Frap hats - some history about the "coolness"...
Gary Peek
Basically I have noticed that most skydivers are sheep and just
follow the trends, whether they favor safety or not. In particular
skydivers follow the trends of (mainly RW) competitors, figuring
that if they do what competitors do, they will automatically be
good too. (Magic skydiving pill.)
Skydiving headwear:
Skydivers started with football helmets, motorcycle helmets, and
other bulky helmets because those were what was available. Lots
of protection (which was probably good in the days of the round
parachute and PLF's).
Then skydivers favored rigid plastic helmets like hockey helmets,
because they provide a decent amount of protection, yet are light
weight and not too hot in the summer. Common sense, OK protection,
right? This was good.
Well, suddenly competitors began teaching "peripheral vision" and
looking in the direction of turning (like you needed to tell someone
something so obvious). Suddenly hockey helmets were not "cool" because
competitors and their sheep claimed that they reduced periperal
vision. (On small-headed persons maybe, because the helmets are
all one size but with different liners, but I know I can't see
any of my Protec when wearing it.)
Pull out the frap hats! Now frap hats were "cool" with wannbe RW
folks because of the (mainly perceived) periperal vision issue, and
the hell with actual head protection. If you were really daring (and
cool) you skipped the headgear altogether.
Time went by and stories arose of competitors being so good that
they were turning fast and hitting each other in the head, so
what do you think happened? Bring on the full-faced helmets!
After all you and your RW buddies are so good that you will
surely be cranking the points and hitting each other in the heads!
But what about peripheral vision? Well, it is claimed that these
new cool helmets don't reduce peripheral vision. Believe it? I
don't. It is obvious to me that most do. And not being able to hear
as well under canopy seems a safety disadvantage doesn't it?
(At least these helmets increase head protection, and I can see
a winter advantage.)
Now frap hats are "unsafe". Huh? Said by those whose used to
claim that they were the only way to go.
And I have even heard from some skydivers that they think rigid
plastic helmets are no longer "safe". Then why are we putting
them on students, the most likely skydivers to hit their head
on something?
(I can see it coming, "student helmets".)
Sheep, What's next?
--
Gary Peek
mailto:pe...@freefall.com
jsk
Gary Peek wrote:
>
> Sheep, What's next?
>
> --
> Gary Peek
> mailto:pe...@freefall.com
That's not a nice way to talk to your constituents. ;-)
JK - Homewood, IL.
Tom Buchanan
>new cool helmets don't reduce peripheral vision. Believe it? I
>don't. It is obvious to me that most do. And not being able to hear
>as well under canopy seems a safety disadvantage doesn't it?
>(At least these helmets increase head protection
Hey Gary, I was actually just talking about the helmet safety issue a few days
ago, mostly regarding the new and very cool looking full face helmets.
Is there any safety documentation or data available about any of those new
helmets? Are they all the same, or are some brands better than others, and is
there any data to back that up?
I think motorcycle helmets must meet federal safety standards, but there is no
standard for skydiving helmets, and as far as I can tell, no objective testing.
The new full face helmets do look safer than a frap hat, but I wonder if they
are really any better than a Pro-Tec, and how the various brands compare
against each other.
Thoughts anybody?
-Tom Buchanan
Dusty Trale
"jsk" <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
news:3C7D110E...@kallend.net...
Its O.K., its not an election year. Sheep have very bad memories.
Dusty
jsk
What do you expect them to protect against? Getting kicked in the face
is more likely in RW competition than in freestyle. Banging into the
door frame is a hazard of 10-way speed. Personally, I like the mouth
protection provided by the full face helmet (whether or not you use a
visor). Seems to me that different disciplines would result in
different risks and different "optimal" helmet designs.
>
> Thoughts anybody?
>
> -Tom Buchanan
pcb1
actually provide some testing protocol. Whether that makes a safer helmet
may be debatable. Probably it does.
I know of no such guidelines for skydiving helmets and and I have looked
half seriously for such.
I've always worn some kind of helmet. I used to wear a freefly type helmet
but after getting my goggles kicked off several times, I now have a full
face. Problem solved. It's also quieter but hotter in the summer.
--Paul
Mark Harju
kicked in the face, imho.
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"pcb1" <pc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Mark Harju
Foundation in order to set a "Snell Rating" for skydiving helmets (after,
all they [Snell] rate helmets for LOTS of other sports, including
snowboarding, etc. Please see http://www.smf.org/cert.html), but
unfortunately, I got nowhere.
You can forget about USDOT. They could not care less, since it isn't their
turf (skydiving is not a form of transportation, just a largely unregulated
subcategory of aviation), and besides, "If you sup with the devil, you'll
need a long spoon".
