'94 Rollerblade models
Debi Fuchs
what people think of the '94 models so far. What do you
think about the new brakes? We desperately need a '94
reviews thread...or am I too early?
The models I'm considering so far (haven't tried on -- or
even seen, in some cases -- all of em' yet) include the
following (all Rollerblade brand):
Bravoblade GLX (love those straps, brakes, and memory
foam, hate those tiny wheels but I could fix that part)
Anyone have any comparisons of the Bravoblade style
straps vs. the Macroblade Equips?
Macroblade Equips (I think they were 93's -- love that
support, love those big wheels, miss that memory foam,
straps, and new brakes)
Aeroblades (haven't tried 'em yet, but I hear good
things about past models. Anyone know if the '94s have
straps like the Equipes or like the Bravoblades? Love
those big wheels, new brakes, memory foam).
If you have any advice for me specifically, here's my situation. Email or
posting is fine.
I __love__ to skate fast. I feel like I'm flyin'...
I'd like to get into some recreational racing this season.
I enjoy learning tricks. I've got an old pair of Zetras
(w/ upgraded bindings and wheels) to trash on stairs and
stuff, but I'd like my new skates to be fairly durable and
allow me to go through cones. Willing to sacrifice a bit
for speed if I have to.
I'm an intermediate skater, and planning to improve. Want
skates I'll grow into.
Joe Boutros
Jaclyn Easton
: I'm looking for a new pair of blades. I'd like to hear
: what people think of the '94 models so far. What do you
: think about the new brakes?
I'm am a super-beginner and I just bought the Rollerblade Aeroblades with
the ABT braking system. I believe that these are the top of the line
Rolleblades now...they list for $339 and I paid about $269 for them in L.A.
I love them and I love the brakes because you can keep all 8 wheels on
the ground and I don't have to think about the braking. I bought these
skates as an investment...I don't plan to buy another pair for sometime.
That's what I can tell you about my pair. Good luck.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
jac...@netcom.com * Jaclyn Easton * Los Angeles, California
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shawn Grammer
>From: ao...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jon Snook)
>Subject: Re: '94 models
>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 18:35:07 GMT
>In a previous article, jac...@netcom.com (Jaclyn Easton) says:
>>I'm am a super-beginner and I just bought the Rollerblade Aeroblades with
>>the ABT braking system. I believe that these are the top of the line
>>Rolleblades now...they list for $339 and I paid about $269 for them in L.A.
>>
>>I love them and I love the brakes because you can keep all 8 wheels on
>>the ground and I don't have to think about the braking. I bought these
>>skates as an investment...I don't plan to buy another pair for sometime.
>You do realise that you have got to be probably the first person to say
>something good about the ABT. You did mention that you're a beginner and I
>can see how such a skate would be good for a beginner but as you get
>better you're going to be stuck with the same skates with a brake that'll
>probably just get in the way. I'd personally say you made a bad investment
>but to each his/her own.
Whoa Jon!
The ABT can be racheted to a fixed position not unlike the "regular" break
that I have on my '92 Aeros. Since fixing the position is possible, I
postulate that the Aeros were not a bad investment at all, but a skate that
will allow for both beginner and advanced breaking techniques. The worst it
could do it teach bad breaking habits at the beginning, however....
Shawn
----------------------
Shawn Grammer "Violence sells, and we are
E-mail: lobby.ti.com the biggest customers..."
Opinions are blah blah blah blah - Me
Jaclyn Easton
: You do realise that you have got to be probably the first person to say
: something good about the ABT. You did mention that you're a beginner and I
: can see how such a skate would be good for a beginner but as you get
: better you're going to be stuck with the same skates with a brake that'll
: probably just get in the way. I'd personally say you made a bad investment
: but to each his/her own.
Before you flame me for what *you* consider a bad investment you obviously
don't know much about this braking system.
ABT is fully adjustable. I can make is as sensitive as I like. I still
have the option of traditional braking as well. I consider this braking
system to be a wonderful way of providing a little extra braking security
as I learn.
I'm 32 years old and am most interested in endurance skating -- 10-20
hauls. Nothing fancy. No tricks.
While I might be a beginner I *DID* do my homework as to the best skate
*for me* and resent your post that I made a "bad investment." (Besides
there is much more to the Aeroblade skate than it's braking system.)
In the future if you find you must criticize someone elses' choice without
any knowledge of their criteria, please keep you comments to private
E-mail.
Jaclyn Easton
Los Angeles, CA.
Andy Hill
> I'm am a super-beginner and I just bought the Rollerblade Aeroblades with
> the ABT braking system.
