How about the Oceanic Datamax?
Jamie G Frizzell
have any experiences, good or bad, with these computers. I am considering
purchasing one, and was wondering what people thought of them.
Thanx
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Jamie Frizzell % "I see the light at the end of the tunnel, %
% EE 4, Iowa State University % but with my luck it's probably a train !!" %
% e-mail: friz...@iastate.edu % - Anonymous %
Charlie Gibbs
friz...@iastate.edu (Jamie G Frizzell) writes:
>How about the Oceanic Datamax dive computers (Sport or Pro)? Does anyone
>have any experiences, good or bad, with these computers. I am considering
>purchasing one, and was wondering what people thought of them.
My wife and I each got Sports recently and are happy with
them. Some friends who already have them recommended them to us;
I borrowed one and went for a dive with them, and got taken on a
profile which, although conservative, was nothing we could have
done on the tables (briefly down to 85 feet, then up into shallower
water for a total bottom time of 58 minutes). I was hooked.
What we like most about the Sport is its simplicity. For seven
seconds out of every ten the display shows your current depth and
remaining time (the depth will flash if you're ascending too fast).
The digits are big and fat, and easy to read under just about any
conditions. The remaining three seconds of the ten the display
shows your current bottom time; it took a while to get used to the
idea that that figure isn't really that important any more, except
for logging purposes. What really counts is the bar graph around
the outside of the dial, which indicates your nitrogen loading.
Keep that in the green and everything's cool.
Not having everything displayed at once is a bit of a
disadvantage, but this is offset by the increased readability
of what is shown. The only other disadvantage of this unit is
that you have to remember to activate it before you enter the
water. You only have to do this before the first dive of the
day, though, because the computer doesn't shut down until it
figures you've offgassed completely (based on a 12-compartment
model with half-times up to 480 minutes).
Once out of the water, you can recall your bottom time and
maximum depth by pressing the single button. Even the flashing
ascent-rate indication comes up so the divemaster can give you the
evil eye. :-) The rest of the time, the display will alternate
between showing your surface interval and scrolling through various
depths, giving your available time at each one, adjusted for your
current residual nitrogen; these figures will change as your
surface interval increases.
Another nice thing about the Sport is that it's compact.
If you have an Oceanic console (or similar) it's just a matter of
popping out your old depth gauge and inserting the computer in its
place.
Several people have warned us against getting an air-integrated
computer (such as the Datamax Pro). Apparently the high-pressure
transducer that reads your tank pressure is the weak point in such
units. We don't do decompression dives (at least at this point),
and our air consumption is low enough that it's not usually a
concern, so we decided it wasn't worth the trouble and expense.
I'd recommend the Datamax Sport. It tells you what you need
to know with a minimum of fuss, and it's very easy to use. Our
local Oceanic support is excellent, which was another point in its
favour for us.
We love what computers have done for us. We like long dives;
on tables we'd seldom go deeper than 70 or 80 feet, and usually
limit ourselves to 60 so we could get lots of bottom time. Now we
can take a quick look at something at 100 feet, then come back up
and play at shallower depths and still be down for nearly an hour.
Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca
"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!" -- Night Court
Dave Waller
|> How about the Oceanic Datamax dive computers (Sport or Pro)? Does anyone
|> have any experiences, good or bad, with these computers. I am considering
|> purchasing one, and was wondering what people thought of them.
I don't like them at all. My biggest beef is with the toggling display,
which can make it difficult to understand what information the computer is
trying to tell you without scrutinizing it for more than a few seconds.
I also am not enamored with the DSAT decompression model that is used in
this machine, but if you want the poop on that discussion, it's best to
consult that rec.scuba archives that Nick maintains.
--
Dave Waller
YMCA Instructor
Random Deviate
Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)writes:
>In article <frizzell....@vincent1.iastate.edu>
>friz...@iastate.edu (Jamie G Frizzell) writes:
>
>>How about the Oceanic Datamax dive computers (Sport or Pro)? Does anyone
>>have any experiences, good or bad, with these computers. I am considering
>>purchasing one, and was wondering what people thought of them.
>the outside of the dial, which indicates your nitrogen loading.
>Keep that in the green and everything's cool.
>
> Not having everything displayed at once is a bit of a
>disadvantage, but this is offset by the increased readability
>of what is shown.
I don't consider this a disadvantage. I would rather not be inundated with
information unless I need it. I consider the "dive time remaining" superfluous
until the bar graph gets near a limit. It only takes an instant to check the
graph, so I can spend more time doing what I'm down there for. The Source
displays "bar-graph,dtr,depth" for twelve seconds followed by "bottom time" for
three seconds. About the only time I use the bottom time display is during
safety-stops. I don't really miss it.
> The only other disadvantage of this unit is
>that you have to remember to activate it before you enter the
>water.
It would be nice if the thing activated automatically.
> Once out of the water, you can recall your bottom time and
>maximum depth by pressing the single button.
I was once concerned that the surface interval is not displayed. I now see
that it is essentially useless information when diving with a computer.
> Several people have warned us against getting an air-integrated
>computer (such as the Datamax Pro). Apparently the high-pressure
>transducer that reads your tank pressure is the weak point in such
>units. We don't do decompression dives
I agree. Air consumption calculations are pretty useless if you don't need
deco stops. I not sure just what good they are in any case. If you are low on
air, then you are going to surface (or die). Also, I can't see why someone
would trust their depth AND air readings to ONE instrument. (I also carry an
independent depth gauge; I don't need an independent timer if I'm "in the
green.")
It could be better, but I like it.