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"Tom Buchanan" <tom...@aol.comJunkfree> wrote in message
news:20020227122552...@mb-cl.aol.com...
Cloud buster
>kicked in the face, imho.
Uh ........... some of those faces would be improved with a few kicks, imho.
Duck
JimBo
>From: Gary Peek
>Skydiving headwear:
Nope, sorry dont use it.
Dont wanna mess up my peripheral vision.
Besides I like the way freefall messes up my hair.:o)
jim
D-10154
Done a jump or two
Man small , why fall ? Skies call, thats all.
ynotssor
news:20020227194230...@mb-fx.aol.com...
[...]
>>Skydiving headwear:
>
> Nope, sorry dont use it.
> Dont wanna mess up my peripheral vision.
> Besides I like the way freefall messes up my hair.:o)
Yeah, I get confused between that and gradual erosion brought about by the
caressing fingers of hot women?
tony
LORD OF THE SKY
pcb1 <pc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wWaf8.21066$ZC3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> but after getting my goggles kicked off several times, I now have a full
> face. Problem solved.
No Paul , the problem is not solved .
The problem is/was collisions in freefall. Kicks to the face. Face to
face contact by those who over amp and those that don't posses necessary
skills.
The problem is that formation freefall used to be considered a
discipline and now it is a free for all with hard contact accepted as the
norm where as it used to be reason for re-education.
No Paul, the problem is still there and perhaps even multiplying.
Full face helmets have not solved the problem, they've only served
as a band-aid ,temporarily.
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
Fastsftail
>discipline and now it is a free for all with hard contact accepted as the
bullshit
LORD OF THE SKY
Fastsftail <fasts...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020227204440...@mb-mn.aol.com...
Bull shit you pal !
I've done these threads with you before.
Now it is accepted as the norm that close contact in the quick turning
of points can bash out teeth and worse unless each competitor wears a
helmet.
It used to be that such dangerous contact was unacceptable and the
offending party was marked as unsafe in the air.
Bull shit?
I don't think so.
Learn to do RW without combat contact.
In fact I know that as a matter of safety and to once again bring
the adjective of *discipline* back to RW this wording should be incorporated
into the rules; Any cranial or helmet contact shall constitute a bust of the
dive.
Fastsftail
>of points can bash out teeth and worse unless each competitor wears a
>helmet.
> It used to be that such dangerous contact was unacceptable and the
>offending party was marked as unsafe in the air.
> Bull shit?
> I don't think so.
> Learn to do RW without combat contact.
> In fact I know that as a matter of safety and to once again bring
>the adjective of *discipline* back to RW this wording should be incorporated
>into the rules; Any cranial or helmet contact shall constitute a bust of the
>dive.
you don't do much 4 way, do you?
Karen
After nine years still has alot of life left in it. Daltoe' has the
best pattern/design for frap hats I've seen. (not a egg head shape)
Talk about complete comfort in freefall- don't even know it is there.
I do not wear it on every jump- depends who I am jumping with...
Aware it doesn't protect my head- it protects my fine hair.
Karen ;o)
"JimBo" <sb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020227194230...@mb-fx.aol.com...
> >Subject: Frap hats - some history about the "coolness"...
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
LORD OF THE SKY
>
> you don't do much 4 way, do you?
Most every weekend but we aren't looking to impress .
If a fifth, sixth ,seventh or whoever wants to come along that's fine too.
The direct answer to your question is no, I don't do any
*competition* four way.
And once again , if the rules of competition stated that any head
contact would automatically result in a bust for the dive, safety and
discipline would be enhanced. How about if we ban helmets from 4-way comp?
Would that lead to more four way *discipline* and less head strikes?
Lord Phoenix
>new cool helmets don't reduce peripheral vision. Believe it? I
>don't. It is obvious to me that most do. And not being able to hear
>as well under canopy seems a safety disadvantage doesn't it?
>(At least these helmets increase head protection, and I can see
>a winter advantage.)
And when you biff a landing [esp. when you fuck up a swoop] the full face
protects your face... No other head gear comes close. I fucked up a swoop
once and went face first. I was glad that I chose to wear my Z1 on that
jump. [0700, Labor day weekend. Cold...]
D16842
probably 10X faster than in years past. Add some vertical transitions that
might not be vertical enough and wham. We need the helmets more than before.
Tom B
tbos...@onyx.boisestate.edu
[ A bunch of stuff about helmets and frap hats ]
I prefer a rag actually. My favorite is white. And I stay away
from people whose feet are spinning in circles in the air. Sometimes
I get really crazy and get in on a four way exit from a 182. Now
that scares me. As soon as someone is closing fast on the formation,
I turn-track-and-dump. Kinda scary doing rw with no helmet and no
cypress. Oh yeah... you should check out my jump suit... it's a
pair of wranglers and a t-shirt, except in summer when the t-shirt
isn't necessary, and I can substitute shorts for the wranglers.
