How about the Atom container?
Robert...@my-dejanews.com
I wonder why it is that untill today I have never heard of any American
company that sells Atom containers. It also seems like this container is
hardly used by anybody in the USA, even though I have often seen other strange
brands, like the dolphin, centaurus (???), sidewinder etc. I live in The
Netherlands and here isn't it rare to see an Atom at a dropzone.
Can anyone explain me why this is? I once read something (don't know where)
about it not being TSO'd?...
Blue Skies,
Robert.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Peter Lucas
In article <6juch1$vb3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Robert...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
**I wonder why it is that untill today I have never heard of any American
**company that sells Atom containers. It also seems like this container is
**hardly used by anybody in the USA, even though I have often seen other strange
**brands, like the dolphin, centaurus (???), sidewinder etc. I live in The
**Netherlands and here isn't it rare to see an Atom at a dropzone.
**
**Can anyone explain me why this is? I once read something (don't know where)
**about it not being TSO'd?...
Shit, that goes back to '92-'93(??)
I remember an Italian friend at the Perris DZ having one and there was a
problem with him jumping it. (Just checked my log book......... May '93)
And they *still* aren't TSO'd?? (Does that tell you anything??)
Peter
Peter Lucas # Doubt not therefore Sir, #
Brisbane # that bodyflying is an art.#
Australia # And it is an art #
# worth your learning. #
zoso
Peter Lucas wrote:
>
> And they *still* aren't TSO'd?? (Does that tell you anything??)
Yes. That either a)there's an inside deal going on or b)Americans don't
consider anything manufactured off the mainland good enough. You pick.
The Atom is a great rig (two of my friends have them) and I can't for
the life of me figure out why they aren't good enough for Americans.
But, then again, Raven reserves aren't approved in Norway, so I guess it
goes both ways.
Fly High, Bounce Low!
Espen
B-2574 (Norwegian, not USPA)
ISU Skydivers & Kjevik FSK
David Tolan
I don't know much about the TSO or the history behind this, but the Atom is a very
popular rig at our DZ here in Ireland and we've had no problems that I can remember.
Wasn't there was a _BIG_ fuss about Javelin Rigs with soft housings for the cutaway
cables. I think there were some rigs grounded on our DZ until they got replacement
metal housings - at the very least people were _Strongly Recommended_ to get the
housings replaced. Were these rigs TSO'd ?
Dave.
PS. I have nothing against Javelins, Up till recently I had a Javelin (with metal
housings) and I loved it. I would definately buy one again.
Peter Lucas wrote:
> **Can anyone explain me why this is? I once read something (don't know where)
> **about it not being TSO'd?...
>
> Shit, that goes back to '92-'93(??)
> I remember an Italian friend at the Perris DZ having one and there was a
> problem with him jumping it. (Just checked my log book......... May '93)
>
> And they *still* aren't TSO'd?? (Does that tell you anything??)
>
zoso
David Tolan wrote:
>
> Wasn't there was a _BIG_ fuss about Javelin Rigs with soft housings for the cutaway
There's been a big fuss about _all_ soft housings, regardless of rig.
Even the inventor of the 3-ring release system has said that everyone
that has them should trade them in and get hard housings. But that's a
different thread :)
About the Atom, it seems that there's a problem approving foreign
equipment in the US. Why I don't know.
TooyT
>From: zoso <bjor...@va.telia.no> Wrote:
>Wasn't there was a _BIG_ fuss about Javelin Rigs with soft housings for the
>cutaway
I jump a J-5 fer years with the soft housing, me huv no problem.
It the kids thut put thut modern small riser, mini 3 ring and
high load zp stuff on them thut huv problems plus they not
thread cutaway cable right, git it over or under main cord.
The tube housings cun cause problem too, if ewe not keep
rocks & dirt out. It boil down to inattention, I prefer the hard
housings now I only got one arm. heh heh blame yer screw
ups on the equipment kids, if yer still alive. heh heh Atom is
sum kinda ferin stuff. Bubba's doan drive no ferin cars or
jump ferin gear, only yup's and sheep do dat. ;-* snuffy
zoso
I'm honored. The mighty Snuffy replied to my post, and it's actually
readable. From experience that usually means that he's serious. What a
concept :)
TooyT wrote:
>
> >From: zoso <bjor...@va.telia.no> Wrote:
> >Wasn't there was a _BIG_ fuss about Javelin Rigs with soft housings for the
> >cutaway
> ***************************************************
> I jump a J-5 fer years with the soft housing, me huv no problem.
> It the kids thut put thut modern small riser, mini 3 ring and
> high load zp stuff on them thut huv problems plus they not
> thread cutaway cable right, git it over or under main cord.
