PADI Gold Weight Belt Specialty
Reef Fish
In article <325C54...@gol.com>, Steve Kramer <stev...@gol.com> writes:
> GTFORMAN wrote:
>
>> While I don't want to start a flame war, I feel I could safely Gold Brick
>> dive without attending the specialty course.
>
> As a PADI professional, I'd recomend that you pay lots more money (at
> least enough to cover costs of my new PADI hat, PADI T-shirt, etc.)
> and attend the REQUIRED-IF-YOU-WANT-TO-DIVE-WITH-OUR-SHOP course in Gold
> Brick Diving. BTW, gold weights are now recommended for fire diving, as
> the melting point is much higher, therefore not risking the problems
> incured when your lead weights melt away.
>
> Steve Kramer
> PADI DM-96455
That's right, Steve! Not only that, but you can get separate patches
for different SUB-Specialties, to name just a few:
Gold Brick Diver
Gold Fire Diver
(*) 24K Gold Chain Diver
(*) 18K Gold Rolex Diver
18K Gold Chain Diver
(*) 24K Gold Bracelet Diver
18K Gold Bracelet Diver
(*) Gold Diver Basket-weaving Specialty
(buoyancy course ala "Basket-Weaving" Specialty
Sorry, you cheapskate 14K-and-lower gold-divers can't AFFORD these
patches! :-) The idea of doubling, tripling or quadrupling the
Specialty Patches is that you can be a PADI Master Scuba Diver (with
any 5 Specialties) by doing just a few dives with your weightbelt on!
The multi-Specialty-in-one-course idea is of course not new at all.
I almost forgot to mention -- you PAY PADI for the Specialty cards
separately -- n cards in one course, n times cost of 1 card.
For my Ice Diver Specialty, which I took in Charlie Hammond's (Gold
Brick Diver) home state of New Hampshire, I COULD have gotten (for the
same Ice Diver Specialty traning) PADI Specialties for "Drysuit Diver",
"Cold Water Diver", and at least a few other collateral Specialties
in the catalog of PADI Specialties -- no joke here!! Serious.
Unfortunately (or fortunately), by the time I got the Ice Diver cert,
in 1989, I was already a MSD and my divebag had no more room for any
more patches. ;-) At THAT time, PADI already had over 300 Specialties!
I tried to call PADI at (1-800-PAY-PADI) -- not a joke either, though
PADI says it was meant to spell SAY-PADI, the same 1-800-729-7232, to
try to find out how many PADI Specialties there are now, but got a
recording instead of a real person (used to be), so I dunno, but I tried.
BTW, where is the DIVE-PRO guy who used to be on rec.scuba and was
supposed to be a real PADI Official. What's the scoop on the
NUMBER of PADI Specialties now? Is there a quota like 10,000?
Will the Gold Diver Specialties put us over the limit? I am sure
hundreds of rec.scuba readers are lining up for those Specialties now!
-- Bob.
P.S. I am sure I qualify for the FOUR (*) patches! <G> Alas,
I can't afford those patches either. :) Spent $$ on gold!
Chuck Hopf
Terry May
In <18305.8...@scifi.maid.com> Reef Fish (Large Nassau Grouper)
>Not only that, but you can get separate patches
>for different SUB-Specialties, to name just a few:
>
> Gold Brick Diver
> Gold Fire Diver
> (*) 24K Gold Chain Diver
> (*) 18K Gold Rolex Diver
> 18K Gold Chain Diver
> (*) 24K Gold Bracelet Diver
> 18K Gold Bracelet Diver
> (*) Gold Diver Basket-weaving Specialty
> (buoyancy course ala "Basket-Weaving" Specialty
>
>Sorry, you cheapskate 14K-and-lower gold-divers can't AFFORD these
>patches! :-) The idea of doubling, tripling or quadrupling the
>Specialty Patches is that you can be a PADI Master Scuba Diver (with
>any 5 Specialties) by doing just a few dives with your weightbelt on!
>
>in 1989, I was already a MSD and my divebag had no more room for any
>more patches. ;-) At THAT time, PADI already had over 300
Specialties!
>
>I tried to call PADI at (1-800-PAY-PADI) -- not a joke either, though
>PADI says it was meant to spell SAY-PADI, the same 1-800-729-7232, to
>try to find out how many PADI Specialties there are now, but got a
>recording instead of a real person (used to be), so I dunno, but I
tried.
