Question for 3-pinners
Launce Gouw
Finally decided to cross over from fixed-heel to free-heeling this
season and seek some advice from those with a bit more experience in
the matter.
I laid out the $$$ (don't ask, it was a lot) for a good pair of boots
(Scarpas) and am left with very little money to buy skis. That's no
big deal since what I plan to do is just buy some used downhill skis
and mount a pair of Voiles or something on them. Mostly I figure to
do resort skiing this year with the new setup and work on my turns and
technique before hitting the backcountry. By then maybe I'll have
enough money to get a decent pair of tele-skis.
My questions are:
1) Does it make sense to do it this way? Am I compromising future
technique or possibly gaining bad habits by starting out this way?
2) Any suggestions regarding what might constitute a good pair of
first skis for this endeavour? What might be good skis to graduate to
in the future?
3) Currently I'm skiing on 205 cm downhills, fairly aggressively. In
my tele classes I've been renting 195s or so. I`m wondering if
shorter/longer tele skis facilitate learning. (I'm 5'8" [about 170cm]
and weigh 135 lbs [60kg])
4) My knees are not in terrific shape, due to various ancient rugby
and skiing mishaps. Nothing serious enough to warrant any operations
yet (knock on my wooden head), but sometimes stiff for awhile if I
land hard on them incorrectly. Am I putting them in grave future
jeaopardy by switching over to tele-skiing? What shoud I watch out/be
careful for?
5) Any other tips or info would also be greatly appreciated.
advTHANKSance.
| _, launce gouw * internet: lau...@apollo.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah
|(_) medical center * dept of human genetics * help, help i'm being repressed!
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked
John Cooley
>Finally decided to cross over from fixed-heel to free-heeling this
>season and seek some advice from those with a bit more experience in
>the matter.
>
>I laid out the $$$ (don't ask, it was a lot) for a good pair of boots
>(Scarpas) and am left with very little money to buy skis. That's no
>big deal since what I plan to do is just buy some used downhill skis
>and mount a pair of Voiles or something on them. Mostly I figure to
>do resort skiing this year with the new setup and work on my turns and
>technique before hitting the backcountry. By then maybe I'll have
>enough money to get a decent pair of tele-skis.
>My questions are:
>1) Does it make sense to do it this way? Am I compromising future
>technique or possibly gaining bad habits by starting out this way?
Should be OK. Take a telemark lesson. Weight distribution on teles is
much different from alpine technique. You'll never figure it out without
help. I managed to tele pretty well (under mild conditions) in 3 hours or
so with a good instructor. Many people who ski alpine better than I do work
at telemarking for days without getting it right.
>2) Any suggestions regarding what might constitute a good pair of
>first skis for this endeavour? What might be good skis to graduate to
>in the future?
Look for an old pair of Hexcels or Dynastar Verticals. They are both light
and I have seen pins mounted on both. "Norpine" skiing on Verticals is a
common practice in Europe, I understand.
>3) Currently I'm skiing on 205 cm downhills, fairly aggressively. In
>my tele classes I've been renting 195s or so. I`m wondering if
>shorter/longer tele skis facilitate learning. (I'm 5'8" [about 170cm]
>and weigh 135 lbs [60kg])
I'll refrain from commenting on your alpine ski length given your height and
weight, and just suggest that your teles shouldn't be any shorter than your
alpine boards. In my experience, longer teles didn't interfere with learning,
since you already know how to keep them both pointed in the same direction,
and they give you more edge to work with.
>4) My knees are not in terrific shape, due to various ancient rugby
>and skiing mishaps. Nothing serious enough to warrant any operations
>yet (knock on my wooden head), but sometimes stiff for awhile if I
>land hard on them incorrectly. Am I putting them in grave future
>jeaopardy by switching over to tele-skiing? What shoud I watch out/be
>careful for?
Have your knees needed any medical attention at all? Be sure to tell your
instructor about any knee problems. He or she will want to watch your
technique very carefully and prevent you from making potentially costly
mistakes. I have seen people with marginal knees on tele boards, but it must
be done *very* carefully. Telemarking builds huge quads, making them strong
enough to overpower weak knees. Mistakes often cause the knee to crash into
the ski, the other binding, ice on the ground, or other unforgiving objects.
Telemark skis can have release bindings - get some. You *are* taking
considerable risk, and without knowing more, I would suggest that you ski
conservatively and work on developing a flawless technique. A refined alpine
technique, with the weight properly centered over the feet, can be made to
put minimal strain on weak knees. Telemarking involves the transmission of
quite a bit of force through the knee tendons, and doesn't allow you to
transfer the load to your bones.
