur?
Blue ones!
--rita
Cyborg
publish a DZ rating list every year. DZ's are rated for their friendliness
and professionalism among other things. Maybe they will put this DZ low on
their list this year!
Jennifer Richter
>Sounds to me like you run a "heads up" manifest there, Jen.
>
>That is exactly as it should be, and illustrates a dz that is
>proactive in its efforts to prevent accidents ... long before they even have
>a chance to "think" of happening.
>
>Blue ones!
>
>--rita
Thanks Rita, that's another reason why I think manifestors should by skdivers.
Manifest is where a new jumper gets his/her first impression of a DZ, whether
its in person or on the phone. Skydiving manifestors know what to look for and
what questions to ask.
Jen
jaime
I am part of the group call the "one" and maybe I will put you on my list of
....whatever! list people.
Cyborg wrote in message <36669...@news.compuvar.com>...
TooyT
***********************************
I dunno most training is designed to find a
persons weak points, break point to zero
then build them up. If sumone cain't PLF
I rukun we can hire a bubba to turn their rack
over 9 or 10 times a night, Personally I
kinda like that downwind PLF training..
Ewe know pull yer legs up and slide on yer
ass till ewe slow down to 45 mph then
flop and roll 75 yards like a tumblebug,
git up and shout "THATS OK FOLKS, I
FRUM GEORGIA!" :-) Maybe we kin tie
a rope around canidates waist and drag
them across a pasrure with a John Deer to
see whut they need in the way of landing
skills, I mean if it don't hurt ewe ain't really
learning and that jumping off folding chairs
into soft peas the USPA DZ's use for Yups
just ain't painfull enuff to teach right from
wrong or a few BASE jumps off Lums corn
crib to show them how to crash and burn with style. If they kin get up and say
" Yeah I
stupid, I signed up for this shit we will move
them to the Cotton mouth pond pratice
area. See we suck them in with a 20 buck
FJC fee 10 buck a solo jump fee but tack
on a 1, 500 dollar Registration deposit thats forfited if they Quit or git
killed All deposits to be used for the Graduation party. Oh shit I am corrupted
allready, thinking like a sorry DZO lusting after a Otter and hoping their is
gonna be enuff sheep left alive to form a jump base
. :-( see how skydiving twists feeble
minds? :-P snuffy sez hell we will give the
survivors a free Tee that sez I got sheared
by Snuffy U and lived. But no numbers I
cain't stand that Yuppie thing about ewe ain't
a real person without a bunch of numbers behind yer name. I telling ewe we will
set
Skydiving back 50 years and git rid of them
Left Wing Liberal Hack attitudes. :-*
TooyT
***********************************
Make that 2200 lights out and don't worry about colors, everybody is gonna be
the
same. mud colored. Uh no personal gear
yawl gonna be using the schools military
surplus gear and flight suits. Bring combat
boots. No focking running in Tennis shoes
thats sissy and more likelt to cause shin
splints. I see any Tevs on a load and sumbody
is gonna die a painfull death. Better not nobody show up with full face
helments or
booties either. See thats better cuz no matter
who screws the formation up, everybody
will look the Nasty same and be learning
the same hard lessons. Hell yawl might even
band together and turn a point if ewe ain't
distracted by gadgits or fashion/ :-* snuffu
TooyT
***********************************
Wow this is sounding like a commie conspiricy
where yawl homebased. Washington D.C. Waco or Austin? :-P snuffy sez kinda like
them American militia nut groups huh? Any
of ewe try out for deguello yet? Auggggggg
ha ha ha Glad I retired before altitude & bad
flares made me as strange as yawl. :-*
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
We made ONE jump there. Yes, it was one very unpleasant jump, but it was
still only one jump. Not enough to judge an entire DZ by. In their defense,
we had been there three of the last four or five weekends though the weather
prevented us from jumping and they probably thought we were already familiar
with the DZ. I'm not saying that what happened on our jump was acceptable,
just probably not the norm. I have heard many more good things than I have
bad, so take no preconceived notions, go there and find out for yourself.
