Diver Death in Pompano B. Fl......"Murder on the IANTD Express" ---student killed by instructor
Dan Volker
Last night I had a terrible call from a friend of mine who is a freediver.
His girlfriend Jane, who was on her first trimix training dive in the ocean,
had not made it back to the surface. He asked that George Irvine , Robert
Carmichael and I do a search and recovery as soon as possible.
Jane was a pretty, athletic girl. A triathlete and tennis player, fitness
was not her problem. She and her boyfriend Alan, had planned to go to Mexico
to dive some caves several months from now, and Jane wanted to learn the
trimix portion of her skills now locally, before traveling to Gainesville to
be trained in deep cave diving by Jarrod Jablonski---the top cave diving
instructor in America. Unfortunately, Jane thought she could pick an
acredited agency like IANTD, to train her on the trimix prerequisite.
If only she had let Jarrod train her in trimix as well.....
But how would she have known this IANTD instructor was unsafe, and
potentially criminally negligent with students??? If you are not already a
seasoned tech diver, HOW are you going to know which tech instructors are
good, and which are potential killers?
Maybe someone thinks I'm exagerating here. Lets run through what I'll call
the "murder in progress":
Its this girl's first trimix dive ( according to her boyfriend Alan). An
intelligent, well trainined instructor would need to teach the new trimix
student how to manage 4 tanks and three gas mixes, , in this case a drysuit
as well, and a Dive Link comunications device was thrown in as well. With
all these new gear stresses, you would expect the intelligent instructor to
do a few dives in 12 to 20 feet of water, while skill could be tested in a
non-life threatening environment, and student reactions could be observed.
What happened????The IANTD instructor, his name Derek, takes this girl down
on what is supposed to be a 300 foot deep dive---even though this is her
first dive. Now I think this is pretty criminal, but this is NOT even close
to the severity of stupidity the instructor is guilty of next. After getting
to perhaps 270, and only doing a total of 13 minutes since they got in the
water, they call the dive, due to low vis on the bottom layer. Fine. They go
up to their deco stops starting at around 120, and by the time they hit the
40 foot stop, the instructor sees that Jane is out of deco gas, so he tells
her to go up to 30 feet and breathe 80/20 oxygen ( stroke mix in
itself----i.e., moron mix, 100% is what a tech diver should use---but this
is non contributory) ....So you have this "instructor" seeing his student
has somehow managed to run through an entire 80 cu foot tank of deco gas,
after only a 13 minute bottom time....Should he have been concerned that,
"Maybe something was wrong with her"???? What does the butthead do????He
tells her to go up by her self to 30 feet, and use 80/20. HE, the
instructor, then goes back to the very important task of trying to untangle
a down line---certainly more important than his student's life. He then
says, he notices her get to about 20 feet, from too much inflation, and
that she dumped to go back to 30. He goes back to his important task of
fixing the down line, and then notices her at 20 feet below him---and he's
at 40........Now if he "REALLY' is an "instructor, don't you think he might
figure that if she's on 80/20 ( a mix good only to 30 feet), and he's at 40
feet, with her 20 feet below him----there must be a SEVERE, LIFE THREATENING
PROBLEM GOING ON!!!!
What does he do???? Nothing but screw with his downline....
Now, what you have not heard about so far are two of the other divers on
this dive. One was having to help his buddy, who had been incapacitated at
depth---the word they used was narced out of his mind. The guy helping the
narced diver, escorted his friend to 40 or 50 feet, and was waiting for this
guy to get his "shit" back together. As this was beginning to happen, this
diver noticed Jane was sinking fast. ( this guy's name was George---I don't
know his last name, but he was the only one who at least tried to help) This
guy tried to go after her, as he saw her falling 30 feet below him, but had
a bad sinus block, and could not get below 100 feet----so Jane continued
down, unconsicious. As she dropped below 100 feet, and left view, this
Derek guy stayed at 40 feet, and did nothing to help his buddy, which was
also his student.
Now you might wonder how this girl could have passed out, and how could a
diver get "narced" out of their brains on 13.5 % trimix, on a 270 foot dive.
