Snowboarding at Alpine Meadows?
Giles Rider
--
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Daniel H. Silver
My vote:
NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!!
Is that clear? :-)
I go there precisely because there are no snowboards.
Daniel H. Silver "Memory is a kind
Department of Psychology, UCB of accomplishment,
dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu a sort of renewal . . ."
Disclaimer: I am me not ucb W.C. Williams((((((((((((*))))))))))))
Glen Baker
> Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
Very poorly phrased. Should? For what reason? I think that Alpine Meadows
"should" do whatever they damn well please as far as allowing
snowboarders. Heck, if they decide that they'd rather devote the entire
mountain to snowboarders and ban skiers then they "should" do that too!
..glen
Mark_Donohoe
: Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
Well, I don't mind snowboarders at all, but I must admit that it is nice to
have at least one area that does not allow them. Why?, well, it's not the
snowboard. It's the attitude and lack of slope manners. These are the same
people, 10 years ago that were ass holes. Now the same 'types' often
ride snowboards. Don't get me wrong, there are still ass holes on skis as
well, but many of them seem to be riding boards.
I don't buy the notion that snowboards wreck the snow. Boarders pay for
their lift ticket and have a right to the snow just like anybody else.
Again, I don't mind sharing, just like to have a change. Hey, I'm not
allowed in the half-pipe on ski's...so I guess it works both ways.
Don't do a boards on Sat, none on sunday type of stupid thing...it just
makes you look desperate. If you need the $$, allow boards. I think
you should listen to your season ticket holders 1st (like I have heard you
have been doing) and not the general rabbel (like me :-) ).
Hope this helps.
--
Mark Donohoe (ma...@cup.hp.com)
Eugene N. Miya
>: Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
>
>Well, I don't mind snowboarders at all, but I must admit that it is nice to
>have at least one area that does not allow them. Why?, well, it's not the
>snowboard. It's the attitude and lack of slope manners.
Okay, here's the plan. The Boarders organize themselves and are allowed
to only send their best people. Brand them at the suggestion of another group.
Hey, look there's no half pipe there. This way they put their best foot
forward. No beginning boarders. Hey, maybe we can get rid of beginning
skiers: learn at other resorts and come here only after they get better
(and not just stand around). Hey, I don't immediately care, I don't ski
runs. Send them to Vail. (3.0)
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
{uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
My 2nd favorite use of a flame thrower is the remake of "The Thing."
A Ref: Uncommon Sense, Alan Cromer, Oxford Univ. Press, 1993.
Mike Gleeson
>Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
This last season was my first year skiing. I met a lot of talented
snowboarders who felt unchallanged after years of skiing, and a lot
of older skiers who where thinking about trying snowboarding. I think
snowboarding looks like fun to many individuals & is quickly losing the
stereotypes. (Well, unless you do night skiing at Boreal :-)) As far
as I can figure out, ski-only Alpine will go from being a major ski resort
to a niche ski resort. If that's how they think they can stay profitable,
fine. I'll take my money elsewhere -> the last few years have been really
tough on Tahoe tourism. Alpine does not have a monopoly on good snow.
Personally, I'm more than happy to hit Sugarbowl.
- Mike
p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
try it, you'll never ski again."
Tom Chatt
| >Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
|
|
| NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!!
| Is that clear? :-)
|
| I go there precisely because there are no snowboards.
Bigot.
This is bigotry pure and simple. It stems from either
stereotyping ("all snowboarders are young punks who have
no sense of mountain etiquette") or ignorance (they seem
dangerous and erratic to you because you're ignorant
of how a snowboarder is likely to maneuver, just as a
powerboater might be ignorant of what a sailboat is
likely to do).
Get over it.
--
Tom Chatt \ Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: t...@flood.com \ Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom / \ we oppress ourselves.
Daniel H. Silver
>dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Daniel H. Silver) writes:
[My rational opinon snipped.]
>Bigot.
Nice, Tom.
>
>This is bigotry pure and simple. It stems from either
>stereotyping ("all snowboarders are young punks who have
>no sense of mountain etiquette") or ignorance (they seem
>dangerous and erratic to you because you're ignorant
>of how a snowboarder is likely to maneuver, just as a
>powerboater might be ignorant of what a sailboat is
>likely to do).
>
>Get over it.
>
A bigot is one irrationally devoted to his own belief,
whereas my opinions are based on careful observation
and are well-differentiated and open to change.
I am not saying that snowboarders should be banned from
all resorts, only that I go to Alpine because they have
a culture of skiing, and that I value that culture.
Snowboarders should have their own space, too, and they
do at many areas. And both can probably coexist in some
areas as well.
BTW, your metaphor is precisely backwards. The snowboarders
are more like powerboats cutting off the sailboats/skiers.
When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
Why should I have to worry about a high speed arcing
powerboat, when I'm out sailing? You also seem to
suggest that I should be taking the path of a snowboard
into account. This would only be true if I were overtaking
the snowboard, or we were skiing side-by-side, or do
you look upslope while you're skiing, oops, I mean
boarding? One problem is that the snowboarders often overtake
the skiers, and thus it is the snowboarders who should be
considering the line that the skier is taking.
Further, your attack on my knowledge has no basis in fact.
I've been skiing since I was old enough to walk and spent
10 years living and working in Utah (Alta/Snowbird). I've spent
lots of time on snowboards, but have decided that I much
prefer skis. That's my personal preference. My experience
has been that when I ski at an area with snowboards, I
and my kid are at greater risk of being mowed down. I
think that this is a result both of the speed and line that
beg-intermediate snowboarders take down the mountain, and
because young morons (not all morons are young, nor are all the
young morons) are considerably overrepresented among
snowboarders. Perhaps you can tell me why this is so. You seem
like you might be an expert.
Apologies for the bandwidth, but being called a bigot
calls for a response.
Crispin Cowan
Daniel H. Silver <dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
snowboard leasons on novice hills. I have never hit a skier.
Collisions have always been a problem. It's slightly more of a problem
when snowboards are involved because of the asymetric field of vision
imposed by the stance, and the (to skiers) unusual pattern of movement
(larger, wider turns).
WRT Alpine Meadows, I don't have a problem with them servicing the
ludd--<ahem> skiers-only market, so long as they're the exception to
the rule. The pattern in SLC is of much greater concern. But overall,
the money trend is towards snowboarding, so I no longer feel threatened
by segregated resorts.
Crispin
-----
Crispin Cowan, CS PhD student, searching for a research position
University of Western Ontario
Phyz-mail: Middlesex College, MC28-C, London, Ontario, N6A 5B7
E-mail: cri...@csd.uwo.ca Voice: 519-661-3342
"A distributed system is one in which I cannot get something done
because a machine I've never heard of is down" --Leslie Lamport
Keith Braunwalder
: dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Daniel H. Silver) writes:
: | >Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
: |
: | My vote:
: |
: | NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!!
