temporary wax for waxless skis when all stores are closed?

Meg

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Dec 24, 2010, 7:15:40 PM12/24/10

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Hi. I am new to cross country skiing - bought them last year at the
end of the season, and we have occasional snow. They are Alpine
Control waxless skis. I did not have the trouble with the snow
sticking to the skis on the first snow, but it was much colder. Our
second snow today is a wetter snow and it's very difficult to move
without getting snowballs on the bottom of the skis.

OK, I read I should put a liquid glide wax on the skis, however it's
Christmas eve, all stores are closed - stores here don't sell cross
country equipment anyway so I will most likely have to order mail
order - though I may try REI - on Monday they are open, they sell
something called sxix universal temperature wax that appears to be
available from checking a product availability search. Another store
called the alpine shop here which sells things for downhill skiing has
something called home grown soy stick wax.

Do you know if either of these two will work? Is there anything I
might be able to get and use in the meantime that won't harm the skis
that might be obtainable from a walgreens, which is most likely the
only place open on Christmas. I am happy to mail order, but chances
are by the time it gets here the snow will be melted, and my holidays
where I have time to ski over with. I'm new at this, just doing it in
the park across the street - fairly flat ground but it's hard when one
ski sticks to the ground and I can't move. I thought I saw something
also about making your own wax using candles, online.

I don't check the email address on this acct - this is a throwaway
address to avoid spam - so replies here are best. Thanks!
Meg

ge...@none.net

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Dec 24, 2010, 10:38:13 PM12/24/10

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On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 16:15:40 -0800 (PST)
Meg <megs...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Hi. I am new to cross country skiing - bought them last year at the
> end of the season, and we have occasional snow. They are Alpine
> Control waxless skis. I did not have the trouble with the snow
> sticking to the skis on the first snow, but it was much colder. Our
> second snow today is a wetter snow and it's very difficult to move
> without getting snowballs on the bottom of the skis.

Silicon spray or something similar lightly on the kick zone works
fine. Heck, if I was really desperate, maybe rub in a little bar soap
- or a very very light touch of cooking oil? If I understand the
problem correctly, you just need to coat the waxless pattern area (kick
zone) to keep the snow from sticking. The rest of the ski, which I
hope is glide waxed, shouldn't be a problem.

Gene

gr

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Dec 24, 2010, 11:44:31 PM12/24/10

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I have used car wax (Turtle Wax) with good results (if nothing better
was available). The fishscale area needs something to stop sicking and
iceing. SWIX F4 works well and comes in paste and liquid forms which
can be applied to fishscales.
gr

Melinda Shore

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Dec 25, 2010, 12:52:42 AM12/25/10

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In article <b0751777-78e0-47bc...@z9g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,

Meg <megs...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Our
>second snow today is a wetter snow and it's very difficult to move
>without getting snowballs on the bottom of the skis.

Out of curiosity, are you keeping your skis indoors, or in a
heated car while driving to where you ski? If you are,
skiing on them before they've cooled off can cause clumping.
In that case the easiest remedy is to leave them outside, or
use a ski rack on your car.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

ge...@none.net

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Dec 25, 2010, 2:28:01 AM12/25/10

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On 25 Dec 2010 00:52:42 -0500
sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:

> In article
> <b0751777-78e0-47bc...@z9g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
> Meg <megs...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >Our
> >second snow today is a wetter snow and it's very difficult to move
> >without getting snowballs on the bottom of the skis.
>
> Out of curiosity, are you keeping your skis indoors, or in a
> heated car while driving to where you ski? If you are,
> skiing on them before they've cooled off can cause clumping.
> In that case the easiest remedy is to leave them outside, or
> use a ski rack on your car.

Leaving skis outside for a few minutes might help (emphasis on
"might"), because wet snow at the right temp range will attach no
matter what. To clarify Melinda's suggestion about a car rack, it
should be an *enclosed* rack. Exposure to the elements on a car roof
is an easy way to screw up ski bases and bindings. Easiest remedy,
though, is to "grease" your kick zone.

Gene

Meg

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Dec 25, 2010, 9:08:59 AM12/25/10

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Thanks so much for all the replies. I've been keeping the skis in my
unheated 3 season porch.

I'm new at this - the skis have no wax on them glide or any type -
they are waxless so I didn't think they needed any at first - I now
read that is not true. The snow is mostly sticking to the fishtail
area. I need to do obviously some reading up on maintenance and order
some of the right wax.

I did get a video on the basics of how to ski - I know not ideal but
since I'm not really in an area where there are teachers, it was
better then nothing to just get going, but it didn't really go over
maintenance. The concept seems fairly similar to figure skating - how
you transfer your weight from side to side and glide, even though the
motion is different. It seems to be going pretty well except for the
snow sticking yesterday.

