nordic vs alpine wax
Roy Nilsen 5-5699
Does anybody know if there is a real difference between nordic and
alpine wax? Specifically, I got a package of Toko Dibloc Red. It was
not advertised as either nordic or alpine. When I received the wax it
was marked only as Toko Dibloc. On the back of the box was an alpine
wax chart, ie it was marked for down hill, super G etc.
Does anybody know if this is exactly the same wax as I bought last year
marked Dibloc Red Nordic???
--
Roy Nilsen
===============================================================
ON WISCONSIN! Go Badgers!
Richard R. Liu
Roy Nilsen 5-5699 <arn...@ct.med.ge.com> wrote:
>Does anybody know if there is a real difference between nordic and
>alpine wax? Specifically, I got a package of Toko Dibloc Red. It was
>not advertised as either nordic or alpine. When I received the wax it
>was marked only as Toko Dibloc. On the back of the box was an alpine
>wax chart, ie it was marked for down hill, super G etc.
>
>Does anybody know if this is exactly the same wax as I bought last year
>marked Dibloc Red Nordic???
Once upon a (long) time, there was a difference between nordic and
alpine wax. Wax manufacturers designed nordic wax to last; alpine
wax, to increase speed. I doubt that this premise still holds true,
if, indeed, it ever did. Skaters want duration and speed, and only
alpine racers can afford to rewax after each run.
Swix, I believe, no longer differentiates between nordic and alpine
wax. I'm not sure about Toko. You could try giving them a call:
Toko AG
Industriestr. 4
CH-9450 Altstätten
Switzerland
Tel. + 41 71 757-7373
Ask to speak to Bruno Landolt, head of Racing Service, or to Hans
Zihlmann, head of Nordic Racing Service.
RalphCT
Michael Edelman
Richard R. Liu wrote:
>
> Roy Nilsen 5-5699 <arn...@ct.med.ge.com> wrote:
>
> >Does anybody know if there is a real difference between nordic and
> >alpine wax? Specifically, I got a package of Toko Dibloc Red. It was
> >not advertised as either nordic or alpine.
[snip]
>
> Once upon a (long) time, there was a difference between nordic and
> alpine wax. Wax manufacturers designed nordic wax to last; alpine
> wax, to increase speed. I doubt that this premise still holds true,
If you're talking about glide wax, there's little if any difference; but
some of us still use wax for grip sometimes ;-)
--mike
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Edelman ede...@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/~edelman
Scott Smay
In article <348e3f30...@news.ethz.ch>
liu.r...@ch.swissbank.com (Richard R. Liu) writes:
> Once upon a (long) time, there was a difference between nordic and
> alpine wax. Wax manufacturers designed nordic wax to last; alpine
> wax, to increase speed. I doubt that this premise still holds true,
> if, indeed, it ever did. Skaters want duration and speed, and only
> alpine racers can afford to rewax after each run.
>
> Swix, I believe, no longer differentiates between nordic and alpine
> wax. I'm not sure about Toko. You could try giving them a call:
A couple of years ago, I talked to the Toko rep (Wintersteiger, I
think) and they told me the alpine and nordic formulations were *very*
different, but I didn't get any details. Please post any data you get.
scott smay
/Everything I know is wrong./
/Repliers must remove "spam" from email address/
Peter Rasberry/Coosje Weber
>Does anybody know if this is exactly the same wax as I bought last year
>marked Dibloc Red Nordic???
>Roy Nilsen
In some wax lines they may be the same, but Toko's waxes are different for
Alpine and Nordic (with the exception of Streamline which is the same as
WetJet). If the packaging you have is red - it's alpine. If the packaging
is blue - it's nordic. Nordic waxes are formulated for durability (among
other things), alpine waxes for acceleration in turns and and other
characteristics. There is probably some crossover value, but I'd stick
with the right wax for the proper discipline. Also, Dibloc has been known
(and labelled) as Dibloc "Thermo" for a couple of years now. If your
package doesn't say that, it's old stock.
Peter Rasberry
Toko Tech Rep
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
webe...@golden.net
Christian Hollmann
Roy Nilsen 5-5699 <arn...@ct.med.ge.com> wrote in article
<348D5B...@ct.med.ge.com>...
> Does anybody know if there is a real difference between nordic and
> alpine wax? Specifically, I got a package of Toko Dibloc Red. It was
> not advertised as either nordic or alpine. When I received the wax it
> was marked only as Toko Dibloc. On the back of the box was an alpine
> wax chart, ie it was marked for down hill, super G etc.
>
> Does anybody know if this is exactly the same wax as I bought last year
> marked Dibloc Red Nordic???
The general premise is that wax marked for the same temperature will be
slightly softer for DH than for XC skis. The idea is that the greater
speeds encountered in Alpine will raise the temperature under the base
slightly, requiring a softer wax. This does not occur to the same extent
in XC skis, so wax is formulated slightly harder for the same temperature
to increase durability. The difference is very slight, and I have used the
Alpine version in a pinch with virtually the same success as the XC
version. In Toko a red-accented package denotes Alpine, whereas a blue
stripe means XC. If the block is larger than you would normally encounter,
you have lucked out and laid your hands on the "team wax" which has about
twice the normal fluorocarbon content (and is not generally available at
the retailer)
Hope this helps
Christian
Michael Daly
Scott Smay wrote:
>
> In article <348e3f30...@news.ethz.ch>
> liu.r...@ch.swissbank.com (Richard R. Liu) writes:
>
> > Once upon a (long) time, there was a difference between nordic and
> > alpine wax. Wax manufacturers designed nordic wax to last; alpine
> > wax, to increase speed. I doubt that this premise still holds true,
> > if, indeed, it ever did. Skaters want duration and speed, and only
> > alpine racers can afford to rewax after each run.
> >
> > Swix, I believe, no longer differentiates between nordic and alpine
> > wax. I'm not sure about Toko. You could try giving them a call:
>
> A couple of years ago, I talked to the Toko rep (Wintersteiger, I
> think) and they told me the alpine and nordic formulations were *very*
> different, but I didn't get any details. Please post any data you get.
>
and nordic waxes. One critical characteristic is "breaking
speed". This is the velocity at which the friction coefficient
changes from relatively high to relatively low. On alpine
skis, you want a high breaking speed, since the skis are used
at high speed. Nordic requires a low breaking speed. I tried
some older alpine waxes on nordic skis - they suck. I don't
know whether these characteristics are still significant for
modern wax formulations, but I'd stick with nordic waxes until
I have a good reason to change.
Mike
levi
At a recent wax clinic, the local SWIX rep told us that their waxes are the
same for Nordic and Alpine -- the recommended wax for a given condition is
what varies. I'll ask the Toko guys when I see them (if Peter Raspberry
doesn't chime in on this thread)...
- Levi
Peter Rasberry/Coosje Weber
At 4:55 AM -0500 12/12/97, levi wrote:
>At a recent wax clinic, the local SWIX rep told us that their waxes are the
>same for Nordic and Alpine -- the recommended wax for a given condition is
>what varies. I'll ask the Toko guys when I see them (if Peter Raspberry
>doesn't chime in on this thread)...
Already have - and Toko's ARE different for Alpine and Nordic...
Peter
Peter Rasberry/Coosje Weber
If the block is larger than you would normally encounter,
>you have lucked out and laid your hands on the "team wax" which has about
>twice the normal fluorocarbon content (and is not generally available at
>the retailer)
>
>Hope this helps
> Christian
Christian,
Would like to clarify that the larger block of wax you refer to, if it is
Toko's, is a "Race Service" package and is indeed about twice the mass, but
is NOT different in any other way (i.e. fluoro content)