The sheep in the living room
Scott Abraham
sickness in dysfunctional families (or addiction):
that there is an elephant in the living room.
For the purposes of speaking about rsa, I shall refer to this as "the
sheep in the living room."
The sheep, of course, are the obvious sickness that has come into this
group the past couple of years that centers around Anthea and her
friends.
The sheep, of course, are the lies and pretensions that are at the core
of the Invader ethos: the pathetic determination to maintain their image
no matter what they have to do, the strength of the denial, the
compulsive need to maintain appearance to the outside world.
When someone points out there are sheep in the living room, that person
is ostracized, attacked, demeaned, slandered, libeled, and scorned. The
group needs to prove that they are not crazy, so they try to make the
truthteller seem crazy.
Is any of this sounding familiar?
Because I'm sure laughing ruefully at how sick these people have become.
I've maintained that there is a very sick dynamic at the core of the
Invasion that centers on Anthea Kerrison. Anyone who sees that the
self-proclaimed Empress has no clothes, and that her friends are by and
large the nerdiest people in the group, gets attacked. Happened with
Bob, happened with klaus, and happens with me. Anthea plays innocent
victim in public while working feverishly behind the scenes to
orchestrate campaigns to discredit the person who sees through her act,
and every nutcase on the web joins in.
Naturally, everyone in the circle denies that the Empress has no
clothes, even though the Empress is so ugly that virtually every person
outside the circle sees the dynamic perfectly.
So the group attacks, and as more and more people see the truth about
the group, their attacks escalate.
Denial is such a fascinating human reaction, is it not?
I've known for a long time how vile some human beings can get to protect
their reputations, and how such people find expression for their
agression and hatred in tearing down other human beings. I saw it four
years ago with the slut of rsa, in a very similar situation.
But there is always room for amazement, and I am truly amazed at the
depths to which Anthea and her friends have sunk, the blatant hypocrisy,
the outright lies, and the joy they take in attacking another human
being whose only crime is to see them for what they are and describe
them for what they are, accurately and fairly.
How desperate can you be when you are trying with all your powers, with
no restraint, with no decency, to destroy an innocent man simply because
he got tired of letting such evil exist without pointing out its
potential for destruction?
Every single aspect of my life has been drug out of the swamp, twisted
beyond recognition, and used to try to portray me as an insane mass
murderer, a violent man, a destructive man, a man who is deluded,
mentally incompetent, suffering from mental disorders, a sexual
predator, a liar, and whatever sick fantasies these people can invent.
Have they no shame? Have they no conscience? Have they no ethics, or
morals, or limits?
It appears not.
It is the same sad old game of trying to make the truth teller look
crazy, of shameless lying, of using any tactic they can drag out of the
slime of their souls to distract, deny, and hide.
Except there is a slight problem.
I think most of you see them exactly for what they are. I know that
every single one of my friends support me. These are people who have
known me for years, skied with me, stayed with me, had me as a guest in
their homes, and curiously enough, despite the libel of Team Satan, I am
still welcome in all those homes.
Somewhere along the line, no of them has noticed that I am a delusional
manic depressive violent man driven by his hatred: this is an invention
of these truly evil people.
I knew this would get messy, just like the living room, but I really
didn't expect that Anthea and her friends could lower themselves into
the sewer and spew such filth with such vicious glee.
My arguement has remained the same: Anthea is a slanderer who
manipulates behind the scenes while maintaining a professional victim
posture on the net, a thief, and a very sick woman who has no life
outside of rsa, so is driven to compulsively protect her pathetic
image. She attracks people like her, people who live in lies, people
who also compelled to protect themselves from self knowledge, people who
lack many of the moral and ethical standards the rest of us strive to
live up to.
I think I've proved my point.
How more vile can someone be than to use the fact that I was sexually
abused as a child as a way of proving Anthea is innocent of the charges
I level?
Especially since when they stoop to do such evil, they prove the point I
originally made?
Do they really believe that the rest of rsa is buying this insanity,
that they are not exposed for what they are?
Do they really believe that the rest of rsa will conclude, with no
evidence other than these filthy lies, that I am an insane, dangerous
man?
I think they do. I think they are that sick, that vicious, that cruel,
that deluded.
The sheep are in the living room, folks, and we can't pretend that the
flock isn't crapping on our newsgroup.
I'm not surprised that more people havn't stepped forward, because to do
so would expose them to the same kind of rabid attack that I have been
targeted with: these groups protect themselves from exposure by the
threat of such a concerted, conciousless campaign of lies.
But there is something YOU can do, and it is very simple.
Refuse to associate with these people.
Refuse them your homes, refuse to ski with them, refuse to be identified
with them in any way.
I can tell you this: I will not associate with any of them under any
circumstances, and I won't have anything to do with anyone who does
offer support and friendship to those people.
Which is no problem as far as my real friends and the healthy people of
this group are concerned, because most of them have already made that
decision.
Social pressure is the only way that we can enforce a reasonably
civilized code of ethics and behavior on this group.
There is evil among us, people, and you know damn well that if you step
forward, that evil will be focused on you.
I understand that reluctance, because who needs the aggravation, and I
thank all of you who wrote me privately to express your compassion.
But I'm not backing away.
As long as Anthea and her attack dogs are on this newsgroup, I'm going
to keep reminding everyone of their utter lack of character and
morality, of their conciousless lies, of their dishonesty and
pretensions.
I see the sheep, and I think most of you see the sheep, too.
Scott
Scott Abraham
Chaz2hqz did me the favor of proving the truth of what I wrote:
> Scott Abraham <scot...@earthlink.net> saw sheep everywhere:
>
> Long paranoid discourse snipped.
Paranoia?
That's right, I'm crazy. I've never seen any emails in which Anthea slandered me
or anyone else, there is no manipulations behind the scenes between her and her
buddies, and they are all out to get me, everything happens independently with no
coordination.
Exactly what I said these people were saying, and you are sick enough to buy it.
BTW, who are you?
>
>
> >But there is something YOU can do, and it is very simple.
> >Refuse to associate with these people.
> >Refuse them your homes, refuse to ski with them, refuse to be identified
> >with them in any way.
> >I can tell you this: I will not associate with any of them under
> >any circumstances, and I won't have anything to do with anyone who does
> >offer support and friendship to those people.
> >Which is no problem as far as my real friends and the healthy people of this
> group are concerned, because
> >most of them have already made that
> >decision.
>
> Short paranoid discourse snipped.
>
> Scott, can those of us who are greatly concerned about your mental stability,
> and your penchant for violence, take this to be a commitment that you will NOT
> attend Invasion 2000?
Once again, questioning the mental stability of the truth teller, repeating a
slander as it is fact.
Would someone care to point out any evidence that I have a penchant for violence?
Any criminal records, any witnesses, anything except shameless slander?
I have no problem proudly stating that I have put my life on the line in defense
of others, something I'm damn sure none of you assholes have ever done, but
penchant to violence?
What an immense and unfounded lie. How dare you repeat such vicious character
assasination.
What a sick bunch of people hang out here. How vile can you be?
Scott
Chaz2hqz
Long paranoid discourse snipped.
>But there is something YOU can do, and it is very simple.
>Refuse to associate with these people.
>Refuse them your homes, refuse to ski with them, refuse to be identified
>with them in any way.
>I can tell you this: I will not associate with any of them under
>any circumstances, and I won't have anything to do with anyone who does
>offer support and friendship to those people.
>Which is no problem as far as my real friends and the healthy people of this
group are concerned, because
>most of them have already made that
>decision.
Short paranoid discourse snipped.
Hollywood Horvath
>In recovery circles, there is an analogy that is frequently used about
>sickness in dysfunctional families (or addiction):
[blah blah blah]
>I see the sheep, and I think most of you see the sheep, too.
>
I don't. But I don't have your SEAL experience.
--
Horvath
I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
For information on the Horvath Network e-mail In...@Horvath.net
Winston
scot...@earthlink.net wrote:
> In recovery circles, there is an analogy that is frequently used about
> sickness in dysfunctional families (or addiction):
> that there is an elephant in the living room.
I've been in a recovery circle, if you want to know why it was for gambling
and the distruction of my self esteem it caused at one point in my life. I
have never heard of what you have just discribed.
> For the purposes of speaking about rsa, I shall refer to this as "the
> sheep in the living room."
> The sheep, of course, are the obvious sickness that has come into this
> group the past couple of years that centers around Anthea and her
> friends.
What is this absolute fascination you have with sheep?
> The sheep, of course, are the lies and pretensions that are at the core
> of the Invader ethos: the pathetic determination to maintain their image
> no matter what they have to do, the strength of the denial, the
> compulsive need to maintain appearance to the outside world.
> When someone points out there are sheep in the living room, that person
> is ostracized, attacked, demeaned, slandered, libeled, and scorned. The
> group needs to prove that they are not crazy, so they try to make the
> truthteller seem crazy.
I have no image to maintain. I just wonder why you are just so off your
rocker. I have yet to see a simple reply to any question WITHOUT any
inflammitory comments or cursing added into the reply.
If you interpret what people are saying into the above discriptions that is
your choice. What they try to say might be something completely different, you
haven't opened you mind to the possibilities and have decided that what you
think is correct and is true is the only vision of the truth. The ugliest of
wars happen because of these "visonaries" and if you are a self proclaimed
prophet thank God you don't lead a small country, and your dilousions are
limited to the internet.
> It is the same sad old game of trying to make the truth teller look
> crazy, of shameless lying, of using any tactic they can drag out of the
> slime of their souls to distract, deny, and hide.
> Except there is a slight problem.
> I think most of you see them exactly for what they are. I know that
> every single one of my friends support me. These are people who have
> known me for years, skied with me, stayed with me, had me as a guest in
> their homes, and curiously enough, despite the libel of Team Satan, I am
> still welcome in all those homes.
> Somewhere along the line, no of them has noticed that I am a delusional
> manic depressive violent man driven by his hatred: this is an invention
> of these truly evil people.
Or an invention of your own mind.
> I knew this would get messy, just like the living room, but I really
> didn't expect that Anthea and her friends could lower themselves into
> the sewer and spew such filth with such vicious glee.
You provide the feul to the fire Scott, if you live your life openly be
prepared for when times turn sour. Sorry if I sounded like a fortune cookie
there.
What is this thing with sheep? You can see sheep?!??
>
> Scott
>
>
--
Winston
Team Satan Agent 0.08 - Licence to Ill
ICQ:36998070
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Chaz2hqz
>Date: 4/24/99 10:02 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <372285C5...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Chaz2hqz did me the favor of proving the truth of what I wrote:
>
>> Scott Abraham <scot...@earthlink.net> saw sheep everywhere:
>>
>> Long paranoid discourse snipped.
>
>Paranoia?
>That's right, I'm crazy. I've never seen any emails in which Anthea
>slandered me
>or anyone else, there is no manipulations behind the scenes between her and
>her
>buddies, and they are all out to get me, everything happens independently
>with no
>coordination.
>Exactly what I said these people were saying, and you are sick enough to buy
>it.
>BTW, who are you?
>
>>
>>
>> >But there is something YOU can do, and it is very simple.
>> >Refuse to associate with these people.
>> >Refuse them your homes, refuse to ski with them, refuse to be identified
>> >with them in any way.
>> >I can tell you this: I will not associate with any of them under
>> >any circumstances, and I won't have anything to do with anyone who does
>> >offer support and friendship to those people.