Summary: I believe it can be done (hell, I work for NSCD at Winter Park -
I *always* believe it can be done. Well, almost, anyway!) but you need to
approach it carefully and correctly. Take a lesson.
>5) Any other tips or info would also be greatly appreciated.
I said it already. Take a lesson. Or three. You need someone who knows what
they're doing (and admittedly, not all instructors know what they're doing) to
help you get your weight distribution right, get your body and leg positions
right, and watch for problems.
It's a little frustrating to start out slow and learn according to someone
else's ideas. You'll fall a lot anyway. But remember, if you screw up in a
major way and mess up your knees, you may have to give up skiing, both alpine
and nordic, entirely. That's a risk you take.
Go for it. Learn. Do it right.
John Cooley
4WD Suburban leaving Fort Collins 6 a.m. Saturday and returning
Sunday evening, most weekends January-March. Riders welcome.
Richard Pimentel
I agree with John, give it a spin but use the Viole release bindings. Also,
there is some middle ground here. Many of the people I backcountry ski
with do NOT telemark. They parallel their telemark equipment. It requires
more balance than telemarking and fairly untracked snow but it sure saves
the knees. After 12 years of telemarking my knees have the "Rice Crispies"
and I am trying to get myself to learn how to parallel. It is hard emotionally
to become a rank beginner again. It is just something about wasting all that
untracked snow...
--Richard
Richard Pimentel
|> >Finally decided to cross over from fixed-heel to free-heeling this
|> >season and seek some advice from those with a bit more experience in
|> >the matter.
|> >
|> >I laid out the $$$ (don't ask, it was a lot) for a good pair of boots
|> >(Scarpas) and am left with very little money to buy skis. That's no
|> >big deal since what I plan to do is just buy some used downhill skis
|> >and mount a pair of Voiles or something on them. Mostly I figure to
|> >do resort skiing this year with the new setup and work on my turns and
|> >technique before hitting the backcountry. By then maybe I'll have
|> >enough money to get a decent pair of tele-skis.
|>
|> >My questions are:
|> >1) Does it make sense to do it this way? Am I compromising future
|> >technique or possibly gaining bad habits by starting out this way?
There will be a transitional period when you move into powder. Things will
happen a lot slower and you not need to be as agressive in counter-rotating
your upper body to keep from over turning.
|>
|> >2) Any suggestions regarding what might constitute a good pair of
|> >first skis for this endeavour? What might be good skis to graduate to
|> >in the future?
|>
|> Look for an old pair of Hexcels or Dynastar Verticals. They are both light
|> and I have seen pins mounted on both. "Norpine" skiing on Verticals is a
|> common practice in Europe, I understand.
|>
I have noticed a gradual migration to "fat boards" especially here in Utah
where the snow is typically deep and low density. Fat boards give a lot
more floatation than traditional tele boards like Atomic OT's or Kazma
Outbacks. The Dynastar Verticals are the hands down favorites of the back
country crowd and are even used by the head of the Avalanche Forecast Center.
I have sold all my pairs of tele boards (except for an old pair of OT's)
and now ski excusively on fat boards. I use a used pair of Evolution Black
Pearl's for most conditions. They are HEAVY but indestructible. For deep
powder days I use a old pair of Miller Soft's. These skis have been
re-incarnated as Mountain Noodles and are wider than any downhill ski you
can buy.
Any pair of light and soft-flexed downhill skiis should work great in the
backcountry.
The downside of telemarking fat boards comes with skiing groomed runs at
resorts. The wider the ski the more leverage the edge has against your
boot. Eventually your boot will flex and release the edge. This usually
happens on steep and/or icy runs. If you want a ski that does it all,
consider the Black Diamond Tele-Savage. It does all types of skiing well
but shines at the resort.
--Richard
Phil Jensen
> happens on steep and/or icy runs. If you want a ski that does it all,
> consider the Black Diamond Tele-Savage. It does all types of skiing well
> but shines at the resort.
>
> --Richard
I've skied the tele-savage for a couple of years now and would agree that
they are the ultimate ski area ski except for two things. 1) They break
extremely easily. I went through three pair last year (but kept coming back
because they ski so well). 2) It looks like they might not be available any
longer. After they left the Chouinard fold, their business footing has not
been good. The later is the major problem...oh well!
-------------
Phil