: | Is that clear? :-)
: |
: | I go there precisely because there are no snowboards.
: Bigot.
: This is bigotry pure and simple. It stems from either
: stereotyping ("all snowboarders are young punks who have
: no sense of mountain etiquette") or ignorance (they seem
: dangerous and erratic to you because you're ignorant
: of how a snowboarder is likely to maneuver, just as a
: powerboater might be ignorant of what a sailboat is
: likely to do).
Nice logic jump there........Whether or not the poster harbors feelings
of bigotry, you certainly can't tell from this post.
: Get over it.
Don't be so sensitive, the war between snowboarders and skiers seems to
be dying down.
Glen, do we have a schedule for those 'Diversity workshops' ? :-)
: --
: Tom Chatt \ Don't take offense, take action.
: Internet: t...@flood.com \ Speak up. When we remain silent,
: UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom / \ we oppress ourselves.
Keith
Keith Braunwalder
: In article <1994Jun25.2...@flood.com>, Tom Chatt <t...@flood.com> wrote:
: >dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Daniel H. Silver) writes:
: [My rational opinon snipped.]
: >Bigot.
: Nice, Tom.
< deletia >
: BTW, your metaphor is precisely backwards. The snowboarders
: are more like powerboats cutting off the sailboats/skiers.
: When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
Actually, lot's of times. I'm not certain that skiers don't hit *way*
more snowboarders than vice-versa. There are, of course, many causes though.
: Apologies for the bandwidth, but being called a bigot
: calls for a response.
I agree there.
: Daniel H. Silver "Memory is a kind
: Department of Psychology, UCB of accomplishment,
: dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu a sort of renewal . . ."
: Disclaimer: I am me not ucb W.C. Williams((((((((((((*))))))))))))
Keith
Jim Graf
>WRT Alpine Meadows, I don't have a problem with them servicing the
>ludd--<ahem> skiers-only market, so long as they're the exception to
Ahh, I wasn't going to respond to the "Alpine Meadows Snowboarder" debate,
but name calling always gets me going. I think Alpine should remain a skiers
only area. The ski pack is a little different from a ski/snowboard mix, and I
like that. It is too bad for "Snowboarder only" types though. 'Cause
there are some remarkable bowls at Alpine. If there is ever a concern
that a decent area goes all snowboard, then I will learn snowboarding.
Until then (and I think that may be a while before a place like Sugar Bowl
goes all snowboard), I will stick to my skis. I got lots more to learn.
Oh yeah, about the name calling Crispin. I usually refer to snowboarders in
two ways: (1) snailtrackers, due to the types of tracks that they usually
leave look just like snail tracks or (2) groomers, since most snowboarders
knock down moguls. It's that sideways sliding thing they love to do.
>Crispin
>-----
>Crispin Cowan, CS PhD student, searching for a research position
>University of Western Ontario
>Phyz-mail: Middlesex College, MC28-C, London, Ontario, N6A 5B7
>E-mail: cri...@csd.uwo.ca Voice: 519-661-3342
>"A distributed system is one in which I cannot get something done
>because a machine I've never heard of is down" --Leslie Lamport
--
Jim Graf, Lsi Logic, jg...@lsil.com
Surf for joy, Ski for thrills, Blade for blood (I always bleed when I blade)
Crispin Cowan
>In article d...@falcon.ccs.uwo.ca, cri...@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes:
>>ludd--<ahem> skiers-only market, so long as they're the exception to
>^^^^^^
The term "luddite" is being applied to people who want to ski a
snowboard-free environment, not to skiers in general. It's also
intended as a humerous comment on the situation, as you'll note because
I actually support Alpine staying the way it is if they want to.
Added rec.skiing.snowboard, because the guy complaining about
appropriate news groups is partially correct: this topic properly
affects both skiers and snowboarders.
Kenneth Quigley
>
>Again, I don't mind sharing, just like to have a change. Hey, I'm not
>allowed in the half-pipe on ski's...so I guess it works both ways.
>
like them, good ski partneers are hard to find. I do however ignore
the snowboard only signs at half-pipes and snowboard parks. All of
the years that I have spent skiing looking for good places to jump
while watching out for overzealous ski patrollers. Now there is a place
to jump where it is legitimate. I'll share the slopes and trails,
snowboarders can share half-ipies and snowboard parks.
--
Ken Q S:-{)
Crispin Cowan
Kenneth Quigley <ken...@delphi.com> wrote:
>like them, good ski partneers are hard to find. I do however ignore
>the snowboard only signs at half-pipes and snowboard parks. All of
the pipe destroys the shape of the lip, making it useless as a
half-pipe. Cheating in one fashion (ignoring the no-skis sign) to
avoid getting busted for cheating in another way (jumping) is not cool,
especially if you destroy something other people have worked very hard
for in the process.
I'm less dogmatic about the jib park. Skis also destroy jump shape
there, but it isn't as critical. I understand that the principle
reason for prohibiting skis from the jib park is safety:
-skiers are more likely to injure themselves when catching
major air
-skiers are more likely to sue the resort when the injure
themselves :-)
So, ski the jib park at your own risk, I don't care, but please stay
out of the pipe. I, in turn, will stay off any mogul fields posted as
"no skis shorter than 180 cm" for similar reasons.
let...@llnl.gov
> snowboard-free environment, not to skiers in general.
> Crispin Cowan
I ski Alpine 50-60 days each year (season pass holder), plus 5-10 days
elsewhere (Squaw, Alta, Jackson, etc) - I figure with a family of four I
spend mucho bucks on food, ski team, races, equipment, etc. at Alpine.
People like me support Alpine in the lean snow years, and bolster the
coffers early in the good snow years (like the 94-95 season will be, with
record snowfalls expected - (fingers crossed, knocking on wood all the way)
).
Now the point:
Alpine gets my money partly because of NO snowboarders. I am amazed by the
number of citizen skiers I meet on an Alpine lift who volunteer,
un-prompted, that they didn't know that Alpine had no boarders, and that if
they had known, they would have skied Alpine sooner and more often. Alpine
is missing a great selling point in their advertising. They should push the
traditional ski area idea harder - it appeals to lots of people. I have
induced numerous acquaintances (who would have otherwise gone to the Squaw
Mall to stand in line, or to Flatstar) to spend their money at Alpine. It's
an automatic decision once they hear of the no boarder policy.
I vote to keep Alpine a traditional ski resort - no snowboarders. It's not
unreasonable to have choices available.
