If shark diving is so dangerous, I may not make the shark diving workshop this Tuesday in Florida...
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt
edition of ScubaRadio. We will be diving with big toothy sharks that have
been hand fed on a regular basis.
Picardi and his spearfishing buddies are hoping we'll be eaten live on the
radio! Unfortunately for them, we won't be spearfishing....so we have
nothing to worry about....;-p
See ya Tuesday!
I'd rather be diving,
Greg The Divemaster
Cyberdiver
What will we hear?
Bubble, Bubble, Bubble Ooooops Ahgggggg!!!!!
And now we resume our normal broadcast with Don Ho singing 'Tiny Bubbles'...
--
cyber...@netzero.net
Being wet on the Net can be an Electrifrying experience.[\]
It's not what you know, It's who knows you.
""Greg The Divemaster" Holt" <gr...@scubaradio.com> wrote in message
news:8a9d5.7088$IZ1....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
Lee Bell
> We will be conducting a live broadcast from underwater for this Saturday's
> edition of ScubaRadio. We will be diving with big toothy sharks that have
> been hand fed on a regular basis.
> Picardi and his spearfishing buddies are hoping we'll be eaten live on the
> radio! Unfortunately for them, we won't be spearfishing....so we have
> nothing to worry about....;-p
Hmmmm, perhaps it's time for me to do a bit of fishing. Wonder where I put
all that chum I've been collecting. Anyone interested in filming a feeding
frenzy?
Stephen Picardi
By the way, a few of the South Florida Spearfishing Club members want to
speak to you about your show tune remark.
Remember Greg, like the disclaimer you sign says: Keep your fingers to
yourself and DON"T SPLASH AT THE SURFACE.
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt <gr...@scubaradio.com> wrote in message
news:8a9d5.7088$IZ1....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
> We will be conducting a live broadcast from underwater for this Saturday's
> edition of ScubaRadio. We will be diving with big toothy sharks that have
> been hand fed on a regular basis.
>
> Picardi and his spearfishing buddies are hoping we'll be eaten live on the
> radio! Unfortunately for them, we won't be spearfishing....so we have
> nothing to worry about....;-p
>
Stephen Picardi
You wouldn't call nurse sharks "toothy" would you Greg? Jeff says they have
no teeth.
NE333RO
>By the way, a few of the South Florida Spearfishing Club members want to
>speak to you about your show tune remark.
Speaking of annoying pests, I don't much appreciate you spamming me. While
I happen to agree with your side of the issue and did sign your petition last
year, I don't believe that your reasons are overly altruistic. Whats in it for
you?
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt
By the way, for someone who claims that shark diving is "dangerous,"
wouldn't you think they would have first hand knowledge of this activity?
Unfortunately, Stephen has never participated in a organized shark dive or
has even dived a site where the animals are fed....this is by his own
admission! Yet he continues to present himself as an authority on the
issue...Interestingly enough, the vast majority of divers who have
participated in this activity don't seem to share Stephen's view.
I guess you can understand Stephen's point of view when you consider his
only experience with sharks has been when he was diving with a speared fish
on the end of his gun.
I'd rather be diving,
Greg The Divemaster
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt
Hammerheads as well. You'll have to listen Saturday to find out the
location...(it's not with Jeff)
I would tell you, but I'd rather protect you and your club from getting
eaten....just leave the big scary sharks to us...;-)
Stephen Picardi
didn't need someone to bait them in to enjoy them. It's remarkable to see
sharks behaving naturally, cruising the reef, not biting down on old chunk
of ballyhoo or hot dog from a feeder or frenzied, fighting for a bite of
frozen rotten fish from a chumsicle.
Even though you never spearfished and have asked me to teach you, I don't
find it surprising you claim to be such an authority on spearfishing. It
corresponds with your character.
Divemaster Greg, the average survey numbers are about 7-1 against feeding
marine life. Even the shark feeders have excoriated your buddy Jeff who
hand feeds sharks, barracudas, moray eels and anything else that swims.
My recommendation: Sell that Cheez Wiz stock
And lastly, a challenge:
You announce on the radio that you refuse to sign the disclaimer that
exonerates Jeff from liability if you get injured during the dive.
If you do that, I may even listen to your little radio show.