>
>Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca
>"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!" -- Night Court
--
Randomly, Kelly Cunningham
<dev...@lipschitz.sfasu.edu> NeXTMail (encouraged)
<f_cnn...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> VMS Mail (tolerated)
"Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to listen to only new music."
-- Scott Simon
Charlie Gibbs
rsoft!agate!slc3.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.
ed writes:
>I was once concerned that the surface interval is not displayed. I now see
>that it is essentially useless information when diving with a computer.
Ours display surface interval.
f_cnn...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
In the dive log?
Randomly, Kelly Cunningham
<dev...@lipschitz.sfasu.edu> NeXTMail (encouraged)
<f_cnn...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> VMS Mail (tolerated)
Life is too short to drink cheap beer. -- Maggie Mae's (Austin, TX)
>> Once out of the water, you can recall your bottom time and
>>maximum depth by pressing the single button.
>
Kevin Grover
)
)
) > The only other disadvantage of this unit is
) >that you have to remember to activate it before you enter the
) >water.
)
) It would be nice if the thing activated automatically.
I wonder about this. Turning the machine on causes it to adjust to
current altitude. Now, if the machine did not need to be turned on,
wouldn't it have to be constantly monitoring the current altitude to
be able to adjust for it? If so, it seems to me that the batteries
would not last nearly as long (as a model that must be turned on).
Anyway, how hard is it to remember to turn the computer on? If it's
so hard, why not make tank values that do not need to be turned on?
(Aside from the safety reason of course), etc. I concede that if
you're used to a computer that does not need to be turned on, it could
be difficult to remember, at first, but it quickly becomes part of the
routine. (And I think it makes the batteries last longer, so I'm
happy).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin O. Grover | UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
gro...@isri.unlv.edu | ISRI - Information Science Research Institute
CServe: [73627,1677] | 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Las Vegas NV 89154-1017
brad may
seen discussed here is how closely your computer's models
approximate those of your dive buddies' computers.
I own a Datamax Sport and like it a lot for my typical
California diving. I recently went on a liveaboard trip to
Saba (Netherlands Antilles) with a group of divers who pre-
dominantly use Orca Delphis or SkinnyDippers.
I admit to being a plebe about the model my Datamax uses, and
unfortunately the user's manual is very deficient in technical
detail. The "Modified Haldanean" model has been futzed with
such that no outgassing is allowed through the two shortest
compartments, which I actually liked because it makes the
model very conservative for "bad" profiles like repeated
bounce dives, reversed profiles (shallow first, going deeper)
or reversed series of dive profiles. But I wasn't prepared
for how conservative it could be on single deep dives com-
parted to, say, a Delphi.
Example: First dive of day, no residual N2 from previous day.
We are doing a live boat dive a Shark Shoals (about 110'min.
depth by memory). The boat split into two dive groups, my
buddy and I are first buddy team in first group in the water.
After ~4 minutes on the bottom (120-130') my Datamax
goes into decompression mode; check with buddy--Delphi shows
several minutes bottom time remaining. I descend to videotape
a school of amberjack; after <2 mins. of filming I look at my
Datamax. Damn! Datamax stops displaying deco information
below 130', but shows 141' depth. I work my way back up to
my buddy; we check computers. His shows ~3 min no-deco time
remaining, mine now requires a deco stop at 20'!! We futz
for ~1 minute and start ascent (we're the 1st buddy team
to start up). His Delphi shows ~2 min no-deco time, mine now
requires a deco stop at 30'!!
I ascend very quickly at first to minimize further N2 absorp-
tion (Datamax uses progressively slower max ascent rate, like
most computers--60, 45, 30 fpm), 30' deco stop is cleared as
I pass ~35', but I have a *17 min. stop at 20'*! Hanging on a
line very close to 20' to clear N2 as fast as possible, I
clear 20' stop and ascend to wait out *23 min deco stop* at
10'.
By this point, by buddy has been on the surface for a long
time, watching me hang, the rest of the first group is back
on the boat, all the second group has completed its dive and
is waiting on the surface for me to surface, so the boat can
come back and make a pick up. The captain is already about
15 min. behind schedule to leave for the next site, and I'm
passing hand signals to the divemaster for how long I have
left to hang.
To summarize, whereas I stayed higher than my buddy the
whole dive except for the amberjack excursion (and to wait
out deco stops), he was never very close to his no-deco
limit and I had *40 minutes* of deco time. Apperently no
one else went into decompression, in spite of several people
being well below my max. depth. I had the distinct feeling
of being held captive underwater by my computer!
My advice (in addition to very good advice already posted):
study the models used by computers you are considering, think
about how they will work under the kinds of diving you anti-
cipate, and how they compare to your prospective buddies'
computer models.
bm...@radius.com (Brad May)
Mark Cervi
>A consideration in choosing a dive computer which I haven't
>seen discussed here is how closely your computer's models
>approximate those of your dive buddies' computers.
>I own a Datamax Sport and like it a lot for my typical
>California diving. I recently went on a liveaboard trip to
>Saba (Netherlands Antilles) with a group of divers who pre-
>dominantly use Orca Delphis or SkinnyDippers.
>To summarize, whereas I stayed higher than my buddy the
>whole dive except for the amberjack excursion (and to wait
>out deco stops), he was never very close to his no-deco
>limit and I had *40 minutes* of deco time. Apperently no
>one else went into decompression, in spite of several people
>being well below my max. depth.
>
>bm...@radius.com (Brad May)
The dive models should not be that much different.
I would advise you to get the Data Max Sport calibrated, and to
use the dive tables as a secondary (backup) system in any case.