True. The problem *usually* occurs when soft housings are combined with
mini-risers, mini 3-ring systems and a highly loaded zp canopy. Still,
the problem has been found on rigs with regular risers and 3-ring
systems.
> The tube housings cun cause problem too, if ewe not keep
> rocks & dirt out. It boil down to inattention, I prefer the hard
And that's why they recommend taking out the cut away cable once a month
and cleaning it. Had a couple of guys that thought oil was a great
lubricant for the cut away cable, not thinking that the one thing that
attracts the most dirt is, exactly, oil. They both had problems when
trying to cut away (on the ground, not in the air). Needless to say,
they didn't do it again.
> Atom is sum kinda ferin stuff.
Yep. French, and we all know how you feel about them ;)
Martin Robiette
zoso wrote:
>
> Peter Lucas wrote:
> >
> > And they *still* aren't TSO'd?? (Does that tell you anything??)
>
> consider anything manufactured off the mainland good enough. You pick.
> The Atom is a great rig (two of my friends have them) and I can't for
> the life of me figure out why they aren't good enough for Americans.
> But, then again, Raven reserves aren't approved in Norway, so I guess it
> goes both ways.
>
The way I heard it, PdF has the Atom (and their reserves) approved under
French military specs which are as good or better than TSO, so they
didn't see why they should spend all the money required to TSO it as
well. I can see their point, but it does seem a little short-sighted
given the potential sales volume in America (especially a few years ago
when there weren't the same number of alternative rigs on the market).
Of course, this is just DZ rumour, so feel free to contradict me if you
have facts that prove otherwise.
FWIW I think the Atom is a great container, and possibly the most
comfortable I have ever jumped. I have a couple of friends who are very
happy with theirs - I would love to see it marketed in the US, together
with the latest PdF reserves (Techno?).
My .02
Martin
D9144(UK)
zoso
Martin Robiette wrote:
>
> The way I heard it, PdF has the Atom (and their reserves) approved under
> French military specs which are as good or better than TSO, so they
> didn't see why they should spend all the money required to TSO it as
> well. I can see their point, but it does seem a little short-sighted
> given the potential sales volume in America (especially a few years ago
> when there weren't the same number of alternative rigs on the market).
> Of course, this is just DZ rumour, so feel free to contradict me if you
> have facts that prove otherwise.
I won't contradict you as I don't have the facts myself. I'm gonna try
to find out though.
> FWIW I think the Atom is a great container, and possibly the most
> comfortable I have ever jumped. I have a couple of friends who are very
> happy with theirs - I would love to see it marketed in the US, together
> with the latest PdF reserves (Techno?).
That makes two of us. I've tried on the rig (never actually jumped it)
and it felt really nice. I've never heard a bad word about it either.
Also, their BT-Pro canopies are awesome canopies, but they seem to
prefer hook-turns as opposed to front-riser turns, which (IMHO) isn't
really a good thing.
I'll see what I can dig up about the TSO thing and let whoever is
interested know when I do.
TooyT
>From: Martin Robiette <martin....@xspamx.xboeingx.com>
WROTE:
>> The Atom is a great rig (two of my friends have them) and I can't for
>> the life of me figure out why they aren't good enough for Americans.
>> But, then again, Raven reserves aren't approved in Norway, so I guess it
>> goes both ways.
Works fer us Feriner, the Yups howl but we lakk thut anyway.
yup yup ;-) snuffy
TooyT
>From: zoso <bjor...@va.telia.no>
>Date: Thu, May 21, 1998 23:34 EDT Wrote:
> Atom is sum kinda ferin stuff.
>
>Yep. French, and we all know how you feel about them ;)
>
>Fly High, Bounce Low!
>Espen
>B-2574 (Norwegian, not USPA)
>ISU Skydivers & Kjevik FSK
***************************************************
Hey I luv's the FRUNCH, Thay on cutting edge and sum
bodatious skydivers in Frunhylund. Snuffy luv's all people's
but kinda suspicious of long nose Finn's calling thum salves
Norwegian Vikeings, hey ew guys molest Raindeer lakk we
do sheep????? ;-* snuffy
zoso
TooyT wrote:
>
> but kinda suspicious of long nose Finn's calling thum salves
> Norwegian Vikeings,
They are wannabees I tell you, wannabees!!! If you're not from the "land
of ice and snow", you're not a viking!! :)
hey ew guys molest Raindeer lakk we
> do sheep????? ;-* snuffy
ROFL!! That would be the northern parts, don't have reindeers all the
way south (yes I'm a southerner too:). Here we have to stay with sheep
as well so we're not as sofisticated as the northerners. We try though,
that's why we either paint them or get a plastic one ;)
Paul Koning
zoso wrote:
>
> David Tolan wrote:
> >
> > Wasn't there was a _BIG_ fuss about Javelin Rigs with soft housings for the cutaway
>
> Even the inventor of the 3-ring release system has said that everyone
> that has them should trade them in and get hard housings.
