Some resorts don't allow smowboards!
Mark Wallace
resorts which don't allow snowboards. They are Keystone and
Aspen in Colorado, Taos in N.M., and Alta in Utah. I'm sure
there are others. Everytime I get the chance I ask why they don't.
Over Christmas I was at Alta and according to the information I
got they will never allow boards. The answer was that the mountain
has several long flat traverses (which is true) and alot of steeps
(which is also true). I got nearly an identical answer from Taos.
From my observations these 4 resorts don't need boarders, not yet
anyway. But I would have really enjoyed shredding at Alta, not
that skiing the mogals wasn't a blast too.
To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
think as soon as they need the money the doors will be wide open.)
Are they restrictive in Europe too?
Mark Wallace, Castle Rock, CO
Just thought I'd ask.
Thomas McCabe Kelly
"To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinion of all net skiers
(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics?"
----
Resorts that don't allow snowbards are "biased sportists"?
Most also don't allow toboggans, sleds, innertubes ... so?
Businesses must create the environment that they feels meets the needs
of the customers they choose to solict business from. They get to pick
their audience/customer base and cater to it. For the same reasons that
some hotels don't allow children, Northwest airlines chose to ban smoking
on domestic flights before the FAA made it mandatory, and you can book
passage on "singles only" cruises... market segmentation... demographics.
Alpine Meadows at Tahoe doesn't allow snowboards, Northstar limits where
they can be used on their mountain...but still gets full price for the
lift ticket.
If you ask one of the marketing people instead of a lift operator or ski
patrol they may tell you that lift-tickets are not where the big profits are
at resorts (not unlike movie theaters). People over the age of 30 are the
bigger spenders...rooms, dinners, bars, and shopping in the "pro" shops...
bringing children for lessons, lunch at the lodge, souvenirs...
..and most of the snowboarders? under 25, budget trips...
so Mark, you are right...when the economics of Snowboarding is proven to
the resorts, it might get more support... for now, whether true or false,
boards are seen as harmful to "normal" skiing conditions, and are not
popular with skiiers... thus Sboarding is economically unsound for the resort
I know several couples (yupp, all over 25) who avoid *any* resort that
allows boards. Resorts do not want that kind of public relations problem
with their economic base...
Tk
PS I don't think many of the resorts will "let you in" for quite awhile.
The risk is not worth the minimal gain yet ...
---------------------------------------
one guy's opinion, more or less.... so?
Andrew Gerber
>To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
>(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
>subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
>eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
>think as soon as they need the money the doors will be wide open.)
>Are they restrictive in Europe too?
>
>Mark Wallace, Castle Rock, CO
>Just thought I'd ask.
As more people snowboard, more areas will allow snowboarders.
To start a flame war: I think snowboarding looks neat. Never tried
it, but I probably will someday. I've been told that once you
get the hang of it, it's easier than skiing.
This year, I've been rather annoyed by some snowboarders,
specifically those (usually young men) who seem to think it's
OK to stop right in the middle of a narrow trail, sprawled out on the
snow. I'm a good enough skiier I can avoid pretty much anything, but
they are setting themselves up for collisions with skiiers.
Other than that; the slopes at the Colorado areas I frequent
(Loveland, A-Basin, Winter Park) have been uncrowded enough that
there's enough room for everyone.
Regards,
--
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------/
/ Andy Gerber / ger...@solbourne.com /
/ Hey Mr. DJ, I thought you said we had a deal! - TMBG /
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Mike Yang
|> Alpine Meadows at Tahoe doesn't allow snowboards, Northstar limits where
|> they can be used on their mountain...but still gets full price for the
|> lift ticket.
Alpine still doesn't allow snowboards. I read in an article a couple
years back that they asked their season pass holders what they felt,
and decided to continue to prohibit sb'ing.
Northstar may have limited where sb'ers could go in the past, but no
longer. I just called and confirmed that there are no restrictions.
Heavenly used to restrict sb'ers to the Nevada side, but that
restriction went away this year.