>> >Which is no problem as far as my real friends and the healthy people of
>this
>> group are concerned, because
>> >most of them have already made that
>> >decision.
>>
>> Short paranoid discourse snipped.
>>
>> Scott, can those of us who are greatly concerned about your mental
>stability,
>> and your penchant for violence, take this to be a commitment that you will
>NOT
>> attend Invasion 2000?
>
>Once again, questioning the mental stability of the truth teller, repeating a
>slander as it is fact.
>Would someone care to point out any evidence that I have a penchant for
>violence?
>
OK, Scott you ask a question and I will answer it. (Unlike you I might add.)
On 10/16/1998 you wrote:
"I got my early training in violence as a boxer. Then my mother worked for the
Navy, and I lived next to the SEAL training base and took an advanced course in
applied mayhem. Then I went to Nam (journalist, not soldier) and spent a lovely
time ducking bullets from people who were trying to kill me while I was busy
doing the same thing to them. Got down to hand to hand at one point, Jeremiah.
Loser dies. I'm alive. Two bullet holes, but alive. No, Jeremiah. You do not
know how I fight, because I do not fight. Fighting is for dumb fuck morons like
you. I'm an ex-cop. Bodyguard. Security. 15 years experience in dealing with
stupid dumb punks like you who think youth matters.I am a professional,
Jeremiah. You would last less than ten seconds, and the only question would be
if you lived or not. I'm getting old and fat, so Ican't afford to take
chances.....which means you go down, go down fast, and I don't worry about
whether you will ever ski again...or walk, or see, or fuck."
There are many more, but I won't waste the time or bandwidth to quote them.
Scott ranting snipped.
>
>
>Scott
>
Now that I have answered your question, would you answer the one I originally
asked?
Alex Heney
<bo...@ironlight.net> wrote:
>> On 10/16/1998 Scott Abraham wrote:
>> I got my early training in violence as a boxer. Then my mother worked for the
>> Navy, and I lived next to the SEAL training base and took an advanced course in
>> applied mayhem.
>
>Do I really need to tear this one apart? I think the only Seal training
>he got was at Sea World, where they taught him how to throw fish to the
>seals. Now, if he said he trained with people like Paul Vunak, I might
>have believed him....
>
Boots, Scott is very picky about us not reading implications into what
he posts. he never actually *said* that he had SEAL training. He said
he lived next to the SEAL base, and he took a course in applied
mayhem. Left others to connect the two - i.e. they probably were not
connected, he only posted that way in order to be able to attack
people when the call him on his supposed SEAL training (shit - I'm
getting to think he is bloody devious now)
> Then I went to Nam (journalist, not soldier) and spent a lovely
>> time ducking bullets from people who were trying to kill me while I was busy
>> doing the same thing to them.
>
>With Seal training, they wanted pictures. Here, applied mayhem expert,
>let's make you a double secret agent, have a camera gun, it looks like a
>real camera, but really it's a gun to shoot at all the bad guys with, and
>since you took advanced mahem and destruction from the Seals when you were
>12, here's a backpack nuke to kill people with.
>
Like I said, he never said he had SEAL training. But the real question
there is why he was shooting if he was only there as a journalist.
--
Alex Heney, global villager
Please remove NO and SPAM from above
address if replying by email.
Hollywood Horvath
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:07:05 -0700, David *Boots* Hobbs
><bo...@ironlight.net> wrote:
>
>>> On 10/16/1998 Scott Abraham wrote:
>>> I got my early training in violence as a boxer. Then my mother worked for the
>>> Navy, and I lived next to the SEAL training base and took an advanced course in
>>> applied mayhem.
>
>he posts. he never actually *said* that he had SEAL training.
Oh, he doesn't want us to read into this? He said he lived next to a SEAL
base and took a course? I guess we're NOT SUPPOSED to read into this?
>> Then I went to Nam (journalist, not soldier) and spent a lovely
>>> time ducking bullets from people who were trying to kill me while I was busy
>>> doing the same thing to them.
>
>Like I said, he never said he had SEAL training. But the real question
>there is why he was shooting if he was only there as a journalist.
>
Here's a newsflash. Civilians are NOT issued weapons.
Scott is a liar. Even while he is trying to claim the high road and
expose all liars.
Bob Lee
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Alex Heney wrote:
[...]
> > Like I said, he never said he had SEAL training. But the real question
> > there is why he was shooting if he was only there as a journalist.
>
> See, did he really say he was there as a civilian journalist or as an
> enlisted journalist? Don't enlisted journalists get to shoot people? I'm
> very unaware of our wartime practices, I need to start watching Dan Rather
> or Barbara Walters more, so I can observe their behavior and see if they
> shoot people. That should be the real test.
Y'all should read the acclaimed book, "Dispatches" by Michael Herr.
Vietnam non-fiction with some writing about journalists there.
A few quotes about journalists shooting:
"We covered each other, an exchange of services that worked all right until
one night when I (the author, a civilian journalist) slid over to the wrong
end of the story, propped behind some sandbags at an airstip in Can Tho
with a .30-caliber automatic in my hands, firing cover for a four-man
reaction team trying to get back in."
"A day after John and the others died, a strange, death-charged kid named
Charlie Eggleston, a UPI photographer, got killed at the Cemetery,
reportedly while returning fire at a Viet Cong position."
"If (civilian journalists) went (into the bush on operations)
often,...you'd eventually find yourself in a position where survival
etiquette insisted that you take a weapon ("You know how that thang works
'n' air-thang?" a young sargent had to ask me once, and I'd had to nod as
he threw it to me and said, "Then git some!"...)..."
So I wouldn't dismiss the idea just off-hand.
Bob
Vail - the horror, the horror
Hollywood Horvath
>> Like I said, he never said he had SEAL training. But the real question
>> there is why he was shooting if he was only there as a journalist.
>
>See, did he really say he was there as a civilian journalist or as an
>enlisted journalist?
Scott said he was a non-soldier. I believe he means he was a civilian.
Civilians are not issued weapons. Civilians don't get to shoot back.
> Don't enlisted journalists get to shoot people?
No. There are no enlisted journalists. Scott is lying.
> I'm
>very unaware of our wartime practices,
I happen to be a retired military officer. You can trust my answers. I'm
an expert, don't try this at home.
> I need to start watching Dan Rather
>or Barbara Walters more, so I can observe their behavior and see if they
>shoot people. That should be the real test.
Those people are idiots. I recommend you hang around Hooters. (Or a post
office.)
Hollywood Horvath
>
>Y'all should read the acclaimed book, "Dispatches" by Michael Herr.
>Vietnam non-fiction with some writing about journalists there.
>
>A few quotes about journalists shooting:
>
>"We covered each other, an exchange of services that worked all right until
>one night when I (the author, a civilian journalist) slid over to the wrong
>end of the story, propped behind some sandbags at an airstip in Can Tho
>with a .30-caliber automatic in my hands, firing cover for a four-man
>reaction team trying to get back in."
>
>
I would. It sounds like bullshit to me.
The only .30 caliber automatics used by the U.S. military, at that time,
was the M-14 and the M-60 machine gun.
The M-14 was replaced by the M-16 in Viet Nam, and the M-60 is a a crew
served weapon, which requires a gunner and a loader.
And if you think he had an older M-14, you have to remember that the M-14
was a semi-automatic, that had to be modified to make it fully automatic.
It's not likely that a journalist had one.
Winston
> > "If (civilian journalists) went (into the bush on operations)
> > often,...you'd eventually find yourself in a position where survival
> > etiquette insisted that you take a weapon ("You know how that thang works
> > 'n' air-thang?" a young sargent had to ask me once, and I'd had to nod as
> > he threw it to me and said, "Then git some!"...)..."
> >
>
> of Vietnam showed. However, I still dismiss most of what XXXXX (the fat
> guy that left us) says because of the nature of his rant. I doubt a lot
> of what he said. Perhaps journalists do shoot people, I wouldn't know, I
> wasn't there. In XXXXX's case, I doubt he was there shooting at people.
As I said before, he was probably shooting pictures (since they don't move....
ahem) or hucking Parker pens at the enemy.
>
> Team Satan - When Hell Froze Over...
> --
> David
> bo...@general.net
> www.general.net/~boots
>
> Always riding Belligerent
>
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Vail - the horror, the horror
> >
> >
>
>
--
Winston
Team Satan Agent 0.08 - License to Ill
Bob Lee
> On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Bob Lee wrote:
> > "If (civilian journalists) went (into the bush on operations)
> > often,...you'd eventually find yourself in a position where survival
> > etiquette insisted that you take a weapon ("You know how that thang works
> > 'n' air-thang?" a young sargent had to ask me once, and I'd had to nod as
> > he threw it to me and said, "Then git some!"...)..."
> >
> > So I wouldn't dismiss the idea just off-hand.
Hovath wrote:
> I would. It sounds like bullshit to me.
>
> The only .30 caliber automatics used by the U.S. military, at that time,
> was the M-14 and the M-60 machine gun.
*Boots* wrote:
> I dismissed the idea strictly because of the source, perhaps my ignorance
> of Vietnam showed. However, I still dismiss most of what XXXXX (the fat
> guy that left us) says because of the nature of his rant. I doubt a lot
> of what he said. Perhaps journalists do shoot people, I wouldn't know, I
> wasn't there. In XXXXX's case, I doubt he was there shooting at people.
and finally ted waldron wrote:
> Once again, I totally agree with you, it shouldn't be dismiss as off hand.
> What I think should be dismissed off hand is that someone who post on this
> Newsgroup was a gun packing, Mad Max journalist who has two bullet wounds
> but keeps on fighting and writing. A braggart is more like it.
Okay, guys, time out - the question I was addressing was whether or not
civilian journalists packed in Nam, and maybe busted a few caps. I'm
willing to take Michael Herr's word for it, YMMV.
As far as to whether Scott Abraham did, that's a separate question. But
since you brought it up, I'm willing to take his word for it - I don't see
any reason not to. But then, I fail to see what bearing *any* of that has
on whether the people at Whistler had a right or a reason to take advantage
of his largess and treat him like an asshole. Maybe I'm just a little
slow.
but ted waldron closed on a nice note:
> Oh on an off topic note, I hope you can get some turns in the San Juans,
> perhaps near Mt. Wilson.
I'd like to, Red Mtn. Pass and Yankee Boy Basin call out to me, but...I'm
not having much luck finding the time I need to thoroughly work the b/c
this spring. Choosing priorities is tuff. I'm hoping to get a trip in to
Wheeler Peak and/or Mt. Shasta.
Bob
Vail - the backcountry will have to do until it reopens
Scott Abraham
Bob Lee kept arguing with scoundrels, which is the only way I got to see this
bullshit:
> In a triple slam, three guys got on my ass:
Happens every time you tape yourself to a park bench, or try to reason with
liars.
You should know better by now, Bob.
>
> Okay, guys, time out - the question I was addressing was whether or not
> civilian journalists packed in Nam, and maybe busted a few caps. I'm
> willing to take Michael Herr's word for it, YMMV.
Take mine. Of course, I wasn't packing anything but a camera when was stupid
enough to get on that Huey. Went to the Land of Bad Things, Bad Things
happened.
Whaddya expect? I was a dumb kid, feeling guilty about dodging the draft, full
of testosterone.
Damn lucky to be alive.
>
> As far as to whether Scott Abraham did, that's a separate question. But
> since you brought it up, I'm willing to take his word for it - I don't see
> any reason not to. But then, I fail to see what bearing *any* of that has
> on whether the people at Whistler had a right or a reason to take advantage
> of his largess and treat him like an asshole. Maybe I'm just a little
> slow.
