K2 Foam Core?
William Murphy
It's time for the annual, Which board to buy this year, BS. I thought I
had made up my mind and settled on K2's Eldorado, but I've come to find out
that this POS has a foam core, and I am queasy about that. Anyone have any
knowledge about K2's foam core that might change my mind, or has anyone
ridden a 160 something all mountain board that was any good in next years
product lines.
Thanks
Will M
JMTelfer
No Foam, No Foam.
Yup, don't take these guides as gospel, mistakes are not few.
K2 does not use foam cores in any of their boards.
The Eldos are ruling boards if your riding primarily big and steep and
lottsa deep, or if your a really big guy. Otherwise it's a better second
board if you can afford the quiver, for those "special days".
-j
Tom Plunket
Would I be out of line?
> has anyone ridden a 160 something all mountain board that was any
> good in next years product lines.
I have yet to ride the '95/'96, but the '94/'95 served me well
for over 80 on-hill days without any problems (no delaminations, edges
stayed in, I even t-bolted the hell out of some other ones).
Original Sin, X model = 161cm, Y = 151cm, Z = 141, I think...
The freestyle boards (Twister '45 and '54) are pretty serious
freeriding machines, too, if my summer experience on the '54 relates
to the '45.
_Tom!_
--
to...@teleport.com
Another snowboarding fool, pretending to surf.
Robert Hanson
longer than wood as far as keeping flex. The myths about wood cores
being better than foam cores are just that, myths. The main reason
snowboard companies use wood cores is because they are less expensive,
and their gimmick plays to people who don't know better. They tell you
that wood is better because that's what they use, not because it is.
Snowboarding needs to get out of the dark ages and realize and utilize
the technology that is available.
Lore3370
I thought I
had made up my mind and settled on K2's Eldorado, but I've come to find
out
that this POS has a foam core, and I am queasy about that. Anyone have
any
knowledge about K2's foam core that might change my mind,
-----
I've ridden a K2 Daniel for 2 years (I got it the beginning of last summer
as a demo - long story) and I love it. When it was stolen out of my ski
school locker last winter I bought another one just like it. K2 makes
great boards and as far as I know, they have wood cores.
A good way to check is to look at the base. If the core is in anyway
weak, it will be bumpy where the bindings are screwed on.
later.
emily.
Tom Plunket
> What's wrong with a foam core? It reacts better than wood, and holds
> up longer than wood as far as keeping flex. The myths about wood
> cores being better than foam cores are just that, myths.
Ok, this guy obviously has ties to Morrow (judging by his `in'
with getting a price list).
Please note that Morrow has spent many many dollars on foam core
production equipment, and so they want to sell boards that they make
with it.
Also, note that the number one snowboards manufacturer in the
world uses wood cores, not because they're cheap, but because they are
the most consistent.
The only snowboard that I ever owned that was foam-core went
through a core breakdown early in its life; the base started
developing all of these depressions in it. This convinced me...
slinkster
Robert Hanson <hansonra> wrote:
>What's wrong with a foam core? It reacts better than wood, and holds up
>longer than wood as far as keeping flex. The myths about wood cores
>snowboard companies use wood cores is because they are less expensive,
>and their gimmick plays to people who don't know better. They tell you
>that wood is better because that's what they use, not because it is.
>Snowboarding needs to get out of the dark ages and realize and utilize
>the technology that is available.
I'm sorry, you've got that whole thing backwards. Wood cores are more
durable, keep their flex longer, are more expensive, etc. Trust me, I'm
not just listening to what snowboard companies tell me; it's pretty
obvious from the boards themselves. And besides, last I checked,
vertically-laminated wood cores are newer technology than foam cores.
--Mark
Rick Bosworth-Prod_Eng
> What's wrong with a foam core? It reacts better than wood, and holds up
> longer than wood as far as keeping flex. The myths about wood cores
> being better than foam cores are just that, myths. The main reason
> snowboard companies use wood cores is because they are less expensive,
> and their gimmick plays to people who don't know better. They tell you
> that wood is better because that's what they use, not because it is.