Keep your hands clenched Divemaster Greg, those morays are nearsighted and
remember, no splashing at the surface.
--
Stephen Picardi
http://sharkfeeding.net
Ban Shark Feeidng
A fed shark is a dead shark.
""Greg The Divemaster" Holt" <gr...@scubaradio.com> wrote in message
news:4%Cd5.7632$IZ1....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
> I'd rather be diving,
> Greg The Divemaster
> www.scubaradio.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Stephen Picardi
marine life from becoming beggars and being killed for it.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I have removed you name from our email list.
"NE333RO" <ne3...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000720003616...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
NE333RO
Thankyou
Lee Bell
> By the way, for someone who claims that shark diving is "dangerous,"
> wouldn't you think they would have first hand knowledge of this activity?
> Unfortunately, Stephen has never participated in a organized shark dive or
> has even dived a site where the animals are fed....this is by his own
> admission! Yet he continues to present himself as an authority on the
> issue...Interestingly enough, the vast majority of divers who have
> participated in this activity don't seem to share Stephen's view.
That may or may not be true of Stephen (I doubt it, but don't know for
sure), but it's certainly not true of me. I have been on shark feeding
dives and have experienced shark encounters where no feeding was involved.
Most importantly, however, I've been diving in places where shark feeding is
or was conducted at times when there was no feeding occurring.
Anyone who believes that shark feeding does not change the shark's behavior
and, more specifically, it's attitude toward divers really needs to think
again. It's not chance that causes them to show up for a feeding, it's
altered behavior. It's also not chance that keeps sharks in former feeding
areas months and even years after feeding has ceased or that makes them
congregate near divers in hopes of food they don't have to work for.
It's not chance that southern stingrays, a close relative of sharks,
congregate at the Sandbar and Stingray City areas of the Grand Cayman sound.
It's not chance that those same stingrays have learned that hitting a
snorkel will flood a mask and get a diver to release the food he's holding
or that brings the yellow tails in close to divers, some of whom have been
bit because the fish have learned that biting the hand that holds the bait
results in release of the bait.
Anyone who claims that feeding marine does not alter behavior is just about
as honest in their effort to ensure their own profits as the tobacco
companies who until very recently continued to maintain that cigarette are
not habit forming and that they don't contribute to cancer.
> > I guess you can understand Stephen's point of view when you consider his
> > only experience with sharks has been when he was diving with a speared
> > fish on the end of his gun.
I have not experienced this. . . yet. While I've been known to spearfish
occasionally, I've never had a shark take sufficient interest in a speared
fish to overcome it's natural reluctance to approach a diver. Thanks to
those who have already changed shark behavior by feeding them, often at the
end of a spear, it's unlikely that I'll continue to be so fortunate. Worse
for any shark that choses to agressively take what feeders have taught him
is his, there's a fair chance the shark won't survive an encounter that
causes me to feel threatened. Thanks to the more agressive behavior of
sharks that have been fed, I recently started carrying a bankstick for
protection for the first time in almost 40 years of diving in South Florida.
So far, it's been decorative. I hope that continues. Thanks, shark
feeders.
Lee
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt
know you have a bang stick to keep yourself from getting gummed to death.
It's interesting on how you present yourself as some kind of fish
psychic...you write:
"It's not chance that those same stingrays have learned that hitting a
snorkel will flood a mask and get a diver to release the food he's holding
or that brings the yellow tails in close to divers, some of whom have been
bit because the fish have learned that biting the hand that holds the bait
results in release of the bait."
If this is true, these must be the smartest rays and yellow tails in the
world!
Lee Bell
> Since Nurse sharks are the only sharks being fed in your area. It's good
to
> know you have a bang stick to keep yourself from getting gummed to death.
1. Nurse sharks are not the only sharks that have been fed in my area.
2. Nurse sharks have teeth too. Don't believe it, pull on one's tail.
> It's interesting on how you present yourself as some kind of fish
> psychic...you write:
> "It's not chance that those same stingrays have learned that hitting a
> snorkel will flood a mask and get a diver to release the food he's holding
> or that brings the yellow tails in close to divers, some of whom have been
> bit because the fish have learned that biting the hand that holds the bait
> results in release of the bait."
Not psychic, just observant and with no financial interest in feeding
sharks.