Slow is not the word. Don't you see?
I went a stinky, hot, nasty place, where I inhaled tons of Agent Orange that
combined with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome caused me to flip out on the Evil
Liddle Bitch and invent all kinds of delusional charges...unless I made it all
up, whereupon I am simply crazy.
Either way, it ain't got a damn thing to do with the ELB and Team Touron, so
damned if I know why these idiots are talking about it.
Bob, Bob.
You can't argue with assholes that think ethics are for fools like us.
So do what I've done.
I won't socialize with these losers in real life, and neither would you unless
they were members of the Taos Gay Marching Band.
So killfile them, and we can amuse ourselves in our own little cyberworld, where
we can tell war stories to our heart's content.
These dweebs never would and never will understand, since they never have and
never will put the welfare of others before their own needs, nor would they ever
put their ass on the line in defense of others.
We are the bros, they are the tourons, and that can't change, so why argue with
civilians?
(BTW, to my great surprise I'm beginning to think Horvath might actually have
been in-country. Which means I have a smidgeon of respect for him compared to
my previous attitude of no respect at all.)
Scott
Tigger
<snip>
> But then, I fail to see what bearing *any* of that has
> on whether the people at Whistler had a right or a reason to take advantage
> of his largess and treat him like an asshole.
Y'know, Bob, that's the interesting thing about it. Of all the folks
that were there, only one has asserted that he was "taken advantage of"
and treated poorly. I do not deny anyone the right to feel how they
feel, yet again, sayin' it doesn't necesssarily make it so.
If one might, for perspective's sake, set aside the issue of the
infamous Sun Peaks tix; the rest of the whole 2 weeks was characterized
by a lot of skiing, a lot of partying, and a lot of tomfoolery. Yhere
was a lot of respect and gratitude expressed to Scott for bringing up
skis for folks to try, arranging parties and stuff. In my opinion, that
does not constitute taking advantage.
Further, the tomfoolery and good-natured ribbing of folks for all sorts
of stuff, real and exaggerated, was rampant. Scott was certainly a
party to a lot of it. In retrospect, his inability to deal with the
time some of the stuff was directed at him (the infamous radio ribbing)
was perhaps to be understood given his various serious shocks that week.
Despite assertions that it was all motivated by mean and nasty
intentions, it was really nothing more than a (probably overdone and
inappropriate) reaction to his attitudes about a stupid race.
Despite the power of "First Assertion", especially when powerfully and
forcefully and eloquently repeated, the sayin' doesn't make it so.
Ob ski: enjoy the backcountry, I envy you it - 'round here, the
backcountry is covered in budding trees and emerging wildflowers. That
stuff is _really_ tough on the edges and seriously difficult to ski.
--
Mike
Bob Lee
> Y'know, Bob, that's the interesting thing about it. Of all the folks
> that were there, only one has asserted that he was "taken advantage of"
> and treated poorly. I do not deny anyone the right to feel how they
> feel, yet again, sayin' it doesn't necesssarily make it so.
That argument cuts both ways, Mike. I wasn't there and I'm not saying this
or that happened, but from experience I have to say that when a number of
people gang up on one, just because the gang has a single point of view
(call it group dynamics), that doesn't necessarily make it so. I bet you
can think of a number of instances (and for the sake of perspective, let's
leave the Whistler one out of it) where a group was unfair to an individual
but had a great time and didn't see what the individual was so upset about.
> If one might, for perspective's sake, set aside the issue of the
> infamous Sun Peaks tix; the rest of the whole 2 weeks was characterized
> by a lot of skiing, a lot of partying, and a lot of tomfoolery. Yhere
> was a lot of respect and gratitude expressed to Scott for bringing up
> skis for folks to try, arranging parties and stuff. In my opinion, that
> does not constitute taking advantage.
I'm not saying that a lot of people didn't have fun - I definitely believe
you about most people enjoying themselves most of the time. And maybe
"taking advantage" wasn't the right phrase for me to use - I should have
said "'enjoyed' his largess," and it seems that you did. But Scott feels
that at some point people treated him like an asshole, and your above
assertions don't really address that.
> Further, the tomfoolery and good-natured ribbing of folks for all sorts
> of stuff, real and exaggerated, was rampant. Scott was certainly a
> party to a lot of it. In retrospect, his inability to deal with the
> time some of the stuff was directed at him (the infamous radio ribbing)
> was perhaps to be understood given his various serious shocks that week.
> Despite assertions that it was all motivated by mean and nasty
> intentions, it was really nothing more than a (probably overdone and
> inappropriate) reaction to his attitudes about a stupid race.
Hmmm, maybe we're getting somewhere here. The words "tomfoolery" and
"ribbing" and "perhaps to be understood" and "probably overdone and
innapropriate" leap out at me. I don't want to take things out of context,
but I can see how there might be a case for Scott feeling the way he felt.
I'm not defending his actions, okay? But am I wrong to think that I'm glad
I wasn't in his place, because it might have felt pretty shitty?
> Despite the power of "First Assertion", especially when powerfully and
> forcefully and eloquently repeated, the sayin' doesn't make it so.
Again, that goes both ways. And given that, then eventually *all* the
involved parties' powerful, forceful, and eloquent assertions are just "did
too! did not!" Time for all to move on and quit trying to win the case.
> Ob ski: enjoy the backcountry, I envy you it - 'round here, the
> backcountry is covered in budding trees and emerging wildflowers. That
> stuff is _really_ tough on the edges and seriously difficult to ski.
Gracias, Miguel. It's snowing up high as I write this, which will help the
skiing and give us a slight reprieve on the fire season. But I'm getting a
new house and a new love, and there just never is enough goddam time to do
all the things that there are to do. But hey, who wants to listen to
complaints like that?
Bob
Vail - too much fun
Hollywood Horvath
>
>> I would. It sounds like bullshit to me.
>>
>> The only .30 caliber automatics used by the U.S. military, at that time,
>> was the M-14 and the M-60 machine gun.
>
>civilian journalists packed in Nam, and maybe busted a few caps. I'm
>willing to take Michael Herr's word for it, YMMV.
>
I'm not. Civilian were never issued weapons in Viet Nam. If they found
them or were given them, it took training to be able to operate them.
>As far as to whether Scott Abraham did, that's a separate question. But
>since you brought it up, I'm willing to take his word for it - I don't see
>any reason not to.
I do. Scott is lying. I've said this before, and he hasn't answered,
even though he reads every post on this newsgroup.
Hollywood Horvath
>
>I went a stinky, hot, nasty place, where I inhaled tons of Agent Orange that
>combined with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome caused me to flip out on the Evil
>Liddle Bitch and invent all kinds of delusional charges.
Agent Orange is not toxic, and has no effect on humans. I use it on my
lawn.
Urp Urp Urp.
Bob Lee
> Agent Orange is not toxic, and has no effect on humans. I use it on my
> lawn.
Given the information available about dioxin, this explains a lot.
> Urp Urp Urp.
Yep. Dementia
Bob
Vail - non-carcinogenic
terry morse
> Bob Lee wrote:
> <snip>
> > But then, I fail to see what bearing *any* of that has
> > on whether the people at Whistler had a right or a reason to take advantage
> > of his largess and treat him like an asshole.
>
> Y'know, Bob, that's the interesting thing about it. Of all the folks
> that were there, only one has asserted that he was "taken advantage of"
> and treated poorly. I do not deny anyone the right to feel how they
> feel, yet again, sayin' it doesn't necesssarily make it so.
>
> If one might, for perspective's sake, set aside the issue of the
> infamous Sun Peaks tix; the rest of the whole 2 weeks was characterized
> by a lot of skiing, a lot of partying, and a lot of tomfoolery. Yhere
> was a lot of respect and gratitude expressed to Scott for bringing up
> skis for folks to try, arranging parties and stuff. In my opinion, that
> does not constitute taking advantage.
>
I'll add my two cents as another witness to the goings on at Whistler.
Neither Mary nor I noticed anything that we interpreted as poor treatment
of anyone at the time. It certainly may have happened, but it didn't
happen when we were around.
Regarding the radio incident, it seemed like good natured teasing at the
time. As it went on, I sensed by his voice that Scott was getting annoyed,
so I broke into the conversation and told him where we were.
After that, we did actually witness some poor treatment. It was Scott's
string of obscenities directed at Anthea. We cleared out as soon as that
started.
These are the facts as we witnessed them without judgement.
terry
--
Palo Alto, CA
Park City, UT
http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/
Rick Knowlan
> Rick Knowlan wrote:
>
> > I have followed this topic, joining in occasionally, but mostly lurking. My
> > observation is that you didn't need to be at Whistler to understand what this
> > was all about, because it wasn't about events there--it was about Scott's
> > conduct on RSA. I may have missed a few posts,
>
> You miss a lot more than just a few posts. As much as I hate to step in
> front of anyone consumed by blood lust, I'd like to point out a few things
> here.
Are you suggesting my post was motivated by "blood lust"? You misread my intentions
and, I think, the tone of my post.
> - This thread was about the events at Whistler. Tig's original post
> addressed only that, as did my reply. Feel free to jump in and rip Scott a
> new one, but you aren't following the previous posts. There've been plenty
> of threads/posts about Scott's conduct in rsa, but Tig and I were
> discussing the Whistler events.
Agreed. Sorry I was not more precise in my previous post. I was referring not only
to this thread, but to the many related posts on RSA in the past month. They have
been generated by the tone and frequency of Scott's posts. The Whistler event was a
culminating incident that unleashed the dynamic, but IMHO the posts are the cause of
most of the dysfunctional war we have seen here.
> > For anyone who really considers Scott a friend, I think you owed it to him to
> > tell him he was way out of line. That's one of the things that makes somebody
> > a true friend.
>
> Look, I have certainly been in more protracted, heated, angry, and deeply
> felt flame wars with Scott you have - going back for years, now. I've told
> him when I thought he was out of line since way before you ever showed up
> in rsa. He and I have gone around viciously about his Olin/K2 ho-dom, dead
> snowboarders, killer chicken, and a bunch of other stuff.
Good for you. Did you do it because you considered him your friend or because you
were on opposite sides of an issue?
> My point is, I
> don't need any advice from you like that above paragraph. Screw telling
> other people what they *ought* to do to support *your* point of view.
So are you saying don't agree with the premise of my comment, that you don't need
advice from a newbie, or just "blow me"?
Bob Lee
> Are you suggesting my post was motivated by "blood lust"? You misread my
> intentions and, I think, the tone of my post.
Fair enough. I'll be more careful.
[...]
> > Look, I have certainly been in more protracted, heated, angry, and deeply
> > felt flame wars with Scott you have - going back for years, now. I've told
> > him when I thought he was out of line since way before you ever showed up
> > in rsa. He and I have gone around viciously about his Olin/K2 ho-dom, dead
> > snowboarders, killer chicken, and a bunch of other stuff.
>
> Good for you. Did you do it because you considered him your friend or because
> you were on opposite sides of an issue?
I did it because it was fun.
> > My point is, I
> > don't need any advice from you like that above paragraph. Screw telling
> > other people what they *ought* to do to support *your* point of view.
>
> So are you saying don't agree with the premise of my comment, that you don't
> need advice from a newbie, or just "blow me"?