By the way, I noticed someone in this thread claimed the thread originator
was a Squaw flack - probably trying to stir up the competition, if true?!
---------------------------------------------------
WARNING: Diatribe follows: may be skipped without hurting my feelings.
I don't like to share the slopes with the average snowboarder I come
across, NOT because they're young, or rowdy, or any other adjective (we
were all young and rowdy once), but because they jamb up the line getting
boards crossways to the flow, they clog the flow sitting around the lifts
top and bottom, AND MAINLY because they insist on getting out in the steep
and deep way over their skill level and then skidding sideways tearing up
huge swaths of that too rare commodity, untracked powder, before bailing
and traversing out across the bowl. Skiers (if they're polite and
cooperative) can lay down parallel tracks all across a high bowl, each
skier getting an untracked run, over and over and over. I've never seen a
boarder who would (or maybe it's just a matter of could - Ie no skills
available) pay attention to powder etiquette.
I've also had repeated instances where I'm cruising, at speed, purposely
down one side of an open, sparsely populated, expert run and a boarder will
turn across the run, their back up slope, without looking up slope. Do I
head off into the rocks and trees? Do I assume they're going to behave
normally and make a sequence of linked turns so I can continue my run down
my side of the chute? Do I turn to pass behind the boarder assuming he's
not going to link his turns (since it seems that most boarders on the
expert slopes can't link a turn to save their live and end up skidding down
on their butts, this is the generally pattern to be anticipated, but since
there's nothing intrinsic about a snowboard that says he can't link his
turns, its unsafe to assume he's not turning back toward you. However, you
CAN rest assured he won't look up slope before turning.) In reality I have
to slow to a snails pace, aborting my cruise, to avoid the possibility of
an accident. I expect and approve of slow skiing in congested areas and
beginner-intermediate areas. I am irritated as hell by beginner boarders
screwing around on the expert areas. Beginner skiers seem to have more
sense or fear or something, and stay away from dangerously steep runs. The
"butt on the snow" snowboard design seems to encourage beginning boarders
to venture on the steep.
---------------------------------------------------
Diatribe over
Lloyd
<Insert standard disclaimer BS>
Eugene N. Miya
>p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
>try it, you'll never ski again."
I tend to doubt that.
Patrick Chase
|> In article <Jg7zBsB...@delphi.com>,
|> Kenneth Quigley <ken...@delphi.com> wrote:
|>
|> >like them, good ski partneers are hard to find. I do however ignore
|> >the snowboard only signs at half-pipes and snowboard parks. All of
|>
|> This is a really bad idea, especially in the pipe. Taking skis into
|> the pipe destroys the shape of the lip, making it useless as a
|> half-pipe. Cheating in one fashion (ignoring the no-skis sign) to
|> avoid getting busted for cheating in another way (jumping) is not cool,
|> especially if you destroy something other people have worked very hard
|> for in the process.
Interesting you should raise this point (skis destroying the shape of a
half-pipe). In general, I have absolutely nothing against snowboarders,
but I want to grab the nearest one and wring their necks every time I get
out on a mogul run and see:
a.) Snail tracks
b.) Undercut backsides on every mogul from snowboarders kicking their
tails into them.
Intermediate skiers out on mogul runs annoy me for more or less the same
reasons, BTW. How's this for a deal: I'll stay out of your half-pipes and
parks if you'll leave me 2 or 3 good, steep, mogul runs per area? If you're
a truly good snowdoarder, then this doesn't apply to you. I've seen a few
who are competent to negotiate a mogul field without screwing things up.
|> I'm less dogmatic about the jib park. Skis also destroy jump shape
|> there, but it isn't as critical. I understand that the principle
|> reason for prohibiting skis from the jib park is safety:
|> -skiers are more likely to injure themselves when catching
|> major air
True.
|> -skiers are more likely to sue the resort when the injure
|> themselves :-)
Unfortunately accurate. Just wait until all of those yuppie lawyers start
taking up snowboarding, though... :-)
|> So, ski the jib park at your own risk, I don't care, but please stay
|> out of the pipe. I, in turn, will stay off any mogul fields posted as
|> "no skis shorter than 180 cm" for similar reasons.
Cool! How about 1 or 2 others at areas like Squaw, which doesn't mark their
mogul runs "no skis shorter than 180 cm"?
|>
|> Crispin
|> -----
|> Crispin Cowan, CS PhD student, searching for a research position
|> University of Western Ontario
|> Phyz-mail: Middlesex College, MC28-C, London, Ontario, N6A 5B7
|> E-mail: cri...@csd.uwo.ca Voice: 519-661-3342
|> "A distributed system is one in which I cannot get something done
|> because a machine I've never heard of is down" --Leslie Lamport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chase
H-P San Diego
jo...@eas.pdx.edu
>|> major air
>
>True.
>
>|> -skiers are more likely to sue the resort when the injure
>|> themselves :-)
>
>Unfortunately accurate. Just wait until all of those yuppie lawyers start
>taking up snowboarding, though... :-)
>
Or rather, wait until all the grunge X-generation snowboarders grow-up
and become the yuppie lawyers of tommorrow. Did the "older" skiers sue
the resorts when they were "young", I doubt it. Just wait...sue'ing is
certainily not a "skier" or "snowboarder" thing to do, it's the American
"hold my hand cuz I can't be responsible" thing to do!
+======================================================================+
| ,_ o John A. Harris, CAD Lab Supervisor, Portland State Univ. |
| / //\, jo...@eas.pdx.edu (503) 725-4294 |
| \>> | |
| \\, She said, this is a perfect world riding on an incline |
+======================================================================+
Keith Braunwalder
: In article <Crvzu...@amd.com> mgle...@angelo.amd.com (Mike Gleeson) writes:
: >p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
: >try it, you'll never ski again."
: I tend to doubt that.
Ya, I heard that statement (or similar) about half a dozen times last year.
Each time, I knew of the 'skiers' ability before they switched. IMHO, they
never could ski, so how could they make that comment ? On the other side
of the ledger, I do know of a couple of VERY proficient skiers who are very
good boarders, however, they still ski often and would not make that claim.
: --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
: Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
: {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
: My 2nd favorite use of a flame thrower is the remake of "The Thing."
: A Ref: Uncommon Sense, Alan Cromer, Oxford Univ. Press, 1993.
Keith
Mike Gleeson
>In article <Crvzu...@amd.com> mgle...@angelo.amd.com (Mike Gleeson) writes:
>>p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
>>try it, you'll never ski again."
>
>I tend to doubt that.
Oh, am I lying? Know me that well? After this whole pathetic discussion of
skiers vs snowboarders, I can only say that Alpine Meadow's skiers seem to
be really, really uptight. Bleach!