> If this is true, these must be the smartest rays and yellow tails in the
> world!
Perhaps they are. As far as I know, there's no IQ test for fish. I didn't
originate this one. It's part of the briefing given by at least one
operator in Cayman and was confirmed by those who chose to wear a snorkel
anyway or carelessly left their fingers protruding while feeding the rays.
For what it's worth, the Seargent Majors are velcro trained by divers that
feed them often. All it takes to gather a crowd is to pull open a velcro
closed pocket. I've confirmed this one personally.
Lee
Fishbre396
<lee...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Not psychic, just observant and with no financial interest in feeding
>sharks.
>
>> If this is true, these must be the smartest rays and yellow tails in the
>> world!
>
>Perhaps they are. As far as I know, there's no IQ test for fish. I didn't
>originate this one. It's part of the briefing given by at least one
>operator in Cayman and was confirmed by those who chose to wear a snorkel
>anyway or carelessly left their fingers protruding while feeding the rays.
>For what it's worth, the Seargent Majors are velcro trained by divers that
>feed them often. All it takes to gather a crowd is to pull open a velcro
>closed pocket. I've confirmed this one personally.
>
Obviously, you've only done this dive once, and have only had one guide. Scuba
Divers, diving with Stingrays don't use snorkles, so even if the rays decide to
hit the snorkle it's not going to matter. Seems to me that the ones swimming
above SCUBA divers would be the ones in trouble. <g>
Seargent Majors will bite without food.
Fishbre396
>Nurse sharks have teeth too. Don't believe it, pull on one's tail.
>
Gee, and I can only hope that all SCUBA divers are taught to do this? NOT!
Lee Bell
"Lee Bell" writes:
>
> >Nurse sharks have teeth too. Don't believe it, pull on one's tail.
> >
> Gee, and I can only hope that all SCUBA divers are taught to do this? NOT!
You took my statement out of context. Greg, the shark feeding advocate dive
master suggested that the only shark feeding going on in S. Florida is for
nurse sharks and that the only danger they represent is that they might gum
a diver to death. As far as I am concened, Greg is welcome to pull on a
nurse shark's tail, preferably a large one. The extent of misinformation
he's put out in his own interest and contrary to everyone else's interest
reduces my concern if/when he reaps the consequences of his own actions.
All other divers are advised to refrain from molesting sharks of any kind,
both for the shark's sake and their own.
Lee
Lee Bell
> >Perhaps they are. As far as I know, there's no IQ test for fish. I
didn't
> >originate this one. It's part of the briefing given by at least one
> >operator in Cayman and was confirmed by those who chose to wear a snorkel
> >anyway or carelessly left their fingers protruding while feeding the
rays.
> >For what it's worth, the Seargent Majors are velcro trained by divers
that
> >feed them often. All it takes to gather a crowd is to pull open a velcro
> >closed pocket. I've confirmed this one personally.
> >
>
> Obviously, you've only done this dive once, and have only had one guide.
Scuba
> Divers, diving with Stingrays don't use snorkles, so even if the rays
decide to
> hit the snorkle it's not going to matter. Seems to me that the ones
swimming
> above SCUBA divers would be the ones in trouble. <g>
Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. In fact, I've done the
dive several times with more than one operator. Divers, diving with
Stingrays don't use snorkles "today", but that doesn't mean that this has
always been the case. Traditionally, every agency around considered a
snorkel to be required equipment on every dive. The stingray dives on Grand
Cayman was the first time I heard anyone suggest leaving the snorkel on
board during an open water dive. That was quite a few years ago and was not
on my first trip to the island. Stick around long enough and you'll see
changes like this too.
Still, the question was not whether one should wear a snorkel or not but
whether the stingrays had modified their behavior because of the feeding
operation on the island. I think that answer's pretty clear.
> Seargent Majors will bite without food.
Generally only during their mating and egg protecting season. Other Damsel
fish are a lot more agressive. Sergeant Majors are the least agressive of
the Damsel fish family. Again, however, you missed the point. Where fish
are often fed, they learn to respond to signals that they are about to be
fed again. In some places, Grand Cayman being one of them, signals include
pulling a velcro pocket open. Hoards of Sergeant Majors move off the reef
and close to the diver. I never mentioned that they bite. In midwater,
I've never seen them so so.