We were right around 32 degrees. I've used them about 3 times before
this with no trouble, but it was more in the teens and a powdery snow.

Meg

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Dec 25, 2010, 9:40:04 AM12/25/10

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So I guess I have 2 problems. I need glide wax, and also the snow is
sticking to the kick zone.

Can the same product be used to solve both problems.

The stores ARE open tomorrow - I was wrong when I said Monday.
Locally, it appears these are my two options other than makeshift
solutions. Anything I'm likely to find locally are going to be either
for snowboards or downhill skis as you can't buy cross country skis
here.

This universal temperature wax by swix is at rei.

http://www.rei.com/product/777576

Or this soy based wax at the other store that sells ski supplies.

http://www.alpineshop.com/products2.cfm/ID/40129/name/Home-Grown-Soy-Stick-Wax/brand/DAKINE

Am I better off just waiting until tomorrow and getting one of these
to use on the whole ski and ordering something online more
specifically for cross country skis for the future?

Edgar

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Dec 25, 2010, 12:23:56 PM12/25/10

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On Dec 25, 6:40 am, Meg <megspa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> So I guess I have 2 problems. I need glide wax, and also the snow is
> sticking to the kick zone.
>
> Can the same product be used to solve both problems.
>
> The stores ARE open tomorrow - I was wrong when I said Monday.
> Locally, it appears these are my two options other than makeshift
> solutions. Anything I'm likely to find locally are going to be either
> for snowboards or downhill skis as you can't buy cross country skis
> here.
>
> This universal temperature wax by swix is at rei.
>
> http://www.rei.com/product/777576
>
> Or this soy based wax at the other store that sells ski supplies.
>

> http://www.alpineshop.com/products2.cfm/ID/40129/name/Home-Grown-Soy-...

>
> Am I better off just waiting until tomorrow and getting one of these
> to use on the whole ski and ordering something online more
> specifically for cross country skis for the future?

Hi,
The "no-wax" skis as you have discovered mean "no grip (kick) wax"
skis. At +/- 0C and high humidity snow conditions, you need to make
the ski bases, especially the grip pattern area more water repellent.
As someone mentioned, silicone spay can be a short term quick fix.
The longer lasting fix to icing is to fill the "pores" (not really
pores, but its a complicated story) so that moisture does not stick to
the ski bases.

Various "wax" compounds such as the Swix F4 liquid or paste previously
mentioned, or the Toko express wax liquid or past products increase
the water resistance of the base. To make these products longer
lasting, the first step is to apply them to dry skis so that the
penetrate the "pores". Adding some heat (inside and overnight, and/or
using a hair drier with warm air) helps the wax compound penetrate.

The reason that liquid or paste products work best on "no-wax" ski
grip zones is that a solid iron-in wax is hard to scrape from the
patterned area of the ski. Filling in the mechanical ridges reduces
its ability to interlock with the snow. And you wax works by
"penetrating" into the base, not covering the base, That's why we
scrape and brush the glide zones to remove the surface wax.

Summary. Use a liquid or paste wax, applied to a dry ski with time to
let it absorb into the base. Buff and polish to remove the material
from the surface and especially from the pattern. And yes, hot wax
the tip and tail glide zones. The Universal hot wax will work for
your tip and tail sections.

Edgar

ge...@none.net

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Dec 25, 2010, 1:06:48 PM12/25/10

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I'd never thought about it, but I can imagine a dry unwaxed base
attracting snow.

If the skis haven't been hot glide waxed before (tips and tails), I'd
suggest taking them to one of those ski shops to do it. Basic alpine
waxing is similar enough and probably one of the techs also nordic
skis. Let them know this is the skis' first waxing and ask if you can
watch. Also tell them you will be skiing at around 32F and that the
base could use some structure to help with the wetness/suction, if they
have a tool for it (structure = pattern put in the ski to allow
melting/wet snow to drain off the base, rather than cause a suction
effect; extra structure beyond what a brushing creates is especially
helpful in warmer, wetter conditions).

I don't know about (or trust) Dakine soy-based ski wax, but if it
works... Otherwise, the quick glides people have been suggesting,
especially the flourinated ones for wetter conditions, such as Swix F4
and Toko's equivalent, will get you out the door (alpine shows should
have F4). However, without a hot wax they are just a thin cover a
totally dry base. Gliding is a big part of the fun of skiing, so having
a proper wax job is a big deal; the results will put a smile on your
face. At minimum, depending on how much you ski and how abrasive the
snow conditions are, at least one or two hot waxes a season are called
for. Some of us do it much more frequently.

At the REI site, go back to the ski waxes link and you'll see F4. The
Swix universal wax is for hot waxing, which it doesn't sound like you
are set up to use yet (dedicated iron, scraper, brushes, place to wax
where your ski is clamped).