Shane
jsk
JimBo wrote:
>
> >Subject: Frap hats - some history about the "coolness"...
> >From: Gary Peek
>
> >Skydiving headwear:
>
> Nope, sorry dont use it.
Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
jsk
How about getting the IOC to ban helmets in Skeleton and Bobsled and ice
hockey - make them be more disciplined. Why do the hockey goalies wear
so much protection anyway? - just award a penalty if someone hits the
puck into the goalie's teeth. Come to think of it, banning seatbelts
would improve the quality of driving on the highways, too.
Anyone for touch football?
Ann Poblenz
seemst to me your agreeing w Bruce and not Treetop
freeflyer
>
>>I have to go with Treetop on this one. Modern 4 way has piece rotations
>>probably 10X faster than in years past. Add some vertical transitions that
>>might not be vertical enough and wham. We need the helmets more than before.
>>
>>Tom B
>>
>
> seemst to me your agreeing w Bruce and not Treetop
You really shouldn't confuse Tom with logic :o)
--
Espen
ALF#1
freeflyer
>
> How about getting the IOC to ban helmets in Skeleton and Bobsled and ice
> hockey - make them be more disciplined. Why do the hockey goalies wear
> so much protection anyway? - just award a penalty if someone hits the
> puck into the goalie's teeth.
How is skydiving related to these sports?
> Come to think of it, banning seatbelts
> would improve the quality of driving on the highways, too.
What's that saying about the safest car in the world again?
> Anyone for touch football?
Flag will do just fine, but I prefer the real thing.
Now, since when did skydiving become a contact-sport?
Livendive
"freeflyer" <free...@freeflyer.no> wrote in message
news:3C7EAA...@freeflyer.no...
> jsk wrote:
>
> >
>
> > How about getting the IOC to ban helmets in Skeleton and Bobsled and ice
> > hockey - make them be more disciplined. Why do the hockey goalies wear
> > so much protection anyway? - just award a penalty if someone hits the
> > puck into the goalie's teeth.
>
> How is skydiving related to these sports?
>
> > Come to think of it, banning seatbelts
> > would improve the quality of driving on the highways, too.
>
> What's that saying about the safest car in the world again?
It's made of glass and has a long, sharp spike in the center of the steering
wheel.
Blues,
Dave
D16842
>You really shouldn't confuse Tom with logic :o)
No, I can do that all by myself.
LORD OF THE SKY
> How about getting the IOC to ban helmets in Skeleton
Speaking of Olympic Skeleton,. The newest t-shirt in Noble, Georgia reads:
"Noble, Georgia: Home of the Unofficial US Olympic Skeleton Team!"
JimBo
>From: jsk jo...@kallend.net
>Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
Still wuddnt wear one Professor
D16842
>
>Still wuddnt wear one Professor
Wish you would Jim...BACKWARDS!!!!
Tom B
Ronjumps
broken.
And lets ban, high performance canopies.
Hell lets just go backwards.
Tree top, you don't like full face helmets,
Cool. But I like fast 4way....and I like full face helmets. And for what its
worth, I have been hit hardest, and most thankful for a full face jumping on
big ways, and with low timers than ever in 4way. And as for "Discipline" 4way
jumpers have ALOT of it. otherwise they could not push the limits. It takes
alot of work to move that fast. You don't like full face helmets....fine, but
don't say that todays jumpers are not as skilled as jumpers used to be. That
is bullshit.
Ron
Ann Poblenz
> A while back I tried to get helmet makers in contact with the Snell
> Foundation in order to set a "Snell Rating" for skydiving helmets (after,
> all they [Snell] rate helmets for LOTS of other sports, including
> snowboarding, etc. Please see http://www.smf.org/cert.html), but
> unfortunately, I got nowhere.
>
> You can forget about USDOT. They could not care less, since it isn't their
> turf (skydiving is not a form of transportation, just a largely unregulated
> subcategory of aviation), and besides, "If you sup with the devil, you'll
> need a long spoon".
>
why do you want the rated anyhow...for what purpose?????
Tandmterry
>>Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
>
>Still wuddnt wear one Professor
Prof after you been jumping 15 or 20 years lets see if you still jump in
January around Chicago.
Terry
LORD OF THE SKY
Ronjumps <ronj...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20020228192427...@mb-cb.news.cs.com...
> Tree top, you don't like full face helmets,
>You don't like full face helmets....fine,
First Ron , I never said I don't like full face helmets. I like them
very much. In fact I see them as a very important tool. A tool for the
experienced to identify the inept and careless.