>
>BTW, where is the DIVE-PRO guy who used to be on rec.scuba and was
>supposed to be a real PADI Official. What's the scoop on the
>NUMBER of PADI Specialties now? Is there a quota like 10,000?
>Will the Gold Diver Specialties put us over the limit? I am sure
>hundreds of rec.scuba readers are lining up for those Specialties now!
>
>-- Bob.
>
>P.S. I am sure I qualify for the FOUR (*) patches! <G> Alas,
> I can't afford those patches either. :) Spent $$ on gold!
I received my PADI Stainless Steel Drysuit and Deep Air Certs last week
in Puget Sound. The patches are much more durable and lighter than the
gold ones. Plus, they won't eventually corrode off my jackets (1 full,
the other about 75% to capacity).
T.MAY
LA SAT TECH DIVERS/KEYSTONE Facility Director
www.keystonecom.com
www.netcom.com/~tleemay/
Sensormatic
This whole thread is getting very alarming. I know you guys are only
pulling legs, but lots of novice divers might not realise that.
The dangers of diving with gold weight systems are well documented, and
the practice was outlawed by BS-AC in 1872, after a diver, reluctant to
ditch such a costly item of gear, discarded thirty pounds of live
munitions just recovered from the wrech of HMS Unspeakable. The ammo
had been planned for the club party, which was subsequently a very
dismal affair.
--
Nick Simon
Robert Gallo
Reef Fish (Large Nassau Grouper) <RF...@CLEMSON.EDU> wrote:
>In article <325C54...@gol.com>, Steve Kramer <stev...@gol.com> writes:
>> GTFORMAN wrote:
>>
>>> While I don't want to start a flame war, I feel I could safely Gold Brick
>>> dive without attending the specialty course.
>>
>> As a PADI professional, I'd recomend that you pay lots more money (at
>> least enough to cover costs of my new PADI hat, PADI T-shirt, etc.)
>> and attend the REQUIRED-IF-YOU-WANT-TO-DIVE-WITH-OUR-SHOP course in Gold
>> Brick Diving. BTW, gold weights are now recommended for fire diving, as
>> the melting point is much higher, therefore not risking the problems
>> incured when your lead weights melt away.
>>
>> Steve Kramer
>> PADI DM-96455
>That's right, Steve! Not only that, but you can get separate patches
>for different SUB-Specialties, to name just a few:
> Gold Brick Diver
> Gold Fire Diver
> (*) 24K Gold Chain Diver
> (*) 18K Gold Rolex Diver
> 18K Gold Chain Diver
> (*) 24K Gold Bracelet Diver
> 18K Gold Bracelet Diver
> (*) Gold Diver Basket-weaving Specialty
> (buoyancy course ala "Basket-Weaving" Specialty
>Sorry, you cheapskate 14K-and-lower gold-divers can't AFFORD these
>patches! :-) The idea of doubling, tripling or quadrupling the
>Specialty Patches is that you can be a PADI Master Scuba Diver (with
>any 5 Specialties) by doing just a few dives with your weightbelt on!
>The multi-Specialty-in-one-course idea is of course not new at all.
>I almost forgot to mention -- you PAY PADI for the Specialty cards
>separately -- n cards in one course, n times cost of 1 card.
>For my Ice Diver Specialty, which I took in Charlie Hammond's (Gold
>Brick Diver) home state of New Hampshire, I COULD have gotten (for the
>same Ice Diver Specialty traning) PADI Specialties for "Drysuit Diver",
>"Cold Water Diver", and at least a few other collateral Specialties
>in the catalog of PADI Specialties -- no joke here!! Serious.
Just for the record, PADI does not allow single dives to be credited
to multi-specialties. This *IS* a PADI standard. In other words you
can’t make a single dive from a boat, at night, go to 90 FSW, on a
wreck, in a dry suit, with a camera, wearing gold bricks, and get
credit for a dive an all those nifty specialties, at the same time.
Each Specialty has a required number of dives you must make, and each
of those dives have specific requirements and objectives that the
diver must meet to be awarded the corresponding specialty. Take the
Gold Bar Divers specialty, during one of the dives you would probably
have to demonstrate how to correctly remove and replace your gold bar
weight belt on the surface and at depth, with out assistance. You
might also be quizzed on how to properly store and safe guard your
gold bar weight belt after a dive. Each training dive has specific
objectives depending on the specialty, and you can not combine the
objectives, or requirements, of multiple specialties into one dive.