Do I have to pick just one? ;^)
Bob
Vail - if you have to pick only one
XlMeister
>David *Boots* Hobbs <bo...@ironlight.net> wrote:
>>On 30 Apr 1999, Hollywood Horvath wrote:
>>>
>>> I do. Scott is lying. I've said this before, and he hasn't answered,
>>> even though he reads every post on this newsgroup.
>>
>> I agree 100%, he will not answer the
>>tough questions, you know, because they are all lies, slander, attacks,
>>etc. But, then again, my mom didn't live close enough to a base for me to
>>get lessons in advanced mayhem from the Seals when I was a kid. I think I
>>missed out.
>
>You didn't miss out on anything important, if you've been reading reading
>the news from Littleton.
As a "newbie" I was wondering what you meant when you asked someone else "is
this being civil?"
I saw that post the same day I saw you whine-bagging about some alleged
"physical threat" to you.
Must be that one-way-mirror thing again, the one you use to ferret out
faggots and show other signs of modelimng for us all what true "civility" is
all about.
I'm still a little puzzled, though, as to what your comments have to do with
alpine skiing or having fun. Is "Urp Urp Urp"ing all over other folks your
version of alpine skiing, or your version of fun?
Puzzled,
XlMeister
Hollywood Horvath
>On 30 Apr 1999, Hollywood Horvath wrote:
>>
>> I do. Scott is lying. I've said this before, and he hasn't answered,
>> even though he reads every post on this newsgroup.
>
> I agree 100%, he will not answer the
>tough questions, you know, because they are all lies, slander, attacks,
>etc. But, then again, my mom didn't live close enough to a base for me to
>get lessons in advanced mayhem from the Seals when I was a kid. I think I
>missed out.
You didn't miss out on anything important, if you've been reading reading
the news from Littleton.
--
Hollywood Horvath
>Hollywood Horvath only knew the half of it:
>
>> Dioxin was eliminated from Agent Orange in 1968,...
>
>Nope - Agent Orange is/was by definition made up of a 1:1 ratio of 2,4-T
>(which as you seem to know is dioxin-free)
I realize you meant 2-4-D.
> and 2,4,5-T (which is the part
>that had dioxin in it as a by-product). Agent Orange (with BOTH 2,4-D and
>2,4,5-T) was used in operations in Vietnam though 1970. 2,4,5,-T was in
>production through 1979. You can confirm all this at:
>http://www.yahoo.com/
>
I don't have to. I made this in the lab. 2-4-5-T is a common herbicide
used by farmers on corn.
>
>> Deal with it. I use Ortho Weed-Be-Gone on my lawn, as do many
>> people. The main ingredient is 2-4-D which is also the main ingredient in
>> Agent Orange.
>
>I think you're getting ripped off if they told you you're getting Agent
>Orange. Maybe you can get your money back. Agent Orange is 50% 2,4,5-T.
I already know that.
>Vail - no herbicides, the runs are cleared by hand
Agent Orange has NEVER been found to harmful to humans. Never. Never.
Even despite years of intense investigation.
Farmers still use it. Homeowners still use it.
Rick Knowlan
> Agent Orange has NEVER been found to harmful to humans. Never. Never.
> Even despite years of intense investigation.
>
> Farmers still use it. Homeowners still use it.
>
And HH still wears it.
Scott Abraham
>
>
> >David *Boots* Hobbs <bo...@ironlight.net> wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>> I do. Scott is lying. I've said this before, and he hasn't answered,
> >>> even though he reads every post on this newsgroup.
Boots, I don't read every post to this newsgroup.
Killfile is up to fifteen and counting.
Had to catch this out of one of Bert's post.
So just for the record, Boots, I havn't told a single lie.
YOU made up a lie, presented it as truth, and then wonder why I don't bother to
answer the original lie.
Basically, the tactic is old fashioned "When did you stop beating your wife?".
On the other hand, you and Anthea have been caught in lies, with proof, and you
keep bleating.
Bleat on.
I can't hear you.
Ah, killfiles.
Or take your own advice: you told me to shut up and stop torturing the group
once Anthea killfiled me.
You are permanently killfiled, so shut the fuck up already.
Scott
Vail: "What? What did you say?"
Hollywood Horvath
>
I wrote this part and I'm forwarding this message to
scot...@earthlink.net:
>> >>>
>> >>> I do. Scott is lying. I've said this before, and he hasn't answered,
>> >>> even though he reads every post on this newsgroup.
>
>Boots, I don't read every post to this newsgroup.
>Killfile is up to fifteen and counting.
>Had to catch this out of one of Bert's post.
>So just for the record, Boots, I havn't told a single lie.
Can you say, "Urp Urp Urp," sealboy?
XlMeister
Still missing one of your balls?
Maybe if you "Urp! Urp! Upp!" a little more, someone will take pity on you
and retrieve it for you ...
XlMeister
Adrenochrome
Scott's trained puppet had a busy weekend, and managed to write:
>Interesting view of "civil discourse." Hear you got an e-mail from the
folks
>at www.vix.com/menmag/ about your version of "civil discourse." So that
>nobody misses out, here's a copy of it ...
>
>XlMeister
>
>================================
>
>Dear David,
>
<private mail snipped>
Thanks for weighing in.
--
Vail-The end justifies the means.
XlMeister
Adrenochrome does his imitation of a parrot ....
<7gkbh0$i6l$1...@garnet.mint.net>...
>
>Scott's trained puppet had a busy weekend, and managed to write:
>
Hey, Adenochrome,
Ever think of thinking for yourself? Or is that beyond your capabilities?
Try having an original thought.
Oh, BTW, thanks for the warm welcome to RSA.
XlMeister
XlMeister
>
<snip!>
>
That's right, *Boots* Keep fanning the flames! More gas! More gas!
XlMeister
Scott Abraham
XlMeister wrote:
Urp! Urp! Urp!
Damn, I'm getting good at balancing this ball on my nose.
But since you quoted Team Touron's head dumbfuck, I hit the reference, and
found that he was still trying to figure out a link between me having a
relationship with a bunch of SEALS and his good friend Anthea being an
EVIL LIDDLE BITCH who trained him in advanced techniques of character
assasination, slander, libel, lying, and rodeo sex.
I hate to take his liddle toy away, but here is a clue, which I shall
offer so he can finally shut the fuck up.
I said that I was trained by SEALS, not that I took SEAL training.
Absolutely truthful.
I am a 1970 graduate of Coronado High School in Coronado, CA. Lived there
from 67-70, kept visiting after that for some dumb reason.
My mother was training film librarian at NAVPHIBASE, Coronado, CA.
I worked for two summers for a civilian contractor on the base.
I surfed and worked out at the base gym, including the boxing ring.
Damned if I didn't run into SEALS there, in the water, and around my
home's dinner table on a frequent basis, around my girlfriend's dinner
table on a frequent basis.
I dated the daughter of a SEAL team CPO (indeed, I gave her a call about
something else the other day, we had a good laugh about you and your
dumbfuckness, along with a warm remembrance of just what a good man her
father was, and how much he gave me). I cut a former team commander's
lawn, played hoops with his son.
Coronado was a small town in those days, had to take a ferry from San
Diego or drive around through IB.
Ergo, you stupid slandering lying dumbfuck no class dickhead faggot
drug-addled snowboarder, it is entirely conceivable that several active
SEALS took an interest in this poor fatherless lad who ended up with a
draft number of 3, and spent a considerable amount of time doing what men
frequently do for boys: teaching them to defend themselves in a very
dangerous world, especially when there was a good chance that said lad was
going to get his dumb ass drafted and end up in a very nasty place, where
a bunch of snowboarder wannabes would try to kill said dumb ass.
But keep looking for another hole in my life story, so you can continue to
try to deflect attention from the very real lies you and Anthea and Mike
and the rest of Team Dweeb have been telling.
Oh, yeah.
ObSKI content: Every single SEAL I ever knew loved to ski, skied K2's and
OLINS with MARKER bindings.
Urp! Urp! Urp!
Scott
ps: I've known OJ since 1976, and he trained me, too. I also met Ted
Bundy, and he trained me, too.
EuroSnow
>from 67-70,
And if used Olin's, they were some of the first.
Hollywood Horvath
>
>I said that I was trained by SEALS, not that I took SEAL training.
>Absolutely truthful.
You said that you had SEAL training, liar.
>My mother was training film librarian at NAVPHIBASE, Coronado, CA.
You had a mother? This may be the only truthful thing you say.
>I worked for two summers for a civilian contractor on the base.
Translation: He cut grass.
>I surfed and worked out at the base gym, including the boxing ring.
Translation: He tried to surf and work out, between donut runs.
>Damned if I didn't run into SEALS there, in the water, and around my
>home's dinner table on a frequent basis, around my girlfriend's dinner
>table on a frequent basis.
Translation: He saw some SEALS, once.
>I dated the daughter of a SEAL team CPO (indeed, I gave her a call about
>something else the other day, we had a good laugh about you and your
>dumbfuckness, along with a warm remembrance of just what a good man her
>father was, and how much he gave me).
Translation: He saw a girl who's father was a SEAL, and tried to call her.
> I cut a former team commander's
>lawn, played hoops with his son.
Translation: He worked for someone who paid him to cut grass on the base.
>Ergo, you stupid slandering lying dumbfuck no class dickhead faggot
>drug-addled snowboarder, it is entirely conceivable that several active
>SEALS took an interest in this poor fatherless lad who ended up with a
>draft number of 3, and spent a considerable amount of time doing what men
>frequently do for boys: teaching them to defend themselves in a very
>dangerous world, especially when there was a good chance that said lad was
>going to get his dumb ass drafted and end up in a very nasty place, where
>a bunch of snowboarder wannabes would try to kill said dumb ass.
Translation: He is rambling. He couldn't be drafted with his bad eyesight,
but you're not supposed to know that.
>But keep looking for another hole in my life story, so you can continue to
>try to deflect attention from the very real lies you and Anthea and Mike
>and the rest of Team Dweeb have been telling.
>Oh, yeah.
>ObSKI content: Every single SEAL I ever knew loved to ski, skied K2's and
>OLINS with MARKER bindings.
Oh yeah. Me too.
>
>Urp! Urp! Urp!
>
>Scott
>
>ps: I've known OJ since 1976, and he trained me, too. I also met Ted
>Bundy, and he trained me, too.
And I once kissed Stein Eriksen's ass.
Winston
scot...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> XlMeister wrote:
>
> > David *Boots* Hobbs just keeps writing and writing ... CAN'T let go ...
> > >
> > <snip!>
> > >
> >
> > That's right, *Boots* Keep fanning the flames! More gas! More gas!
>
> Urp! Urp! Urp!
> Damn, I'm getting good at balancing this ball on my nose.
>
As your boyfriend said Scott "That's right, Fatman Keep fanning the flames!
More gas! More gas!"
--
Winston
scot...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> XlMeister wrote:
>
> > David *Boots* Hobbs just keeps writing and writing ... CAN'T let go ...
> > >
> > <snip!>
> > >
> >
> > That's right, *Boots* Keep fanning the flames! More gas! More gas!
>
> Urp! Urp! Urp!
> Damn, I'm getting good at balancing this ball on my nose.
> found that he was still trying to figure out a link between me having a
> relationship with a bunch of SEALS and his good friend Anthea being an
> EVIL LIDDLE BITCH who trained him in advanced techniques of character
> assasination, slander, libel, lying, and rodeo sex.
I though you said you only had relationship with sheep? or is that SHEEP?
> I hate to take his liddle toy away, but here is a clue, which I shall
> offer so he can finally shut the fuck up.
