Poles; CT1 vs. CT2

[Bjorn A. Payne Diaz]

I need to get some new poles for mass start racing and I'm debating the
Swix CT1 vs. CT2. My thoughts are the CT2 is stiff enough (compared to
the CT1) for a 152 cm length. The stiffness measure doesn't mean much
to me, so I'm guessing. Of course the CT2 is quite a bit less
expensive, and will probably take more hits than the CT1. Any thoughts?

Jay Wenner

[sknyski]

I believe that the CT2 equates to the old "Team" greenies. I used a
pair of 152s Teams for striding (I guess I'm taller than you) and they
were fine. I don't think that there is a big diff in feel between the
CT1s (old "Star") and the CT2s, but I've been CT1/Star-only for a while
(because I'm a materialistic stiff who values only having the best
stuff).

If you're not shallow like I am, and are happy with "second best" (and
a lot more cash in your pocket) then I'd go with the CT2s. That extra
wiggle in the shaft (calm down, Bob) may save your pole in the chaos of
a start.

bt

[Gene Goldenfeld]

I used the Team/CT2 for several years in the trade off between weight
and breakage fears in races, but switched over to Infinity and Jenex for
the additional stiffness at the past two Korte/Birkies (156 & 168 cm).
Comparing the older CT2 and Jenex rollersking the other day (classic
d-p), the Swix felt noticeably more flexible and less responsive. I
raise that not to sell or get into the debate about different poles, but
because you are such a good racer that giving up stiffness for 51K seems
a big compromise vs. the alternatives. BTW, the Infinity site has some
graphs comparing their poles to the Star and Team in strength, flex and
stiffness: http://www.zre.com/infinityskipoles/datagraphs.html

Gene

[Craig Storey]

Yeah, save your money and your arms - go with the Infinity Extremes.
They can take a beating (no matter what you hear) and are much stiffer.
I'm 215lbs and use 175cm skate poles - Stars feel like noodles by
comparison and I like the bigger grip size...but they have the small
ones too.

Craig

[Gene Goldenfeld]

The Jenex poles are currently $79 uncut + shipping. Stick your Swix
grips/straps and baskets on. Easily the best deal out there right now.

Gene

[revy...@yahoo.com]

I've been using the TEAMs (CT2) and Jenex's composite poles for most of
my skiing and I found Len's poles be noticeably stiffer than the TEAMS.

[lo....@free.fr]

I love the Exel C1 strap. Quite tricky to adjust properly (I almost
gave up), but once done you have an easier control of the pole..

I spent that amount of money in exel C1 to get maximum stiffness and
lightness with the hope of relieving forearms and hands, which are
causing me problems and pains especially when double-poling.

Better strap was not forseen but worth (part of) the money.

I also noticed that I opened my arms too wide and elbows were a bit
high.
So, with several measures : Correcting my general position and arms
degree of opening ; new poles (shorter also), things improved.

[Bjorn A. Payne Diaz]

"Yeah, save your money and your arms - go with the Infinity Extremes.
They can take a beating (no matter what you hear) and are much stiffer.
"

A couple years ago during the start of the Birkie, I broke Dave Dow's
left pole with my right ski. I was gliding on my left ski and waiting
for him to move his pole, so I was surprised that as my ski slide up
his pole, that light tap was enough to break his pole. After the race I
apologized, and said, "Was that an infiinity pole, because that thing
snapped like a toothpick." "Well yeah, but it's been fine for years."

Jay Wenner

[cpella]

I'm not a materials scientist or physicist, but it seems to me that a
thin carbon fibre pole may snap fairly readily if there is an impulse
from the side, especially if the pole is fixed at both ends (planted).
I don't think they make good bridge structures. If there is a
micro-defect near the point of impulse perhaps it doesn't take alot of
force. I've seen a few poles from reputable manufacturers snap when
struck at the right angle with not alot of force. That's just the
trade-off between stiffness, lightness, and strength, I guess.