So even though I’m wearing that dry suit and carrying that camera, and
diving off a boat, and wearing all that gold, I can only get credit
for one dive in one specialty. I’m sure you can probably find some
instructors that are willing to take your money and give you a card.
without making you do the required training. I don’t know about
you, but when it comes to taking care of my gold weight belt, I want
all the training that I paid for!
Dive Safe
Rooster
Robert Gallo
Dive Safe
Rooster
Reef Fish
Rooster <rga...@mail.gld.com (Robert Gallo)> says of my tongue-in-cheek
comment that one can get several Gold Diver Specialties by "doing just a
few dives with your weightbelt on!", and the serious remark that
>> The multi-Specialty-in-one-course idea is of course not new at all.
> Just for the record, PADI does not allow single dives to be credited
> to multi-specialties. This *IS* a PADI standard. In other words you
< ... >
For WHOSE record? That may be "PADI standard" in THEORY, but definitely
NOT in PRACTICE. To quote Flash Gordon, M.D., who posted these immortal
words in his .sig in rec.scuba, 1993:
FG> in theory, there is no difference between
FG> theory and practice. but in practice, there is.
FG> flash gordon, m.d. fl...@well.sf.ca.us
In REALITY and in PRACTICE, PADI approves the "syllabus" for a PADI
Specialty Course, and issues a card for $xx, based on the signature of
the instructor of the Specialty Course. The INSTRUCTOR is the sole
person who determines whether a card (or multiple cards) should or can
be issued on the SAME DIVES.
As a matter of fact, I DID get a "Cold Water Diver" Specialty cert
as a collateral specialty for having successfully completed the
"Ice Diver" Specialty, from a PADI GOLD :-) Five Star dive shop!
^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
I never KNEW what the "Cold Water Diver" requirement was, but I was
pretty sure that it is quite impossible to ICE DIVE without being
qualified to dive in COLD WATER, don't you? ;-) In this case,
I paid the COURSE FEE $$$ only for the Ice Diver training, which
included the $15 (in 1989) for the Ice Diver cert card, but had to
pay an extra $15 for the "Cold Water Diver" if I wanted the extra
cert WITHOUT any additional training. I thought I was just being
a "good sport" to PA$I by paying $30 for the TWO Specialty cards
neither of which I needed. <g>
I have, FOR MY RECORD (and for PADI, or Rooster if he is a PA$I
official) several OTHER multi-cards/multi-certs on the same set of
DIVES! (I was young and foolish then and thought collecting PADI cards
was like baseball-card collecting. :-))
Of course, I'll be MORE THAN HAPPY now to return those cards to PA$I
for a refund! I won't even charge them interest for the card fees. <G>
Rooster, you're getting CLOSER to the truth when you said,
> I'm sure you can probably find some instructors that are willing to
> take your money and give you a card. without making you do the
> required training.
You get only PARTIAL CREDIT on this. There are several ERRORS:
1. For the EXTRA card itself, PA$I takes the money, not the instructor.
2. There are PLENTY of instructors who do multiple Specialty certs
on the SAME DIVES. DIVES are only part of the requirements for
many Specialty certs -- the book work may be the majority of the
requirement for SOME specialties.
3. It does not follow that if multi-certs are given on the SAME DIVES
then the instructor does so "without making you do the required
training." Too many examples to enumerate here.
> I don't know about you, but when it comes to taking care of my gold
> weight belt, I want all the training that I paid for!"
NOW you're talking! :-)
But then, don't forget that a Specialty Patch/Cert and COMPETENCE in
the skill(s) for which the training was meant are NOT synonymous. But
that's a different thread altogether.
-- Bob. Holder of NED Falling-Off-Soapbox (safely of course) Specialty.
Just ask any of the Scuba-L Old-Timers! :-o
Dillon Pyron
Sorry Bob, but PADI standards DO state that a dive may only be used as
credit for one speciality. The classic example is the deep, night,
wreck, photo drysuit dive.
Now, if an instructor did that, he/she was clearly in violation.
