New discovery in Belize
hierophant
Can someone tell me why some of the divers wearing doubles have their
tanks so far apart on their body? It seems like the tanks are almost
to their sides.
JRE
Alan Browne
Cave diving. There is a good PBS video of a recent Bahamas expedition
at the PBS site.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/cavedive/
--
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.
hierophant
> hierophant wrote:
> >http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/news/history-archaeo...
>
> > Can someone tell me why some of the divers wearing doubles have their
> > tanks so far apart on their body? It seems like the tanks are almost
> > to their sides.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidemount
>
> --
> John Eells
Thank you for the wiki. After reading it, I still don't understand
why having tanks at your sides would be a good thing. I'm thinking if
you're cave diving, you want a slimmer profile but I've never been
cave diving. I've been diving in cenotes and it was stressed to "stay
compact and keep your fins up". I can do the bent knee finning and I
can helicopter turn so I know a little bit. Please explain why if you
are trying to fit though a small cave opening and/or continue along a
narrow cave passage, that it is an advantage to have your tanks at
your sides. I'm not seeing the big picture obvisiously.
hierophant
wrote:
> On 10-07-10 7:35 , hierophant wrote:
>
>
> > Can someone tell me why some of the divers wearing doubles have their
> > tanks so far apart on their body? It seems like the tanks are almost
> > to their sides.
>
> Cave diving. There is a good PBS video of a recent Bahamas expedition
>
> --
> gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.
Thank you. I was able to get the narration but not the video. Today
isn't my day it seems. Can you explain what the video shows?
Al Wells
> Thank you for the wiki. After reading it, I still don't understand why
> having tanks at your sides would be a good thing. I'm thinking if
> you're cave diving, you want a slimmer profile but I've never been cave
> diving. I've been diving in cenotes and it was stressed to "stay
> compact and keep your fins up". I can do the bent knee finning and I
> can helicopter turn so I know a little bit. Please explain why if you
> are trying to fit though a small cave opening and/or continue along a
> narrow cave passage, that it is an advantage to have your tanks at your
> sides. I'm not seeing the big picture obvisiously.
Having the tanks at your sides reduces your profile by about 8", allowing
you to get into smaller vertical openings. The tanks are attached in a
way that makes them easily removable if you really want to go into
something small. Many people use this configuration because you can carry
the tanks one at a time to the water and then put them on, instead of
having to deal with a heavy set of doubles.
The sidemount system does require more complex gas management, as the
tanks are independent from each other and you have to make sure that you
can always get out on what is left in either one of your tanks in case of
a regulator or valve failure. With manifolded doubles, even if one
regulator fails, you still have access to all of the gas in both tanks. A
clean hose routing is also harder with sidemount.
hierophant
Wow! Thanks for your reply. It sounds like you know a good deal
about cave diving. But your reply still seems illogical to me. I can
understand the smaller vertical opening but are you saying that you
can move the side mounts around if you come to a smaller horizontal
opening? So basically you are saying these tanks are movable in all
directions? But the problem comes in when you need to switch gas?
This is nuts. If you dive like this, more congrats to you. It's
insane.
Al Wells
> Wow! Thanks for your reply. It sounds like you know a good deal about
> cave diving. But your reply still seems illogical to me. I can
> understand the smaller vertical opening but are you saying that you can
> move the side mounts around if you come to a smaller horizontal opening?
> So basically you are saying these tanks are movable in all directions?
> But the problem comes in when you need to switch gas? This is nuts. If
> you dive like this, more congrats to you. It's insane.
The tanks can move around a bit,depending on the attachment method, but
they can also be removed and pushed in front of you if you really want
to. In sidemount, both tanks contain the same bottom mix and other tanks
of deco gas are carried and dropped at their MOD.