- Mike
Tanya Foster
>Interesting you should raise this point (skis destroying the shape of a
>half-pipe). In general, I have absolutely nothing against snowboarders,
>but I want to grab the nearest one and wring their necks every time I get
>out on a mogul run and see:
> a.) Snail tracks
> b.) Undercut backsides on every mogul from snowboarders kicking their
> tails into them.
>Intermediate skiers out on mogul runs annoy me for more or less the same reasons
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Patrick, were'nt you once an intermediate skier trying to get more mogul
experience so you could join the truly elite??? I can't think of any other
way than to ski moguls so you can be a good mogul skier!! Are we now down
to haggeling between the skiers to have an "advanced mogul skiers only" and
a "beginning mogul skiers only" runs?
Tanya
Eugene N. Miya
writes:
>: >p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
>: >try it, you'll never ski again."
>Eugene N. Miya (eug...@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov) wrote:
>: I tend to doubt that.
In article <Cs4Gw...@boi.hp.com> mit...@boi.hp.com (Keith Braunwalder) writes:
>Ya, I heard that statement (or similar) about half a dozen times last year.
>Each time, I knew of the 'skiers' ability before they switched. IMHO, they
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>never could ski, so how could they make that comment ? On the other side
>of the ledger, I do know of a couple of VERY proficient skiers who are very
>good boarders, however, they still ski often and would not make that claim.
Okay. So tell me how good a skier I am. This is the Internet.
This ought out be good. 8^)
Frankly, I think both the downhillers and the boarders are missing the
point. We aren't having this argument in the other group, and if Galen H.
where here, he would of course assert the superiority of cavers of every-
body (all skiers). I have no need for a form of transportation which
doesn't allow an uphill mode without resorting to a lift (some of the time).
And taking boards off and waddling up is laughable. You guys have such
such fragile egos.
This also covers Mike's follow up.
Crispin Cowan
Tanya Foster <tan...@gilligan.gvg.tek.com> wrote:
>In article <2upqer...@hpsdlss3.sdd.hp.com> pat...@sdd.hp.com (Patrick Chase) writes:
>>Intermediate skiers out on mogul runs annoy me for more or less the same reasons
> experience so you could join the truly elite??? I can't think of any other
> way than to ski moguls so you can be a good mogul skier!! Are we now down
> to haggeling between the skiers to have an "advanced mogul skiers only" and
> a "beginning mogul skiers only" runs?
My favourite way to control for beginners trashing the mogul fields,
which is even better than a minimum length requirement, is "No
Rentals". This is based on the statistically valid correlation between
beginners and rented gear, which at most resorts is easy to spot
because they're all the same ugly white colour and have "Rental"
painted across the top. Of course, there should also be a mogul field
for the beginners to bounce around in to get some miles, but I do think
that expert mogul bashers deserve their won playground.
Bruno Melli
: In article <Cs4DE...@cnn.nas.nasa.gov> eug...@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
: >I tend to doubt that.
: Oh, am I lying? Know me that well? After this whole pathetic discussion of
: skiers vs snowboarders, I can only say that Alpine Meadow's skiers seem to
: be really, really uptight. Bleach!
I think Eugene was doubting that once you try snowboarding you give up
skiing, not the fact that most snowboarder tell you that line.
As to "will you actually give up skiing", it depends on how much fun you
have skiing.
I tried snowboarding, hung in there until I could do carved
turns on a blue run, tried it in powder and loved it but I still mostly ski.
Probably because I have so much fun skiing.
On the other hand, my sister gave up skiing for snowboarding.
But she was stuck in that intermediate plateau so many people never
seem to get out and I don't think she had that much fun on skis anymore.
bruno.
Patrick Chase
|> In article <2upqer...@hpsdlss3.sdd.hp.com> pat...@sdd.hp.com (Patrick Chase) writes:
|> >Interesting you should raise this point (skis destroying the shape of a
|> >half-pipe). In general, I have absolutely nothing against snowboarders,
|> >but I want to grab the nearest one and wring their necks every time I get
|> >out on a mogul run and see:
|> > a.) Snail tracks
|> > b.) Undercut backsides on every mogul from snowboarders kicking their
|> > tails into them.
|> >Intermediate skiers out on mogul runs annoy me for more or less the same
|> >reasons
|>
|> experience so you could join the truly elite??? I can't think of any other
|> way than to ski moguls so you can be a good mogul skier!! Are we now down
|> to haggeling between the skiers to have an "advanced mogul skiers only" and
|> a "beginning mogul skiers only" runs?
|>
Mea culpa :-) I should have qualified my comment a bit more thoroughly...
If a skier takes the time to work on their technique on easier runs, and
then pushes the envelope a bit on a difficult run, I congratulate them.
They're discovering what I've found to be one of the greatest experiences in
skiing. I think that most expert skiers can tell when this is the situation,
and all but the most obnoxious will provide any pointers/assistance they
can.
On the other hand, I can't stand Jane/Joe Stud Muffin Intermediate Skier
who goes hacking on down the West Face of KT for bragging rights or to
impress members of the opposite sex, without first having taken the time
to work on her/his basic technique. It's kind of like the clown who shows
up late and unprepared to a major meeting, and then proceeds to ask questions
to which they would have known the answers had they done any homework
whatsoever: they annoy everybody, prevent others from getting anything done,
and gain nothing from the experience except the right to brag that "they
were THERE!"
Sorry about the generality of the original comment...
|> Tanya
Bradley P. Allen
How's this for a deal: I'll stay out of your half-pipes and
parks if you'll leave me 2 or 3 good, steep, mogul runs per area?
Sorry. No deal.
- BPA
--
<a href="ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bpa/www/home.html">My home page.</a>
Eric Larson
northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
Time to go climbing.
---
| Eric Larson NeXT Computer, Inc., Redwood City, CA |
| sar...@next.com Representing my stupidity here, not NeXT's!|
----------------------------------------------------------------
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it
hitched to everything else in the universe." John Muir
"Some signs say only take pictures, only leave footprints, and
only climb rocks." Hannah Larson at age 4
John Sully
In article <2uqepe$a...@rosie.next.com>, sar...@next.com writes:
> As this thread illustrates, it's now almost high summer in the
> northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
> starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
>
> That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
>
> Time to go climbing.
Time to go sailing.
--
John Sully
Silicon Graphics, Inc.
jms...@sgi.com
(415) 390-3291 (3-3291)
131P70000-PrestonD(DR2673)300
|>
|> In article <2uqepe$a...@rosie.next.com>, sar...@next.com writes:
|> > As this thread illustrates, it's now almost high summer in the
|> > northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
|> > starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
|> >
|> > That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
|> >
|> > Time to go climbing.
|>
|> Time to go sailing.
|>
RollerBlades!!!