> I love them and I love the brakes because you can keep all 8 wheels on
> the ground and I don't have to think about the braking.
>
As a matter of curiousity, would you mind keeping us updating as to your
opinion of the ABT brake as you progress? To my eyes, it looks like it
would be easier for a rank beginner to use, but would be a real pain for
more advanced skating.
scottw
: You do realise that you have got to be probably the first person to say
: something good about the ABT. You did mention that you're a beginner and I
: can see how such a skate would be good for a beginner but as you get
: better you're going to be stuck with the same skates with a brake that'll
: probably just get in the way. I'd personally say you made a bad investment
: but to each his/her own.
She can always remove the ABT brake when she doesn't want it anymore.
That's probably the only thing the ABT has going for it. :)
: happy blading (hopefully)...
: --
: -/\- Jon Snook - ao...@freenet.carleton.ca -/\-
: -\/- "Wait a second....this isn't Kansas!" -\/-
--
*****************************************************************************
* Scott Weintraub - sco...@wam.umd.edu - * "See the cat? See the cradle?" *
* University of Maryland at College Park * --Newt, "Cat's Cradle" *
*****************************************************************************
* iN dREaMS i WalK wItH YoU * Gen-X and proud! Stay In-line! *
*****************************************************************************
Jon Snook
In a previous article, jac...@netcom.com (Jaclyn Easton) says:
>Jon Snook (ao...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>
>: You do realise that you have got to be probably the first person to say
>: something good about the ABT. You did mention that you're a beginner and I
>
>Before you flame me for what *you* consider a bad investment you obviously
>don't know much about this braking system.
>
>While I might be a beginner I *DID* do my homework as to the best skate
>*for me* and resent your post that I made a "bad investment." (Besides
>there is much more to the Aeroblade skate than it's braking system.)
>
>In the future if you find you must criticize someone elses' choice without
>any knowledge of their criteria, please keep you comments to private
>E-mail.
wow. I got much more flak for that comment of mine then I certainly
expected. I admit I was a little hasty. And a little forgetful. I forgot
about the fact that the ABT is adjustable. However, I agree with another
persons comment that while the ABT is adjustable it could teach bad
breaking habits.
And I also didn't mean to flame you. I was (what I thought) merely making
a humourous comment that few people have said good things about the ABT,
therefore making it a bad investment. No reason to take offence and I hope
you have years have happy 'blading.
Keep on rolling...
Jon Snook
In a previous article, jac...@netcom.com (Jaclyn Easton) says:
>I'm am a super-beginner and I just bought the Rollerblade Aeroblades with
>the ABT braking system. I believe that these are the top of the line
>Rolleblades now...they list for $339 and I paid about $269 for them in L.A.
>
>I love them and I love the brakes because you can keep all 8 wheels on
>the ground and I don't have to think about the braking. I bought these
>skates as an investment...I don't plan to buy another pair for sometime.
You do realise that you have got to be probably the first person to say
something good about the ABT. You did mention that you're a beginner and I
can see how such a skate would be good for a beginner but as you get
better you're going to be stuck with the same skates with a brake that'll
probably just get in the way. I'd personally say you made a bad investment
but to each his/her own.
happy blading (hopefully)...
Thomas Grant Edwards
> Bravoblade GLX (love those straps, brakes, and memory
> foam, hate those tiny wheels but I could fix that part)
Course, you better like that brake since it isn't going anywhere...
Bravos come with sub-ABEC-1 bearings, right?
> Aeroblades (haven't tried 'em yet, but I hear good
> things about past models. Anyone know if the '94s have
> straps like the Equipes or like the Bravoblades? Love
> those big wheels, new brakes, memory foam).
I think these do come with ABEC-1 bearings...
-Thomas
Rick Langlois
>From: tedw...@eng.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards)
>Subject: Re: '94 Rollerblade models
>Date: 2 May 1994 08:39:01 GMT
>-Thomas
Right, according to the Rollerblade brochure the Bravoblade GL & GLX come with
ABEC 1 bearings. The plain Bravoblade comes with "semi-percision" bearings.
Rick
Christine Lukacs
I've been a figure skater for years and have played a little hockey.
I got in-lines a few years ago, and really enjoy them. I'm not really
up on the technology of them though. Having read many related posts,
I'm really curious about how different they would feel if I rockered
them. Here's the problem. I have really little feet, which means
really little skates. My size 5 Lightnings only have three wheels
each. Has anybody out there ever rockered three wheel skates?