For gas management, you have to remember to switch tanks at the right
time. Since cave divers generally follow the rule of thirds, you can only
breathe 1/3 of either tank on your penetration, and the remaining 2/3 in
either tank will get you out if you have a failure in one tank. It
doesn't leave anything for your buddy though, and most sidemounters dive
as though they are solo, even with a buddy. I dive manifolded doubles,
and I don't dive with sidemounters.
al
hierophant
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:11:33 -0700, hierophant wrote:
> > Wow! Thanks for your reply. It sounds like you know a good deal about
> > cave diving. But your reply still seems illogical to me. I can
> > understand the smaller vertical opening but are you saying that you can
> > move the side mounts around if you come to a smaller horizontal opening?
> > So basically you are saying these tanks are movable in all directions?
> > But the problem comes in when you need to switch gas? This is nuts. If
> > you dive like this, more congrats to you. It's insane.
>
> The tanks can move around a bit,depending on the attachment method, but
> they can also be removed and pushed in front of you if you really want
> to. In sidemount, both tanks contain the same bottom mix and other tanks
> of deco gas are carried and dropped at their MOD.
Ok. So you can move the tanks around. Push them in front of you as
to squeeze through a small space. Just the very thought of doing that
makes me clostrophobic. But I understand why you would do that while
trying to dive a cave.
> For gas management, you have to remember to switch tanks at the right
> time. Since cave divers generally follow the rule of thirds, you can only
> breathe 1/3 of either tank on your penetration, and the remaining 2/3 in
> either tank will get you out if you have a failure in one tank. It
> doesn't leave anything for your buddy though, and most sidemounters dive
> as though they are solo, even with a buddy. I dive manifolded doubles,
> and I don't dive with sidemounters.
>
> al
Good grief pal! I hand it to you for diving that way. But in the
video, they aren't in caves. They are in what's termed "natural
pools" but I guess maybe that is like a cenote? The video mentions
they are going 60 ft to 90 ft deep if I recall right. Why would one
don this sidemount gear config in that instance? Please watch the
video and you'll see what I mean.
1hogrider
>
> Wow! Thanks for your reply. It sounds like you know a good deal
> about cave diving. But your reply still seems illogical to me. I can
Al knows A LOT about all sorts of diving. I have met him in person and
dove off the same boat with him.
In addition to being a very knowledgeable person about diving, he is
very congenial and quite the gentleman.
Alan Browne
In a nutshell it is a group of very advanced technical/cave divers with
archeologists and other scientists exploring "blue" holes in the
Bahamas. These extend over 400 ' in depth. Extremely challenging (and
not for me).
hierophant
wrote:
> On 10-07-10 11:34 , hierophant wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 10, 9:56 am, Alan Browne<alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
> > wrote:
> >> On 10-07-10 7:35 , hierophant wrote:
>
> >>>http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/news/history-archaeo...
>
> >>> Can someone tell me why some of the divers wearing doubles have their
> >>> tanks so far apart on their body? It seems like the tanks are almost
> >>> to their sides.
>
> >> Cave diving. There is a good PBS video of a recent Bahamas expedition
> >> at the PBS site.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/cavedive/
>
> >> --
> >> gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.
>
> > Thank you. I was able to get the narration but not the video. Today
> > isn't my day it seems. Can you explain what the video shows?
>
> In a nutshell it is a group of very advanced technical/cave divers with
> archeologists and other scientists exploring "blue" holes in the
> Bahamas. These extend over 400 ' in depth. Extremely challenging (and
> not for me).
That kind of diving isn't for me either. I'd like to see the video
and I'll try again to view it because your description makes it sound
very interesting. Thanks again.
hierophant
> On 7/10/2010 1:11 PM, hierophant wrote:
>
>
>
> > Wow! Thanks for your reply. It sounds like you know a good deal
> > about cave diving. But your reply still seems illogical to me. I can
>
> Al knows A LOT about all sorts of diving. I have met him in person and
> dove off the same boat with him.
It's good to have friends.
> In addition to being a very knowledgeable person about diving, he is
> very congenial and quite the gentleman.