> Snowboarding needs to get out of the dark ages and realize and utilize
> the technology that is available.
>
>
Really? Foam having better memory than wood? That's contrary to the story I
hear (from the snowboard company). So, I'll bite....how do YOU know that
foam has better memory than wood.
I don't mean to joust; it's just that I rarely accept anything without asking
why.
later,
rick
JMTelfer
-j
Mtn nut
much cheaper and doesn't deteriorate (warp) while in stock,waiting to be
used in production.,. Right on in everything else. Foam can be great if
used with other good stuff!! Tim
Drew Eckhardt
They wear out fast.
>It reacts better than wood, and holds up longer than wood as far as
>keeping flex.
I flatened (as in no camber left) a foam core board in one season. One wood
core lasted me three seasons before I had to epoxy a cracked side wall.
Another has been with me the last three seasons and still going strong.
>The main reason snowboard companies use wood cores is because they are
>less expensive
Wood cores are more expensive.
>They tell you that wood is better because that's what they use, not
>because it is.
Wood transmits vibrations more, but doesn't go flat nearly as fast. If
you don't ride sixty days a year like the rest of us do, or mommy buys
you a new board every season, this might not be a problem for you.
--
1970 Toyota Landcruiser FJ40, 350 Chevy, Saginaw power steering, and
four wheel power disc brakes so far. The 400HP upgrade and SM465 swap
are underway :-)
Jermsnap
>Foam eh? I think I'll start a new skateboard company.....
>-j
Boy are we confused....First of all I believe most of the k2's
are foam core...As far as foam being better than wood in any
way...NO...also, you cant tel if a board is foam core by its base
irregularities, almost all board have depressions near the t-nuts....
I have yet to test a K2 that i couldn't destroy in 30 days or
so...which makes it a fine board...They are very generous regarding
warrantees and general customer service..
You sure dont see olympic skiers on foam cores.*laugh*
"just gimme a Summit 200 gun, some Bugs for my eyes, and somthing
to keep my balls from bouncing around, and im cool"
Jermsnap.
penn...@ix.netcom.com
>Foam eh? I think I'll start a new skateboard company.....
>-j
I remember G&S tryed this back in like '85-86 or sometime around
there. I remember Chris Miller tryed to ride one at like the Chicago
contest that year and it was the worst I have ever seen Miller skate.
But who knows maybe it would work?
Bill
Bill - penn...@ix.netcom.com
JMTelfer
Not only are not all the K2's foam cores, NONE of the K2's are foam cores,
not the Eldo's, not the pro's, not any of the price points. I have
watched these boards being put together - all using top-o-line vert. lam
cores - mucho expenso compared to standard foam construction.
To say that the core has little effect on a boards ride, is to say you
haven't done some serious test/comparison riding. The pro's asked keep
saying "no foam...it rides like a dead mule" As for wear, any board can
also fall apart because of other materials and how the entire board is
assembled - different argument. And yes, using some high-tech
construction, an expensive and solid riding foam board could/has be made.
I haven't ridden it though....
-j
SSSSSSNO
is a pretty good skier, only uses foam cores. The FACT is that the cores
plays very little part in how the ski acts. Go to a factory and see how
big the core is, then you will realize how ridiculous this whole core
thing is. If the rest (90%) is not made well the core won't help.
JMTelfer
-j
Crispin Cowan
JMTelfer <jmte...@aol.com> wrote:
>assembled - different argument. And yes, using some high-tech
>construction, an expensive and solid riding foam board could/has be made.
>I haven't ridden it though....
Well, the Rossi Seone rides pretty well. However, there are a few
of caveats:
-Rossi is a technical leader in foam-core snowboards
-their foam cores used to suck at riding, and only last year
became decent
-it remains to be seen whether Rossi's foam cores are durable
-foam cores for snowboards are harder than for skis because the
boards are wider and thinne.