Sierra Ski Ranch didn't allow snowboarders last year. I don't
know if their policy has changed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Yang Silicon Graphics, Inc.
mi...@sgi.com 415/335-1786
fah...@cc.usu.edu
> This year, I've been rather annoyed by some snowboarders,
> specifically those (usually young men) who seem to think it's
> OK to stop right in the middle of a narrow trail, sprawled out on the
> snow. I'm a good enough skiier I can avoid pretty much anything, but
> they are setting themselves up for collisions with skiiers.
>
> Other than that; the slopes at the Colorado areas I frequent
> (Loveland, A-Basin, Winter Park) have been uncrowded enough that
> there's enough room for everyone.
sit down to unbuckle, blocking everyone else from skiing on up to the chair.
You can't legislate courtesy but with a 2x4 I could try :-).
--
David Hole FAHOLE@USU
Utah State University FAH...@CC.USU.EDU
Logan, UT Just say snow!
rl...@sequent.com
>>To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
>>(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
>>subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
>>eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
>>think as soon as they need the money the doors will be wide open.)
>>Are they restrictive in Europe too?
>>
>>Mark Wallace, Castle Rock, CO
>>Just thought I'd ask.
>
On Mt Hood, Timberline resort seems to cater to snowboarders. Timberline
offers lessons, rents equipment, allows access to the whole mountain,
and sponsors numerous snowboard races and events each season.
This year Timberline has opened a canyon called the
"Bone Zone" where they have removed rocks and trees to create
a long natural half pipe with lots of great hits.
I don't have exact numbers but, it looks like 30 to 40 percent of
the people on the mountain are snowboarders and it is gaining
in popularity each season.
The other resorts on Mt Hood, Mt. Hood Meadows and Ski Bowl, also
welcome snowboarders by offering lessons and sponsoring snowboarding
events.
As far as snowboarders getting in the way of skiiers, I find that on
crowded days there as many unskilled skiiers as there are unskilled
snowboarders. I guess I just accept the fact that I am going to have
to board defensively and watch out for the other guy.
Over the last two seasons I have taught many skiiers to snowboard and
the general consensus is that they find snowboarding more fun than
skiing.
There are some areas that will never allow snowboarding however, as
the sport gains in popularity some that don't allow boarders now will
see the opportunity for increased income.
--
===============================================================================
Richard A. Lary | Learn to | Sequent Computer Systems, Inc
Software Design Engineer | snowboard | Symmetry Systems Software
Voice (503) 578-5224 | this year | 15450 SW Koll Pkwy.
Fax (503) 578-5797 | at Timberline | M/S WIL2-764
rl...@sequent.com | ski school | Beaverton, OR. 97006
===============================================================================
Joel K Ness
>In the Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, Utah area I'm aware of 4
>resorts which don't allow snowboards. They are Keystone and
>Aspen in Colorado, Taos in N.M., and Alta in Utah. I'm sure
>there are others. Everytime I get the chance I ask why they don't.
>Over Christmas I was at Alta and according to the information I
>got they will never allow boards. The answer was that the mountain
>has several long flat traverses (which is true) and alot of steeps
>(which is also true). I got nearly an identical answer from Taos.
>From my observations these 4 resorts don't need boarders, not yet
>anyway. But I would have really enjoyed shredding at Alta, not
>that skiing the mogals wasn't a blast too.
>To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
>(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
>subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
>eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
>think as soon as they need the money the doors will be wide open.)
>Are they restrictive in Europe too?
I wouldn't mind snowboarding myself someday. But at this point, most
of the snowboarders are snot-nosed 15 year olds that have little
regard for the other skiiers. Up in Duluth, Minn. over break I
was very close to breaking a board over the head of a brat who
ran over my ski. Needless to say he was aware of my presence after
this. The boards in general seemed damage the skiing conditions.
They either should have a section of some hill to themselves or
should not be allowed. This goes mainly for the immature ones out
there.
Was also up at Lutsen, Minn. and the boarders are allowed only on
one small group of beginner-type runs. At one instance two youngsters
skiid the 1/2 mile down (a trail with small slope ) to the main mountain
where the more challanging runs are. When they tried to get on the lift,
the operator stopped the lift and told them to WALK. I had to laugh as
these brats (they thought they were so cool ) started cussing and started
walking back.