I used a DataMax Sport for about two years, and when the batteries started
getting low, it started giving depth readings that were wrong. Of course
this screws up the decompression calculations, and the whole thing is
no good until the batteries are replaced. Oceanic replaced them for
free.
Mark Cervi
--
_ _ Mark Cervi, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC Code 2752, Annapolis, MD 21402
_ _ _ ce...@oasys.dt.navy.mil, (w) 410-267-2261, (h) 410-647-0990
Charlie Gibbs
f_cnn...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <14...@mindlink.bc.ca>, Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie
Gibbs)
>writes:
>> In article <1992Aug25....@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
>>
>rsoft!agate!slc3.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.
>> ed writes:
>>
>>>I was once concerned that the surface interval is not displayed. I now see
>>>that it is essentially useless information when diving with a computer.
>>
>> Ours display surface interval.
>
> In the dive log?
Nope, you got me there. But at least it's available between
dives. I use it and the stored bottom time to work backwards from
the current time of day to log my time down and up.
Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca
"Woof! Woof! Woof! Woof! Hello, I'm Rags." -- Sleeper
Dillon Pyron
In article <1992Aug26.1...@unlv.edu>, gro...@mighty-joe.isri.unlv.edu (Kevin Grover) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25....@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)) writes:
>)
>)
>) > The only other disadvantage of this unit is
>) >that you have to remember to activate it before you enter the
>) >water.
>)
>) It would be nice if the thing activated automatically.
>
>I wonder about this. Turning the machine on causes it to adjust to
>current altitude. Now, if the machine did not need to be turned on,
>wouldn't it have to be constantly monitoring the current altitude to
>be able to adjust for it? If so, it seems to me that the batteries
>would not last nearly as long (as a model that must be turned on).
If you increase altitude, it will turn on.
Which makes for an entertaining trip.
We have about 22 people from our shop making a trip to CoCo View in a few
weeks. I think 16 of them have Pro's. They've started a pool for first and
last beep. It seems that on an airplane (commercial) you have the potential
for going up three zones (according to "their" computations). Makes for lots
of beeps and sometimes a freaked out cabin crew :-)
>
> Kevin O. Grover | UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
> gro...@isri.unlv.edu | ISRI - Information Science Research Institute
> CServe: [73627,1677] | 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Las Vegas NV 89154-1017
>
--
Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here) |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |"Do something different, DISAPPEAR"
py...@skndiv.dseg.ti.com | "DISAPPEAR"
_A Day On Earth_
Brave Combo
David (Duis) Story
>In article <1992Aug25....@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)) writes:
>) It would be nice if the thing activated automatically.
>
>I wonder about this. Turning the machine on causes it to adjust to
>current altitude.
Not true on most computers. Only the Orca Delphi/EIT Phoenix does
this. Most computers are adjusted for a fixed altitude and don't
change their M-values automatically at altitude. This includes the
Oceanic Datamax, Sherwood Source, MicroBrain, Suunto SME-ML, Suunto
Solution, Orca SkinnyDipper, Marathon, and Edge, and others.
>Now, if the machine did not need to be turned on,
>wouldn't it have to be constantly monitoring the current altitude to
>be able to adjust for it? If so, it seems to me that the batteries
>would not last nearly as long (as a model that must be turned on).
The Uwatek Swiss Pro (Aladin Pro, Monitor II) does just this.
>Anyway, how hard is it to remember to turn the computer on?
Not too hard, but the consequences of forgetting can be pretty bad.
And with the Datamax Sport, I found that the computer had turned
itself off almost every morning after an overnight surface interval,
so it had to be turned on most days on a multi-day liveaboard.
Cheers,
David Story NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
st...@bent.wpd.sgi.com Better diving through tolerance.
M.S. Tremblay
>>To summarize, whereas I stayed higher than my buddy the
>>whole dive except for the amberjack excursion (and to wait
>>out deco stops), he was never very close to his no-deco
>>limit and I had *40 minutes* of deco time. Apperently no
>>one else went into decompression, in spite of several people
>>being well below my max. depth.
>>
>>bm...@radius.com (Brad May)
>
>In article <24...@oasys.dt.navy.mil> ce...@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Cervi) writes:
>The dive models should not be that much different.
I have dove with both the Delphi Pro, and the Sherwood Source (same as
Datamax Sport), and had them read nearly identical on time remaining before
deco.
I was on a dive on the Duane off Key Largo, had both computers right from
the start, and did a 123' dive. Both the Delphi and the Source were within
in 1 minute of their time remainings...
I too would suggest you get your Datamax calibrated.
--
-Mark Tremblay
software specialist Internet: mst...@ultb.isc.rit.edu
Rochester Institute of Technology Phone: 716.475.2986
David (Duis) Story
>>To summarize, whereas I stayed higher than my buddy the
>>whole dive except for the amberjack excursion (and to wait
>>out deco stops), he was never very close to his no-deco
>>limit and I had *40 minutes* of deco time. Apperently no
>>one else went into decompression, in spite of several people
>>being well below my max. depth.
>>
>>bm...@radius.com (Brad May)
>
>The dive models should not be that much different.
But they are, and running the two through some simulations does a lot
to show what's going on. Of course, the special "tweaks" that Lewis
added to penalize deep diving make the model almost a non-issue in
this particular "deep" diving circumstance. The bottom line is that
the "models" are very different.
>I would advise you to get the Data Max Sport calibrated, and to
>use the dive tables as a secondary (backup) system in any case.
Could you please explain to me how to use the RDP as a backup when it
is possible to use the computer to do both single and repetitive dives
which do not fit on the RDP, and the RDP does not allow decompression
diving?