Let's be careful please.
There were problem reports with some specific rigs with some specific
soft housing designs. There are also a lot of other rigs with other
kinds of soft housing designs for which no problem have been reported.
Please don't make sweeping generalizations that all soft housings
are bad since the data don't support such a generalization.
(Yes, Bill Booth has also made such generalizations -- from what
I can tell he has no specific data either. He certainly didn't
present any. Note that he's NOT an unbiased observer.)
paul
TooyT
><bjor...@va.telia.no>
>Date: Fri, May 22, 1998 00:15 EDT
>Message-id: <3564FB...@va.telia.no> Wrote:
>
>
***************************************************
Ho Kay long nose, huv fun, blue & safe sky's, doan freeze nutting off thut
might be usefull ;-* snuffy
Tom Beals
>ROFL!! That would be the northern parts, don't have reindeers all the
>way south (yes I'm a southerner too:). Here we have to stay with sheep
>as well so we're not as sofisticated as the northerners.
Norwegian - from the south? Does that make you a Souwegian?
Just Curious
Jerome Paret
Robert...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> I wonder why it is that untill today I have never heard of any American
> company that sells Atom containers. It also seems like this container is
> hardly used by anybody in the USA, even though I have often seen other strange
> brands, like the dolphin, centaurus (???), sidewinder etc. I live in The
> Netherlands and here isn't it rare to see an Atom at a dropzone.
>
> Can anyone explain me why this is? I once read something (don't know where)
> about it not being TSO'd?...
>
> Blue Skies,
> Robert.
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Some informations about the Atom container:
- it has been TSO'd only recently, the main reason being that the french
certification system is different and they just didn't want to pay for the TSO
tests which were not necessary.
- the main reason why you can't find them in the US is, I was told, that
Parachutes de France (manufacturer of the Atom, Techno reserves and Blue Track
mains) is owned by the Zodiac company (they make boats)..
Some years ago, a stupid guy using a boat in a way it was not designed for just
got drowned.
The family sued the company and won. This was a VERY big money loss for the
Zodiac company.
Now they consider that selling parachutes in the US is just too risky and they
asked Parachutes de France not to try selling in the US. Of course, if you want
to get an Atom rig you still can order one but they just don't advertise for
their products in the US.
My .02
Jerome.
William
From what I understand if you want to sell the rig in the U.S. Go through
the TSO process. If PdF is sure it will pass the TSO testing, then it's
just money that would have to be recouped in sales. All the people selling
tso'ed rigs in the U.S. did so. Or lobby the USPA to Lobby the FAA to
accept rigs that have passed a more strenuous test than the TSO.
Bill
zoso <bjor...@va.telia.no> wrote in article <3564F9...@va.telia.no>...
zoso
Paul Koning wrote:
>
> zoso wrote:
> >
> > There's been a big fuss about _all_ soft housings, regardless of rig.
> > Even the inventor of the 3-ring release system has said that everyone
> > that has them should trade them in and get hard housings.
>
> Let's be careful please.
Agreed, sorry about that.
>
> There were problem reports with some specific rigs with some specific
> soft housing designs. There are also a lot of other rigs with other
> kinds of soft housing designs for which no problem have been reported.
>
> Please don't make sweeping generalizations that all soft housings
> are bad since the data don't support such a generalization.
This is true. The thing is, there hasn't been (to my knowledge) reported
an incident were a skydiver was unable to cut away the main, when using
hard housings, where the housings were the reasons for it. When people
have been unable to cut away from a rig with hard housings there has
always been other factors involved such as dirt inside the housings.
With soft housings, a spinning malfunction on a highly loaded (usually
elliptical) canopy the housing itself is the reason for the jumpers
unability to cut away. Not all soft housings has experienced such a
problem, but no hardhousing has either.
> (Yes, Bill Booth has also made such generalizations -- from what
> I can tell he has no specific data either. He certainly didn't
> present any. Note that he's NOT an unbiased observer.)
Agreed. I don't have the article in Parachutist where I read this, but
he wasn't alone in his view. But then again, that doesn't remove his
bias.
TooyT
>From: Jerome Paret <pa...@physique.ens.fr> Wrote:
>Robert...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> I wonder why it is that untill today I have never heard of any American
>> company that sells Atom containers. It also seems like this container is
>> hardly used by anybody in the USA, even though I have often seen other
>strange
>> brands, like the dolphin, centaurus (???), sidewinder etc. I live in The
>> Netherlands and here isn't it rare to see an Atom at a dropzone.