Jason A-30174
"Cyborg" <Cyb...@starfishnet.com> wrote:
> I have heard of a group of jumpers that call themselves "The Ten" . They
> publish a DZ rating list every year. DZ's are rated for their friendliness
> and professionalism among other things. Maybe they will put this DZ low on
> their list this year!
> >
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
gypcees
trained by Snuffy !
Then they could definitely go out, evaluate the DZ's for ALL aspects
(safety, efficiency, friendliness & don't forget fun).
Kinda like some of the top company's secret shopper program.
Troy
TooyT <to...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981203113706...@ng110.aol.com>...
> >From: "jaime" <jaime@longbow. Wrote:
>
> >And that is why?
> >
> >I am part of the group call the "one" and maybe I will put you on my
list of
> >....whatever! list people.
> >
> >Cyborg wrote in message <36669...@news.compuvar.com>...
> >>I have heard of a group of jumpers that call themselves "The Ten" .
They
> >>publish a DZ rating list every year. DZ's are rated for their
friendliness
> >>and professionalism among other things. Maybe they will put this DZ low
on
> >>their list this year!
gypcees
unfamiliar DZ to keep yourself & the other divers on the up & up, or should
I say a safe down & down !
Troy
jsc...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<746pc2$epo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> OK, now I must defend Skydive Texas.
>
> We made ONE jump there. Yes, it was one very unpleasant jump, but it was
> still only one jump. Not enough to judge an entire DZ by. In their
defense,
> we had been there three of the last four or five weekends though the
weather
> prevented us from jumping and they probably thought we were already
familiar
> with the DZ. I'm not saying that what happened on our jump was
acceptable,
> just probably not the norm. I have heard many more good things than I
have
> bad, so take no preconceived notions, go there and find out for yourself.
>
> Jason A-30174
>
> "Cyborg" <Cyb...@starfishnet.com> wrote:
> > I have heard of a group of jumpers that call themselves "The Ten" .
They
> > publish a DZ rating list every year. DZ's are rated for their
friendliness
> > and professionalism among other things. Maybe they will put this DZ low
on
> > their list this year!
> > >
>
>
TooyT
Wrote:
>OK, now I must defend Skydive Texas.
>
>We made ONE jump there. Yes, it was one very unpleasant jump, but it was
>still only one jump. Not enough to judge an entire DZ by. In their defense,
>we had been there three of the last four or five weekends though the weather
>prevented us from jumping and they probably thought we were already familiar
>with the DZ. I'm not saying that what happened on our jump was acceptable,
>just probably not the norm. I have heard many more good things than I have
>bad, so take no preconceived notions, go there and find out for yourself.
>
>Jason A-30174
>Cyborg" <Cyb...@starfishnet.com> wrote:
>> I have heard of a group of jumpers that call themselves "The Ten" . They
>> publish a DZ rating list every year. DZ's are rated for their friendliness
>> and professionalism among other things. Maybe they will put this DZ low on
>> their list this year!
***********************************
Ummmm Damn I wuz thinking ewe were RW Queens or sumthang. Maby not, Jason is a
funny name for a girl. Try not to git all
emotional becuz Skydiving is about 90 %
mental stress and even ewe young kids
that have the physical grace of youth need
to work on mental disipline and humor. Those
two things help ewe relax and overcome
unspoken fear. Yuh yuh natural reactions
but ewe need to work on things like that
and picking up sign, signals, FF & Canopy
survival skills, reading peoples minds and
all kind of good shit unless ewe want to be
a Cessna homeboy all yer life And then
And even then, Ohmmmmmmmmmmmm
shit happens :-) snuffy sez good luck kid
try to laff it off and have fun. It can be a
pure spiritual sport, just work on that Zen
Don't let shit bum ewe out, nobody is
perfect and even a percentage of the perfect people bounce. Ohmmmmm Ohmmmmm
shit happens be cool be quick
stay safe :-* snuffy sez this ain't my regular
Satire shit so heads up! :-P
TooyT
Wrote:
>I think the group of "10" should become the chosen "10" only after being
>trained by Snuffy !