Lee
gregg...@radian.com
practice that wildlife biologists typically do not endorse for many
reasons. For an analagous situation, refer to the National Parks
Service policy prohibiting the feeding of bears.
Shark feeds provide sensationalism and profits, they are no more
representative of natural animal behavior than cockfighting or
bullriding.
In article <8a9d5.7088$IZ1....@iad-read.news.verio.net>,
"\"Greg The Divemaster\" Holt" <gr...@scubaradio.com> wrote:
> We will be conducting a live broadcast from underwater for this
Saturday's
> edition of ScubaRadio. We will be diving with big toothy sharks that
have
> been hand fed on a regular basis.
>
> Picardi and his spearfishing buddies are hoping we'll be eaten live
on the
> radio! Unfortunately for them, we won't be spearfishing....so we have
> nothing to worry about....;-p
>
> See ya Tuesday!
>
> I'd rather be diving,
> Greg The Divemaster
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt
only shark feeding going on in S. Florida is for nurse sharks"
This is true...unless you have proof otherwise....If you do, please be
specific....and don't forget to include the name of the operator, the date,
and the species of shark.
Also keep in mind, what George Burgess shared with me...(manager of the
international shark attack files...and no fan of shark diving)...He said,
"if feeding stops, sharks would loose any conditioned response from a shark
feed operation after a few weeks/months"...assuming any response had been
created.
Scott J. McFadden
<snip>
How is the "boot recreational fisherman", "recreational lobster hunters" and
"recreational spearfishermen" out of Broward County waters campaign going Greg?
You know, "The Greater Fort Lauderdale Marine Sanctuary".
IGFA Headquarters, huh?
A most appropriate place.
Good Luck, you will need it.
--
SJM
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt
see President Clintons executive order.
Scott J. McFadden <sjm...@aol.comex> wrote in message
news:20000723184329...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
GHorn82707
had a copy of a shark feed tape on board. While watching the tape, I started
to notice a very agitated behavior start to appear in the sharks. The quick
tail twitch and the lowered fins. I remarked that this didn't look good and
that possibly someone could get bitten. Sure enough one of the feeders got
bitten and you could see the filimentous blood trail and hear the scream. The
crew removed the tape and said it should not have been on the boat. We
actually went to the dive site that this was filmed at and had the sharks
swimming around us looking for food handouts. Luckily nothing happened, but as
you said Lee what happens when the diver goes down and a shark becomes a little
more aggressive? Who knows, either can be hurt or killed. I for one am
against shark feeding.
George R Horn
Owner Scuba Divine
Horn's Cycle Service
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 647 1089
www.scubadivine.com
GHorn82707
>Since Nurse sharks are the only sharks being fed in your area. It's good to
>know you have a bang stick to keep yourself from getting gummed to death.
>
I have seen other sharks fed also and nurse sharks also have teeth or haven't
you noticed?
>It's interesting on how you present yourself as some kind of fish
>psychic...you write:
>"It's not chance that those same stingrays have learned that hitting a
>snorkel will flood a mask and get a diver to release the food he's holding
>or that brings the yellow tails in close to divers, some of whom have been
>bit because the fish have learned that biting the hand that holds the bait
>results in release of the bait."
You don't have to be a physic to see creatures do just as he describes. They
see the hand and know it has food, they nip the hand and it releases the food,
not smart just learned behavior. Maybe you should get off the radio and go
diving. Maybe then you will observe what is apparently obvious to the rest of
us.
GHorn82707
the nurse shark would gum you, tell that to the idiots that have molested them
and gotten bit. Lee was absolutely right and you are not paying attention to
the thread.
H NED Huntzinger
>
> psychic...you write:
> "It's not chance that those same stingrays have learned that hitting a
> snorkel will flood a mask and get a diver to release the food he's holding
> or that brings the yellow tails in close to divers, some of whom have been
> bit because the fish have learned that biting the hand that holds the bait
> results in release of the bait."
>
> world!
Actually its a very natural process called evolution: any action or
behaviour that breeds success will be passed along:
Monkeys who use sticks to "fish" for ants
Bears in Yosemete who break into automobiles for food
Leaf cutting ants
Damselfish who raise algae gardens
FWIW, the yellowtails used to be fed on Little Cayman, until there was
one too many opportunistic baracuda predation accidents injuring
divers. Of course, this was also back in the days before the local
Rotary Baracuda fishing tournament and a "Small" baracuda was a 5
footer...the 'banana cuda' that used to hang out under the Cayman
Aggressor was estimated at over 8 feet long.