>I used a DataMax Sport for about two years, and when the batteries started
>getting low, it started giving depth readings that were wrong. Of course
>this screws up the decompression calculations, and the whole thing is
>no good until the batteries are replaced. Oceanic replaced them for
>free.
Wow, this is really scary! How did you figure out that the depth
readings were wrong? Were they drastically wrong, or just
progressively more off? Shallow or deep, or random? Anyone else have
these problems?
Cheers,
David Story NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
st...@bent.wpd.sgi.com Better diving through computers.
William Mayne
>[Someone wrote]
>>I used a DataMax Sport for about two years, and when the batteries started
>>getting low, it started giving depth readings that were wrong. Of course
>>this screws up the decompression calculations, and the whole thing is
>>no good until the batteries are replaced. Oceanic replaced them for
>>free.
>
>Wow, this is really scary! How did you figure out that the depth
>readings were wrong? Were they drastically wrong, or just
>progressively more off? Shallow or deep, or random? Anyone else have
>these problems?
I've had the problem with an Oceanic gauge - the one with an automatic
bottom timer which is presently not working since I'd have to send it
back to the factory and pay about $45 just to change the batteries. :-(
I believe this is called the DataMax II.
It reads about 5 feet too deep at least from 30 to 10 feet, which would
be very dangerous for decompression stops. I discovered this when I
fortunately started using a computer right after I got into decompression
diving. Luckily I didn't get bent on the few dives I did pulling 20 foot
stops at 15 and 10 foot stops at 5. At greater depths it seems to be more
accurate, or at least to match other gauges and my computer. On my last
dive it actually read less than my buddy's computer (130 versus 143 feet),
though some of the difference might be accounted for by salt versus fresh
water calibrations and he may have been a few feet deeper at max depth.
Our decompression controlled by his computer was more conservative than
my tables would have called for, even though the profile wasn't strictly
square, by the way.
I'm unfortunately without the services of my computer temporarily so this
has become an important issue for me. No shops in Tallahassee are able to
test depth gauges for accuracy or to calibrate them. At least it seems to
be consistent. This is scary to me too. Any suggestions? The questionable
Oceanic gauge is about 3 years old and hence out of warrantee.
Bill Mayne
spin...@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu
>
>I've had the problem with an Oceanic gauge - the one with an automatic
>bottom timer which is presently not working since I'd have to send it
>back to the factory and pay about $45 just to change the batteries. :-(
>I believe this is called the DataMax II.
>
>has become an important issue for me. No shops in Tallahassee are able to
>test depth gauges for accuracy or to calibrate them. At least it seems to
>be consistent. This is scary to me too. Any suggestions? The questionable
>Oceanic gauge is about 3 years old and hence out of warrantee.
I dive with the DataMax II, and I'm sure that Oceanic gives lifetime warranties
on their equipment. This is particularly important to me since I've had to
trade in *three* previous editions of the DataMax before I got one that worked
as advertised.
One question on the depth inaccuracy: is it the main depth needle or the
max-depth indicator that is in error? I've had problems with the max-depth
indicator creeping up during a dive (followed by a quick trade-in). BTW, I've
had at least two of my DataMax gauges calibrated by the school, and both have
been right on the nose. Sounds like you may have a dud there, and you are
probably entitled to a free replacement.
I'm rather disturbed by the $45 charge to replace the batteries, though. Has
anybody else encountered this? Since Oceanic closed their Florida distribution
center, I've been forced to have dive shops ship my Oceanic gauges back to
California for service/replacement, and that takes a month. <BOO!> 8-(
----
Todd Spindler
TSpi...@rsmas.miami.edu RSMAS/MPO University of Miami
Mark Cervi
writes:
[discussion about Oceanic Datamax II deleted...]
>I'm rather disturbed by the $45 charge to replace the batteries, though. Has
>anybody else encountered this? Since Oceanic closed their Florida
distribution >center, I've been forced to have dive shops ship my Oceanic
gauges back to >California for service/replacement, and that takes a
month. <BOO!> 8-(
>Todd Spindler
They replaced the batteries in my Oceanic Sport model for free about
18 months after I bought it. All I had to do was ship it out to them
myself. It came back in about three weeks.
Kevin Dalley
> They replaced the batteries in my Oceanic Sport model for free about
> 18 months after I bought it. All I had to do was ship it out to them
> myself. It came back in about three weeks.
After about 18 months, my Datamax Sport started producing strange
results. I took it on 3 dives within one day. The first dive was to
about 30 feet, but recorded a maximum depth of 195 feet. The second
and third dive had a real maximum depth of between forty and sixty
feet, but the Datamax recorded a maximum depth of 0 feet. The low
battery indicator never lit up.
I returned it to Datamax. Since I had not replaced the battery after
one year, they charged me $50 for replacing the battery, which
includes overhauling some unit and sending me that unit. Testing the
unit is also included. Though Oceanic said that it was still within
the warranty period, they insisted on charging me. The customer
service person claimed that units often malfunction when the battery
is low, even though the low battery indicator does not light. This
contradicts their booklet which claims a week's worth of diving after
the low battery indicator comes on.
This disturbs me. Oceanic seems to be saying that the Datamax Sport
is very likely to fail at any time, without warning. In fact it is
expected to fail without warning. That could hurt a dive trip.
Other than that, I've been happy with the Datamax Sport.
--
Kevin Dalley
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.
ke...@tamri.com
David Story
>
>After about 18 months, my Datamax Sport started producing strange
>results. I took it on 3 dives within one day. The first dive was to
>about 30 feet, but recorded a maximum depth of 195 feet. The second
>and third dive had a real maximum depth of between forty and sixty
>feet, but the Datamax recorded a maximum depth of 0 feet. The low
>battery indicator never lit up.