> but
> don't say that todays jumpers are not as skilled as jumpers used to be.
That
> is bullshit.
I never made that statement either Ron.
What I said is ;
Now it is accepted as the norm that close contact in the quick turning
of points can bash out teeth and worse unless each competitor wears a
helmet.
It used to be that such dangerous contact was unacceptable and the
offending party was marked as unsafe in the air.
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
LORD OF THE SKY
Mark Harju <mark.a...@NO-SPAM.boeing.com> wrote in message
news:Gs7ML...@news.boeing.com...
> A while back I tried to get helmet makers in contact with the Snell
A while back ,Mark, I explained to you that Snell does not use full body
cadavers while testing helmets but rather only "head form models".
Christopher Reeves was wearing a helmet with a Snell Rating when he
fell off his horse .
Head form tests are not conclusive especially when considering full
face helmets. The "hangman's noose theory" comes to mind.
About Time
skydivers).
If the "experts" use it... we HAVE to have it, no matter if it helps or
hurts. Examples:
Bicycles: Used to have comfortable seats and easy to use pedals. Now, for
the last 10
years, kids bikes have seats so bad (because the professionals use them)
that they have been
a huge health problem for both boys and girls. And what about the "Pro
Racers" suits? I see
weekend idiots wearing this spandex nightmare as thought they are in
competition while riding
around the block. Sheep...all sheep.
Skydiving Flightsuits: Used to be huge. But the "Pros" found out that
points could be turned
faster with small suits. Joe Weekend flyer then decided that he needed to be
able to turn 18 points,
and so all of a sudden EVERYBODY tossed their big suits and bought something
damned near
closed to spandex. Only problem was that Joe Weekend forgot that his jump
pals were not all
within 5 pounds of each other like most of the Pros. So the last few years
of the 80s, not one
single point was ever made by any Joe Weekend flyers as they attempted to
figure out why 160
pound Jack Weekend couldnt catch 220 pound Big John Weekend. But thats OK
and nobody
ever talks about those years because they for once in thier lives looked
REALLY COOL!
Hockey Helmets: I liked em, and unless your eyes were set farther apart
than Jessee Jackson,
there was NO WAY you could see the helmet, much less it block your view.
The Frappys were
becoming popular but I refused to wear them because they looked just plain
goofy to me. Then
(thank God) the Protec became popular. Why? Was it better protection than
a hockey helmet?
Well... lets see.... Huge million dollar athletes playing hockey with these
hockey helmets, Vs us
wearing the Protec that even the manufactor says is useless in our sport.
But they still were an
improvement in LOOKS right? So we bought those! ( Of course the really
cool guys would never
be caught dead in a Protec... it was Frapps or rags on their heads. Ok by
me.
But then the dumbest thing I have witnessed in the sport happened. The full
faced helmet! Now,
I could understand all the benifits of using those for the hottest of the
hot. Those teams that make
every split second count. Those teams that turn points so fast that we cant
even count that high.
SO WHYARE WE NOW WEARING THEM? Because we want what the "Pros" wear. We
want to "look cool"! We want to PRETEND that we too are PROS! hahahaha
We are indeed jokes! Especially those of us who wear them as the only one,
in a weekend 4 way
attempt. (There's something about 2 Protecs/1 frapp hat/and a full face
helmet that just looks stupid)
HEY FULL FACE! Unless you're going for the Nationals.. loose that stupid
helmet! I mean, whats
the point of FUN JUMPING if your entire head is incased inside a
"controlled" environment? I
mean, you might as well be driving a CAR as opposed to be driving a
motorcycle right? Do you
wear that full faced helmet in your car too? ( I bet you do)
I cant wait to see what all the SHEEP will be wearing next year. OH! One
more thing... this
same sheep ,mentality goes far beyond looking stupid. As we have discovered
in the last 10
years... The sheep who want to jump the "pro" canopies are killing
themselves like flies.
BUT BOY DONT THEY LOOK COOL AS THEY BURN IN THAT LAST TIME!!!
"Gary Peek" <pe...@freefall.com> wrote in message
news:3C7D0FC5...@freefall.com...
> Interesting how things come full circle!
>
> Basically I have noticed that most skydivers are sheep and just
> follow the trends, whether they favor safety or not
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LORD OF THE SKY
About Time <wh...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3c7ed...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Drew Eckhardt
Ann Poblenz <noshit...@yeahsports.com> wrote:
>why do you want the rated anyhow...for what purpose?????
Avoiding head injuries and brain damage. Snell/ANSI approved helmets for
other sports have enough sacraficial foam so that many minor incidents won't
lead to trouble. While skydiving helmets prevent scalp wounds on exit and
bloody noses from violent RW, they don't have the foam and if they looked
like they did you wouldn't know whether it was enough.