You sound like your trying to promote him for something. I'm just
thankful that he (and JRE and Alan) answered. I can be a gentleman
too but there are some people on this group that I don't care for and
I lose my manners with them. So you're a cave diver too? I have to
congradulate you all because that's just not the kind of diving that
I'd like to do. I think it takes alot of guts and being fearless to
do that and I'm not willing to try it. I don't like small spaces.
The cenotes that I dove were all right, not too confining. But I
wouldnt want to keep diving that because I prefer the life on a reef
or a wreck. But hey, that;s why there's vanila and chocalate. And
maybe one of these days before the oil spill kills everything, I'll
get to dive off the Florida shores and Keyes.
1hogrider
>
>
>> In addition to being a very knowledgeable person about diving, he is
>> very congenial and quite the gentleman.
>
> You sound like your trying to promote him for something. I'm just
Nope. Not trying to "promote" anyone. Just a comment on the type of
person Al is based on my meeting him.
> thankful that he (and JRE and Alan) answered. I can be a gentleman
> too but there are some people on this group that I don't care for and
> I lose my manners with them. So you're a cave diver too? I have to
Nope...I am not a cave diver. I have a cavern certification.
Al Wells
> Al knows A LOT about all sorts of diving. I have met him in person and
> dove off the same boat with him.
>
> In addition to being a very knowledgeable person about diving, he is
> very congenial and quite the gentleman.
Thanks for the kind words Andy. I've been out diving with quite a few of
the US regulars here, and have found all of them to be nice people whom I
would dive with again. People who sharply disagree with each other here
get together and have a great time diving and hanging out together.
1hogrider
Call it like I see it Al.
How's the new radio working out?
Greg Mossman
> > Thanks for the kind words Andy. I've been out diving with quite a few of
> > the US regulars here, and have found all of them to be nice people whom I
> > would dive with again. People who sharply disagree with each other here
> > get together and have a great time diving and hanging out together.
>
> Call it like I see it Al.
As one of the more provocative posters here, I'd have to "third"
that. Rec. scuba has had some amazing get-togethers in the past. I
missed out on the back-east reunions (Gilboa and the NY Seahorse
dives), but made sure to at least meet some of y'all at the still well-
attended Dive with Greg's that I was fortunate enough to attend (kudos
to that "Greg" guy whoever he is). It's a tough season for diving
nowadays with this endless recession and rec.scuba has gone to hell,
but maybe it's not too late for one last big dive to celebrate the
history and comraderie all these years have engendered. Anyone up
for a Rec Scuba Alumni Emeriti dive festival? I'll even submit to a
group hug with Curtis and Scott if it means decent participation.
Al Wells
> How's the new radio working out?
The Icom is working well; I use it every morning on the way to work. I'm
considering a HF rig, Art G has suggested one I haven't looked into yet.
I've heard that 10 meters is starting to open up - have you been there
lately?
1hogrider
ago and it made a world of difference. New RG8 for the HF beam and
LMR400 for the VHF and UHF beams. Working all over Europe and even into
Azerbaijan and Taiwan. Getting through some pretty tough pileups on 20.
10 is off and on. 20 is off and on. Saw some pretty interesting
propagation on 20 recently. Stations just a few hundred miles away
working stations in Europe...both S9+. 10 gas been kinda short lately
when it has opened up.
Not sure what you are interested in for HF. Desktop or compact mobile?
I have an IC756ProII at the house and an IC7000 I can use in the car or
portable or as backup. Since Icom came out with the 7800 series, the
Pro III's are hitting the used market and they are generally excellent
rigs.
Al Wells
> Not sure what you are interested in for HF. Desktop or compact mobile?
> I have an IC756ProII at the house and an IC7000 I can use in the car or
> portable or as backup. Since Icom came out with the 7800 series, the
> Pro III's are hitting the used market and they are generally excellent
> rigs.