> I said that I was trained by SEALS, not that I took SEAL training.
Is that why you are fat, slimy on the outside and smell like smegma?
> Absolutely truthful.
Really?
> I am a 1970 graduate of Coronado High School in Coronado, CA. Lived there
> from 67-70, kept visiting after that for some dumb reason.
Not having any friends is a good enough reason. Smegma breath sure doesn't
help either.
> My mother was training film librarian at NAVPHIBASE, Coronado, CA.
> I worked for two summers for a civilian contractor on the base.
> I surfed and worked out at the base gym, including the boxing ring.
> Damned if I didn't run into SEALS there, in the water, and around my
> home's dinner table on a frequent basis, around my girlfriend's dinner
> table on a frequent basis.
You ate SEALS?!?? How did they prepare them when you saw them on the dinner
table for the first time? I didn't know seals were that abundant in CA.
> I dated the daughter of a SEAL team CPO (indeed, I gave her a call about
> something else the other day, we had a good laugh about you and your
> dumbfuckness, along with a warm remembrance of just what a good man her
> father was, and how much he gave me). I cut a former team commander's
> lawn, played hoops with his son.
Did he "blow you" away?
> Coronado was a small town in those days, had to take a ferry from San
> Diego or drive around through IB.
> Ergo, you stupid slandering lying dumbfuck no class dickhead faggot
> drug-addled snowboarder, it is entirely conceivable that several active
> SEALS took an interest in this poor fatherless lad who ended up with a
> draft number of 3, and spent a considerable amount of time doing what men
> frequently do for boys: teaching them to defend themselves in a very
> dangerous world, especially when there was a good chance that said lad was
> going to get his dumb ass drafted and end up in a very nasty place, where
> a bunch of snowboarder wannabes would try to kill said dumb ass.
> But keep looking for another hole in my life story, so you can continue to
> try to deflect attention from the very real lies you and Anthea and Mike
> and the rest of Team Dweeb have been telling.
> Oh, yeah.
> ObSKI content: Every single SEAL I ever knew loved to ski, skied K2's and
> OLINS with MARKER bindings.
>
> Urp! Urp! Urp!
Guess you were reaised by seals.
Urp! Urp! Urp!
>
> Scott
>
> ps: I've known OJ since 1976, and he trained me, too. I also met Ted
> Bundy, and he trained me, too.
You were trained well since you are so much like them. Both were overweight
and fucked up in the head, the only difference is that you may have gotten a
fuck in the head.
Bev
> Yeah, you were going to get drafted, sure. Dream on.
Short interrupt here...
It's a generational Cold War thing. Until The Draft was stopped, it was never
far from the thoughts of anybody who might be subject to it or anybody who had a
friend or family member who might be subject to it. Until a guy was 26 or
married, he could get a nasty letter at any time that would throw any previous
plans he might have had down the dumper and might end up getting him killed.
Even if a guy wasn't 1A, there was no guarantee that he might still not be
needed if things got bad enough. Guess the blind didn't have to worry about
themselves, but they probably had friends who did. Remember, during the 60s
people who could afford it were building bomb shelters in their back yards,
sometimes secretly so that their neighbors wouldn't know and try to break in
when It Happened.
OK, carry on....
--
Cheers,
Bev
Bev
> school. You got a draft card, and a lottery number. (Maybe I should
> scan mine, and post it.)
>
> Nobody in my town built bomb shelters. That was only on TV.
Possibly because nobody in his right mind would waste a bomb on your town...
Matter of fact, in 1961 my boss would sneak away from the office to supervise
its construction. Ultimately his boss found out about it and the guy suddenly
disappeared.
So single males not in college don't count? I didn't say WERE DRAFTED, jerk, I
said (implied, actually; sorry) that this was a constant gnawing at the back of
the mind. When the mechanism is there, and THEY get to decide who goes and who
stays, anybody who doesn't worry is probably too mentally deficient to be accepted
anyway.
Vail: Do you suppose 5.0 will have killfiles?
--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Non illegitimi carborundum.
Richard Walsh
Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gqv2r$e1f$7...@206.244.73.185>...(snippage of draftage)
>
>Oh Bullshit! The only people drafted were single males, who didn't attend
> school. You got a draft card, and a lottery number. (Maybe I should
>scan mine, and post it.)
>
acceptable for either the Army or the Marine Corps. Not wanting either,
I exercised an option that I was working on with the Navy. I sleazed my
way into an appointment to USNR Officer Candidate School between
my junior and senior years in college. Went the first summer. Returned
to my senior year, worked in a ski shop, and taught skiing (I mention
this so I won't be quite so far off-topic). In March of 1967, while teaching
skiing, I took some air, was hit by a rug-rat out of no where, landed,
rolled and broke my foot. Some time later I had to report to a Navy doc.
He asked me if I really wanted to be in the Navy. I replied, "No sir". A
couple month later I had an honorable discharge, convenience of the
government. A fortuitous break, I say.
At any rate, I had friends who went to 'Nam and never came back. I also
had friends come home with only part of what they left with, both
physically and mentally. I had friends come home completely screwy.
I had friends come home with habits they still have. And friends who
still wake up sweating and screaming in the night. I was EXTREMELY
lucky.
Usually I ignore you, HH, on Tony2Turn's advice which I usually find
extremely sage. This time, you tweaked my chain just a little too much.
Don't care for that time being made light of. Take a walk along that
black marble wall in Washington sometime and talk to some of the
vets you'll find there. After that feel free to find the Washington Hooters
and enjoy a drink, you'll probably need it.
>Nobody in my town built bomb shelters. That was only on TV.
>
Now here, though I've seen some of those shelters, I agree that building
them was a paranoid and stupid thing to do. When I was in the Navy, we
learned what to do when you are at ground zero of a nuclear blast,
"Bend over, grab your ankles and firmly kiss your ass goodbye."
RW
>
Hollywood Horvath
>
>Short interrupt here...
>
>It's a generational Cold War thing. Until The Draft was stopped, it was never
>far from the thoughts of anybody who might be subject to it or anybody who had a
>friend or family member who might be subject to it. Until a guy was 26 or
>married, he could get a nasty letter at any time that would throw any previous
>plans he might have had down the dumper and might end up getting him killed.
>Even if a guy wasn't 1A, there was no guarantee that he might still not be
>needed if things got bad enough. Guess the blind didn't have to worry about
>themselves, but they probably had friends who did. Remember, during the 60s
>people who could afford it were building bomb shelters in their back yards,
>sometimes secretly so that their neighbors wouldn't know and try to break in
>when It Happened.
>
Oh Bullshit! The only people drafted were single males, who didn't attend
school. You got a draft card, and a lottery number. (Maybe I should
scan mine, and post it.)
Nobody in my town built bomb shelters. That was only on TV.
XlMeister
You've got it! You've discovered the answer!
Bev wrote in message <373103FE...@ktb.net>...
>Matter of fact, in 1961 my boss would sneak away from the office to
supervise
>its construction. Ultimately his boss found out about it and the guy
suddenly
>disappeared.
Once upon a time there was a boarder -- an actual human being -- who rode
too close to a computer ...
got absorbed into it ...
got transformed into hovarth.net
and became a "stalking bot" that exists only in cyber-space.
He pulled it off quite well. People would engage him in conversations, and
everything. Nobody knew. But nobody had actually seen him in real life ...
for good reason ...
the Tibetan Masters in the "Tibetan Book of the Dead" had it right
all along.
The demon does not actually EXIST.
he is merely a figment of your imagination
XlMeister
Vail: unraveling the mysteries of the Universe ...
XlMeister
>So, your military didn't draft people with mental problems?
>
>hmmmm.
Naw ... just sent them all to Australia and told them they were skiiers ...
XlMeister
XlMeister
Richard Walsh wrote in message <9259606...@news.remarQ.com>...
>
Thank you, RW!
It was a tough time, something many men still live with nightly.
XlMeister
dwh...@pagesz.net
>
>rolled and broke my foot. Some time later I had to report to a Navy doc.
>He asked me if I really wanted to be in the Navy. I replied, "No sir". A
>couple month later I had an honorable discharge, convenience of the
>government. A fortuitous break, I say.
>
Had a friend who was a Draft Board Doctor. He told me that towards the
end of the war he would ask people "Do you want to go to Vietnam?". You'd
be suprised at how few of them said no.
David 'Sit over here on the Group W bench' Hockenberger
dwh...@pagesz.net
Vail - sign up here for your skiing defferments
Richard Walsh
Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gtbru$fe4$1...@206.244.73.185>...
>Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote:
>>Hollywood Horvath wrote:
(mercy snip)
>>Matter of fact, in 1961 my boss would sneak away from the office to
supervise
>>its construction. Ultimately his boss found out about it and the guy
suddenly
>>disappeared.
>
>
>Total bullshit. There was no Viet Nam war in 1961. (Well there was, but
>the French were fighting it.) The Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't until 1962,
>and then the advertisements for bomb shelters came out.
>
Aha, Grasshopper, there was McCarthy-ism in the 1950's and the the
very best plans for bomb shelters were offered in _Popular Mechanics_
of that era. There certainly were bomb shelters built in the '50's and
early '60's. Bomb shelters were NOT the result of paranoia over the
Viet Nam War, that was long ago and far away. Bomb shelters were
the result of encroaching Communism in Europe in the late '40's and '50's
Europe was MUCH closer to home to Americans both physically and
emotionally.
Oh shit!! Not only am I responding to Horvath drivel, I posting off-topic.
My bad.
RW
>
>--
vail... and I'm gettin' sick of that anoying tag line too.
Richard Walsh
with you, but probably not.
Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gtcf5$fe4$2...@206.244.73.185>...
>"Richard Walsh" <mist...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gqv2r$e1f$7...@206.244.73.185>...
>>
>>>Oh Bullshit! The only people drafted were single males, who didn't
attend
>>> school. You got a draft card, and a lottery number. (Maybe I should
>>>scan mine, and post it.)
>>>
>>Wrongo. I was *drafted* in 1965 while still in college. I was judged to be
>>acceptable for either the Army or the Marine Corps. Not wanting either,
>
>I've never heard of the draft board taking anyone who was in college. Do
>you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
>
Didn't talk to anyone at the draft board. Talked to a rather large Marine
Corps Sergeant at the induction center in Albany (sort of like Whitehall
Street but further north, remember Alice's Restaurant). He told me that
I was fit, etc. and would be getting a notice *soon*. And you're partly
right, I never actually got a notice because I joined the Navy instead.
It seems that if you spent a little too much time in college and didn't
receive your degree, the draft board would look askance at your
student deferment. My usual schedule in college was to attend Fall
semester and two sessions of Summer school and take the Spring
semester off to work in a ski shop, teach skiing, and ski (said this
partly to stay on topic).
>
>>I exercised an option that I was working on with the Navy. I sleazed my
>>way into an appointment to USNR Officer Candidate School between
>>my junior and senior years in college.
>
>Sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit. You have to be in the
>Military to go to OCS. If you were in college, how did you get into OCS?
>
It's real easy if you THINK about it. It's called the RESERVE. Like the
National Guard only all the branches have a RESERVE. Look at my
post again, I said USNR(eserve) OCS. People even today are in
college AND in the military reserve.
>
>Went the first summer. Returned
>>to my senior year, worked in a ski shop, and taught skiing (I mention
>>this so I won't be quite so far off-topic). In March of 1967, while
teaching
>>skiing, I took some air, was hit by a rug-rat out of no where, landed,
>>rolled and broke my foot. Some time later I had to report to a Navy doc.