--
<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a>
Some people consider posting to Usenet a solicitation for their advertising.
I consider such mail implicit agreement to entertain me via phone and e-mail.
kallend
freeflyer wrote:
>
> jsk wrote:
>
> >
>
> > How about getting the IOC to ban helmets in Skeleton and Bobsled and ice
> > hockey - make them be more disciplined. Why do the hockey goalies wear
> > so much protection anyway? - just award a penalty if someone hits the
> > puck into the goalie's teeth.
>
> How is skydiving related to these sports?
>
Since you are unable to figure it out for yourself: no one plans to get
hurt, but sh*t happens anyway, so the participants wear suitable
protection rather than dumbing down the sport.
kallend
JimBo wrote:
>
> >Subject: Re: Frap hats - some history about the "coolness"...
> >From: jsk jo...@kallend.net
>
> >Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
>
> Still wuddnt wear one Professor
Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves, too.
kallend
anonymously.
About Time wrote:
>
JimBo
>>Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
>>
>> Still wuddnt wear one Professor
>
>Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves, too.
>
I'm just some dumb.....not plumb dumb.
LORD OF THE SKY
kallend <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
news:3C7EF82E...@kallend.net...
> > How is skydiving related to these sports?
> >
>
> Since you are unable to figure it out for yourself: no one plans to get
> hurt, but sh*t happens anyway, so the participants wear suitable
> protection rather than dumbing down the sport.
It is my contention that "dumbing down the sport" is the impetus for this
new protection.
And have you read the Hang mans' noose theory ,Professor?
D16842
>It is my contention that "dumbing down the sport" is the impetus for this
>new protection.
Bored without the USPA meeting, and stirring things again Don?
My first helmet, a big heavy Bell Motorcycle one, cost more than my first rig,
a B12 harness and 28 ft 7TU with a 24 ft reserve. Helmets have always been part
of the sport. As you know.
Tom B
David Ferree
wrote:
>Now, since when did skydiving become a contact-sport?
Shortly after the first baton pass. Next.
David Ferree
>>Subject: Re: Frap hats - some history about the "coolness"...
>>From: jsk jo...@kallend.net
>
>>Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
>
>Still wuddnt wear one Professor
Now *that* is cool. Imagine that.
David Ferree
Poblenz) wrote:
>why do you want the rated anyhow...for what purpose?????
To give some indication that they actually provide some sort of
protection?
David Ferree
wrote:
(snip all the bullshit, and then):
>BUT BOY DONT THEY LOOK COOL AS THEY BURN IN THAT LAST TIME!!!
He get's it, if only accidentally.
David Ferree
<lord...@ellijay.com> wrote:
> It is my contention that "dumbing down the sport" is the impetus for this
>new protection.
This newsgroup is some sort of new protection?
LORD OF THE SKY
> Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves, too.
>
Listen Professor, You are at -28 only for a few seconds. As you fall
through the atmosphere the temperature rises.
In the end you are subject to about the same average temperatures for
the same duration as the average Mc'Donald fry-boy going into the deep
freeze to pluck out another bag of frozen taters.
Maybe all you really need is one of those "Fancy" Mc'Donalds' hats.
David Ferree
<lord...@ellijay.com> wrote:
> Maybe all you really need is one of those "Fancy" Mc'Donalds' hats.
No. Waffle House.
Petri Nurminen
> HEY FULL FACE! Unless you're going for the Nationals.. loose that stupid
> helmet! I mean, whats the point of FUN JUMPING if your entire head
> is incased inside a "controlled" environment? I
Would you mind explaining this to a friend of mine who in an offsite
landing hit the tarmac so hard that the chin-protecting part of Z1
broke?
Pet
--
Bacchus, n.:
A convenient deity invented by the ancients as an excuse for
getting drunk.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Peter Liemberg
>What really bother me are spineless whining posters that post
>anonymously.
Aint that funny John? Where you found a spineless whining post, I
found a well writen, keen and humerous observation of modern trends in
skydiving (& other activities). Full face BTW reminds me of the three
monkeys that see nothing, hear nothing and cant make a sound.*)
SAFE...
An observation that was brought to my attention years ago at a
skydiving safety seminar was the following: When in american footbal
the helmets became mandatory the scull injuries indeed diminished but
the serious neck injuries increased, since participants were now able
to use their well protected head as a crow bar in the opponents
defences. Another observation brought to us by psychologists studying
stress and stress managment: People will behave at their own
'comfortable' stress level. Give em ABS and airbags and they will
overtake the snowplough doing a comfortable 80 miles in the left lane.
