PDIC
Glen Harman
I would like to become a diver and thought I would get certified this
summer. Being that I am temporarily living in Scranton, PA I thought I
would be s**t out of luck. However, the other day I met Frank and Doris
Murphy of PDIC. Well, how about that... an agency is centered here!
After speaking with them for some time I feel they are easy to get along
with, knowledgeable, and inclined towards intimate, personalized training.
The only thing is that any time I heard of someone taking a course it was
a PADI or NAUI (sp?) course. So this being the newsgroup it is, could
someone comment on the reputation of PDIC and the issues, if any,
regarding a PDIC certification versus a PADI or NAUI one? Would a PDIC
certification be as universally accepted as a PADI/NAUI? Would other
agencies give me credit for a PDIC cert should I like the sport and want
to take advanced courses?
Thanks for you help!
The newbie...Glen Harman
Phil Pfeiffer
:
: I would like to become a diver and thought I would get certified this
I've been dealing with Frank and Mel Murphy for the past two years, off and
on, ever since my wife and I bought gear for a trip to the Caribbean. PDIC
*is* an established certification agency--one of the oldest. PDIC is one of
the six (?) major agencies that participates in the ANSI standards committees
on diver training. PDIC certifications are also recognized by CMAS, the
primary European certification agency. The Murphys, by the way, bought PDIC
in the late sixties or early seventies, and built it into what it is today.
The Scranton shop has the feel of a family business.
The Murphys appear to me to be good people who adhere to their standards--and
teach beyond the minimum requirements. I have heard Frank, for example,
tell a bunch of interesting stories about people whom he did *not* certify.
(My wife and I, by the way, are thinking about taking a PDIC course later
this spring. We have no other connection with the organization; we're
currently YMCA and PADI certified.)
This doesn't address any of your principal questions directly, but I would see
no reason that one agency that adheres to the ANSI certification standards
wouldn't accept the credentials of another, if a candidate for training also
passed a few appropriate watermanship tests [something that PDIC routinely
requests.]
Hope this helps.
--
Phil Pfeiffer, Computer Sci. Dept. | Kindness in thought leads to wisdom.
East Stroudsburg University, | Kindness in speech leads to eloquence.
East Stroudsburg, Pa. 18301-2999 | Kindness in action leads to love.
ph...@esu.edu (717) 424-3820 | -- Lao-Tsu
del...@delong.usafa.af.mil
so does PADI. I know this is a fact, because I am certified in SSI, PADI and NAUI.
So I wouldn't concern myself with thinking I am trapped in one organization. If you
want to learn to dive and its PDIC, I would do it.
Hugh C. De Long
NAUI 14636
del...@gauss.usafa.af.mil
Richard Wackerbarth
writes:
>NAUI instructors cross over people from other organizations all the
time, and
>so does PADI. I know this is a fact, because I am certified in SSI,
PADI and NAUI.
>So I wouldn't concern myself with thinking I am trapped in one
organization. If you
>want to learn to dive and its PDIC, I would do it.
Although "trapped in one organization" is not a concern, I would give
adequate consideration as to the instrustion that you receive.
Just as in school, it is easy to transfer after the beginning levels, it
is more difficult to change "in the middle." This is because there is a
lesser difference in the course content for the introductory course.
Similarly, crossovers are fairly easy because, by the time you reach
instructor, the programs have again converged.
The largest problem I see in transfering is between DM and Instructor.
Most organizations want you to throughly understand their teaching
practices whhich you learn, to a large part, in the DM level.
Therefore, I would say that to start, pick the most compatible instructor
that you can find and don't worry about the organization (assuming that
it is a mainstream one.)
If you don't match, you can always change. But if you have found a good
match, stick with that organization until you reach your desired level of
certification.
James Warren
:
: I would like to become a diver and thought I would get certified this
I have been thru courses from several agencies. My own certification is
with NASDS, but I have gone thru other groups as an observer when my
wife, kids, sister, and friends have been certified. I also helped a
friend who was starting a PDIC training center (many years ago).