-Christine
Paul Kingsbury
Rick Langlois <ric...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Right, according to the Rollerblade brochure the Bravoblade GL & GLX come with
>ABEC 1 bearings. The plain Bravoblade comes with "semi-percision" bearings.
>
I wouldn't take the Rollerblade brochure as gospel. The brochure
says that the TRS's have ABEC-1 bearings, but when I was cleaning mine they
saied something like 608-Z instead. Maybe I got a bum pair of skates, but
still...
Paul
Andy Hill
> I wouldn't take the Rollerblade brochure as gospel. The brochure
> says that the TRS's have ABEC-1 bearings, but when I was cleaning mine they
> saied something like 608-Z instead. Maybe I got a bum pair of skates, but
> still...
>
single-shielded bearing. It's hard to tell what the precision is from
looking at the bearing. ABEC-3 and -5's tend to have a small 3 or 5 stamped
on the shield, but not always. ABEC-1 bearings usually do not have their
precision stamped.
Rick Langlois
>From: king...@babel.ling.upenn.edu (Paul Kingsbury)
>Subject: Re: '94 Rollerblade models
>Paul
Check out FAQ. part 2.
It has a lot of info. on bearings.
I just took another look at it myself :-)
Rick
Rick Langlois
Joe Boutros
Kevin Carothers
: In article <2q5sk8$9...@netnews.upenn.edu> king...@babel.ling.upenn.edu (Paul Kingsbury) writes:
: >From: king...@babel.ling.upenn.edu (Paul Kingsbury)
: >Subject: Re: '94 Rollerblade models
: >Date: 3 May 1994 16:03:20 GMT
:
: >In article <rickjl.83...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>,
: >Rick Langlois <ric...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
:
: >>Right, according to the Rollerblade brochure the Bravoblade GL & GLX come with
: >>ABEC 1 bearings. The plain Bravoblade comes with "semi-percision" bearings.
: >>
:
: > I wouldn't take the Rollerblade brochure as gospel. The brochure
: >says that the TRS's have ABEC-1 bearings, but when I was cleaning mine they
: >saied something like 608-Z instead. Maybe I got a bum pair of skates, but
: >still...
[---]
: Check out FAQ. part 2.
: It has a lot of info. on bearings.
: I just took another look at it myself :-)
[---]
I'm sure this has been hashed out a bazillion times, but is there
REALLY any difference between ABEC-1 and "semi-precision" bearings in
this particular "application" (skating)? I've been reading up on
bearing applications, and they recommend ABEC-1's for applications
"typically" running at 5000 RPM's (dentist drills use ABEC-1's).
I mean, hey. Take a 72mm wheel (~2.83 inches), at 10 mph:
((10mph * 5280 * 12") / (2.83 * Pi)) / 60min = 1187.75 RPMs
You'd have to go 35 mph before you start pushing the designed
application. Maybe all that downward weight adds to the application,
but I simply don'y see that many skaters going that fast!
Can someone clue me in on what I'm missing in all this bearing-rating
controversy? It seems like the *REAL* controversy should be what
kind of *BEARING LUBRICATION* skaters should be using. Just my
analytical self speaking here...
--
Kevin Carothers ke...@drogges.tti.com
Marcin Skubiszewski
> I'm sure this has been hashed out a bazillion times, but is there
> REALLY any difference between ABEC-1 and "semi-precision" bearings in
> this particular "application" (skating)? I've been reading up on
> bearing applications, and they recommend ABEC-1's for applications
> "typically" running at 5000 RPM's (dentist drills use ABEC-1's).
>
> I mean, hey. Take a 72mm wheel (~2.83 inches), at 10 mph:
>
> ((10mph * 5280 * 12") / (2.83 * Pi)) / 60min = 1187.75 RPMs
>
> You'd have to go 35 mph before you start pushing the designed
> application. Maybe all that downward weight adds to the application,
> but I simply don'y see that many skaters going that fast!
I believe that the weight you put on a bearing is essential for its
performance. You can't even compare a dentist drill at 5000 RPM with
your skates at 5000 RPM with your weight on them.
Also, consider that for a dentist's drill, it is OK to loose in the
bearings 1% of the power: you just have to use a slightly stronger
engine and burn slightly more electricity. This is less expensive than
upgrading bearings. While racing on skates, a loss of 1% of the energy
can make you arrive 10th instead of 1st.
Kevin Carothers
Well, at least I got the math right :-) Anyway, I called SKF, Inc. and
talked to them. The guy I talked to was quite familiar with the skate
market. He said that the ABEC-1 bearings supplied in skate stores
are not the same quality as those provided in industrial applications.