--
******************************************************************************
Joel K. Ness
Aerospace Engineering and Engineering Mechanics Dept.
2064 Black Engineering
Iowa State University "But captain, I can't change the
Ames, Iowa 50010 laws of physics"--Montgomery Scott
******************************************************************************
Sergei Poliakoff
|> In the Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, Utah area I'm aware of 4
|> resorts which don't allow snowboards. They are Keystone and
|> Aspen in Colorado, Taos in N.M., and Alta in Utah. I'm sure
If I were aware of the Aspen restrictions, I would limit my trip
to this resort, rather then splitting time between Aspen and Vail.
In my future Western trips I'll make sure to book with resorts restricting
snowboards.
|>
|> To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
|> (note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
|> subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
|> eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
|> think as soon as they need the money the doors will be wide open.)
Resorts are not biased, resorts ARE following economic trends. Killington
may loose our two season passes, season-long ski condo
rental, once-every-two years full equipment purchase, clothing,
food, restaurant expenditures,etc., if they don't do something about
the rampant gang of shredders.
On a less heated note, Westerners must realize that amount of terrain
and snow is severely limited in the East. Killington, which is by far the
biggest resort on the East coast has about 700 acres. There are over
hundred trails, but actual geometric area is small by Western and
Alpine standards. For comparison, Vail is about 6000 acres, and
Val Thorens/Meribel/Courchevel complex in France is over 24,000 acres.
I don't think I'd have any problem sharing such space even with
bath-tub-ridin' folks. In fact, although snowboarding and monoskiing
is very popular in Europe, I completely oblivious to the issue when
I ski Alps.
Of course, smaller area doesn't mean that there are fewer people :
if anything, East is more
densely populated the CO or UT ; it gets unbelievably crowded on the slopes
(lift lines are actually not that bad; lift capacities in Eastern resort
are basically the same as inthe West).
Putting safety considerations aside (IMHO, bad skiers
present more danger then snowboarders: I have never seen a snowboarder
going fast and out of control, but a begineer on a Superstar, with legs
far apart, eyes full of horror, in an unsightly "begineer" tuck doing warp
speed is a familiar sight), snow cover simply can not take additional
abuse, and this is the issue.
As much damage as snow scrappers on skis do, it is nothing
compared to a powerful stop on a snowboard : all skimpy 6 " of base
go in one shot. We've got nice bare earh patches in front of moguls
due to this technique. And moguls themselves turn into the ridges that
go along the slopes. God forbid, in the East I have never seen those nice
round precisely spaced hemisperes they show in the movies
but moguls take absolutely fantasmagoric shapes now that learning
snowboarders make them for us, accomplished skiers.
I'll make another concession : I think that good snowboaders are
not damaging any more then average intermediate skiers; they carve nice
round turns, and leave nicely textured snow behind. But majority of
snowboarders that I see here simply slide down the mountain, leaving bare
earth, sheer ice , death and destru ... ooops, behind.
Reiterating , the effects of slope traffic are much more visible in
Easterm conditions ; and snowboarders make by far the most damage to
the snow cover.
Sergei.
Bruce Hickey
>I wouldn't mind snowboarding myself someday. But at this point, most
>of the snowboarders are snot-nosed 15 year olds that have little
>regard for the other skiiers. Up in Duluth, Minn. over break I
>was very close to breaking a board over the head of a brat who
>ran over my ski. Needless to say he was aware of my presence after
>this. The boards in general seemed damage the skiing conditions.
>They either should have a section of some hill to themselves or
>should not be allowed. This goes mainly for the immature ones out
>there.
At Mont Sutton, in the Eastern Townships of Quebec, apparently you must take
lessons and/or a test before they will allow you on the hill. Perhaps this
idea will catch on elsewhere. The last time I was at Sutton, there were no
problems with snowboarders (in fact, I don't really remember seeing any, but
they must have been there.
Suzy Cadieux
--
Bruce Hickey
bhi...@watcgl.waterloo.edu
David Teich
The resort is smaller and less expensive, they were closed last season, and
I haven't been there this season. But two years ago they readily welcomed
snowboarders, and even had a half-pipe built for them.