>>He asked me if I really wanted to be in the Navy. I replied, "No sir". A
>>couple month later I had an honorable discharge, convenience of the
>>government. A fortuitous break, I say.
>
>A broken bone, or a medical problem will get you a medical discharge,
>which is a general discharge, not an honorable discharge.
>
I believe you'll find that most discharges are *honorable* and that
reasons can vary. A medical is usually given for someone who has
a medical problem on active duty. Since I was not on active duty and
not currently injured, the Navy chose "convenience of the government"
as the reason to discharge me. If they had given me a medical, they
might have had to take care of me if my injury became chronic.
>If you were in college, how were you eligible for a discharge?
>
Gawd, you're thick. I was in the RESERVE. No matter where you
are, when you are all done with the reserve, you get a discharge.
>How about posting your DD-214 form so we can check this out?
>
Are you shitting me? Those papers are buried so deep in my archives
that it would take a year to find them, if in fact they still exist.
>
>>
>>Usually I ignore you, HH, on Tony2Turn's advice which I usually find
>>extremely sage. This time, you tweaked my chain just a little too much.
>>Don't care for that time being made light of. Take a walk along that
>>black marble wall in Washington sometime
>
>Been there done that. I can post a picture of myself next to the wall, if
>you want to see it.
>
If all you brought back from that experience was a picture, I truly
feel sorry for you.
RW
>
vail.... and now for that annoying tag line again.
Bev
> I've never heard of the draft board taking anyone who was in college. Do
> you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
At first you could get college deferments. Later on it was deemed elitist,
forcing only those who were too poor or stupid to get into college into the
military, and they were dropped. You could always get a deferment if you were
doing defense-related work.
--
Cheers,
Bev
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the straps.
Hollywood Horvath
>> school. You got a draft card, and a lottery number. (Maybe I should
>> scan mine, and post it.)
>>
>
>
>its construction. Ultimately his boss found out about it and the guy suddenly
>disappeared.
Total bullshit. There was no Viet Nam war in 1961. (Well there was, but
the French were fighting it.) The Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't until 1962,
and then the advertisements for bomb shelters came out.
Hollywood Horvath
>
>Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gqv2r$e1f$7...@206.244.73.185>...
>
>> school. You got a draft card, and a lottery number. (Maybe I should
>>scan mine, and post it.)
>>
>acceptable for either the Army or the Marine Corps. Not wanting either,
I've never heard of the draft board taking anyone who was in college. Do
you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
>I exercised an option that I was working on with the Navy. I sleazed my
>way into an appointment to USNR Officer Candidate School between
>my junior and senior years in college.
Sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit. You have to be in the
Military to go to OCS. If you were in college, how did you get into OCS?
Went the first summer. Returned
>to my senior year, worked in a ski shop, and taught skiing (I mention
>this so I won't be quite so far off-topic). In March of 1967, while teaching
>skiing, I took some air, was hit by a rug-rat out of no where, landed,
>rolled and broke my foot. Some time later I had to report to a Navy doc.
>He asked me if I really wanted to be in the Navy. I replied, "No sir". A
>couple month later I had an honorable discharge, convenience of the
>government. A fortuitous break, I say.
A broken bone, or a medical problem will get you a medical discharge,
which is a general discharge, not an honorable discharge.
If you were in college, how were you eligible for a discharge?
How about posting your DD-214 form so we can check this out?
>
>Usually I ignore you, HH, on Tony2Turn's advice which I usually find
>extremely sage. This time, you tweaked my chain just a little too much.
>Don't care for that time being made light of. Take a walk along that
>black marble wall in Washington sometime
Been there done that. I can post a picture of myself next to the wall, if
you want to see it.
Hollywood Horvath
>>>Wrongo. I was *drafted* in 1965 while still in college. I was judged to be
>>>acceptable for either the Army or the Marine Corps. Not wanting either,
>>
>>I've never heard of the draft board taking anyone who was in college. Do
>>you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
>>
>Didn't talk to anyone at the draft board. Talked to a rather large Marine
>Corps Sergeant at the induction center in Albany (sort of like Whitehall
>Street but further north, remember Alice's Restaurant). He told me that
>I was fit, etc. and would be getting a notice *soon*. And you're partly
>right, I never actually got a notice because I joined the Navy instead.
>
So you weren't really drafted, and you never talked to the draft board.
You stretch the truth more than Scott, or Slick Willy.
>>
>>>I exercised an option that I was working on with the Navy. I sleazed my
>>>way into an appointment to USNR Officer Candidate School between
>>>my junior and senior years in college.
>>
>>Sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit. You have to be in the
>>Military to go to OCS. If you were in college, how did you get into OCS?
>>
>It's real easy if you THINK about it. It's called the RESERVE. Like the
>National Guard only all the branches have a RESERVE. Look at my
>post again, I said USNR(eserve) OCS. People even today are in
>college AND in the military reserve.
>>
You didn't say that. I know all about the reserves. I took ROTC, which
stands for RESERVE Officer Training Corps.
>>
>>A broken bone, or a medical problem will get you a medical discharge,
>>which is a general discharge, not an honorable discharge.
>>
>I believe you'll find that most discharges are *honorable* and that
>reasons can vary.
True. However, a medical discharge is not an honorable discharge.
> A medical is usually given for someone who has
>a medical problem on active duty.
Not true. A medical discharge can be given to anyone.
> Since I was not on active duty and
>not currently injured, the Navy chose "convenience of the government"
>as the reason to discharge me. If they had given me a medical, they
>might have had to take care of me if my injury became chronic.
Now that is bullshit. You weren't injured on duty. You were just lucky if
you got an honorable discharge. The doc knew that, during this time, many
places wouldn't hire someone with a less than honorable discharge.
>
>>How about posting your DD-214 form so we can check this out?
>>
>Are you shitting me? Those papers are buried so deep in my archives
>that it would take a year to find them, if in fact they still exist.
>>
How conveeeeeeeenient!
>>
>>Been there done that. I can post a picture of myself next to the wall, if
>>you want to see it.
>>
>If all you brought back from that experience was a picture, I truly
>feel sorry for you.
I also got a shirt from Hooters.
Richard Walsh
Sorta like, "it feels so good when I stop hitting myself
over the head."
Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gui5o$qse$1...@206.244.73.185>...
>"Richard Walsh" <mist...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>
>>>>Wrongo. I was *drafted* in 1965 while still in college. I was judged to
be
>>>>acceptable for either the Army or the Marine Corps. Not wanting either,
>>>
>>>I've never heard of the draft board taking anyone who was in college. Do
>>>you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
>>>
>>Didn't talk to anyone at the draft board. Talked to a rather large Marine
>>Corps Sergeant at the induction center in Albany (sort of like Whitehall
>>Street but further north, remember Alice's Restaurant). He told me that
>>I was fit, etc. and would be getting a notice *soon*. And you're partly
>>right, I never actually got a notice because I joined the Navy instead.
>>
>
>So you weren't really drafted, and you never talked to the draft board.
>You stretch the truth more than Scott, or Slick Willy.
>
Never stretched anything. I put (*) marks around the word *drafted* and
then offered complete explanation of what took place. I took on faith
the fact that being completely inducted into the military was imminent
since I had passed the physical, mental and emotional tests with
such flying colors, I sidestepped into the Navy.
>>>
>>>>I exercised an option that I was working on with the Navy. I sleazed my
>>>>way into an appointment to USNR Officer Candidate School between
>>>>my junior and senior years in college.
>>>
>>>Sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit. You have to be in the
>>>Military to go to OCS. If you were in college, how did you get into OCS?
>>>
>>It's real easy if you THINK about it. It's called the RESERVE. Like the
>>National Guard only all the branches have a RESERVE. Look at my
>>post again, I said USNR(eserve) OCS. People even today are in
>>college AND in the military reserve.
>>>
>
>You didn't say that. I know all about the reserves. I took ROTC, which
>stands for RESERVE Officer Training Corps.
>
Yeah, I also took ROTC at the first college I went to. I would like to point
out that (at least in the early '60's) that was handled like an ordinary
college course, you NEVER joined any military outfit to take the course.
Only on or after graduation would you be INDUCTED into the military and
receive a COMMISSION as an officer and a gentleman. Something you
could only aspire to.
By the way, you can take ROTC as a college course and not be in any
military outfit, OR you can be in college, also in the National Guard (or
other Reserve outfit) AND still be taking ROTC, as a college course.
>>>
>>>A broken bone, or a medical problem will get you a medical discharge,
>>>which is a general discharge, not an honorable discharge.
>>>
>>I believe you'll find that most discharges are *honorable* and that
>>reasons can vary.
>
>True. However, a medical discharge is not an honorable discharge.
>
Unfortunately, you could be right since I've never seen a medical discharge.
>> A medical is usually given for someone who has
>>a medical problem on active duty.
>
>Not true. A medical discharge can be given to anyone.
>
>> Since I was not on active duty and
>>not currently injured, the Navy chose "convenience of the government"
>>as the reason to discharge me. If they had given me a medical, they
>>might have had to take care of me if my injury became chronic.
>
>Now that is bullshit. You weren't injured on duty. You were just lucky if
>you got an honorable discharge. The doc knew that, during this time, many
>places wouldn't hire someone with a less than honorable discharge.
>
It would appear that the choice was to be discharged in some way or to
stay in the Navy. Yes, employment was difficult if your discharge was
less than honorable. However, the reason for a medical discharge
could have resulted in a Purple Heart and that certainly would stand
you in good stead with a prospective employer. I certainly feel that I
was extremely lucky to have been discharged without having gone to
Viet Nam (though I would have if ordered), and I've stated why I feel
lucky and humble (on that subject at least) to have avoided military
duty during those times.
>>
>>>How about posting your DD-214 form so we can check this out?
>>>
>>Are you shitting me? Those papers are buried so deep in my archives
>>that it would take a year to find them, if in fact they still exist.
>>>
>
>How conveeeeeeeenient!
>
Yeah, well I didn't intend to dwell on the past until you tweaked me.
Good troll.
>>>
>>>Been there done that. I can post a picture of myself next to the wall,
if
>>>you want to see it.
>>>
>>If all you brought back from that experience was a picture, I truly
>>feel sorry for you.
>
>I also got a shirt from Hooters.
>
Lucky you.
RW
vail.... for the eternally lucky.
Hollywood Horvath
>Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gui5o$qse$1...@206.244.73.185>...
>>"Richard Walsh" <mist...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Wrongo. I was *drafted* in 1965 while still in college. I was judged to
>be
>>>>>acceptable for either the Army or the Marine Corps.
>>
>>You stretch the truth more than Scott, or Slick Willy.
>>
>Never stretched anything. I put (*) marks around the word *drafted* and
>then offered complete explanation of what took place. I took on faith
>the fact that being completely inducted into the military was imminent
>since I had passed the physical, mental and emotional tests with
>such flying colors, I sidestepped into the Navy.
You worded your response so people would think you were drafted, when in
fact, you never were. Do you know what the meaning of "is" is?
>out that (at least in the early '60's) that was handled like an ordinary
>college course, you NEVER joined any military outfit to take the course.
>Only on or after graduation would you be INDUCTED into the military and
>receive a COMMISSION as an officer and a gentleman. Something you
>could only aspire to.
>
ROTC candidates aren't inducted into the military, they are commisioned
into the military. If you took OCS you would know that.
I don't understand your last sentence. I was commisioned after completing
ROTC, and completed 22 years in the reserves, and retired as an officer.