And considering what I now pay for PICs, your instructor also ripped you
off on them (ie the current is still lower than what you paid in 89).
--
dillon pyron
dillon...@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Damon Hill, 1996 World Driving Champion
Reef Fish
Dillon Pyron <dillon...@amd.com> says,
> Sorry Bob, but PADI standards DO state that a dive may only be used as
> credit for one speciality.
First of all, I was here to talk about Gold Weight Belt Specialties. ;-)
Didn't intend to get into any heavy discourse on PADI standards.
Second, all I said was SOME specialty certs can be earned on the same
SET of dives. I said NOTHING about classroom work, required reading or
number of required dives for said specialties.
Suppose the 24K-Gold-Brick Specialty requires only 1 dive, but lots of
theory about metallurgy and alchemy; and the 18K-Gold-Bracelet Specialty
requires no dive but lots of theory about alloys; and you know about
Equipment Specialist certification -- it requires NO dive at all! So,
the instructor goes over some final details on all THREE Specialties on
the boat ride to the dive site, and after the dive issues the student
THREE Specialty certs, what does PADI say about THAT (not that I really
care) :-).
> The classic example is the deep, night, wreck, photo < ... >
Oh THOSE! But I wasn't talking about any of them. PADI does
have several HUNDRED other Specialties, some are sanctioned to be
taught by only ONE particular instructor, in ONE particular location, in
the WORLD -- the one whose "course content" is approved by PADI. So,
don't generalize your "classic example" specialty courses to all others.
-- Bob.
PADI OWSI-81896. Noooo, heaven forbid -- I am not an instructor in any
dive organization. I have PADI certifications and
Out of Water SInce 8/18/96. <G>
^ ^ ^^ ^ ^^ ^^
Dillon Pyron
Sorry Bob, but PADI standards DO state that a dive may only be used as=20
credit for one speciality. The classic example is the deep, night,=20
wreck, photo drysuit dive.=20
=20
Now, if an instructor did that, he/she was clearly in violation.=20
=20
And considering what I now pay for PICs, your instructor also ripped you=20
off on them (ie the current is still lower than what you paid in 89).=20
=20
-- =20
dillon pyron=20
dillon...@amd.com=20
=20
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031=20
Damon Hill, 1996 World Driving Champion=20
=20
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ws2.amd.com!txnntp.amd.com!usenet=20
From: Dillon Pyron <dillon...@amd.com>=20
Newsgroups: rec.scuba=20
Subject: Re: PADI Gold Weight Belt Specialty=20
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:44:17 -0500=20
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Robert Gallo
Dillon Pyron <dillon...@amd.com> wrote:
>Sorry Bob, but PADI standards DO state that a dive may only be used as
>credit for one speciality. The classic example is the deep, night,
>wreck, photo drysuit dive.
>Now, if an instructor did that, he/she was clearly in violation.
>And considering what I now pay for PICs, your instructor also ripped you
>off on them (ie the current is still lower than what you paid in 89).
>--
>dillon pyron
>dillon...@amd.com
>PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
>Damon Hill, 1996 World Driving Champion
Isn't that what I said?
Please re-read *my* post
Dive Safe
Bob Gallo
(Rooster)
PADI OWSI 56521
PS It *was* a mild attemp at humor
Robert Gallo
Dillon Pyron <dillon...@amd.com> wrote:
>--
>dillon pyron
>dillon...@amd.com
PS It *was* a mild attemp at humor
*my* post follows
Just for the record, PADI does not allow single dives to be credited
to multi-specialties. This *IS* a PADI standard. In other words you
can’t make a single dive from a boat, at night, go to 90 FSW, on a
wreck, in a dry suit, with a camera, wearing gold bricks, and get
credit for a dive an all those nifty specialties, at the same time.
Each Specialty has a required number of dives you must make, and each
of those dives have specific requirements and objectives that the
diver must meet to be awarded the corresponding specialty. Take the
Gold Bar Divers specialty, during one of the dives you would probably
have to demonstrate how to correctly remove and replace your gold bar
weight belt on the surface and at depth, with out assistance. You
might also be quizzed on how to properly store and safe guard your
gold bar weight belt after a dive. Each training dive has specific
objectives depending on the specialty, and you can not combine the
objectives, or requirements, of multiple specialties into one dive.