Robert Carmichael, George Irvine, and I have a theory on this. When we
found this girl, resting on the bottom in 259 feet, by the foot of the
Cory'n Chris ( a wreck) her arms were outstretched, one hand holding her
dive tables, the other holding her bc inflator hose. She looked like she was
reading her tables. Her mask was right next to her, the gear was
neat----that is to say, the was no chance she had had an oxygen hit----the
violent muscle contractions and body wrenching of a seizure would have
created an entirely different picture than the what we saw. Our theory is
that the Dive Links, which are for recreational dive of 100 feet or less,
represented "dead space" in the breathing system, where CO2 build up to
dangeous levels. At 250 feet, the partial pressure of O2 is so high, that
the blood continues to supply the body with O2 , even though the blood
chemistry is changing horribly by massive CO2 buildup. As she approached the
surface, she no longer had the high partial pressure of O2 allowing her to
function with the high CO2 levels---at this point, the CO2 levels would
interfere with her ability to absorb O2, and she experienced what freedivers
experience as "Shallow water Blackout".
A. She should have been doing a 20 foot dive instead of this deep dive, to
learn the skills.
B. The instructor should have stayed with her, his student and buddy, and
DONE HIS JOB.
C. The tanks should have been marked---all we saw was some stupid IANTD
stickers--no way for us to know what gas was was coming out of either of the
stage tanks--one would be nitrox, one would be 80/20. Without markings, how
would the other divers know if she was breathing the right mix????
D. Dive Links should NOT have been used on this dive. most of them flooded
and did not work anyway. And they may have caused death by CO2 poisoning, as
well as the mental problem referred to as a narcosis in the other diver.
E.. When Jane dropped, the instructor should have stopped his screwing
around
and gone after her. She could have been resusitated at the surface. With his
tiny 13 minute bottom time, he should have had PLENTY of gas to go right
back down. If he is not prepared to do this , he should NOT be a tech
diver, and he should NEVER be allowed to teach anyone any kind of diving
again. And who ever certified this criminally negligent moron should be
considered an accomplice to homicide.
Tom Mount,
I am calling you out on
this....This guy should NEVER have been an instructor. How many more ticking
time bombs have you certified as instructors---how many more people will be
trainined by IANTD as instructors, who will then go out and kill by their
incompetence, and reckless disregard for the lives of the students in their
charge.
I submit, ALL IANTD INSTUCTORS SHOULD HAVE THEIR CARDS YANKED, PENDING A
REVIEW OF THEIR COMPETENCE. I know there will be many EXTREMELY GOOD" IANTD
instructors, but I am equally certain, there area great MANY potentially
"Lethal" threats out there, armed with IANTD instuctor cards, and ready to
kill an unsuspecting and trusting dive public. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!! We
see a huge pattern. Andre Smith ( Divers Supply) was the same story, we told
everybody IANTD needed to do something----but NOTHING WAS DONE!!! Tom
MOUNT...DO something right now, or consider yourself an accomplice to
murder. I will NOT tolerate more deaths by incompetent instructors, with no
regard for the lives of their students. The world is about to find out
EVERYTHING about what's wrong with current tech dive instruction. Forget
covering your tracks---your caught-----worry about trying to find a change
that will strip the large percentage of lethal dive instructors from your
agency. Derek KILLED this girl. Are you going to support actions like his,
or eliminate threats to the dive public, such as the instructor threat he
represents???
Very Sadly,
Dan Volker
Jason O'Rourke
Dan - what are the Diver Links you referred to?
my condolences to all involved
Jason
--
Jason O'Rourke j...@best.com www.jor.com
'96 BMW r850R '98 Outback
last dive: April 5th, "Sleeping Sharks Cave Farce," Isla Mujeres
45 mins at 58feet.
Dave Coulter
Barney wrote in message <355e73ca...@news.concentric.net>...
>Was there a detailed analysis done on the gas in everyone's tanks?
>
>You've got one diver who died, a diver 'narced out of his brain', an
>instructor who sounds as though he were narced out of his brain, and a
>sinus squeeze at a depth I would not expect.
>
>Sounds like carbon monoxide poisoning to me.
CO is cumulative and not easily offgassed...... The divers would have
clearly exhibited symptoms for days and would likely ALL be dead..... I
think even a minute amount of CO at the partial pressures involved would be
nearly instant death (0.1% CO at 1 atm is lethal with a few breaths).
A sad case of trusting an irresponsible instructor too much! If the
original facts are accurate it is at least negligent homicide.
Dave Coulter
Hctib
> 0.1% also seems like an incredibly small
> amount to be lethal. If you have a source document for this
> information, I would certainly like to take a look at it.
i think (and this is a vuage memory so if anyone can clear this up i'd
appreciate it) that the HSE in the uk will 'fail' a compressor during
its air test if it gives out 1 part/ million of CO, which is what?