An SKF ABEC-3 608 bearing from SKF (ONE, mind you) costs $95.00. An
ABEC-9 bearing will cost you over $2000.00!! That would be one
expensive pair of skates, and they would probably work worse than
an off-the shelf pair, because the application is completely wrong.
The gist of the matter is, in the opinion of the SKF engineer, there
is a lot of "hype" in the skate bearing market. These bearings are, in
his view, "semi-precision", by virtue of their price and quality
control -- which isn't to say that SOME, if not a large majority of
the skate bearings aren't up to ABEC-1 standards; just that you can't
guarantee this by industrial standarsds.
Nobody wants to spend $10,000 for skates, and everyone is clamoring for
ABEC standard bearings -- What we receive is a marketing
equilibrium... super-cheap ABEC-1's, which should probably called
ABEC-.5 :-)
--
Kevin Carothers ke...@drogges.tti.com
George Robbins
608-Z is a code that refers to the size of the bearing "608" and the type of
shield "Z". Often if they are AEBC-X, there will be a small X somewhere on
the shield, but the lack of such doesn't prove anything either way.
All bearings get worse as time and grit do their thing, so the value of the
AEBC rating in skate use is fairly transitory!
--
George Robbins - now working for, work: to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing: uucp: ...!rutgers!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department domain: g...@cbmvax.commodore.com
George Robbins
Yes, you should be able to rocker them, but the effect will be a bit
strange. When you rocker a 4-wheel skate, you are left with a short-
wheelbase, but still a stable balance on two center wheels.
On a 3-wheel skate, if only the center wheel sticks out, there is no
middle position, except if you master rolling only only the center
wheels - this might be fun, but it might be two twitchy for comfort.
If you can raise only the front wheel or don't mind the slightly toe-up
feeling with the center wheel down, you can try to ride on the two rear
wheels for most skating and only rock onto the front pair when you want
to do something toe-weighted.
You can also play with leaving the center wheel out and see if you like
this feels - it's your own business. Unless you are real light, you might
also want somewhat harder wheels when you rocker the skates, but worry
about this only after you experiment a bit, if they feel "slow".
Finally, you may wish to look at upgrading to better skates in the future.
Most of the higher-end skates stick with 4-wheel rails even in size 5, but
use smaller wheels. For an experienced figure skater, this is probably a
better compromise than 3-wheels, especially if you can't rocker them to
your satisfaction!
George Robbins
>
> I'm sure this has been hashed out a bazillion times, but is there
> REALLY any difference between ABEC-1 and "semi-precision" bearings in
> this particular "application" (skating)? I've been reading up on
> bearing applications, and they recommend ABEC-1's for applications
> "typically" running at 5000 RPM's (dentist drills use ABEC-1's).
>
> I mean, hey. Take a 72mm wheel (~2.83 inches), at 10 mph:
>
> ((10mph * 5280 * 12") / (2.83 * Pi)) / 60min = 1187.75 RPMs
>
> You'd have to go 35 mph before you start pushing the designed
> application. Maybe all that downward weight adds to the application,
> but I simply don'y see that many skaters going that fast!
>
> Can someone clue me in on what I'm missing in all this bearing-rating
> controversy? It seems like the *REAL* controversy should be what
> kind of *BEARING LUBRICATION* skaters should be using. Just my
> analytical self speaking here...
The answer is maybe. The issue is that a "semi-precision" is a description,
not a specification, this a semi-precision bearing has no minimum manufacturing
tolerances / quality level, while one that is AEBC rated does.
The usual reasons for using the higher AEBC rated bearings are when the machine
involved needs to meet particular mechanical tolerance or vibration levels, or
operate a high speed, *not* for minimum rolling resistance. The speed issue is
a bit indirect, but basically at the point where the balls stop rolling nicely
between the inner and outer races and skid or bounce, the bearing isn't going
to last long or maintain it's precision.
As far as rolling resistance, some of the looser tolerances can translate into
increased drag, either internal to the bearing or due to mis-alignment of the
wheel with the direction of travel. Also, it will be harder to adjust the
axle bolts for a good minimum play/minimum drag compromise.
The sad thing is that there hasn't been any scientific studies done on the
actual rolling resistance of the different grades of bearings under real
skating operation/loading conditions, not on how long on say an AEBC-5
bearing takes to deteriorate to AEBC-1 or 3 tolerances under typical skating
use and grit/lubrication conditions.
