lower back pain from classic skiing
Chris Pella
for any length of time. It is muscular and only occurs from classic skiing -
not from any other activity, and I run, play tennis and do sprint kayaking.
I've been doing core strength exercises and flexibility work religiously for
quite a while so I'm not sure how much more I can do in that area. It is
very frustrating because classic is what I like to do best, and it's like I
have to ski with a governor during loppets.
Does anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong biomechanically?
The only thing I can think of is that I'm hyperextending during diagonal
striding - double-poling doesn't cause problems.
Chris Pella
Ottawa, On
Ralph
Many, without thinking, ski with a stiff or arched back where the small
of the back is forced forward. Try to relax and ski with a rounded back.
Do stretching exercises before skiing, start slowly to warm up. Learn
relaxation drills for arms, shoulders and back. Might as well also focus
on relaxation for the hips and legs too. Hope this helps.
Ralph Thornton
In article <1043591267.707018@sj-nntpcache-3>,
"Chris Pella" <cpe...@cisco.com> wrote:
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Chris Pella
arching my back as a consequence of trying to get my hips farther forward
over the glide ski. I took some lessons to improve my technique and I
believe I was overcompensating to get rid of the "late kick" syndrome. It's
the law of unintended consequences: trying to correct one problem introduces
another "bug".
"Ralph" <ra...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:ralph-5FACE6....@corp.newsfeeds.com...
Scott Elliot
She was a former national calibre skier so it wasn't a question of poor
technique. It was diagnosed as a mechanical problem with her bone
structure/alignment compounded by the extremely fast and powerful muscle
flexes required to do a competitive diagonal stride.
It was interesting that she was able to skate without the same pain.
Scott Elliot
http://www3.telus.net/selliot/
"Chris Pella" <cpe...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:1043591267.707018@sj-nntpcache-3...
Adalbert
same circumstances. So do friends and some of them are very fit (
adventure racers etc )I experience it also when mountain bike racing.
As you correctly state, usually happens if I go out too hard early on
especially on climbs, in either sport. I find I have a better race if
I start at an easier pace and then I can increase it later. Seems to
avoid the back problem and I place just as well. I also find this
condition is aggravated if I am not well rested before a race, ie -
skied or biked too much in the days prior to the event. Maybe age is a
factor in that too,-I'm 51.
Gene Goldenfeld
technique. Posture is one area. Incomplete weight shift (side to side)
is another primary cause. Sometimes just repeating the same stroke can
lead to fatigue. Doing a few deep double poles (hands below knees)
often helps loosen the back. But what do you do if you're getting sore
from lots of dp? Try changing to diagonal or kick-dp. Occasionally,
even the placement of a water bottle pouch can cause some soreness.
Usually, though, the problem is technique related and that needs to be
pursued. Lee Borowski's old book, Ski Faster, Easier
(www.abebooks.com), goes into this a lot.
Gene
Pete Hickey
>for any length of time.
This sometimes happens to me early in the season when I go for
too long of a classic ski, after getting in shape skating.
In my case, it think it comes because the polling wants
to rotate teh body, and the back muscles must hold it straight.
There aren't too many octivities that do this. (canoe paddeling
might)
When you are skating or double polling, you are pushing equally
from each side.
It usually only happens once a season when it does. I haven't
had it for the past few years, since I started starting with
classic.
-Pete
--
--
LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot
taste the difference between fried dog and fried cat?
Janne G
>
> I concentrated on form during an long ski today, and I think that I was
> arching my back as a consequence of trying to get my hips farther forward
> over the glide ski. I took some lessons to improve my technique and I
> believe I was overcompensating to get rid of the "late kick" syndrome. It's
> the law of unintended consequences: trying to correct one problem introduces
> another "bug".
If i have bad grip (relatively) i also have some backpain. And i have
found that it is the quest for the grip that makes me ski bad and strained
and with that the backpain comes.
When pushing the pace then your grip maybe isn't enough for your kick, or
your technique is going away when going harder or the both.
My sudgestions is concentrate on weight shift with even forced and long kick
(don't forget to bend your "landing knee") blended with some polling to
let the back rest and change the posture from time to time.
--
Forward in all directions
Janne G
Hoodoo40
double pole, with a good bend forward, to help loosen it up. If I add some
double pole in or even the kick to double pole, it keeps my back okey-dokey.
I think the lower back pain in my case is more of the repedative motion of
my back muscles with the forward lean. The change in motion (double poling
and bending forward) relieves the muscles.