So even though I’m wearing that dry suit and carrying that camera, and
diving off a boat, and wearing all that gold, I can only get credit
for one dive in one specialty. I’m sure you can probably find some
instructors that are willing to take your money and give you a card.
without making you do the required training. I don’t know about
you, but when it comes to taking care of my gold weight belt, I want
all the training that I paid for!
Dive Safe
Rooster
Maria D. Maggio
Reef Fish (Large Nassau Grouper) wrote:
> > Rooster <rga...@mail.gld.com (Robert Gallo) says:
> > Just for the record, PADI does not allow single dives to be credited
> > to multi-specialties. This *IS* a PADI standard. In other words you
> < ... >
>
> For WHOSE record?That may be "PADI standard" in THEORY, but definitely
> NOT in PRACTICE.
Rooster is correct in saying that PADI does not allow a single dive
to count towards more than one specialty.
[For those of you with access in an instructor manual, see the first
page of the Specialty Diver Course Instructor Guide. It says:
The combination of two or more specialty courses so that
credit is received for more than one rating during any
training session of a course is not acceptable.
It even goes on to clarify that if you were to take photos on a
wreck dive, that dive could not be credited toward both the
Underwater Photo and the Wreck Diver ratings.]
>
> In REALITY and in PRACTICE, PADI approves the "syllabus" for a PADI
> Specialty Course, and issues a card for $xx, based on the signature of
> the instructor of the Specialty Course. The INSTRUCTOR is the sole
> person who determines whether a card (or multiple cards) should or can
> be issued on the SAME DIVES.
>
The instructor may issue the card, but that doesn't mean that he
or she is doing so within the standards. You are implying that the
instructor is allowed to credit one dive towards more than one
specialty. The instructor just doesn't have that discretion.
Does that mean that no instructor would ever violate this (or
any other) standard? Of course not, but then again, there's
nothing that prevents an instructor from issuing any certification
without the student meeting the requirements (other than things like
professional ethics or legal obligation or liability or the risk
of being thrown out of PADI).
> As a matter of fact, I DID get a "Cold Water Diver" Specialty cert
> as a collateral specialty for having successfully completed the
> "Ice Diver" Specialty, from a PADI GOLD :-) Five Star dive shop!
It would be impossible to know if this violated the standards or not
unless we knew the outline of the "Cold Water Diver" course (which
is not a standarized outline). If that specialty required dives
and you did no more than 3 required ice dives, then the instructor
who issued the certifications did so in violation of the standards.
>
> Rooster, you're getting CLOSER to the truth when you said,
>
> > I'm sure you can probably find some instructors that are willing to
> > take your money and give you a card. without making you do the
> > required training.
>
> You get only PARTIAL CREDIT on this. There are several ERRORS:
>
> 1. For the EXTRA card itself, PA$I takes the money, not the instructor.
Well, I've seen this range from cost to something more than cost
for multiple certs. In your case, $15 is pretty close to cost.
Also, remember this is something different from the case where
you issue two certifications from different organizations. I often
teach the DAN O2 class and PADI Oyxgen First Aid class as a single
class. The requirements are identical. I give either or both
certs depending on what the students want. There's nothing wrong
with this. But then again, there are no dives involved in this.
I've also seen people teach both NAUI and PADI rescue classes
and will issue both certifications assuming both sets of requirements
have been met.
>
> 2. There are PLENTY of instructors who do multiple Specialty certs
> on the SAME DIVES. DIVES are only part of the requirements for
> many Specialty certs -- the book work may be the majority of the
> requirement for SOME specialties.
If dives are required, and instructor counts one dive toward more
than one specialty, then they have violated the standards. And, you
as a student have not met the requirements.
>
> 3. It does not follow that if multi-certs are given on the SAME DIVES
> then the instructor does so "without making you do the required
> training." Too many examples to enumerate here.
It does follow. Again, there is nothing that prevents the instructor
from issuing the certification, but he or she did so without
making you do the required training. If I take 2 specialty courses
that each require 3 dives, and I only do 3 dives total and get
both specialty cards, then I didn't do all of the required training.
Sigh....I hate when instructors don't follow the standards. It
gives all of us a bad name. Some of us actually teach because
we love it (and try our best to do a good, professional, and
thorough job) and not because we want to take your money and give
you no value in return (i.e. a bunch of laminated cards).
Maria