This anecdote scares the SHIT out of me!! I'm glad you were diving
conservative profiles, and didn't discover this after the fourth day
of a week's liveaboard trip!
> The customer
>service person claimed that units often malfunction when the battery
>is low, even though the low battery indicator does not light.
This is even WORSE! Better dive with three of these if you want to be
safe.
>This disturbs me. Oceanic seems to be saying that the Datamax Sport
>is very likely to fail at any time, without warning. In fact it is
>expected to fail without warning. That could hurt a dive trip.
Disturbs? This is truly frightening! Has anyone else had this
happen? Perhaps these units should be recalled.
David Story NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
st...@bent.wpd.sgi.com Oxygen is a drug in California.
Kevin Dalley
> In article <KEVIN.92S...@polkacide.tamri.com> ke...@tamri.com writes:
>>
>>After about 18 months, my Datamax Sport started producing strange
>>results. I took it on 3 dives within one day. The first dive was to
>>about 30 feet, but recorded a maximum depth of 195 feet. The second
>>and third dive had a real maximum depth of between forty and sixty
>>feet, but the Datamax recorded a maximum depth of 0 feet. The low
>>battery indicator never lit up.
> This anecdote scares the SHIT out of me!! I'm glad you were diving
> conservative profiles, and didn't discover this after the fourth day
> of a week's liveaboard trip!
Fortunately 2 out of the 3 dives were for under 3 minutes (recovering
a weight belt and dislodging the anchor). My computer's failure mode
wouldn't have killed me. It may have meant discontinuing diving for
the day and switching to a different computer or my depth gauge for
the rest of the trip. Losing the maximum depth alone wouldn't kill
me. However, I wonder whether the DataMax could lose track of
nitrogen instead of just maximum depth. I might never discover the
problem, unless my dive plan suggested number substantially different
from that of my dive buddy (assuming I used the same dive buddy for
each dive). Even if I were bent, it would difficult to prove that the
computer were at fault. I could be one of those who gets bent even
within the bounds of the dive computer.
>> The customer
>>service person claimed that units often malfunction when the battery
>>is low, even though the low battery indicator does not light.
> This is even WORSE! Better dive with three of these if you want to be
> safe.
>>This disturbs me. Oceanic seems to be saying that the Datamax Sport
>>is very likely to fail at any time, without warning. In fact it is
>>expected to fail without warning. That could hurt a dive trip.
> Disturbs? This is truly frightening! Has anyone else had this
> happen? Perhaps these units should be recalled.
For what it's worth, I called the Oceanic rep again. She claimed that
Oceanic has changed battery vendors and software since. Originally
Oceanic expected a 3-5% battery failure rate, now they presumably have
a smaller failure rate. But again, there was no indication of battery
failure, only incorrect maximum depth indications. I didn't have the
Datamax serviced on the suggested schedule, but the failure mode was
worse than I would expect.
I plan to report this to _Undercurrents_ and see if they want to look
into the incident.
> David Story NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
> st...@bent.wpd.sgi.com Oxygen is a drug in California.
Douglas Stetner
In article <q3m...@twilight.wpd.sgi.com>, st...@sgi.com (David Story) writes:
|> In article <KEVIN.92S...@polkacide.tamri.com> ke...@tamri.com writes:
|> >
|> >After about 18 months, my Datamax Sport started producing strange
|> >results. I took it on 3 dives within one day. The first dive was to
|> >about 30 feet, but recorded a maximum depth of 195 feet. The second
|> >and third dive had a real maximum depth of between forty and sixty
|> >feet, but the Datamax recorded a maximum depth of 0 feet. The low
|> >battery indicator never lit up.
|>
|> This anecdote scares the SHIT out of me!! I'm glad you were diving
|> conservative profiles, and didn't discover this after the fourth day
|> of a week's liveaboard trip!
|>
That is why the club I am in demands that every diver give a 'table
based' dive profile even if they are using computers.
As well, some people around here recently found out that if you take a
certain computer, (I am not sure if it was the Datamax) to 165ft,
deeper than it is supposed to be used at, that it decides this is too
deep, and SHUTS OFF!! These people panicked and bolted to the surface
getting bent in the process.
I am not sure if this is mentioned in its manual, but it would not
matter anyway as a lot of divers I have met have not read their entire
manual.
It scares me to see people getting certified and immediately getting a
computer and totally forgetting how tables work.
Doug
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Douglas G. Stetner, 4Y22 | Bell-Northern Research | ESN 6+39+3+8396
ste...@bnr.ca | P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C | (613) 763-8396 (work)
My opinions are my own. | Ottawa, ON, CANADA | (613) 828-6321 (home)
William Mayne
>
>As well, some people around here recently found out that if you take a
>certain computer, (I am not sure if it was the Datamax) to 165ft,
>deeper than it is supposed to be used at, that it decides this is too
>deep, and SHUTS OFF!! These people panicked and bolted to the surface
>getting bent in the process.
Natural selection in action. Anyone diving to 165 feet or deeper should
have enough sense not to bolt to the surface from that depth, especially
over such a minor problem. Obviously that is the worst thing to do.
An immediate but controlled ascent, even extra slow and with extra
decompression stops, is called for.
>I am not sure if this is mentioned in its manual, but it would not
>matter anyway as a lot of divers I have met have not read their entire
>manual.
And the manual is not a substitute for good sense.
>It scares me to see people getting certified and immediately getting a
>computer and totally forgetting how tables work.