Give em head-, knee- and wristprotection and the skateboard boldly
goes places 'no skater ever dared before' etcetera. People differ and
so do 'comfortable stress levels'...
If sport is 'western yoga', i.e. there's religiousness involved you
will see clothing and gadgets that say:
1. I belong to those that are initiated
2.I shared the sacraments - See?
3. I skate AND wear bagy trousers...
4. Read my confession of faith on my T-shirt...
Rationalizing afterwards seems a necessity of life.
AND freedom of religion is a constitutional right in most places...
*) BUT: if those three monkeys belong to the likes of Airspeed or the
Knights, it follows that they have an outlined idea what "all
participating monkeys" will do...hehehe...
Peter Liemberg
Tandmterry
>kallend <jo...@kallend.net>
>> Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves, too
Treetop wrote;
>Mc'Donald fry-boy going into the deep
>freeze to pluck out another bag of frozen taters.
Funny you mention McDonalds considering where the Prof jumps...hehehe
Terry
TY
incident?
freeflyer
>
>>What's that saying about the safest car in the world again?
>>
>
> It's made of glass and has a long, sharp spike in the center of the steering
> wheel.
Thanks Dave, but I was really interested in knowing whether
John remembered it.
--
Espen
ALF#1
freeflyer
>
>
>>Now, since when did skydiving become a contact-sport?
>
> Shortly after the first baton pass. Next.
Ok, when did it become a
contact-so-hard-you-will-lose-teeth-in-the-process-sport?
:o)
freeflyer
>
> Would you mind explaining this to a friend of mine who in an offsite
> landing hit the tarmac so hard that the chin-protecting part of Z1
> broke?
Now why did he choose to land on the tarmac?
TY
LORD OF THE SKY wrote:
> I like this guy!
I thought maybe he was your brother. :o)
Padalcek
news:d4298f58.02022...@posting.google.com...
>
> why do you want the rated anyhow...for what purpose?????
>
so somebody could sue the manufacturer?
--
Padalcek
HF #17
MB #2780
D-23938
When birds fly in the right formation they need only exert half the effort.
Even in nature teamwork results in collective laziness.
TY
kallend wrote:
>
> > >Come jump with us in Chicago next January.
> >
> > Still wuddnt wear one Professor
>
> Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves, too.
>
I got my husband a fullface for Christmas. (He aspires to be a Nancy lad.)
He used it last weekend but it frosted up under canopy and he couldn't see.
(The visor doesn't flip up.) He ended up switching back to a protec and
goggles. I've heard of others frosting up. Anything you can do about it?
kallend
kallend
LORD OF THE SKY wrote:
>
> kallend <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
> news:3C7EF8E5...@kallend.net...
> > Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves, too.
> >
> What a whoosy ass excuse.
Easy to say for someone that lives in Georgia. Talk is cheap, come up
here next January and show us, Don.
kallend
It goes like this:
<whine> Skydiving is going to hell in a handbasket </whine>
kallend
freeflyer wrote:
>
> Petri Nurminen wrote:
>
> >
> > Would you mind explaining this to a friend of mine who in an offsite
> > landing hit the tarmac so hard that the chin-protecting part of Z1
> > broke?
>
> Now why did he choose to land on the tarmac?
Maybe the same reason Tom Piras chose to turn off his CYPRES?
kallend
Breath through your skin?
D16842
>He used it last weekend but it frosted up under canopy and he couldn't see.
>(The visor doesn't flip up.) He ended up switching back to a protec and
>goggles. I've heard of others frosting up. Anything you can do about it?
>
A liberal amount of duct tape over his mouth and nose should stop the beathing
induced fogging. Is he insured?
Tom B
D16842
>landing hit the tarmac so hard that the chin-protecting part of Z1
>broke?
>
> Pet
Wouldn't it be better to just explain to your friend to land into the wind and
flare?
Tom B
D16842
>Ok, when did it become a
>contact-so-hard-you-will-lose-teeth-in-the-process-sport?
>:o)
>
Shortly after the first jumper brought his lucsious girlfriend to the DZ to
watch.
kallend
I expect he decided to land badly just because he was wearing a helmet
and felt invincible.
freeflyer
>
>>>Would you mind explaining this to a friend of mine who in an offsite
>>>landing hit the tarmac so hard that the chin-protecting part of Z1
>>>broke?
>>>
>>Now why did he choose to land on the tarmac?
>>
>
> Maybe the same reason Tom Piras chose to turn off his CYPRES?
No, I'm _quite_ certain it's not the same reason. Are you on
something? :o)
freeflyer
Speaking from experience? :o)
Mr. MOM
>and felt invincible.
Could be that full face helmet was restricting the blood flow to his brain,
prohibiting a reasoned thought process.