A rumor that I heard a while ago was that snowboard-compatible foam
cores were still under active research, and that it would take a few
years before it became really competative with vert.lam. wood.
However, given the amazing advances in materials science that have been
happening, I would expect foam cores to surpass wood eventually. In my
personal opinion, this has not yet happened: when it does, Burton will
start using foam cores :)
Crispin
-----
Dr. Crispin Cowan, CS post-doc, Synthetix Project
Oregon Graduate Institute | Electronically:
Department of Computer Science | analog: 503-690-1265
PO Box 91000 | digital: cri...@cse.ogi.edu
Portland, OR 97291-1000 | URL: http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~crispin/
What goof decided that the number of days in a week should be a prime number?
Rick Bosworth-Prod_Eng
when the foam technology catches up with vert lam...
I was suprised to see some foam core Burton's advertised in the 95-96 Snowboarder
Buyer's Guide. Burton must have seen *something* they liked. (Not that I'm a
fan of foam.)
Regards,
Rick
Allen Aastrom
>Well, the Rossi Seone rides pretty well. However, there are a few
As does my Morrow Drive! I love the smoothness of the ride. Now since
I've only got one season on it (about 25 days), I might not have all
good things to say about it after this coming season when I should be
getting 50 more days of use on it. So far, it's got all the camber and
flex it had when I bought it. It's a 94/95 model. Anyone else have
any good or bad luck to report on the Drives?
BTW, I don't bang my board around too much. Mostly freeriding, steep
and deep when available. Just started getting the hang of carving and
medium size airs (bigger than hopping on flat ground and smaller than
30+ foot cliff drops ;^) ). I'm curious to see how it holds up as my
riding becomes more aggressive.
- Allen
Nick Thomas
>
>K2 snowboards are all foam. <you don't see olympic skiers on foam> Tomba
>is a pretty good skier, only uses foam cores.
Do you really know this for a fact? The skis Rossignol makes
for its top racers are specially made and very different
from their consumer "race" skis (which are foam core).
The only way to know for sure what is in Tomba's skis is to
cut a pair open.
Nick Thomas
Crispin Cowan
Well, Burton has actually been using foam cores on and off for years,
but only in low-end product. They've also been using cheap crap like
extruded PTEX on their low-end boards. For such a premium company,
they use some remarkably cheap stuff in their low-end product.
On the other hand, they still ride sweetly. I have an M6, because
freecarve is what I like to do. For some annoying reason, Burton
treated it as a low-end product, so it has an extruded base and no
vibration damping. But it still rides very nicely.
I therefore suspect that what makes a Burton ride well is careful
attention to design.
Burton's web page still bites the big one, though. I guess careful
attention to design doesn't extend to marketing :)
slinkster
Rick Bosworth-Prod_Eng <ri...@oakhill.sps.mot.com> wrote:
>As a follow up to Crispin's comment regarding Burton making foam core boards
>when the foam technology catches up with vert lam...
>
>I was suprised to see some foam core Burton's advertised in the 95-96 Snowboarder
>Buyer's Guide. Burton must have seen *something* they liked. (Not that I'm a
>fan of foam.)
The only boards Burton makes with a foam core are the Micro Air series
(or Micro decks or whatever they're calling them this year), ie, boards
intended for kids who are rapidly growing and will outgrow their board in
a season. They obviously do this because people don't want to spend $450
on a board their kid will only use for one season (if that) before
needing a bigger one. And since foam cores are a lot cheaper and
durability isn't as much of an issue...
--Mark
gsw
>In article <40qsob$r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ssss...@aol.com (SSSSSSNO) says:
>>
>>K2 snowboards are all foam. <you don't see olympic skiers on foam> Tomba
>>is a pretty good skier, only uses foam cores.
>
I was under the impression K2 was one of the few to offer a full wood core board.?
Tom Plunket
> 95-96 Snowboarder Buyer's Guide.
Burton has been making foam core boards off and on for years
now... Their first Twin was a foam core, and most of their low-line
boards before that year (must have been '92/'93?) were foam cores as
well.