It scares me to think of people like those involved is this incident
doing deep diving and giving the sport a bad name.
Bill Mayne
Dean Heistad
will be doing a bit of travelling to ideal dive locations the next few months.
First, I'd like some information on diving in the LaJolla area. I'll be there
the end of October for 5 days and would like to get a day or two in the water.
Anybody know of good shops/locations around there?
Second, I'll be in Maui in December with parents (who aren't certified) and
I need info on shops/locations and maybe even a buddy or two who might be
in the area the same time. Please respond to my email address listed below.
Thanks in advance...
dhe...@clemson.edu
Dean Heistad, dhe...@cs.clemson.edu
Cech Claude G
> [commenting on someone else's stuff whose attribution I've lost...]
>
>>It scares me to see people getting certified and immediately getting a
>>computer and totally forgetting how tables work.
>
>It scares me to think of people like those involved is this incident
>doing deep diving and giving the sport a bad name.
>
>Bill Mayne
>
of the dive shows couldn't correctly figure a simple profile on their
preferred table. Makes you wander what the correlation is between
computer use and ability to do a profile...
Cheers -
Claude
Revolutionary slogan for a revolutionary agency (NED): Let them eat fish.
Bruce Dunn
>
> We had a posting much earlier about how many people (DMs included) at one
> of the dive shows couldn't correctly figure a simple profile on their
> preferred table. Makes you wander what the correlation is between
> computer use and ability to do a profile...
This tends to suggest to me that no matter what the problems of
computers are, they may be safer for the average recreational diver than the
use of tables. I get the impression that most computer problems are clearly
identifiable as problems. A wrong answer when working tables however is
probably missed until an accident forces it to be noticed.
--
Bruce Dunn Vancouver, Canada Bruce...@mindlink.bc.ca
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
>After about 18 months, my Datamax Sport started producing strange
>results. I took it on 3 dives within one day. The first dive was to
>about 30 feet, but recorded a maximum depth of 195 feet. The second
>and third dive had a real maximum depth of between forty and sixty
>feet, but the Datamax recorded a maximum depth of 0 feet. The low
>battery indicator never lit up.
On a recent dive trip, I heard a story about an instructor using the
Datamax while training four students on a "deep dive" course. This
was out of El Mar, the largest dive shop in Arizona, and supposedly
happened quite recently.
The dive plan was set for 100 feet (square profile dive). After going
down, one of the students noticed that his gauge showed 130 ft, but the
instructor hushed him up. They completed the dive (my guess is staying at
the maximum time for 100 ft), and did a direct return to the surface.
Result: all four students, and the instructor, got bent.
My buddy and I have different brands of computers, partially for this
reason, and always compare depth readings at least once during a dive.
After hearing this story, we're going to make this a rule.
Joel M Snyder, 1103 E Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719
Phone: 602.882.4094 (voice) .4095 (FAX) .4093 (data)
BITNET: jms@Arizona Internet: j...@arizona.edu SPAN: 47541::telcom::jms
Hiccuping & trembling into the WASTE DUMPS of New Jersey like some
drunken CABBAGE PATCH DOLL, coughing in line at FIORUCCI'S!!
Kevin Dalley
>>>>> sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem) said:
> Nntp-Posting-Host: mrsvax.mis.arizona.edu
> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
> In article <KEVIN.92S...@polkacide.tamri.com> ke...@tamri.com writes:
>>After about 18 months, my Datamax Sport started producing strange
>>results. I took it on 3 dives within one day. The first dive was to
>>about 30 feet, but recorded a maximum depth of 195 feet. The second
>>and third dive had a real maximum depth of between forty and sixty
>>feet, but the Datamax recorded a maximum depth of 0 feet. The low
>>battery indicator never lit up.
> On a recent dive trip, I heard a story about an instructor using the
> Datamax while training four students on a "deep dive" course. This
> was out of El Mar, the largest dive shop in Arizona, and supposedly
> happened quite recently.
> The dive plan was set for 100 feet (square profile dive). After going
> down, one of the students noticed that his gauge showed 130 ft, but the
> instructor hushed him up. They completed the dive (my guess is staying at
> the maximum time for 100 ft), and did a direct return to the surface.
> Result: all four students, and the instructor, got bent.
> My buddy and I have different brands of computers, partially for this
> reason, and always compare depth readings at least once during a dive.
> After hearing this story, we're going to make this a rule.
My Datamax, when it died, did keep accurate (or at least
plausible) track of current depth. It just misremembered 30 feet as
195 feet when I returned to the top. Coming straight to the surface
from 100 feet without a decompression stop seems stupid. I believe
that even the Datamax instruction manual suggests decompression stops
for dives made within the limits. It definitely reduces the chances
of bends.
I'm curious about dive computer failure modes. Do many fail in a mode
that is dangerous? With failure, if I had stopped diving for the day
I would have been safe. I actually switched to tables, which was also
safe. I was unhappy (even a bit distressed) about the failure, but I
wasn't under any additional risk of bends.
Are there many cases of computers incorrectly keep track of nitrogen
levels? This may be difficult to determine unless there are 2
computers attached to a single diver. What are the common failure
modes of a dive computer? Losing the maximum isn't very serious,
especially on the surface. At depth someone could panic and ascend
quickly, skipping a safety stop, but divers should take responsibility
for safe ascents even if there is equipment failure. The problem with
the instructors dive is much more serious. Perhaps this question
belongs in comp.risks.
David (Duis) Story
>
> My computer's failure mode
>wouldn't have killed me. It may have meant discontinuing diving for
>the day and switching to a different computer or my depth gauge for
>the rest of the trip. Losing the maximum depth alone wouldn't kill
>me. However, I wonder whether the DataMax could lose track of
>nitrogen instead of just maximum depth.