>
>Then they could definitely go out, evaluate the DZ's for ALL aspects
>(safety, efficiency, friendliness & don't forget fun).
>
>Kinda like some of the top company's secret shopper program.
>
>Troy
>
>TooyT <to...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19981203113706...@ng110.aol.com>...
>> >From: "jaime" <jaime@longbow. Wrote:
>>
>> >And that is why?
>> >
>> >I am part of the group call the "one" and maybe I will put you on my
>list of
>> >....whatever! list people.
>> >
>> >Cyborg wrote in message <36669...@news.compuvar.com>...
>They
>> >>publish a DZ rating list every year. DZ's are rated for their
>friendliness
>> >>and professionalism among other things. Maybe they will put this DZ low
>on
>> >>their list this year!
>> ***********************************
>> Wow this is sounding like a commie conspiricy
>> where yawl homebased.
>Washington D.C. Waco or Austin? :-P snuffy sez
>kinda like
>> them American militia nut groups huh? Any
>> of ewe try out for deguello yet? Auggggggg
>> ha ha ha Glad I retired before altitude & bad
>> flares made me as strange as yawl. :-*
***********************************
I thinking that won't work cuz I have ben
known to have a hard on for Yuppies and
City people and ever sense I gave up on
formal eddycation and discovered Mad Magazine has all the knowelge I need,
few people wud be able to interpret my
report. Shit I a twisted old sumbitch that
likes to insult people he likes and be nice
to total assholes but then again I insult assholes
too so it wud be hard to tell what the hell
I wuz thinking. Plenty of good skydivers
and DZ's out there though keep looking
till ewe match one then try not to show
yer young ass's unless ewe got a thick
skin, have fun, Skydive & be safe
TRY NOT TO PISS THE S&TA off
even if its an asshole type with less jumps
than ewe, poor bastards have a thankless
job, think hard before using advice, it may not
work or fit your circumstances :-P snuffy
sez use yer noodle ewe LEG ASS SHEEP
TooyT
it was
>> still only one jump. Not enough to judge an entire DZ by. In their
>defense,
a person can learn a lot more about self and skydiving on unpleasant jumps than
perfect
ones. Run through it again and again till ewe
find one good nuget in it, it can be a gold
mine if ewe dig. Ohmmmmm suck it up
Ohmmmmm think it over Ohmmmmmm ewe
will learn but never forgit Ohmmmmmm
shit happens, shit happens to everybody
draw spiritual strength from hardship. Keep
at it, one day the answer will be clear Ohmmm
Augggg ha ha ha only skydivers cud luv this insane dysfunctional DZ family
shit. :-P coyote
Mark Poulter
TooyT wrote in message <19981203172203...@ng26.aol.com>...
>a KID WROTE:>We made ONE jump there. Yes, it was one very unpleasant jump,
but
>it was
>>> still only one jump. Not enough to judge an entire DZ by.
There are plenty of DZ's around here in Australia too, and one that sounds
exactly like Texas. YOU DO only need one jump, and then not even that to
judge what a DZ is like. The atmosphere and the people and their attitude is
(almost) as important as the jumps themselves!!!! There is no such thing as
a skygod in our sport, if the more experienced are honest with themselves
and everyone else they will agree that the sport has a constant and never
ending learning curve. YOU CAN NEVER KNOW IT ALL!!!
Blue ones.
Mark D2636.
Lew Douva
>exactly like Texas. YOU DO only need one jump, and then not even that to
>judge what a DZ is like. The atmosphere and the people and their attitude is
>(almost) as important as the jumps themselves!!!! There is no such thing as
>a skygod in our sport, if the more experienced are honest with themselves
>and everyone else they will agree that the sport has a constant and never
>ending learning curve. YOU CAN NEVER KNOW IT ALL!!!