Today, if you go to Little Cayman, on some of these alledgedly
"pristine" dive sites along Bloody Bay wall, you will find unnatural
concentrations of Nassau Groupers all standing on their head just
begging to be petted...or so it seems.
Then you find out that what they're really after is that they're
hovering over coral heads with squirrelfish in them and that they've
learned to tolerate the petting because a few of the local DM's are
rewarding this behaviour by reaching into coral heads and pulling out
squirrelfish to feed them.
I've been diving these reefs for over a decade. The behavor has been
around in isolated cases for a long time, but within the past ~2 years,
the population of groupers who now do "Tricks" has quite literally
exploded...IMO, its been around a 500% increase, possibly even more.
Now you explain to me why a reef that used to have 2-3 groupers on it
that for some reason today now holds closer to 20.
-hh
Brian Wagner
>
> Actually its a very natural process called evolution: any action or
> behaviour that breeds success will be passed along:
It's not evolution, it's conditioning. Genetics do not enter the
equation. Optopi have been shown to learn complex problem solving
behaviors from observing another octopus perform them.
Stephen Picardi
"Shark Parks" right Greg?
Sorry, that order was to protect CORAL REEFS and not to remove all but one
user group, the group which would inflict the most destruction.
Shark Parks, heads and beds. That's the Broward MPA mantra.
Stephen Picardi
http://sharkfeeding.net
A fed shark is a dead shark.
Ban Shark Feeding
"Greg The Divemaster" Holt <gr...@scubaradio.com> wrote in message
news:4XNe5.8258$IZ1....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
> The marine protected area is moving along quite well....I guess you didn't
> see President Clintons executive order.
>
>
>
> Scott J. McFadden <sjm...@aol.comex> wrote in message
> news:20000723184329...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
> > "Greg The Divemaster\" Holt" wrote:
> >
Lee Bell
Stephen Picardi <picardi@NO SPAM sharkfeeding.net> wrote in message
news:PZrf5.1187$I4....@typhoon.pompano.mediaone.net...
Lee Bell
meeting, are you going to share yours?
Just out of curiosity, were you by any change in the front row, near the pro
feeding table, with the Scuba Radio T shirt?
Lee
El Stroko Guapo
Awesome! Is anyone working to develop this in humans?
Went to the "Broward County Predator Feeding Worksop" yesterday. It was
held in the Fishing Hall of Fame, adorned with dead fish and pictures of
dying fish. All the pro-feeders were on the west side of the room, the
anti-s on the east side. I sat as close to the middle as possible 'cause
El Stroko Guapo doesn't like to take strong positions on anything.
There was an hour and a half, maybe more, of one-on-one opinions
recorded by folks from the Division of Marine Fisheries, Fish and
Wildlife Conservation Commission, while little knots of pros told other
pros why they are pro and little knots of antis told other antis why
they are anti.
Then the panels. Five pros on the west, six antis on the east, each
panel to get a half hour to state their case. Coin flip. Pros go first.
Pro case was presented by dive business interests, remarkably well
articulated, focused narrowly on safety to participants, minimal impact
on the marine life, and the "ecotourism" aspects.
Anti case was presented by mixed bag of greenies, started out
embarrassingly awful (the guy from sharkfeeding.com), but improved
considerably as it went on.
Then the commissioners questioned the panels. (biggest applause came
when one of the commiss's said he'd be certified in August and wants to
dive with each side of the issue). There is another meeting (September
7?) up north at which a draft of legislation will be floated. The
questions of the Commiss were, IMNSHO, extremely revealing, and I'll
betchya this is what is floated in September:
Shark feeding is allowed only:
(1)in specific, designated spots, which are marked/published as feeding
areas
(2)by specific authorized, trained feeders
(3)using specific, authorized "natural" foods
This makes everyone happy, sort of. The pros get to continue feeding,
the antis get to restrict the activity, and the state gets to extend
their regulatory tentacles.
El Stroko Guapo, TS
So it goes. - Vonnegut