Having attended NASDS, PADI, NAUI, BYU (my first "basic" certification
over 25 yrs ago), and PDIC classes, it is my opinion that PDIC was the
best. I also think that dive training (Open Water) is, on average, not
as good as it was many years ago. The training does not go into as much
detail as it used to and the "Open Water" diver turned out today does not
seem to have the level of training that a "Basic" diver got 15-25 years
ago. On the other hand, the more advanced training is better.
I think I've been thru more openwater classes than anyone I know (who is
not an instructor). It's amazing what I'll do for free diving 8^).
I doubt that you'll have any problem crossing to another organization,
but as long as there is a PDIC training center near by, I'm not sure why
you would want to.
--JDW
Joseph Crunk
# This doesn't address any of your principal questions directly, but I would see
# no reason that one agency that adheres to the ANSI certification standards
# wouldn't accept the credentials of another, if a candidate for training also
# passed a few appropriate watermanship tests [something that PDIC routinely
# requests.]
EXACTLY!!! Anyone that teaches the ANSI standards (RSTC - Recreational
Scuba Training Council) should be able to issue a certification, regardless
of any agency affiliation. There is absolutely no reason why you can not
teach scuba to you neighbor. You should be able to certify them as well.
This certification, the Phil Scuba Certification, would/should be
recognized by all other *like* agencies and dive stores/venders.
FYI - the RSTC has only established guidelines for Open Water scuba
training. They are currently working on establishing Scuba Instructor
guidelines. There are no two agencies that train their instructors the
same or even have similar requirements.
FWIW, NAUI is not a member of the RSTC (NAUI feels they need their
autonomy pending every other agency allowing NAUI to standardize all
aspects of scuba.) For this reason, I (personally) don't consider NAUI any
more or less a valid certification than the Phil Scuba Certification, or
the Joe Scuba Certification, etc. As if NAUI's arrogance wasn't enough,
that organization is actively involved in RSTC's affairs, as they (NAUI)
feel it's in their own best interest.
And you thought I could only bash PADI. :) :)
-Joseph Crunk
jos...@smos.com
Nick Simicich
Joseph Crunk <jos...@smos.com> wrote:
>
>EXACTLY!!! Anyone that teaches the ANSI standards (RSTC - Recreational
>Scuba Training Council) should be able to issue a certification, regardless
>of any agency affiliation. There is absolutely no reason why you can not
>teach scuba to you neighbor. You should be able to certify them as well.
>This certification, the Phil Scuba Certification, would/should be
>recognized by all other *like* agencies and dive stores/venders.
Everyone else who is named Phil? Are you asserting that NAUI shops
should not recognize PADI certs?
>FYI - the RSTC has only established guidelines for Open Water scuba
>training. They are currently working on establishing Scuba Instructor
>guidelines. There are no two agencies that train their instructors the
>same or even have similar requirements.
I recall some guidelines for dive leader training a while back.
>FWIW, NAUI is not a member of the RSTC (NAUI feels they need their
>autonomy pending every other agency allowing NAUI to standardize all
>aspects of scuba.) For this reason, I (personally) don't consider NAUI any
>more or less a valid certification than the Phil Scuba Certification, or
>the Joe Scuba Certification, etc. As if NAUI's arrogance wasn't enough,
>that organization is actively involved in RSTC's affairs, as they (NAUI)
>feel it's in their own best interest.
As I recall, NAUI and YMCA both dropped out of RSTC and formed CUE. I
think that the issue (rumors, rumors) was that membership implied
approval of something that could not reach consensus.
--
Nick Simicich - njs%scifi...@uunet.uu.net - n...@watson.ibm.com
Pete Plocher
have had difficulty getting PDIC certifications recognized. The Murphy's are
super people, but you do have to recognize that other agencies may require
you to meet their standards if you choose to pursue diving
education.
Pete Plocher
Pete Plocher
> Glen Harman (gha...@delphi.com) wrote:
> :
> : I would like to become a diver and thought I would get certified this
YMCA program. I suggest you check with CMAS if anyone tells you differently.
That does not mean that PDIC does not certify good students or that their
training is not equivalent to CMAS. CMAS has specific requirements
concerning training levels, etc., and only the National YMCA Scuba Program
meets those requirements.