My opinion of snowboarders is, since they do tend to be younger, more boarders
go on slopes they don't belong on than do skiiers. They push themselves too
hard and end up sprawled in the way or barrelling out of control toward other
skiiers. I don't mind good boarders at all, but I think bad boarders are
more prevalent then bad skiiers (as a percentage).
BTW. A lift partner once pointed out a woman who was supposedly the top
snowboarder in her class in the US. Boy did she look graceful going down
the slopes.
David A. Teich
Pyramid Technology
dte...@mis.pyramid.com
Kelly Shuldberg
>> Up in Duluth, Minn. over break I
>>was very close to breaking a board over the head of a brat who
>>ran over my ski. Needless to say he was aware of my presence after
>>this.
Hmmm! I don't think it has anything to do with boards. Or age, for that
matter. Some grey-haired Texas businessman skied off the #6 lift at Taos,
and with as much room around us as an empty Safeway parking lot, managed to
casually ski right across both of my skis. He didn't even know what he'd
done, or that it might piss me off. A few choice expletives later, he was
properly educated in the matter. And people in lift lines who can't seem
to remember that they're not waiting for a bank teller are always stepping
on the backs of my skis. There are appropriate educational tools for these
occasions, also.
h. kelly shuldberg
hke...@edsr.eds.com
Albuquerque, NM
Will Leavitt
I've been boarding since '86-87, and have had to track the status of
snowboarding at ski areas by necessity. At first, there were only two
types of areas that allowed boarding: small, local "bumps" like
Nashoba Valley welcomed it with open arms (and rentals and lessons)
because without income from condo sales and without much of a
mountain, they needed all the business they could get. And real *ski*
mountains like Stowe, Cannon, Jackson Hole-- the same places popular
with telemarkers-- saw it as one more way to have fun outdoors. If
the dayglow-shredders and granola-teledogs alienated the mascara set,
so what; the mountain was tall enough and steep enough to always draw
capacity crowds.
Middle of the road mountains were scared of alienating their skiers.
who could switch from Okemo to Sugarbush without blinking. They
were also worried about liability-- the theory was that a beginner
boarder would crash into a skier, and the area would be sued for
allowing such a contraption on the slopes. So there was an era of
certification ('86-'88 seasons): some mountains (Gunstock, Stratton?)
allowed boarding if you passed a basic skills test (and paid $20);
you'd get a picture id certifying that you were permitted on certain
lifts. Some mountains had reciprocity, accepting "certification" from
other areas. When the big lawsuits failed to materialize,
certification just faded away.
We're now in a third phase: the skier population is stagnant and
aging, while snowboarding has been growing at 30% each year (according
to SKIING). And the majority of snowboarders are 12-25. So now
"family" areas like Wachusetts, Smugglers Notch, Bolton Valley, etc
are putting in half-pipes, so that when the family chooses a spot for
the yearly vacation, their son Billy doesn't veto an area because he
can't use the new $400 board they just bought him.
The last areas to "integrate" will be the well-heeled resorts, above the
family bracket, but below the "ultimate" class. If they are profitable,
they may never-- there is probably a market for two-ski-only.
Sergei Writes:
> Killington may loose our two season passes, season-long ski condo
> rental, once-every-two years full equipment purchase, clothing, food,
> restaurant expenditures,etc., if they don't do something about the
> rampant gang of shredders.
And beleive it or not, I agree with you. Killington is a madhouse,
and when I ski there, I'm worried about being taken out by a boarder,
too.
--
...............................................................................
this content-free posting has been brought to you by:
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Peter Gregory
>
>Putting safety considerations aside (IMHO, bad skiers
>present more danger then snowboarders: I have never seen a snowboarder
>going fast and out of control, but a begineer on a Superstar, with legs
>far apart, eyes full of horror, in an unsightly "begineer" tuck doing warp
>speed is a familiar sight), snow cover simply can not take additional
>abuse, and this is the issue.
You must not ski in the Northwest much. Where you do see out of control
skiiers (mostly on the bunny slopes). The beginning to intermediate snow
boarders are by definition out of control (that is why it is fun). You
haven't lived until you have been run down by a snow boarder
that can't quite make a turn to slow himself and regain control.