My 2 cents, John
"Chris Pella" <cpe...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:1043591267.707018@sj-nntpcache-3...
Jeff Potter
relates to using the "good" racing posture that I'm learning how to do. Like a
slumped-forward C-shape. To get good kick I'm also trying to curl my butt
under. I think I was told to do that. After trying to do all this for two days
straight skiing, I felt a couple little twinges going up long hills. I don't
recall what made it go away or really when it happened other than on uphills.
It went away. Maybe I made it go away by tucking-butt a little better. Maybe
missing some sharp kicks did it. Who knows. Good luck!
--
Jeff Potter j...@outyourbackdoorNOSPAM.com
http://OutYourBackdoor.com -- a friendly ezine of modern folkways and
culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of
bikes, boats, skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music
...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local fun,
bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy Smokes!!!
Adalbert
sore back in classic? I have tried them for 24hr Mountain Bike races
and they seem to help if not completely stop the pain. Haven't tried
it for sking but am considering it.
Jeff Potter
about what CAUSED the pain.
Adalbert wrote:
--
Matt Morency
> Oh yeah, all the pain goes away, but isn't that doping? : ) I wonder
> about what CAUSED the pain.
>
darpapoetin(sp?). WADA is probably the same way. The moral of the
story is no pain medicine should be used in Val Di Fiemme this year or
cross country skiing may be marked by a nasty three-peat. `
--Matt
Gene Goldenfeld
>
> Jeff Potter wrote:
> > Oh yeah, all the pain goes away, but isn't that doping? : ) I wonder
> > about what CAUSED the pain.
> >
> By NCAA standards it is doping, on par with the use of EPO or
> darpapoetin(sp?). WADA is probably the same way. The moral of the
> story is no pain medicine should be used in Val Di Fiemme this year or
> cross country skiing may be marked by a nasty three-peat. `
> --Matt
Ibuprofen is doping? Did you get that from the actual proscribed list?
Hard to believe. Pain killers and anti-inflammatories are commonly and
openly used by professional athletes and any old patient recovering from
a knee operation (and many others). Check out this week's Tiger Woods
story where he talks about the painkillers he was taking for his knee
last season. No scandal there. I don't know about the other drug. For
painkilling alone, I suggest Capsaicin cream (hot chile peppers --
.025%). No side effects. For an average daily need anti-inflammatory,
try black currant oil gel caps. Active ingredient is something like
gamma linolec acid (GLA). Recommended by Dr. Andrew Weil and found very
effective by yours truly. Email me privately for cheapest source and
exactly what to order.
Gene Goldenfeld
Matt Morency
> Matt Morency wrote:
>
>>Jeff Potter wrote:
>>
>>>Oh yeah, all the pain goes away, but isn't that doping? : ) I wonder
>>>about what CAUSED the pain.
>>>
>>
>>By NCAA standards it is doping, on par with the use of EPO or
>>darpapoetin(sp?). WADA is probably the same way. The moral of the
>>story is no pain medicine should be used in Val Di Fiemme this year or
>>cross country skiing may be marked by a nasty three-peat. `
>> --Matt
>
>
>
> Ibuprofen is doping? Did you get that from the actual proscribed list?
> Hard to believe. Pain killers and anti-inflammatories are commonly and
> openly used by professional athletes and any old patient recovering from
> a knee operation (and many others). Check out this week's Tiger Woods
> story where he talks about the painkillers he was taking for his knee
> last season. No scandal there. I don't know about the other drug. For
> painkilling alone, I suggest Capsaicin cream (hot chile peppers --
> .025%). No side effects. For an average daily need anti-inflammatory,
> try black currant oil gel caps. Active ingredient is something like
> gamma linolec acid (GLA). Recommended by Dr. Andrew Weil and found very
> effective by yours truly. Email me privately for cheapest source and
> exactly what to order.
Pain relivers that change the thickness of the blood like aspirin or
ibuprofen are substance offenses if you go beyond a certain
concentration in the blood without a doctor's order. Prescription pain
killers and anti-inflammatories are substance offenses without a
current doctor's prescription. Even acne cream and soda can cause a
substanse offense. I found much of this out from a college trainer who
showed me a list of NCAA banned and controled substances.