--
Dennis Preston |
ATT GBCS Denver Labs | A good day starts with 2 black diamonds.
11900 N. Pecos |
Denver, CO 80234 |
Richard Merrill
:In article <2uqn7s$f...@fido.asd.sgi.com>, jms...@olson30.esd.sgi.com (John Sully) writes:
:|>
:|> In article <2uqepe$a...@rosie.next.com>, sar...@next.com writes:
:|> > As this thread illustrates, it's now almost high summer in the
:|> > northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
:|> > starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
:|> >
:|> > That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
:|> >
:|> > Time to go climbing.
:|>
:|> Time to go sailing.
:|>
:
: RollerBlades!!!
Volleyball!!!!
---
Richard Merrill mer...@rsoc.rockwell.com (713) 282-6815
Dynamo Dave Theil
the point that I could do blues. I admit that I really liked the way you use
your entire body instead of just hips; it had a very nice feel. I guess I
did not like it enough to want to spend a few more weeks getting competent to
the point that I could really enjoy it, as witnessed by the fact I have not been
on a board since then (though sometimes I wish......)
I have a few comments on the whole "snowboarders vs skiiers who runs into who"
the most. Snowboards are intrinisically far slower than skiis, yet I do see
some snowboard induced collisions. I also see skier induced collisions.
My conclusion is that it is the individual doing the steering who is responsible
for accidents, whether he is on a board or skiis.
Some skiiers have the impression that snowboarding is some kind of alien
sport guarranteed to cause a skiier to have an accidents at some point. Lets
face it, skiers (especially those who complain a lot about others causing
accidents) fall a lot. There is also this great tradition in humans to pass
the buck or look for a scapegoat. A snowboarder makes for a good skiiers'
scapegoat because boarders stand out in a crowd (of skiiers, because still
skiiers dominate the slopes in
general.)
The mainly mono-directional skiiers -> boarders enmity comes from plain old
people not wanting to take responsibility for their own inability. No way
will I be convinced that snowboards THEMSELVES cause accidents becase they
move faster.
--
David Theil
campus box 389 Boulder, Colorado 80309 (303)492-0895
No guts, no glory.
Eugene N. Miya
(John Sully) writes:
>In article <2uqepe$a...@rosie.next.com>, sar...@next.com writes:
>> As this thread illustrates, it's now almost high summer in the
>> northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
>> starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
>>
>> That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
>>
>> Time to go climbing.
>
>Time to go sailing.
Time to circumnavigate Lake Tahoe in a kayak.....
We'll convert Baker yet.
michael crotty
<let...@llnl.gov> wrote:
>huge swaths of that too rare commodity, untracked powder, before bailing
>and traversing out across the bowl. Skiers (if they're polite and
>cooperative) can lay down parallel tracks all across a high bowl, each
>skier getting an untracked run, over and over and over. I've never seen a
>boarder who would (or maybe it's just a matter of could - Ie no skills
>available) pay attention to powder etiquette.
since there are no snowboarders to groom it.
Part of the reason snowboarders (me at least) don't make little
figure 8's is that we go easily twice the speed you do in powder. I'm
having too much of a blast to bother with things like where I am or what
I'm doing. When I ski powder at alta I'm bored enough to count
how many little 8's I can make in a day.
You're one of those people who try to prevent other people from
having more fun than you aren't you?
>I've also had repeated instances where I'm cruising, at speed, purposely
>down one side of an open, sparsely populated, expert run and a boarder will
>turn across the run, their back up slope, without looking up slope. Do I
>...
>there's nothing intrinsic about a snowboard that says he can't link his
>turns, its unsafe to assume he's not turning back toward you. However, you
>CAN rest assured he won't look up slope before turning.) In reality I have
I agree that a PERSON entering a trail should look uphill before
entering, but once they're there you want them to look behind them before
each turn? Do you do this? Or do you expect everyone to bow down before
you at all times, doing what you tell them rather than what you do
yourself? Have you ever seen the napkins in the lodge with the skiiers
responsibility code that says its your responsibility to avoid skiiers
DOWNHILL from you? Or are you responsible at all?
bye
mike
Janet Lynch
> I have a few comments on the whole "snowboarders vs skiiers who runs into who"
> the most. Snowboards are intrinisically far slower than skiis, yet I do see
> some snowboard induced collisions. I also see skier induced collisions.
> My conclusion is that it is the individual doing the steering who is responsible
> for accidents, whether he is on a board or skiis.
Dave makes a great point here, it's testosterone that causes most collisions!
-couldn't resist
RED
Kenneth Quigley
It is about time to scrape the wax on the boards and wait for
the first few flakes. Summer's days are numbered.
Kevin Maguire
(Daniel H. Silver) wrote:
> BTW, your metaphor is precisely backwards. The snowboarders
> are more like powerboats cutting off the sailboats/skiers.
> When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
Yes; generally it's a good skier, moving fast down a crowded
run, who mows down a beginning snowboarder who is turning across
the entire run instead of linking turns in the middle. Most
likely the skier expected the victim to turn instead of coming
all the way across. I also see lots of skier/skier crashes
caused the same way.
It's hard to avoid these type of collisions in the crowded local
mountains, and they happen both ways, with skiers and snowboarders
at fault, mostly caused by someone going too fast on a blue run
full of beginners.
The other problem with crowded local mtns is the packs of high
school age snowboarders who seem to find it necessary have all
10-20 of them sit down in the middle of runs and have a smoke
now and again. What's wrong with the sides?
--
Kevin Maguire
mag...@zappa.jpl.nasa.gov
Bruno Melli
: Some skiiers have the impression that snowboarding is some kind of alien
: sport guarranteed to cause a skiier to have an accidents at some point.
It is not just an impression, it is true and there is a simple explaination:
Boarders are ugly, and their mom dress them funny too (big pants that makes
them look like hobos) so skiers look at them. Well, you go where your eyes
point to so skiers end up plowing into the boarders they were looking at.
bruno.
Glen Baker
> We'll convert Baker yet.
Time to go to Utah.
..glen
Eugene N. Miya
Besides the content of your individual posts, you also control the
distribution and packaging of your posts. You have a little thing
called a Header which has lines like Newsgroups: or Followup-To:
and even fields which you might not see, but you can insert yourself.
There are header redirection wars in some groups (usually involving
gun, politics, or abortion posts). You edit the Subject field
(or don't). You can forge posts into moderated news groups.
And it is your responsibility, just like addressing a letter, to know
what's in your headers. And you should realize that if your are going
to attribute someone, you had best do it accurately and minimally.