Chris

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz wrote:

[Craig Storey]

Jay,

"Was that an infiinity pole, because that thing snapped like a toothpick."

Have you ever owned a pair or just broken someone elses? The truth
about poles is that if you hit them the right way they break, and it
doesn't have to be a hard blow. That's why Swix and Excel were forced
to offer 1 year warranties!

I've been sponsored by both and have had both broken, and broken both on
my own. I'm now using Infinity, while I haven't had one broken for me
(1 birkie (wave 1 last year) , 4 Keskinadas, 4 national championships
and 4 years of training) I did break one on an icy day when all 210lbs
of me fell on it. My shin was sore for a few days, so it didn't break
that easily.

My teamates ski over them all the time in sprints, time trials and
interval sessions and I'm comfortable saying they are as durable as all
other poles. They are also lighter and stiffer - a big advantage. Not
to mention supporting a local initiative rather than a conglomerate that
has their poles made by a golf club company for them. (Yep, in China.)

Craig

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz wrote:

[delltodd]

> A couple years ago during the start of the Birkie, I broke Dave Dow's
> left pole with my right ski. I was gliding on my left ski and waiting
> for him to move his pole, so I was surprised that as my ski slide up
> his pole, that light tap was enough to break his pole. After the race I
> apologized, and said, "Was that an infiinity pole, because that thing
> snapped like a toothpick." "Well yeah, but it's been fine for years."
>
> Jay Wenner

Jay,

WHICH Infinity model was it that you broke ? They made an R1 which was
crazy light, and I guess they decided not to no longer offer it to the
general public because it wasn't suitable for mass starts.

There seems to be a lot of anecdotal stories of broken Inifinity poles
at the Birkie. I recall a WHOLE BUNCH of broken silver pole ends the
trail in my last two Birkies, and those would not be Infinity poles.
Infinity poles are fine. You can pay a lot more for a very similar
pole, and those break under certain circumstances just like any.

The Infinity Extreme's are great poles, and I've had very good
performance out of mine. I have a pair each for both CL & FS. I can
also add that these poles have taken plenty of abuse too. Many's the
time when I rolled over the tip rollerskiing, thinking Oh no, here we
go I just broke it, and I got away with it. So, it's not like they
shatter at the sight of trouble.

Anyway, we have snow here in Grand Rapids, MI on Nov 17. How awesome is
that ?!

Dell

[Bjorn A. Payne Diaz]

Dell,

I have no idea what type of Infinity pole that was, or if it was
previously damaged. I didn't intend to start a pole war, I just thought
of the story when these posts came up. And yes, I have broken a pole in
the Vasaloppet one year...well...another guy and I both broke high end
Exel poles (forget the name), and it sounded like shattering glass. A
few km later I got a replacement from Lou Chinard's (sp?) wife and
still finished well. At first she wouldn't give me the pole thinking I
wanted Lou's food. Hah!

Jay

[whit...@nyc.rr.com]

Has anyone tried the new atomic carbon race pole? Pretty cheap at 80-90
bucks, but do you get what you pay for? I can't seem to find any info
other than various store websites descriptions.

[Gene Goldenfeld]

I didn't want to start one either, since the point was about pole
stiffness and strength relative to the risk of breakage in a mass start
race. But it seems to be a topic waiting for a discussion. The
graphics on the Infinity page give some useful measurements on Star vs
Team (SS, ST), as well Infinity poles.

Gene

"Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" wrote:
>

[NordicNut]

I've used the teams (ct2) for a couple seasons in a 155 length for
classic, and I"m totally happy with them. Plenty stiff, plenty light,
good poles.

Paul Belknap

[32 degrees]

CARBON FIBER?
C1?
C2?
Star?
Exel?
Swix?

REAL MEN USE BAMBOO - GO WITH BAMBOO JAY !!!!!!!
Lightweight, pretty strong, and 100% renewable !!

JK