--Matt Morency
Adalbert
> By NCAA standards it is doping, on par with the use of EPO or
> darpapoetin(sp?). WADA is probably the same way. The moral of the
> story is no pain medicine should be used in Val Di Fiemme this year or
> cross country skiing may be marked by a nasty three-peat. `
> --Matt
I haven't been invited to ski World Cup,- have you ?!! ;-)
Gene Goldenfeld
Matt Morency wrote:
> >>By NCAA standards it is doping, on par with the use of EPO or
> >>darpapoetin(sp?). WADA is probably the same way. The moral of the
> >>story is no pain medicine should be used in Val Di Fiemme this year or
> >>cross country skiing may be marked by a nasty three-peat. `
> Pain relivers that change the thickness of the blood like aspirin or
> ibuprofen are substance offenses if you go beyond a certain
> concentration in the blood without a doctor's order. Prescription pain
> killers and anti-inflammatories are substance offenses without a
> current doctor's prescription. Even acne cream and soda can cause a
> substanse offense. I found much of this out from a college trainer who
> showed me a list of NCAA banned and controled substances.
I don't agree with Adelbert that WC skiers are the only ones that should
follow the rules. Living in LA and skiing in the Sierra, I used to take
diamox (acetazolamide ) to help the adjustment to 9000', until I checked
the banned drug lists. It was still helpful sometimes for backpacking.
Not being a chemist perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't find
ibuprofen or aspirin on either the FIS or NCAA banned lists. Can you?
Are acne cream and soda there? Here are the links:
http://www.fis-ski.com/rulesandpublications/medicaldoping/medicalguide2002-2003.pdf
-- p.55-56
http://www.ncaa.org/ -- Rules & Eligibility/Drug-Testing Program/Banned
Drubs
Gene
Adalbert
doping etc,etc. The thread is about lower back pain and what works to
prevent it. How many threads have you read in this and other groups
that go off on some tangent and never answer the original question?
Yes, way too many. If one does not have an answer/contribution towards
the original post - why post a reply???? That's my rant,- thanks 8-(
Gene Goldenfeld <gene...@highstream.net> wrote in message news:<3E3C8236...@highstream.net>...
phof...@math.uwaterloo.ca
at least in DP or kickDP, lower back pain happens to me when I get sloppy
with my head position during the follow-through. As soon as I concentrate
on looking down between my boots, maybe even back behind my heels, every
time, the ache seems to let up. But there seems to be no analogous
trick when diagonal-striding, which in a race is only on steep enough
climbs, where sore back doesn't seem to plague me much. I can't remember
which technique was causing the problem for the original poster, but
hope this suggestion to not "crane" the neck to keep gazing down the track
is of some use.
Best, Peter phof...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Gene Goldenfeld
discussion focused on the legality of certain ways of treating one's
back pain. Seems on topic to me.
Gene
Adalbert
Gene Goldenfeld <gene...@highstream.net> wrote in message news:<3E3DBD08...@highstream.net>...
Matt Morency
> So your saying Ibuprofen, etc is illegal? !!
caffeine.
lustig
> > So your saying Ibuprofen, etc is illegal? !!
> Not illegal period, but above a certain concentration. Same deal with
> caffeine.
I do not wish to contribute to undesired thread drift, but
I strongly believe you or your source are, as the Swedes
would say, "out and riding a bicycle".
Caffeine is on the FIS/IOC/WADA list of banned substances,
asipirin and ibuprofen are not.
The list specifies the concentration (12mg/l) above which
caffeine is illegal, but (naturally) no such limit for
aspirin or ibuprofen.
I would be greatly amazed if the NCAA had a different policy,
and I悲 very much like to learn where the limit is drawn.
But I find it much more likely there may exist a certain
amount of confusion even among college coaches. One possible
explanation that comes to mind is that the relevant banned
substance is *ephedrine*; some over-the-counter medicines
contain both aspirin or ibuprofen *and* ephedrine.
If I惴 mistaken, I don愒 mind being proven wrong:-)
Anders
Gene Goldenfeld
earlier in this thread. Neither shows ibuprofen or aspirin, or acne
cream and soda, and thus I asked Matt for further clarification, which
hasn't been provided. The explanation about ephedrine may be behind
part of the confusion. Chugging sodas could probably lead to an
overdose of caffeine, among other things. Haven't used acne cream for a
few decades.
Gene
swee...@gmail.com
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Good luck in your health journey! :)
Terje Henriksen
it is something wrong with your skiing technique.
--
Terje Henriksen
Hesseng/Kirkenes