Jim Graf
>In article <2uqn7s$f...@fido.asd.sgi.com> jms...@olson30.esd.sgi.com
>(John Sully) writes:
>>In article <2uqepe$a...@rosie.next.com>, sar...@next.com writes:
>>> As this thread illustrates, it's now almost high summer in the
>>> northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
>>> starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
>>>
>>> That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
>>>
>>> Time to go climbing.
>>
>>Time to go sailing.
>
>Time to circumnavigate Lake Tahoe in a kayak.....
>
I went to the 20 Lakes area of Inyo last weekend, and from Steelhead Lake,
I was looking at the snow covering on one set of peaks (don't know the
names). Coming down from the middle peak was a line, which went halfway
down the snow field and then took a right turn. I stared and stared and
really started jonesing for skiing. The snow that I found around was perfect
corn - firm underneath and soft on top. I really really started jonesing.
Then the chrondro malacia that I developed from skiing this year started
aching and brought me back to summer. Hiking a ridge to see what is on
the other side is almost as good as hiking to Estelle Bowl at Alpine - and
it's making my knees better for next season!
later,
jim
ps. is Mammoth closed now?
---
--
Jim Graf, Lsi Logic, jg...@lsil.com
Surf for joy, Ski for thrills, Blade for blood (I always bleed when I blade)
Tom Chatt
| In article <1994Jun25.2...@flood.com>, Tom Chatt <t...@flood.com> wrote:
| >This is bigotry pure and simple. It stems from either
| >stereotyping ("all snowboarders are young punks who have
| >no sense of mountain etiquette") or ignorance (they seem
| >dangerous and erratic to you because you're ignorant
| >of how a snowboarder is likely to maneuver, just as a
| >powerboater might be ignorant of what a sailboat is
| >likely to do).
|
| A bigot is one irrationally devoted to his own belief,
| whereas my opinions are based on careful observation
| and are well-differentiated and open to change.
I see. So "careful observation" leads you to say things like:
| When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
I've seen skiers run down snowboarders more often than I've
seen snowboarders run down skiers. I have to wonder how
careful your observation is, or whether this is really
"theory-filtered" observation, where the observations which
fit the prejudicial theory are remembered and those which
contradict it are forgotten.
And it is your "well-differentiated" opinion that leads
you to conclude that:
| because young morons (not all morons are young, nor are all the
| young morons) are considerably overrepresented among
| snowboarders. Perhaps you can tell me why this is so.
I can't tell you why it is so. It's just like those darned
women drivers. Now I'm not saying that all women are bad drivers,
or that there aren't men who are bad drivers. It's just my
well-differentiated opinion based on careful observation
that women are considerably overrepresented among bad drivers.
(Seriously, Daniel, can you tell me how your "rational"
opinion differs from such opinions about women drivers?)
I've made similar observations to yours, but have characterized
them differently. I find that morons are considerably
overrepresented among the young, skiers and boarders alike.
Perhaps Alpine Meadows should only sell lift tickets to
those over 30. I'm sure some people would enjoy the place
precisely because the young aren't allowed. You and I could
then board and ski together quite harmoniously.
| BTW, your metaphor is precisely backwards. The snowboarders
| are more like powerboats cutting off the sailboats/skiers.
| When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
| Why should I have to worry about a high speed arcing
| powerboat, when I'm out sailing? You also seem to
| suggest that I should be taking the path of a snowboard
| into account. This would only be true if I were overtaking
| the snowboard, or we were skiing side-by-side, or do
| you look upslope while you're skiing, oops, I mean
| boarding? One problem is that the snowboarders often overtake
| the skiers, and thus it is the snowboarders who should be
| considering the line that the skier is taking.
Speed and overtaking seem to be the actual concern here.
Actually, the faster "hot-shot" skiers and boarders are more
like the powerboats, while the beginning/intermediate boarders
and skiers (who are more constrained in their maneuverability)
are more like the sailboats. Or have your "careful observations"
(read: inclination to make prejudicial generalizations against
snowboarders) lead you to conclude that speed and wrecklessness are
overrepresented among snowboards too?
Especially on intermediate slopes, you will encounter skiers
and boarders moving at a wide variety of speeds. Anyone who
proceeds in blithe ignorance of what's going on upslope is
just as foolish as a pedestrian who steps right into a
crosswalk without looking for traffic. Yes, the downhill
skier has the right of way, but if you make any cross-slope
move without glancing uphill to see who you might be cutting
off, you're inviting trouble. (Does this perhaps explain
your apparent personal inclination for getting "mowed down"?)
I've found that since I took up snowboarding, I'm extra careful
to be looking *all* around me as I shred down the hill.
| Further, your attack on my knowledge has no basis in fact.
I didn't attack your knowledge. What I said was that anti-snowboard
bigotry, of which you were providing an example, is either based
on stereotyping or ignorance (or both). In your case, it seems
it's the former.
| Apologies for the bandwidth, but being called a bigot
| calls for a response.
Your detailed explanation of your "rational" opinion shows it
to be predicated on a set of generalizations, which are themselves
substantiated by nothing other than your personal observations,
which are notoriously subjective. (I don't mean *yours* in
particular, I mean anyone's personal observations.) These
generalizations include:
- snowboarders mow down skiers, but never the other way around
- snowboarders generally go faster than skiers
- young morons are overrepresented among snowboarders
- you are at less risk of being mowed down at a skiers-only resort
Your claims to the rationality of this particular opinion are
more dubious than you're admitting. What you really want are
more strictly-enforced speed limits, and the introduction of
minimum age limits and/or IQ tests for access to the slopes.
Snowboarders are just your convenient scapegoat.
Admittedly, "bigot" is a rather strong word. But also being a member
of a more seriously oppressed minority, I am quite familiar
with what it's like to be the target of bigotry, and I couldn't
help but notice the similarities.
--
Tom Chatt \ Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: t...@flood.com \ Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom / \ we oppress ourselves.
Daniel H. Silver
>dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Daniel H. Silver) writes:
>| In article <1994Jun25.2...@flood.com>, Tom Chatt <t...@flood.com> wrote:
>And it is your "well-differentiated" opinion that leads
>you to conclude that:
>
>| because young morons (not all morons are young, nor are all the
>| young morons) are considerably overrepresented among
>| snowboarders. Perhaps you can tell me why this is so.
>
>I can't tell you why it is so. It's just like those darned
>women drivers. Now I'm not saying that all women are bad drivers,
>or that there aren't men who are bad drivers. It's just my
>well-differentiated opinion based on careful observation
>that women are considerably overrepresented among bad drivers.
>(Seriously, Daniel, can you tell me how your "rational"
>opinion differs from such opinions about women drivers?)
Yes. The observations about women drivers are not true.