During your third year of college, you were under contract, and paid for
attending classes, and technically in the military. The main reason I
signed up for ROTC was for that whopping $100 a month stipend.
>>True. However, a medical discharge is not an honorable discharge.
>>
>Unfortunately, you could be right since I've never seen a medical discharge.
I doubt if you've seen a DD-214. The only difference is in the box that
says "conditions of seperation."
>
>>> A medical is usually given for someone who has
>>>a medical problem on active duty.
>>
>>Not true. A medical discharge can be given to anyone.
>>
>>> Since I was not on active duty and
>>>not currently injured, the Navy chose "convenience of the government"
>>>as the reason to discharge me. If they had given me a medical, they
>>>might have had to take care of me if my injury became chronic.
>>
>>Now that is bullshit. You weren't injured on duty. You were just lucky if
>>you got an honorable discharge. The doc knew that, during this time, many
>>places wouldn't hire someone with a less than honorable discharge.
>>
>It would appear that the choice was to be discharged in some way or to
>stay in the Navy. Yes, employment was difficult if your discharge was
>less than honorable. However, the reason for a medical discharge
>could have resulted in a Purple Heart and that certainly would stand
>you in good stead with a prospective employer.
A wounded veteran would certainly be given an honorable discharge, and the
purple heart would be listed in box 13, decorations, badges, medals, etc.
>I certainly feel that I
>was extremely lucky to have been discharged without having gone to
>Viet Nam (though I would have if ordered), and I've stated why I feel
>lucky and humble (on that subject at least) to have avoided military
>duty during those times.
Your story is so weak and pathetic, that you make those who ran to Canada
look good.
"I joined the Naval Reserves to avoid the draft. When I wet myself
skiing, I asked the doctor for a discharge."
Hollywood Horvath
>> you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
>
>forcing only those who were too poor or stupid to get into college into the
>military, and they were dropped. You could always get a deferment if you were
>doing defense-related work.
And how would you know? Women were not eligible for the draft.
BTW, only during the last few years were college deferments dropped, and
the war was winding down anyway.
Richard Walsh
Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7h109n$sm9$1...@206.244.73.185>...
>"Richard Walsh" <mist...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>>Hollywood Horvath wrote in message <7gui5o$qse$1...@206.244.73.185>...
>>>"Richard Walsh" <mist...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>>>
(one huge mercy SNIP)
y'know if anybody but Horvath said to me the things that he did, in
the way he did, I'd be really pissed. Instead, I'm ROTFLMAO. He's
really good, people, a true gem on this NG. Whatever you do, don't
let him get away. Such a clown prince should be rewarded, not
vilified. He's a jewel beyond price.
NICE troll, HH.
RW
Rick Knowlan
> David *Boots* Hobbs wrote:
>
> > Yeah, you were going to get drafted, sure. Dream on.
>
> Short interrupt here...
>
> It's a generational Cold War thing. Until The Draft was stopped, it was never
> far from the thoughts of anybody who might be subject to it or anybody who had a
> friend or family member who might be subject to it. Until a guy was 26 or
> married, he could get a nasty letter at any time that would throw any previous
> plans he might have had down the dumper and might end up getting him killed.
> Even if a guy wasn't 1A, there was no guarantee that he might still not be
> needed if things got bad enough. Guess the blind didn't have to worry about
> themselves, but they probably had friends who did. Remember, during the 60s
> people who could afford it were building bomb shelters in their back yards,
> sometimes secretly so that their neighbors wouldn't know and try to break in
> when It Happened.
>
> OK, carry on....
Not to reminisce excessively, but I remember early '60s conversations with my fellow
pre-pubescent pals about what we'd do when the air-raid sirens sounded our doom as
the missiles flew over from the USSR. The most popular answer was "I'm going to
(ski)jump Janice" or whomever was the target of their hormone-induced fantasies.
Remove the (ski) to make sense of the above. (Who says this is off-topic?)
Bev
>
> Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote:
> >Hollywood Horvath wrote:
> >
> >> I've never heard of the draft board taking anyone who was in college. Do
> >> you remember who you talked to on the draft board?
> >
> >At first you could get college deferments. Later on it was deemed elitist,
> >forcing only those who were too poor or stupid to get into college into the
> >military, and they were dropped. You could always get a deferment if you were
> >doing defense-related work.
>
> And how would you know? Women were not eligible for the draft.
> BTW, only during the last few years were college deferments dropped, and
> the war was winding down anyway.
Hey, dunce, women can read -- at least most of them can. There may be some kind
of reverse requirement at Hooters (can't figure out where to put the ') which
might skew your perceptions, but surely you must have known at least ONE woman
who could actually interpret those little squiggles on paper.
Women shouldn't care about their men being drafted? Another perception problem,
possibly brought on by your never having met a woman who would admit to even
having met you before, much less actually caring whether you lived or died.
Damn, I gotta stop responding to this crap...
--
Cheers,
Bev
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"We're from the Government. We're here to help."
Bev
Not me! My fantasies revolved around "How am I going to get home if the
Russians blow up this bridge..." and equivalent survival-related items. BTW, in
L.A. it was DROP! I never heard about the duck and cover/turtle thing until I
saw it on TV recently...
BTW, I actually bought a decent (ob)ski bag at a yard sale today for $2! The
Psychic Shopping Network is alive and well!
Hollywood Horvath
>
>NICE troll, HH.
I wasn't trolling. I consider you a draft dodger, and a pathetic human
being.
Hollywood Horvath
>Hollywood Horvath wrote:
>>
>> And how would you know? Women were not eligible for the draft.
>> BTW, only during the last few years were college deferments dropped, and
>> the war was winding down anyway.
>
>Hey, dunce, women can read -- at least most of them can. There may be some kind
>of reverse requirement at Hooters (can't figure out where to put the ') which
>might skew your perceptions, but surely you must have known at least ONE woman
>who could actually interpret those little squiggles on paper.
Of course women can read and write. They have to write down my beer
order, and total up my bill.
Most people go the Hooters for the wings, I go there for the breasts.
Richard Walsh
Bev wrote in message <3734B7C3...@ktb.net>...
(snippage)
>Damn, I gotta stop responding to this crap...
>
>--
>Cheers,
>Bev
>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>"We're from the Government. We're here to help."
>
Hey Bev, I'm gonna stop responding. There's nothing you
or I can say to this wonderful human being that will convince
him to anything other than the fact that you and I are perfect
and he's a complete ass.
RW
XlMeister
>Hey Bev, I'm gonna stop responding. There's nothing you
>or I can say to this wonderful human being that will convince
>him to anything other than the fact that you and I are perfect
>and he's a complete ass.
>RW
Hey, Rich, there may not be any to respond to for a while. I hear somebody
let the air out of one of his yachts over the weekend, and he's busy
re-inflating it. So he's a little low on hot air.
XlMeister
Bev
>
> Bev wrote in message <3734B7C3...@ktb.net>...
> >Hollywood Horvath wrote:
> >>
> >> Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote:
> >> >Hollywood Horvath wrote:
>
> (snippage)
>
> >Damn, I gotta stop responding to this crap...
> >
> or I can say to this wonderful human being that will convince
> him to anything other than the fact that you and I are perfect
> and he's a complete ass.
> RW
You think he's complete? I'd guess no more than 75%, but definitely much
closer to half-assed.
ObSki: Should I store my Marker M41 bindings open or closed? When they're
open the, umm, things stick out so far that they don't fit in my $2 ski bag...
--
Cheers,
Bev
***************************************************************
When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb.
Richard Walsh
Bev wrote in message <37371861...@ktb.net>...
>Richard Walsh wrote:
>>
>> Bev wrote in message <3734B7C3...@ktb.net>...
>> >Hollywood Horvath wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote:
>> >> >Hollywood Horvath wrote:
>>
>> (snippage)
>
>open the, umm, things stick out so far that they don't fit in my $2 ski
bag...
Store 'em closed, but back the DIN setting off to +/-0 but don't allow the
adjuster screw to come out completely. Don't think it can anyway.
RW
Bev
>
> Bev wrote in message <37371861...@ktb.net>...
> >
> >ObSki: Should I store my Marker M41 bindings open or closed? When they're
> >open the, umm, things stick out so far that they don't fit in my $2 ski
> bag...
>
> Store 'em closed, but back the DIN setting off to +/-0 but don't allow the
> adjuster screw to come out completely. Don't think it can anyway.
> RW
Are you absolutely sure about backing off the setting? That involves more
screwing than....never mind.
--
Cheers,
Bev
*********************************************************
Warning: Objects in mirror appear smarter than they are.
Dennis Kessler
> Cheers,
> Bev
> *********************************************************
> Warning: Objects in mirror appear smarter than they are.
very smart sig.
-DK
--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.primenet.com/dsk/acupuncture
Richard Walsh
Bev wrote in message <3738B57A...@ktb.net>...
>Richard Walsh wrote:
>>
>> Bev wrote in message <37371861...@ktb.net>...
>> >
>> >ObSki: Should I store my Marker M41 bindings open or closed? When
they're
>> >open the, umm, things stick out so far that they don't fit in my $2 ski
>> bag...
>>
>> Store 'em closed, but back the DIN setting off to +/-0 but don't allow
the
>> adjuster screw to come out completely. Don't think it can anyway.
>> RW
>
>Are you absolutely sure about backing off the setting? That involves more
>screwing than....never mind.
>
statement as you will.
RW
Ob Ski: Markers seem to be less sensitive to being stored in a state
of tension than other bindings, but I believe in relieving tension.
In reality, I just stick my skis in the corner for next fall. If all works
(by testing) I stick with it. If not, I re-adjust.
>--
Richard Walsh
Anthea wrote in message <3738ccce.0@info-int>...
>Richard Walsh wrote
>
>>In reality, I just stick my skis in the corner for next fall. If all works
>>(by testing) I stick with it. If not, I re-adjust.
>
>done.
>A few squirts of WD40 in the bindings, a shlurp of wax on the bases, and
>into the cupboard they go.
>
OOOOH, you probably shouldn't squirt any lubricant on the bindings. I'm
told it will thin out the factory grease inside. Check with your ski shop
and/
or the specs which came packed with your bindings.
Wax the bases well, don't scrape, make sure the edges are covered.
>What tests do you do on the bindings, out of interest?
I just have the shop do it's normal torque test. My bindings are
never very old. I sell my old skis after a year or two and buy new
in the fall with new bindings. The oldest ones I have are a pair
of M51's I bought from a friend for even less than pro price.
Having worked in a shop, I am a firm believer in testing with
the proper equipment rather than just kicking myself out and
assuming the binding works.
RW
>
>ant
>
>
Bev
>
> Anthea wrote in message <3738ccce.0@info-int>...
> >Richard Walsh wrote
> >
> >>In reality, I just stick my skis in the corner for next fall. If all works
> >>(by testing) I stick with it. If not, I re-adjust.
> >
> >I keep meaning to unscrew the tension thingy, but somehow it never gets
> >done.
> >A few squirts of WD40 in the bindings, a shlurp of wax on the bases, and
> >into the cupboard they go.
> >
> OOOOH, you probably shouldn't squirt any lubricant on the bindings. I'm
> told it will thin out the factory grease inside. Check with your ski shop
I got publicly burned on this a few years ago! Seth says "silicone lubricant"
and I interpreted WD-40, which is a definite no-no. Fortunetely, I have real
silicone lubricant now.
HEY SETH! What happened to the rest of Snowdeath?