0.0001pp/co?
> I saw a shop owner in New Jersey spas-out when a vehicle was left
> running in close proximity to his compressor. I watched him open
> every valve on every tank that was in his shop, and send people in
> search of a couple of tanks that had "possibly" been filled. I never
> saw the shop owner take anything so seriously and it left a lasting
> impression in my mind.
once had a spate of real bad headaches after dives, and it would always
start during a dive with the same cylinder.....a 15L (122cuft) cylinder
that i never breathed down very far before i filled it becouse of
teh headaches, after a short while i cought on, bled it right down to
empty and got it re-filled...... no headaches ever since.
Mike
Glawackus
>From: Curr...@Home.com (Barney)
>Dave Coulter, graced us all
>with:
>> (0.1% CO at 1 atm is lethal with a few breaths).
> 0.1% also seems like an incredibly small
>amount to be lethal.
I don't remember the exact figures, but Hemoglobin has a *much* higher
affinity for CO than for O2. The figure that comes to mind is 100 times
stronger, but I may be mistaken. If that figure is correct, 0.1% would
possibly have a similar effect to replacing 10% O2 (meaning 1/2 the O2, not
10% of the 21%). Also bear in mind that while they may have only spent a few
minutes at depth, they spent some time breathing at about 9 ATM, so now we're
talking about pp CO = .009 times 100 (for the affinity of hemoglobin) = .9, or
nearly a full ATM in terms of possible effect.
( Please bear in mind that we are *only* speculating about the *possible*
presence of CO. We don't know that it was a factor in the incident. )
Perhaps somebody with a more definitive understanding of the physiology
involved can contribute to this.
Steve
The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. Or it might just be to
generate discussion.
Barney
Larry "Harris" Taylor, Ph.D. wrote:
> From my article Things Your Instructor Did Not Tell You About Deep Diving
> (The numbers quoted came from Schilling, Physician's Guide TO Diving
> Medicine)
>
> CARBON MONOXIDE (CO) TOXICITY: Despite the tendency to blame diver
> unconsciousness on this malady, it is rarely observed. Carbon monoxide is
> primarily generated from incomplete combustion. It can be present in the air
> supplied from faulty compressors (electric, as well as gas driven) or taken
> into the compressor intake from a CO source such as a kerosene heater, gas
> or diesel engine exhaust or cigarette smoke. The CO binds to hemoglobin
> about 200 times tighter than oxygen. This means the hemoglobin that has
> reacted with CO will not carry oxygen. Lack of oxygen can be fatal. The
> uptake of CO is dependent on the concentration of CO in the breathing gas,
> on respiration rate and the time of exposure. Symptoms may include: frontal
> headache, nausea, tingling in the fingers and toes, lightheadedness, vision
> disturbances or loss of consciousness with no warning. The often quoted
> cherry red lips or fingernails are a very unreliable sign and may only be
> visible at autopsy. At depth the increased partial pressure of oxygen may
> mask some of the hypoxia created by the oxygen deprived carboxyhemoglobin.
> On ascent, the hemoglobin will still be compromised, but the decreased pO2
> will no longer compensate and unconsciousness occurs without warning.
>
> Finally, the U.S. Navy pure air standards for breathing compressed air
> allow only 20 ppm CO in scuba air. Smoke from an American cigarette
> typically contains about 4% (20,000 ppm) CO. The average inhalation of a
> smoker contains about 500 ppm CO. This means that finishing a cigarette
> just before a dive will make about 3 -7% of the hemoglobin in the blood
> unable to carry oxygen. The oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells
> will be diminished for 5-8 hrs after the last exposure to smoke. Breathing
> smoke, actively or passively, will decrease the ability of the blood to
> carry oxygen and this decrease in efficiency may contribute to decreased
> performance at depth.
>
> BTW ... I have an electronic version (33K) of this article ... I will send
> it to anyone who asks via e-mail ... I ask that you respect my time and
> remove any "cute, antispam, hindrance to auto-reply" crap in your e-mail
> address. My responses to requests for information use auto-reply only. If
> you de-activate the auto-reply, you destroy my ability to send you what you
> have requested.
>
> Dive long and prosper,
>
> Harris
>
> --
> "Harris"
> Larry "Harris" Taylor, Ph.D.