USPA SUCKS
Blue Skys and Godspeed,
Mr. MOM
http://www.moms-skyjumping.com/
The only guarantee in Skydiving is...you WILL land !
Mr. MOM
>hurt, but sh*t happens anyway, so the participants wear suitable
>protection rather than dumbing down the sport.
They wear suitable protection because the sport has been dumbed down. Many of
those "shit happens" could be avoided by using common sense, awareness, and
diligence.
.
>Many of those "shit happens" could be avoided by using common sense, awareness, and
>diligence.
EXPERIENCE teaches you how to deal with a problem situation
WISDOM teaches you how to avoid the problem situation all together
.
>Yes, a full-face is hotter in the summer, but it's preferable to getting
>kicked in the face, imho.
I dont see that at all. Like wearing a cap on your head to keep the
heat off. Love the quiet when you board a plane or on take off in
small planes. Love the quiet in free fall and the complete
unobstructed vision (Oxygn A3). When under canopy, pop open the visor
and nice cool fresh air comes in.
Also saved my bacon when some twit was going to land just beyond me
but instead landed short and smacked me across the head with his sky
surf board just as I turned around. If I was wearing one of those
1920 style football helmet Frap Hats, I would have been hurtin.
Mr. MOM
>but instead landed short and smacked me across the head with his sky
>surf board just as I turned around. If I was wearing one of those
>1920 style football helmet Frap Hats, I would have been hurtin.
BBBWWWAAAAHHHHAHAHAHA...........now thats funny whoever you are. In response to
my post you talked about experience and wisdom. Well........at least you
understand what you need to gain to prevent situations like the one you got
yourself into stated above, so you won't have to worry so much about choice of
head gear once you've got it.
JimBo
>From: kallend jo...@kallend.net
>So - keeping your hands warm is OK, keeping your ears warm is wussy?
Mine froze off many years ago from not wearing warm headgear. :o)
TY
kallend wrote:
Thought we already did that!
My point was... if they just frost up, why wear them?
I don't think I could ever wear one. I get claustrophobic in there!
TY
D16842 wrote:
There are always good uses for duct tape, eh??
john k.
Funny that you and Don, both from sunbelt states, should be telling us
snowbelters what to wear on our heads in winter. Do you teach dolphins
to swim, too?
JimBo
>Funny that you and Don, both from sunbelt states, should be telling us
>snowbelters what to wear on our heads in winter.
Professor for an educated guy you miss a lot of stuff. I have yet to ever
indicate what you should do, or wear.
I'm sure you look positively "Nancy" with all your acoutrements and gadgets.
I do things for me...what I need...not to please those around me or to look
cool.
Carry on.
Ronjumps
I like them
>very much. In fact I see them as a very important tool. A tool for the
>experienced to identify the inept and careless.
So Airspeed and the Knights are inept and careless????
Again, your an idiot. How about landing in trees?
RH
mo ghile meer
(D16842) writes:
>Would you mind explaining this to a friend of mine who in an offsite
>>landing hit the tarmac so hard that the chin-protecting part of Z1
>>broke?
>>
>> Pet
;-> maybe if he had a frap hat or Protek on he cudda seen where he wuz landing
heh heh heh full face can create problems both in FF & landing patterns, like
overgearing in other respects. Course yawl prolly never even look at a windsock
anymore cuz yer so far off with them GPS spots <eg> ;-*
((BUT))
What the hell do I know
I went S/L twice ;o)
D16842
>Course yawl prolly never even look at a windsock
>anymore cuz yer so far off with them GPS spots <eg> ;-*
What is a windsock?
Tom B
Jerry K.
the windsock and politically incorrect full-face which planted you
into the tarmac?
...bsrp
...jlk
David Ferree
>>>Now, since when did skydiving become a contact-sport?
>David Ferree wrote:
>>
>> Shortly after the first baton pass. Next.
freeflyer <free...@freeflyer.no> said:
>Ok, when did it become a
>contact-so-hard-you-will-lose-teeth-in-the-process-sport?
Sorry, don't know the exact date on that, but it was a long time ago.
David
Peter Liemberg
wrote:
>Ok, when did it become a
>contact-so-hard-you-will-lose-teeth-in-the-process-sport?
>:o)
1854.
(Though we dont know if Cockburn lost his teeth when he became the
first parachuting fatality in history...)
Peter Liemberg
>Peter, you forgot to put in the <whine> and </whine> tags in your post.
>
>It goes like this:
>
><whine> Skydiving is going to hell in a handbasket </whine>
>
I thought tags & html were forbidden here. Or at least a sure method
of alienating your potential audience...
;-)
(Especially when its a warm day and they put the full face backwards
on top of their head when they walk back from the pit. Granted, frap
hats DO look goofy also, but...)