I would assume so, since it should be reporting the same number it is
using for its calculations.
And might I point out that "switching to a different computer"
mid-week is a serious offense against the models: it generally isn't
wise to arbitrarily reset your theoretical compartment loadings to
zero when your body is still loaded.
> I might never discover the
>problem, unless my dive plan suggested number substantially different
>from that of my dive buddy (assuming I used the same dive buddy for
>each dive). Even if I were bent, it would difficult to prove that the
>computer were at fault. I could be one of those who gets bent even
>within the bounds of the dive computer.
This is an interesting train of thought. I hadn't thought of that. I
wonder if any of these cases have been tested -- I doubt anyone
performs accuracy tests on the computers of those who have been bent.
>For what it's worth, I called the Oceanic rep again. She claimed that
>Oceanic has changed battery vendors and software since. Originally
>Oceanic expected a 3-5% battery failure rate, now they presumably have
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> But again, there was no indication of battery
>failure, only incorrect maximum depth indications. I didn't have the
>Datamax serviced on the suggested schedule, but the failure mode was
>worse than I would expect.
Yow! This is far, far worse a rate than I would tolerate, given the
manner in which these computers obviously can fail: inaccurate depth
readings and hence inaccurate decompression information.
>I plan to report this to _Undercurrents_ and see if they want to look
>into the incident.
Good plan. This is interesting stuff. Let us know what you find out.
Cheers,
David Story NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
st...@bent.wpd.sgi.com Better diving through computers.
David (Duis) Story
>certain computer, (I am not sure if it was the Datamax) to 165ft,
>deeper than it is supposed to be used at, that it decides this is too
>deep, and SHUTS OFF!! These people panicked and bolted to the surface
>getting bent in the process.
Is this a true story? Could you verify it? Undercurrents would be
very interested, as am I!
>It scares me to see people getting certified and immediately getting a
>computer and totally forgetting how tables work.
How about people getting certified and NOT immediately getting a
computer and STILL totally forgetting how tables work? I recently
posted the abstract of a study in which they concluded that well over
50% of certified divers (including instructors!) cannot perform
routine repetitive dive calculations (such as those used on final
exams for dive certification.)
Cheers,
Dave Story NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
st...@bent.wpd.sgi.com Better diving through drugs.
Fred Fish
|On a recent dive trip, I heard a story about an instructor using the
|Datamax while training four students on a "deep dive" course. This
|was out of El Mar, the largest dive shop in Arizona, and supposedly
|happened quite recently.
|Result: all four students, and the instructor, got bent.
Just for the record, while I was in El Mar today I happened to mention
reading this rumor. It appears to be totally unfounded.
-Fred
--
|\/ o\ Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA
|/\__/ 1-602-491-0048 {asuvax,mcdphx,cygint,amix}!fishpond!fnf
S Dunbar
>In article <29SEP199...@mrsvax.mis.arizona.edu> j...@arizona.edu writes:
>|On a recent dive trip, I heard a story about an instructor using the
>|Datamax while training four students on a "deep dive" course. This
>|was out of El Mar, the largest dive shop in Arizona, and supposedly
>|happened quite recently.
>|...
>|Result: all four students, and the instructor, got bent.
>Just for the record, while I was in El Mar today I happened to mention
>reading this rumor. It appears to be totally unfounded.
>-Fred
could someone tell me if this is true or not, i was thinking of getting my
wife a datamax wrist mount for channukah!!
i did ask my local dive shop about it, and they said that they would check
into it, i wouldnt imagine that el mar would admit this even if it was true
come on , 5 people off the same computer is not smart.
scott
Scott\ /\/\ /|email: dun...@boulder.colorado.edu
/***\ /\/*/**\/*|Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology
/ /\ \/**\/ \ |University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, CO 80309-0347
Stephen Lui
I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount. After my first
dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several scratches on the glass face.
If I was using a wrist mount instead, would these scratches be minimized? I
did secure the console to my BC so it wasn't dangling.
When I take my Datamax Sport in for servicing, can they polish the glass to
remove the scratches (like they do to watch crystals) or do I have to replace
the glass (and how much do they charge for that)?
Besides that, I've been happy with my Datamax Sport for this one dive (I did
test the computer out in a pool beforehand) and I really like the easy to
understand user interface.
Bruce Dunn
>
> I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount. After my
> first
> dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several scratches on the glass face.
> When I take my Datamax Sport in for servicing, can they polish the glass to
> remove the scratches (like they do to watch crystals) or do I have to
> replace
> the glass (and how much do they charge for that)?
I don't know for sure about the new ones, but my 2 year old Datamax
Sport has a plastic face. I suspect that your's is also plastic. I have
been successful in alleviating small scratches by polishing the plastic with
automobile body polish (the type sold as a paste, labelled "polishing
compound"). Make sure you get polish, not "rubbing compound" which is a
coarser abrasive. You end up polishing the surface of the plastic the way
you polish the paint on a car. This will not remove scratches, but makes
them less prominent. In an extreme emergency if the gage surface is mortally
wounded, you might try sanding it smooth with number 400 and then number 600
wet and dry abrasive paper, followed by polishing compound.
While these techniques have worked for me (provided lots of elbow
grease is used), you will have to take responsibility for your own actions if
you tackle the face of your gage.
My recollection of the Datamax Sport is that it does not have a
replaceable front. However the entire gage can be removed like a hockey puck
from its console. Perhaps a jeweler could do the polishing for you.