Pete Plocher
Pete Plocher
> In article <1994Apr21.2...@smos.com>,
> Joseph Crunk <jos...@smos.com> wrote:
> >
>
> >Scuba Training Council) should be able to issue a certification, regardless
> >of any agency affiliation. There is absolutely no reason why you can not
> >teach scuba to you neighbor. You should be able to certify them as well.
> >This certification, the Phil Scuba Certification, would/should be
> >recognized by all other *like* agencies and dive stores/venders.
>
> should not recognize PADI certs?
>
> >training. They are currently working on establishing Scuba Instructor
> >guidelines. There are no two agencies that train their instructors the
> >same or even have similar requirements.
>
>
> >autonomy pending every other agency allowing NAUI to standardize all
> >aspects of scuba.) For this reason, I (personally) don't consider NAUI any
> >more or less a valid certification than the Phil Scuba Certification, or
> >the Joe Scuba Certification, etc. As if NAUI's arrogance wasn't enough,
> >that organization is actively involved in RSTC's affairs, as they (NAUI)
> >feel it's in their own best interest.
>
> think that the issue (rumors, rumors) was that membership implied
> approval of something that could not reach consensus.
>
>
> --
> Nick Simicich - njs%scifi...@uunet.uu.net - n...@watson.ibm.com
>
to do with autonomy, etc. One issue was the open ended cost of belonging
to RSTC - not a yearly cost, but the RSTCs yearly operating expenses divided
by the RSTC membership. LA County, NAUI and the YMCA formed CUE - Council
of Underwater Educators. The other issue dealt with the minimum standards
for entry level certification and certain open water requirments. The other
issue was that the three agencies felt that since the ANSI standard on entry
level scuba certification (Z86-3) was way overdue for an update, the agencies
should concentrate on that standard. Obviously, the others did not agree.
NAUI and the YMCA are members of the American National Standards Committee
on entry level scuba certification standards.
There are other reasons for these three agencies not being members of
RSTC, but the above are the major ones.
Pete Plocher
William Harriman
I have never heard of it. I have PADI and SSI, and my wife has YMCA, PASI, SSI
and NAUI. If with your PDCI card in hand you can't rent a tank or make a dive
in the
Read Sea, Carribean or whereever what good is it too you?
Phil Pfeiffer
: The question you need to ask reference PDIC is how well accepted it is.
: I have never heard of it. I have PADI and SSI, and my wife has YMCA, PASI,
: SSI and NAUI. If with your PDCI card in hand you can't rent a tank or
: make a dive in the Read Sea, Carribean or whereever what good is it too you?
Just because you haven't heard of PDIC, William, doesn't mean that others
don't know about it. PDIC, though small, has affiliates in various places
around the world, including Europe and Brazil. This agency, which certified
20,000 divers last year and has 8,000 instructors worldwide, does advertise
in a variety of publications, including (ack!) _Skin Diver_.
Sorry if that last comment sounds defensive: it's just that you sounded
(to me) like you thought you knew a good bit about what agencies are and
aren't known, and I thought your remarks not quite fair. I'm developing
a real like for how these people operate, and your comment, though well
intended, something of a put down. I was up at the Scranton (home) store
this past weekend to make arrangements to take PDIC's dive supervisor course.
The instructors at the Scranton facility--yes, the Murphys--told my wife and
me that we should not expect a one-week class to turn either of us into
qualified dive supervisors. They recommended, rather, that we set up time
to go over PDIC's procedures (which we did), and then make time, over the
course of the summer, to help out with their classes. This included
participation in their post-dive analyses, which, Frank said, the instructors
*always* do. The certification would come eventually--and ditto for the $250
course fee, which they would get around to asking for in due season, *if* they
thought we'd work out.
P.S.: In response to a comment by Pete Plocher--yes, you're right, PDIC does
not issue a double-sided card, like the YMCA. Murphy's comment about being
able to grant students CMAS certification reflected Murphy's standing as a
CMAS instructor, and had nothing to do with PDIC's standing with CMAS.
Dr. Terry Cobb
never had any real trouble diving in the Carribean. The most interesting thing
is convincing the dive operator that it's OK that you don't have a serial
number. PDIC is in fact the oldest of dive certifiers I think. Originally, they
didn't certify divers directly but rather YMCA instructors.
later.
Terry (co...@umbc.edu)