I'm not really sure yet, and I'l be way busy with other things until
winter. Art G recommended that I look the Elecraft K3, and it looks
interesting, but I'll also look at everything else.
mike gray
And on the positive side, sidemounts absolutely infuriate DIR!
esg
hierophant
A cavern cert is one step ahead of me. I just can't bring myself to
dive in that environment. I guess it's my clostrophobia. So I
respect those like you who can do that. I appreciate your answers and
trying to explain to me.
hierophant
>
> - Show quoted text -
Who is DIR?
El Stroko Guapo
Nobody, any more.
But they were a wild and crazy bunch back in the old days!
esg
hierophant
Ok. I'll bite. So you were one of them?
El Stroko Guapo
>>
>>>>And on the positive side, sidemounts absolutely infuriate DIR!
>>
>>>>esg- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>>Who is DIR?
>>
>>Nobody, any more.
>>
>>But they were a wild and crazy bunch back in the old days!
>>
>>esg- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
I thought you were kidding.
DIR is an acronym for "Doing It Right", a religious order following
misguided gurus from the WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project).
WKPP is a north Florida aquifer diving group with roots back to the mid
1980s, when cave diving was still rather disorganized and deadly. Two
early members of the group, Gavin and Main, espoused the idea that
consistency of equipment configuration and dive procedure could reduce
confusion and improve safety. This concept was codified after the death
of Bill McFaden in Little Dismal Sink (1988) and became known as
"Hogarthian" diving.
In 1994 George Irvine, the "Abraham" of DIR, became Director of WKPP.
About this time there was a major turnover in the WKPP dive roster. It's
also about this time that the Hogarthian concept began morphing into
DIR, consistency of configuration and dive procedure because George said so.
In 1998 GUE (Global Underwater Explorers) was formed to be the
tabernacle of DIR, and is still offering classes for the easily duped.
There's no question that Irvine was an accomplished exploration diver
and equipment designer. There's also no question that he was a
megalomaniacal leader that attracted a variety of very vocal sheep
bleating the "because George said so" line.
Irvine never really spent time on this newsgroup, but his sheep
descended in large, loud, misinformed herds. The DIR way is attractive:
one never asks “why” or “is there a better way” or even “is there
another way”. The follower accepts the way in its entirety and without
question, and practices the way regardless of surroundings or circumstnces.
On this newsgroup, at the time, there were a number of bulls with
experience and smarts and the willingness to question the status quo.
DIR became their red flag. The ng really lit up every time the bleating
started!
If you are able, do a search for these old DIR threads, they are
immensely entertaining.
Although I agree with Hogarthian principles, I never followed the DIR path.
hierophant
> >>>>And on the positive side, sidemounts absolutely infuriate DIR!
>
> >>>>esg- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>>- Show quoted text -
>
> >>>Who is DIR?
>
> >>Nobody, any more.
>
> >>But they were a wild and crazy bunch back in the old days!
>
> >>esg- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > Ok. I'll bite. So you were one of them?,
>
> I thought you were kidding.
Why would I?
> DIR is an acronym for "Doing It Right", a religious order following
> misguided gurus from the WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project).
>
> WKPP is a north Florida aquifer diving group with roots back to the mid
> 1980s, when cave diving was still rather disorganized and deadly. Two
> early members of the group, Gavin and Main, espoused the idea that
> consistency of equipment configuration and dive procedure could reduce
> confusion and improve safety. This concept was codified after the death
> of Bill McFaden in Little Dismal Sink (1988) and became known as
> "Hogarthian" diving.
Ok, you're another cave diver. This NG seems full of them. I
explained before that kind of diving isn't for me. I think I recall
hearing about divers going into caves in Fla and mapping out the caves
and that some divers died but I didn't pay much attention to the type
of diving or any of that. I can dive wrecks if I can see the way
out. I've been in cenotes but again, I can see the way out. The
thought of being in a cave above water makes me nervous but I've been
in one that had large caverns so I was ok. The idea of diving inside
a cave horrifies me.
> In 1994 George Irvine, the "Abraham" of DIR, became Director of WKPP.
> About this time there was a major turnover in the WKPP dive roster. It's
> also about this time that the Hogarthian concept began morphing into
> DIR, consistency of configuration and dive procedure because George said so.