Charlie Gibbs
(Stephen Lui) writes:
>I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount. After my
first
>dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several scratches on the glass face.
A friend of mine scratched the face of his Datamax, but he
doesn't worry about it because the scratches are only visible out
of the water. The refractive index of water is nearly the same as
that of the face itself, and during a dive the scratches become
invisible.
(I haven't scratched mine yet... :-)
Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca
For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision.
smcke...@cc.curtin.edu.au
dun...@boulder.Colorado.EDU (S Dunbar) writes:
> I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount.
> After my first dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several
> scratches on the glass face.
You can avoid this problem by applying clear adhesive film over the flat
glass faces of consoles and computers. Untextured film is best but textured
film can be read through just as easily underwater. I only have to reapply
every two years or so. The film also hides scratches incurred.
> If I was using a wrist mount instead, would these scratches be minimised?
This would depend on your activities, the body of my (wrist mounted)
aladin pro is looking pretty rough now from taking crayfish (rock lobster)
with both hands from small holes.
> When I take my Datamax Sport in for servicing, can they polish the glass to
> remove the scratches (like they do to watch crystals) or do I have to replace
> the glass (and how much do they charge for that)?
It would probably be easier to replace the glass, an optical dispenser may
be able to polish off shallow scratches, but there would be an associated
cost. As the glass may flex during a dive, and scratches may weaken the
glass to the point of fracture, it would be best to have the glass replaced
if these scratches are deep. You could fashion or buy a stainless steel cage
to enclose the unit for future protection.
Regards,
Matthew
o,--------------, .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
|| | / : Matthew Hepburn Mckenzie :
|| | / : 38/216 Cambridge Street :
|| | \ : WEMBLEY WA 6014 :
|| | \ : AUSTRALIA :
|/--------------' : Ph. +61 9 382 4819 :
| .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
|
| PSImail: psi%050529452300070::SMCKENZI01
| Internet: SMCKE...@cc.curtin.edu.au
/~~~~~~\ Bitnet: SMCKENZI01%cc.curti...@cunyvm.bitnet
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ UUCP : uunet!munnari.oz!cc.curtin.edu.au!SMCKENZI01
Lee Jones
>(Stephen Lui) writes:
>
>>I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount. After my
>first
>>dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several scratches on the glass face.
>
Run, don't walk, to your nearest dive shop and buy the Gage-Gard for your
computer. It's manufactured by a company called St. Clair (I think). The
puppies work like a charm. I put one on my Monitor II before it ever went
in the water. I have forgotten it's there, but it has no doubt saved the
face of the computer on numerous occasions without my knowing it.
Regards, Lee
Anthony DeBoer
>
>I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount. After my first
>dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several scratches on the glass face.
>If I was using a wrist mount instead, would these scratches be minimized? I
>did secure the console to my BC so it wasn't dangling.
There is a company out there somewhere that makes protective "cages" for
several brands of computers. Mine, in the USD Monitor II size, consists
of two rigid wires running vertically in a shallow arch over the face of
the computer, with a crossmember welded in place for an "H" shape. The
ends of the "H" are welded to flat metal flanges that fit securely between
the computer and the rubber console boot. It doesn't obscure too much of
the face, although sometimes I have to tilt it just slightly to get a
reading.
Now, I found this at some company's booth at the Underwater Canada show
here in Toronto last April, and I threw away the packaging afterward, so I
have exactly no idea who makes these or where one might obtain one.
--
Anthony DeBoer NAUI # Z8800, D5482 | Why watch TV, when Netnews provides
a...@herboid.uucp | a...@geac.com | 100% of your daily requirement for
uunet!geac!herboid!adb | trivia and meaningless entertainment?
Dale Dozier
>> Stephen Lui writes:
>>
>> I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount. After my
>> first
>> dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several scratches on the glass face.
>> ....
>> When I take my Datamax Sport in for servicing, can they polish the glass to
>> remove the scratches (like they do to watch crystals) or do I have to
>> replace
>> the glass (and how much do they charge for that)?
>
>
> I don't know for sure about the new ones, but my 2 year old Datamax
>Sport has a plastic face. I suspect that your's is also plastic. I have
>been successful in alleviating small scratches by polishing the plastic with
>automobile body polish (the type sold as a paste, labelled "polishing
>compound"). Make sure you get polish, not "rubbing compound" which is a
>coarser abrasive. You end up polishing the surface of the plastic the way
>you polish the paint on a car. This will not remove scratches, but makes
>them less prominent. In an extreme emergency if the gage surface is mortally
>wounded, you might try sanding it smooth with number 400 and then number 600
>wet and dry abrasive paper, followed by polishing compound.
The Data Max Sport has a lexan polycarbonate housing and face. You can
have the factory replace the entire case for about $100 or use the polishing
method already described. I havew also seen an after market cover that
snaps on the outside of the console. I have about 100 dives on mine and
it is pretty scratched up but you can't tell when it is in the water. Out
of the water it is easily readable but looks pretty bad.
-Dale
Lawrence LEONG
|dun...@boulder.Colorado.EDU (S Dunbar) writes:
|
|> I recently bought an Oceanic Datamax Sport in the console mount.
|> After my first dive (at Laguna Beach) my computer had several
|> scratches on the glass face.
|
|You can avoid this problem by applying clear adhesive film over the flat
|glass faces of consoles and computers. Untextured film is best but textured
|film can be read through just as easily underwater. I only have to reapply
|every two years or so. The film also hides scratches incurred.
Agreed. I would recommend 3M's abrasion resistant tape (locally referred to
as "rhino skin").
lawrence