> Wax the bases well, don't scrape, make sure the edges are covered.
>
> >What tests do you do on the bindings, out of interest?
>
> I just have the shop do it's normal torque test. My bindings are
> never very old. I sell my old skis after a year or two and buy new
> in the fall with new bindings. The oldest ones I have are a pair
> of M51's I bought from a friend for even less than pro price.
>
> Having worked in a shop, I am a firm believer in testing with
> the proper equipment rather than just kicking myself out and
> assuming the binding works.
I try and twist rather than kick out. Last ones I had to kick out of (guess
I'm getting weak) but gave them the real test by falling hard. They worked.
What if you make a kind of foot+leg-shaped thing and attach a torque wrench?
Bev
NASAFOX
>Date: 5/11/99 7:44 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <92646984...@news.remarQ.com>
made a common mistake referring to Antheas comment about squirting MD40 on her
bindings:
>OOOOH, you probably shouldn't squirt any lubricant on the bindings. I'm
>told it will thin out the factory grease inside. Check with your ski shop
>and/
>or the specs which came packed with your bindings.
WD40 is not a lubricant, it is a low residue cleaner originally developed to
clean the inside of the oxygen tanks on the Atlas ICBM. As such, it is
probably worse than a lubricant unless the bindings were designed to operate in
a dry condition.
Richard Walsh
Anthea wrote in message <3738eaf6.0@info-int>...
>NASAFOX wrote
>
>>WD40 is not a lubricant, it is a low residue cleaner originally developed
>to
>>clean the inside of the oxygen tanks on the Atlas ICBM. As such, it is
>>probably worse than a lubricant unless the bindings were designed to
>operate in
>>a dry condition.
>
>lubricant/general-loosener-up-of-stuck-things over here.
>The manufacturers stuff seems to look a bit like vaseline. maybe devise a
>way of squirting that in?!
Generally speaking shouldn't do anything about lubricating bindings.
Just clean grit, etc. off exposed parts. Water only. NASAFOX is
quite correct about WD40. And you are correct also. It IS sold as a
lubricant and general-loosener-up-of-stuck-things despite what it
was originally developed for.
RW
>
>ant
>
>
Tony2turn
>I keep meaning to unscrew the tension thingy, but somehow it never gets done.
I had the opposite problem, I used to turn down my bindings, until I turned my
215cm Volkls down to 6 din, then took them out the following season for a speed
event. Remembered to special wax and hot box them, but forgot to turn up the
din setting. First run was fine, second run, I hit a rut, lost a ski, and went
through the traps at 98 km/hr......on my back!!!!
-2turn
to e-mail remove XX
Crash Johnson
<>
>I keep meaning to unscrew the tension thingy, but somehow it never gets
>done.
>into the cupboard they go.
ARRRRRRGH! NONONONONONONO. WD40 is, basically, Kerosene, it is not a
lubricant, but rather, a solvent. It will wash the grit out, okay, but it
ruins the lubricating qualities of the mechanism. You cannot reach most of
the sliding surfaces to re-lubricate them. Get professional help.
Backing off the tension settings is a waste of time. Modern binding springs
do not take a set the way the old designs did. Way back then (ca 1970
mumble) it was common to use piano wire springs. Today binding manufacturers
use custom made heat treated springs which are strong enough to not take a
set over the probable lifetime of the equipment.
Crash 'triblogy engineer on call' Johnson
Jay Pique
> In recovery circles, there is an analogy that is frequently used about
> sickness in dysfunctional families (or addiction):
> that there is an elephant in the living room.
> For the purposes of speaking about rsa, I shall refer to this as "the
> sheep in the living room."
> The sheep, of course, are the obvious sickness that has come into this
> group the past couple of years that centers around Anthea and her
> friends.
> The sheep, of course, are the lies and pretensions that are at the core
> of the Invader ethos: the pathetic determination to maintain their image
> no matter what they have to do, the strength of the denial, the
> compulsive need to maintain appearance to the outside world.
> When someone points out there are sheep in the living room, that person
> is ostracized, attacked, demeaned, slandered, libeled, and scorned. The
> group needs to prove that they are not crazy, so they try to make the
> truthteller seem crazy.
> Is any of this sounding familiar?
> Because I'm sure laughing ruefully at how sick these people have become.
>
> I've maintained that there is a very sick dynamic at the core of the
> Invasion that centers on Anthea Kerrison. Anyone who sees that the
> self-proclaimed Empress has no clothes, and that her friends are by and
> large the nerdiest people in the group, gets attacked. Happened with
> Bob, happened with klaus, and happens with me. Anthea plays innocent
> victim in public while working feverishly behind the scenes to
> orchestrate campaigns to discredit the person who sees through her act,
> and every nutcase on the web joins in.
> Naturally, everyone in the circle denies that the Empress has no
> clothes, even though the Empress is so ugly that virtually every person
> outside the circle sees the dynamic perfectly.
> So the group attacks, and as more and more people see the truth about
> the group, their attacks escalate.
> Denial is such a fascinating human reaction, is it not?
> I've known for a long time how vile some human beings can get to protect
> their reputations, and how such people find expression for their
> agression and hatred in tearing down other human beings. I saw it four
> years ago with the slut of rsa, in a very similar situation.
> But there is always room for amazement, and I am truly amazed at the
> depths to which Anthea and her friends have sunk, the blatant hypocrisy,
> the outright lies, and the joy they take in attacking another human
> being whose only crime is to see them for what they are and describe
> them for what they are, accurately and fairly.
> How desperate can you be when you are trying with all your powers, with
> no restraint, with no decency, to destroy an innocent man simply because
> he got tired of letting such evil exist without pointing out its
> potential for destruction?
> Every single aspect of my life has been drug out of the swamp, twisted
> beyond recognition, and used to try to portray me as an insane mass
> murderer, a violent man, a destructive man, a man who is deluded,
> mentally incompetent, suffering from mental disorders, a sexual
> predator, a liar, and whatever sick fantasies these people can invent.
> Have they no shame? Have they no conscience? Have they no ethics, or
> morals, or limits?
> It appears not.
> It is the same sad old game of trying to make the truth teller look
> crazy, of shameless lying, of using any tactic they can drag out of the
> slime of their souls to distract, deny, and hide.
> Except there is a slight problem.
> I think most of you see them exactly for what they are. I know that
> every single one of my friends support me. These are people who have
> known me for years, skied with me, stayed with me, had me as a guest in
> their homes, and curiously enough, despite the libel of Team Satan, I am
> still welcome in all those homes.
> Somewhere along the line, no of them has noticed that I am a delusional
> manic depressive violent man driven by his hatred: this is an invention
> of these truly evil people.
> I knew this would get messy, just like the living room, but I really
> didn't expect that Anthea and her friends could lower themselves into
> the sewer and spew such filth with such vicious glee.
> My arguement has remained the same: Anthea is a slanderer who
> manipulates behind the scenes while maintaining a professional victim
> posture on the net, a thief, and a very sick woman who has no life
> outside of rsa, so is driven to compulsively protect her pathetic
> image. She attracks people like her, people who live in lies, people
> who also compelled to protect themselves from self knowledge, people who
> lack many of the moral and ethical standards the rest of us strive to
> live up to.
> I think I've proved my point.
> How more vile can someone be than to use the fact that I was sexually
> abused as a child as a way of proving Anthea is innocent of the charges
> I level?
> Especially since when they stoop to do such evil, they prove the point I
> originally made?
> Do they really believe that the rest of rsa is buying this insanity,
> that they are not exposed for what they are?
> Do they really believe that the rest of rsa will conclude, with no
> evidence other than these filthy lies, that I am an insane, dangerous
> man?
> I think they do. I think they are that sick, that vicious, that cruel,
> that deluded.
> The sheep are in the living room, folks, and we can't pretend that the
> flock isn't crapping on our newsgroup.
> I'm not surprised that more people havn't stepped forward, because to do
> so would expose them to the same kind of rabid attack that I have been
> targeted with: these groups protect themselves from exposure by the
> threat of such a concerted, conciousless campaign of lies.
> But there is something YOU can do, and it is very simple.
> Refuse to associate with these people.
> Refuse them your homes, refuse to ski with them, refuse to be identified
> with them in any way.
> I can tell you this: I will not associate with any of them under any
> circumstances, and I won't have anything to do with anyone who does
> offer support and friendship to those people.
> Which is no problem as far as my real friends and the healthy people of
> this group are concerned, because most of them have already made that
> decision.
> Social pressure is the only way that we can enforce a reasonably
> civilized code of ethics and behavior on this group.
> There is evil among us, people, and you know damn well that if you step
> forward, that evil will be focused on you.
> I understand that reluctance, because who needs the aggravation, and I
> thank all of you who wrote me privately to express your compassion.
(Thanks, Bert!)
> But I'm not backing away.
18 years and running. Keep up the good work!
> As long as Anthea and her attack dogs are on this newsgroup, I'm going
> to keep reminding everyone of their utter lack of character and
> morality, of their conciousless lies, of their dishonesty and
> pretensions.
I've said it before, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
> I see the sheep, and I think most of you see the sheep, too.
> Scott
No, Scott, only you see the sheep. It's just you, alone with your obsession. Alone with your addiction. Alone with your anger, and hatred, and denial. Alone.
JP
******************************
<meekly> anyone? please?
Scott Abraham
> It's just you, alone with your obsession.
> Alone with your addiction.
28 years sober. Ain't me lying and defaming and spewing shit, idiot.
> Alone with your anger, and hatred, and denial. Alone.
> JP
> ******************************
> <meekly> anyone? please?
Jay Pique
> > It's just you, alone with your obsession.
>
> Ain't me who is wasting time on google embarassing himself by posting reality and thinking he is winning, dumbfuck. You.
> > Alone with your addiction.
>
> 28 years sober. Ain't me lying and defaming and spewing shit, idiot.
> > Alone with your anger, and hatred, and denial. Alone.
>
> You could not describe yourself better. I don't hate you. You're too fucking stupid to hate. See a shrink, you really are delusional.
Scott Abraham
> > > It's just you, alone with your obsession.
> >
> > Ain't me who is wasting time on google embarassing himself by posting reality and thinking he is winning, dumbfuck. You.
>
> Uh, yeah bro, you're on here every. single. night. checking in on a group that you claim to loathe. But you are right that I am posting reality. Bites, huh?
> > > Alone with your addiction.
> >
> > 28 years sober. Ain't me lying and defaming and spewing shit, idiot.
>
> You may dry, but you are not sober.
You know nothing about addiction. Strange how I know hundreds of people who do know something, and none of them agree with you. Hilarious. Gross lies, idiotic distortions.
> And you are completely addicted and obsessed with this newsgroup. Come over to Lynnwood some night- I can help you. Also - can you point specifically one lie I've made about you?
You just fucked yourself with the Lynnwood remark. Fellowship hall, butt simple AA, biker stuff. I do high end meetings.
How about you help me with a verifiable identity? Holy shit, you're so fucked up you think you should be anonymous in the real world, not just in the rooms. Figure you had a DUI or two, given your idiocy, so you might have been forced to go to meetings.
> > > Alone with your anger, and hatred, and denial. Alone.
> >
> > You could not describe yourself better. I don't hate you. You're too fucking stupid to hate. See a shrink, you really are delusional.
>
> Really? I thought you wanted to try and hit me with a left hook on site?
> Some friend you are!
I loathe you. Get used to it.
>
> > > JP
> > > ******************************
> > > <meekly> anyone? please?