Elbow pain from poling
Larry
I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I
thought I’d check again for ideas…
I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to
poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises.
And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing
(skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years
back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the
pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend
(for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem
to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside
of the joint in both elbows.
As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like
surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t
do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe
some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms
but addresses the problem itself.
Thanks!
Mic
Hi Larry,
I've same issue - only doublepoling on rollerskis - not on snow. It's
o.k. if I rollerski only 1x or 2x a week.
I was going to try this year special pole tip with suspension; made by
Exel; haven't been able to get hold of it yet.
Cheers,
Mic
Johnny Twelve-Point presented by JFT
wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I
>thought I�d check again for ideas�
[snip]
>
>As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn�t go for anything radical like
>surgery at this point. I�d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don�t
>do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe
>some topical stuff that hopefully doesn�t just relieve the symptoms
>but addresses the problem itself.
You should also consider changing the location of your elbows when you
pole to see if that helps - trying them closer to your body, or stuck
out more to the side. The latter is important to me in avoding elbow
pain.
ge...@none.net
we're each constructed a little differently and even good technique can
sometimes lead to injury or exacerbate an already-existing one,
especially on rollerskis. In my case, poor skate technique, in
particular banging poles on pavement the first time for well over 2 hrs,
injured my rotator cuffs forever.
Nonetheless, it's worth asking three technique questions: 1) at about
what angle are your elbow joints when planting the poles? 2) at what
angle are your elbows pointing relative to straight down? 3) How much
of a role are your arms playing in double poling relative to your
torso?
The best (if not correct), answers should be
1) bent at ~90 degrees, ranging from slightly less to more depending on
the terrain/speed and individual characteristics
2) elbows pointing out 45 degrees or more, with relaxed shoulders (JFT
is correct that straight down will limit pressure on the elbows; the
downside is loss of upper body power that opening the elbows
facilitates)
3) in current DP technique arms play a very limited role, mainly at
the end of the stroke; ~80-85% of poling power should come at the
beginning from abs and shoulders/lats, laterthen moving down through
quads to the ankles and feet (knees over ankles)
Whether or not technique is at issue, I would (and do) head to a good
sports PT right off and, if necessary, an orthopod (preferably a
skier). A cortisone shot can help jump-start rehab. I'd also strongly
suggest that until it's diagnosed and/or therapy is well underway,
to stop poling entirely. It's a good chance to practice no-pole
skating.
Gene
On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Jan Gerrit Klok
Sorry to hear of your discomfort.
On my last skiing trip, early this year, I felt on my pole early on,
and that elbow was pretty much out of contention for the next couple of
days. It sukks, so I feel for you. For me, pushups would not have been
an option, the pain was general rather than specific, no big riddle
there.
The specific conditions for your pain immediately make me think about
pole length and geometry. Many things can be done wrong with poles in
terms of geometry, and it seems most things ARE done wrong. Which
person has wrists to perfectly align with a straight pole anyway?
COmpare to walking sticks, those ancient things are actually made to be
ergonomically correct. Much different hand/wrist position.
I am just recovering from painful ankles myself, turns out I got them
from flat feet. Insoles and motion control shoes are just getting me
back on track, feeling like less of an old man. So, I'm inclined to
guess that the way your wrists are now forced, could load your elbows
out of whack. Under stain (and what strains more than an elbow
poling?), I can see how this would end up hurting.
There are not many options out there to try. Maybe some ergo style
grips. There are those carbon add-on pole shafts that totally alter and
extend the poles, seemingly popular. Did you ever try borrowing/renting
poles in the next length up/down? Once something is wrong in sports
fitting, it can be a bit of a riddle to find out.
I wouldn't go under the knife just yet, until you've tried to find a
more comfortable condition for that elbow.
Good luck! Do get back to tells us what ended up being the bugger?
J
--
Jan Gerrit Klok
Larry
bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up
for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a
way to test that.
ge...@none.net
talking skate or classic here, or both?
Gene
Jan Gerrit Klok
dimensions. If you are a handy man, you might be able to bend a steel
rod in some shaped to try and find a sweet spot.
When I held the Force 10 poles, the immediately felt better for me.
Grip pointing inwards. It's a one-part molded carbon shape, so they
just made it the way that makes sense for them.
Nothing about the human body is 90� or 180� any direction, or moves
circular. Sporting goods however DO follow such geometry. Cheaper to
make!
--
Jan Gerrit Klok
runcyclexcski
If you had an important race coming up I would recommend cortizone
shots. For long-term changes - keeping your elbows outside, planting
the poles, rather than hammering, relying on the ab muscles rather
than the triceps (see Gene's response)
jeff potter
[ ]
> I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to
> of the joint in both elbows.
Lots of good tips here.
Here's a couple more:
*consider using flexy, absorbent poles
(I got pain once when rollerskiing regularly with carbon poles
-- switched to alum and pain went away)
(and do all those tips about techinque, planting -- and use
SHARP SHARP tips to make planting easy!)
*consider using differently shaped grips
(this looked to be mentioned already, from my glance over the
replies, but consider going even kind of extreme -- install canoe
paddle grips even or find a pair of those old canoe-grips that Swix
(?) made in the 80's)
--JP
outyourbackdoor.com
allskixc.com
bikeboatski.com
diysnowsport.com
xcskireview.com
indieoutdoors.com
upnorthmag.com
(URLs 'R' Us!)
Hugh P
under control now. I never took expert advice, but the things that I
have done, which I think helped me, were:
Remove the immediate cause. For me, that was trying to be tough about
not using more grip wax for my first few times on snow one winter. The
resulting slips caused me to catch my weight on my poles, giving me
sore elbows.
Avoid aggravating it: be aware of how long I can go before it gets
sore, and stop short of that.
Strength training: dips and press-ups, and double-poling - always
stopping short of making it sore.
Rest and ice if it does get sore (I wish I had done that at the very
start of it).
I did not deliberately make any changes to technique, and attribute
suffering less mainly to the more deliberate strength training that I
have done since the problem started. Changing technique or your gear
would probably also make sense. I used to get a very sore back after
every mass-start race, until a coach suggested a change to my double-
pole technique; that was so long ago that I don't remember what the
change was, but I am also careful to do plenty of strengthening
exercises for my back now.
Hugh
Jon
through "NordicSkater." They helped me a lot, even though at first
the difference they makes seems subtle (it's a very strong spring).
They're designed for some special Excel pole system, but you can use
plastic tubing to make them fit on a standard pole..
Jon
ge...@none.net
spreading out the feeling of the plant from a single initial moment,
to something bouncy or double actioned?
Gene
Jon
>spreading out the feeling of the plant from a single initial moment,
>to something bouncy or double actioned?
Definitely takes away the initial, sharp, shock--that's the main
benefit. It's not bouncy, feels more like you're poling into a
rubberized surface. As I said, it's a subtle difference in feeling,
but definitely there.
(Another analogy is going from tightly strung synthetic tennis strings
to natural gut. Just a little bit more cushiony for your joints.)
NB: As a caveat, I realize I've just used them for classical skiing.
But the improvement is there in double poling, so I'd imagine you'd
get the same benefits in skating.
jteg...@msn.com
that much any more. Two times so far this fall... But I used to
rollerski all summer long about four times per week with one rollerski
each week of 50 kilometers. I always used aluminum poles. The old Swix
Alulites worked great. They flexed enough and I never had elbow
problems.
Jay
ge...@none.net
For me, the trade off with Alulites was blisters on my hands from the
stopping their extra weight on the return.
Gene