>
>Blue ones.
>Mark D2636.
Alright, I was REALLY trying to stay out of this debate, but now I feel
obligated to throw in my $.02. It's not fare to judge a DZ by a first
impression, just like it isn't fare to judge a person by a first impression.
My first jump at my current DZ was far from an inspirational first impression.
My load was delayed while they looked for a piece of bailing wire to fix the
engine on the plane. They couldn't find any bailing wire and ended up using a
piece of string which eventually got hot and broke, causing us to have to exit
at 5,000' (nothing serious, we just couldn't climb any more). Now, had I made
the assumption that this was "normal" at this DZ, I probably would not have
returned. But I didn't make that assumption. I gave the DZ and its employees
the benefit of the doubt, assumed that I had just stumbled onto a freak
occurrence, and came back the next week. Turns out I was right. I've never
had a problem since, and I've never met a nicer, more fun bunch of people.
Now, with that said, let me make one final point. We are beating a dead horse.
Let the thread die. Everyone who made the original few posts have patched it
up with each other, and there's really nothing left to bicker about. My DZ is
the current DZ of the original poster and several native Skydive Texans. We
really don't need any internal turmoil. There's enough real problems in the
world without this crap. I feel like I'm back in high school watching a
putdown war between my school and the local rival.
--Douva
B-21806
There's no such thing as a bad DZ, just bad jumpers, bad weather, and the
occasional bad luck.
TooyT
Wrote:
>We are beating a dead horse.
> Let the thread die. Everyone who made the original few posts have patched
>it
>up with each other, and there's really nothing left to bicker about.
Ah ha! the humor hounds smelt sheep blood
and yawl got skurd huh?
>My DZ is
>the current DZ of the original poster and several native Skydive Texans. We
>really don't need any internal turmoil. There's enough real problems in the
world without this crap.
***********************************
Uh, this is the skydiving ng we ain't here
to solve world problems. Yawl dun sed Texas
so many times I begining to think its Georgia
Skydivers playing a trick. Sumbody posted
that the kids were from a 10 person cessna
DZ just out looking for adventure. Spank
them. And although 2 people leaving a
10 regular person jump base has got to be
tuff on buisness bite the bullet and tuffen
their young ass's up cuz sooner or later
they gonna sneak off again, don't want to see
them go out into the cold world without street
smarts do you? I gonna miss this thread no
shit. The sport grew outta one cessna DZ's
and I see the kids still want to expand out
and spread their wings give them hell if
ewe ain't gonna let us do it, make them
sweat. yuh git on them young ass's. They
don't know how good they have it at home.
Patch them ass's up with a switch then
take them on a day trip to the turbine
zoo. Blindfold them and carry them to
Skydive Dallas or sumthing where they
can git it outta their system, then blindfold
them and bring em home. Maybe they won't
be able to find it again. Even hardcore
traveling Skydivers come back to their home
DZ. but kids, ewe got to ease them out there
so they live to come back or they won't.
Good luck & blues ewe gotta
learn to let go or it will be a one point
skydive :-) snuffy
An985
>> Let the thread die. Everyone who made the original few posts have
geez, y'all have WAY too much spare time on yer hands..
jsc...@my-dejanews.com
> has got to be tuff on buisness bite the bullet and tuffen
> their young ass's up cuz sooner or later
> they gonna sneak off again, don't want to see
> them go out into the cold world without street
> smarts do you?
SIR, YES, SIR !!
NO APOLOGIES, SIR !!
NO MERCY, SIR !!
<drop>
1, 2, 3,...,20
<attention>
SIR !!
Jason A-30174
TooyT
Damn does every one from that DZ
take whine 101? And we beat sheep not ded
horses. Best thing for yawl to do is stay
down on the farm and play with the cessna,
ignor the world be like the Britt's start yer
own ng so ewe doan have to hear it from
the unwashed mass of Philisines. teach
them kids some survival skills before they
run away again. No one out here wants
to see the Hooterville kids get hurt :-P snuffy