And George's approach was different from the Gavin and Main way of
doing things? Gavin and Main started the deal and George changed it?
> In 1998 GUE (Global Underwater Explorers) was formed to be the
> tabernacle of DIR, and is still offering classes for the easily duped.
Never heard of them.
> There's no question that Irvine was an accomplished exploration diver
> and equipment designer. There's also no question that he was a
> megalomaniacal leader that attracted a variety of very vocal sheep
> bleating the "because George said so" line.
Oh ok. Because George said so.
> Irvine never really spent time on this newsgroup, but his sheep
> descended in large, loud, misinformed herds. The DIR way is attractive:
> one never asks “why” or “is there a better way” or even “is there
> another way”. The follower accepts the way in its entirety and without
> question, and practices the way regardless of surroundings or circumstnces.
Oh ok. Do they all drink poisin Kool-Aid if George says so?
> On this newsgroup, at the time, there were a number of bulls with
> experience and smarts and the willingness to question the status quo.
> DIR became their red flag. The ng really lit up every time the bleating
> started!
I think it sounds like a fight fest.
> If you are able, do a search for these old DIR threads, they are
> immensely entertaining.
There are suddenly tons of posts here with people arguing about and
with Scott Koplin, who I have seen here; and Steve Kramer, no clue who
he is. I've read some of it but I can't follow it. (What's going on
with this?) I don't like Koplin so whatever they sling at him is fine
with me. If I searched the DIR threads, I wouldn't even know what the
heck was being talked about because I don't cave dive. It's useless
for me, I think.
> Although I agree with Hogarthian principles, I never followed the DIR path.
I can't judge you for Hogarthian or DIR. But I can thank you for
taking the time to explain to me. Or should I say, I appreciate that
you "DIR" in explanation. :-)
-hh
>
> > >>>>And on the positive side, sidemounts absolutely infuriate DIR!
>
> > >>>>esg- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >>>>- Show quoted text -
>
> > >>>Who is DIR?
>
> > >>Nobody, any more.
>
> > >>But they were a wild and crazy bunch back in the old days!
>
> > >>esg- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > > Ok. I'll bite. So you were one of them?,
>
> > I thought you were kidding.
>
> Why would I?
In a nutshell, you would have to know the history. Suffice to say
that loudmouthed egocentrics don't take particularly kindly to their
balloons being popped.
> > DIR is an acronym for "Doing It Right", a religious order following
> > misguided gurus from the WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project).
>
> > WKPP is a north Florida aquifer diving group with roots back to the mid
> > 1980s, when cave diving was still rather disorganized and deadly. Two
> > early members of the group, Gavin and Main, espoused the idea that
> > consistency of equipment configuration and dive procedure could reduce
> > confusion and improve safety. This concept was codified after the death
> > of Bill McFaden in Little Dismal Sink (1988) and became known as
> > "Hogarthian" diving.
>
> Ok, you're another cave diver. This NG seems full of them.
Cave diving is merely another discipline where the objective risks are
noteworthy, and thus, the types and degrees of preparation are
tailored. However, what is a "Good Idea" in one environment is not
necessarily always a Good Idea in all possible environments, so this
is a potential slippery slope of fallacies which can lead to ...
misunderstandings.
> > In 1994 George Irvine, the "Abraham" of DIR, became Director of WKPP.
> > About this time there was a major turnover in the WKPP dive roster. It's
> > also about this time that the Hogarthian concept began morphing into
> > DIR, consistency of configuration and dive procedure because George said so.
>
> And George's approach was different from the Gavin and Main way of
> doing things? Gavin and Main started the deal and George changed it?
Perhaps this old post sheds some light:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.scuba/msg/5623de9bfe83c17d>
Suffice to say that George (aka "GIII") added a significant amount of
discipline and regimentation to the WKPP project, which did allow them
to make some accomplishments there.
> > In 1998 GUE (Global Underwater Explorers) was formed to be the
> > tabernacle of DIR, and is still offering classes for the easily duped.