The observations about snowboarders are true. It's just
like saying that adolescents are overrepresented among
those who spray graffiti. It's really not controversial or
bigoted.
>
>I've made similar observations to yours, but have characterized
>them differently. I find that morons are considerably
>overrepresented among the young,
That sounds like real prejudice to me.
How exactly is your argument not bigotry against
the young, while my much more circumscribed statement is?
>Speed and overtaking seem to be the actual concern here.
>Actually, the faster "hot-shot" skiers and boarders are more
>like the powerboats, while the beginning/intermediate boarders
>and skiers (who are more constrained in their maneuverability)
>are more like the sailboats. Or have your "careful observations"
>(read: inclination to make prejudicial generalizations against
>snowboarders) lead you to conclude that speed and wrecklessness are
>overrepresented among snowboards too?
Wrecklessness? I don't think so. Many of the boarders I see
are pretty UNwreckless. At least I don't condemn
all of the young. Only the careless, inconsiderate,
and dangerous ones.
>Your claims to the rationality of this particular opinion are
>more dubious than you're admitting. What you really want are
>more strictly-enforced speed limits, and the introduction of
>minimum age limits and/or IQ tests for access to the slopes.
>Snowboarders are just your convenient scapegoat.
Yes I want speed limits. No, I don't want the introduction of
age limits in any way. Remember you're the one with a
generalization about the young, not me. No IQ tests!!
Yes, though, to a consideration-for-others requirement.
>Admittedly, "bigot" is a rather strong word. But also being a member
>of a more seriously oppressed minority, I am quite familiar
>with what it's like to be the target of bigotry, and I couldn't
>help but notice the similarities.
Well, this last one is such a minefield, I'm going to walk very
carefully. Is it possible, Tom, that your feelings have
led you to perceive my original posting through "theory-filtered"
glasses? All I said was let's keep Alpine skiers only. I
enjoy my day on the slopes more that way. You have a choice
of EVERY other ski area in all of Tahoe. Further, I'd be delighted
to support one boarder-only area.
BTW, this is the END of my participation in this thread.
Daniel H. Silver "Memory is a kind
Department of Psychology, UCB of accomplishment,
dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu a sort of renewal . . ."
Disclaimer: I am me not ucb W.C. Williams((((((((((((*))))))))))))
slinkster
to mow down who. I don't know how many times I've seen a beginner skier
barrel down the slope because they didn't know how to stop (in fact, my
mother was once mowed down by such a skier, who yelled, "Watch out" and
proceeded to raise his pole and point it towards her. It left a hell of
a nasty bruise after he crashed into her with it). But I've never seen
a beginner snowboarder barreling down any slope. Why? Because they
invariably catch an edge and fall after ten or twenty feet.
There are people in either camp who have no common sense. It's as simple
as that. I really don't think it's an issue of whether you're standing
on one piece of wood or two. I've seen plenty of instances in which skiers
and snowboarders share the slopes harmoniously. I've even seen skiers and
snowboarders in resort-sponsored contests together. There's plenty of
proof that the main problem is simply people's prejudices (although in
many areas, I suspect it doesn't help that the slopes are a little
overcrowded -- let's face it, if there are tons of people on the slopes,
even the best skier or snowboarder might have an accident).
--Mark
BARR DOUG
131P70000-PrestonD(DR2673)300 <den...@arriva1.dr.att.com> wrote:
>In article <2uqn7s$f...@fido.asd.sgi.com>, jms...@olson30.esd.sgi.com (John Sully) writes:
>|>
>|> In article <2uqepe$a...@rosie.next.com>, sar...@next.com writes:
>|> > As this thread illustrates, it's now almost high summer in the
>|> > northern hemisphere and people who enjoy playing in the snow are
>|> > starting to become a little stir-crazy (maybe a lot). ;-)
>|> >
>|> > That's why it's good to have some summer alternatives lined up.
>|> >
>|> > Time to go climbing.
>|>
>|> Time to go sailing.
>|>
>
> RollerBlades!!!
>
>--
Kayaking! Ski on the snow in the winter and boat on it in the summer!
It's like 12" of powder and it's first tracks the whole run!
Tom Johnstone
: In article <Cs54...@bigtop.dr.att.com>,
Surfing (a perfect wave's the only thing as good as perfect powder)
Skydiving (120 - 180 mph straight at the ground - YES!!)
Urs Bertschinger
> My favourite way to control for beginners trashing the mogul fields,
> which is even better than a minimum length requirement, is "No
> Rentals". This is based on the statistically valid correlation between
> beginners and rented gear, which at most resorts is easy to spot
> because they're all the same ugly white colour and have "Rental"
> painted across the top.
Whenever it's time to buy new skis, I spend a fair amount of time on various
rented demos (and sometimes I rent demos just for the heck of it). I assume
many boarders do this, as well. Does that mean you wouldn't let me try them
on mogul runs?
--
u...@objy.com
Crispin Cowan
Urs Bertschinger <u...@objy.com> wrote:
>cri...@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan)
>> My favourite way to control for beginners trashing the mogul fields,
>> which is even better than a minimum length requirement, is "No
>> Rentals". This is based on the statistically valid correlation between
>rented demos (and sometimes I rent demos just for the heck of it). I assume
>many boarders do this, as well. Does that mean you wouldn't let me try them
>on mogul runs?
Only if you're demo'ing the boring planks that say "Rentals" across the
top. You can't put a cop at the top of the run asking each individual
if they rented their gear. But you can look for the stock, identical
skis & boards that the rental shop at the base of the resort rents.
Experts demoing hot new skis won't trigger a reaction. Demos are
different from rentals.
Glen Baker
> Skydiving (120 - 180 mph straight at the ground - YES!!)
What...you never track?
.glen
Richard Merrill
:In article <1994Jun30.1...@objy.com>,
:Urs Bertschinger <u...@objy.com> wrote:
:>cri...@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan)
:>> My favourite way to control for beginners trashing the mogul fields,
:>> which is even better than a minimum length requirement, is "No
:>> Rentals". This is based on the statistically valid correlation between
:>Whenever it's time to buy new skis, I spend a fair amount of time on various
:>rented demos (and sometimes I rent demos just for the heck of it). I assume
:>many boarders do this, as well. Does that mean you wouldn't let me try them
:>on mogul runs?
:
:Only if you're demo'ing the boring planks that say "Rentals" across the
:top. You can't put a cop at the top of the run asking each individual
:if they rented their gear. But you can look for the stock, identical
:skis & boards that the rental shop at the base of the resort rents.
:Experts demoing hot new skis won't trigger a reaction. Demos are
:different from rentals.
What's next, fashion police for skis?
Some people can't afford or do not wish to buy their own skis.