A good site with lots of information on all of this and more for a
beginning recreational skier is
http://www.xcskiworld.com/recreation.html. For dedicated x-c shops, do
a google search for "cross country ski shops" and maybe add your state
or region for something closest to you.

Gene

runcyc...@yahoo.com

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Dec 25, 2010, 8:07:00 PM12/25/10

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Candlewax has always worked well for me back in the early 80s.

Meg

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Dec 25, 2010, 10:39:55 PM12/25/10

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Thanks everyone for all the replies. I'll check out all these
suggestions. I didn't end up even trying to ski today - way to busy
since I was cooking Christmas Dinner anyhow.

I saw that the one place that sells downhill ski stuff here is having
a free clinic early in Jan on Ski maintenance including waxing them -
I think I'll try to attend that - even though it's downhill skis
probably it'll probably still be relevant.

Meg

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Dec 25, 2010, 10:46:44 PM12/25/10

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Should have added this before - this sounds like just what I need.
(Clinic description)

Simply put, waxing your skis or your board helps you ride the snow
faster. And sharpening your edges helps you keep control on less than
perfect conditions. Now that you know why this is important, come
learn how. An Alpine Shop Ski Shop technician will cover the basics of
keeping your gear tuned for the best performance in-between
professional maintenance.

ge...@none.net

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Dec 26, 2010, 1:15:24 AM12/26/10

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On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 19:46:44 -0800 (PST)
Meg <megs...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Should have added this before - this sounds like just what I need.
> (Clinic description)
>
> Simply put, waxing your skis or your board helps you ride the snow
> faster. And sharpening your edges helps you keep control on less than
> perfect conditions. Now that you know why this is important, come
> learn how. An Alpine Shop Ski Shop technician will cover the basics of
> keeping your gear tuned for the best performance in-between
> professional maintenance.

The waxing part is mostly in common, but edge sharpening is not;
they're talking about metal edges. Btw, your original post says
Alpine Control waxless skis. I think you meant Alpina:
http://www.alpinasports.com/index.php/nordic-touring/item/control-nis--control.
Did you buy them from REI?

Where do you live? We might have some ideas who you could contact.

Gene

Meg

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Dec 26, 2010, 12:11:17 PM12/26/10

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Btw, your original post says

> Alpine Control waxless skis. I think you meant Alpina:http://www.alpinasports.com/index.php/nordic-touring/item/control-nis....

> Did you buy them from REI?
>
> Where do you live? We might have some ideas who you could contact.
>
> Gene

Yes you are correct, Alpina control - I misspelled the name. I bought
them at backcountry.com. I'm in St. Louis. I bought them during the
last snow of the season last year and by the time I got them snow was
all gone, so am finally using them. We get about 3-4 snows or so a
season at most and they are usually gone pretty quick so you can't
really buy the skis around here. If I'd thought to do some more
reading I could have taken the skis up to Door County Wisconsin where
I go every summer to get the wax put on. I figured I could watch how
they do the heated waxing anyhow on the downhill skis and it would be
sort of similar - at least the technique.

I think I'd have to go up to Chicago to find an actual groomed ski
trail or at least partway there.

Meg

ge...@none.net

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Dec 26, 2010, 2:55:20 PM12/26/10

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On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 09:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Meg <megs...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Btw, your original post says
> > Alpine Control waxless skis. I think you meant
> > Alpina:http://www.alpinasports.com/index.php/nordic-touring/item/control-nis....
> > Did you buy them from REI?
> >
> > Where do you live? We might have some ideas who you could contact.
> >
> > Gene
>

> I think I'd have to go up to Chicago to find an actual groomed ski
> trail or at least partway there.

Did you post here last season? Someone from St. Louis did and we
provided some ideas, e.g., http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xcclmw.html.

Gene

Meg

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Dec 26, 2010, 3:18:45 PM12/26/10

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Yes I did post last season, and everyone was very helpful in giving
advice to the skis and bindings I bought. I am back from the store
and did manage to find the Swix F4, luckily.

gr

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Dec 26, 2010, 5:31:09 PM12/26/10

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The downhill wax you mentioned looked like it was hard wax. This would
not work at all in your fishscales. You need a liquid or a paste for
them. Swix F4 is darn near universal and is quite common in the Alpine
and snowboard world also.

For more info on waxing check out Tognar Toolworks at http://tognar.com/
gr

Meg

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Dec 26, 2010, 5:36:10 PM12/26/10

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Well I must say that skiing with wax on the skis is actually sort of
fun.

A few trouble spots where I skied through some footprints of slush and
had to take off the skis and break off slush before continuing, but it
did seem much easier and I felt like skiing much longer this time.

Thanks so much.

Meg

Darrell Sparks

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Jan 8, 2022, 2:24:24 PM1/8/22

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Sliicone Spray.

Brown Stone

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Pablo Wilson

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Feb 17, 2024, 6:31:23 PMFeb 17

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