>
> Never heard of them.
Indeed. Simplistically, GUE was the DIR/WKPP's attempt to grow.
> > There's no question that Irvine was an accomplished exploration diver
> > and equipment designer. There's also no question that he was a
> > megalomaniacal leader that attracted a variety of very vocal sheep
> > bleating the "because George said so" line.
>
> Oh ok. Because George said so.
More so because George (aka "GIII"), by adding a significant amount of
discipline and regimentation to the WKPP project, did allow them to
make some accomplishments there.
Unfortunately, there's always going to be some people who try to
associate themselves with "winners", and thus unnecessarily create
conflict by trying to claim that all others are thus, "losers".
> > Irvine never really spent time on this newsgroup, but his sheep
> > descended in large, loud, misinformed herds. The DIR way is attractive:
> > one never asks “why” or “is there a better way” or even “is there
> > another way”. The follower accepts the way in its entirety and without
> > question, and practices the way regardless of surroundings or circumstnces.
>
> Oh ok. Do they all drink poisin Kool-Aid if George says so?
Get it right: its "King George". Retrospectively, yes this all does
sound silly. However, the reality was ...and is... that high risk
ventures do require a lot of discipline and regimentation in order to
be successful, and exploration-class cave diving is no exception. The
dilemma was that cave diving as an activity has more traditionally
been performed in very small (2-3 person) groups and as such, the
structures didn't really exist for 30+ person teams, so while very
small groups could be very good within ("intra-"), the supportability
between teams ("inter-") was a challenge.
When you look into the major accomplishments of the WKPP, you find
that despite the rhetoric for homogeneity, the lead teams at the 'Tip
of the Spear' were invariably always from the very same very small
subgroup, which suggests that this issue was never really fully
resolved.
> > On this newsgroup, at the time, there were a number of bulls with
> > experience and smarts and the willingness to question the status quo.
> > DIR became their red flag. The ng really lit up every time the bleating
> > started!
>
> I think it sounds like a fight fest.
>
> > If you are able, do a search for these old DIR threads, they are
> > immensely entertaining.
Using "GIII" as a keyword will help to pull up some of these.
> There are suddenly tons of posts here with people arguing about and
> with Scott Koplin, who I have seen here; and Steve Kramer, no clue who
> he is. I've read some of it but I can't follow it. (What's going on
> with this?)
Its useless spillover of trolls from mostly a <soc.culture.thai>
group, which comes down to personality disorders involving a lack of
self-esteem and anything better to do with their life. Best ignored.
> > Although I agree with Hogarthian principles, I never followed the DIR path.
>
> I can't judge you for Hogarthian or DIR. But I can thank you for
> taking the time to explain to me. Or should I say, I appreciate that
> you "DIR" in explanation. :-)
While DIR did help in highlighting Hogarthian principles to a broader
segment of the dive community, they unfortunately did so through the
creation of unnecessary conflict. What you'll also find in your
readings are extensive dialogs regarding 'strokes'.
In a nutshell, anyone that wasn't good enough to be in full
conformance with everything DIR religion wasn't labelled "Not Good
Enough for DIR", but was instead labelled as "A Danger to Himself and
Everyone in the World", which was both technically incorrect as well
as purposefully inflammatory. This is what Mike is alluding to with
his comment about smart bulls and red flags: suffice to say that a
lot of DIR advocates found themselves to be a matador ... who promptly
got fatally gored by what they had been told by the likes of GIII were
only dumb old bulls.
-hh
hierophant
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for taking the time to explain a bit more about DIr.
Interesting. I guess you had to be there at the time. So let me ask
you this, what's all this posting between Scott Koplin and Steve
Kramer and others? It's taken over this NG.
Dan Bracuk
:Thanks for taking the time to explain a bit more about DIr.
:Interesting. I guess you had to be there at the time. So let me ask
:you this, what's all this posting between Scott Koplin and Steve
:Kramer and others? It's taken over this NG.