The snow boarders that remain in control are fine, and fun to watch. But,
you have "never seen a snowboarder going fast and out of control"? You just
don't look or something?
Peter - gre...@decwet.enet.dec.com
Klaus B. Biggers
>To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
>(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
>subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
>eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
>think as soon as they need the money the doors will be wide open.)
>Are they restrictive in Europe too?
>
>Mark Wallace, Castle Rock, CO
>Just thought I'd ask.
I know that Park City and Deer Valley do not allow snowboards... And I
like it that way. It is a major factor in determining where I ski. I
prefer not to ski with boarders. I don't think that all the resorts
will ever allow boarding because of the fact that many people will be
willing to pay more to not to have to ski with boarders and like you
said, some of the resorts don't need the money. Don't get me wrong,
boarders have every right to be on the mountains where they are
allowed, and I have every right to give my money to the ones that
don't. As far as I'm concerned, it wouldn't bother me if some resorts
went snowboard only and didn't allow skiers.
I think we've already covered this topic before.... And I don't think a
resolution is clear cut or near at hand.
-klaus kl...@ced.utah.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
Roy Kern
> specifically those (usually young men) who seem to think it's
> OK to stop right in the middle of a narrow trail, sprawled out on the
> snow. I'm a good enough skiier I can avoid pretty much anything, but
> they are setting themselves up for collisions with skiiers.
So give them a nice shower of snow to *clarify* things....
Roy.
Sergei Poliakoff
|> >going fast and out of control, but a begineer on a Superstar, with legs
|> You must not ski in the Northwest much. Where you do see out of control
|> skiiers (mostly on the bunny slopes). The beginning to intermediate snow
|> boarders are by definition out of control (that is why it is fun). You
|> haven't lived until you have been run down by a snow boarder
|> that can't quite make a turn to slow himself and regain control.
|> you have "never seen a snowboarder going fast and out of control"? You just
|> don't look or something?
As I said before, here on the East Coast, the prevalent form of snowboarding
incompetence is bulldozing down the slope. I suppose there were at some
point in the past characters who would zoom not being able to turn, but
these are probably dead by now.
It is extremely convenient to stop the snowboard by turning it
across the fall line, and then sitting on snow behind it
(you create a little avalanche, or, in Eastern case, a mud slide).
In my observation, this is the position snowboraders spend most of
their time in : sitting behind their apparatus and wildly resisting gravity
by scraping as much snow as possible off MY snow-deprived slope,
and this is the reason I don't like you guys.
Note that this technique is not available to skiers, since skis are
parallel , while boards are perpendicular to feet, which makes board's
natural position to be ACROSS the fall line.
As a side note, by now we developed three possibilities out of four:
skis, monoski, snowboard. What we miss is skis with bindings installed
perpendicular to the ski ; I'm sure it is coming ...
Sergei
MAUREEN BURNS
What's a "smowboard"? Is it kind of like a "snowboard"? ;)
MB
George Robbins
> In article <1992Jan8.2...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mwal...@isis.cs.du.edu (Mark Wallace) writes:
>
> >To get to the point. I'm curious as to the opinionof all net skiers
> >(note the ski industry refers to boarding as snowboard skiing) on this
> >subject. What other resorts are biased sportists? Will these areas
> >eventually have to "let us in" due to the economics? (personally I
> I know that Park City and Deer Valley do not allow snowboards... And I
> like it that way. It is a major factor in determining where I ski. I
> prefer not to ski with boarders. I don't think that all the resorts
> will ever allow boarding because of the fact that many people will be
> willing to pay more to not to have to ski with boarders and like you
> said, some of the resorts don't need the money. Don't get me wrong,
> boarders have every right to be on the mountains where they are
> allowed, and I have every right to give my money to the ones that
> don't. As far as I'm concerned, it wouldn't bother me if some resorts
> went snowboard only and didn't allow skiers.
I think you might want to keep in mind that Park City is a special case,
in that there are 3 resorts associated with the town and one of them
does permit snowboarding. As long as the Family can lodge in Park City
with the adults doing Park City or Deer Valley while the teen boarders
can do Park West, there is no pressure on them to allow boarders. I'd
bet that if Park West actually went under, Park City would open segregated
terrain the next season.