A lot of people also buy used rental equipment to save money.
How about coming up with a realistic solution.
(If I had one, I'd suggest it....)
Andy May
cri...@csd.uwo.ca "Crispin Cowan" writes:
> I'm less dogmatic about the jib park. Skis also destroy jump shape
> there, but it isn't as critical. I understand that the principle
> reason for prohibiting skis from the jib park is safety:
> -skiers are more likely to injure themselves when catching
> major air
> -skiers are more likely to sue the resort when the injure
> themselves :-)
>
Come and ski in the Alps where no-one sues anyone. If you try a run beyond
your capabilities (and who doesn't) and damage yourself, then you have only
yourself to blame.
I like being treated as an adult.
Likewise, from what I have seen over the last couple of seasons, ski-ers
and snowboarders seem to be naturally avoiding each other. 'Boarders don't
seem to want skiers in their way or vice versa.
Andy
(who's a skiier not a snowboarder... but only through personal preference)
--
*****************************************************************************
* an...@argus.demon.co.uk * .sig file in for 30,000 *
* * message service. *
*****************************************************************************
Larry Blair
=In article <2ud2au$e...@pinyon.libre.com> g_r...@pinyon.libre.com (Giles Rider) writes:
=>Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
=
=p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
=try it, you'll never ski again."
That's because you'll either wrap yourself around a tree or a skier.
Seriously, boarders can't stop, can't turn, and ruin the slope. I've been run
over by too many out of control boarders (is there any other kind?). I don't
like Alpine very much, but their no-snowboard policy means the I will go
there.
Snowboards are the short-skis of the '90s. I wish that the various areas
would set up no-board slopes like they did for short-skis. I always get
pissed watching some twerp going down a slope too steep for him with his
board perpendicular to the fall-line, removing all the snow and chopping off
the bumps.
--
Larry Blair <l...@makesys.com>
John Vergo
|> Yes; generally it's a good skier, moving fast down a crowded
|> run, who mows down a beginning snowboarder who is turning across
|> the entire run instead of linking turns in the middle. Most
|> likely the skier expected the victim to turn instead of coming
|> all the way across. I also see lots of skier/skier crashes
|> caused the same way.
Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! A "good skier, moving fast down a crowded run, who mows
down a beginning snowboarder" is an oxyMORON. People seems to think they have
a "right" to ski as fast as they want, regardless of how many people are in
front of them. I NEVER come close to mowing anyone down because I adjust
my skiing to the conditions around me. Those conditions include people. If
the slopes are crowded I (GASP!!!) slow down, or (DOUBLE GASP!!!!) wait for
things to open up. I guess I just have this lunatic attitude that an enjoyable
run "at speed" is not worth risking serious injury or death to me or anyone
else.
John
Hugh Grierson
>Seriously, boarders can't stop, can't turn, and ruin the slope.
Seriously? Oh really?
>I don't
>like Alpine very much, but their no-snowboard policy means the I will go
>there.
Good. That's probably the best thing about this policy, it gives
skiers like you who dislike snowboarders somewhere to go so that
they're out of the way of other skiers who don't like skiers like
you. Like me.
--
Hugh Grierson hu...@fujitsu.co.nz 14C, sunny
Pat Croteau
[] Daniel H. Silver (dsi...@garnet.berkeley.edu) wrote:
[] : When have you ever seen a skier run down a snowboarder?
[]
[] Actually, lot's of times. I'm not certain that skiers don't hit *way*
[] more snowboarders than vice-versa. There are, of course, many causes though.
maybe because they always laydown in the middle of the trail just over a knoll?
or maybe the skier is inexperienced? or maybe the skier is very experienced?
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Patrick Croteau: pcro...@raynet.com, Menlo Park, CA (415)324-6431
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Dave Harsant
[...]
>What's next, fashion police for skis?
>Some people can't afford or do not wish to buy their own skis.
>A lot of people also buy used rental equipment to save money.
>How about coming up with a realistic solution.
>(If I had one, I'd suggest it....)
I don't think there is one, apart from skiing fields the beginners are
too terrified to try. It's just a case of grinning and bearing it. It
wouldn't be such a problem if people (and not just beginners or
intermediates) exercised some mogul etiquette (eg, not remaining
stationary in a line directly below someone who is obviously waiting
for the line to clear).
--
Dave Harsant,
Telstra Research Laboratories | d.ha...@trl.oz.au
Kenneth Quigley
snowboarders that I see in this post. You guys can't be serious
about snowboards or skis ruining snow conditions. I love to
ski in any conditions the hill will dish out. I don't care about
snowbords making doing this to moguls etc. The wind at Wildcat, NH
generally controls the conditions of the snow anyway.
Some of you folks need to lighten up a little bit and just
plain enjoy the sport. IMHO the sport of skiing includes
alpine, nordic, and snowboarding. These three as well
as other mountaineering sports have common interest and
need to co-exist. I say lets put this thread behind us and
move on to more interesting subjects.
Ken Q
P.S. To Crispin, The lips of half-pipes that I have skied have not
been damaged since the are made of a frozen white mass resembling
snow that has been shot from a nozzle mixing water and compressed
air.
Eugene N. Miya
>> We'll convert Baker yet.
In article <Cs6HM...@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> gl...@sr.hp.com (Glen Baker) writes:
> Time to go to xxxx.
Bite your tongue!
Why, Vail of course, yeah, that's the ticket.
One to the other.
One to the other.
One to the other.
One to the other.
Andrey P
>In article <Crvzu...@amd.com>, Mike Gleeson <mgle...@angelo.amd.com> wrote:
>=In article <2ud2au$e...@pinyon.libre.com> g_r...@pinyon.libre.com (Giles Rider) writes:
>=>Do you think Alpine Meadows Ski area should allow snowboarding?
>=
>=p.s., The most common comment to me from snowboarders: "As soon as you
>=try it, you'll never ski again."
>That's because you'll either wrap yourself around a tree or a skier.
>Seriously, boarders can't stop, can't turn, and ruin the slope. I've been run
Are you talking about beginner snowboarders? In this case beginner
skiers are no better. If you are talking about boarders in general, then
it's not true. I've seen a lot more skiers than snowboarders who either can't
or don't want to turn going down the mountain in a straight line running over
both skiers and snowboarders.
>over by too many out of control boarders (is there any other kind?). I don't
>like Alpine very much, but their no-snowboard policy means the I will go
>there.
Interesting, I skied for the same amount of time as I snowboarded
and while on skis I've never been run over by a snowboarder or skier, but I
have been run over twice by skiers while on a snowboard. I guess it's 50/50.
>--
>Larry Blair <l...@makesys.com>
--
Andrey