Steve Kramer used to be on this ng. Some of the other regulars,
including Scott, didn't like him. I thought he was ok.
Steve also posted to other newsgroups. Apparently, some of the
regulars in at least one of them also dislike him. In fact, they
dislike him so much they are posting to any ng to which they think
Steve has ever belonged. That includes us.
You'll notice that all the Steve Kramer stuff is posted to more than
one ng.
hierophant
> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:24:38 -0700 (PDT), hierophant :
> :Thanks for taking the time to explain a bit more about DIr.
> :Interesting. I guess you had to be there at the time. So let me ask
> :you this, what's all this posting between Scott Koplin and Steve
> :Kramer and others? It's taken over this NG.
>
> Steve Kramer used to be on this ng. Some of the other regulars,
> including Scott, didn't like him. I thought he was ok.
Alright.
> Steve also posted to other newsgroups. Apparently, some of the
> regulars in at least one of them also dislike him. In fact, they
> dislike him so much they are posting to any ng to which they think
> Steve has ever belonged. That includes us.
Alright.
> You'll notice that all the Steve Kramer stuff is posted to more than
> one ng.
I see that it's posted to more than one NG, yes. I tried to liven it
up here by posting some things about Chelsea and the undersea river
and the ship found intact. No one talked.
Well, I'm getting ready to go on vacation (golf, not scuba) so I won't
be here for a while. I enjoy people like you, Greg, Mike Gray, El
Stroko, Alan, Al Wells, hogrider, etc. There's alot of nice people
here, like yourself, who are very informative. But this thing with
Scott and Steve is out of control. I thought the biggest idiot on
this group was Dillon Pyron who claimed his father was a war hero but
I discovered he was a liar about that and told him so. And I thought
the second biggest idiot was Scott. Popeye was on my dislike list
too. Now, apparently, there are many people here who don't like
Scott. HA. But they are taking over the group!
This take-over of the NG with posts about Scott and Steve isn't for
me. I'll catch you in a few weeks or a month or so and we'll see
whats up then. In the interim, have some good dives and take care.
Curtis
that loudmouthed egocentrics don't take particularly kindly to their
balloons being popped.
Very true.
Amazing thing is who can become considered as such.
Greg Mossman
So how's that balloon going for you?
Me, I'm too lazy/busy to get out and do some local dives even though
I'm an hour away from the mighty Pacific. Last dives were Wakatobi in
May and I might be getting desperate enough to dive the local stuff
again very soon.
Dillon Pyron
>
>>>
>>>>>And on the positive side, sidemounts absolutely infuriate DIR!
>>>
>>>>>esg- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>>Who is DIR?
>>>
>>>Nobody, any more.
>>>
>>>But they were a wild and crazy bunch back in the old days!
>>>
>>>esg- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>> Ok. I'll bite. So you were one of them?,
>
>I thought you were kidding.
>
>DIR is an acronym for "Doing It Right", a religious order following
>misguided gurus from the WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project).
>
>WKPP is a north Florida aquifer diving group with roots back to the mid
>1980s, when cave diving was still rather disorganized and deadly. Two
>early members of the group, Gavin and Main,
Bill? If so, did they ever figure out what happened. I still have
his (now unusable) software for simulating an Aladin Pro and he taught
me how to understand the good doctor's theories.
--
- dillon I am not invalid
What do you call a guy with the guts of ten men?
Jeffery
Dillon Pyron
Not since I kf'd anything with "Kramer" in the subject.
El Stroko Guapo
On 8/18/2010 6:46 PM, Dillon Pyron wrote:
> [Default] Thus spake El Stroko Guapo<omg...@earthlink.net>:
>
> Bill? If so, did they ever figure out what happened. I still have
> his (now unusable) software for simulating an Aladin Pro and he taught
> me how to understand the good doctor's theories.
>
I heard the usual stories from the usual unreliable sources, but I don't
remember even those. It seems I remember it was at dive's end, 50' from
exit. Ask Al Wells, he has far more working neurons than I do.
esg