> Can anyone explain me why this is? I once read something (don't know where)
>> about it not being TSO'd?...
>>
>> Blue Skies,
>> Robert.
***************************************************
I Axplain it, see USA skydivers is stuck up as the Frunch one's
thut why so many DZM's say stay away snuffy, thay stuck up
no lakk simple shit old man and they no lakk shit simple Frunch stuff either!.
;-* snuffy
TooyT
><bjor...@va.telia.no> Wrote:
>This is true. The thing is, there hasn't been (to my knowledge) reported
>an incident were a skydiver was unable to cut away the main, when using
>hard housings, where the housings were the reasons for it. When people
>have been unable to cut away from a rig with hard housings there has
>always been other factors involved such as dirt inside the housings.
>With soft housings, a spinning malfunction on a highly loaded (usually
>elliptical) canopy the housing itself is the reason for the jumpers
>unability to cut away. Not all soft housings has experienced such a
>problem, but no hardhousing has either.
>
>> (Yes, Bill Booth has also made such generalizations -- from what
>> I can tell he has no specific data either. He certainly didn't
>> present any. Note that he's NOT an unbiased observer.)
>
>Agreed. I don't have the article in Parachutist where I read this, but
>he wasn't alone in his view. But then again, that doesn't remove his
>bias.
>Fly High, Bounce Low!
>Espen
>B-2574 (Norwegian, not USPA)
>ISU Skydivers & Kjevik FSK
***************************************************
Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW CUM EWE SPEAK BUTTER ENGLISH
THUN ME EWE long nosed Raindeer humper?? ;-Psnuffy
zoso
TooyT wrote:
>
> ***************************************************
> Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW CUM EWE SPEAK BUTTER ENGLISH
> THUN ME EWE long nosed Raindeer humper?? ;-Psnuffy
Hmmm..could it be that I actually got *accepted* to college?!?! :)
Booom!!...slam dunk...on your a$$ :)
PS: It might have something to do with the reindeer, I have to look into
that too.
TooyT
><bjor...@va.telia.no>
>Date: Fri, May 22, 1998 06:03 EDT Wrote:
>TooyT wrote:
>Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW CUM EWE SPEAK BUTTER ENGLISH
>> THUN ME EWE long nosed Raindeer humper?? ;-Psnuffy
>Hmmm..could it be that I actually got *accepted* to college?!?! :)
>Booom!!...slam dunk...on your a$$ :)
>
>PS: It might have something to do with the reindeer, I have to look into
>that too.
>
>Fly High, Bounce Low!
>Espen
>B-2574 (Norwegian, not USPA)
>ISU Skydivers & Kjevik FSK
***************************************************
If ewe hadda go to cullage, yeg got my condolances. Now move
to Georgia USA with the rest of them HILLBILLY NO SEATBELT Spel checkers ;-P
snuffy
zoso
TooyT wrote:
>
> If ewe hadda go to cullage, yeg got my condolances. Now move
> to Georgia USA with the rest of them HILLBILLY NO SEATBELT Spel checkers ;-P
> snuffy
No condolances necessary, it was voluntary. And I won't move to Georgia.
I've got enough problems living in Iowa :( No seatbelts though ;)
Winsor Naugler III
Paul Koning wrote in message <35647F...@xedia.com>...
>zoso wrote:
>>
>> David Tolan wrote:
>> >
>> > Wasn't there was a _BIG_ fuss about Javelin Rigs with soft housings for
the cutaway
>>
>> There's been a big fuss about _all_ soft housings, regardless of rig.
>> Even the inventor of the 3-ring release system has said that everyone
>> that has them should trade them in and get hard housings.
>
>Let's be careful please.
>
>There were problem reports with some specific rigs with some specific
>soft housing designs. There are also a lot of other rigs with other
>kinds of soft housing designs for which no problem have been reported.
>
>Please don't make sweeping generalizations that all soft housings
>are bad since the data don't support such a generalization.
>
>(Yes, Bill Booth has also made such generalizations -- from what
>I can tell he has no specific data either. He certainly didn't
>present any. Note that he's NOT an unbiased observer.)
>
As is patently obvious, all generalizations are bullshit.
Blue skies,
Winsor
Elladan
> As is patently obvious, all generalizations are bullshit.
>
> Blue skies,
>
> Winsor
Even this one?
CRW skies
Paul J.
Winsor Naugler III
Elladan wrote in message <35796BFA...@treknet.net>...
>
>
>
>> As is patently obvious, all generalizations are bullshit.
>>
>> Blue skies,
>>
>> Winsor
>
> Even this one?
>
Especially this one. To be specific, of course.
Blue skies,
Winsor