> I think we've already covered this topic before.... And I don't think a
> resolution is clear cut or near at hand.
Yep, but there is some benefit to discussing it as long as there is dispute
about the facts - boarding damage, boarder personalities/behavior and the
basis - ecomomic, liability, "rights" for resorts to allow/prohibit boarding.
Personally, I haven't seen any of this dreaded slope damage and see fewer
out of control boarders than skiiers. Most of the beginners are on their
butt or knees, not teetering on two skis. I do wish the Ski Patrol would
be more active in encouraging both boarders and skiiers not to park mid-trail,
but they apparently consider this a piddling crime and never say anything,
so the beginners never learn...
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing: domain: g...@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department phone: 215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
bl...@inland.com
I just got back from skiing in Telluride, and there's a lot of boarding
going on. One of the guys I was with has been skiing for about 20 years
and has pretty much given it up for boarding (this is his second trip with
a board and he was going to go Heli-boarding). Since boarding is safer
than skiing (less knee injuries), I'd guess that the resorts that don't
allow boards are doing it based on age discrimination. There aren't a lot
of old farts on boards yet, and kids don't have enough money to spend like
the geriatric skiiers.
Michael C. Matthews
>
>What's a "smowboard"? Is it kind of like a "snowboard"? ;)
>
Sort of, except in the summer you can use it to trim your lawn.
:-)
--
Mike Matthews, Tether Dude +-------------> matt...@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
"Got the Shuttle on a String" \_ Now accepting NeXTMail via KlugeNet(TM)!
Lockheed-ESC | Did you ever notice that those small NeXT stickers just
Houston, TX | cover up the Apple logo on a Mac's monitor and keyboard?
David Teich
Sender:
Reply-To: dte...@pyrnova.pyramid.com (David Teich)
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Keywords:
>Since boarding is safer than skiing (less knee injuries),
A year or so ago, a study was printed in the San Jose paper. It seems that
someone had studied slope related accidents from the Tahoe resorts in the
previous season. There was no appreciable difference between the amount of
accidents from snowboarding or skiing. The difference was that a higher
percentage of boarding injuries were "serious" as compared to skiing.
If I remember correctly, the main reason claimed for boarder's bigger injuries
was that both feet are fixed to the same board. So two things happen. First,
they can't spread their feet for balance and beginners loose it more often.
Second, since they fight the fall with both legs, where skiiers might only
hurt one knee boarders are more likely to injure both.
William Warburton
|> Are they restrictive in Europe too?
Hi,
I'm not aware of any restrictions on snowboarding in European
ski resorts. I havn't seen any postings from anyone who is, either.
It amazes me that this is an issue (but then, what isn't in the US).
Perhaps because of the size of the resorts I have skied in (either
tiny or huge), I have never been aware of any conflict between
snowboarders and skiers that was connected with the difference in
equipment.
#Anecdote:
I "had a go" at 'boarding a couple of years ago- I got a little
instruction and a board for an afternoon- I enjoyed it but felt that
I would prefer to concentrate on improving my skiing for the moment.
While I was picking my way down an easy run (well it *would* have been
easy for me if I'd been wearing skis !!! :-) I missed a turn & knocked
over a little girl who was experiencing similar problems on her skis.
She promptly burst into tears, summoning her (French) father from a
short distance away, to whom I apologised for my incompetance. He
was very understanding and it did not seem to occur to him that the
"accident" had anything to do with the fact that I was failing to
handle a board rather than "real" skis.
So what? you ask.
Exactly! I reply- so what?
#End anecdote.
The fact that I was an "out of control snowboarder" rather than an
out of control skier seemed irrelevent to both of us- I think both
of us would have been bemused at someone suggesting otherwise.
#Ill informed opinion:
The other accusation leveled at 'boarders is that they carve up
the powder/moguls/pistes, to which I can say only that I have seen no
evidence to support this and that it seems peculiar to suggest that
it would be a problem. In my (perhaps less than humble?) opinion the
idea that the only thing worth skiing on is a untouched powder field/
perfectly prepared piste/perfectly formed mogul field is bizarre in the
extreme. Sure it's nice once in a while, hell it would be nice all the
time (:-), but then this is a real world.