There does exist plenty of lubrication controversy, but this is confused by
the issues of initial vs. broken-in rolling resistance and the difference
between real loaded rolling resistance and unloaded "spin" time. Again
outside of the lubrication recommendations by the bearing manufacturers,
there's little scientific study of skating requirments.
It's well to keep in mind that the requirements of a real racing skater and
your typical recreational skater differ. The racing skater will pay a bit
extra for something thay may give them just a hairs edge, they will replace
the bearings long before they are "worn" and are willing to clean/oil the
bearing before each race. They may even get the fancy bearings free in
exchange for some formal or informal promotional consideration.
The recreational skater will pay extra if the new bearings seem to make
him go faster or just make him feel better about his skates. He'll use
them until some get screwed up or it seems like time for another upgrade.
Cleaning and re-lubrication often infrequent or delayed until it's
obviously well past time.
Consquently, the racer or wanna-be can justify the high-precision bearings
and oil lubrication, while the recreational user may get only transient
value for the extra investment and may be better off with low-maintenance
grease lubrication.
George Robbins
Just to provide some alternate information, I looked up similar bearings
in a couple industrial supply catalogs.
Generic "Industrial" AEBC-1 rated 608 Bearings - $2.75
Precision AEBC-7 Bearings 3/8"* bore - $8.50
Add about 20-50% for inflation, since the catalogs are a few years old.
* this is the next larger size than 608, but the prices generally
increase with size except for very small bearings.
Now you might ask why there seems to be such a big difference between
industrial commodity prices and your SKF source... First SKF is a
premium quality name-brand european (Swiss I think) source. Second
there are about 8 independent variables to specify when ordering a
bearing from a manufacturer in addition to the AEBC rating. Third,
the quantity-one prices quoted by the manufacturer may not be very
representative of retail pricing.
If you want to pursue the pricing end of it further, I'd recommend
talking to an outlet like your local "Bearings, Inc" outlet to get some
idea of the prices sold from stock.
I've done a little research on the nature of the AEBC standard, but
haven't gotten to the root of it yet. One issue is that by the time
the bearings get into retail packaging, you no longer know exactly what
AEBC means - are your bearings really "tested" to verify that all
measurements and operating chracteristic actually meet the spec?
The other thing of note is that the AEBC specifications basically
address how well the bearings fit/work in precision applications, wnen
mounted according to specification. The problem is that the skate
application is not "precisions" and the bearings aren't correctly set
up for maximum precision performance.
A lot of the spec has to do with the basic dimensions of the bearings
which translate into wheel-axle fit, the hub is comformable so that
dimension is non-critical, and most axle fits are incredibly sloppy in
comparison to even the AEBC-1 specs. A correct fit would imply that
the bearing has to be heated slightly or pressed onto the axle.
The key operating specifications have to do with radial and axial
"runout". which translates to the degree that the shaft will be
off-center, and that the bearing will wiggle along the shaft.
The key thing to notes is that this is with the bearing operating in a
"pre-loaded" manner, which is to say that there's some kind of constant
side-load that keeps the bearing always running on one side of the
inner/outer races, regardless of externally applied radial and axial
forces. This is not the condition of least rolling friction and skate
bearings are not "correctly" preloaded to achieve the rated precision.
The closest you can get is using the often derided nylon spacer as a
deformable spring element!
Finally, with regard to to the no pre-load situation, it is useful to
note that the "radial clearance" of the bearing is *not* part of the
AEBC specification, rather it's something which you can specifiy as a
range when when you order bearings direct from the manufacturer. This
is really the degree to which the innner race is "loose" in the
bearing, which translates into side play and potential angular
mis-alignment with the bearings on the axle- frame-hub assembly.
Note however that the typical application does force certain mechanical
and geometric constraints on the bearings, so the direct effect of
small amounts of radial clearance on the overall running friction of
the wheel assembly is difficult to assess. Also a bearing with the
"ideal" zero radial clearance may display more initial friction and be
more sensitive to lubrication and contamination than one of nominal
clearance.
This issue is related to "Da Yakman's" subjective figure of merit for
"lateral wobble", but he hasn't made the case for minimal radial
clearance making for best operation, nor for the "quality control" of
his bearing manufacturer. If he'd care to post or forward the actual
manufacturer/ specifications he's ordering to, it might help clarify
matters.
There's really a good Mechanical Engineering research project here, in
relating bearing tolerances to rolling friction in the in-line skate
application and further relating that to other efficiency issues such
as wheel rolling resistance and skate/frame flex. Other research areas
are optimim lubrication, net effect of pre-loading or other changes to
the wheel/hub/axle assembly.