> Scuba Instructor, U of MI
> l...@umich.edu
>
> Glawackus wrote in message
> <199805050453...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >generate discussion.I
My ANUS hurts
--
Barnacle Barney
Life is a tragedy for those who feel
and a comedy for those who think
'Chinese fortune cookie'
Barney
Did I hear you also call yourself Larry "hairless" and Larry "ballless"
Dumb ass
Eanx32
underwater communication device that fits over the second stage and replaces
the mouth peice with a larger one. the speaker replaces the mask strap and the
baterry pack is located on the back of the head.
Dan Volker
--
Dan Volker
South Florida Dive Journal
http://www.sfdj.com/
The Internet magazine for u/w photography and mpeg video
Jason O'Rourke wrote in article <6il1v3$8as$1...@shell9.ba.best.com>...
>Dan - what are the Diver Links you referred to?
>
While I won't guarantee this is the same brand and model, here is a url for
the type of gear we are talking
about.....http://www.nn.net/divetime/SDvLnk.htm
Regards,
Dan
docp...@iname.com
In article <199805050453...@ladder01.news.aol.com>#1/1,
glaw...@aol.com (Glawackus) wrote:
>
> Hemoglobin has a *much* higher
> affinity for CO than for O2. The figure that comes to mind is 100 times
> stronger, but I may be mistaken.
Actually, Steve, if I remember my pulmonary phys correctly, CO has an affinity
of 220 times that of oxygen for hemoglobin.
Perry
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Glawackus
>From: docp...@iname.com
> glaw...@aol.com (Glawackus) wrote:
>>
>> Hemoglobin has a *much* higher
>> affinity for CO than for O2. The figure that comes to mind is 100 times
>> stronger, but I may be mistaken.
>
>Actually, Steve, if I remember my pulmonary phys correctly, CO has an
>affinity
>of 220 times that of oxygen for hemoglobin.
Harris posted info from a medical text or paper listing it as 200. I certainly
won't quibble about 10% or so, but his source said the *bond* is 200 times
stronger; this may leave us without any solid info on how easily the CO
*becomes* bonded to the hemoglobin.
Again, if anybody wishes to address this point, have at it.
Fran Flandro
The latest Sun-Sentinel article can be found at:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/daily/detail/1,1136,4000000000025787,00.html
Go get'em Dan.
-Fran Flandro
Fran Flandro
Glawackus wrote:
>
> >From: docp...@iname.com
>
> > glaw...@aol.com (Glawackus) wrote:
> >>
> >> Hemoglobin has a *much* higher
> >> affinity for CO than for O2. The figure that comes to mind is 100 times
> >> stronger, but I may be mistaken.
> >
> >Actually, Steve, if I remember my pulmonary phys correctly, CO has an
> >affinity
> >of 220 times that of oxygen for hemoglobin.
>
> Harris posted info from a medical text or paper listing it as 200. I certainly
> won't quibble about 10% or so, but his source said the *bond* is 200 times
> stronger; this may leave us without any solid info on how easily the CO
> *becomes* bonded to the hemoglobin.
>
> Again, if anybody wishes to address this point, have at it.
>
> Steve
I've located two relevant links on the topic of CO in compressed breathing
air.
Abstract re: CO in Compressed breathing air at-
http://www.mcgill.ca/occh/austin3e.htm
Link to a NOAA page on Respiratory Diving Physiology at-
http://www.uwsports.ycg.com/reference_library/noaa/section_03/subsection_01_03.html
-Fran Flandro
Glawackus
>From: "Larry \"Harris\" Taylor, Ph.D." <l...@umich.edu>
>At what level do you wish to discuss this??????
>
>The ** binding affinity** (how strong an attraction exists between
molecules of
>iron and either oxygen or carbon monoxide) is approximately 200 times
>greater for carbon monoxide than for oxygen
(My emphasis added above) That's exactly what I was interested in. Since
there can be a strong bond between atoms or molecules that don't develop that
bond easily, I was curious as to how readily the CO makes the bond with the
hemoglobin, since that's the step that leads to CO poisoning. Thanks much.
Bob Servis
You have to admit that Volker is a guy who really takes his first name
(or at least his nickname, DAN) seriously.
Dive safely,
Bob
Barney
Eanx32 wrote:
--Barnacle Barney
Eanx32
nice to see you here Barney. What wisdome do you for us today?
Jeff &or Kathy Brown
The real Barney will have hon-hi in the NNTP properties. I look at the
properties of any messages posted as "Barney" now because the "fake" Barney
is truly obnoxious. I wish there was a way to do something about him,
outside of the kill file.