#End ill informed opinion.
It seems to me that there are no grounds for the discrimination
against snowboarders and that the problem (whether you see it as the
restriction on 'boarders or as their presence in "your" area) will
disappear in time.
(expecting flames :-( )
W.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
John Harris
>In article <1992Jan8.2...@solbourne.com>, ger...@solbourne.com (Andrew Gerber) writes:
>>
>So give them a nice shower of snow to *clarify* things....
>
A few years back I came over a blind knoll, in total control, only to find
a boarder sitting on the other side NOT visable from above. It was a spring
day and I had no choice but to "shower" him. Boy did he get mad! When I
tried to explain he shouldn't stop where he's not visable from above, he got
madder! I understand that boarders _have_ to sit to rest etc... but that
doesn't release them from the "skier responsibility code". A code which more
boarders should read and adhere too.
Another topic that hasn't been brought up is AIR TIME. If you watch SOME
boarders you will notice that they are constantly looking for bumps to jump.
I have seen boarders who "jump first and ask questions later", questions like
is the landing safe?! The funnyest thing I ever saw was a SB'er half-piping
on the edge of a beginner run catching air on every turn, one jump to many
found him hitting a tree. A tree he obviously did not even see in the landing
and was plainly visable!
At Ski Bowl, in Oregon, there is a large since at the bottom of the lift which
reads "NO JUMPING". It seems that only applies to Alpine skiers cause jumping
it seems is a way of life for the Boardheads and I see noone questioning it.
John.
Klaus B. Biggers
>Personally, I haven't seen any of this dreaded slope damage and see fewer
>out of control boarders than skiiers. Most of the beginners are on their
>butt or knees, not teetering on two skis. I do wish the Ski Patrol would
>be more active in encouraging both boarders and skiiers not to park mid-trail,
>but they apparently consider this a piddling crime and never say anything,
>so the beginners never learn...
I think that proportionally more boarders go too fast for their ability
than skiers. By numbers, there are probably more out of control skiers,
but only because there are many more skiers.
All in all though, it is the beginners that are out of control, regardless
of the gear they are wearing, so lets just ban beginners. :)
-klaus kl...@ced.utah.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
Don Marselle
As more people snowboard, more areas will allow snowboarders.
>Probably true. If the ski areas start losing money, they will begin
>look at it more seriously. As it is now, some areas such as Alpine
>may disallow it, but there are enough other areas to board in that I
>don't feel that restricted. In Summit County, Colorado, the only area
>which does not allow snowboarding is Keystone. I've skiied Keystone;
>I can live without it on a board.
To start a flame war: I think snowboarding looks neat. Never tried
it, but I probably will someday. I've been told that once you
get the hang of it, it's easier than skiing.
>After the first day or so (which is literally a pain in the butt),
>boarding is pretty easy; much less technical than skiing.
This year, I've been rather annoyed by some snowboarders,
specifically those (usually young men) who seem to think it's
OK to stop right in the middle of a narrow trail, sprawled out on the
snow. I'm a good enough skiier I can avoid pretty much anything, but
they are setting themselves up for collisions with skiiers.
Begin flame...
>Uh huh... Contrast this to the mass of skiers who congregate at the
>lip of every steep incline on every trail. You avoid these skiers too;
>so do I. The difference seems to be that the snowboarders are sitting
>down (have you ever tried standing on an incline on a snowboard for any
>length of time??). As long as they make themselves visible, they present
>no bigger of an obstacle than your average impolite skier.
End flame...
Cheers,
Don Marselle
Mark Wallace
>In article <9JAN1992...@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> psb...@lims02.lerc.n
sa.gov (MAUREEN BURNS) writes:
>>
>>What's a "smowboard"? Is it kind of like a "snowboard"? ;)
>>
>Sort of, except in the summer you can use it to trim your lawn.
>:-)
>--
Come on guys enginers (and boarders two) aren't requred to no
how to spel or typ.
:)
Mark Wallace, Castle Rock, CO
2 feet this week, we woun't be watching the Broncos on sunday!