LORD OF THE SKY
Ronjumps <ronj...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20020301195449...@mb-mr.news.cs.com...
> Tree once again you prove you are an idiot.
Well Ron, I never claimed to be more.
> So Airspeed and the Knights are inept and careless????
If they can't avoid smacking their teamates in the head during a
dive , yes, they are inept. If part of their strategdy to turn points
quicker is to smack heads with their teammates ,yes, they are careles.
> Again, your an idiot.
Not again, it's a lifelong thing.
> How about landing in trees?
Land on target on every jump nobody calls you "Target guy".
Land in one tree and they'll always call you "Treetop".
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
LORD OF THE SKY
kallend <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
news:3C7F8F7A...@kallend.net...
>
>
> LORD OF THE SKY wrote:
> >
> > kallend <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
> > news:3C7EF8E5...@kallend.net...
> > > Cool! (-28 degrees worth of cool at altitude). Go without gloves,
too.
> > >
>
> Easy to say for someone that lives in Georgia. Talk is cheap, come up
> here next January and show us, Don.
That's *North* Georgia, Professor.
Contrary to popular belief we do get subfreezing temperatures here.
The difference is that after a day or two the temperatures rebound .
Cold weather doesn't keep me from jumping,and I don't wear a full
face helmet.
LORD OF THE SKY
TY <skyd...@net1plus.com> wrote in message
news:3C7F748E...@net1plus.com...
> Just curious Treetop - Were you wearing a helmet when you had your tree
> incident?
Yes. It was my third jump. I was wearing a blue Protec. Amazingly, since I
have quit wearing helmets I've had no more tree problems.Hmmm...
LORD OF THE SKY
Peter Liemberg <pca...@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:3c802945....@news.planet.nl...
>
> (Especially when its a warm day and they put the full face backwards
> on top of their head when they walk back from the pit. Granted, frap
> hats DO look goofy also, but...)
>
Now we're talkin'.
Documented evidence proves that wearing any headwear backwards lowers
IQ by a full 25 points.
Just the facts .
LORD OF THE SKY
john k. <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
news:3C8015DB...@kallend.net...
>
> Funny that you and Don, both from sunbelt states, should be telling us
> snowbelters what to wear on our heads in winter.
You know Professor, I believe this *comfort from the cold* argument is
baseless and not founded on any research or scientific fact.
Now I'm no rocket scientist but I have observer a number of space vehicles
re-enter the atmosphere. It is interesting to me that even in the outer
regions of the atmosphere where the air is not very dense, enough friction
is produced between the space vehicles and the surrounding air to cause the
machines to glow bright red.
I have to believe that at 13,000 feet and below ,where the air is
much more dense, the friction between a skydiver and the air molecules must
also be generating some amount of *comforting* heat.
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
* how's that for proof Ron?
D16842
> I have to believe that at 13,000 feet and below ,where the air is
>much more dense, the friction between a skydiver and the air molecules must
>also be generating some amount of *comforting* heat.
I don't know about at the center of the skydiving world, SDC, but I have jumped
in -30F to -40F ground temperature conditions. I have no idea what the temp was
at 3000m that day and don't care. My double lensed ski goggles froze over about
10 ft out the door, and the vision of the plane turning white through them was
the last thing I really saw till under canopy, where I removed them. I can
absolutely say Don that I noticed no heating effects from the air friction, but
then I "re-entered" at somewhat less than the orbital 17,500 mph. It was a fast
jump run, but not that fast.
Tom B
Peanut4040
>
>JK - Homewood, IL.
giggle- snicker- fart
LORD OF THE SKY
D16842 <d16...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020302135113...@mb-fc.aol.com...
> but I have jumped
> in -30F to -40F ground temperature conditions. I have no idea what the
temp was
> at 3000m that day and don't care.
You don't have a very scientific mind do you Tom?
JimBo
You don't have a very scientific mind do you Tom?
But hes really good at math....ask him :o)
D16842
>> but I have jumped
>> in -30F to -40F ground temperature conditions. I have no idea what the
>temp was
>> at 3000m that day and don't care.
>
> You don't have a very scientific mind do you Tom?
I used to have a good one, but I fear that endless ALF threads and rolling
around the muck of the wreck with the likes of you may have dimmed it a bit. :)
However, my comment was directed to the conditions that day with a front coming
through and southerly uppers from hell itself. The cute little formula of
degrees F loss per thousand feet works some days, and not on others, depending
on conditions. If you ever come out of the peanut fields we can try to show
you.
Tom B
Ronjumps
> Land in one tree and they'll always call you "Treetop".
>
> "Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
OK I am giving him credit for this one.
Good reply.
Ron